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View Full Version : Did anyone watch BJ run this week



appodictic
08-13-2012, 08:48 PM
4 carries 31 yards was it? SF had a ton of yards. Amazing what can happen with a good line. What do you guys think?

BigBlue1971
08-13-2012, 08:55 PM
i saw two of his runs. a short one and the long one he had. he looked good!

Carter.525
08-13-2012, 08:56 PM
looked weird in a SF jersey.. #45 looks strange on him too

gmen0820
08-13-2012, 09:15 PM
Yeah he looked really good, so did Kendall Hunter.

rainierjef
08-13-2012, 09:26 PM
sigh* i've been saying this forever, give the big guy some gap time and he runs hard and strong. BJ was never the problem it was the line, but fans and analyst need an easy way to explain why he could run as forceful as he used to so they blamed him. personally i wish we would of retained him for the extra half a mil

TheAnalyst
08-13-2012, 09:42 PM
sigh* i've been saying this forever, give the big guy some gap time and he runs hard and strong. BJ was never the problem it was the line, but fans and analyst need an easy way to explain why he could run as forceful as he used to so they blamed him. personally i wish we would of retained him for the extra half a milI keep saying the same thing. Great Olines can make any RB look great and bad Olines can make any RB look bad. Unfortunately, we have a below average oline right now, proved by our 32nd rush attack last year. Remember how great a team we had in 2008 when Jacobs and Ward had 1k yards?

GameTime
08-13-2012, 09:47 PM
4 carries 31 yards was it? SF had a ton of yards. Amazing what can happen with a good line. What do you guys think?
I think its one preseason game and Jacobs had some good carries....

so what

gmen0820
08-13-2012, 10:06 PM
personally i wish we would of retained him for the extra half a milSo he could run equally as ineffective behind our line? We need a RB to make the line, not the other way around.

GameTime
08-13-2012, 10:10 PM
sigh* i've been saying this forever, give the big guy some gap time and he runs hard and strong. BJ was never the problem it was the line, but fans and analyst need an easy way to explain why he could run as forceful as he used to so they blamed him. personally i wish we would of retained him for the extra half a mil
Its a chemistry.....cant blame the line 100%......no way...

Diamondring
08-13-2012, 10:25 PM
I predicted that him and MM will do good with the 49ers so we are going to see those predictions come out just like I have said. Watch BJ new and improve runner show you that a lot of you don't know football like you think you do. You see BJ had to change his running style a little. The tiptoe needs to happen in some plays. A rb with his style can't just think he is going to plow over defenders all of the time when they are going after his legs like defenses did when he was with the team.

gmen0820
08-13-2012, 10:35 PM
I predicted that him and MM will do good with the 49ers so we are going to see those predictions come out just like I have said. Watch BJ new and improve runner show you that a lot of you don't know football like you think you do. You see BJ had to change his running style a little. The tiptoe needs to happen in some plays. A rb with his style can't just think he is going to plow over defenders all of the time when they are going after his legs like defenses did when he was with the team.Tip toeing was just the title assigned to Jacobs having to stop his feet, and slow acceleration, in which case is never good for a RB. Anticipating the hole is very important for a RB, especially with a OL that can't sustain a block too long.

Diamondring
08-14-2012, 12:32 AM
Tip toeing was just the title assigned to Jacobs having to stop his feet, and slow acceleration, in which case is never good for a RB. Anticipating the hole is very important for a RB, especially with a OL that can't sustain a block too long.Yeah if there is a hole but in a lot of his runs, there were no holes. If he ran hard in all of those runs, then he would get injured again. Yet with his new and improve O-line with the 49ers, he will not have to tiptoe and he won't either cause BJ is still a good back and is smart to cause he knew with the Giants that the O-line was not what is use to be.

gmen0820
08-14-2012, 12:48 AM
If he ran hard in all of those runs, then he would get injured again. Yet with his new and improve O-line with the 49ers, he will not have to tiptoe and he won't either cause BJ is still a good back and is smart to cause he knew with the Giants that the O-line was not what is use to be.He also will get almost no carries, with an impressive Kendall Hunter, and Frank Gore. Let's not forget they also drafted LaMichael James who will steal touches, and Jacobs will be reserved to short yardage, which he doesn't impress me in.

