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Snappinnecks
08-13-2012, 09:42 AM
Tyron Smith
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/13/demarcus-ware-no-one-has-blocked-me-like-teammate-tyron-smith/



AND WE HAVE:

A guy who worries about what mattress he's sleeping on to get him on the field!

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/08/giants_will_beatty_returns_to.html

Jahh
08-13-2012, 09:44 AM
Its been proven though that you don't need an elite LT to win championships. Eli has done a good job of feeling the pressure and getting rid of the ball when needed.

Moke
08-13-2012, 09:45 AM
1st world problems for Beatty

Snappinnecks
08-13-2012, 09:49 AM
Its been proven though that you don't need an elite LT to win championships. Eli has done a good job of feeling the pressure and getting rid of the ball when needed.

Have you even looked at our schedule this year? Do you know how many times Eli had to pull games out of his a** last year? He's a franchise QB but that last time I looked I didn't see a cape with an 'S' on it. If you don't protect him you can just throw out the idea of us making the playoffs right now.

Moke
08-13-2012, 09:53 AM
Have you even looked at our schedule this year? Do you know how many times Eli had to pull games out of his a** last year? He's a franchise QB but that last time I looked I didn't see a cape with an 'S' on it. If you don't protect him you can just throw out the idea of us making the playoffs right now.


Yepp, exactly. And it's not even about the QB - it's also involves the running backs. Hopefully they can create holes for Bradshaw and co. depending on who gets that #2 and #3 spots.

giantsfan420
08-13-2012, 09:55 AM
wait, the same t.smith who got burned by us in both games last season? Odd bc Tuck, Osi, and JPP all had good games lined up against him with sacks and pressures, in fact I hadnt even remembered him during our matchups bc we really had no issue vs the dallas OL last season, it wasnt like he stood out. All 3 of our de's got sacks lined up across smith...

B-Red22
08-13-2012, 10:03 AM
wait, the same t.smith who got burned by us in both games last season? Odd bc Tuck, Osi, and JPP all had good games lined up against him with sacks and pressures, in fact I hadnt even remembered him during our matchups bc we really had no issue vs the dallas OL last season, it wasnt like he stood out. All 3 of our de's got sacks lined up across smith...

That was his rookie year

Jahh
08-13-2012, 10:06 AM
Yepp, exactly. And it's not even about the QB - it's also involves the running backs. Hopefully they can create holes for Bradshaw and co. depending on who gets that #2 and #3 spots.

I just don't see how we are any worse off than last year. We will be fine.

Toadofsteel
08-13-2012, 10:07 AM
The great thing here is that Tyron Smith can't simultaneously play LT and RT... which means that he can't stop Tuck JPP and Osi all at the same time.

Moke
08-13-2012, 10:07 AM
I just don't see how we are any worse off than last year. We will be fine.


Exactly. We didn't really have a scary running game at all. We'll be fine in the passing game, but running?

giantsfan420
08-13-2012, 10:09 AM
so...?the article makes him out to be this perfect LT and he isn't. Our OL ended up doing a better job vs Ware than Smith did against our 3 de's. i know smith has a lot of potential, but so does JPP, and TUck and Osi can make even the best look bad, so I am not worried at all. Beatty held is own against Orakpo and Cole, and both those guys are similar to Ware in that the are great pass rushers...

great point toad

Jahh
08-13-2012, 10:09 AM
Exactly. We didn't really have a scary running game at all. We'll be fine in the passing game, but running?

We added some pieces to help the running game, I think. Martellus and David Wilson I think will both help and fact is players can improve or regress from year to year. I think the running game will improve simply from progressing from last year.

bgblucru56
08-13-2012, 10:09 AM
The great thing here is that Tyron Smith can't simultaneously play LT and RT... which means that he can't stop Tuck JPP and Osi all at the same time.

i can go with this one. true statement

Toadofsteel
08-13-2012, 10:10 AM
As long as Wilson can resist the temptation to reverse field (and risk a TFHL, tackle for HUGE loss), our running game will be much improved...

Carter.525
08-13-2012, 10:15 AM
Tyron Smith is going to be a good one... and I dont like it

ELIte4MVP
08-13-2012, 10:27 AM
i read this a while ago and found it interesting. i think it applies here fairly well:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--left-tackle-in-the-nfl-is-gradually-become-a-less-valued-position.html

Buddy333
08-13-2012, 10:39 AM
Smith is going to be a very good LT and he was just a rookie last year. If Eli didn't get rid of the ball the way he did last year he would have been sacked 10 times a game. The Giants OL was not good last year.

foxie
08-13-2012, 10:59 AM
We have been EXTREMELY fortunate thru the years that Eli has not been seriously injured, but I feel we are living on borrowed time with a deteriorating, aged, oft injured, of a Patchwork OL . WE only go as far a ELI takes us, the season & other 21 players won't matter if he goes down. We need to pick up a quality OL (Tackle) like we did when we got McKenzie from the Jets, Pay the price OR Pay the price IMHO!

repeatchamps
08-13-2012, 11:09 AM
Keep your eye on Locklear. If Beatty continues to have chronic back issues, Locklear may win a job on the starting O-line. Check his rating on Pro Football Focus. May not be a bad thing having Locklear at one of the two starting Tackle positions.

Ntegrase96
08-13-2012, 11:20 AM
The LT position isn't as important as it used to be.

However I am very thankful for Tyron Smith. Dude was a top 5 RT last year as a rookie and only 20 years old for much of the season.

He should make for a top 5-10 LT and only get better. I think Ware talked him up a lot in this article though.

sincethesixtys
08-13-2012, 11:30 AM
We haven't used any early picks on offensive linemen in a few years. Hopefully it doesn't blow up in our faces.

Cool Papa B.
08-13-2012, 11:30 AM
i read this a while ago and found it interesting. i think it applies here fairly well:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--left-tackle-in-the-nfl-is-gradually-become-a-less-valued-position.html

Good article. But I still feel the LT position one of the most important pos. on offense. You still need a good/decent running game to complement your passing attack. And you can't under estimate the need to protect your most important asset-your QB. Just ask Joe Theismann

ELIte4MVP
08-13-2012, 11:50 AM
The LT position isn't as important as it used to be.

However I am very thankful for Tyron Smith. Dude was a top 5 RT last year as a rookie and only 20 years old for much of the season.

