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View Full Version : Big running back needed?



cva14
08-07-2012, 09:39 PM
Wilson may be more of a Megett change of pace back as a rookie sort of like Westbrook and McCoy were before becoming a three down back. Bradshaw has trouble playing 16 games. So do you think the Giants might be looking for a big back on the waiver wire to get us through this season and whom do you think that might be? Or will they stay with frequently injured Ware or the untried Scott?

jomo
08-07-2012, 09:50 PM
Wilson may be more of a Megett change of pace back as a rookie sort of like Westbrook and McCoy were before becoming a three down back. Bradshaw has trouble playing 16 games. So do you think the Giants might be looking for a big back on the waiver wire to get us through this season and whom do you think that might be? Or will they stay with frequently injured Ware or the untried Scott?They don't need a big back, they need a back. Just like we don't need a tall receiver.
I do think we are one quality, experienced back short right now unless Wilson shows he's ready quickly and Scott shows he's ready for prime time. That is a lot to ask for. It is possible,but still alot to ask.

Redeyejedi
08-07-2012, 09:59 PM
Brandon Jacobs was huge and he barely ever got the yard when we needed it

FranklinsTower
08-07-2012, 10:19 PM
They don't need a big back, they need a back. Just like we don't need a tall receiver. I do think we are one quality, experienced back short right now unless Wilson shows he's ready quickly and Scott shows he's ready for prime time. That is a lot to ask for. It is possible,but still alot to ask.I couldn't agree more......

Cool Papa B.
08-07-2012, 10:27 PM
I don't think they need to get a big RB. But if there is one pos. that concerns me about this team is RB. They are one Ahmad Bradshaw injury away from becoming a huge whole in the offense. Da'rel Scott still has a lot to prove; Ware hasn't proven himself to be a 20-30 carry/game back; Dave Wilson is good (possibly great), but is a rookie. We don't know how well and quick he will adjust to the NFL.

I'd feel a lot more comfortable if another RB who could step in just in case someone goes down.

nygmen90
08-07-2012, 10:35 PM
Brandon Jacobs was huge and he barely ever got the yard when we needed it

i agree with you

rainierjef
08-07-2012, 10:36 PM
Brandon Jacobs was huge and he barely ever got the yard when we needed it
As a former RB to be fair there is limited things you can do when
A. you never really had intial burst speed to begin with &
B. your O-Line collapsed infront of you, almost all the time.
i think this was jacobs case, that oline never opened up a hole long enough for him to go rumbling through it so he tried often to bouce it outside and that never worked. just a side note i remembered when i used to play we had a guy Keron Nelson 5'11 like 230 solid big kid Running back i was splitting time with him, i was the smaller speed back at 5'7 185. I remember at a meeting some of the O-Line were complainig of the collateral damage they were taking in the back when he use to plow through the line pushing whoever over lol. i sure its the same case in the pro's i wonder if that affected Jacob's North/South style mentality or was it just that the Oline were not keeping those limited gaps open.

i dont think its all jacobs fault :)

jpmetrick
08-07-2012, 10:53 PM
Brandon Jacobs was huge and he barely ever got the yard when we needed it

im not the only who saw this!
though i really dont feel we need another back. i think they wont try to run it up the middle knowing baas cant get the push needed. from what ive read, they are working hard on the run game in camp, so i have to believe itll be there and well go back to a run first team, but throw more then we used to

Neverend
08-07-2012, 10:55 PM
As a former RB to be fair there is limited things you can do when
A. you never really had intial burst speed to begin with &
B. your O-Line collapsed infront of you, almost all the time.
i think this was jacobs case, that oline never opened up a hole long enough for him to go rumbling through it so he tried often to bouce it outside and that never worked. just a side note i remembered when i used to play we had a guy Keron Nelson 5'11 like 230 solid big kid Running back i was splitting time with him, i was the smaller speed back at 5'7 185. I remember at a meeting some of the O-Line were complainig of the collateral damage they were taking in the back when he use to plow through the line pushing whoever over lol. i sure its the same case in the pro's i wonder if that affected Jacob's North/South style mentality or was it just that the Oline were not keeping those limited gaps open.

i dont think its all jacobs fault :)

His lack of great initial burst is a factor, but also his pad level. Sometimes he'd run too tall and upright in short yardage situations isntead of lowering his pads with a good forward lean.

jomo
08-07-2012, 10:55 PM
When teams get down to final cuts, I think the Giants will be able to find an upgrade over Ware for sure.

