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View Full Version : Giants' hot topic: Sure it's sour grapes, but do they have a point?



RoanokeFan
08-14-2012, 03:49 PM
LINK
(http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/08/giants_hot_topic_simply_sour_g.html)
Excerpt: "First it was star linebacker Clay Matthews saying the Packers (http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/08/justin_tuck_contests_clay_matt.html) "beat ourselves" and handed the Giants the playoff win last season. Now it's safetyDonte Whitner saying the 49ers (http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/08/osi_umenyiora_justin_tuck_resp.html) let last season's NFC Championship "slip through our fingers."
Justin Tuck and Osi Umenyiora have been laughing it off, calling it sour grapes on the part of the Packers and 49ers players. One thing's for sure: You certainly aren't hearing anyone from the Falcons saying they handed the Giants the NFC wild-card game last season after the beatdown Big Blue delivered in that game.But what's up with Matthews and Whitner making these comments eight months later? Surely you can remember how those two games played out. If not, here's a reminder on the Packers game (http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/01/giants_beat_green_bay_packers.html) and here's one on the 49ers game." Read more... (http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/01/giants_edge_49ers_20-17_as_law.html)

TheAnalyst
08-14-2012, 03:55 PM
Ok, we get it. We lucked our way to 2 superbowl championships. Maybe we will do it again this season.

GameTime
08-14-2012, 03:57 PM
hmmm. I always have issues with this luck stuff....
Was it lucky that Pack's WR sucked that day or was it just poor play? Was Osi "lucky" to strip sack Rodgers AND knock the fumble away from the olineman so the Giants could recover? Was it lucky the Niners muffed two punts or was it just poor play by the return guy??
Either way....EVERY playoff run and championship win is laced with some good bounces and luck. However it has more to do with great coaching and great playing.
**** the rest the Giants are currently the Best!!!!

TrueBlue@NYC
08-14-2012, 04:00 PM
Its is sour grapes on the Packers' and 49ers players parts. The GB game wasn't even close so Matthews should even be saying anything. And I dont understand how people thing the 49ers were playing better than the Giants that game when the Giants had more yardage, more 1st downs, better TOP, better turnover ratio and made more explosive plays.

The 49ers defense was greta that day, but so was the Giants. And that second fumble was bound to happen. It was a wet, slick field. TC rcognized this and told Ross to go down as soon as defenders were near him. 49ers gambled with that all day trying to get a big return and it blew up in their faces. That's called strategy creating luck.

RoanokeFan
08-14-2012, 04:00 PM
Think back to the Eagles game that we had "won handily" except for the last 7+ minutes where we seemd to have forgotten there was a game on. Many, MANY people here, me included, lamented that we had given that game away. It's no different than what those players are saying. Of course, the passage of time should have put this on the back burner.

yoeddy
08-14-2012, 04:08 PM
Regarding the 49ers game, I believe that to be a Coughlin-outcoaches-Harbaugh win. Many 49ers fans say "if we had our regular KR/PR healthy, Kyle Williams never gets on the field to make those 2 fumbles". But it came down to coaching...Coughlin, knowing that they couldn't afford a mistake, instructed the Giants' KR/PR to prioritize ball security...you could see it in the way they field kicks/punts, going down with both hands on the ball at even the nearest sign of contact. Kyle Williams, however, approached every return trying to make a big play...he did it enough times where you knew that Harbaugh likely told him to try to make a play...not a smart thing to do with your backup KR/PR in a big game like this.

Regarding the Packers game, I think that the Packers were stupid to give the game away...they should have been smarter... :-)

GameTime
08-14-2012, 04:08 PM
Think back to the Eagles game that we had "won handily" except for the last 7+ minutes where we seemd to have forgotten there was a game on. Many, MANY people here, me included, lamented that we had given that game away. It's no different than what those players are saying. Of course, the passage of time should have put this on the back burner.
on that same note I guess the Pack was LUCKY the Giants lost that game because that put them in playoffs and then the ultimate SB champs...
oh yeah the Pack were 9 and 7 that season too.....

RoanokeFan
08-14-2012, 04:18 PM
on that same note I guess the Pack was LUCKY the Giants lost that game because that put them in playoffs and then the ultimate SB champs...
oh yeah the Pack were 9 and 7 that season too.....

Sometimes it's just hard to admit defeat. Being married for a LONG time, I get that :confused:

Moke
08-14-2012, 04:20 PM
Think back to the Eagles game that we had "won handily" except for the last 7+ minutes where we seemd to have forgotten there was a game on. Many, MANY people here, me included, lamented that we had given that game away. It's no different than what those players are saying. Of course, the passage of time should have put this on the back burner.


Yepp. That's all that was needed to be said to /thread

nhpgiantsfan
08-14-2012, 04:24 PM
on that same note I guess the Pack was LUCKY the Giants lost that game because that put them in playoffs and then the ultimate SB champs...
oh yeah the Pack were 9 and 7 that season too.....
Actually that game didn't put the packers in the playoffs. The packers crushing us 45-17 the following week put them in the playoffs. And they were 10-6 that year.

gumby74
08-14-2012, 04:32 PM
Absolutely they have a point. For most the season we were a mediocre team - one that barely made the playoffs. During the regular season, the Niners and Packers "put in their work" so they say. We coasted through the season and happened to land the big prize. Sour grapes for sure, but i can't blame them. Hell, I'd feel the same way.

yoeddy
08-14-2012, 04:38 PM
Absolutely they have a point. For most the season we were a mediocre team - one that barely made the playoffs. During the regular season, the Niners and Packers "put in their work" so they say. We coasted through the season and happened to land the big prize. Sour grapes for sure, but i can't blame them. Hell, I'd feel the same way.

I think the Giants "gave away" the games they lost during the regular season...

Hakeeeem88
08-14-2012, 04:38 PM
The packers have no argument the Giants won by 17 not by 3 and not to mention the refs helped them out otherwise they would of lost by more. As far as the 49er’s go the Giants forced that fumble at the end of the game to setup the game winning field goal. I don’t see how you can call that luck?

