PDA

View Full Version : Bitin' Yer Nose



Red Dog
12-12-2011, 12:19 PM
to spite your face is an old cliche, but isn't that an exact description and result of actions taken against Bradshaw for missing curfew, keeping him out of the game, a very important game.
Discipline must be maintained and rules followed, but I believe that keeping a major player out of an important game like last nights has a negative impact on the entire team and the coaches who need wins to stay employed. It's the same as penalizing the entire team and fans because of one misfit???
What other kind of penalty, other than a huge fine, should Coughlin or other HC's employ other than "sit-a-star?"

Ruttiger711
12-12-2011, 12:23 PM
I'm just wondering if the timeframe was layed down immediately or if coughlin felt he could sit him for the entire half AFTER seeing how Jacob's was running.

GMENAGAIN
12-12-2011, 12:28 PM
So just penalize the crappy players?</P>


Everyone has to be treated the same or else there will be no discipline.</P>


I laud TC for sitting Bradshaw.</P>

burier
12-12-2011, 12:33 PM
So just penalize the crappy players?</P>


Everyone has to be treated the same or else there will be no discipline.</P>


I laud TC for sitting Bradshaw.</P>

I actually think this was more about stategy than anything and on 2 levels.

number 1 the Cowboys didn't expect to see Jacobs back there that often that early so they needed to adjust. You prepare for a combo of Bradshaw and Jacobs and you get Jacobs and Ware. Element of surprise.

2) Jacobs was working so there's no reason to rush Bradshaw back.

I think Bradshaw might have missed just 1 series if the game dictated that he needed to be out there.

brad
12-12-2011, 12:34 PM
With the way the BJ ran, I don't see how you could suggest this. Jacobs ran better than Bradshaw last night and Coughlin made his point that no single player is more important than the team.

Gmen32
12-12-2011, 12:35 PM
Sorry... But its "cutting your nose to spite your face". How do you bite your own nose?

GCGiant
12-12-2011, 12:37 PM
Wewon. TC did the right thing. BJ was pumped. Everything worked-out and TC still has his credibility with the rest of the players.

Red Dog
12-12-2011, 12:48 PM
Maybe I didn't make the point of the post clear This type of penalizing affects the whole team and may affect performance of the whole team.
That type penalizing against one player is unfair to everyone else who have to make up the abscence of talent.
I never said anything about not penaliizing a player, just find a penalty that does not penalize the entire team because of one. Sometimes referred to as "throwing out the baby with the bath water."
And if Jacobs had a lousy first 1/4 or first 1/2 everyone would have been calling for Coughlin's head

Giantsin04
12-12-2011, 12:54 PM
If TC had allowed Bradshaw to break the rules without consequence because he runs faster than a lesser player, he would lose a ton of respect as a leader of men.

Carl Banks was talking about this issue this morning. He said that it is well documented that Coughlin and Bradshaw are very close. He mentored him through a lot of tough situations and is really fond of the kid. Must of been really tough to follow through with the discipline.

MikeIsaGiant
12-12-2011, 12:57 PM
Don't see what was wrong with this, Jacobs played a good game anyway. Bradshaw got what he deserved, and I expect a good game from him next weekend, fire the guy up!

MDL
12-12-2011, 12:59 PM
It's the old question, usually asked of High School FB coaches: "Do you support your school's suspending/ benching your starting QB on the day of "the big game" for some school rule infraction , or do you fight the (deserved) penalty for the good of the team?? (see Wayne Hills NJ)

What is the better answer??

I know that the NFL is NOT the same as HS, but the ethics/lessons could/should be the same.
I applaud Coach Coughlin's guts and standards.

Of course, had BJ stunk, and the team lost.....:)

Red Dog
12-12-2011, 03:13 PM
The responses are making it about whether or not Bradshaw should be punished (of course he should) and that BJ ran very well so Bradshaw wasn't needed anyway
The post was about punishing in a different manner. All you guys would have blown up ready to run Coughlin out of town had BJ ran poorly, and/or the Giants lost.
The question was is there a better penalization that making the rest of the team pay through possibly losing the game? What about team morale suffering because, instead of a heavy fine, a star player didn't play? Oh, but,but,but, we won anyway, but, but, but, will we win the next time? Fine him not bench him cause he screwed up and got paid anyway

GCGiant
12-12-2011, 03:31 PM
Maybe I didn't make the point of the post clear This type of penalizing affects the whole team and may affect performance of the whole team. That type penalizing against one player is unfair to everyone else who have to make up the abscence of talent. I never said anything about not penaliizing a player, just find a penalty that does not penalize the entire team because of one. Sometimes referred to as "throwing out the baby with the bath water." And if Jacobs had a lousy first 1/4 or first 1/2 everyone would have been calling for Coughlin's head</P>


I see your point...but I wonder how many people would have taken notice if he would've fined him or make him run extra wind sprints or something...</P>


There is no doubt in my mind that everybody on that team knew why AB was sitting on the bench in the 1st half...and if TC gets fired after the game and never coaches again he still has his principles.</P>


I'm gonna guess that TC's rule*was already in place*regarding curfew, though.* If that is the case, then there is no need for any further conversation.* What else could he do?</P>

Ruttiger711
12-12-2011, 04:34 PM
I wonder if you have to be 5 minutes early for curfew too.

i keeed i keeed...

