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View Full Version : Expectations for DJ Ware/David Wilson in 2012



SackingMyths
08-16-2012, 11:57 AM
I gotta admit - I've never been a fan of Ware's. To me, he's the very definition of mediocrity. Jack-of-all-trades...master of NONE.

He did look pretty impressive last Sat. vs. the Jags. But then again, if the smart move is to NOT overreact to any 1 preseason game, then I guess my opinion of him hasn't changed.

I can't escape this feeling that David Wilson will play a similar role to Bradshaw's in his rookie year: We'll want to see more of him but he'll be relegated to handling kick returns, a handful of carries and screen-type plays, but ultimately, his inferior pass protection and lack of grasp of the playbook keep AB, Ware (playing the Derrick Ward role) ahead of him.

What do you guys think?

Does Wilson's 1st round status automatically vault him into a bigger role than Bradshaw in his rookie year?

Moke
08-16-2012, 12:03 PM
Doubt it vaults him as a bigger role than Bradshaw. Bradshaw is a vet right now and there's no way Wilson's 1st round status makes him a starter over Bradshaw. I've always loved that 50-50 split (well, it wasn't technically "50-50"), so I hope to see that between Bradshaw and Wilson because we all know Bradshaw is fragile

BlueJayC
08-16-2012, 12:04 PM
I think Ware will be used in that niche 3rd Down and Long / Shotgun sets like last year.....the only carries he'll get are those draws......he's had numerous shots though.....in my opinion they should just release him and give Scott, Brown and Wilson his roles but I understand they can't because Ware and Bradshaw are the only ones with enough tenure to read and handle blitz pick-ups and protection packages.

I think Wilson, if he shows he can hold onto the ball, will see a TON of carries this year and sure up the #2 spot. But if he fumbles once or twice TC will sit him indefinitely.......I expect a lot of production out of him this year.

yoeddy
08-16-2012, 12:06 PM
I have actually always been a fan of DJ Ware, mostly disappointed with his injury track-record. Assuming he can stay healthy, I expect him to be the most reliable HB on the team this year...800+ yards, 30 catches...

ShakeandBake
08-16-2012, 12:11 PM
I have actually always been a fan of DJ Ware, mostly disappointed with his injury track-record. Assuming he can stay healthy, I expect him to be the most reliable HB on the team this year...800+ yards, 30 catches...

Was this meant to be in red?

yoeddy
08-16-2012, 12:15 PM
Was this meant to be in red?

Nope......

nhpgiantsfan
08-16-2012, 12:35 PM
I have actually always been a fan of DJ Ware, mostly disappointed with his injury track-record. Assuming he can stay healthy, I expect him to be the most reliable HB on the team this year...800+ yards, 30 catches...

800 Yards for Ware??? He won't sniff 500 yards unless Bradshaw God forbid misses a LOT of time.

ryan12
08-16-2012, 12:37 PM
Nope......

dj ware our most realible back?????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????? that was a good one

TrueBlue@NYC
08-16-2012, 12:38 PM
I expect them to find ways to get Wilson the ball this year. One way that I saw that I liked against JAC was using him on kick returns. His speed and explosiveness makes that an area where he can make an immediate impact.

I can also see him taking some carries from Bradshaw, which isn't necessarily bad since Bradshaw is more effective when splitting his carries.

However, unless he picks up the blitz pick-up very quickly, or Andre Brown somehow shows something in that area, Ware is going to remain in that role. He may not be more than average, but at least you know what you get out of him and he wont get Eli killed.

ryan12
08-16-2012, 12:45 PM
i think dj ware was better when his name was danny

GameTime
08-16-2012, 12:45 PM
the health of Bradshaw will dictate the whole rotation of the Giants RB corp this season.

Toadofsteel
08-16-2012, 12:50 PM
I liked what I saw from Ware last game, though that was against the twos. I hope that he can continue to produce like that. I'd be more than happy to eat crow at such a pleasant surprise after calling him mediocre for years...

yoeddy
08-16-2012, 12:57 PM
dj ware our most realible back?????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????? that was a good one

I think a lot of people said the same thing about Derrick Ward prior to the 2008 season...

ShakeandBake
08-16-2012, 01:16 PM
I think a lot of people said the same thing about Derrick Ward prior to the 2008 season...

Our Offensive line in 2008 was a lot stronger of a unit than it is now, which was the main reason why we had two rushers over 1000 yds that season. Ware is a serviceable back at best and is just a stopgap until our younger guys get a better grasp of the offense. The only way he gets anywhere close to 800 yards is if Bradshaw is out for an extended amount of time.

yoeddy
08-16-2012, 01:19 PM
Our Offensive line in 2008 was a lot stronger of a unit than it is now, which was the main reason why we had two rushers over 1000 yds that season..