Okay, he will have a new OL, but the formula is the same, make him stop his feet, and anyone can tackle a monstrosity that isn't moving.

Meanwhile, here in NY, we need a RB who can anticipate and hit the hole quickly, with square shoulders -- NOT a guy who sees a hole close and stops his feet, and doesn't have the acceleration to start them again. Wilson has that acceleration. A healthy Bradshaw has that acceleration. Jacobs doesn't. He is a build up speed guy, I don't dispute how dangerous he is in between the numbers running past 8 yards, he's filthy in that regard. There was no improv to Jacobs game towards the end. He is purely a product of the OL now, and he can be dangerous in that role in that SF.

Diamondring
08-14-2012, 01:01 AM
He also will get almost no carries, with an impressive Kendall Hunter, and Frank Gore. Let's not forget they also drafted LaMichael James who will steal touches, and Jacobs will be reserved to short yardage, which he doesn't impress me in.

Okay, he will have a new OL, but the formula is the same, make him stop his feet, and anyone can tackle a monstrosity that isn't moving.

Meanwhile, here in NY, we need a RB who can anticipate and hit the hole quickly, with square shoulders -- NOT a guy who sees a hole close and stops his feet, and doesn't have the acceleration to start them again. Wilson has that acceleration. A healthy Bradshaw has that acceleration. Jacobs doesn't. He is a build up speed guy, I don't dispute how dangerous he is in between the numbers running past 8 yards, he's filthy in that regard. There was no improv to Jacobs game towards the end. He is purely a product of the OL now, and he can be dangerous in that role in that SF.Look, my prediction is that he will do good with the 49ers and that means have success and he will do that even with the other guys coming in. Yet I guess you think that success is only him getting a thousand yards in the whole season. Well he having success can be he has a good yard per average and even some catches with the carries he gets.

Now, I have been studying football for many years and know that there are only 5 main blockers. Those blockers can only block so many men. Sometimes they will need extra help. All backs are products of the O-line even Barry Sanders. The O-line has got to take defenders away so that the back has a chance to make moves. That same O-line may not be able to provide enough protection either so sometimes the back will have to do things on his own.

Then you have football plays. Some of those plays calls for a back to run fast as he can through a hole. Yet if there is a defender around that hole and he is a good one, then most likely there is going to be a battle between the unblock player and back. No back can get short yardage on his own all of the time and the O-line still has got to block well on a good amount of them. All you need to do is study the different types of plays. I know you didn't cause your post is mechanicle. You make it seems that all plays are the same and all backs need to run hard when not all plays and blocking schemes aren't designed for smash mouth football. Even with some plays that calls for backs with styles like BJ. If there is no hole then what the back is suppose to do run and hit defenders and get hurt all of the time. BJ did that a lot with us and he said f that.

gmen0820
08-14-2012, 01:15 AM
Look, my prediction is that he will do good with the 49ers and that means have success and he will do that even with the other guys coming in. Yet I guess you think that success is only him getting a thousand yards in the whole season. Well he having success can be he has a good yard per average and even some catches with the carries he gets.

Now, I have been studying football for many years and know that there are only 5 main blockers. Those blockers can only block so many men. Sometimes they will need extra help. All backs are products of the O-line even Barry Sanders. The O-line has got to take defenders away so that the back has a chance to make moves. That same O-line may not be able to provide enough protection either so sometimes the back will have to do things on his own.

Then you have football plays. Some of those plays calls for a back to run fast as he can through a hole. Yet if there is a defender around that hole and he is a good one, then most likely there is going to be a battle between the unblock player and back. No back can get short yardage on his own all of the time and the O-line still has got to block well on a good amount of them. All you need to do is study the different types of plays. I know you didn't cause your post is mechanicle. You make it seems that all plays are the same and all backs need to run hard when not all plays and blocking schemes aren't designed for smash mouth football. Even with some plays that calls for backs with styles like BJ. If there is no hole then what the back is suppose to do run and hit defenders and get hurt all of the time. BJ did that a lot with us and he said f that.Not really getting what you are saying, because you are being pretty unclear, and ambiguous.