He should make for a top 5-10 LT and only get better. I think Ware talked him up a lot in this article though.

exactly. LT isn't as much of a staple as it used to be. You used to need an elite qb and lt if you wanted to succeed. now, its not a necessity, but having a good one, like smith, is definitely a bonus

TheAnalyst
08-13-2012, 12:05 PM
Jerry realized you need a oline to protect you QB to win a superbowl. That was a great, un-Jerry like pick by him. I hope Reese gets us a stud LT soon cause Beatty is starting to worry me with all his injuries.

jomo
08-13-2012, 12:09 PM
Tyron Smith
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/13/demarcus-ware-no-one-has-blocked-me-like-teammate-tyron-smith/



AND WE HAVE:

A guy who worries about what mattress he's sleeping on to get him on the field!

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/08/giants_will_beatty_returns_to.html We won't have a better left tackle (very down on Beatty).............but they won't have a better QB! We need to have a better team, that's all...............and we will.

rainierjef
08-13-2012, 04:09 PM
there is no position on a football team that is not neccessary or any less important than the next. personally im tired of analyst saying stuff like you don't need a great running back to be good then the next year its you don't need a great TE to be good then the next year is you dont need a great LT to be good, and fans following suite. that is just not true this is not basetball all positions are necessary, and important and if you have a suck *** player at that position you will see the ramifications of it. i think Osi is a clear reason as to why you need a very technically sound, quick footed, LT.

Toadofsteel
08-13-2012, 04:14 PM
there is no position on a football team that is not neccessary or any less important than the next. personally im tired of analyst saying stuff like you don't need a great running back to be good then the next year its you don't need a great TE to be good then the next year is you dont need a great LT to be good, and fans following suite. that is just not true this is not basetball all positions are necessary, and important and if you have a suck *** player at that position you will see the ramifications of it. i think Osi is a clear reason as to why you need a very technically sound, quick footed, LT.

Essentially this is the case. A better maxim to follow would be "A team is only as strong as its weakest link". That's part of why i'm a bit perplexed by the lack of o-line picks in the early rounds. I'm not going to second-guess Reese, but it just makes me scratch my head a bit, since the o-line is obviously the weakest part of our entire team by far.

BeatYale
08-13-2012, 04:27 PM
there is no position on a football team that is not neccessary or any less important than the next. personally im tired of analyst saying stuff like you don't need a great running back to be good then the next year its you don't need a great TE to be good then the next year is you dont need a great LT to be good, and fans following suite. that is just not true this is not basetball all positions are necessary, and important and if you have a suck *** player at that position you will see the ramifications of it. i think Osi is a clear reason as to why you need a very technically sound, quick footed, LT.

What analysts are saying that stuff?

BeatYale
08-13-2012, 04:37 PM
but it just makes me scratch my head a bit, since the o-line is obviously the weakest part of our entire team by far.

The coaching staff and GM obviously have better means of evaluating the teams strengths and weaknesses than fans do. It's not as simple as: "Last in rushing yards = Terrible OLine." If anyone on the OLine was a serious liability, because he's lacking ability/talent then I highly doubt the team would avoid trying to replace him. The OLine has to play well as a unit and that requires guys to gel and form chemistry on the field. Throwing new bodies into the mix won't solve that dilemma, it can actually make it worse. That's an aspect of it that us fans can't figure out by rewatching games and looking at box scores.

gmen46
08-13-2012, 06:01 PM
Tyron Smith
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/13/demarcus-ware-no-one-has-blocked-me-like-teammate-tyron-smith/



AND WE HAVE:

A guy who worries about what mattress he's sleeping on to get him on the field!

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/08/giants_will_beatty_returns_to.html


EEEEE!

http://youtu.be/wCfWHqrYUqo
http://youtu.be/wCfWHqrYUqo

Imgrate
08-13-2012, 06:28 PM
there is no position on a football team that is not neccessary or any less important than the next. personally im tired of analyst saying stuff like you don't need a great running back to be good then the next year its you don't need a great TE to be good then the next year is you dont need a great LT to be good, and fans following suite. that is just not true this is not basetball all positions are necessary, and important and if you have a suck *** player at that position you will see the ramifications of it. i think Osi is a clear reason as to why you need a very technically sound, quick footed, LT.Some positions are absolutely more important than others. Why else would teams invest more money and draft picks into some positions than others? Because they are more important to winning than other positions

Drez
08-13-2012, 07:10 PM
I just don't see how we are any worse off than last year. We will be fine.
You do understand that our QB was pressured on 40% of his dropbacks last season?

You cannot maintain long term success like that.

Toadofsteel
08-13-2012, 07:18 PM
You do understand that our QB was pressured on 40% of his dropbacks last season?

You cannot maintain long term success like that.

Not if you have scrubs like Rodgers or Brady that crumble under any kind of pressure...

rainierjef
08-13-2012, 09:49 PM
Some positions are absolutely more important than others. Why else would teams invest more money and draft picks into some positions than others? Because they are more important to winning than other positions
You can have the best QB in the world if the Oline sucks he's going to get hurt
Same for his receivers if they are dropping balls, tipping balls his yards going to look like trash and his interception rate are going to be high ( look at Eli's 2010 season )
you can have the best RB in the world if the Oline sucks hes not gonna gain any yards
you can have the best pass rushers in the world if the corners suck then quick passes all day for big gains
i can make analogies for each positions.
its a cohesive collection of talent that make up a good football team (team) being the key word.
i make the reference that this is not basketball cause as we all know you can have one all star player on a b-ball team and go far that's not the asme for football.
so i have to respectfully disagree with you on this there is not one position that is more important than the next to me.

rainierjef
08-13-2012, 10:00 PM
What analysts are saying that stuff?

All the draft analyst that said RB is not a needed position anymore due to more team going to the arial attack.

GameTime
08-13-2012, 10:07 PM
need a good to very good o line to be successful. While last years Oline wast one of the giants best they were still good to very good at times.

Drez
08-13-2012, 10:55 PM
Not if you have scrubs like Rodgers or Brady that crumble under any kind of pressure...
Not with any QB.

Drez
08-13-2012, 10:58 PM
All the draft analyst that said RB is not a needed position anymore due to more team going to the arial attack.
They'd be right in saying that, then.