Roosevelt
12-12-2011, 04:57 PM
to spite your face is an old cliche, but isn't that an exact description and result of actions taken against Bradshaw for missing curfew, keeping him out of the game, a very important game.
Discipline must be maintained and rules followed, but I believe that keeping a major player out of an important game like last nights has a negative impact on the entire team and the coaches who need wins to stay employed. It's the same as penalizing the entire team and fans because of one misfit???
What other kind of penalty, other than a huge fine, should Coughlin or other HC's employ other than "sit-a-star?"

Coughlin did the right thing. Bradshaw hurt our team last night. Not Coughlin.

slipknottin
12-12-2011, 04:59 PM
The responses are making it about whether or not Bradshaw should be punished (of course he should) and that BJ ran very well so Bradshaw wasn't needed anyway
The post was about punishing in a different manner. All you guys would have blown up ready to run Coughlin out of town had BJ ran poorly, and/or the Giants lost.
The question was is there a better penalization that making the rest of the team pay through possibly losing the game? What about team morale suffering because, instead of a heavy fine, a star player didn't play? Oh, but,but,but, we won anyway, but, but, but, will we win the next time? Fine him not bench him cause he screwed up and got paid anyway

I have no idea what you are saying.

Are you saying that instead of punishing every player equally for breaking the rules, he should punish the "star" players less?

And that this is somehow better for team morale?

byron
12-12-2011, 06:53 PM
The responses are making it about whether or not Bradshaw should be punished (of course he should) and that BJ ran very well so Bradshaw wasn't needed anyway The post was about punishing in a different manner. All you guys would have blown up ready to run Coughlin out of town had BJ ran poorly, and/or the Giants lost. The question was is there a better penalization that making the rest of the team pay through possibly losing the game? What about team morale suffering because, instead of a heavy fine, a star player didn't play? Oh, but,but,but, we won anyway, but, but, but, will we win the next time? Fine him not bench him cause he screwed up and got paid anyway</P>


For what its worth Red dog I'm with ya here "fine 'em play'em" ....he gets paid what250000 or soto play, if its me paying that man I want him to play notride thepine ...the loser in all this is theowner getting nothing for his money and the fan paying for the ticketto see him play ... a man shows up for work you don't send him home with pay cause he stayed up late...</P>


I understand a man has to be punished sometimes and since TC had this rule in place "or at leastI suspect" he would have tostand by it or he would look weak as a boss...That being said I don'tstand by his rule orTCs ways..As a fanI want the best players on the field every week because I want wins...best players= best chance....screwall this teamdrama bull**** I really could care less the he was late getting inand or how TC handles it ..play football!!</P>


I also can see where it could have a negative affect on team morale as a whole especially if many don't like the rule/rules... andof coarse circumstances would play in also of which we don't the extent off...I just soon none of this stuff saw the light day..</P>

gmen46
12-12-2011, 07:33 PM
to spite your face is an old cliche, but isn't that an exact description and result of actions taken against Bradshaw for missing curfew, keeping him out of the game, a very important game.
Discipline must be maintained and rules followed, but I believe that keeping a major player out of an important game like last nights has a negative impact on the entire team and the coaches who need wins to stay employed. It's the same as penalizing the entire team and fans because of one misfit???
What other kind of penalty, other than a huge fine, should Coughlin or other HC's employ other than "sit-a-star?"

You seem to miss the point of team discipline in general, and of Coughlin's coaching philosophy in particular.

TC's approach to coaching is and has always been TEAM, first, last, and always.

Central to that approach is that each player succeeds as a team, and they also falter or fail as a team.

In order for TC to exemplify and therefore maintain that attitude with all of his players and coaches, he can't then turn around and exempt a specific player from a promised punishment for rules violation simply because it's INCONVENIENT. or because it's "this" player or "that" particular game.

The whole point of his penalty on Bradshaw yesterday is that by violating a team rule that is applied to ALL players, Bradshaw took an unnecessary and reckless risk in hurting his own performance during the game, thereby risking hurting his team mates, their respective performances, and possibly the outcome of the game .

By simply fining Bradshaw, he would be saying to Bradshaw and to the team that it's really not THAT big a deal to violate a team rule. It'll "just" cost you some money.

By sitting Bradshaw for the entire first half, on the other hand, makes Bradshaw painfully aware of how his selfish actions could seriously hurt his team mates and seriously make them--and his coaches--disappointed in him.

You honestly think the possibility that his selfish and reckless actions could result in the team losing the game and maybe cost them the season didn't bother Bradshaw?

You honestly think the implementation of the punishment didn't hurt Coughlin (personally as well as professionally) as much as it did Bradshaw?

