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JMFP2
12-12-2011, 02:49 PM
There seem to be several factors at work with respect to the defense:

1-Injuries
2-Communication
3-Talent
4-Effort
5-Schemes
6-Opponents

Fewell can’t pick who is healthy and who is on IR.

The communication issues are the fault of the players…..I saw at least 2 TDs that were the result of busted zone assignments.

The talent is on Reese – outside of Boley, he has completely failed to upgrade the LB unit….just ask Denver how they are liking Vonn Miller. Granted, Vonn Miller was long gone in the draft....I'm just pointing out the "instant upgrade" a quality linebacker can bring to the defense.

The effort is on the players. There's no reason that JPP seems to be the only guy hustling at times. This was more a case in the NO game than the last two. I'm just saying it was a big issue against Seattle, Philly, and NO.

The schemes are all Fewell...more on that below.

The opponents are just a result of Green Bay and the Saints somehow finishing #2 last year.

My take: It’s not all on Fewell, but a lot of it is. In particular, he continues to rely on the Tampa-2, despite the fact that a) his secondary was signed/drafted for their strength in man coverage, and b) he utterly lacks the Briggs/Urlacher linebacker prototype necessary to make the Tampa-2 most effective. I’m sorry, Perry, but Deon Grant is not a substitute for a good linebacker.

It’s easy to say “they need to blitz more”… I understand that brings its own set of problems. However, when the zone is getting repeatedly abused, and when the defense is literally in the basement on all defensive rankings, how can you justify staying with a scheme that not only gives up points, but looks to be demoralizing your team?

Again, I’m just a fan, and who knows what a 100% healthy defense looks like against a normal schedule? But this defense needs to get a lot more aggressive….because their current approach is an abject failure, and they have a guy named Eli Manning who is used to bailing them out game after game.

Kruunch
12-12-2011, 02:54 PM
So in other words it's everyone's fault?

I can get behind that.

JMFP2
12-12-2011, 03:00 PM
So in other words it's everyone's fault?

I can get behind that.

In a way....I'm just trying to figure out to what extent each variable is impacting the team.

For comparison, look at the offensive line and the running game. For most of the year, it has struggled, and now, seems to have found some success after moving Diehl outside, and plugging Petrus and Boothe inside.

I wonder to what extent Fewell can work with what he has to improve the unit. And i wonder how much the schedule is playing into it, etc., etc.

slipknottin
12-12-2011, 03:01 PM
Completely disagree with the Von miller thing. Miller is a once in a decade player... Can't blame the giants GM for not getting a player like that when he had no opportunity.

Bring up a mid round LB that the giants had a shot at if you want to make that argument.

As for Fewells reliance on zone... The CBs have not been playing well enough in man coverage

Redeyejedi
12-12-2011, 03:02 PM
So the strength is man coverage someone should tell that to Aaron Ross saw him get beat for a TD in man. Then on 3rd and 5 Romo could of iced the game had he hit Austin that was Man coverage. Prince Amukumara was beat for 74 yards in man coverage. The Tight end Jon Phillips scored a TD in Man coverage. Its not one particular defensive style or coverage they get beat in everything Fewell throws out there. There is a whole combination of problems going on injuries,lack of talent, effort.</P>

Redeyejedi
12-12-2011, 03:05 PM
Completely disagree with the Von miller thing. Miller is a once in a decade player... Can't blame the giants GM for not getting a player like that when he had no opportunity. Bring up a mid round LB that the giants had a shot at if you want to make that argument. As for Fewells reliance on zone... The CBs have not been playing well enough in man coverageYour right .People keep saying man coverage. Every time I see man coverage I see WR's getting behind the CB's for big plays.At least in Zone the ball is in front of them.Webster is the only one that doesnt get smoked in man coverage

Redeyejedi
12-12-2011, 03:07 PM
At least with Heavy zone schemes u get turnovers.QB's miss a guy and u get an interception

gumby742
12-12-2011, 03:16 PM
There seem to be several factors at work with respect to the defense: 1-Injuries 2-Communication 3-Talent 4-Effort 5-Schemes 6-Opponents Fewell can’t pick who is healthy and who is on IR. The communication issues are the fault of the players…..I saw at least 2 TDs that were the result of busted zone assignments. The talent is on Reese – outside of Boley, he has completely failed to upgrade the LB unit….just ask Denver how they are liking Vonn Miller. Granted, Vonn Miller was long gone in the draft....I'm just pointing out the "instant upgrade" a quality linebacker can bring to the defense. The effort is on the players. There's no reason that JPP seems to be the only guy hustling at times. This was more a case in the NO game than the last two. I'm just saying it was a big issue against Seattle, Philly, and NO. The schemes are all Fewell...more on that below. The opponents are just a result of Green Bay and the Saints somehow finishing #2 last year. My take: It’s not all on Fewell, but a lot of it is. In particular, he continues to rely on the Tampa-2, despite the fact that a) his secondary was signed/drafted for their strength in man coverage, and b) he utterly lacks the Briggs/Urlacher linebacker prototype necessary to make the Tampa-2 most effective. I’m sorry, Perry, but Deon Grant is not a substitute for a good linebacker. It’s easy to say “they need to blitz more”… I understand that brings its own set of problems. However, when the zone is getting repeatedly abused, and when the defense is literally in the basement on all defensive rankings, how can you justify staying with a scheme that not only gives up points, but looks to be demoralizing your team? Again, I’m just a fan, and who knows what a 100% healthy defense looks like against a normal schedule? But this defense needs to get a lot more aggressive….because their current approach is an abject failure, and they have a guy named Eli Manning who is used to bailing them out game after game.</P>


