PDA

View Full Version : Giants looking for answers at tight end



RoanokeFan
08-08-2012, 08:02 PM
LINK (http://insidefootball.com/blog/archives/4880)

Excerpt: "Veteran tight ends coach Mike Pope has seen quite a bit over the course of his long NFL coaching career. But this year might be a first for the 30-year coaching veteran who entered camp with several new faces joining his meeting room.
“We do have more new faces now then maybe we ever have,” said Pope, whose holdovers from last year include Bear Pascoe and Christian Hopkins, the latter of whom was on the team’s practice squad last year.

“It’s very rare to lose two players in one game at the end of the season like we did, so we’ve been trying very hard to replace those guys with athletes and I think we’ve been able to do that.” Read more...

CDN_G-FAN
08-08-2012, 08:38 PM
Bugging me that Bennett seems to be way behind Bear on the depth chart.

Redeyejedi
08-08-2012, 09:24 PM
The words he used "Try to replace guys with Athletes" is that a shot at Reese or the players or both

Carter.525
08-08-2012, 09:26 PM
Bennett is a crazy athlete.. Hopefully Eli can make him a weapon

Bennett - Bear - Robinson

dave56dj
08-08-2012, 09:28 PM
Well there are preseason games to be played but at this point Robinson looks like the true definition of a long term project. Black Unicorn is absolutely jacked but it remains to be seen if he can pick up the offense. If so you would think he'd be physically superior to bear - but bear has experience and knows the O.

jpmetrick
08-08-2012, 10:53 PM
i bet bear will look better come this weekend, but bennet will eventually come into his own in this offense. im rooting for him, he is hilarous and id love to hear funny qoutes from him for another decade lol.

davepc
08-08-2012, 10:57 PM
The words he used "Try to replace guys with Athletes" is that a shot at Reese or the players or both

Wow read into things much?

penguinfarmer
08-08-2012, 11:07 PM
I've been waiting for the day they really inject the position with some athleticism and talent. Seeing that they've extracted some respectable production from late rounders and UDFAs, the notion of them not valuing the TE position is rather farce as an argument. Hopefully, Robinson can be that athletic in-line guy. I know nothing about him.

Carter.525
08-09-2012, 01:35 AM
I like that these guys are good blockers.. the O-line is going to need some help this year

GMENAGAIN
08-09-2012, 08:13 AM
i bet bear will look better come this weekend, but bennet will eventually come into his own in this offense. im rooting for him, he is hilarous and id love to hear funny qoutes from him for another decade lol.

The funny quotes are only funny if he produces. If he doesn't produce, his funny quotes won't be so funny.

Redeyejedi
08-09-2012, 08:36 AM
I guess but the choice of words is interesting. Giants have better athletes then Football players at TE.

bigjeep
08-09-2012, 08:40 AM
The funny quotes are only funny if he produces. If he doesn't produce, his funny quotes won't be so funny.


Truer words were never spoken!

sg92
08-09-2012, 10:34 AM
I was really hoping that Bennett could step in and be a force this year, at least in the running game. This article is not very encouraging. It not-so-subtly says that Bennett doesn't know the offense, and Robinson is a project for sure. I'll be very disappointed if Bennett can't earn top spot on the depth chart....

GMENAGAIN
08-09-2012, 10:37 AM
Bugging me that Bennett seems to be way behind Bear on the depth chart.
Me too . . . . .

JesseJames
08-09-2012, 12:10 PM
we should have drafted Coby Fleener and we wouldn't be worrying about the TE position, at least he'd be a force in the passing game and he could learn to block just like everybody else does over time and we'd have our TE for years to come, oh well, maybe next time....