RB has been devalued in the modern NFL.

Buddy333
08-13-2012, 11:09 PM
Yeah, but that is why it would be so good if the Giants could get their run game back. Defenses are prepared to play he pass more. If they could get the 2008 running game back wit their air attack they would have a very good shot at repeat.

rainierjef
08-13-2012, 11:12 PM
They'd be right in saying that, then.

RB has been devalued in the modern NFL.
until a team with a good running game takes advantage of teams prepared for the pass. look at what SF did to minnesota running the ball.

Drez
08-13-2012, 11:13 PM
Yeah, but that is why it would be so good if the Giants could get their run game back. Defenses are prepared to play he pass more. If they could get the 2008 running game back wit their air attack they would have a very good shot at repeat.
I agree that we could be even more successful if we could recapture a more balanced attack.

However, in the grander scheme of things the rule now favor the passing game more than running game. The days of needing a dominating ground game are over.

Drez
08-13-2012, 11:16 PM
until a team with a good running game takes advantage of teams prepared for the pass. look at what SF did to minnesota running the ball.
What was one of the biggest failings of SF in the playoffs last year? They didn't have an effective passing game, which directly related to them not converting on 3rd downs. Hell, they only completed ONE pass to a WR all game.

And did you just use a preseason game as a counter? And even then, it'd still be an outlier... an exception to the rule.

Buddy333
08-13-2012, 11:17 PM
Oh it's the trend alright, but if the Giants had a dominant running game I think they would use it more to make their passing attack that much better. Teams would not know how to defend them.

rainierjef
08-13-2012, 11:41 PM
What was one of the biggest failings of SF in the playoffs last year? They didn't have an effective passing game, which directly related to them not converting on 3rd downs. Hell, they only completed ONE pass to a WR all game.

And did you just use a preseason game as a counter? And even then, it'd still be an outlier... an exception to the rule.

yes i did use a preseason game. what they go out there to just be a presence and not play? what have we learned from our pre season game? every game is treated like the last game your going to play if your trying to make a roster spot, you think san fran won't cut ties with players if they don't perform? Imo only draft picks and starters are safe and even that a stretch some times. RB's are needed in this league i hate when people try to devalue a position cause of a trend; so 4 teams have QB's with over 4500 yards... "put a fork in the RB they're not needed?" so whats the point of drafting wilson at 32 should of wen't with a pass catching TE, more WR's ( lets mimic GB ) or a mauling O-Line; that just crazy to me. trends come and go, this can be the year where RB's are leading the way, if the league see's just two or even just one RB with 2000+ yards trust me thats going to be the talk going into draft season, you need a RB late in the season to pound the rock especially in the swirling high winds of giants stadium or any out door stadium.

giantsfan420
08-14-2012, 12:22 AM
no one is saying that a rb is not needed rainier, what is being said is that the rb position is not as important as it once was. of course u still need a rb, preferably a great one. but teams are getting by now with a committee of above avg rb's instead of the everydown workhorse.
look at the rosters, maybe 3 or 4 teams have a workhorse, everydown back. the game has evolved, or devolved on who u ask, into a more passing league. that is not disputable. itd only make sense then, that the rb's lose some value.
that said, u still need to have a running game that works. we lost jacobs and even still, ours wasnt working. hence taking wilson.

giantsfan420
08-14-2012, 12:24 AM
and look no further than last season for an example of how the running game has been devalued. we had the worst ranked run game and still won the sb. and i believe i saw a fact that the past 4 sb have had the worst ranking running games. look at some of those teams: AZ, INDY, NYG, NO, NE...

Drez
08-14-2012, 12:38 AM
no one is saying that a rb is not needed rainier, what is being said is that the rb position is not as important as it once was. of course u still need a rb, preferably a great one. but teams are getting by now with a committee of above avg rb's instead of the everydown workhorse.
look at the rosters, maybe 3 or 4 teams have a workhorse, everydown back. the game has evolved, or devolved on who u ask, into a more passing league. that is not disputable. itd only make sense then, that the rb's lose some value.
that said, u still need to have a running game that works. we lost jacobs and even still, ours wasnt working. hence taking wilson.

Well said, 420.

I'd also like to add to that that the league has evolved to the point where you need to have a decent passing game, too. The caveat to that is if you have a generational defense, a la '00 Ravens or '85 Bears. Why do you think the Niners went out and picked up Moss and Mario, as well as spending a high draft pick on WR. They also entertained getting Peyton (though that's a no brainer for 90% of the NFL).

gmen0820
08-14-2012, 12:56 AM
RB's are needed in this league i hate when people try to devalue a position cause of a trend; so 4 teams have QB's with over 4500 yards... "put a fork in the RB they're not needed?" Then it works in reverse, too. And isn't that same reverse exactly what is happening with the TE position? Graham, Gronk, Davis, Finley, take the league by storm, and now fans and analysts are clamoring that these Y TEs are the future of the league?

And yeah, when people see that QBs, and top flight X receivers, and bookends are becoming so crucial to winning teams, they are (rightfully so) heavily valued. The adverse effect comes down on other positions, like RBs, or LTs per se. Look at the Colts. Last year, whoever played QB for them was getting demolished behind that line, and just last week, we see a franchise QB in Andrew Luck poised in the pocket supplanting for the Colts surrounding cast (which was dubbed a product of P. Manning). RBs are important, but the ones that are most important are ones that make their OL, not the other way around. LTs are important, but they can be supplanted by high grade QB play.

rainierjef
08-14-2012, 02:37 AM
Well said, 420.