GameTime
08-14-2012, 04:45 PM
Actually that game didn't put the packers in the playoffs. The packers crushing us 45-17 the following week put them in the playoffs. And they were 10-6 that year.

:o
oops....thanks. Thought the Gmen loss to the Eagles put the Pack in....Maybe if the Giants won they would have been out for sure.....
that could be it....

GameTime
08-14-2012, 04:46 PM
Sometimes it's just hard to admit defeat. Being married for a LONG time, I get that :confused:

nice....I feel ur pain brother.....

TheEnigma
08-14-2012, 04:53 PM
Ok, we get it. We lucked our way to 2 superbowl championships. Maybe we will do it again this season.

I like this comment. This should be something all Giants fans say to people who claim that the Giants have been lucky in recent years. Embrace the hate!

gmen46
08-14-2012, 05:20 PM
Think back to the Eagles game that we had "won handily" except for the last 7+ minutes where we seemd to have forgotten there was a game on. Many, MANY people here, me included, lamented that we had given that game away. It's no different than what those players are saying. Of course, the passage of time should have put this on the back burner.

To be fair, though, there is one little difference between the Eagles game and the Packers & 49ers games. In that Eagles game, Giants dominated the Eagles for 3 1/2 quarters. Dominated.

The packers game was more even until the hail mary pass to Nicks as the half expired. That play, in my opinion (some Giants players said as much after the game, as well) definitely broke their back and they never recovered the second half. So we won that game going away.

The Niners game was definitely played toe-to-toe the entire game. Neither team dominated at any time, right to the end. As such, that game was destined to finish as a game where one team "handed" the other team a victory. Or, where one team "stole" the victory from the other. That game was the definition of a great competitive game played by 2 champions. Only one team can win, and we did. Most fortunately, we made it count by defeating the Patriots in the next game. Can the Niners legitimately claim that they would have a guaranteed win if they made it to the SB?

That Eagles melt down game in 2010 was an entirely different matter. We did, in fact, give that game away.

jomo
08-14-2012, 05:35 PM
I'd rather be lucky than good. ;)

FIFTY6G-MAN
08-14-2012, 05:59 PM
I am so tired of The SLACKERS crying a river about last season against us. They had Major help by way of the Refs both times we played them and when it came down to crunchtime they folded! We are the Defending Super Bowl Champions for this year. Enough already with sour grapes and lets play the 2012 football season. We should be mad as hell about the schedule but that's the way it is and cant be changed just like them getting knocked out of the playoffs by us.

giantsfan420
08-14-2012, 06:10 PM
wait, so we should be able to say that we gave the game away after every loss then. if u subscribe to mathews theory, then when does any team truly win or lose? the diff between winning and losing is almost always a turnover or mistake, so now when teams make them and lose, they can just pull the "we gave it away"...

now i know that teams can hand the game over with stupid penalties and mistakes, guess whose fault that is? its not like the packers and 9ers werent trying their damdest to win....

and besides, we are the only team who beats ourselves, no one ever really beats us anyways :)

RoanokeFan
08-14-2012, 06:11 PM
I like this comment. This should be something all Giants fans say to people who claim that the Giants have been lucky in recent years. Embrace the hate!

The only thing to say is what was the score. Seriously, let them say whatever they want, it won't change history.

RoanokeFan
08-14-2012, 06:14 PM
I'd rather be lucky than good. ;)

Out of all the stat columns, there are only two that matter: "W" and "L"

jomo
08-14-2012, 06:17 PM
Out of all the stat columns, there are only two that matter: "W" and "L"..............at the end of the day...........thank you!

rainierjef
08-14-2012, 06:24 PM
And?!?!

the pats got lucky that ravens receiver drop the ball in the end zone.
Tebow got lucky that the steeler stacked the box thinking he was going to run when acutally the play was a pass
the Niner's got lucky that V.Davis didn't drop that ball against the saints
ravens got lucky that Matt schaubb wasn't playing that playoff game,T.J yates had what? 3 interceptions
the packers got lucky they had the refs in their pocket... wait that didn't work.

this luck thing is stupid; any losing fan's or rival fans initial excuse is luck. how lucky can you be to go on a 6 game winning streak thats just ridiculous the odds are astronomical for a team to just get luck on every play for 60 minutes for 6 games in hig pressure situations like play offs and super bowl. the odds just dont compute.

Eli played his *** off, gets no respect! fine... whats new
the defense finally woke up and played together, their the reason we won it all, where were they ranked last year?
the Running game finally found its life behind a shaky O-Line, where were they ranked last year?
the only constant are the receivers.
LUCK folks all luck, we were lucky to be in the playoffs, we were lucky to be in the superbowl and win, were lucky to have a team god knows we fail in comparison to our neighbors; were lucky they dont come kick us out our of new medowland stadium.

our slogan going into the season shouldn't be ALL in or BUILD the bridge
it should be

BUILD on ALL the LUCK from last year.

smfh

jomo
08-14-2012, 06:28 PM
And?!?!

the pats got lucky that ravens receiver drop the ball in the end zone.
Tebow got luck that the steeler stacked the box thinking he was going to run when acutallythe play was a pass
the Niner's got lucky that V.Davis didn't drop that ball against the saints
ravens got lucky that Matt schaubb wasn't playing that playoff game,T.J yates had what? 3 interceptions
the packers got lucky they had the refs in their pocket... wait that didn't work.

this luck thing is stupid; any losing fan's or rival fans initial excuse is luck. how lucky can you be to go on a 6 game winning streak thats just ridiculous the odds are astronomical for a team to just get luck on every play for 60 minutes for 6 games in hig pressure situations like play offs and super bowl. the odds just dont compute.