PierrePaul
08-09-2012, 12:19 PM
I think David Wilson ends up helping the Giants more than a pass catching tight end. Reese knows what he's doing.

rainierjef
08-09-2012, 01:40 PM
Sigh* whatever

rainierjef
08-09-2012, 03:12 PM
I think David Wilson ends up helping the Giants more than a pass catching tight end. Reese knows what he's doing.
im sorry but you are wrong

RB is nt greater than a TE. they are equally able to help this team in many ways.

giantsfan420
08-09-2012, 05:04 PM
i see what ur point is, but dont u think a rb who gets the ball 20 some odd times, and whose responsible for pass protection another 10 odd some times can have a bigger impact on a game more commonly then a te? granted a te could have like 6 receptions and be used a lot in the run game, but i think at least that the added touches the rb has over the te puts more weight on the rb position.

although it also depends on who the rb is and who the te is. but in our case, i too think wilson can end up helping more. but at the same time, bennett could end up helping more than a rookie number 2 rb...depends on how much wilson is used. i dont think its fair to say at all that he's wrong, it certainy could end up being the case...

Carter.525
08-09-2012, 05:08 PM
we should have drafted Coby Fleener and we wouldn't be worrying about the TE position, at least he'd be a force in the passing game and he could learn to block just like everybody else does over time and we'd have our TE for years to come, oh well, maybe next time....

with Pope coaching up Adrien Robinson he could be good reciever like Fleener, and a much better blocker.

ALLnygIN
08-09-2012, 05:18 PM
we should have drafted Coby Fleener and we wouldn't be worrying about the TE position, at least he'd be a force in the passing game and he could learn to block just like everybody else does over time and we'd have our TE for years to come, oh well, maybe next time....

Although, I would not have been disappointed if we drafted him. I still think Wilson was the better pick, now I could end up eating crow,but if Wilson can adjust to the NFL, learn to protect the ball and Eli I think we're looking at a much better pick on production and play making ability. Also, with Bradshaw has bad ankles it would've been a horrible decission not to address the RB position in the draft. Of course you can argue this buy saying we could have picked up someone like pead or maybe took a chance to see if wilson would've dropped but, I think the giants were smart in taking Wilson over coby. We shall see. I also think we won't be nearly as bad off at the TE position as some would expect.

FlyingTruck
08-09-2012, 05:18 PM
When will you guys learn? The TE is NOT a vital part of our offense. PRIMARY role number: Blocking. Secondary role: Receiving. All of our TE's are good enough receivers to be options in the passing game. But they are not Eli's first nor second read. If they can block that's good enough.

JesseJames
08-09-2012, 06:10 PM
When will you guys learn? The TE is NOT a vital part of our offense. PRIMARY role number: Blocking. Secondary role: Receiving. All of our TE's are good enough receivers to be options in the passing game. But they are not Eli's first nor second read. If they can block that's good enough.

maybe if we had a TE with Fleeners pass catching ability Eli would definitely find him a lot more in the passing game and TE would be a vital part of the offense unfortunately we don't have that TE right now but if we did it would open up the entire game for the offense...

GMENAGAIN
08-09-2012, 06:11 PM
When will you guys learn? The TE is NOT a vital part of our offense. PRIMARY role number: Blocking. Secondary role: Receiving. All of our TE's are good enough receivers to be options in the passing game. But they are not Eli's first nor second read. If they can block that's good enough.

If blocking is the TE's primary role on our team, then why did we have no TE's on our team last year who were good blockers?

fansince69
08-09-2012, 06:18 PM
Then why did we have no TE's on our team last year who were good blockers?

That is your response?....maybe because the tes we got stuck with just were not capable blockers.......whether you want to accept it or not Flying truck is right...this offense is not and never will use a te much...they are very low in the options .....why do you think Shockey wanted out of here?

JesseJames
08-09-2012, 06:30 PM
That is your response?....maybe because the tes we got stuck with just were not capable blockers.......whether you want to accept it or not Flying truck is right...this offense is not and never will use a te much...they are very low in the options .....why do you think Shockey wanted out of here?