I'd also like to add to that that the league has evolved to the point where you need to have a decent passing game, too. The caveat to that is if you have a generational defense, a la '00 Ravens or '85 Bears. Why do you think the Niners went out and picked up Moss and Mario, as well as spending a high draft pick on WR. They also entertained getting Peyton (though that's a no brainer for 90% of the NFL).

i hear ya, i am not discrediting the passing attack that has become a significant part of scoring points on most teams, but its a fad a trend once teams catch on and start drafting, preparing, making free agent moves to deal with it, trust me its going to get shut down. Balance TC preaches this Balance, the giants are not moving away from running the ball, most teams are not going to follow suite with this passing league stuff, that's why you cannot one positions is any better than the next. cause some teams feature their Running attack some teams feature their passing attack. the niners had no receivers to begin with, that's why they went out and got moss, mario and drafted that receiver, crabtree hasn't showed anything and after crabtree who else was on that team for WR?
i am simply saying once you start thinking one position is not necessary you will soon realize in games that it is, to bring the topic back on track one poster said the LT position is not as necessary as it use to be, just to summarize. and i personally never say one position is more important than the other, i remember once in practice i played with a kid name k.nelson he *****ed and told a guard what do you do? i do most of the work on this team you can't even hold your blocks, next scrimmage play that guard let my homie hogans through a DT and he smacked the **** out of this kid in the back field. im just saying every position is necessary, and just cause a trend starts doesn't devalue the positions need, once the coaches to decide they are going to a 90/10 pass over run or run over pass ratio then i will agree with you guy maybe in that offense that position is not necessary i.e ( green bay )

rainierjef
08-14-2012, 02:52 AM
Then it works in reverse, too. And isn't that same reverse exactly what is happening with the TE position? Graham, Gronk, Davis, Finley, take the league by storm, and now fans and analysts are clamoring that these Y TEs are the future of the league?

And yeah, when people see that QBs, and top flight X receivers, and bookends are becoming so crucial to winning teams, they are (rightfully so) heavily valued. The adverse effect comes down on other positions, like RBs, or LTs per se. Look at the Colts. Last year, whoever played QB for them was getting demolished behind that line, and just last week, we see a franchise QB in Andrew Luck poised in the pocket supplanting for the Colts surrounding cast (which was dubbed a product of P. Manning). RBs are important, but the ones that are most important are ones that make their OL, not the other way around. LTs are important, but they can be supplanted by high grade QB play.

True to that a great QB can move around in the pocket or scramble out to get the ball down field if his LT sucks, but you don't want your QB running for his life on every passing play, you want to give him time no coach in his right mind is going to put a guy out there that can get their franchise QB killed.
and you have a point with the TE's, copy cat league the saints drafted graham, the packers drafted finely Pats go double TE now everyone want s to follow suite, but the years not the Double athletic TE sets is not new this has been done before then it faded now its back. its a cycle the years of the receiver (T.O in his prime, Chad johnson before ochocino and back to johnson, terry glenn remember him? steve smith panthers in his prime just to name a few, then it was the year of the runnning backs Peterson followed by CJ2k, MJD, Ray rice all followed after guys like portis, westbrook, edrin james, the Bus. just saying i know there is a trend, and teams would be setting themselves up for failure if they strengthen one aspect and let the other fall off. if GB had a running game i think they would of given us better comp not saying they would of won we was hot that game but still, we knew they didn't have much of a rushing attack, and focused on shutting down their strength, even though they did rush for 8.2 more yards than us that game lmao, but hey our rushing attack wasn't nothing to write home about either :)

ps. the QB in indy was getting crushed cause he was indecisive with the ball and held on to it too long, didn't the colts make major changes to their Oline as well?

Drez
08-14-2012, 03:43 AM
i hear ya, i am not discrediting the passing attack that has become a significant part of scoring points on most teams, but its a fad a trend once teams catch on and start drafting, preparing, making free agent moves to deal with it, trust me its going to get shut down. Balance TC preaches this Balance, the giants are not moving away from running the ball, most teams are not going to follow suite with this passing league stuff, that's why you cannot one positions is any better than the next. cause some teams feature their Running attack some teams feature their passing attack. the niners had no receivers to begin with, that's why they went out and got moss, mario and drafted that receiver, crabtree hasn't showed anything and after crabtree who else was on that team for WR?
i am simply saying once you start thinking one position is not necessary you will soon realize in games that it is, to bring the topic back on track one poster said the LT position is not as necessary as it use to be, just to summarize. and i personally never say one position is more important than the other, i remember once in practice i played with a kid name k.nelson he *****ed and told a guard what do you do? i do most of the work on this team you can't even hold your blocks, next scrimmage play that guard let my homie hogans through a DT and he smacked the **** out of this kid in the back field. im just saying every position is necessary, and just cause a trend starts doesn't devalue the positions need, once the coaches to decide they are going to a 90/10 pass over run or run over pass ratio then i will agree with you guy maybe in that offense that position is not necessary i.e ( green bay )No one is saying that any position isn't necessary, but some are more valuable than others. Right now, and with the way that the rules are currently set up, RB isn't as important (read as: devalued) than they were even 10 years ago.

rainierjef
08-14-2012, 04:02 AM
No one is saying that any position isn't necessary, but some are more valuable than others. Right now, and with the way that the rules are currently set up, RB isn't as important (read as: devalued) than they were even 10 years ago.

just gonna agree to disagree

NorwoodBlue
08-14-2012, 09:59 AM
I think Smith played RT for Dallas last year and he was very impresive as a rookie. That doesn't mean he'll translate well to LT against some fo the best speed rushers in the league. But if Demarcus Ware says he can pass block, that probably speaks volumes about the guy's ability. But he's only one guy, and we've got three or four top end pass rushers to throw at them.

Roswell777
08-14-2012, 01:19 PM
After watching the Dallas Oline play yesterday vs Oakland, I think some of those guys should be wearing question marks on their backs instead of numbers.

gmen46
08-14-2012, 02:56 PM
After watching the Dallas Oline play yesterday vs Oakland, I think some of those guys should be wearing question marks on their backs instead of numbers.

That, or an image of a turn style sewn onto front of jerseys.

Eli TO Shockey
08-14-2012, 03:07 PM
need a good to very good o line to be successful. While last years Oline wast one of the giants best they were still good to very good at times.

especially towards the end of the season. If I remember correctly, Our running game came together around week 13 or so and maintained until the superbowl.

I also worry about Beatty...his health has been a major issue. Whats the longest string of games he played? like 5? hopefully he stays healthy. It would be tragic if deihl moved back to LT.

Rat_bastich
08-14-2012, 03:09 PM
That, or an image of a turn style sewn onto front of jerseys.

Here is what I see taking place this year. The Dallas defense will probably be solid and the offense will struggle. Rob Ryan will blow his stack and there will be some finger pointing towards the offense. The locker room will implode and the Cowboys will suck it up as Jerry Jones tries to put a spin on it that everything is okay. It is going to be a Buddy Ryan-Kevin Gilbride thing all over again, but happening to the nicest folks on the planet this time instead.

