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BlueSanta
12-12-2011, 02:09 AM
I am also realistic enough to know that extending the season is pointless if we dont improve this defense.

At this point I'd say we have 1 of the 3 worst defenses in the NFL. Going on what I have seen, not just the stats i'd say the Patriots and Colts are the only teams I can definitly say are worse. Maybe the Bills...maybe.

JJC7301
12-12-2011, 02:14 AM
I kinda agree with you. The only difference is that I believe (I'm not certain at all, of course), but I believe that we have the POTENTIAL to be better on D than the other teams mentioned. We have players that have been great or good for quite a few years.

I hope we make the playoffs, but I wouldn't expect much once there.

JMFP2
12-12-2011, 02:16 AM
I am also realistic enough to know that extending the season is pointless if we dont improve this defense.

At this point I'd say we have 1 of the 3 worst defenses in the NFL. Going on what I have seen, not just the stats i'd say the Patriots and Colts are the only teams I can definitly say are worse. Maybe the Bills...maybe.


</P>


</P>


I'll concede, the defense sucks ***.</P>


But, given the last 2 weeks, I'm firmly convinced Eli gives the Giants a slugger's chance to beat any team in the NFL.</P>


This defense just needs to improve from "F" to "D+" over the next 3 weeks.</P>

miked1958
12-12-2011, 07:55 AM
I am also realistic enough to know that extending the season is pointless if we dont improve this defense.

At this point I'd say we have 1 of the 3 worst defenses in the NFL.* Going on what I have seen, not just the stats i'd say the Patriots and Colts are the only teams I can definitly say are worse. Maybe the Bills...maybe.



Yep all we did was knock ourselves down a few pegs lower draft pick wise. Unless we expect to win all of our games 44-43 we better learn to play some D. We were a few plays from losing that game and firing everyone on D coaching staff as they were a laughing stock of NFL last night. We were a mere inches from that as Ross was beat bad by Austin.

egyptian420
12-12-2011, 08:02 AM
I agree as well, our teams is hanging together by a thread. We can't expect our offense to carry us like that, when our defense plays that bad, our offense pretty much cannot make any mistakes. We need to improve Big time on D if we want to do anything worthwhile in these next 3 games/playoffs.

SweetZombieJesus
12-12-2011, 08:10 AM
I'd rather not worry about this for a few days and just enjoy the win. It's probably going to be the only positive memory for a while. And maybe our last of Coughlin as a coach.

We are a pretty lousy team with a couple players who are lights out.

Our defense in particular is terrible.

121 points given up in the past 3 games.

On pace to give up 441 points this season (worse than Sheridan's 2009 and 2nd worst in team history only behind the 1966 Giants who gave up 501).

Anybody remember when we had a defense that could hold games to 10-7?

buddy33
12-12-2011, 08:15 AM
Agree and disagree. Yes, they have been bad, but so are some other teams defenses that have very good records.

I know many don't agree, and I'm not saying the offense is playing bad, but the difference with the Giants defense and say the Saints and Green Bay defenses is that their offense take advantage of what the defense gives them better. Example, the fumble last night by Dallas set the Giants up in the red zone. They got a field goal. The Saints or Green Bay would have punched that ball in the end zone. Dont forget the big play to Nicks that set up the Giants with 1st and goal. Again, another field goal.

This is not saying the offense is playing bad. I'm just saying that with a struggling defense, the offense needs to take advantage of anything the defense gives them. Another example would be after the Safety. The offense needs to make a TD after that Safety.

NWKEffectElement
12-12-2011, 08:19 AM
Injuries are killing us.

Kingb50
12-12-2011, 08:22 AM
The sad thing is, teams are not just throwing on us , they're running it down our throats!

chizz
12-12-2011, 08:28 AM
WHEN WILL FEWELL LEARN

bengalee28
12-12-2011, 08:32 AM
Good point but Green Bay, New Orleans, Atlanta, and Detroit have mediocre to garbage defenses as well. The only team with a dominant defense is San Francisco and they can be beat obviously. So we still have a chance given how good our offense can be. This defense has got to make a stop when it counts and that's gonna determine if we get to the playoffs.

krygny
12-12-2011, 08:44 AM
I don't know. I don't understand the defeatist thinking around here. Like, if we clearly don't have the talent to win a Super Bowl, we might as well pack it in now and go watch hockey. Someone else posted something like that. The guy would rather we had lost last night and get the season over with, than win and end up losing to the Cowboys the last game of the season. Why?!!