Talent?!!!, Again i dare you to find me a defense with more collective individual talent then we do. Try it and you might learn something. </P>


This isn't madden. Name me a defense with no holes. There will be none. Name me a team that has done nothing to address a position of "need". There will be many. Not enough money to go around trying to address EVERYTHING. Be glad you're only crying about one position.</P>

TrueBlue@NYC
12-12-2011, 03:40 PM
I agree with redeye, it's not so much the type of coverage man vs zone, it doesn't matter which you play if there isn't a pass rush.

We need more pressure on the QB from out front 4. Blitxing HAS NOT worked for us at all. Fewell needs to scheme more twists and stunts into our pass rush. It's way too easy for the OL to zero in and just focus on blocking the guy lined up in front of him. It worked very well for us last year, don't know why we've gone away from it.

buddy33
12-12-2011, 03:43 PM
In another thread you dismiss injuries as an excuse. It say they have enough talent. Ross might not have made the team if it where not for so many injuries and he is their #2 CB. Prince is talented but broke his foot so that's another injury that can not be discounted. They had a guy at MLB who was looking in pre season. Well they lost Goff and no matter how much I like Williams he is just a rookie. Tuck has been hurt all year and Osi has been in and out of the line up.

Healthy they has lots of talent and PF did better with them last year. They are not healthy and it shows. That's why they are counting on guys who not even on NFL rosters this a week or two ago. Injuries have put this defense in very ba shape.

titwio
12-12-2011, 03:49 PM
What I don't get is the coverage by the CB's even when they are in man. They hang so loose off the WR's and always seem to be looking some where else. WTH is up with that!

How about sticking to the receiver in tight coverage. Can there be some of that too...instead of these guys trying to do two things at once and trying to over compensate.

Joe Morrison
12-12-2011, 03:56 PM
There seem to be several factors at work with respect to the defense: 1-Injuries 2-Communication 3-Talent 4-Effort 5-Schemes 6-Opponents Fewell can’t pick who is healthy and who is on IR. The communication issues are the fault of the players…..I saw at least 2 TDs that were the result of busted zone assignments. The talent is on Reese – outside of Boley, he has completely failed to upgrade the LB unit….just ask Denver how they are liking Vonn Miller. Granted, Vonn Miller was long gone in the draft....I'm just pointing out the "instant upgrade" a quality linebacker can bring to the defense. The effort is on the players. There's no reason that JPP seems to be the only guy hustling at times. This was more a case in the NO game than the last two. I'm just saying it was a big issue against Seattle, Philly, and NO. The schemes are all Fewell...more on that below. The opponents are just a result of Green Bay and the Saints somehow finishing #2 last year. My take: It’s not all on Fewell, but a lot of it is. In particular, he continues to rely on the Tampa-2, despite the fact that a) his secondary was signed/drafted for their strength in man coverage, and b) he utterly lacks the Briggs/Urlacher linebacker prototype necessary to make the Tampa-2 most effective. I’m sorry, Perry, but Deon Grant is not a substitute for a good linebacker. It’s easy to say “they need to blitz more”… I understand that brings its own set of problems. However, when the zone is getting repeatedly abused, and when the defense is literally in the basement on all defensive rankings, how can you justify staying with a scheme that not only gives up points, but looks to be demoralizing your team? Again, I’m just a fan, and who knows what a 100% healthy defense looks like against a normal schedule? But this defense needs to get a lot more aggressive….because their current approach is an abject failure, and they have a guy named Eli Manning who is used to bailing them out game after game.</P>


How about in the beginning of the year the GMEN got off to a quick start with the 4 man rush working great.</P>


Adjustments, after that time period other teams look at tape a figure out all they need to do is keep 5 men to block 4 men - offense will win 99% of the time, 1% someone will make a play.</P>


Lack of Adjustment - Fewell refuses to add another player to the scheme, even if its a delayed blitz from a linebacker or a corner from the edge, he just drops into the zone and lets the QB hang out until someone breaks free.</P>


Run defense is normally good, last night not so much but did put Dallas in 3rd and long, what does Fewell do, rush 3 men against 5, giving the qb even longer and everyone thinks our secondary sucks.</P>


There is always some missed assignments, blown coverages, but a strong rush and blitz will bail you out sometimes if the qb has to get rid of it early, gets moved out of the pocket or hit.</P>