Just have this funny feeling this scenario is going to play out after watching the Cowboys play the Raiders yesterday.

Ntegrase96
08-14-2012, 03:21 PM
After watching the Dallas Oline play yesterday vs Oakland, I think some of those guys should be wearing question marks on their backs instead of numbers.

Since our center last night was our 4th center (basically an emergency plan) and started snapping the ball just a few weeks ago you have a point... should probably be a question mark on his back.

Bernadeau hasn't had much work since he's been injured and Dockery is a back up working in a new scheme.

Not exactly what you should expect to be the final product.

Ntegrase96
08-14-2012, 03:24 PM
Here is what I see taking place this year. The Dallas defense will probably be solid and the offense will struggle. Rob Ryan will blow his stack and there will be some finger pointing towards the offense. The locker room will implode and the Cowboys will suck it up as Jerry Jones tries to put a spin on it that everything is okay. It is going to be a Buddy Ryan-Kevin Gilbride thing all over again, but happening to the nicest folks on the planet this time instead.

Just have this funny feeling this scenario is going to play out after watching the Cowboys play the Raiders yesterday.

Or the offense will most likely be fine just like it always is and the defense will be improved.

Think about it this way. Last years OL starters are still on the team and are under a better OL coach now. So it stands to reason they'll at least be as good as last year, if not a little better. However, those guys will most likely lose their jobs to the new interior OLmen we've picked up.

giantsfan420
08-14-2012, 05:58 PM
Or the offense will most likely be fine just like it always is and the defense will be improved.

Think about it this way. Last years OL starters are still on the team and are under a better OL coach now. So it stands to reason they'll at least be as good as last year, if not a little better. However, those guys will most likely lose their jobs to the new interior OLmen we've picked up.

didnt the romo led offense manage like one first down? i watched ur starters and romo ran for his life. u bring that weak OL on opening day and u guys might as well start orton bc romo wont make it out of the game

Ntegrase96
08-14-2012, 06:10 PM
didnt the romo led offense manage like one first down? i watched ur starters and romo ran for his life. u bring that weak OL on opening day and u guys might as well start orton bc romo wont make it out of the game

Or... ya know, you can read up a few posts and realize that they weren't exactly our starters. I agree that Romo will be in trouble if we have to trot out our 4th center for the regular season opener though.

giantsfan420
08-14-2012, 06:13 PM
i know who u got on ur OL, i know over on the cowboys board everyones a homer and actually believe backup FA's will all of the sudden be ur saving grace, but I am almost certain the cowboys have a very bad year, finish under .500, and have a decision to make about romo (bc he is going to have his worst year by far)
im not even sold on doug free. u guys have one legit guy on that line and he's a 21 yr old playing LT for the first time in the nfl

TheEnigma
08-14-2012, 06:14 PM
Romo gets a pass for that game. How is a QB supposed to have a chance when his interior line can't even get blocks on the opposing D linemen? Heck, Kelley isn't even known for being a pass rushing threat but you would assume he was Warren Sapp with the way he toyed with that Center.

giantsfan420
08-14-2012, 06:14 PM
u guys may have the worst interior OL in the league...

Ntegrase96
08-14-2012, 06:42 PM
i know who u got on ur OL, i know over on the cowboys board everyones a homer and actually believe backup FA's will all of the sudden be ur saving grace, but I am almost certain the cowboys have a very bad year, finish under .500, and have a decision to make about romo (bc he is going to have his worst year by far)
im not even sold on doug free. u guys have one legit guy on that line and he's a 21 yr old playing LT for the first time in the nfl

I think we're pretty solid at the T position. Free was much better as a RT than a LT, but you probably don't remember seeing him there. That's fine, it's not something I would expect you to have taken notice of. Interior O is, again, at least the same or better than last year because we essentially have the same guys, or ability to get the same guys (Holland, backup) as last year.

Bernadeau and Livings are bigger bodies and are competing for a starting position (they'll most likely win them). However we haven't been healthy.

Will they be great? Probably not. Will they be good enough, yes.

Ntegrase96
08-14-2012, 06:42 PM
u guys may have the worst interior OL in the league...

And you have who again?

TheEnigma
08-14-2012, 06:51 PM
No one in the NFCE really has an impressive O-line. There's some standouts but the units as a whole aren't that great. Maybe it has to do with the D-lines in this division being some of the best but who knows really.

Drez
08-14-2012, 06:55 PM
And you have who again?Boothe, Baas, and Snee > than whoever you guys have there. I honestly can't even remember any of their names, lol.

Ntegrase96
08-14-2012, 06:55 PM
No one in the NFCE really has an impressive O-line. There's some standouts but the units as a whole aren't that great. Maybe it has to do with the D-lines in this division being some of the best but who knows really.

I realized this in another thread during the offseason where we were making an All NFCE team. The NFCE has great pash rushers and not many elite players on the offensive line.

Drez
08-14-2012, 06:58 PM
I realized this in another thread during the offseason where we were making an All NFCE team. The NFCE has great pash rushers and not many elite players on the offensive line. Our division is pretty loaded with great pass rushers. Luckily for us, all you guys really have is Ware.

jomo
08-14-2012, 06:58 PM
And you have who again?Can I get back to you on that? lol

giantsfan420
08-14-2012, 07:04 PM
we have snee who has been an all pro guard. baas was a sought after FA. Beatty was a 2nd rounder. Boothe has been a pleasant surprise. we have a decent OL that can get the job done.
You guys literally have scrubs up and down that line aside from Smith. And even tho it was two years ago (a lifetime in the NFL) yes I remember when Doug Free had a decent season. Since then he's been boot

TheEnigma
08-14-2012, 07:08 PM
I mean...Snee is really the only guy on this O-line I can get excited for and that's if he returns to pre-2011 form. No one at LT impresses me and the only adequate option is injury prone. Boothe is underrated and serviceable but not great. Baas showed some ability in the playoffs but I want to see him play at that level consistently first. Right tackle is just a huge question mark at this point that is too depressing to talk about. The only O-line I'm confident in saying we are better at for sure would be the Bears.