I think one of the reasons Shockey wanted out of here was because he wasn't getting the ball as much as he wanted and the reason for that was because he dropped too many easy catches and Eli had better options than taking a chance that Shockey would hang on to the ball. I liked Shockey until his mouth over loaded his a---s and he became an embarrassment to the team..

giantsfan420
08-09-2012, 06:42 PM
well to be fair, some are degrading the te position too much. the te position is still a pivotal part of our offense, we just don't feature them. and james did make a good point, i think it was jessejames, who said if we had that pass catching te maybe he'd be featured more...
i agree, but i still dont think to the extent other teams who feature the te use theirs...and i also believe bennett is as talented as fleener and has a bigger physical build and is already a great blocker...i think bennett, even if he has a so so year, woulda produced as much as a rookie fleener who isnt up to bennetts blocking level. long term fleener may be better, but i think JR's move was brilliant, we got an explosive rb while still getting a young, extremely talented, capable blocking te...insteada fleener in the 1rst and then who knows...our offseason worked perfectly and could not improve imho. wilson randle is how id rather go with bennett as FA although i made it no secret i wanted fleener badly. but i also wanted bennett badly. i would love if we still got fleener and our te core was fleener/bennett for the next 8 yrs...but we still got an explosive offense nonetheless

giantsfan420
08-09-2012, 06:43 PM
and based on the giants actions, the TE position hasnt been a focus since we drafted shockey. that was pre TC/KG...since, we havent taken a TE early in the draft or focused on it all that much. we were willing to go UDFA rookie last yr at te, so that should tell you how important it is.

fansince69
08-09-2012, 06:46 PM
I think one of the reasons Shockey wanted out of here was because he wasn't getting the ball as much as he wanted and the reason for that was because he dropped too many easy catches and Eli had better options than taking a chance that Shockey would hang on to the ball. I liked Shockey until his mouth over loaded his a---s and he became an embarrassment to the team..

I guess we will never know ...but I feel the reason shockey was not getting the ball is because he was not a featured part of this offense and he was being asked to block....he felt this was beneath his skill level so he started to run his mouth.....would it be nice to have a tight end that catches the ball ?..sure....But in this offense his first priority will be to block....catch passes second..

TheEnigma
08-09-2012, 06:55 PM
I'm not really optimistic about our TE situation this year but if Pope can work with this Robinson kid and get him developed, he could be a steal. With the way the league is changing to feature athletic TE's to cause mismatches in the passing game, we're going to need one down the road in a few years.

rainierjef
08-09-2012, 07:18 PM
When will you guys learn? The TE is NOT a vital part of our offense. PRIMARY role number: Blocking. Secondary role: Receiving. All of our TE's are good enough receivers to be options in the passing game. But they are not Eli's first nor second read. If they can block that's good enough.
this is a neanderthal way of thinking honestly. sorry if that stung but i am tired of hearing it.
this offense as evolved into a passing threat still run first but our offense is explosive through the air, a premier TE thats great at blocking/receiving ( a jason witten type player)in this system would open up so many more options for eli and create so many mismatches over the middle, opening up room to run with blocking and keeping the defense honest, the YAC would be crazy for eli and reduce some INT's cause instead of forcing something he can check down to the TE for extra yards. If you honestly feel TE is not vital for this offense please prove it, i've never heard of one position in Football that's not vital for the betterment of the team this isn't basketball!

rainierjef
08-09-2012, 07:19 PM
I'm not really optimistic about our TE situation this year but if Pope can work with this Robinson kid and get him developed, he could be a steal. With the way the league is changing to feature athletic TE's to cause mismatches in the passing game, we're going to need one down the road in a few years.
maybe a year or two from now Enigma, man.. im hoping this year but i don't see it too raw, hard offense to learn just not this year imho

rainierjef
08-09-2012, 07:23 PM
That is your response?....maybe because the tes we got stuck with just were not capable blockers.......whether you want to accept it or not Flying truck is right...this offense is not and never will use a te much...they are very low in the options .....why do you think Shockey wanted out of here?
Eli was developing,
Shockey was dropping some easy catches, plus he was declining a little in speed, still beast but declining.
Shockey in his prime without the antics in this offense now with eli(2011), cruz,nicks, i don't know who has the defense to prevent us from coming out of the game 300+ yards 2-4 TD's honestly

fansince69
08-09-2012, 07:44 PM
Eli was developing,
Shockey was dropping some easy catches, plus he was declining a little in speed, still beast but declining.
Shockey in his prime without the antics in this offense now with eli(2011), cruz,nicks, i don't know who has the defense to prevent us from coming out of the game 300+ yards 2-4 TD's honestly