Eli played his *** off, gets no respect! fine... whats new
the defense finally woke up and played together, their the reason we won it all, where were they ranked last year?
the Running game finally found its life behind a shaky O-Line, where were they ranked last year?
the only constant are the receivers.
LUCK folks all luck, we are luck to be in the playoffs, were lucky to be in the superbowl and win, were lucky to have a team god knows we fail in comparison to our neighbors were lucky they dont come kick out our of new medowland stadium.

our slogan going into the season shouldn't be ALL in or BUILD the bridge
it should be

BUILD on ALL the LUCK from last year.

smfhThanks for doing that!

TheEnigma
08-14-2012, 06:33 PM
And?!?!
BUILD on ALL the LUCK from last year.

smfh

I know this is just a joke but I would love if the Giants responded to all of these teams by using something like this as their new team statement. It would be absolutely hilarious.

FIFTY6G-MAN
08-14-2012, 06:45 PM
And?!?!

the pats got lucky that ravens receiver drop the ball in the end zone.
Tebow got lucky that the steeler stacked the box thinking he was going to run when acutally the play was a pass
the Niner's got lucky that V.Davis didn't drop that ball against the saints
ravens got lucky that Matt schaubb wasn't playing that playoff game,T.J yates had what? 3 interceptions
the packers got lucky they had the refs in their pocket... wait that didn't work.

this luck thing is stupid; any losing fan's or rival fans initial excuse is luck. how lucky can you be to go on a 6 game winning streak thats just ridiculous the odds are astronomical for a team to just get luck on every play for 60 minutes for 6 games in hig pressure situations like play offs and super bowl. the odds just dont compute.

Eli played his *** off, gets no respect! fine... whats new
the defense finally woke up and played together, their the reason we won it all, where were they ranked last year?
the Running game finally found its life behind a shaky O-Line, where were they ranked last year?
the only constant are the receivers.
LUCK folks all luck, we were lucky to be in the playoffs, we were lucky to be in the superbowl and win, were lucky to have a team god knows we fail in comparison to our neighbors; were lucky they dont come kick us out our of new medowland stadium.

our slogan going into the season shouldn't be ALL in or BUILD the bridge
it should be

BUILD on ALL the LUCK from last year.

smfhAnd you are LUCKY that I let you post here!!! Nice Bro!:p

btbrennan
08-14-2012, 07:00 PM
The GIANTS capitalized on the chances given to them and they didn't. I'm sorry but that's all that needs to be said. I'm sick of all this "Well if we did this then blah blah blah blah". Well if the Giants DIDN'T do what THEY needed to do. Then we would not be having this discussion. Give the Giants some credit for getting their **** done when the 49ers/Packers/Patriots DIDN'T.

ponch inda face
08-14-2012, 08:47 PM
Honestly, I think Clay's feelings were so hurt by the loss and the Giants so badly crushed his spirit in that win that he is self-medicating by trying to explain the loss away.

RoanokeFan
08-14-2012, 09:28 PM
Honestly, I think Clay's feelings were so hurt by the loss and the Giants so badly crushed his spirit in that win that he is self-medicating by trying to explain the loss away.

Send him a box of tissues :p

giantyankee1976
08-14-2012, 09:37 PM
Think back to the Eagles game that we had "won handily" except for the last 7+ minutes where we seemd to have forgotten there was a game on. Many, MANY people here, me included, lamented that we had given that game away. It's no different than what those players are saying. Of course, the passage of time should have put this on the back burner.

+1

so true.

honestly this "luck" thing has passed all levels of useless disrespect. Hopefully our guys will take offense to the remarks and play to gain respect.

in the words of the old State Property flick, "Get down or lay down."

RoanokeFan
08-14-2012, 09:48 PM
+1

so true.

honestly this "luck" thing has passed all levels of useless disrespect. Hopefully our guys will take offense to the remarks and play to gain respect.

in the words of the old State Property flick, "Get down or lay down."

As TC has said "Shut up and play."

JB456
08-14-2012, 09:50 PM
1) The Giants practically kicked the Packers teeth in in the playoffs. If it wasn't for some of the most horrific officiating I've ever seem (Eagle fans were
complaining how terrible the officiating was against us for Christ sake) the Packers would have been laughed out of the stadium.

2) The Giants 49rs was a hard fought game, no doubt but think about this: It was raining and windy and the game conditions favored the 49rs run 1st
offensive attack. If it wasn't for those conditions, I truly believe the Giants would have one a much easier game. Also, the 49rs weren't even able to move the ball at all at the end of the game. They couldn't do anything. I'm not saying Manning was moving the ball with ease but the 49rs weren't even able to pick up a 1st down by the end of the game. This nonsense about the Giants getting lucky by stripping the ball makes absolutely no sense.

In conclusion, I hope the Giants embarrass these teams when they play them. If they go up by 14 or 21, I hope they keep the pressure on and make them
feel like crap about themselves. If this happens, they will need to make more excuses and then they will look completely pathetic.

gumby74
08-14-2012, 09:59 PM
I think the Giants "gave away" the games they lost during the regular season...

It is what it is. It's all sour grapes. Just like we were sour grapes when the eagles came back from a bazillion points down to beat us.

Niners and Packers put in the work to be the top seeds. We didn't and just happened to come together at the right time. It is what it is. I love my Giants, but let's get real.

BigBlue1971
08-14-2012, 10:06 PM
what is Matthews on about? the score was 37-20....a beat down by the Giants! why doesnt he accept that fact? it can be nothing else but sour grapes.

and Whittner needs to stfu. it was his player who made the mistake the Giants just advantage of it! plain and simple. again sour grapes.

one thing they both know......WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS.......WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS......OF THA WOOOORRRRRRLLLLLLLD!

BeatYale
08-14-2012, 10:58 PM
Well they should have hung on to those bad throws if they wanted to win the game. That's football. Missed opportunities occur in every game.

I'm surprised Mathews made those comments when he had previously acknowledged the Giants win comparing our season to their Super Bowl season because of the injuries and barely squeeking into the playoffs.