Yes, this is why I said 800 yards, not 1000+ yards...

Mod_C
08-16-2012, 02:01 PM
I gotta admit - I've never been a fan of Ware's. To me, he's the very definition of mediocrity. Jack-of-all-trades...master of NONE.

He did look pretty impressive last Sat. vs. the Jags. But then again, if the smart move is to NOT overreact to any 1 preseason game, then I guess my opinion of him hasn't changed.

I can't escape this feeling that David Wilson will play a similar role to Bradshaw's in his rookie year: We'll want to see more of him but he'll be relegated to handling kick returns, a handful of carries and screen-type plays, but ultimately, his inferior pass protection and lack of grasp of the playbook keep AB, Ware (playing the Derrick Ward role) ahead of him.

What do you guys think?

Does Wilson's 1st round status automatically vault him into a bigger role than Bradshaw in his rookie year?


I'm a big fan of Wilson, already have his jersey, but he has to earn his spot. I was impressed wit him in the Jaguars game but when he missed his assignment for a handoff in the 4th quarter I came back to earth. I won't be surprised if he beats Bradshaw out by season's end, but I'm not counting on it just yet.

DJ Ware gets a lot of flack on here but he does have talent. Everyone seems to think every player we have has to be a "star." The coaches like Ware because he does exactly what's he's asked to do out on the field. You don't have to be a "star" to make a valuable contribution.

jomo
08-16-2012, 03:09 PM
I'm a big fan of Wilson, already have his jersey, but he has to earn his spot. I was impressed wit him in the Jaguars game but when he missed his assignment for a handoff in the 4th quarter I came back to earth. I won't be surprised if he beats Bradshaw out by season's end, but I'm not counting on it just yet.

DJ Ware gets a lot of flack on here but he does have talent. Everyone seems to think every player we have has to be a "star." The coaches like Ware because he does exactly what's he's asked to do out on the field. You don't have to be a "star" to make a valuable contribution.I agree with you as one who has been blase about Ware forever. He does do this and that reasonably well and of course, he doesn't fumble. That said, I guess my feeling is that he sets a low bar at #2. As our #3 again I am fine with him but hope that Wilson can show quickly that he won't make too many rookie mistakes. That would add a dynamic feature to our offense as ABs sub.

ShakeandBake
08-16-2012, 03:12 PM
I'm a big fan of Wilson, already have his jersey, but he has to earn his spot. I was impressed wit him in the Jaguars game but when he missed his assignment for a handoff in the 4th quarter I came back to earth. I won't be surprised if he beats Bradshaw out by season's end, but I'm not counting on it just yet.

DJ Ware gets a lot of flack on here but he does have talent. Everyone seems to think every player we have has to be a "star." The coaches like Ware because he does exactly what's he's asked to do out on the field. You don't have to be a "star" to make a valuable contribution.

Is it really too much to ask that we find a running back who can do more than pass block and not fumble the ball?

ShakeandBake
08-16-2012, 03:13 PM
Yes, this is why I said 800 yards, not 1000+ yards...

800 yards and 30 catches, yeah I don't think so

Eli TO Shockey
08-16-2012, 03:17 PM
You know, its funny how much some of us on here dislike Ware(myself included). But apparently, Jacobs and Bradshaw feel different. As much as I like wilson, i'll be happy with all the production we can get at RB, even if that means less snaps for wilson for the time being...

Mike Garafolo ‏@MikeGarafolo
Ahmad Bradshaw, Brandon Jacobs believe Giants' D.J. Ware is ready for breakout season: 6-foot, 225-pounder could...

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/08/dj_ware_needs_to_gain_more_fie.html?utm_source=twi tterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_term=%23nyg

JacobsSteamrollingCo
08-16-2012, 03:49 PM
Yes, this is why I said 800 yards, not 1000+ yards...

But in 2008, we were also a run-first team with WR talent that was far inferior to what we have now. Bradshaw and Ware churning their way to 800+ yards apiece means taking away Eli throws to Nicks, Cruz, Bennett, Randle, Beckum, Hixon...

SackingMyths
08-16-2012, 04:10 PM
Doubt it vaults him as a bigger role than Bradshaw. Bradshaw is a vet right now and there's no way Wilson's 1st round status makes him a starter over Bradshaw. I've always loved that 50-50 split (well, it wasn't technically "50-50"), so I hope to see that between Bradshaw and Wilson because we all know Bradshaw is fragile

Darn. I see how that could've been unclear. I meant that I see Wilson as having a similar rookie season to Bradshaw's rookie season, where we all see the potential, but the trust in pass protection and understanding of the playbook keep his contributions minimal early on.