Did the Giants have any chance to win 3 playoff road games and a Super Bowl against an un defeated team in '07-'08? NFW. Remember how our defense played the first two games that season.

Sometimes, what appears to be a major problem gets fixed. Not always, but sometimes. This defense can be fixed. It is not unfixable. And don't give me BS about Fewell can't fix it. Perry Fewell developed a game plan last year that stuffed Michael Vick for 52 minutes until every player on the defense decided to forget their assignments on every single play remaining in the game. Perry Fewell developed a game plan that handed Tom Brady his first home loss in 3 years. And Fewell is not alone. He's not working in a bubble with the rest of the coaches waiting for him to step out with the answers.

Prolong the season. Things can get better. That doesn't mean they will, but we have a fighting chance. What more can a fan ask for in December?

gumby742
12-12-2011, 08:47 AM
I kinda agree with you. The only difference is that I believe (I'm not certain at all, of course), but I believe that we have the POTENTIAL to be better on D than the other teams mentioned. We have players that have been great or good for quite a few years. I hope we make the playoffs, but I wouldn't expect much once there.</P>


This is really it. We have potential. That's why it's the fault of the coaching staff that they haven't tapped into it yet.</P>

Redeyejedi
12-12-2011, 08:54 AM
WHEN WILL FEWELL LEARNLearn what. I see him trying everything out there and nothing works. He plays man and blitzes guys are wide open because the corners and safeties are all hurt.They play soft zone guys get open because they cant get pressure with 4. I hate to break it to u but its not Fewell. There isnt enough talent or the talent is injured. The QB's the Giants have played the last 3 weeks are really good there going to find the defenses weakness

gumby742
12-12-2011, 08:56 AM
WHEN WILL FEWELL LEARNLearn what. I see him trying everything out there and nothing works. He plays man and blitzes guys are wide open because the corners and safeties are all hurt.They play soft zone guys get open because they cant get pressure with 4. I hate to break it to u but its not Fewell. There isnt enough talent or the talent is injured. The QB's the Giants have played the last 3 weeks are really good there going to find the defenses weakness</P>


People keep on saying this and it's getting old. Getting pressure with 4 is a luxury, not a necessity. How many teams in the last 10 years have been able to get CONSISTENT pressure with just rusing 4? Not many.</P>


It's like saying, my punt rush defense isn't working because I don't have shutdown corners.</P>

miked1958
12-12-2011, 08:59 AM
I'd rather not worry about this for a few days and just enjoy the win. It's probably going to be the only positive memory for a while. And maybe our last of Coughlin as a coach.

We are a pretty lousy team with a couple players who are lights out.

Our defense in particular is terrible.

121 points given up in the past 3 games.

On pace to give up 441 points this season (worse than Sheridan's 2009 and 2nd worst in team history only behind the 1966 Giants who gave up 501).

Anybody remember when we had a defense that could hold games to 10-7?
</P>


Yes i remember but it seems so long ago </P>

buddy33
12-12-2011, 09:01 AM
WHEN WILL FEWELL LEARNLearn what. I see him trying everything out there and nothing works. He plays man and blitzes guys are wide open because the corners and safeties are all hurt.They play soft zone guys get open because they cant get pressure with 4. I hate to break it to u but its not Fewell. There isnt enough talent or the talent is injured. The QB's the Giants have played the last 3 weeks are really good there going to find the defenses weakness

Agreed. PF lost 3 CB's in the pres season, the 1st round defense pick ( another CB) broke his foot, he lost his starting MLB, lost his second round DT in pre season, Tuck has not been the same a year, Osi has been in and out of the line up, and even when they get DB's sitting at home that start to play well they get injured and are lost for the season. Last night they where also without KP.

miked1958
12-12-2011, 09:01 AM
I agree as well, our teams is hanging together by a thread. We can't expect our offense to carry us like that, when our defense plays that bad, our offense pretty much cannot make any mistakes. We need to improve Big time on D if we want to do anything worthwhile in these next 3 games/playoffs.
</P>


and i think that is what causes the offense to sometimes make mistakes. they are so worried about having to always score because they dont trust the D they sometimes play a little tight down in the RedZone...</P>

miked1958
12-12-2011, 09:04 AM
I am also realistic enough to know that extending the season is pointless if we dont improve this defense.