Rat_bastich
08-15-2012, 04:40 AM
In every game there are breaks that go to both teams which even things out. The 49ers Kyle Williams argument doesn't work because teams on both sides line up their healthiest players and both usually suffer injuries throughout the season that changes their game plans. Alot of factors go into winning, but the major ones are will and want. The Giants wanted it more and instilled their will on the games. This is the stuff Coughlin teaches through his more disciplinarian style.

yoeddy
08-15-2012, 07:24 AM
It is what it is. It's all sour grapes. Just like we were sour grapes when the eagles came back from a bazillion points down to beat us.

Most of the people here were like "we suck" after that...they weren't saying "we are the better team". I distinctly remember people blaming Eli....


Niners and Packers put in the work to be the top seeds. We didn't and just happened to come together at the right time. It is what it is. I love my Giants, but let's get real.

What aren't we getting real about? The Giants came together at the right time and beat GB and SF in the playoffs...they didn't "beat themselves"...

SweetZombieJesus
08-15-2012, 07:52 AM
Was it lucky the Niners muffed two punts or was it just poor play by the return guy??

On the first, we were lucky that the idiot ran towards a punt he had no intention of returning.

On the second, we were lucky that the 49ers coaches did not preach BALL SECURITY (watch what Victor Cruz did when he got the ball and was in traffic, he HIT THE DECK).

GameTime
08-15-2012, 08:03 AM
On the first, we were lucky that the idiot ran towards a punt he had no intention of returning.

On the second, we were lucky that the 49ers coaches did not preach BALL SECURITY (watch what Victor Cruz did when he got the ball and was in traffic, he HIT THE DECK).
my point exactly SZJ......at what point is a poor decision during a game just that....poor play and luck. They can be interchnageable depending on what side of the outcome you are on. Bad play to muff the punt.....lucky the Giants recovered???
Either way......the sour grapes are understandable and expected...

Nolan24
08-15-2012, 11:00 AM
One thing that sore losers; be it opponents, naysayers, experts, or whatever; need to keep in mind is that "luck" and "if's & but's" work both ways.

For example, like when Pats fans say, "if Welker didn't drop that pass in the Super Bowl" (also that was a 2nd down, make the next pass on 3rd down if you want to win the SB). How about if the refs called that admitted bad Wilfork holding call then the Giants were poised to score again before halftime or at least kill the clock & not give the Pats an opportunity to score before halftime.

IF's, BUT's, LUCK, work both ways. Its not one team that gets all of the breaks and the other that doesn't get any.

Football is a violent & messy game. The ball has to bounce your way to win alot of times, thats just the way it is.

Luck is where preparation meets opportunity.

gumby74
08-15-2012, 12:57 PM
Most of the people here were like "we suck" after that...they weren't saying "we are the better team". I distinctly remember people blaming Eli....



What aren't we getting real about? The Giants came together at the right time and beat GB and SF in the playoffs...they didn't "beat themselves"...

Just addressing the point of the thread. Yes, SF and GB are sour grapes, but they also have a point. They lost to inferior team, which just happened to be playing better - that day. Anytime you lose to a team that in your mind are much better than, you're going to think that you beat yourself.

Just like when Serena Williams said it. Yeah, she was sour grapes. But because her raw skill and proven track record was much better than her opponant (holy cow that word just looked totally foreign to me), so she thought she beat herself.

JB456
08-15-2012, 01:15 PM
Just addressing the point of the thread. Yes, SF and GB are sour grapes, but they also have a point. They lost to inferior team, which just happened to be playing better - that day. Anytime you lose to a team that in your mind are much better than, you're going to think that you beat yourself.

Just like when Serena Williams said it. Yeah, she was sour grapes. But because her raw skill and proven track record was much better than her opponant (holy cow that word just looked totally foreign to me), so she thought she beat herself.

Do you really think that Greenbay and San Francisco were both much better teams than the Giants? I don't think so and here is my reasoning:

1) The Giants played both of these teams during the regular season and did the Giants get blown out in either game? No. The Greenbay game was a blown call away from a Giants win. The Giants lost the San Francisco game due to a trick play and a stumble by Victor Cruz.

2) Greenbay's defense was non existant.

3) San Francisco's offense was anemic.

4) The Giants were the most complete team that played in the playoffs. This includes offense, defense, and special teams.

5) The Giants had a tougher schedule than each of these teams.

6) The Giants suffered many more injuries than each of these teams and got healthy at the right time.

Now, I'm not saying that the Giants were much better or even better than these teams but to say Green Bay and the 49rs were much better than the Giants is simply not the case. Lucky teams who are much worse than the competition don't eliminate 6 teams in a row (I'm including the Jets here) on their way to Lombardi.

bigblue58
08-15-2012, 03:53 PM
LINK
(http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/08/giants_hot_topic_simply_sour_g.html)
Excerpt: "First it was star linebacker Clay Matthews saying the Packers (http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/08/justin_tuck_contests_clay_matt.html) "beat ourselves" and handed the Giants the playoff win last season. Now it's safetyDonte Whitner saying the 49ers (http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/08/osi_umenyiora_justin_tuck_resp.html) let last season's NFC Championship "slip through our fingers."
Justin Tuck and Osi Umenyiora have been laughing it off, calling it sour grapes on the part of the Packers and 49ers players. One thing's for sure: You certainly aren't hearing anyone from the Falcons saying they handed the Giants the NFC wild-card game last season after the beatdown Big Blue delivered in that game.But what's up with Matthews and Whitner making these comments eight months later? Surely you can remember how those two games played out. If not, here's a reminder on the Packers game (http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/01/giants_beat_green_bay_packers.html) and here's one on the 49ers game." Read more... (http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/01/giants_edge_49ers_20-17_as_law.html)


I've looked at the game many times and Bradshaw didn't fumble if you go by how the rule is written. He lost the ball only after his forward progress was stopped and he was being pushed backwards. That was the most controversial of the plays but it was the right call. There are a lot of SB plays that have been questionable over the years and nobody says boo about them. Why is it always the Giants that are the exception to that rule? The game is over...we got the trophy...time to move on sore losers.