Until Fewell makes some adjustments it's going to be a long haul to win 2 out of three to finish.</P>

gumby742
12-12-2011, 04:01 PM
There seem to be several factors at work with respect to the defense: 1-Injuries 2-Communication 3-Talent 4-Effort 5-Schemes 6-Opponents Fewell can’t pick who is healthy and who is on IR. The communication issues are the fault of the players…..I saw at least 2 TDs that were the result of busted zone assignments. The talent is on Reese – outside of Boley, he has completely failed to upgrade the LB unit….just ask Denver how they are liking Vonn Miller. Granted, Vonn Miller was long gone in the draft....I'm just pointing out the "instant upgrade" a quality linebacker can bring to the defense. The effort is on the players. There's no reason that JPP seems to be the only guy hustling at times. This was more a case in the NO game than the last two. I'm just saying it was a big issue against Seattle, Philly, and NO. The schemes are all Fewell...more on that below. The opponents are just a result of Green Bay and the Saints somehow finishing #2 last year. My take: It’s not all on Fewell, but a lot of it is. In particular, he continues to rely on the Tampa-2, despite the fact that a) his secondary was signed/drafted for their strength in man coverage, and b) he utterly lacks the Briggs/Urlacher linebacker prototype necessary to make the Tampa-2 most effective. I’m sorry, Perry, but Deon Grant is not a substitute for a good linebacker. It’s easy to say “they need to blitz more”… I understand that brings its own set of problems. However, when the zone is getting repeatedly abused, and when the defense is literally in the basement on all defensive rankings, how can you justify staying with a scheme that not only gives up points, but looks to be demoralizing your team? Again, I’m just a fan, and who knows what a 100% healthy defense looks like against a normal schedule? But this defense needs to get a lot more aggressive….because their current approach is an abject failure, and they have a guy named Eli Manning who is used to bailing them out game after game.</P>


Talent?!!!, Again i dare you to find me a defense with more collective individual talent then we do. Try it and you might learn something. </P>


This isn't madden. Name me a defense with no holes. There will be none. Name me a team that has done nothing to address a position of "need". There will be many. Not enough money to go around trying to address EVERYTHING. Be glad you're only crying about one position.</P>


</P>


Bump for Madden boys burier and FMP. The salary cap isn't year to year. It's year to the next X years down the road. This isn't "only deal with the salary cap for 1 season" Madden. Change it to Play 10 seasons and you guys finally might get it.</P>

JMFP2
12-12-2011, 04:15 PM
There seem to be several factors at work with respect to the defense: 1-Injuries 2-Communication 3-Talent 4-Effort 5-Schemes 6-Opponents Fewell can’t pick who is healthy and who is on IR. The communication issues are the fault of the players…..I saw at least 2 TDs that were the result of busted zone assignments. The talent is on Reese – outside of Boley, he has completely failed to upgrade the LB unit….just ask Denver how they are liking Vonn Miller. Granted, Vonn Miller was long gone in the draft....I'm just pointing out the "instant upgrade" a quality linebacker can bring to the defense. The effort is on the players. There's no reason that JPP seems to be the only guy hustling at times. This was more a case in the NO game than the last two. I'm just saying it was a big issue against Seattle, Philly, and NO. The schemes are all Fewell...more on that below. The opponents are just a result of Green Bay and the Saints somehow finishing #2 last year. My take: It’s not all on Fewell, but a lot of it is. In particular, he continues to rely on the Tampa-2, despite the fact that a) his secondary was signed/drafted for their strength in man coverage, and b) he utterly lacks the Briggs/Urlacher linebacker prototype necessary to make the Tampa-2 most effective. I’m sorry, Perry, but Deon Grant is not a substitute for a good linebacker. It’s easy to say “they need to blitz more”… I understand that brings its own set of problems. However, when the zone is getting repeatedly abused, and when the defense is literally in the basement on all defensive rankings, how can you justify staying with a scheme that not only gives up points, but looks to be demoralizing your team? Again, I’m just a fan, and who knows what a 100% healthy defense looks like against a normal schedule? But this defense needs to get a lot more aggressive….because their current approach is an abject failure, and they have a guy named Eli Manning who is used to bailing them out game after game.</P>


Talent?!!!, Again i dare you to find me a defense with more collective individual talent then we do.* Try it and you might learn something.* </P>


This isn't madden.* Name me a defense with no holes.* There will be none.* Name me a team that has done nothing to address a position of "need".** There will be many.* Not enough money to go around trying to address EVERYTHING.* Be glad you're only crying about one position.</P>


</P>


Bump for Madden boys burier and FMP.* The salary cap isn't year to year.* It's year to the next X years down the road.* This isn't "only deal with the salary cap for 1 season" Madden.* Change it to Play 10 seasons and you guys finally might get it.</P>

I'm pretty sure I mentioned multiple issues besides talent.

Regarding talent: our linebackers lack it. Our safeties aren't showing it.

I understand talent and injuries are related....when a guy like T2 goes down, the available pool of roster talent takes a hit.

I think I also made it clear that I'm trying, as a fan, to understand some of the root problems.

Your "this isn't Madden" response is some weak sauce.....I'm trying to have a discussion here, not an argument.