Buddy333
08-07-2012, 10:55 PM
There is a reason why RB's are not 6'4. I am a fan of Jacobs and he will always be a Giant in my mind. Go low on him and he goes down easier than Bradshaw.

YATittle1962
08-07-2012, 10:56 PM
big backs are slow to accelerate which equals o line needing to hold their blocks longer

smaller backs generally have a quicker acceleration ...... hitting holes as they open ....an o linemans dream

a smaller back also needs less of a hole to hit

you can keep your big backs

Buddy333
08-07-2012, 10:57 PM
I think Ware stays because he knows the team and the team knows him. If they did replace him they could possibly do it with Martinek. He has decent speed, blocks very well, and can catch out of the backfield.

Carter.525
08-07-2012, 11:05 PM
I think the Bradshaw / Wilson combo will be good one.

Benson is still an option.?

GameTime
08-07-2012, 11:08 PM
between Ware, Brown, Wilson, and whom ever else they will come up with a very good roation IMO.
Of Couse AB being the #1.

I also see Hynoski maybe taking a few ket carries during the game. I really feel he will be come a truely complete FB for the Giants.

Carter.525
08-07-2012, 11:11 PM
dont forget about Jersey Joe Martinek.. Hes from the same town as me..

giantsfan420
08-08-2012, 12:11 AM
As a former RB to be fair there is limited things you can do when
A. you never really had intial burst speed to begin with &
B. your O-Line collapsed infront of you, almost all the time.
i think this was jacobs case, that oline never opened up a hole long enough for him to go rumbling through it so he tried often to bouce it outside and that never worked. just a side note i remembered when i used to play we had a guy Keron Nelson 5'11 like 230 solid big kid Running back i was splitting time with him, i was the smaller speed back at 5'7 185. I remember at a meeting some of the O-Line were complainig of the collateral damage they were taking in the back when he use to plow through the line pushing whoever over lol. i sure its the same case in the pro's i wonder if that affected Jacob's North/South style mentality or was it just that the Oline were not keeping those limited gaps open.

i dont think its all jacobs fault :)
actually, and i forget where i read this, but there was something along the lines of jacobs starting out as a giant, and the coaches telling both BJ and the OL that if they dont open up a hole for Jacobs to plow into the back of the OL and fall forward or some variation of that...

and about the "big back", TC and KG said that they loved that dynamic BJ gave us with his size and power, and that they liked matching 44 with 27 bc of the differences. but at this point with our OL, i think we need elusive rb's that can create little seams for themselves. BJ was DANGEROUS when the OL could open up nice holes, they couldnt, and BJ wasnt himself. i'd assume that would follow suit for another big back.

a name that does interest me tho is cedric benson. is he still out there> bet we could get hims uper cheap and he still has some gas in the tank, but i'd be more than fine staying as is...

Slyde
08-08-2012, 01:12 AM
We are a passing team now, we evolved into it for a few years. Especially last year. Ahmad and whoever can play to let AB rest, that's all we need. Although, if Wilson is up to the hype, we might see a huge 3 headed monster once again in the backfield.

rainierjef
08-08-2012, 02:53 AM
big backs are slow to accelerate which equals o line needing to hold their blocks longer

smaller backs generally have a quicker acceleration ...... hitting holes as they open ....an o linemans dream

a smaller back also needs less of a hole to hit

you can keep your big backs

exactly....+1

myles2424
08-08-2012, 03:21 AM
I don't think they need to get a big RB. But if there is one pos. that concerns me about this team is RB. They are one Ahmad Bradshaw injury away from becoming a huge whole in the offense. Da'rel Scott still has a lot to prove; Ware hasn't proven himself to be a 20-30 carry/game back; Dave Wilson is good (possibly great), but is a rookie. We don't know how well and quick he will adjust to the NFL.

I'd feel a lot more comfortable if another RB who could step in just in case someone goes down.
The way I see it is, our running game/Oline can't be much worse than they were last year & last year seemed to work out just fine for us.....
I see things improving in that area & looking back on it like when everyone thought we needed to trade for Braylon Edwards because our WRs are soo terrible....