Here is my thought process, there are good RBs, and there are average RBs, and there are ****ty RBs. They are not an exclusive position with different rules. The best RBs are the ones that make their offensive line. This might get a little confusing, so ask me to slow down when necessary:

Most teams run a 4-3, or a 3-4. That leaves 7 men in the box to my count. Depending on the determined skill of the RB (not the OL, the RB does actually have skill, they aren't just the OL's puppet), teams will determine to drop a safety in the box. When that happens, that is called "stacking the box", or "8 men in the box" (if you're better with numbers). Jacobs is what many would call a front side runner, simply meaning that he isn't a huge threat to cut it back, so defenses play RBs (notice I said RBs, not the OL) with a safety in the RBs face, NOT the backside. So what is the picture looking like right now? Simple, 8 guys to block, and only 5-6 guys in the box blocking. RBs are ALWAYS at a numbers disadvantage, that is why it is crucial to have a RB that can make defenders miss, or break tackles on his own, to negate the numbers advantage. And we aren't even talking executed blocks. Blocks are almost never executed perfectly. All RBs need to be able to improv. Cut back runners need to threaten the whole entire offensive line with cutbacks, and front side runners need to keep their feet moving and hit holes hard.

Let me hear your studies on all the different formations, and let me act like I'm listening to groundbreaking material.

Imgrate
08-14-2012, 02:38 AM
Gwat is at it again

Diamondring
08-14-2012, 02:43 AM
Not really getting what you are saying, because you are being pretty unclear, and ambiguous.

Here is my thought process, there are good RBs, and there are average RBs, and there are ****ty RBs. They are not an exclusive position with different rules. The best RBs are the ones that make their offensive line. This might get a little confusing, so ask me to slow down when necessary:

Most teams run a 4-3, or a 3-4. That leaves 7 men in the box to my count. Depending on the determined skill of the RB (not the OL, the RB does actually have skill, they aren't just the OL's puppet), teams will determine to drop a safety in the box. When that happens, that is called "stacking the box", or "8 men in the box" (if you're better with numbers). Jacobs is what many would call a front side runner, simply meaning that he isn't a huge threat to cut it back, so defenses play RBs (notice I said RBs, not the OL) with a safety in the RBs face, NOT the backside. So what is the picture looking like right now? Simple, 8 guys to block, and only 5-6 guys in the box blocking. RBs are ALWAYS at a numbers disadvantage, that is why it is crucial to have a RB that can make defenders miss, or break tackles on his own, to negate the numbers advantage. And we aren't even talking executed blocks. Blocks are almost never executed perfectly. All RBs need to be able to improv. Cut back runners need to threaten the whole entire offensive line with cutbacks, and front side runners need to keep their feet moving and hit holes hard.

Let me hear your studies on all the different formations, and let me act like I'm listening to groundbreaking material.Look, don't make it hard for yourself. I am going to make this real simple for you. Lets take away the whole O-line and leave the back. Now do you think the back will run well without that O-line? Your post is making it seem that way. Now please answere my question.

rainierjef
08-14-2012, 02:59 AM
So he could run equally as ineffective behind our line? We need a RB to make the line, not the other way around.
if they can hold the gap for him a little longer i bet he can still plow some people over for 5-9 yd gains, that's just my opinion, the remedy to making the O-line better is not bringing in a faster RB so he can creat his own lanes, its getting a better O-line in the early rounds of the draft or in free agency.


disclaimer. i am not discrediting jerry reese's work ( reeseonite's ) save your attacks for oprah. :)

rainierjef
08-14-2012, 03:03 AM
Yeah if there is a hole but in a lot of his runs, there were no holes. If he ran hard in all of those runs, then he would get injured again. Yet with his new and improve O-line with the 49ers, he will not have to tiptoe and he won't either cause BJ is still a good back and is smart to cause he knew with the Giants that the O-line was not what is use to be.
either that or injure one of the line men in a pile up. hes a build acceleration guy he doesn't have off the line speed, he builds steam and when he lowers his frame not many want to be ready for a hit like that from him. if the line's gaps are collapsing his natural instinct is to bounce it outside improvise the gap openings.

rainierjef
08-14-2012, 03:19 AM
Not really getting what you are saying, because you are being pretty unclear, and ambiguous.

that is why it is crucial to have a RB that can make defenders miss, or break tackles on his own, to negate the numbers advantage. And we aren't even talking executed blocks. Blocks are almost never executed perfectly. All RBs need to be able to improv. Cut back runners need to threaten the whole entire offensive line with cutbacks, and front side runners need to keep their feet moving and hit holes hard.