At this point I'd say we have 1 of the 3 worst defenses in the NFL. Going on what I have seen, not just the stats i'd say the Patriots and Colts are the only teams I can definitly say are worse. Maybe the Bills...maybe.


</P>


Pats D has actually played alot better since their loss to us</P>

miked1958
12-12-2011, 09:06 AM
I am also realistic enough to know that extending the season is pointless if we dont improve this defense.

At this point I'd say we have 1 of the 3 worst defenses in the NFL. Going on what I have seen, not just the stats i'd say the Patriots and Colts are the only teams I can definitly say are worse. Maybe the Bills...maybe.


</P>


LOL&gt; so true. My Nephews. Joey a Cowboys fan and Kage a Pats fan both said in texts to me last night (and they were not even together) that if the Giants just had a AVERAGE DEFENSE they would be SERIOUS CONTENDERS for another SB Title. And they both hate the Gmen.</P>


I'll concede, the defense sucks ***.</P>


But, given the last 2 weeks, I'm firmly convinced Eli gives the Giants a slugger's chance to beat any team in the NFL.</P>


This defense just needs to improve from "F" to "D+" over the next 3 weeks.</P>

miked1958
12-12-2011, 09:10 AM
I don't know. I don't understand the defeatist thinking around here. Like, if we clearly don't have the talent to win a Super Bowl, we might as well pack it in now and go watch hockey. Someone else posted something like that. The guy would rather we had lost last night and get the season over with, than win and end up losing to the Cowboys the last game of the season. Why?!!

Did the Giants have any chance to win 3 playoff road games and a Super Bowl against an un defeated team in '07-'08? NFW. Remember how our defense played the first two games that season.

Sometimes, what appears to be a major problem gets fixed. Not always, but sometimes. This defense can be fixed. It is not unfixable. And don't give me BS about Fewell can't fix it. Perry Fewell developed a game plan last year that stuffed Michael Vick for 52 minutes until every player on the defense decided to forget their assignments on every single play remaining in the game. Perry Fewell developed a game plan that handed Tom Brady his first home loss in 3 years. And Fewell is not alone. He's not working in a bubble with the rest of the coaches waiting for him to step out with the answers.

Prolong the season. Things can get better. That doesn't mean they will, but we have a fighting chance. What more can a fan ask for in December?

</P>


LOL i think you are talking about one of my threads where i was talking about getting better draft picks and getting rid of the coaching staff. Yep. I get upset sometimes with this team. But the Homer in me feels we can make a run to another TITLE and the realist says we need to retool because we although i get where you are coming from about the 07 D... We really dont have the same players or talent level of what we had to work with going into that late title run. However I am with you man</P>

miked1958
12-12-2011, 09:10 AM
I don't know. I don't understand the defeatist thinking around here. Like, if we clearly don't have the talent to win a Super Bowl, we might as well pack it in now and go watch hockey. Someone else posted something like that. The guy would rather we had lost last night and get the season over with, than win and end up losing to the Cowboys the last game of the season. Why?!!

Did the Giants have any chance to win 3 playoff road games and a Super Bowl against an un defeated team in '07-'08? NFW. Remember how our defense played the first two games that season.

Sometimes, what appears to be a major problem gets fixed. Not always, but sometimes. This defense can be fixed. It is not unfixable. And don't give me BS about Fewell can't fix it. Perry Fewell developed a game plan last year that stuffed Michael Vick for 52 minutes until every player on the defense decided to forget their assignments on every single play remaining in the game. Perry Fewell developed a game plan that handed Tom Brady his first home loss in 3 years. And Fewell is not alone. He's not working in a bubble with the rest of the coaches waiting for him to step out with the answers.