Guess we have to agree to disagree...all I know is shockeyss numbers including how often he was used as a target declined one the current coaching staff took over...you can say anything you want...I still feel it is because in this offense the tight end is a blocker first and a receiver second

Mod_C
08-09-2012, 08:02 PM
When will you guys learn? The TE is NOT a vital part of our offense. PRIMARY role number: Blocking. Secondary role: Receiving. All of our TE's are good enough receivers to be options in the passing game. But they are not Eli's first nor second read. If they can block that's good enough.

You don't think blocking is a vital part of the offense? Tight ends in this offense are primarily used to block, no question. But their ability to catch passes when needed is critical.

ponch inda face
08-09-2012, 08:06 PM
When will you guys learn? The TE is NOT a vital part of our offense. PRIMARY role number: Blocking. Secondary role: Receiving. All of our TE's are good enough receivers to be options in the passing game. But they are not Eli's first nor second read. If they can block that's good enough.

This is an excellent point. Personally speaking, I was a bit underwhelmed by the TE personnel this year with all the reports coming out of camp. Couple that with the TE becoming such a dominant position on certain teams around the league and you tend to get a bit nervous with the season approaching. Then you take a look at our offense and what we feature (downfield passing to our WRs) and why (because it works; two SBs) and I think we can get away with working with avg TEs (we lost two in the same SB game). I think if the personnel we have at TE is at least decent in the talent dept, they can be coached up to do what we need a TE to do in this offense.

fansince69
08-09-2012, 08:06 PM
You don't think blocking is a vital part of the offense? Tight ends in this offense are primarily used to block, no question. But their ability to catch passes when needed is critical.

Nicely worded...this is exactly what I have been trying to say

giantsfan420
08-09-2012, 08:21 PM
this is a neanderthal way of thinking honestly. sorry if that stung but i am tired of hearing it.
this offense as evolved into a passing threat still run first but our offense is explosive through the air, a premier TE thats great at blocking/receiving ( a jason witten type player)in this system would open up so many more options for eli and create so many mismatches over the middle, opening up room to run with blocking and keeping the defense honest, the YAC would be crazy for eli and reduce some INT's cause instead of forcing something he can check down to the TE for extra yards. If you honestly feel TE is not vital for this offense please prove it, i've never heard of one position in Football that's not vital for the betterment of the team this isn't basketball!
um really? like the way we use our TE, the targets and completions, it isn't pivotal. Remember in 07? Boss was a rookie who was an ok blocker. Just like last season with Ballard only Ballrd was an UDFA rookie. I agree with your assessment of what a premier TE could do for the offense and open things up, but in our system, the TE isn't pivotal at all. And I mean that from a passing standpoint. The TE is absolutely pivotal in run blocking, which is why we struggled last season running.
But the FO under TC hasnt gotten a TE earlier than the 6th round I believe? We fielded 2 UDFA rookies. Beckum was drafted high, but he wasnt even supposed to be the prototypical te but a slot, off line type guy...

giantsfan420
08-09-2012, 08:24 PM
to add, we also have taken rb's higher in the draft and spent more draft picks on rb's overall than we have on TE's...in TC/KG system, the TE is required to do a whole lot of blocking, and making needed catches.
The RB, which is what u originally said about the TE and RB being equally pivotal to the offense, is more valued imo. rb gets mroe carries, more touches, and has to do some blocking too...whereas the te may have 5 catches. and thats a good day, on top of all the blocking duties

CDN_G-FAN
08-09-2012, 08:29 PM
If blocking is the TE's primary role on our team, then why did we have no TE's on our team last year who were good blockers?

EXACTLY.

I'm fine with a primarily blocking role for TE, as long as they can execute in their role.

Our running game was garbage last year, and the TEs didn't help.

RoanokeFan
08-09-2012, 08:45 PM
EXACTLY.