Everything you said is accurate to degree. so i will focus on this part right here and your right, that's exactly what jacobs did broke tackles as a power back, as you stated also he is a big guy so he has to build momentum, the yards from where the RB is to where it line of scrimmage is is a good enough distance to build that momentum, but... if the D-Line is crashing the O-line and no lanes are open he will meet defenders at the line and either fall forward or backward, remember hes running through the rubble of Oline/Dline if the gaps cave in. guys pulling on his ankles legs, wrapping up his midsection while getting dragged lol other guys jumping on his back while that is happening. thats why Jacobs tried to bounce it out sometimes to avoid a measly 3 yard gain and try for something more favorable didn't always work. your O-Line has to bear some responsibility for this, its not like Jacobs wasn't the only one that couldn't produce what did bradshaw or dj Ware do last year behind this line? brashaw went from 1200 yards to half that in one year who did we lose? seubert and ohara... jacobs went from 823 to 571.

BlueSanta
08-14-2012, 06:23 AM
I still think the 49ers have a problem, although it is a good problem to have.. They have SO many good backs they are going to have to cut someone who could likely be a starter somewhere else in the league. Hunter, Gore, Jacobs, and LaMichael James.

Thats a pretty deep backfield.

fourth&forever
08-14-2012, 07:26 AM
Now, I have been studying football for many years and know that there are only 5 main blockers.
good stuff. keep it coming.
:popcorn:

Diamondring
08-14-2012, 08:13 AM
good stuff. keep it coming.
:popcorn: And I said this after I made that statement. Those blockers can only block so many men. Sometimes they will need extra help. All backs are products of the O-line even Barry Sanders. The O-line has got to take defenders away so that the back has a chance to make moves. That same O-line may not be able to provide enough protection either so sometimes the back will have to do things on his own.

gmen0820
08-14-2012, 08:48 AM
Look, don't make it hard for yourself. I am going to make this real simple for you. Lets take away the whole O-line and leave the back. Now do you think the back will run well without that O-line? Your post is making it seem that way. Now please answere my question.My answer: no. If that's what you got from my post, I don't know what to say other than, how the hell did you reach that conclusion?

NorwoodBlue
08-14-2012, 09:45 AM
Here we go blaming all of the problems with the running game last year on the O-line. Do you remember how many times Jacobs stopped in the backfield when all he needed was to put his shoulder pads down and go? He got wrapped up when one guy got to his legs, and he was done. When were his carries the other night? Against first team competition?

Those who blame the o-line forget that when Bradshaw came back, and they made thier playoff run, they averaged over 100 yds/game. So, against the toughest competition they could have they averaged 100 yds/game. If I remember right, Jacobs had one good game last year, and the rest were crap. Also, the team set passing records behind that O-line. There were injuries to the O-line, and having somebody different at center every week didn't help; but the running game was drastically different when it was the Bradshaw show vs. the Jacobs/Ware show.

yoeddy
08-14-2012, 09:48 AM
Tip toeing was just the title assigned to Jacobs having to stop his feet, and slow acceleration, in which case is never good for a RB. Anticipating the hole is very important for a RB, especially with a OL that can't sustain a block too long.

Guys like Rodney Hampton and Tiki Barber were often praised for their patience in letting blocks and holes develop...not for just going at top speed all the time...

gmen0820
08-14-2012, 09:51 AM
Guys like Rodney Hampton and Tiki Barber were often praised for their patience in letting blocks and holes develop...not for just going at top speed all the time...Which is nice when you have the power of acceleration. Jacobs didn't have the liberty to stop and start 0-60 like Barber could.