Ntegrase96
08-14-2012, 07:13 PM
we have snee who has been an all pro guard. baas was a sought after FA. Beatty was a 2nd rounder. Boothe has been a pleasant surprise. we have a decent OL that can get the job done.
You guys literally have scrubs up and down that line aside from Smith. And even tho it was two years ago (a lifetime in the NFL) yes I remember when Doug Free had a decent season. Since then he's been boot

Oh then well good. Then you probably know he's also been playing the wrong position.

Snee is good but slowing down. But even still all of your offensive lineman had negative grades last year. Snee is the only guy you have that isn't a 'scrub' as you put it.

Seriously, neither of these lines are very good, however the Cowboys have taken steps to correcting that whereas the Giants seemingly have ignored it.

After watching film on Livings, I think you're going to be surprised at how well he'll do. I could be wrong, but I've seen this guy give Haloti Ngata absolute hell. His biggest problem is that he's inconsistent. Something I think Bill Callahan can help him out with. After all, both Livings and Bernadeau are prototypical callahan kind of guards (think Carl Nicks).

Ntegrase96
08-14-2012, 07:18 PM
Our division is pretty loaded with great pass rushers. Luckily for us, all you guys really have is Ware.

You have a point. Ware is the only elite pass rusher on the team. However, now that our CBs will most likely be able to cover for more than .5 seconds, I think our sack totals will jump (even though they were not bad last year... still top 10).

Spencer, believe it or not is a top 5 OLB. It shocked the hell out of me when I looked at the stats, but he seriously is. Crawford has been making noise at DE, Hatcher had a great season at DE, and Lissemore is one of the more effective pass rushers at the 5 technique.

I think these guys will be able to put the pressure on if the DBs give them more than the blink of an eye. But it remains to be seen.

Ntegrase96
08-14-2012, 07:20 PM
Can I get back to you on that? lol

Should have taken Silatolu with that 1st rounder, my friend.

Reese made a pretty good pick with Wilson though so I guess it's all good for you guys.

gmen46
08-14-2012, 08:28 PM
Or the offense will most likely be fine just like it always is and the defense will be improved.

Think about it this way. Last years OL starters are still on the team and are under a better OL coach now. So it stands to reason they'll at least be as good as last year, if not a little better. However, those guys will most likely lose their jobs to the new interior OLmen we've picked up.

C'mon, nt96, you gotta admit Rat_bastich has a funny point about your boy rob ryan--




http://youtu.be/bPK3cDl7Ftw

giantsfan420
08-14-2012, 08:49 PM
Oh then well good. Then you probably know he's also been playing the wrong position.

Snee is good but slowing down. But even still all of your offensive lineman had negative grades last year. Snee is the only guy you have that isn't a 'scrub' as you put it.

Seriously, neither of these lines are very good, however the Cowboys have taken steps to correcting that whereas the Giants seemingly have ignored it.

After watching film on Livings, I think you're going to be surprised at how well he'll do. I could be wrong, but I've seen this guy give Haloti Ngata absolute hell. His biggest problem is that he's inconsistent. Something I think Bill Callahan can help him out with. After all, both Livings and Bernadeau are prototypical callahan kind of guards (think Carl Nicks).

well theres on huge point u failed to acknowledge;

while our OL is decent at best, our QB made up for their deficiencies on the way to a 2nd SB title in 4 years. Whatever improvements are made, its to the OL that was on the SB winning team.

Whereas, you guys, literally did nothing to improve ur OL (i dont consider FA backups as solutions. if they are, then we are set with Lockler who we signed who actually has been a quality starter in this league just last year.) and thats the OL of a .500 team and perennial disappointment.

i still like our OL compared to yours. I know as fans we ignore things that are evident of a bad team, but ur interior OL is garbage granola. but what compounds that is you dont have a qb capable of overcoming that...we do.

giantsfan420
08-14-2012, 08:56 PM
You have a point. Ware is the only elite pass rusher on the team. However, now that our CBs will most likely be able to cover for more than .5 seconds, I think our sack totals will jump (even though they were not bad last year... still top 10).

Spencer, believe it or not is a top 5 OLB. It shocked the hell out of me when I looked at the stats, but he seriously is. Crawford has been making noise at DE, Hatcher had a great season at DE, and Lissemore is one of the more effective pass rushers at the 5 technique.

I think these guys will be able to put the pressure on if the DBs give them more than the blink of an eye. But it remains to be seen.

lmao. when these boards were being implemented, i created a giggles account over at the cowboys boards and i swear, i never have seen a MB full of so many homers. here, homers are often criticized. with ur guys boards, homers run the asylum...
which is why i lmao reading ur post. whatever u got to tell urself to sleep at night.
MC is suffering from what Prince faced last year which is no offseason. MC is not giving u guys nada this year imho. sure, he'll flash now and then, but he will not be ready for the nfl. guys been a corner for two years of his life. he was a wr and LSU converted him. no way he'll be effective this season.

i also believe Carr is one of the most overrated players in the league. he played in a division that had zero legit wr's, aside from Jackson who missed a season holding out and another injured. KC also didnt have this great defense that he was the center piece of...teams attacked KC successfully through the ground and air, meaning teams didnt have to throw it to beat KC. Carr also plays small imho.

If u guys are thinking ur secondary is gonna be fine, ur sadly mistaken. ur best corner is on the trade block/holding out.

everything from Spencer being a top 5 olb on is just pure delusion. stats or no stats, ur telling me spencer comes anywhere close to getting the job done? guys invisible on the field at least vs us...

ur team has some serious serious issues...

shockeyisjesus
08-15-2012, 05:41 AM
The great thing here is that Tyron Smith can't simultaneously play LT and RT... which means that he can't stop Tuck JPP and Osi all at the same time.

Bingo. Smith may be a solid player, but he's still only a second year guy, they are starting a 4th string center and the rest of the line is nothing special.

But what it really all comes down to is that Romo is still Romo.....he'll choke when it matters, like when he missed a wide open WR that would have clinched the division against us and Eli will make the big plays when it matters.

The Cowgirls are the third most talented team in the division. They have huge question marks all over their defense. Their are big time rumors that appear to be more than just speculation that Claiborne is soft as toilet paper and their secondary, despite all the hoopla about them, in fact hasn't improved a bit from last year and can still be exploited big time.

I'm more worried about the Eagles than the Cowgirls. Yeah, Vick still sucks and Jackson is still a baby but they'll have a healthy Lesean McCoy but honestly, I think their defense is going to be sick. They have been absolutely loading up on that side of the ball for 3 or 4 straight drafts and this season that defense could really wreak some havoc.