JB456
08-15-2012, 03:58 PM
I've looked at the game many times and Bradshaw didn't fumble if you go by how the rule is written. He lost the ball only after his forward progress was stopped and he was being pushed backwards. That was the most controversial of the plays but it was the right call. There are a lot of SB plays that have been questionable over the years and nobody says boo about them. Why is it always the Giants that are the exception to that rule? The game is over...we got the trophy...time to move on sore losers.

Doesn't it even go beyond this? Didn't the Refs blow the play dead before he "fumbled"?

Hakeeeem88
08-15-2012, 04:09 PM
I know this is just a joke but I would love if the Giants responded to all of these teams by using something like this as their new team statement. It would be absolutely hilarious.

Agreed! That would be great if they did that. You know there using all the luck talk as motivation anyway

Hakeeeem88
08-15-2012, 04:16 PM
It is what it is. It's all sour grapes. Just like we were sour grapes when the eagles came back from a bazillion points down to beat us.

Niners and Packers put in the work to be the top seeds. We didn't and just happened to come together at the right time. It is what it is. I love my Giants, but let's get real.

What are you talking about? Who cares about getting the top seed? All that matters is making the playoffs doesn’t matter if it’s with 9 wins or 13. They should of “put in the work” in the playoffs because that’s when it matters most. Giants didn’t get hot they just stepped up their game in a big spot the other teams who “put in the work” for the top seed choked under the pressure that's the difference between a regular season champion and super bowl champion

gmen46
08-15-2012, 04:55 PM
What are you talking about? Who cares about getting the top seed? All that matters is making the playoffs doesn’t matter if it’s with 9 wins or 13. They should of “put in the work” in the playoffs because that’s when it matters most. Giants didn’t get hot they just stepped up their game in a big spot the other teams who “put in the work” for the top seed choked under the pressure that's the difference between a regular season champion and super bowl champion

When you're right, you're right.

And, you're right.

There's no "just happened to..." about the last 6 games.

gumby74
08-15-2012, 05:13 PM
Do you really think that Greenbay and San Francisco were both much better teams than the Giants? I don't think so and here is my reasoning:

1) The Giants played both of these teams during the regular season and did the Giants get blown out in either game? No. The Greenbay game was a blown call away from a Giants win. The Giants lost the San Francisco game due to a trick play and a stumble by Victor Cruz.

2) Greenbay's defense was non existant.

3) San Francisco's offense was anemic.

4) The Giants were the most complete team that played in the playoffs. This includes offense, defense, and special teams.

5) The Giants had a tougher schedule than each of these teams.

6) The Giants suffered many more injuries than each of these teams and got healthy at the right time.

Now, I'm not saying that the Giants were much better or even better than these teams but to say Green Bay and the 49rs were much better than the Giants is simply not the case. Lucky teams who are much worse than the competition don't eliminate 6 teams in a row (I'm including the Jets here) on their way to Lombardi.

Proof is in the pudding. We were 9-7, those GB and Niners were like what 13-3? 14-2? You are what your record is. The niners and GB put in work. We coasted. Your excuses above are just as valid as the ones used by GB/Niners - dropped passes etc.

gumby74
08-15-2012, 05:15 PM
What are you talking about? Who cares about getting the top seed? All that matters is making the playoffs doesn’t matter if it’s with 9 wins or 13. They should of “put in the work” in the playoffs because that’s when it matters most. Giants didn’t get hot they just stepped up their game in a big spot the other teams who “put in the work” for the top seed choked under the pressure that's the difference between a regular season champion and super bowl champion

That's all fine and good, but don't expect others to give us "respect" when we don't put in work during the regular season.

The season that we got the most "respect" was in 2008. We dominated the regular season. But we were one and done in the playoffs. See how it works?

rainierjef
08-15-2012, 05:19 PM
GB and niner's were much better teams than us in the regular season, then they had Bye's in the playoffs and they were not better than us in the playoffs. every team in it starts 0-0. and when we played green bay we were 1-0 then when we played SF we were 2-0

giantyankee1976
08-15-2012, 06:08 PM
GB and niner's were much better teams than us in the regular season, then they had Bye's in the playoffs and they were not better than us in the playoffs. every team in it starts 0-0. and when we played green bay we were 1-0 then when we played SF we were 2-0

that ****'s so logical no one will agree with it :sarcastic:

Captain Chaos
08-15-2012, 06:15 PM
Find it funny that this is a topic, I think the only way they stop the critics is to play the way they know they can...

Hakeeeem88
08-16-2012, 10:32 AM
That's all fine and good, but don't expect others to give us "respect" when we don't put in work during the regular season.

The season that we got the most "respect" was in 2008. We dominated the regular season. But we were one and done in the playoffs. See how it works?

You’re basically saying people would have more respect for a team that wins 13 games and loses in the playoffs then a team that wins 9 games and wins the super bowl?!? If the Giants won 10 games like the packers did the year before would that make a difference?? Other then the falcons the giants faced and beat 3 of the toughest teams in football they more than earned that championship. I think a lot of this hate goes back to people’s lack of respect for Eli a lot of people around the league still don’t think he’s a good QB and that he just gets lucky when the defense steps up in the playoffs.

giantsfan420
08-16-2012, 10:38 AM
i think that if teams wanted to complain about us, it shoulda been done before we won the sb.

we had the absolute most difficult schedule, and managed to survive it, make the playoffs and win the sb. if anything i'd think that would warrant even more respect than typical champs...

anyone going "sf was 13-3, gb 15-1, they were the better teams" is overlooking some key facts...such as injuries, strength of schedule, how we performed vs the best teams in the reg season and then the playoffs...

we overcame things that destroy a teams chance at a good season. we deserve more respect than we're getting, even from a few giants fans...