Then, later in the year, Wilson would have a similar breakout game like AB did at Buffalo in his first year.

I gotta 'fess up...a lot of this is trying to figure out where to put Wilson/Ware in my FF Draft cheat sheet

yoeddy
08-16-2012, 04:30 PM
But in 2008, we were also a run-first team with WR talent that was far inferior to what we have now. Bradshaw and Ware churning their way to 800+ yards apiece means taking away Eli throws to Nicks, Cruz, Bennett, Randle, Beckum, Hixon...

We were a pass-first offense in 2011 because our defense was playing below-standard due to injuries (particularly in the secondary from pre-season). I expect our defense to be better this year, resulting in our offense getting back to TC's "balanced" philosophy. In 2008, the run/pass mix was 502/491...pretty close 50/50...much of it because our defense didn't give up a ton of points.

JSpin
08-16-2012, 04:44 PM
Hakeem Nicks 2009- 531 Snaps
Jason Pierre-Paul 2010- 409 Snaps
Prince Amukamara 2011- 144 Snaps *Injury*

Against popular belief, the Giants 1st round rookies do get quality playing time and I expect Wilson to get a LOT of playing time. Another thing that will help Wilson's case for playing time is the fact the RB is one of the quicker positions to convert from college to the pros.

Wilson 130 carries, 700 yards, and 3 TDs. 15 Catches 120 yards 0 TDs.

RoanokeFan
08-16-2012, 04:48 PM
Is it really too much to ask that we find a running back who can do more than pass block and not fumble the ball?

It's what they're taught to do in college that determines what we get. NFL ready is not where most draft prospects are when drafted. ALL running backs can "run the ball." Not many can make the reads and blitz pickups required in the NFL without some development.

yoeddy
08-16-2012, 04:54 PM
Hakeem Nicks 2009- 531 Snaps
Jason Pierre-Paul 2010- 409 Snaps
Prince Amukamara 2011- 144 Snaps *Injury*

Against popular belief, the Giants 1st round rookies do get quality playing time and I expect Wilson to get a LOT of playing time. Another thing that will help Wilson's case for playing time is the fact the RB is one of the quicker positions to convert from college to the pros.

Wilson 130 carries, 700 yards, and 3 TDs. 15 Catches 120 yards 0 TDs.

I agree that in general Giants rookies get good opportunities to play...but I doubt Prince would have got that many snaps if we didn't have so many injuries in the secondary...

Captain Chaos
08-16-2012, 07:40 PM
[QUOTE=Moke;449854]Doubt it vaults him as a bigger role than Bradshaw. Bradshaw is a vet right now and there's no way Wilson's 1st round status makes him a starter over Bradshaw. I've always loved that 50-50 split (well, it wasn't technically "50-50"), so I hope to see that between Bradshaw and Wilson because we all know Bradshaw is fragile[/QUOTE

That is until Bardshaw has to sit for a couple of games. I have a feeling that we will be seeing quite a bit of Mr Wilson this year and from what I've seen so far, that is all right by me!

ShakeandBake
08-16-2012, 08:11 PM
It's what they're taught to do in college that determines what we get. NFL ready is not where most draft prospects are when drafted. ALL running backs can "run the ball." Not many can make the reads and blitz pickups required in the NFL without some development.

Obviously, my point was that there is a large disparity between the talent level of a "star" player and DJ Ware. If Brown and Scott do not seize the opportunity for some playing time this season they're probably never going to see any down the road in a Giant uniform.

RoanokeFan
08-16-2012, 10:02 PM
Obviously, my point was that there is a large disparity between the talent level of a "star" player and DJ Ware. If Brown and Scott do not seize the opportunity for some playing time this season they're probably never going to see any down the road in a Giant uniform.

It all comes down to competition. We can think and hope all we want but, in the end, the coaches see every move these guys make. Based on that, they decide who to keep and who to jettison. You are exactly right, Brown and Scott need to do something to help their cause. Failing that, they will find themselves behind Ware and/or on the prctice squad.

Ware is reliable and they trust him to not lose the ball. In Tom Coughlin's world, that's saying something.

BigBlueAllDay
08-16-2012, 10:13 PM
Ware is a lock for the roster. It's whether he'll be the 2nd or 3rd RB. He's just too valuable to the offense in the backup RB position. Of course he might not have the athletic abilities of Bradshaw or Ware, but sometimes it's not just about having the best athletic ability available in his case.