Eli is going to have to play mistake free against those boys because they are not just going to be talented this year, something tells me they will be motivated too with the death of Reid's son and all that. Yeah, it's a little bit out of bounds or whatever, but don't discount that "playing for something bigger than us" motivation. It can do wonders for a team. And if any team ever needed something to bring a bunch of disjointed donkeys together it was the Eagles.

They worry me greatly this year. The Cowgirls not so much.

But with all that said, we are the defending world champions for a reason. We have the most talent of ANYONE in the division provided we stay healthy and can keep guys like Nicks, Austin, Canty, Beatty, Amukamara, TT etc. all on the field (they are already banged up and it's only the freaking preseason!) we should be able to play, compete and be in every single game all season long. We won't win em all, but we should have a shot. Continuity is important, experience is important and health is important. Right now we have 2 of the 3 in spades. We stay healthy this year and we will be back in the playoffs. Period. Regardless of what the Cowgirls or Egirls do or say.

shockeyisjesus
08-15-2012, 05:50 AM
Oh then well good. Then you probably know he's also been playing the wrong position.

Snee is good but slowing down. But even still all of your offensive lineman had negative grades last year. Snee is the only guy you have that isn't a 'scrub' as you put it.

Seriously, neither of these lines are very good, however the Cowboys have taken steps to correcting that whereas the Giants seemingly have ignored it.

After watching film on Livings, I think you're going to be surprised at how well he'll do. I could be wrong, but I've seen this guy give Haloti Ngata absolute hell. His biggest problem is that he's inconsistent. Something I think Bill Callahan can help him out with. After all, both Livings and Bernadeau are prototypical callahan kind of guards (think Carl Nicks).

We won the super bowl with that terrible line. So even if they continue to stink, guess what, we can STILL WIN THE SUPER BOWL WITH A BAD LINE. And if they get better???? With a healthy Beatty and a training camp for guys to learn their positions unlike last year when we had to throw guys in head first after injuries banged up our line and guys had no reps at some of the positions they were playing. You don't think that could have SOME impact on us improving???

But again, we won the SB with that "crap line". Your fat losers sat at home and watched us win the SB. Your line is a bunch of bums and one young buck with some potential but certainly isn't an All-Pro yet by any means.

We'll see real soon who's line gets the better of who.

G.I. Ants
08-15-2012, 06:32 AM
Between the experience & speed of Osi and the freak of nature that is JPP, Smith will have his hands full against the bet d-line in the league (yeah I said it, the best d-line in the league). Look forward to the match-ups.

Ntegrase96
08-15-2012, 10:05 AM
well theres on huge point u failed to acknowledge;

while our OL is decent at best, our QB made up for their deficiencies on the way to a 2nd SB title in 4 years. Whatever improvements are made, its to the OL that was on the SB winning team.

Whereas, you guys, literally did nothing to improve ur OL (i dont consider FA backups as solutions. if they are, then we are set with Lockler who we signed who actually has been a quality starter in this league just last year.) and thats the OL of a .500 team and perennial disappointment.

i still like our OL compared to yours. I know as fans we ignore things that are evident of a bad team, but ur interior OL is garbage granola. but what compounds that is you dont have a qb capable of overcoming that...we do.

Well look at that...

I'd rather respond to Giantsfan420 than the other guy saying the exact same thing. Never thought I'd see the day. Guess you're growing on me gf420.

Hey, you have a point. I'm not going to deny what Eli did with a pathetic line isn't impressive. Am I'm not saying that the Giants can't overcome a bad offensive line. However, I just don't think your offensive line is any better than the Cowboys'.

If you feel content with the line you have, that's fine. I feel content with ours for the time being, seeing how they were adequate last year. Can they improve? Absolutely. By far. But I don't think they were a priority over our absolutely porous secondary. Our biggest issue was losing games in which we had a lead in the final 2 minutes last year was related to pass defense.

I think the cap sanctions that we had to endure were the biggest reason we were not able to land G Carl Nicks or G Ben Grubbs or C Chris Meyers and shore up both the OL and secondary. So for the time being I like where our secondary is and we'll probably fix the OL next year.

Ntegrase96
08-15-2012, 10:17 AM
lmao. when these boards were being implemented, i created a giggles account over at the cowboys boards and i swear, i never have seen a MB full of so many homers. here, homers are often criticized. with ur guys boards, homers run the asylum...
which is why i lmao reading ur post. whatever u got to tell urself to sleep at night.
MC is suffering from what Prince faced last year which is no offseason. MC is not giving u guys nada this year imho. sure, he'll flash now and then, but he will not be ready for the nfl. guys been a corner for two years of his life. he was a wr and LSU converted him. no way he'll be effective this season.

i also believe Carr is one of the most overrated players in the league. he played in a division that had zero legit wr's, aside from Jackson who missed a season holding out and another injured. KC also didnt have this great defense that he was the center piece of...teams attacked KC successfully through the ground and air, meaning teams didnt have to throw it to beat KC. Carr also plays small imho.

If u guys are thinking ur secondary is gonna be fine, ur sadly mistaken. ur best corner is on the trade block/holding out.

everything from Spencer being a top 5 olb on is just pure delusion. stats or no stats, ur telling me spencer comes anywhere close to getting the job done? guys invisible on the field at least vs us...

ur team has some serious serious issues...

Depends on which board you're talking about. I don't visit the main official forum. But I agree, you get a very homeristic feel on most boards when the Cowboys are doing well, but a very sky is falling type atmosphere when they aren't. It's very similar to this board... at least on Cowboyszone. The board I post at is very, very critical of the team.


I'm not discussing Carr with you again. I've already expressed my thoughts on the guy. We'll just have to wait and see how he makes the transition.

Jenkins isn't holding out at all and if he's on the trading block, it's not publicly known. His issue is that he's recovering from surgery.

I don't think I've ever expressed that I am relying on Claiborne. And he may in fact have a season similar to Amukamara last year. That's fine with me. He's most likely the 4th CB on the roster with Jenkins and Carr on the outsides and scandrick covering the slot.

Statistically, Spencer grades out as a top 5 OLB. Like I said, that shocked the hell out of me once I saw that because he hasn't made as much as an impact as we would like for him to. But I'll stick to my original thought that with a better pass defense you'll see something closer to the Spencer of 2009 when he wasn't forced into coverage as much.