Prolong the season. Things can get better. That doesn't mean they will, but we have a fighting chance. What more can a fan ask for in December?

</P>


had to try and delete 2 of these posts. for some reason same post came in here 3times in a row</P>

miked1958
12-12-2011, 09:10 AM
I don't know. I don't understand the defeatist thinking around here. Like, if we clearly don't have the talent to win a Super Bowl, we might as well pack it in now and go watch hockey. Someone else posted something like that. The guy would rather we had lost last night and get the season over with, than win and end up losing to the Cowboys the last game of the season. Why?!!

Did the Giants have any chance to win 3 playoff road games and a Super Bowl against an un defeated team in '07-'08? NFW. Remember how our defense played the first two games that season.

Sometimes, what appears to be a major problem gets fixed. Not always, but sometimes. This defense can be fixed. It is not unfixable. And don't give me BS about Fewell can't fix it. Perry Fewell developed a game plan last year that stuffed Michael Vick for 52 minutes until every player on the defense decided to forget their assignments on every single play remaining in the game. Perry Fewell developed a game plan that handed Tom Brady his first home loss in 3 years. And Fewell is not alone. He's not working in a bubble with the rest of the coaches waiting for him to step out with the answers.

Prolong the season. Things can get better. That doesn't mean they will, but we have a fighting chance. What more can a fan ask for in December?

</P>


Eli gives us a fighting chance in any game we play. so we will see</P>

Redeyejedi
12-12-2011, 09:15 AM
WHEN WILL FEWELL LEARNLearn what. I see him trying everything out there and nothing works. He plays man and blitzes guys are wide open because the corners and safeties are all hurt.They play soft zone guys get open because they cant get pressure with 4. I hate to break it to u but its not Fewell. There isnt enough talent or the talent is injured. The QB's the Giants have played the last 3 weeks are really good there going to find the defenses weakness</P>


People keep on saying this and it's getting old.* Getting pressure with 4 is a luxury, not a necessity.* How many teams in the last 10 years have been able to get CONSISTENT pressure with just rusing 4?* Not many.</P>


It's like saying, my punt rush defense isn't working because I don't have shutdown corners.</P>First off that wasnt the point of my post. The point was nothing the Giants do on defense works.They have thrown everything out there and they get torched every which way.
Yes its a luxury but when U draft players on the defensive line like the Giants do. When you use a good amount of your resources from the draft and FA on acquiring pieces for your front 4 higher expectations of what they can do is absolutely warranted.

JJC7301
12-12-2011, 11:12 AM
Agree and disagree. Yes, they have been bad, but so are some other teams defenses that have very good records. I know many don't agree, and I'm not saying the offense is playing bad, but the difference with the Giants defense and say the Saints and Green Bay defenses is that their offense take advantage of what the defense gives them better. Example, the fumble last night by Dallas set the Giants up in the red zone. They got a field goal. The Saints or Green Bay would have punched that ball in the end zone. Dont forget the big play to Nicks that set up the Giants with 1st and goal. Again, another field goal. This is not saying the offense is playing bad. I'm just saying that with a struggling defense, the offense needs to take advantage of anything the defense gives them. Another example would be after the Safety. The offense needs to make a TD after that Safety.</P>


I gotta disagree. The difference between the Giants, Pack, and Saints is that the Giants D is supposed to be a fearsome group of studs with loads of talent on the D-line. The 49ers have a good D, and so do the Steelers and Ravens. Even the Jets. What happened to the Giants?</P>

egyptian420
12-12-2011, 12:57 PM
I agree as well, our teams is hanging together by a thread. We can't expect our offense to carry us like that, when our defense plays that bad, our offense pretty much cannot make any mistakes. We need to improve Big time on D if we want to do anything worthwhile in these next 3 games/playoffs.
</p>


and i think that is what causes the offense to sometimes make mistakes. they are so worried about having to always score because they dont trust the D they sometimes play a little tight down in the RedZone...</p>
Yup.....how can the offense trust the defense when our coach himself doesn't. That's pretty much what Coughlin was saying by going for it on that 4th down, there was enough time for us to not have to go for it if our defense was actually doing something. I am happy Coughlin went for it though, he did the right thing.