I'm fine with a primarily blocking role for TE, as long as they can execute in their role.

Our running game was garbage last year, and the TEs didn't help.

Having a role for tight ends and filling the needs are always two different things. But the OLine is the one unit that needs consistency of personnel to function, not just to be efficient. Let's hope we can get some consistency of persponnel this season

CDN_G-FAN
08-09-2012, 08:55 PM
Having a role for tight ends and filling the needs are always two different things. But the OLine is the one unit that needs consistency of personnel to function, not just to be efficient. Let's hope we can get some consistency of persponnel this season

True.

Alot of people got excited on here when we brought Bennett in because there was this preception that his receiving skills had been unused in Dallas.

I was excited because i thought we'd have the first legit blocking TE since shockey (who was just as much a threat in the passing game, Boss became decent at blocking, Ballard meh).

Eli was off the charts last year, and most don't seem to notice that he did it with one of the worst running games in the league.

Of course i want the line to play better too, but thinking we may still have some struggles along the line, so i was excited at having a TE that could play like a small lineman.

that excitement is leaking away now. hopefully he proves that i'm premature in my skepticism.

GMENAGAIN
08-09-2012, 09:04 PM
That is your response?....maybe because the tes we got stuck with just were not capable blockers.......whether you want to accept it or not Flying truck is right...this offense is not and never will use a te much...they are very low in the options .....why do you think Shockey wanted out of here?

Eh, because he is a ****ing moron?

RoanokeFan
08-09-2012, 09:05 PM
True.

Alot of people got excited on here when we brought Bennett in because there was this preception that his receiving skills had been unused in Dallas.

I was excited because i thought we'd have the first legit blocking TE since shockey (who was just as much a threat in the passing game, Boss became decent at blocking, Ballard meh).

Eli was off the charts last year, and most don't seem to notice that he did it with one of the worst running games in the league.

Of course i want the line to play better too, but thinking we may still have some struggles along the line, so i was excited at having a TE that could play like a small lineman.

that excitement is leaking away now. hopefully he proves that i'm premature in my skepticism.

According to Coach Pope, Bennett's problem is learning the "new language" of the GIANTS playbook. Hopefully he'll catch on before the regular season starts.

fansince69
08-09-2012, 09:07 PM
That is your response?....maybe because the tes we got stuck with just were not capable blockers.......whether you want to accept it or not Flying truck is right...this offense is not and never will use a te much...they are very low in the options .....why do you think Shockey wanted out of here?

Eh, because he is a ****ing moron?

I won't dispute that, but I meant from a football standpoint....it's because they were forcing him to block and he wanted to be a receiver......I should say the MAIN receiver and he just wasn't anymore

GMENAGAIN
08-09-2012, 09:10 PM
EXACTLY.

I'm fine with a primarily blocking role for TE, as long as they can execute in their role.

Our running game was garbage last year, and the TEs didn't help.

I think that our running game was hurt last year because we were getting below average blocking from our TE's. If Bennett blocks up to his reputaion and just catches a few balls our running game, and hence our offense, will improve.

Robinson is supposed to be a good blocker too, although I haven't heard anything about his blocking during camp . . ..

BillTheGreek
08-10-2012, 12:31 AM
Bennett is BIG , Fast for his size, he can Block, but can he catch ? Give him a chance, and I am sure he will prove himself ! Good Luck to him and the G-men !

Toadofsteel
08-10-2012, 11:29 AM
Honestly, I do respect what the TE position has to do in our offense. However, taking Wilson over Fleener in round 1 was the right choice. We all know that Bradshaw's feet are in danger of breaking down at any given point, and if we didn't have a great draft prospect to turn to, we'd be left with DJ Ware, Andre Brown, and Da'Rel Scott at RB. Maybe we could have taken Fleener if we were able to hold on to Brandon Jacobs, but with the production decline he's experiencing, i'd still be worried.