You honestly don't think it occurred to Coughlin how easy and tempting it would have been to give Bradshaw a pass, just this one time?

You are certainly not the only person who found Coughlin's discipline too tough given the circumstances of the game, the season, etc. But that's the problem.

The reason we see the divas that we do see today in professional sports is because too many "special" athletes in middle school, high school, college consistently experienced immunity from punishment for whatever poor judgement or bad behavior they may have exhibited--simply because THEY were special, exceptional. because they could run, or throw or catch a ball better than everyone else..

No surprise, then, when some of these athlete's don't mature enough to distinguish between being a child and an adult, and that different behavior is expected of them as adults. Because they never had to know the difference.

Plus, as soon as you ease off your own stated punishment for rules violation, you forfeit your right as head coach to having any respect from all other players and coaches on the team. How could they then trust ANYTHING you say thereafter?

That would ironically result in the dreaded and all too frequent and ridiculous accusation we see on this board aimed at Coughlin of "losing the team".

Coughlin did the right--the ONLY-- thing he could do, by sitting Bradshaw.

Drez
12-12-2011, 08:28 PM
to spite your face is an old cliche, but isn't that an exact description and result of actions taken against Bradshaw for missing curfew, keeping him out of the game, a very important game. Discipline must be maintained and rules followed, but I believe that keeping a major player out of an important game like last nights has a negative impact on the entire team and the coaches who need wins to stay employed. It's the same as penalizing the entire team and fans because of one misfit??? What other kind of penalty, other than a huge fine, should Coughlin or other HC's employ other than "sit-a-star?" You seem to miss the point of team discipline in general, and of Coughlin's coaching philosophy in particular. TC's approach to coaching is and has always been TEAM, first, last, and always. Central to that approach is that each player succeeds as a team, and they also falter or fail as a team. In order for TC to exemplify and therefore maintain that attitude with all of his players and coaches, he can't then turn around and exempt a specific player from a promised punishment for rules violation simply because it's INCONVENIENT. or because it's "this" player or "that" particular game. The whole point of his penalty on Bradshaw yesterday is that by violating a team rule that is applied to ALL players, Bradshaw took an unnecessary and reckless risk in hurting his own performance during the game, thereby risking hurting his team mates, their respective performances, and possibly the outcome of the game . By simply fining Bradshaw, he would be saying to Bradshaw and to the team that it's really not THAT big a deal to violate a team rule. It'll "just" cost you some money. By sitting Bradshaw for the entire first half, on the other hand, makes Bradshaw painfully aware of how his selfish actions could seriously hurt his team mates and seriously make them--and his coaches--disappointed in him. You honestly think the possibility that his selfish and reckless actions could result in the team losing the game and maybe cost them the season didn't bother Bradshaw? You honestly think the implementation of the punishment didn't hurt Coughlin (personally as well as professionally) as much as it did Bradshaw? You honestly don't think it occurred to Coughlin how easy and tempting it would have been to give Bradshaw a pass, just this one time? You are certainly not the only person who found Coughlin's discipline too tough given the circumstances of the game, the season, etc. But that's the problem. The reason we see the divas that we do see today in professional sports is because too many "special" athletes in middle school, high school, college consistently experienced immunity from punishment for whatever poor judgement or bad behavior they may have exhibited--simply because THEY were special, exceptional. because they could run, or throw or catch a ball better than everyone else.. No surprise, then, when some of these athlete's don't mature enough to distinguish between being a child and an adult, and that different behavior is expected of them as adults. Because they never had to know the difference. Plus, as soon as you ease off your own stated punishment for rules violation, you forfeit your right as head coach to having any respect from all other players and coaches on the team. How could they then trust ANYTHING you say thereafter? That would ironically result in the dreaded and all too frequent and ridiculous accusation we see on this board aimed at Coughlin of "losing the team". Coughlin did the right--the ONLY-- thing he could do, by sitting Bradshaw.</P>


Thanks for saving me some carpal tunnel, lol.</P>

BK07071
12-12-2011, 09:41 PM
to spite your face is an old cliche, but isn't that an exact description and result of actions taken against Bradshaw for missing curfew, keeping him out of the game, a very important game.
Discipline must be maintained and rules followed, but I believe that keeping a major player out of an important game like last nights has a negative impact on the entire team and the coaches who need wins to stay employed. It's the same as penalizing the entire team and fans because of one misfit???
What other kind of penalty, other than a huge fine, should Coughlin or other HC's employ other than "sit-a-star?"

One question.......did we win the game in spite of the action taken against Bradshaw? Than stop complaining !

Red Dog
12-13-2011, 12:34 PM
So, Byron is the only one who can think and respond to the issue. I think all responders who couldn't or won't understand what I was writing should be "benched" by the Mods leaving only Byron and me to write back and forth for a week or so:-)

gmen46
12-13-2011, 06:11 PM
So, Byron is the only one who can think and respond to the issue. I think all responders who couldn't or won't understand what I was writing should be "benched" by the Mods leaving only Byron and me to write back and forth for a week or so:-)

So because Byron is the only poster who agrees with you, and who concluded his post with the wish that discipline on the team not even be alluded to in public (head buried in sand approach), he's the only one who "can think and respond to the issue", huh?