JimC
08-16-2012, 10:42 AM
I'll tell you what. I'll take every season that mirrors the 2011 season EVERY day in the week. I think all that respect stuff is bullcrap anyway. The goal every year is to win the Super Bowl and mission accomplished in 2011. And, we got some exciting football to watch in the playoffs. Damn that was fun! Do I care that there is a line of thinking that we were lucky? Not one friggin little bit. Do I care that we don't get attention in the media? Again, not one little bit. All I know is that on Super Bowl Sunday there were lots of folks watching only ONE football game and MY football team won the game. **** yeah!!!!

bigblue58
08-16-2012, 10:51 AM
Doesn't it even go beyond this? Didn't the Refs blow the play dead before he "fumbled"?

Thats absolutely correct! And the reson they blew the play dead was because his forward progress was stopped. I've watched the play on stop action, slow motion (DVR is great) and when his forward progress is stopped, he still has full possession of the ball. Anyone who thinks differently either doesn't have the game on tape, don't know the rule, or owns 49er jerseys!

gumby74
08-16-2012, 11:17 AM
i think that if teams wanted to complain about us, it shoulda been done before we won the sb.

we had the absolute most difficult schedule, and managed to survive it, make the playoffs and win the sb. if anything i'd think that would warrant even more respect than typical champs...

anyone going "sf was 13-3, gb 15-1, they were the better teams" is overlooking some key facts...such as injuries, strength of schedule, how we performed vs the best teams in the reg season and then the playoffs...

we overcame things that destroy a teams chance at a good season. we deserve more respect than we're getting, even from a few giants fans...

Are the excuses we're providing any better than the other excuses we've heard? Dropped passes, fumbles, etc? Excuses are excuses. They may be sour grapes and are cry babies, but they have every reason to feel that way. How did we feel after we lost the the eagles when the came back from like a bazillion points down? We dominated the entire game except the remaining minutes, yet we lost. Same deal. Green Baby dominated the entire season, until the final game.

The whole point of the thread was, do they have a point? The answer is yes. Are they cry babies and should shut up because they lost fair and square? Also yes.

yoeddy
08-16-2012, 11:22 AM
Proof is in the pudding. We were 9-7, those GB and Niners were like what 13-3? 14-2? You are what your record is. The niners and GB put in work. We coasted. Your excuses above are just as valid as the ones used by GB/Niners - dropped passes etc.

"We coasted"? I would say that we battled to overcome a tough schedule, injuries and integrating new players, etc to make sure that we got to the playoffs and were hitting on as many cylinders as possible as we got there. Don't see at all how that is "coasting".

gumby74
08-16-2012, 11:29 AM
You’re basically saying people would have more respect for a team that wins 13 games and loses in the playoffs then a team that wins 9 games and wins the super bowl?!? If the Giants won 10 games like the packers did the year before would that make a difference?? Other then the falcons the giants faced and beat 3 of the toughest teams in football they more than earned that championship. I think a lot of this hate goes back to people’s lack of respect for Eli a lot of people around the league still don’t think he’s a good QB and that he just gets lucky when the defense steps up in the playoffs.

That's how people tend to work. I know I do. When Seattle with a 7-9 record, beat the Saints in the playoffs a couple years ago, which team do you think commanded more respect coming into next season? It comes with consistency comes respect. Even when we won it all in 2007 and 2011 we weren't consistent. Thus, we didn't get the respect. Getting hot at the right time doesn't exactly win people over. In 2008, we were consistent. Thus, we did get the respect.

Let's face it. We were pretty terrible for a playoff team for most of the season. In 2007, we weren't exactly gang busters either.

yoeddy
08-16-2012, 11:35 AM
That's how people tend to work. I know I do. When Seattle with a 7-9 record, beat the Saints in the playoffs a couple years ago, which team do you think commanded more respect coming into next season? It comes with consistency comes respect. Even when we won it all in 2007 and 2011 we weren't consistent. Thus, we didn't get the respect. Getting hot at the right time doesn't exactly win people over. In 2008, we were consistent. Thus, we did get the respect.

Let's face it. We were pretty terrible for a playoff team for most of the season. In 2007, we weren't exactly gang busters either.

Last season, we were 6-2 going into the toughest part of our schedule. We did have a 4 game losing streak at that point, but other than the blowout by the Saints, we were close in all of those games (including being neck-and-neck against the highly-regarded Packers right up til the end despite some really controversial officiating that favored GB), and then took care of business with the Cowboys (twice) and the Jets. Other than the two Redskins games and Seattle, I wouldn't say that the team was "pretty terrible" for most of the season...

gumby74
08-16-2012, 11:36 AM
"We coasted"? I would say that we battled to overcome a tough schedule, injuries and integrating new players, etc to make sure that we got to the playoffs and were hitting on as many cylinders as possible as we got there. Don't see at all how that is "coasting".

We coasted as in we didn't win. It doesn't matter what the reason is, those other teams put in the work to get to 15-1 or whatever. It doesn't matter why we lost (injuries, etc). All people remember is that we looked very mediocre during the regular season. And that's what all this is about right? Respect, which is 100% all about perception. The only people that use excuses are the fans of the said teams. No one else really cares why. We didn't win. We didn't perform. The public doesn't care why. They just know what they see.

And that's why they have a point.

gumby74
08-16-2012, 11:48 AM
Last season, we were 6-2 going into the toughest part of our schedule. We did have a 4 game losing streak at that point, but other than the blowout by the Saints, we were close in all of those games (including being neck-and-neck against the highly-regarded Packers right up til the end despite some really controversial officiating that favored GB), and then took care of business with the Cowboys (twice) and the Jets. Other than the two Redskins games and Seattle, I wouldn't say that the team was "pretty terrible" for most of the season...