GameTime
08-14-2012, 09:54 AM
what dont some of you guys get that the O-line and the RB are a unit that needs chemistry, timing, schemes, and talent. You cant have a good running game without either.....period

yoeddy
08-14-2012, 10:40 AM
Which is nice when you have the power of acceleration. Jacobs didn't have the liberty to stop and start 0-60 like Barber could.

Yes, but Hampton was one of those "quick for a guy his size" guys...definitely not a great accelerator...he was awesome at following his blockers and waiting for stuff to develop...

Nolan24
08-14-2012, 10:50 AM
i believe that it is just time for the Giants to get younger at RB. that time comes for almost every team.

I will always love Jacobs and what he did for the Giants, and I think he should be successful in SF this season, but it seems like its just time.

Diamondring
08-14-2012, 10:54 AM
My answer: no. If that's what you got from my post, I don't know what to say other than, how the hell did you reach that conclusion?I have no choice but to think the way I do when reading your post. You are going by opinions wich a lot of posters do. I go mostly by facts. There are some times when backs will give their O-linemen gifts. Why is that? Well cause they did a good job keeping their assigned defenders away from him so the back can do his thing. If the O-line does not take away defenders with blocking, then that back is not going anywhere. Have you seen a defender tackle a back from behind the line with a big lost? I know you have seen this. It happens a good amount of times. Well that shows you that the O-line blocks help the back. If there are no blockers, then the back will never be able to run cause there would be too many defenders more than the back can handle.

Backs can't beat too many defenders in front of him so the O-line takes some of them away especially the front no matter if it is in the 43 or the 34, the O-linemen takes defenders away so the back can use his talent. Again use his talent. If the O-line provides nothing, that back will do nothing but get hit. My friend told me that when he was playing, his O-line didn't block for him and he got killed back there. The defense hit him so hard that he quit playing.

BeatYale
08-14-2012, 11:23 AM
I predicted that him and MM will do good with the 49ers so we are going to see those predictions come out just like I have said. Watch BJ new and improve runner show you that a lot of you don't know football like you think you do. You see BJ had to change his running style a little. The tiptoe needs to happen in some plays. A rb with his style can't just think he is going to plow over defenders all of the time when they are going after his legs like defenses did when he was with the team.

No one here knows football because they disagree with a ball carrier killing his forward momentum in backfield, by shuffling his feet and hesitating around the LOS, being counter productive while dozens of smaller RB's in the league run with more certainty and power than him even though they are significantly smaller?

It got to a point where Jacobs simply couldn't get out of his own way. Lets not forget him vowing to improve his numbers or else he'd retire - now that was classic! You probably think of it as him having fire or passion, but in reality it's him being an idiot. No player should say something like that to the media.

I don't hate the guy, heck I wouldn't want to be a power RB either - too much wear and tear on your body and being tall just makes it worse. He probably takes more shots to his upper thighs and knees more than most people in the league, even his hands because he runs upright and defenders like to try to put their helmet on the ball to try to knock it out.

The OLine excuse works both ways. Maybe they were masking his weaknesses. If you rewatch some of those old games when we had a top rushing attack we had a lot of big plays where the ball carrier would go virtually untouched through the LOS and into the second level of the defense and sometimes the third level. Even back then we couldn't really run whenever we wanted to, our rushing average was high, but it was inflated by big plays. We couldn't really consistently make our way upfield by chipping away at the defense with our rushing attack like the Steelers of the past.

rainierjef
08-14-2012, 12:47 PM
Here we go blaming all of the problems with the running game last year on the O-line. Do you remember how many times Jacobs stopped in the backfield when all he needed was to put his shoulder pads down and go? He got wrapped up when one guy got to his legs, and he was done. When were his carries the other night? Against first team competition?