BlueSanta
08-08-2012, 04:58 AM
B Jacobs was the biggest back in the league, and he was more fragile than Ahmad. He also ran with less power than Ahmad(towards the end of his time here.)

Captain Chaos
08-08-2012, 05:59 AM
They don't need a big back, they need a back. Just like we don't need a tall receiver.
I do think we are one quality, experienced back short right now unless Wilson shows he's ready quickly and Scott shows he's ready for prime time. That is a lot to ask for. It is possible,but still alot to ask.

Jomo, your Barden stuff is old!!!!

We need someone to step up and can be effective in short yardage play, Bradshaw runs tough and could be that guy.

fansince69
08-08-2012, 08:37 AM
big backs are slow to accelerate which equals o line needing to hold their blocks longer

smaller backs generally have a quicker acceleration ...... hitting holes as they open ....an o linemans dream

a smaller back also needs less of a hole to hit

you can keep your big backs

A smaller back also tends to get lost from the defense behind his big offensive linemen....Joe Morris comes to mind.....A short but very powerful back

BigBlue1971
08-08-2012, 09:37 AM
between Ware, Brown, Wilson, and whom ever else they will come up with a very good roation IMO.
Of Couse AB being the #1.

I also see Hynoski maybe taking a few ket carries during the game. I really feel he will be come a truely complete FB for the Giants.


i agree Hynoski could open some eyes with his play this season!

Gilbride must get him some carries.....and catches.

giantsfan420
08-08-2012, 09:38 AM
but there still are advantages to having a rb like BJ...size allows him to help in pass protection, when he trucks a defender it pumps everyone up, i'm sure theres plenty more...its just too early. brain is on energy save mode lol

GameTime
08-08-2012, 10:38 AM
Guys.... a good running back is a good running back .....period.
The Giants need good running backs.........

JesseJames
08-08-2012, 11:54 AM
no matter who the RB is or how big he is if the hole isn't there when he reaches the LOS he isn't going anywhere and thats pretty much what happened to our running game last year..The Giants have always been a team that runs the ball and last year we were last in the league running the football and in my opinion it comes down to blocking and we stink at run blocking and if that doesn't improve then neither will the run game no matter who the back is...

jakegibbs
08-08-2012, 12:19 PM
Wilson may be more of a Megett change of pace back as a rookie sort of like Westbrook and McCoy were before becoming a three down back. Bradshaw has trouble playing 16 games. So do you think the Giants might be looking for a big back on the waiver wire to get us through this season and whom do you think that might be? Or will they stay with frequently injured Ware or the untried Scott?

It's a pass 1st league now. Big backs are slowly dieing out like the dinasoars. Time to air it out & run sweeps, screens & draws. No more are the days of the big back & 3yds in a cloud of dust.

YATittle1962
08-08-2012, 07:30 PM
A smaller back also tends to get lost from the defense behind his big offensive linemen....Joe Morris comes to mind.....A short but very powerful back

absolutely great added point

MJD ....same deal

rainierjef
08-08-2012, 07:52 PM
Personally i think the giants needed a better O-Line before a new RB, but thats just what i see. a Big back is great in pass protection, with a solid Oline keeping gaps open its hard for defenders to plant and lay a hit for a loss or stop on a big back that has the phyicality of jacobs in his prime. the initial force impact ususally throws guys back as momentum always wins in that scenario, i think the Oline didn't do much to help Jacobs case last year, Baas as a center is not ideal for a power running game hes more for a finesse apporach cause he can pull fast enough to seal the edge. i miss Ohara and suebert!

NorwoodBlue
08-08-2012, 08:38 PM
Personally i think the giants needed a better O-Line before a new RB, but thats just what i see. a Big back is great in pass protection, with a solid Oline keeping gaps open its hard for defenders to plant and lay a hit for a loss or stop on a big back that has the phyicality of jacobs in his prime. the initial force impact ususally throws guys back as momentum always wins in that scenario, i think the Oline didn't do much to help Jacobs case last year, Baas as a center is not ideal for a power running game hes more for a finesse apporach cause he can pull fast enough to seal the edge. i miss Ohara and suebert!