JesseJames
08-10-2012, 11:42 AM
people seem to forget that when the Giants drafted Shockey in the first round he was basically a receiving TE who had almost no blocking skills so it can't be that he was drafted to block first and catch passes as an after thought. I remember clearly that when Shockey got here he was unskilled in blocking and Dan Campbell our other TE taught Shockey the basics of blocking at the TE position, my point is that Shockey was drafted to catch passes and not for his blocking skills...

giantsfan420
08-10-2012, 12:21 PM
people seem to forget that when the Giants drafted Shockey in the first round he was basically a receiving TE who had almost no blocking skills so it can't be that he was drafted to block first and catch passes as an after thought. I remember clearly that when Shockey got here he was unskilled in blocking and Dan Campbell our other TE taught Shockey the basics of blocking at the TE position, my point is that Shockey was drafted to catch passes and not for his blocking skills...

but that was a completely different system with a diff HC and OC and GM

rainierjef
08-10-2012, 02:24 PM
I think that our running game was hurt last year because we were getting below average blocking from our TE's. If Bennett blocks up to his reputaion and just catches a few balls our running game, and hence our offense, will improve.

Robinson is supposed to be a good blocker too, although I haven't heard anything about his blocking during camp . . ..

Our running game hurt last year because we were getting below average blocks from out O-Line. you only notice the TE's inefficiency in blocking when a guy blows by them and gets a TFL or when the RB's tries to bounce it to the outside. I don't know where i heard it but even in blocking i heard Bennett still was doing stuff cowboyish, like fully extending him arms when blocking, Dline men can easily CDR that (chop/dip/rip). we still have problems at TE, we will see.

rainierjef
08-10-2012, 02:28 PM
Honestly, I do respect what the TE position has to do in our offense. However, taking Wilson over Fleener in round 1 was the right choice. We all know that Bradshaw's feet are in danger of breaking down at any given point, and if we didn't have a great draft prospect to turn to, we'd be left with DJ Ware, Andre Brown, and Da'Rel Scott at RB. Maybe we could have taken Fleener if we were able to hold on to Brandon Jacobs, but with the production decline he's experiencing, i'd still be worried.
when we drafted wilson we still had jacobs on the roster. i am not saying i absolutely hate the wilson pick, i just feel that Fleener would of been more of a productive force for this offense now that they are evolving to that aerial threat. i would of even taken an Oline in the first as that was the real reaon out running game sucked last year, i dont think it was the Rb's, its easier to blame them cause then you have to do research into why the Oline didn't gel but it was indeed the Oline. i still feel that unexpected jump by tampa altered what we would of done at 32.

GMENAGAIN
08-10-2012, 03:17 PM
Our running game hurt last year because we were getting below average blocks from out O-Line. you only notice the TE's inefficiency in blocking when a guy blows by them and gets a TFL or when the RB's tries to bounce it to the outside. I don't know where i heard it but even in blocking i heard Bennett still was doing stuff cowboyish, like fully extending him arms when blocking, Dline men can easily CDR that (chop/dip/rip). we still have problems at TE, we will see.

And I noticed that a lot . . . Pascoe spent a lot of last season on his back like Ralphie from A Christmas Story.

In an interview on Sirius last week, JR said that the blocking the team got from Ballard and Pascoe last year was "just ok" (I think that he was being kind), and that he expected Bennett's blocking to be a factor in improving the running game this year.

In any event, I agree with you that our TE blocking was was not the only reason for our struggles in the running game last year. It definitely was a contributing factor though . . . .

rainierjef
08-10-2012, 05:34 PM
And I noticed that a lot . . . Pascoe spent a lot of last season on his back like Ralphie from A Christmas Story.

In an interview on Sirius last week, JR said that the blocking the team got from Ballard and Pascoe last year was "just ok" (I think that he was being kind), and that he expected Bennett's blocking to be a factor in improving the running game this year.

In any event, I agree with you that our TE blocking was was not the only reason for our struggles in the running game last year. It definitely was a contributing factor though . . . .

oh i agree.. i understand the TE's play a role in the blocking schemes and that they did have an effect not springing blocks to the outside but i saw more of an interenal penetration all year, the line collapsing, the B/A gaps closing in. personally i put more blame on the Oline