Take your negativity somewhere else unless you've got something meaningful to add. "Bumping" the thread just proves your arrogance.

gumby742
12-12-2011, 04:29 PM
There seem to be several factors at work with respect to the defense: 1-Injuries 2-Communication 3-Talent 4-Effort 5-Schemes 6-Opponents Fewell can’t pick who is healthy and who is on IR. The communication issues are the fault of the players…..I saw at least 2 TDs that were the result of busted zone assignments. The talent is on Reese – outside of Boley, he has completely failed to upgrade the LB unit….just ask Denver how they are liking Vonn Miller. Granted, Vonn Miller was long gone in the draft....I'm just pointing out the "instant upgrade" a quality linebacker can bring to the defense. The effort is on the players. There's no reason that JPP seems to be the only guy hustling at times. This was more a case in the NO game than the last two. I'm just saying it was a big issue against Seattle, Philly, and NO. The schemes are all Fewell...more on that below. The opponents are just a result of Green Bay and the Saints somehow finishing #2 last year. My take: It’s not all on Fewell, but a lot of it is. In particular, he continues to rely on the Tampa-2, despite the fact that a) his secondary was signed/drafted for their strength in man coverage, and b) he utterly lacks the Briggs/Urlacher linebacker prototype necessary to make the Tampa-2 most effective. I’m sorry, Perry, but Deon Grant is not a substitute for a good linebacker. It’s easy to say “they need to blitz more”… I understand that brings its own set of problems. However, when the zone is getting repeatedly abused, and when the defense is literally in the basement on all defensive rankings, how can you justify staying with a scheme that not only gives up points, but looks to be demoralizing your team? Again, I’m just a fan, and who knows what a 100% healthy defense looks like against a normal schedule? But this defense needs to get a lot more aggressive….because their current approach is an abject failure, and they have a guy named Eli Manning who is used to bailing them out game after game.</P>


Talent?!!!, Again i dare you to find me a defense with more collective individual talent then we do. Try it and you might learn something. </P>


This isn't madden. Name me a defense with no holes. There will be none. Name me a team that has done nothing to address a position of "need". There will be many. Not enough money to go around trying to address EVERYTHING. Be glad you're only crying about one position.</P>


</P>


Bump for Madden boys burier and FMP. The salary cap isn't year to year. It's year to the next X years down the road. This isn't "only deal with the salary cap for 1 season" Madden. Change it to Play 10 seasons and you guys finally might get it.</P>


I'm pretty sure I mentioned multiple issues besides talent. Regarding talent: our linebackers lack it. Our safeties aren't showing it. I understand talent and injuries are related....when a guy like T2 goes down, the available pool of roster talent takes a hit. I think I also made it clear that I'm trying, as a fan, to understand some of the root problems. Your "this isn't Madden" response is some weak sauce.....I'm trying to have a discussion here, not an argument. Take your negativity somewhere else unless you've got something meaningful to add.</P>


Reese is not to blame when you have injuries. If you want to blame injuries for our poor performance, go ahead. But this is not on Reese one bit.</P>


And the fact that you blame Reese for lacking to address only 1 area in the entire defense shows you have no clue about how things work with the salary cap. Go ahead, go me another defense with more collective talent. Find me a team that doesn't have holes. You can't do it. So this is very Madden relevant. You don't understand that you just don't have enough money to go around. You ARE going to have bandaids at certain position where it is a weakness and you need to hide.</P>


And don't mix up having talent and performance. It's the job of the coaching staff to utilize the talent that we have so that they perform at a high level. The eagles have all the talent in the world and yet, what have they done this year?</P>


So again, i challenge you to make me a list of teams that have more collective talent then we do. If you so please, go find me a team with no holes on defense. This is no where near on Reese. Nor is it because we lack talent - when healthy or healthy enough.</P>

JMFP2
12-12-2011, 04:32 PM
There seem to be several factors at work with respect to the defense: 1-Injuries 2-Communication 3-Talent 4-Effort 5-Schemes 6-Opponents Fewell can’t pick who is healthy and who is on IR. The communication issues are the fault of the players…..I saw at least 2 TDs that were the result of busted zone assignments. The talent is on Reese – outside of Boley, he has completely failed to upgrade the LB unit….just ask Denver how they are liking Vonn Miller. Granted, Vonn Miller was long gone in the draft....I'm just pointing out the "instant upgrade" a quality linebacker can bring to the defense. The effort is on the players. There's no reason that JPP seems to be the only guy hustling at times. This was more a case in the NO game than the last two. I'm just saying it was a big issue against Seattle, Philly, and NO. The schemes are all Fewell...more on that below. The opponents are just a result of Green Bay and the Saints somehow finishing #2 last year. My take: It’s not all on Fewell, but a lot of it is. In particular, he continues to rely on the Tampa-2, despite the fact that a) his secondary was signed/drafted for their strength in man coverage, and b) he utterly lacks the Briggs/Urlacher linebacker prototype necessary to make the Tampa-2 most effective. I’m sorry, Perry, but Deon Grant is not a substitute for a good linebacker. It’s easy to say “they need to blitz more”… I understand that brings its own set of problems. However, when the zone is getting repeatedly abused, and when the defense is literally in the basement on all defensive rankings, how can you justify staying with a scheme that not only gives up points, but looks to be demoralizing your team? Again, I’m just a fan, and who knows what a 100% healthy defense looks like against a normal schedule? But this defense needs to get a lot more aggressive….because their current approach is an abject failure, and they have a guy named Eli Manning who is used to bailing them out game after game.</P>