Respect is all about perception. The general public's perception doesn't care about excuses. Only the fans for the said team does. We weren't playing playoff calibre football for most of the season. That's pretty much fact.

yoeddy
08-16-2012, 12:05 PM
We coasted as in we didn't win. It doesn't matter what the reason is, those other teams put in the work to get to 15-1 or whatever. It doesn't matter why we lost (injuries, etc). All people remember is that we looked very mediocre during the regular season. And that's what all this is about right? Respect, which is 100% all about perception. The only people that use excuses are the fans of the said teams. No one else really cares why. We didn't win. We didn't perform. The public doesn't care why. They just know what they see.

And that's why they have a point.

In terms of the topic of this thread, which is about what players from GB and SF think, it's hard for me to see the reasoning from Clay Matthews given how close the regular season game was between GB and the Giants...and similarly I can't see how SF players have rationale given the close nature of the SF-Giants game in the regular season (1pt game going into the 4th quarter). Players from both teams should have known that the Giants would be a tough playoff opponent, especially with players like Tuck and Osi, who were injured or playing hurt in the regular season games, would be full strength in the playoffs. Players, different from fans and media, should know better than to look only at the season record to evaluate their opponents.

In terms of "the public", it is still a head-scratcher to me that the Giants do not get as much as respect as the Eagles (and in some camps, the Cowboys) given how much more mediocre those teams were during the regular season...especially when the Giants knocked the Cowboys out of the playoffs with head-to-head sweep down the stretch.

yoeddy
08-16-2012, 12:06 PM
Respect is all about perception. The general public's perception doesn't care about excuses. Only the fans for the said team does. We weren't playing playoff calibre football for most of the season. That's pretty much fact.

Aren't we talking about comments made by GB and SF players? The general public's perception is a completely different discussion...

JB456
08-16-2012, 12:11 PM
Proof is in the pudding. We were 9-7, those GB and Niners were like what 13-3? 14-2? You are what your record is. The niners and GB put in work. We coasted. Your excuses above are just as valid as the ones used by GB/Niners - dropped passes etc.

Hmm. If this is how you feel, what record must we have to go from scorn to respect? Is it 10 and 6, 11 and 5? So you are saying that playing half the season without your starting MLB (a rookie starting) and having a guy walk in off the street for the other half the season shouldn't figure into the equation. Your saying that losing one of your starting corners and having the corner position decimated by injuries shouldn't factor into the equation? Your saying having your best linebacker in Boley go down for a stretch as well as Tuck and Nicks (Your best DE and WR) shouldn't factor into the equation?

With all of this happening, non existant run game and a bad offensive line Manning lead the team into the playoffs. Also, Manning was the best QB that participated in the playoffs and that list included (Brees, Rodgers, Brady).

Now, to go up against all that adversity and beat tough opponent after tough opponent on the road is remarkable. If all of this doesn't warrent respect than I don't even know what to say...

giantsfan420
08-16-2012, 12:15 PM
bottom line; we got it done and won the chip. this team didnt play its best for part of the reg season, that is true. however, this team can beat any team and is one of the best teams when we are playing our brand of football.
we won vs GB and SF playing our brand and playing at a high level. its not like we won bc of bad officiating or a lucky penalty etc etc...we beat up on those teams, badly too

yoeddy
08-16-2012, 12:17 PM
Hmm. If this is how you feel, what record must we have to go from scorn to respect? Is it 10 and 6, 11 and 5? So you are saying that playing half the season without your starting MLB (a rookie starting) and having a guy walk in off the street for the other half the season shouldn't figure into the equation. Your saying that losing one of your starting corners and having the corner position decimated by injuries shouldn't factor into the equation? Your saying having your best linebacker in Boley go down for a stretch as well as Tuck and Nicks (Your best DE and WR) shouldn't factor into the equation?

With all of this happening, non existant run game and a bad offensive line Manning lead the team into the playoffs. Also, Manning was the best QB that participated in the playoffs and that list included (Brees, Rodgers, Brady).

Now, to go up against all that adversity and beat tough opponent after tough opponent on the road is remarkable. If all of this doesn't warrent respect than I don't even know what to say...

In terms of perceptions of the general public, I'll argue that most people couldn't tell you who had the best regular season record in the league for each of the last 5 years (other than perhaps the Patriots in 2007 since so much was made of their 18-1 record)...but the majority can tell you who won the Super Bowl over each of the same years...

gumby74
08-16-2012, 12:28 PM
Aren't we talking about comments made by GB and SF players? The general public's perception is a completely different discussion...

My bad, i didn't mean to derail the thread.

gumby74
08-16-2012, 12:33 PM
In terms of the topic of this thread, which is about what players from GB and SF think, it's hard for me to see the reasoning from Clay Matthews given how close the regular season game was between GB and the Giants...and similarly I can't see how SF players have rationale given the close nature of the SF-Giants game in the regular season (1pt game going into the 4th quarter). Players from both teams should have known that the Giants would be a tough playoff opponent, especially with players like Tuck and Osi, who were injured or playing hurt in the regular season games, would be full strength in the playoffs. Players, different from fans and media, should know better than to look only at the season record to evaluate their opponents.

In terms of "the public", it is still a head-scratcher to me that the Giants do not get as much as respect as the Eagles (and in some camps, the Cowboys) given how much more mediocre those teams were during the regular season...especially when the Giants knocked the Cowboys out of the playoffs with head-to-head sweep down the stretch.

Regarding what GB and SF think. It still is public perception to a degree. No one short of us nutty fans has the time to keep track of injuries, which teams played who, etc. From their perspective, I can see how they think, "We were awesome all season long. Where the heck do they get off thinking they're better? They just happened to get hot at the right time."

That's all I'm saying.

gumby74
08-16-2012, 12:37 PM
bottom line; we got it done and won the chip. this team didnt play its best for part of the reg season, that is true. however, this team can beat any team and is one of the best teams when we are playing our brand of football.
we won vs GB and SF playing our brand and playing at a high level. its not like we won bc of bad officiating or a lucky penalty etc etc...we beat up on those teams, badly too

On any given Sunday. We won fair and square. If you care about championships, you (not pointing at you specifically) care about the playoffs only. If you care about respect and all that other j***, you care about the regular season also. And imo, it's something that some don't understand. It's not so simple as to say, "We won the SB, thus we deserve respect."