It appears you prefer a circle jerk rather than an honest debate. Ok.

I think I gave thought to the question, and gave you an honest response.

Clearly you either don't have the intellectual balls or wherewithal to counter argue. AMF.

byron
12-13-2011, 07:36 PM
So, Byron is the only one who can think and respond to the issue. I think all responders who couldn't or won't understand what I was writing should be "benched" by the Mods leaving only Byron and me to write back and forth for a week or so:-) So because Byron is the only poster who agrees with you, and who concluded his post with the wish that discipline on the team not even be alluded to in public (head buried in sand approach), he's the only one who "can think and respond to the issue", huh? It appears you prefer a circle jerk rather than an honest debate. Ok. I think I gave thought to the question, and gave you an honest response. Clearly you either don't have the intellectual balls or wherewithal to counter argue. AMF.</P>


dude he was asking if there should or could be a better way to handle discipline rather than bench a player in a game.. you went off on how TC done theright thing and gave reasons why...Red Dog stated twice at least that was not the point ofhis thread...here is his question from his first post</P>


"What other kind of penalty, other than a huge fine, should Coughlin or other HC's employ other than "sit-a-star?" </P>


This last post was more or less a joke on his part...And seriously I don't care what these players do with there spare time or the trouble they get in...call it burying my head in the sand if you want ...I want them on the field playing football on game day....</P>


peace man</P>

RoanokeFan
12-13-2011, 07:44 PM
to spite your face is an old cliche, but isn't that an exact description and result of actions taken against Bradshaw for missing curfew, keeping him out of the game, a very important game.
Discipline must be maintained and rules followed, but I believe that keeping a major player out of an important game like last nights has a negative impact on the entire team and the coaches who need wins to stay employed. It's the same as penalizing the entire team and fans because of one misfit???
What other kind of penalty, other than a huge fine, should Coughlin or other HC's employ other than "sit-a-star?"

Could it be you missed the earlier thread on the same topic?

If more coaches took the step TC took, we'd have less divas and more players who do what they're asked to do.

TC was enforcing a rule that every player knows as well as the consequence. TC didn't punish the team, Bradshaw did that by intentionally removing himself from half the game.

SweetZombieJesus
12-13-2011, 08:09 PM
Bradshaw hurt the team with his selfish play, not just himself.

gmen46
12-13-2011, 09:04 PM
So, Byron is the only one who can think and respond to the issue. I think all responders who couldn't or won't understand what I was writing should be "benched" by the Mods leaving only Byron and me to write back and forth for a week or so:-) So because Byron is the only poster who agrees with you, and who concluded his post with the wish that discipline on the team not even be alluded to in public (head buried in sand approach), he's the only one who "can think and respond to the issue", huh? It appears you prefer a circle jerk rather than an honest debate. Ok. I think I gave thought to the question, and gave you an honest response. Clearly you either don't have the intellectual balls or wherewithal to counter argue. AMF.</P>


dude he was asking if there should or could be a better way to handle discipline rather than bench a player in a game.. you went off on how TC done the*right thing and gave reasons why...Red Dog stated twice at least that was not the point of*his thread...here is his question from his first post</P>


"What other kind of penalty, other than a huge fine, should Coughlin or other HC's employ other than "sit-a-star?" </P>


This last post was more or less a joke on his part...And seriously I don't care what these players do with there spare time or the trouble they get in...call it burying my head in the sand if you want ...I want them on the field playing football on game day....</P>


peace man</P>

Due respect, I did not miss the point of his thread that BEGINS with the mutilation of the old saying "cutting your nose off to spite your face".

I think his point is VERY CLEAR--that Coughlin was wrong to exercise player discipline if that discipline is applied to a key player right before an important game.

I completely disagree with red dog on the issue, and explained why. Apparently I'm not alone in my disagreement, for whatever that's worth, according to most responses to his post.

His parting question in his original post is not the "point" of the thread, it's just a question. A question about possible alternatives to Coughlin having the guts and integrity to put his actions where his mouth is.

I have an answer to red dog's question is---"None". There IS no alternative to doing the right thing.

Too many here are so perverse as to constantly harp on the old "Coughlin's lost the team" nonsense that crops up EVERY single season after losing a game, and then are so quick to criticize him for not doing the very thing that WOULD lose him the team--which is to be hypocritical and give Bradshaw a "pass" on his rule violation.

He did the right thing.

He did what any other quality head coach would do--and have done in same circumstances--and that was to follow through with promised discipline. Regardless of who the player is or what the game circumstances are.

And, frankly, I have not picked up from any post game interviews or player body language on the sidelines during the game--and especially that of Bradshaw--that ANYONE on the team had a problem with Coughlin's decision.