GameTime
08-15-2012, 11:21 AM
Well look at that...


I think the cap sanctions that we had to endure were the biggest reason we were not able to land G Carl Nicks or G Ben Grubbs or C Chris Meyers and shore up both the OL and secondary. So for the time being I like where our secondary is and we'll probably fix the OL next year.
The biggest and most prominent reason that the Cowboys cant get it done rest soley on the shoulders of the owner. Too involved, too over bearing, thinks he knows it all, and has no idea how to motivate properly. The Cowboys will not get to back the their dynasty type ways until JJ sells the team.
He is THE problem........
Big stadiums and stupid comments before, during, and after the season do not make a successful franchise......

Ntegrase96
08-15-2012, 11:57 AM
The biggest and most prominent reason that the Cowboys cant get it done rest soley on the shoulders of the owner. Too involved, too over bearing, thinks he knows it all, and has no idea how to motivate properly. The Cowboys will not get to back the their dynasty type ways until JJ sells the team.
He is THE problem........
Big stadiums and stupid comments before, during, and after the season do not make a successful franchise......

Are you speaking of the cap sanctions directly? I do not believe that is anyone's fault so to speak. I could go on for hours about how the sanctions were completely amiss.

Outside of that, Jerry has been a huge reason that the Cowboys haven't had success since the early 90s. But over the last couple of years he's given up much of his power. Stephen is taking over and alotting most of the power to the head coach.

giantsfan420
08-15-2012, 01:42 PM
Well look at that...

I'd rather respond to Giantsfan420 than the other guy saying the exact same thing. Never thought I'd see the day. Guess you're growing on me gf420.

Hey, you have a point. I'm not going to deny what Eli did with a pathetic line isn't impressive. Am I'm not saying that the Giants can't overcome a bad offensive line. However, I just don't think your offensive line is any better than the Cowboys'.

If you feel content with the line you have, that's fine. I feel content with ours for the time being, seeing how they were adequate last year. Can they improve? Absolutely. By far. But I don't think they were a priority over our absolutely porous secondary. Our biggest issue was losing games in which we had a lead in the final 2 minutes last year was related to pass defense.

I think the cap sanctions that we had to endure were the biggest reason we were not able to land G Carl Nicks or G Ben Grubbs or C Chris Meyers and shore up both the OL and secondary. So for the time being I like where our secondary is and we'll probably fix the OL next year.

ah but there again u made a pivotal point supporting my claim. u guys "blew leads" yea i agree, but i also know from trolling on ur guys boards that to the members of that board, romo can do no wrong. it was bc of the run game and d that u guys gave up leads. well if ur interior sucks as it did last season, u honeslty believe u guys can close a game out and burn the clock by running? remember vs NE how garret showed he doesnt trust romo in pivotal situations and played it safe?

i am not content with my OL. and i doubt u are with urs. how could we be? but again, the difference, we've gotten it done with our OL. while u guys havent gotten much of anything done with urs.

(and sorry if i seem rude or disrepctful to u. im sure ur an awesme dude. its just the typical back n forth between opposing team fans)

giantsfan420
08-15-2012, 01:47 PM
Depends on which board you're talking about. I don't visit the main official forum. But I agree, you get a very homeristic feel on most boards when the Cowboys are doing well, but a very sky is falling type atmosphere when they aren't. It's very similar to this board... at least on Cowboyszone. The board I post at is very, very critical of the team.


I'm not discussing Carr with you again. I've already expressed my thoughts on the guy. We'll just have to wait and see how he makes the transition.

Jenkins isn't holding out at all and if he's on the trading block, it's not publicly known. His issue is that he's recovering from surgery.

I don't think I've ever expressed that I am relying on Claiborne. And he may in fact have a season similar to Amukamara last year. That's fine with me. He's most likely the 4th CB on the roster with Jenkins and Carr on the outsides and scandrick covering the slot.

Statistically, Spencer grades out as a top 5 OLB. Like I said, that shocked the hell out of me once I saw that because he hasn't made as much as an impact as we would like for him to. But I'll stick to my original thought that with a better pass defense you'll see something closer to the Spencer of 2009 when he wasn't forced into coverage as much.

yeah i gotta say ur way more realistic (even tho i may argue u arent lol :) ) than any of the fans i saw over on boards.dallas.com

and i respect ur opinions, i just feel that if u believe dallas is going to have a good season with a legit shot at a SB, that u are dead wrong and that objectively, i feel dallas is at best a .500 team and that the issues u guys have now (the OL, ur secondary, pass rush or lack of aside from ware, and now witten) will only compound after this season when the romo topic goes from "he's a great qb behind a bad team" to "he wasnt what we had thought and he is more of the problem than solution"...i see this season as the one that starts a descent that would rival the worst parts of the past 15 yrs

giantsfan420
08-15-2012, 01:49 PM
Are you speaking of the cap sanctions directly? I do not believe that is anyone's fault so to speak. I could go on for hours about how the sanctions were completely amiss.

Outside of that, Jerry has been a huge reason that the Cowboys haven't had success since the early 90s. But over the last couple of years he's given up much of his power. Stephen is taking over and alotting most of the power to the head coach.

i dunno. JJ gets no credit for that dynasty bc of what followed it (16 yrs of failure). i dont think he's the issue as much of his and ur FO opinions of ur personnel is severely flawed...

TroyArcher
08-15-2012, 05:48 PM
Tyron Smith
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/13/demarcus-ware-no-one-has-blocked-me-like-teammate-tyron-smith/



AND WE HAVE:

A guy who worries about what mattress he's sleeping on to get him on the field!

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/08/giants_will_beatty_returns_to.html

Sounds like Ware has lost a step. JPP will chew him up and spit him out.

TheEnigma
08-15-2012, 05:52 PM
Cowboys have better Tackles while the Giants have a better interior Oline.

giantsfan420
08-16-2012, 10:52 AM
4. The Cowboys were historically bad when they needed one yard on third and fourth down. Yet their interior line may be a bigger mess now than last year.

PFF Almanac/NFL.com

easterbeast
08-16-2012, 01:04 PM
testing to see if my sig works

easterbeast
08-16-2012, 01:26 PM
i guess it works