That Dude
08-16-2012, 12:53 PM
There is not a team in this league that didn't have some form of luck when they won the SB. Team's are so close in skill that a "lucky" play here or there can determine a season.

I think if anything the 9er's can feel sour about how they lost, however it's a full team game and our special teams was the difference in that game.

The Packers have no right to say anything, they played their worst game of the season against us...so?? That means you weren't prepared. Plus they got roasted!! Their D was trash all season and the offense bailed them out. Everyone knew when the offense didnt show they were gonna lose a game.

People use these things as an excuse to dismiss the Giants. I keep hearing we got hot at the right time...like it's a bad thing, yet I didn't see GB get the same treatment when they got hot.

nhpgiantsfan
08-16-2012, 01:04 PM
The think with the 49er game was you kind of knew towards the end of that game that the first team to make a mistake was going to lose. Neither offense was really having success moving the ball at that point. I remember saying to my wife that this game will be determined by someone making a mistake. And I won't lie, I really thought it was going to be us that made the mistake.

Hakeeeem88
08-16-2012, 01:42 PM
That's how people tend to work. I know I do. When Seattle with a 7-9 record, beat the Saints in the playoffs a couple years ago, which team do you think commanded more respect coming into next season? It comes with consistency comes respect. Even when we won it all in 2007 and 2011 we weren't consistent. Thus, we didn't get the respect. Getting hot at the right time doesn't exactly win people over. In 2008, we were consistent. Thus, we did get the respect.

Let's face it. We were pretty terrible for a playoff team for most of the season. In 2007, we weren't exactly gang busters either.

Again it doesn’t matter how you get into the playoffs it’s what you do when you get there do you really think it’s as simple as “getting hot at the right time” during two super bowl runs? If it happens once maybe you would have a point but twice it’s more than getting hot. What kind of giants fan would prefer the 08 season over 2007 and 2011. I would say 2 super bowls in 5 years is a lot more consistent then most teams out there and deserves more respect then you and the rest of the league is giving them.

yoeddy
08-16-2012, 02:00 PM
Regarding what GB and SF think. It still is public perception to a degree. No one short of us nutty fans has the time to keep track of injuries, which teams played who, etc. From their perspective, I can see how they think, "We were awesome all season long. Where the heck do they get off thinking they're better? They just happened to get hot at the right time."

That's all I'm saying.

I guess I just don't get it then...in my experience in league sports, when we go up against a team we've played before in the playoffs, I don't look at the opponents's record; rather, I look at the last game we played against them. If I were a GB player, I'd be looking at it like "we played a nail-biter in the regular season, and they kicked our asses in the playoff rematch" rather than disrespecting my opponent. And as I said earlier in this thread, if I was on SF, I'd be more upset with Harbaugh not emphasizing ball security to my inexperienced punt returner than to disrespect my opponent...

ShakeandBake
08-16-2012, 02:52 PM
I just don't understand the reasoning behind the Packer fan accusations that our team wasn't legit because we went 9-7 in the regular season. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't they go 10-6 the year before when they won the super bowl? I guess that one extra win makes all the difference!

GameTime
08-16-2012, 03:03 PM
its all simple guys....
the Giants rarely get respected by the media or their peers. Eli is never good enough, no one wants to play for TC, they make no flashy "dream team" FA moves, they dont have Tebow of the circus that surrounds the Jets, they lose games they shoudl win, they are lucky when they win big games, etc etc.
You can analyze and scrutinize all you want. Its been that way and will prob always be that way. Maybe back in 86 and 90 the were respected more so. But that faded quickly.
IMO.....**** em all. 4 rings is ok with me.

bklyn1028
08-16-2012, 03:19 PM
Regarding the 49ers game, I believe that to be a Coughlin-outcoaches-Harbaugh win. Many 49ers fans say "if we had our regular KR/PR healthy, Kyle Williams never gets on the field to make those 2 fumbles". But it came down to coaching...Coughlin, knowing that they couldn't afford a mistake, instructed the Giants' KR/PR to prioritize ball security...you could see it in the way they field kicks/punts, going down with both hands on the ball at even the nearest sign of contact. Kyle Williams, however, approached every return trying to make a big play...he did it enough times where you knew that Harbaugh likely told him to try to make a play...not a smart thing to do with your backup KR/PR in a big game like this.

Regarding the Packers game, I think that the Packers were stupid to give the game away...they should have been smarter... :-)

Coughlin I believe said something to the effect of "This game will be decided on whoever makes the first mistake."

gmen46
08-16-2012, 04:01 PM
Coughlin I believe said something to the effect of "This game will be decided on whoever makes the first mistake."

If you think about it, though, it's whoever makes the last mistake ;)

gmen46
08-16-2012, 04:19 PM
its all simple guys....
the Giants rarely get respected by the media or their peers. Eli is never good enough, no one wants to play for TC, they make no flashy "dream team" FA moves, they dont have Tebow of the circus that surrounds the Jets, they lose games they shoudl win, they are lucky when they win big games, etc etc.
You can analyze and scrutinize all you want. Its been that way and will prob always be that way. Maybe back in 86 and 90 the were respected more so. But that faded quickly.
IMO.....**** em all. 4 rings is ok with me.

Certainly was no different after the '90 Super Bowl, at least. After the loss Bruce Smith said "the better team lost today". Can't blame him at the time. But the fact in that game was that the Belichick-Giants defense took their offense away from them that game. Bills were out coached and outplayed in their strongest part of their game. But I certainly can understand the Bills being pissed at that result.

But GB this year? They only come across as sore losing babies when the coach and a star player cry many months after the fact. Not to mention the "lesser" team followed their beat down with 2 more spectacular post season wins. I mean, they should actually be speechless after that, truth be told.