Talent?!!!, Again i dare you to find me a defense with more collective individual talent then we do.* Try it and you might learn something.* </P>


This isn't madden.* Name me a defense with no holes.* There will be none.* Name me a team that has done nothing to address a position of "need".** There will be many.* Not enough money to go around trying to address EVERYTHING.* Be glad you're only crying about one position.</P>


</P>


Bump for Madden boys burier and FMP.* The salary cap isn't year to year.* It's year to the next X years down the road.* This isn't "only deal with the salary cap for 1 season" Madden.* Change it to Play 10 seasons and you guys finally might get it.</P>


I'm pretty sure I mentioned multiple issues besides talent. Regarding talent: our linebackers lack it. Our safeties aren't showing it. I understand talent and injuries are related....when a guy like T2 goes down, the available pool of roster talent takes a hit. I think I also made it clear that I'm trying, as a fan, to understand some of the root problems. Your "this isn't Madden" response is some weak sauce.....I'm trying to have a discussion here, not an argument. Take your negativity somewhere else unless you've got something meaningful to add.</P>


Reese is not to blame when you have injuries.* If you want to blame injuries for our poor performance, go ahead.* But* this is not on Reese one bit.</P>


And the fact that you blame Reese for lacking to address only 1 area in the entire defense shows you have no clue about how things work with the salary cap.* Go ahead, go me another defense with more collective talent.* Find me a team that doesn't have holes.* You can't do it.* So this is very Madden relevant.* You don't understand that you just don't have enough money to go around.* You ARE going to have bandaids at certain position where it is a weakness and you need to hide.</P>


And don't mix up having talent and performance.* It's the job of the coaching staff to utilize the talent that we have so that they perform at a high level.* The eagles have all the talent in the world and yet, what have they done this year?</P>


So again, i challenge you to make me a list of teams that have more collective talent then we do.* If you so please, go find me a team with no holes on defense.* This is no where near on Reese.* </P>

How about instead, you tell me why you think the Giants defense is in the basement?

Otherwise, make your own thread, or STFU.

gumby742
12-12-2011, 04:34 PM
There seem to be several factors at work with respect to the defense: 1-Injuries 2-Communication 3-Talent 4-Effort 5-Schemes 6-Opponents Fewell can’t pick who is healthy and who is on IR. The communication issues are the fault of the players…..I saw at least 2 TDs that were the result of busted zone assignments. The talent is on Reese – outside of Boley, he has completely failed to upgrade the LB unit….just ask Denver how they are liking Vonn Miller. Granted, Vonn Miller was long gone in the draft....I'm just pointing out the "instant upgrade" a quality linebacker can bring to the defense. The effort is on the players. There's no reason that JPP seems to be the only guy hustling at times. This was more a case in the NO game than the last two. I'm just saying it was a big issue against Seattle, Philly, and NO. The schemes are all Fewell...more on that below. The opponents are just a result of Green Bay and the Saints somehow finishing #2 last year. My take: It’s not all on Fewell, but a lot of it is. In particular, he continues to rely on the Tampa-2, despite the fact that a) his secondary was signed/drafted for their strength in man coverage, and b) he utterly lacks the Briggs/Urlacher linebacker prototype necessary to make the Tampa-2 most effective. I’m sorry, Perry, but Deon Grant is not a substitute for a good linebacker. It’s easy to say “they need to blitz more”… I understand that brings its own set of problems. However, when the zone is getting repeatedly abused, and when the defense is literally in the basement on all defensive rankings, how can you justify staying with a scheme that not only gives up points, but looks to be demoralizing your team? Again, I’m just a fan, and who knows what a 100% healthy defense looks like against a normal schedule? But this defense needs to get a lot more aggressive….because their current approach is an abject failure, and they have a guy named Eli Manning who is used to bailing them out game after game.</P>


Talent?!!!, Again i dare you to find me a defense with more collective individual talent then we do. Try it and you might learn something. </P>


This isn't madden. Name me a defense with no holes. There will be none. Name me a team that has done nothing to address a position of "need". There will be many. Not enough money to go around trying to address EVERYTHING. Be glad you're only crying about one position.</P>


</P>


Bump for Madden boys burier and FMP. The salary cap isn't year to year. It's year to the next X years down the road. This isn't "only deal with the salary cap for 1 season" Madden. Change it to Play 10 seasons and you guys finally might get it.</P>