It's just you two and a handful of other fans that apparently have a problem with it. And after one of the most exciting, satisfying, and critical Giant wins in the last 4 years, at that.

byron
12-13-2011, 09:56 PM
So, Byron is the only one who can think and respond to the issue. I think all responders who couldn't or won't understand what I was writing should be "benched" by the Mods leaving only Byron and me to write back and forth for a week or so:-) So because Byron is the only poster who agrees with you, and who concluded his post with the wish that discipline on the team not even be alluded to in public (head buried in sand approach), he's the only one who "can think and respond to the issue", huh? It appears you prefer a circle jerk rather than an honest debate. Ok. I think I gave thought to the question, and gave you an honest response. Clearly you either don't have the intellectual balls or wherewithal to counter argue. AMF.</P>


dude he was asking if there should or could be a better way to handle discipline rather than bench a player in a game.. you went off on how TC done theright thing and gave reasons why...Red Dog stated twice at least that was not the point ofhis thread...here is his question from his first post</P>


"What other kind of penalty, other than a huge fine, should Coughlin or other HC's employ other than "sit-a-star?" </P>


This last post was more or less a joke on his part...And seriously I don't care what these players do with there spare time or the trouble they get in...call it burying my head in the sand if you want ...I want them on the field playing football on game day....</P>


peace man</P>


Due respect, I did not miss the point of his thread that BEGINS with the mutilation of the old saying "cutting your nose off to spite your face". I think his point is VERY CLEAR--that Coughlin was wrong to exercise player discipline if that discipline is applied to a key player right before an important game. I completely disagree with red dog on the issue, and explained why. Apparently I'm not alone in my disagreement, for whatever that's worth, according to most responses to his post. His parting question in his original post is not the "point" of the thread, it's just a question. A question about possible alternatives to Coughlin having the guts and integrity to put his actions where his mouth is. I have an answer to red dog's question is---"None". There IS no alternative to doing the right thing. Too many here are so perverse as to constantly harp on the old "Coughlin's lost the team" nonsense that crops up EVERY single season after losing a game, and then are so quick to criticize him for not doing the very thing that WOULD lose him the team--which is to be hypocritical and give Bradshaw a "pass" on his rule violation. He did the right thing. He did what any other quality head coach would do--and have done in same circumstances--and that was to follow through with promised discipline. Regardless of who the player is or what the game circumstances are. And, frankly, I have not picked up from any post game interviews or player body language on the sidelines during the game--and especially that of Bradshaw--that ANYONE on the team had a problem with Coughlin's decision. It's just you two and a handful of other fans that apparently have a problem with it. And after one of the most exciting, satisfying, and critical Giant wins in the last 4 years, at that.</P>


Well man I was not in anyway trying to take anything away from the win Sunday...It was a great game and win...I was just answering the question as I saw it...I also stated that TC most certainly had to enforce his rule...to not do so would make him look weak and lose player respect no doubt....</P>


DoI have a problem withthe way TC does things?yeah probably.. but my opinion was not meant to be personal toward you or anyone else here...I responded to you because I fell youtook itpersonal or it seemed by your response to Red Dog.....</P>


For what its worth I don't disagree with much of what said I just think at this level and the amount of money they get payed they need to play....paying a guy to ride the pine doesn't make a lot of since to me,take his pay for the day....instead of giving him a time out ....jmho 46 no more no less......no disrespect meanttoward yours and prehaps a nessasary evil for some of this spoiled players....</P>

gmen46
12-14-2011, 05:02 AM
So, Byron is the only one who can think and respond to the issue. I think all responders who couldn't or won't understand what I was writing should be "benched" by the Mods leaving only Byron and me to write back and forth for a week or so:-) So because Byron is the only poster who agrees with you, and who concluded his post with the wish that discipline on the team not even be alluded to in public (head buried in sand approach), he's the only one who "can think and respond to the issue", huh? It appears you prefer a circle jerk rather than an honest debate. Ok. I think I gave thought to the question, and gave you an honest response. Clearly you either don't have the intellectual balls or wherewithal to counter argue. AMF.</P>


dude he was asking if there should or could be a better way to handle discipline rather than bench a player in a game.. you went off on how TC done the*right thing and gave reasons why...Red Dog stated twice at least that was not the point of*his thread...here is his question from his first post</P>


"What other kind of penalty, other than a huge fine, should Coughlin or other HC's employ other than "sit-a-star?" </P>


This last post was more or less a joke on his part...And seriously I don't care what these players do with there spare time or the trouble they get in...call it burying my head in the sand if you want ...I want them on the field playing football on game day....</P>