Need I remind y'all that the O-line and Bradshaw produced 100+ yds /game during the playoffs, against the toughest opposition they faced. The team's rushing attack sucked when Bradshaw was out and it was the Jacobs/Ware show. Brandon Jacobs played one good game that I remember all year. That game he came in pumped and ran hard. Most other games he ran tenatively, and if somebody got to his legs, he was done. I can't count the number of times he got his legs wrapped up behind the line and just fell down. I want to see somebody beat out Ware, he absolutley sucks. If we go into the season with Bradshaw/Wilson, and Ware is their back-up, we're screwed if either Bradshaw or Wilson gets hurt. In my opinion Ware should have been cut two years ago, and somebody else should have gotten some reps. The best defense guys come up with for keeping Ware around is that he knows the system, that's pathetic.

And those guys who say Hynoski is the answer, are dreaming in the Gilbride offense. I believe the last time a full back carried the ball for the Giants was something like 2008 or 2009. I believe he could do it; but I don't believe Gildbride will ever let him try.

Bottom line is the running back situation scares me, and I think we're two deep at running back right now. Two deep probably isn't enough with Bradshaw's injury history, and the demands on running backs these days. And that's assuming that Wilson is the real deal and adapts quickly to the NFL game. No guarantees there either.

gmen0820
08-08-2012, 09:27 PM
I think RB might be one of the most misunderstood positions in the entire NFL. We don't need just a big back, we need a big back that is versatile, and flexible for us. It isn't a matter of "can this guy run, and protect Eli", it's a matter of how we can add a big physical guy to give us not a mental advantage, but a tactical advantage.

Why was Brandon Jacobs so effective for us a couple years ago? Sure he was big, and powerful, but the biggest key was that we could deploy Jacobs (and whoever else was his running mate, be it Bradshaw/Ward etc.) in any game situation/personnel package/down&distance...so on and so forth. People always chalk it up to having to expend energy on Jacobs and then needing it to catch a quicker back, but it can't be that simple. Nothing is that simple.

Jacobs in his prime could run east/west/north/south, play on third down, catch a pass, block for Eli. Coincidence, Bradshaw/Ward/Ware can/could, too. Defenses are not tipped off when Bradshaw is back there on 2nd-and-4 with 21 personnel. Defenses aren't tipped off when Jacobs was in there on 3rd-and-6 with 11 personnel.

Why would we sign a waiver wire back just for size, it does us no good if he doesn't offer us something special that we don't already have? What we need are two RBs that aren't compromised by any game situations, but have special traits to them. We currently have that IF Wilson can develop his third down game. Wilson is a home run threat, Bradshaw is extremely physical coming downhill, as well as shifty and elusive. Kicker: Wilson is also physical coming down hill.

There is no glut of big backs in the league that can give us what we had with Jacobs a couple years ago, that's why Jacobs was so unique. Jacobs clearly declined, it came with age, and poor line play. Jacobs wasn't able to catch the corner with the sharpness of 2007-2009. In response, opposing defenses just contained the A, B, and C gaps to force Jacobs to stop-and-start. Well, that's how you stop him, especially the 29 year old version.

Jacobs lost cut back ability, acceleration, and power with age. He became a one dimensional back, and it limited us in terms of running efficiency, and scheme versatility. There should be no interest in forcing the issue of not having a "big back".

SLUNK(three)AM
08-08-2012, 10:41 PM
In my opinion I felt that Brandon Jacobs had lost a few steps - but the problem with our running game stems from the inefficiency of our offensive line last year. Bradshaw didn't have a good year either. I'll admit there were some bright spots here and there but all in all the improvement has got to come from the offensive line if we want to start believing in our running game. Perhaps some fans are confused because our O-Line seemed to be pretty good protecting the passer but always seemed like it couldn't get any push nor open many holes on the opposing line.

gmen0820
08-08-2012, 11:13 PM
In my opinion I felt that Brandon Jacobs had lost a few steps - but the problem with our running game stems from the inefficiency of our offensive line last year. Bradshaw didn't have a good year either. I'll admit there were some bright spots here and there but all in all the improvement has got to come from the offensive line if we want to start believing in our running game. Perhaps some fans are confused because our O-Line seemed to be pretty good protecting the passer but always seemed like it couldn't get any push nor open many holes on the opposing line.Bradshaw wasn't healthy last year, either.

Our RBs were pretty average/mediocre last year. Their position group was average/mediocre -- that -- is the stem of the problem.

JSpin
08-09-2012, 10:07 AM
In 2009, a 191lb RB carried the ball 358 times for 2006 yards. Why would we need a big back again?