I'm pretty sure I mentioned multiple issues besides talent. Regarding talent: our linebackers lack it. Our safeties aren't showing it. I understand talent and injuries are related....when a guy like T2 goes down, the available pool of roster talent takes a hit. I think I also made it clear that I'm trying, as a fan, to understand some of the root problems. Your "this isn't Madden" response is some weak sauce.....I'm trying to have a discussion here, not an argument. Take your negativity somewhere else unless you've got something meaningful to add.</P>


Reese is not to blame when you have injuries. If you want to blame injuries for our poor performance, go ahead. But this is not on Reese one bit.</P>


And the fact that you blame Reese for lacking to address only 1 area in the entire defense shows you have no clue about how things work with the salary cap. Go ahead, go me another defense with more collective talent. Find me a team that doesn't have holes. You can't do it. So this is very Madden relevant. You don't understand that you just don't have enough money to go around. You ARE going to have bandaids at certain position where it is a weakness and you need to hide.</P>


And don't mix up having talent and performance. It's the job of the coaching staff to utilize the talent that we have so that they perform at a high level. The eagles have all the talent in the world and yet, what have they done this year?</P>


So again, i challenge you to make me a list of teams that have more collective talent then we do. If you so please, go find me a team with no holes on defense. This is no where near on Reese. </P>


How about instead, you tell me why you think the Giants defense is in the basement? Otherwise, make your own thread, or STFU.</P>


Simple. It's coaching and injuries. And spare me the insults. Might as well learn something instead.</P>

BigBlueFanNJ
12-12-2011, 04:35 PM
I think overall its a coaching issue! The core of this defense is very talented and has performed at a much higher level in the past.

Yes we have had injuries,and yes the loss of Goff and TT hurt big time! but we should have the ability to overcome that

I believe the coaching staff is the issue for a number of reasons.

First the communication issues, the Giants are almost always out of position, fumbling to get in the right defense up until the snap and their are way to many blown assignments especially in the secondary. (a supposed Fewell strength)

Either the coaches are not preparing the team properly, not using the players to their strengths or the system is way to complicated and needs to be simplified. and game planning is poor with no adjustments in game This is on fewell

Second no accountabilty! players have no consequences for poor play . Tuck and Grant ,Rolle, all of whom I like have played poorly and should have been benched at some point. if for no other reason than to light a fire under their asses. (Tuck may have some mystery ailment or whatever but get him out of their till he's better he is a liabilty at this point.)

Third the schemes are weak and do not fit this team we fired the last coordinator for this kind of pansy *** soft defense, to replace it with what a softer pansy *** defense?

this teams defense was built to attack and get after the QB to win the battle at the line of scrimmage and be disruptive, and physically imposing. On paper we were supposed to have the most dominant front four. Fewell was hired to get the secondary together and allow us to be more efficient in rushing the QB and not allow the big play HIS defense has failed miserably in this regard.

Bend dont' break says it all, think weak play weak and that starts at the top with the D coordinator.

JMFP2
12-12-2011, 04:40 PM
There seem to be several factors at work with respect to the defense: 1-Injuries 2-Communication 3-Talent 4-Effort 5-Schemes 6-Opponents Fewell can’t pick who is healthy and who is on IR. The communication issues are the fault of the players…..I saw at least 2 TDs that were the result of busted zone assignments. The talent is on Reese – outside of Boley, he has completely failed to upgrade the LB unit….just ask Denver how they are liking Vonn Miller. Granted, Vonn Miller was long gone in the draft....I'm just pointing out the "instant upgrade" a quality linebacker can bring to the defense. The effort is on the players. There's no reason that JPP seems to be the only guy hustling at times. This was more a case in the NO game than the last two. I'm just saying it was a big issue against Seattle, Philly, and NO. The schemes are all Fewell...more on that below. The opponents are just a result of Green Bay and the Saints somehow finishing #2 last year. My take: It’s not all on Fewell, but a lot of it is. In particular, he continues to rely on the Tampa-2, despite the fact that a) his secondary was signed/drafted for their strength in man coverage, and b) he utterly lacks the Briggs/Urlacher linebacker prototype necessary to make the Tampa-2 most effective. I’m sorry, Perry, but Deon Grant is not a substitute for a good linebacker. It’s easy to say “they need to blitz more”… I understand that brings its own set of problems. However, when the zone is getting repeatedly abused, and when the defense is literally in the basement on all defensive rankings, how can you justify staying with a scheme that not only gives up points, but looks to be demoralizing your team? Again, I’m just a fan, and who knows what a 100% healthy defense looks like against a normal schedule? But this defense needs to get a lot more aggressive….because their current approach is an abject failure, and they have a guy named Eli Manning who is used to bailing them out game after game.</P>


Talent?!!!, Again i dare you to find me a defense with more collective individual talent then we do.* Try it and you might learn something.* </P>


This isn't madden.* Name me a defense with no holes.* There will be none.* Name me a team that has done nothing to address a position of "need".** There will be many.* Not enough money to go around trying to address EVERYTHING.* Be glad you're only crying about one position.</P>


</P>


Bump for Madden boys burier and FMP.* The salary cap isn't year to year.* It's year to the next X years down the road.* This isn't "only deal with the salary cap for 1 season" Madden.* Change it to Play 10 seasons and you guys finally might get it.</P>