Those who blame the o-line forget that when Bradshaw came back, and they made thier playoff run, they averaged over 100 yds/game. So, against the toughest competition they could have they averaged 100 yds/game. If I remember right, Jacobs had one good game last year, and the rest were crap. Also, the team set passing records behind that O-line. There were injuries to the O-line, and having somebody different at center every week didn't help; but the running game was drastically different when it was the Bradshaw show vs. the Jacobs/Ware show.

bradshaws production significantly dropped last year, Jacobs production significantly dropped last year. if the line is not creating and keeping holes open the running back is going to get stopped in the backfield, they are going to have to tip toe so to say to get to the open lanes instead of taking a loss of yards. the giants knew he wasn't a cut back runner when they got him, at that time they had the line that was able to create openings for him and he took advantage. the teams set passing records cause eli has good pocket presence, do you remember the 49ers game that was all eli man... just sayin

rainierjef
08-14-2012, 12:51 PM
the best answer to this is to wait and see, what this line does for the running game this year. we have two smaller faster backs lets see what happens. for those that think the Line has no responsibility to the running game for ANY type of back then i don't know whatelse to say and i'm just going to leave you to your own thoughts on that.

Weygand
08-14-2012, 12:56 PM
Well the 9ers line wasn't bad last year and Jacobs certainly looked good, but I really think their offense is better with Gore and Hunter splitting time. But I don't see an OC not finding a way to work Jacobs in. They may throw to Jacobs more than the Giants did as Jacobs with the ball running free in a secondary isn't something a lot of teams want to see.

Giants vs 4th and 9ers will be the marquis matchup of the first half of the season and the 9ers have really improved at wide receiver :-)

Weygand
08-14-2012, 01:04 PM
How much congestion on the web is being caused by your autosig?

yoeddy
08-14-2012, 01:10 PM
I seem to remember that our running game looked a lot better when David Baas was out of the game...

rainierjef
08-14-2012, 01:12 PM
How much congestion on the web is being caused by your autosig?
what do you mean?
the size? i tried to re-size it three times and reload it it always gets loaded at the original size.

pacco_diablo
08-14-2012, 01:26 PM
I will say this about Jacobs. He was leader. He came out before the SB and said that he was going to play like a madman, which he did. He ran very hard during that game. I wish we could have kept him here but if I had to choose between him and Bradshaw, I'd still have to go with Bradshaw. I just hope that we dont have to see him in the playoffs. He's a guy who likes to play with a chip on his shoulder.

Weygand
08-14-2012, 01:28 PM
what do you mean?
the size? i tried to re-size it three times and reload it it always gets loaded at the original size.

I was half kidding. :-)

miked1958
08-14-2012, 02:47 PM
I think its one preseason game and Jacobs had some good carries....

so whatWell i think 25 or so came on that one romp down right sideline. that means he did his normal get the ball and fall down on the other 3

GameTime
08-14-2012, 03:35 PM
Well i think 25 or so came on that one romp down right sideline. that means he did his normal get the ball and fall down on the other 3
we've all seen Jacobs have good runs. He will do well in SF. His time here is done. The Giants have moved on.
What did you expect him to suck???

davepc
08-14-2012, 04:31 PM
Wake me up when he does it in the regular season game in and game out.

buster55
08-14-2012, 07:08 PM
Jacobs had some productive years and made his fair share of big plays, BUT I hate to say it I will remember him most for not picking up a yard when we needed it and getting taken down by shoestring tackles in recent years.

Diamondring
08-14-2012, 07:41 PM
Wake me up when he does it in the regular season game in and game out.

He will cause he wants that money and he was improving his running when the Giants O-line was not that good in run blocking last year. Look at what he has done in the year 010 he had a 5.6 average and 823 yards and last year, he had only 3.8 yards per carry. That is a drop off but I've seen backs get over 1,000 yrds per carry with a 3.8 average.

yoeddy
08-14-2012, 07:47 PM
Jacobs had some productive years and made his fair share of big plays, BUT I hate to say it I will remember him most for not picking up a yard when we needed it and getting taken down by shoestring tackles in recent years.

I'll remember him for trucking Landry, Woodson, Urlacher, Bruschi, etc...

buster55
08-14-2012, 07:53 PM
Too few of those in recent years. His size he should have had more short yardage first downs.

MattyD21
08-14-2012, 10:54 PM
He ran straight to the outside , thats what we didnt want him doing