peace man</P>


Due respect, I did not miss the point of his thread that BEGINS with the mutilation of the old saying "cutting your nose off to spite your face". I think his point is VERY CLEAR--that Coughlin was wrong to exercise player discipline if that discipline is applied to a key player right before an important game. I completely disagree with red dog on the issue, and explained why. Apparently I'm not alone in my disagreement, for whatever that's worth, according to most responses to his post. His parting question in his original post is not the "point" of the thread, it's just a question. A question about possible alternatives to Coughlin having the guts and integrity to put his actions where his mouth is. I have an answer to red dog's question is---"None". There IS no alternative to doing the right thing. Too many here are so perverse as to constantly harp on the old "Coughlin's lost the team" nonsense that crops up EVERY single season after losing a game, and then are so quick to criticize him for not doing the very thing that WOULD lose him the team--which is to be hypocritical and give Bradshaw a "pass" on his rule violation. He did the right thing. He did what any other quality head coach would do--and have done in same circumstances--and that was to follow through with promised discipline. Regardless of who the player is or what the game circumstances are. And, frankly, I have not picked up from any post game interviews or player body language on the sidelines during the game--and especially that of Bradshaw--that ANYONE on the team had a problem with Coughlin's decision. It's just you two and a handful of other fans that apparently have a problem with it. And after one of the most exciting, satisfying, and critical Giant wins in the last 4 years, at that.</P>


Well man I was not in anyway trying to take anything away from the win Sunday...It was a great game and win...I was just answering the question as I saw it...I also stated that TC most certainly had to enforce his rule...to not do so would make him look weak and lose player respect no doubt....</P>


Do*I have a problem with*the way TC does things?*yeah probably.. but my opinion was not meant to be personal toward you or anyone else here...I responded to you because I fell you*took it*personal or it seemed by your response to Red Dog.....</P>


For what its worth I don't disagree with much of what said I just think at this level and the amount of money they get payed they need to play....paying a guy to ride the pine doesn't make a lot of since to me,take his pay for the day**....*instead of giving him a time out ....jmho 46 no more no less......no disrespect meant*toward yours and prehaps a nessasary evil for some of this spoiled players....</P>

Fair enough.

I didn't intend to come across as a personal attack towards you or red dog, but the topic of personal accountability--in all aspects of society, not just sports--and the trend over the past 30 years in this country to duck it whenever possible, is a big issue with me.

What Coughlin did in this instance is EXACTLY the example I want my sons to see. That as much as we love the Giants and agonize over wins and losses every Sunday, there are many aspects to life so much more important.

As parents, we don't always have the ready opportunity to point out examples of integrity, of the importance of saying what you mean and meaning what you say, that have actual relevance to our children.

I'm glad TC did what he did, and the way he did it. When asked by the press after the game what the infraction was, he said simply "it's internal". Read-"it's in the family".

A couple players (including the so-called "big mouthed" Rolle) apparently were asked about it and they said essentially the same thing. I like it.

jakegibbs
12-14-2011, 07:23 AM
The responses are making it about whether or not Bradshaw should be punished (of course he should) and that BJ ran very well so Bradshaw wasn't needed anyway
The post was about punishing in a different manner. All you guys would have blown up ready to run Coughlin out of town had BJ ran poorly, and/or the Giants lost.
The question was is there a better penalization that making the rest of the team pay through possibly losing the game? What about team morale suffering because, instead of a heavy fine, a star player didn't play? Oh, but,but,but, we won anyway, but, but, but, will we win the next time? Fine him not bench him cause he screwed up and got paid anyway

We can talk this thing back & forth forever & nothing will be resolved.

2 important things are missing that we know nothing about.

What was the rule he broke?
What is the penalty for breaking that rule?

If the penalty was suspension during a game then so be it TC has to enforce the rules to the letter of the law or that leads to proceieved coach player favortism.

If that rule infraction penalty was being suspended for a half then that's what he got. Like I said until we know the infraction & the follow penalty for that infraction we're spinning our wheels here. Guess what the Giants aint talking so maybe we shouldn't either.

GameTime
12-14-2011, 07:28 AM
to spite your face is an old cliche, but isn't that an exact description and result of actions taken against Bradshaw for missing curfew, keeping him out of the game, a very important game. Discipline must be maintained and rules followed, but I believe that keeping a major player out of an important game like last nights has a negative impact on the entire team and the coaches who need wins to stay employed. It's the same as penalizing the entire team and fans because of one misfit??? What other kind of penalty, other than a huge fine, should Coughlin or other HC's employ other than "sit-a-star?"</P>


how is standing by your principles or beliefs a cliche'...</P>


TC was right......he sends a message. Dont **** up and we will all be good.</P>


BRADSHAW HURT HIS TEAM.....NOT COUGHLIN!!!</P>

nygsb42champs
12-14-2011, 08:03 AM
TC did the right thing. Bradshaw is the one who would have let his team down by missing curfew.