I'm pretty sure I mentioned multiple issues besides talent. Regarding talent: our linebackers lack it. Our safeties aren't showing it. I understand talent and injuries are related....when a guy like T2 goes down, the available pool of roster talent takes a hit. I think I also made it clear that I'm trying, as a fan, to understand some of the root problems. Your "this isn't Madden" response is some weak sauce.....I'm trying to have a discussion here, not an argument. Take your negativity somewhere else unless you've got something meaningful to add.</P>


Reese is not to blame when you have injuries.* If you want to blame injuries for our poor performance, go ahead.* But* this is not on Reese one bit.</P>


And the fact that you blame Reese for lacking to address only 1 area in the entire defense shows you have no clue about how things work with the salary cap.* Go ahead, go me another defense with more collective talent.* Find me a team that doesn't have holes.* You can't do it.* So this is very Madden relevant.* You don't understand that you just don't have enough money to go around.* You ARE going to have bandaids at certain position where it is a weakness and you need to hide.</P>


And don't mix up having talent and performance.* It's the job of the coaching staff to utilize the talent that we have so that they perform at a high level.* The eagles have all the talent in the world and yet, what have they done this year?</P>


So again, i challenge you to make me a list of teams that have more collective talent then we do.* If you so please, go find me a team with no holes on defense.* This is no where near on Reese.* </P>


How about instead, you tell me why you think the Giants defense is in the basement? Otherwise, make your own thread, or STFU.</P>


Simple.* It's coaching and injuries.* And spare me the insults.* Might as well learn something instead.</P>

I started a post to make some general comments and solicit opinions. You replied instead with insults, and then bumped it with some more. Reread the thread....what the **** were you expecting, roses and chocolates?

gumby742
12-12-2011, 04:45 PM
There seem to be several factors at work with respect to the defense: 1-Injuries 2-Communication 3-Talent 4-Effort 5-Schemes 6-Opponents Fewell can’t pick who is healthy and who is on IR. The communication issues are the fault of the players…..I saw at least 2 TDs that were the result of busted zone assignments. The talent is on Reese – outside of Boley, he has completely failed to upgrade the LB unit….just ask Denver how they are liking Vonn Miller. Granted, Vonn Miller was long gone in the draft....I'm just pointing out the "instant upgrade" a quality linebacker can bring to the defense. The effort is on the players. There's no reason that JPP seems to be the only guy hustling at times. This was more a case in the NO game than the last two. I'm just saying it was a big issue against Seattle, Philly, and NO. The schemes are all Fewell...more on that below. The opponents are just a result of Green Bay and the Saints somehow finishing #2 last year. My take: It’s not all on Fewell, but a lot of it is. In particular, he continues to rely on the Tampa-2, despite the fact that a) his secondary was signed/drafted for their strength in man coverage, and b) he utterly lacks the Briggs/Urlacher linebacker prototype necessary to make the Tampa-2 most effective. I’m sorry, Perry, but Deon Grant is not a substitute for a good linebacker. It’s easy to say “they need to blitz more”… I understand that brings its own set of problems. However, when the zone is getting repeatedly abused, and when the defense is literally in the basement on all defensive rankings, how can you justify staying with a scheme that not only gives up points, but looks to be demoralizing your team? Again, I’m just a fan, and who knows what a 100% healthy defense looks like against a normal schedule? But this defense needs to get a lot more aggressive….because their current approach is an abject failure, and they have a guy named Eli Manning who is used to bailing them out game after game.</P>


Talent?!!!, Again i dare you to find me a defense with more collective individual talent then we do. Try it and you might learn something. </P>


This isn't madden. Name me a defense with no holes. There will be none. Name me a team that has done nothing to address a position of "need". There will be many. Not enough money to go around trying to address EVERYTHING. Be glad you're only crying about one position.</P>


</P>


Bump for Madden boys burier and FMP. The salary cap isn't year to year. It's year to the next X years down the road. This isn't "only deal with the salary cap for 1 season" Madden. Change it to Play 10 seasons and you guys finally might get it.</P>


I'm pretty sure I mentioned multiple issues besides talent. Regarding talent: our linebackers lack it. Our safeties aren't showing it. I understand talent and injuries are related....when a guy like T2 goes down, the available pool of roster talent takes a hit. I think I also made it clear that I'm trying, as a fan, to understand some of the root problems. Your "this isn't Madden" response is some weak sauce.....I'm trying to have a discussion here, not an argument. Take your negativity somewhere else unless you've got something meaningful to add.</P>


Reese is not to blame when you have injuries. If you want to blame injuries for our poor performance, go ahead. But this is not on Reese one bit.</P>


And the fact that you blame Reese for lacking to address only 1 area in the entire defense shows you have no clue about how things work with the salary cap. Go ahead, go me another defense with more collective talent. Find me a team that doesn't have holes. You can't do it. So this is very Madden relevant. You don't understand that you just don't have enough money to go around. You ARE going to have bandaids at certain position where it is a weakness and you need to hide.</P>