Fan For 45 yrs
08-16-2012, 10:18 PM
David Wilson's first job is to learn how to pass block. I am sure he did very little of it in college

'45"

giantsfan420
08-16-2012, 10:38 PM
David Wilson's first job is to learn how to pass block. I am sure he did very little of it in college

'45"

actually thats not true at all. he did plenty pass blocking. its just diff in the nfl bc u got even bigger guys coming on creative blitzes. also, with how much qbs are paid, they aint putting any rb out there if theres even the slightest chance they could miss a key and let a free guy come at eli...

redeye posted a clip of wilson in the passing game/pass blocking game and i was surprised at his ability to do it...

ShakeandBake
08-16-2012, 10:55 PM
It all comes down to competition. We can think and hope all we want but, in the end, the coaches see every move these guys make. Based on that, they decide who to keep and who to jettison. You are exactly right, Brown and Scott need to do something to help their cause. Failing that, they will find themselves behind Ware and/or on the prctice squad.

Ware is reliable and they trust him to not lose the ball. In Tom Coughlin's world, that's saying something.

Absolutely, Ware has definitely been a reliable back but I expect more from our runningbacks. I guess Tiki, Bradshaw and Jacobs spoiled me.

nhpgiantsfan
08-16-2012, 11:04 PM
We were a pass-first offense in 2011 because our defense was playing below-standard due to injuries (particularly in the secondary from pre-season). I expect our defense to be better this year, resulting in our offense getting back to TC's "balanced" philosophy. In 2008, the run/pass mix was 502/491...pretty close 50/50...much of it because our defense didn't give up a ton of points.

We were a pass-first team last year because our running game was invisible. It really didn't have much to do with our defense. Unfortunately I don't expect much better from our O-line this year.

nhpgiantsfan
08-16-2012, 11:06 PM
Hakeem Nicks 2009- 531 Snaps
Jason Pierre-Paul 2010- 409 Snaps
Prince Amukamara 2011- 144 Snaps *Injury*

Against popular belief, the Giants 1st round rookies do get quality playing time and I expect Wilson to get a LOT of playing time. Another thing that will help Wilson's case for playing time is the fact the RB is one of the quicker positions to convert from college to the pros.

Wilson 130 carries, 700 yards, and 3 TDs. 15 Catches 120 yards 0 TDs.

How many of those first rounders that you mentioned were asked to protect "The Franchise"? If you remember in 2007 Bradshaw was very rarely used. It wasnt until the Buffalo game in December that Bradshaw started getting consistent carries.

JSpin
08-16-2012, 11:21 PM
How many of those first rounders that you mentioned were asked to protect "The Franchise"? If you remember in 2007 Bradshaw was very rarely used. It wasnt until the Buffalo game in December that Bradshaw started getting consistent carries.

Bradshaw was a 7TH ROUND PICK. Totally different situation.

yoeddy
08-16-2012, 11:41 PM
Absolutely, Ware has definitely been a reliable back but I expect more from our runningbacks. I guess Tiki, Bradshaw and Jacobs spoiled me.

Ironically, Ward was the most versatile and reliable...

nhpgiantsfan
08-16-2012, 11:45 PM
Bradshaw was a 7TH ROUND PICK. Totally different situation.

I still don't think it matters. Wilson will not see consistent playing time until TC trusts him to protect Eli.

ShakeandBake
08-17-2012, 12:24 AM
Ironically, Ward was the most versatile and reliable...

You're entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong you may be :)

yoeddy
08-17-2012, 09:13 AM
You're entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong you may be :)

In 2008, Ward had 1025 yards rushing (on 182 attempts) and 384 receiving (on 41 receptions) as the 2nd string HB. You'd be hard-pressed to find a season where Jacobs or Bradshaw put those kinds of Yards-from-scrimmage numbers, and neither has come close to the combined yards/attempt in a single season.

ShakeandBake
08-17-2012, 11:31 AM
In 2008, Ward had 1025 yards rushing (on 182 attempts) and 384 receiving (on 41 receptions) as the 2nd string HB. You'd be hard-pressed to find a season where Jacobs or Bradshaw put those kinds of Yards-from-scrimmage numbers, and neither has come close to the combined yards/attempt in a single season.

Why do you keep bringing up 2008 when I was referring to the entire careers of these players(hint: Tiki didn't play here in '08). How can you call Ward a reliable back when he played one full season his entire career here, in his other years here the most games he played in a season was 8. Anyway you're wrong about Bradshaw not putting up the same numbers in a season(go look at what he did in '10) and Jacobs of course didn't catch the ball out of the backfield but he was a lot more reliable and consistent than Ward ever was in the running game.