nygfanmaybe
12-12-2011, 01:10 PM
I tend to agree that unless a turnaround on defense occurs comparable to the one that took place after 3 games into the '07 season, our chances of going far into the playoffs...if we get in...seems slim at best. </P>


Bottom line for me is that I am just happy to be sitting here on 12/12/11 feeling like we are still in itand knowing that when I sit down next week the game is going to mean something.</P>

bigjeep
12-12-2011, 01:13 PM
I am also realistic enough to know that extending the season is pointless if we dont improve this defense.

At this point I'd say we have 1 of the 3 worst defenses in the NFL. Going on what I have seen, not just the stats i'd say the Patriots and Colts are the only teams I can definitly say are worse. Maybe the Bills...maybe.


</P>


Hey, the "buts" belong to me! [;)]</P>

krygny
01-17-2012, 01:12 PM
<font size="4" color="#FF0000">** DEAD THREAD ALERT **</font>

Just thought I'd revive it because it's pretty funny now. It's really a shame how some people give up so easily.

peytonkrug
01-17-2012, 01:39 PM
You have got to be kidding. The defense is playing great. So Rodgers runs on us a bit a time or two. This team is great.</P>


What do you mean, we are just ruining our draft picks. It's the fricken playoffs, I've got to enjoy3 more weeks of football, and possibly 2 more.</P>


It's the HERE and NOW people.</P>


Or maybe I'm just from Nebraska and I have nothing else to cheer about.</P>

giantsforce
01-17-2012, 01:58 PM
You have got to be kidding. The defense is playing great. So Rodgers runs on us a bit a time or two. This team is great.</P>


What do* you mean, we are just ruining our draft picks. It's the fricken playoffs, I've got to enjoy*3 more weeks of football, and possibly 2 more.</P>


It's the HERE and NOW people.</P>


Or maybe I'm just from Nebraska and I have nothing else to cheer about.</P>You got to admit though, our secondary is nothing to write home about. If it wasn't for Osi stripping the ball and hitting it twice so we can recover it, GB had a sure TD since the WR had smoked Ross. Score was 20-10 at that time. Had GB scored there, we maybe singing a different tune today. Defensively, we go as far as the front 4 take us.

JJC7301
01-17-2012, 02:51 PM
You have got to be kidding. The defense is playing great. So Rodgers runs on us a bit a time or two. This team is great.</P>


What do you mean, we are just ruining our draft picks. It's the fricken playoffs, I've got to enjoy3 more weeks of football, and possibly 2 more.</P>


It's the HERE and NOW people.</P>


Or maybe I'm just from Nebraska and I have nothing else to cheer about.</P>


You got to admit though, our secondary is nothing to write home about. If it wasn't for Osi stripping the ball and hitting it twice so we can recover it, GB had a sure TD since the WR had smoked Ross. Score was 20-10 at that time. Had GB scored there, we maybe singing a different tune today. Defensively, we go as far as the front 4 take us.</P>


Secondary was fine. When the line wasn't getting to Rodgers, the secondary was doing their job for the most part. Remember -- this was the 15-1 defending champs with a QB who threw 45 TDs and 6 INTS the entire year we're talking about. This wasn't some schlub offense. The 49ers have had the best D this year and they let up 32 points against the O powerhouse, the Saints.</P>


We can't always expect our D shut down these high powered offenses like we did the Pats in '07. That was something special. We CAN do it, but its just not likely that we're going to be able to shut them down like that again in such a grand fashion. </P>

JMGGIANTS
01-17-2012, 03:14 PM
<font size="4" color="#FF0000">** DEAD THREAD ALERT **</font>

Just thought I'd revive it because it's pretty funny now. It's really a shame how some people give up so easily.


You revived the post but unfortunately you misinterpreted it? The point of the OP and the commets was that our defense was stinking it up and that it needs to turn around, all of which was true. Not the same as giving up.