GameTime
12-14-2011, 10:59 AM
TC did the right thing. Bradshaw is the one who would have let his team down by missing curfew.</P>


Exactly....</P>


do you blame the rule?? ....NO you dont</P>


do you blame the enforcment of the rule??.....No you dont</P>


you blame the person who broke the known rule.......</P>


if I get a traffic ticket for speeding do I blame the cop who caught me???? Of course I do...lol. But the bottom line is Bradshaw knows the rules and got caught. His fault 100% not Coughlin's. </P>


Besides...TC was putting his own *** on the line big time. A loss may have spelled his certain departure as coach. He put his priciples BEFORE even his own welfare. Thats a man of true conviction and principle. </P>

byron
12-14-2011, 12:27 PM
So, Byron is the only one who can think and respond to the issue. I think all responders who couldn't or won't understand what I was writing should be "benched" by the Mods leaving only Byron and me to write back and forth for a week or so:-) So because Byron is the only poster who agrees with you, and who concluded his post with the wish that discipline on the team not even be alluded to in public (head buried in sand approach), he's the only one who "can think and respond to the issue", huh? It appears you prefer a circle jerk rather than an honest debate. Ok. I think I gave thought to the question, and gave you an honest response. Clearly you either don't have the intellectual balls or wherewithal to counter argue. AMF.</P>


dude he was asking if there should or could be a better way to handle discipline rather than bench a player in a game.. you went off on how TC done theright thing and gave reasons why...Red Dog stated twice at least that was not the point ofhis thread...here is his question from his first post</P>


"What other kind of penalty, other than a huge fine, should Coughlin or other HC's employ other than "sit-a-star?" </P>


This last post was more or less a joke on his part...And seriously I don't care what these players do with there spare time or the trouble they get in...call it burying my head in the sand if you want ...I want them on the field playing football on game day....</P>


peace man</P>


Due respect, I did not miss the point of his thread that BEGINS with the mutilation of the old saying "cutting your nose off to spite your face". I think his point is VERY CLEAR--that Coughlin was wrong to exercise player discipline if that discipline is applied to a key player right before an important game. I completely disagree with red dog on the issue, and explained why. Apparently I'm not alone in my disagreement, for whatever that's worth, according to most responses to his post. His parting question in his original post is not the "point" of the thread, it's just a question. A question about possible alternatives to Coughlin having the guts and integrity to put his actions where his mouth is. I have an answer to red dog's question is---"None". There IS no alternative to doing the right thing. Too many here are so perverse as to constantly harp on the old "Coughlin's lost the team" nonsense that crops up EVERY single season after losing a game, and then are so quick to criticize him for not doing the very thing that WOULD lose him the team--which is to be hypocritical and give Bradshaw a "pass" on his rule violation. He did the right thing. He did what any other quality head coach would do--and have done in same circumstances--and that was to follow through with promised discipline. Regardless of who the player is or what the game circumstances are. And, frankly, I have not picked up from any post game interviews or player body language on the sidelines during the game--and especially that of Bradshaw--that ANYONE on the team had a problem with Coughlin's decision. It's just you two and a handful of other fans that apparently have a problem with it. And after one of the most exciting, satisfying, and critical Giant wins in the last 4 years, at that.</P>


Well man I was not in anyway trying to take anything away from the win Sunday...It was a great game and win...I was just answering the question as I saw it...I also stated that TC most certainly had to enforce his rule...to not do so would make him look weak and lose player respect no doubt....</P>


DoI have a problem withthe way TC does things?yeah probably.. but my opinion was not meant to be personal toward you or anyone else here...I responded to you because I fell youtook itpersonal or it seemed by your response to Red Dog.....</P>


For what its worth I don't disagree with much of what said I just think at this level and the amount of money they get payed they need to play....paying a guy to ride the pine doesn't make a lot of since to me,take his pay for the day....instead of giving him a time out ....jmho 46 no more no less......no disrespect meanttoward yours and prehaps a nessasary evil for some of this spoiled players....</P>


Fair enough. I didn't intend to come across as a personal attack towards you or red dog, but the topic of personal accountability--in all aspects of society, not just sports--and the trend over the past 30 years in this country to duck it whenever possible, is a big issue with me. What Coughlin did in this instance is EXACTLY the example I want my sons to see. That as much as we love the Giants and agonize over wins and losses every Sunday, there are many aspects to life so much more important. As parents, we don't always have the ready opportunity to point out examples of integrity, of the importance of saying <FONT color=#0000ff>what you mean and meaning what you say</FONT>, that have actual relevance to our children. I'm glad TC did what he did, and the way he did it. When asked by the press after the game what the infraction was, he said simply "it's internal". Read-"it's in the family". A couple players (including the so-called "big mouthed" Rolle) apparently were asked about it and they said essentially the same thing. I like it.</P>


Its all good G...my statement about the light of day = keeping it in house/its in the family...putting it on national TVhardly accomplishes that but rather put a spot light on it and maybe rightfully so......Couldn't agree more with the highlighted above that's howI raised my children andits starts early with the meaning of the wordno....Both my children turned out to be fine young grown ups andin fact far better young adultsthan I was at their same age....thank god !</P>


lets hope AB got the point.....Go Giants </P>

gmen46
12-14-2011, 02:23 PM
So, Byron is the only one who can think and respond to the issue. I think all responders who couldn't or won't understand what I was writing should be "benched" by the Mods leaving only Byron and me to write back and forth for a week or so:-) So because Byron is the only poster who agrees with you, and who concluded his post with the wish that discipline on the team not even be alluded to in public (head buried in sand approach), he's the only one who "can think and respond to the issue", huh? It appears you prefer a circle jerk rather than an honest debate. Ok. I think I gave thought to the question, and gave you an honest response. Clearly you either don't have the intellectual balls or wherewithal to counter argue. AMF.</P>


dude he was asking if there should or could be a better way to handle discipline rather than bench a player in a game.. you went off on how TC done the*right thing and gave reasons why...Red Dog stated twice at least that was not the point of*his thread...here is his question from his first post</P>


"What other kind of penalty, other than a huge fine, should Coughlin or other HC's employ other than "sit-a-star?" </P>


This last post was more or less a joke on his part...And seriously I don't care what these players do with there spare time or the trouble they get in...call it burying my head in the sand if you want ...I want them on the field playing football on game day....</P>


peace man</P>


Due respect, I did not miss the point of his thread that BEGINS with the mutilation of the old saying "cutting your nose off to spite your face". I think his point is VERY CLEAR--that Coughlin was wrong to exercise player discipline if that discipline is applied to a key player right before an important game. I completely disagree with red dog on the issue, and explained why. Apparently I'm not alone in my disagreement, for whatever that's worth, according to most responses to his post. His parting question in his original post is not the "point" of the thread, it's just a question. A question about possible alternatives to Coughlin having the guts and integrity to put his actions where his mouth is. I have an answer to red dog's question is---"None". There IS no alternative to doing the right thing. Too many here are so perverse as to constantly harp on the old "Coughlin's lost the team" nonsense that crops up EVERY single season after losing a game, and then are so quick to criticize him for not doing the very thing that WOULD lose him the team--which is to be hypocritical and give Bradshaw a "pass" on his rule violation. He did the right thing. He did what any other quality head coach would do--and have done in same circumstances--and that was to follow through with promised discipline. Regardless of who the player is or what the game circumstances are. And, frankly, I have not picked up from any post game interviews or player body language on the sidelines during the game--and especially that of Bradshaw--that ANYONE on the team had a problem with Coughlin's decision. It's just you two and a handful of other fans that apparently have a problem with it. And after one of the most exciting, satisfying, and critical Giant wins in the last 4 years, at that.</P>


Well man I was not in anyway trying to take anything away from the win Sunday...It was a great game and win...I was just answering the question as I saw it...I also stated that TC most certainly had to enforce his rule...to not do so would make him look weak and lose player respect no doubt....</P>


Do*I have a problem with*the way TC does things?*yeah probably.. but my opinion was not meant to be personal toward you or anyone else here...I responded to you because I fell you*took it*personal or it seemed by your response to Red Dog.....</P>


For what its worth I don't disagree with much of what said I just think at this level and the amount of money they get payed they need to play....paying a guy to ride the pine doesn't make a lot of since to me,take his pay for the day**....*instead of giving him a time out ....jmho 46 no more no less......no disrespect meant*toward yours and prehaps a nessasary evil for some of this spoiled players....</P>


Fair enough. I didn't intend to come across as a personal attack towards you or red dog, but the topic of personal accountability--in all aspects of society, not just sports--and the trend over the past 30 years in this country to duck it whenever possible, is a big issue with me. What Coughlin did in this instance is EXACTLY the example I want my sons to see. That as much as we love the Giants and agonize over wins and losses every Sunday, there are many aspects to life so much more important. As parents, we don't always have the ready opportunity to point out examples of integrity, of the importance of saying <FONT color=#0000ff>what you mean and meaning what you say</FONT>, that have actual relevance to our children. I'm glad TC did what he did, and the way he did it. When asked by the press after the game what the infraction was, he said simply "it's internal". Read-"it's in the family". A couple players (including the so-called "big mouthed" Rolle) apparently were asked about it and they said essentially the same thing. I like it.</P>


Its all good G...my statement about the light of day = keeping it in house/its in the family...putting it on national TV*hardly accomplishes that but rather put a spot light on it and maybe rightfully so*......*Couldn't agree more with the highlighted above that's how*I raised my children and*its starts early with the meaning of the word*no....Both my children turned out to be fine young grown ups and*in fact far better young adults*than I was at their same age....thank god !</P>


lets hope AB got the point.....Go Giants </P>

I echo your comments here, especially about your kids, and congratulate you on a job well done with them.

I feel exactly the same about my two (both in their early 20s, who had rough patches in their teen years, but they're still my "children", know what I mean?) It's never too late to see one's own ideals for human behavior reinforced in front of them, by someone better than me who is a public figure and whom we all three respect, which is one of many reasons why I applaud TC's actions in this instance.

And my interpretation of Bradshaw--in his interviews, his transparent overall attitude towards his team mates and coaches, his positive body language (no sulking or glares, etc) on the sidelines during Sunday's game--lead me to believe that he has gotten the point.

Beat Washington!

TroyArcher
12-14-2011, 07:16 PM
So where do you draw the line? Its OK to break the rules if it is an important game? Thats BS. I have alot of respect for TC for sticking to the rules for everyone. I like Bradshaw and I hope he learned his lesson. We do not need another Plaxico incident.