And don't mix up having talent and performance. It's the job of the coaching staff to utilize the talent that we have so that they perform at a high level. The eagles have all the talent in the world and yet, what have they done this year?</P>


So again, i challenge you to make me a list of teams that have more collective talent then we do. If you so please, go find me a team with no holes on defense. This is no where near on Reese. </P>


How about instead, you tell me why you think the Giants defense is in the basement? Otherwise, make your own thread, or STFU.</P>


Simple. It's coaching and injuries. And spare me the insults. Might as well learn something instead.</P>


I started a post to make some general comments and solicit opinions. You replied instead with insults, and then bumped it with some more. Reread the thread....what the **** were you expecting, roses and chocolates?</P>


lol. i suppose i did call you a madden boy. so my bad. but seriously. think about it.</P>

JMFP2
12-12-2011, 06:10 PM
There seem to be several factors at work with respect to the defense: 1-Injuries 2-Communication 3-Talent 4-Effort 5-Schemes 6-Opponents Fewell can’t pick who is healthy and who is on IR. The communication issues are the fault of the players…..I saw at least 2 TDs that were the result of busted zone assignments. The talent is on Reese – outside of Boley, he has completely failed to upgrade the LB unit….just ask Denver how they are liking Vonn Miller. Granted, Vonn Miller was long gone in the draft....I'm just pointing out the "instant upgrade" a quality linebacker can bring to the defense. The effort is on the players. There's no reason that JPP seems to be the only guy hustling at times. This was more a case in the NO game than the last two. I'm just saying it was a big issue against Seattle, Philly, and NO. The schemes are all Fewell...more on that below. The opponents are just a result of Green Bay and the Saints somehow finishing #2 last year. My take: It’s not all on Fewell, but a lot of it is. In particular, he continues to rely on the Tampa-2, despite the fact that a) his secondary was signed/drafted for their strength in man coverage, and b) he utterly lacks the Briggs/Urlacher linebacker prototype necessary to make the Tampa-2 most effective. I’m sorry, Perry, but Deon Grant is not a substitute for a good linebacker. It’s easy to say “they need to blitz more”… I understand that brings its own set of problems. However, when the zone is getting repeatedly abused, and when the defense is literally in the basement on all defensive rankings, how can you justify staying with a scheme that not only gives up points, but looks to be demoralizing your team? Again, I’m just a fan, and who knows what a 100% healthy defense looks like against a normal schedule? But this defense needs to get a lot more aggressive….because their current approach is an abject failure, and they have a guy named Eli Manning who is used to bailing them out game after game.</P>


Talent?!!!, Again i dare you to find me a defense with more collective individual talent then we do.* Try it and you might learn something.* </P>


This isn't madden.* Name me a defense with no holes.* There will be none.* Name me a team that has done nothing to address a position of "need".** There will be many.* Not enough money to go around trying to address EVERYTHING.* Be glad you're only crying about one position.</P>


</P>


Bump for Madden boys burier and FMP.* The salary cap isn't year to year.* It's year to the next X years down the road.* This isn't "only deal with the salary cap for 1 season" Madden.* Change it to Play 10 seasons and you guys finally might get it.</P>


I'm pretty sure I mentioned multiple issues besides talent. Regarding talent: our linebackers lack it. Our safeties aren't showing it. I understand talent and injuries are related....when a guy like T2 goes down, the available pool of roster talent takes a hit. I think I also made it clear that I'm trying, as a fan, to understand some of the root problems. Your "this isn't Madden" response is some weak sauce.....I'm trying to have a discussion here, not an argument. Take your negativity somewhere else unless you've got something meaningful to add.</P>


Reese is not to blame when you have injuries.* If you want to blame injuries for our poor performance, go ahead.* But* this is not on Reese one bit.</P>


And the fact that you blame Reese for lacking to address only 1 area in the entire defense shows you have no clue about how things work with the salary cap.* Go ahead, go me another defense with more collective talent.* Find me a team that doesn't have holes.* You can't do it.* So this is very Madden relevant.* You don't understand that you just don't have enough money to go around.* You ARE going to have bandaids at certain position where it is a weakness and you need to hide.</P>


And don't mix up having talent and performance.* It's the job of the coaching staff to utilize the talent that we have so that they perform at a high level.* The eagles have all the talent in the world and yet, what have they done this year?</P>


So again, i challenge you to make me a list of teams that have more collective talent then we do.* If you so please, go find me a team with no holes on defense.* This is no where near on Reese.* </P>


How about instead, you tell me why you think the Giants defense is in the basement? Otherwise, make your own thread, or STFU.</P>


Simple.* It's coaching and injuries.* And spare me the insults.* Might as well learn something instead.</P>


I started a post to make some general comments and solicit opinions. You replied instead with insults, and then bumped it with some more. Reread the thread....what the **** were you expecting, roses and chocolates?</P>


lol.* i suppose i did call you a madden boy. so my bad.* but seriously.* think about it.</P>

First off....peace be with you. If I was out of bounds, I apologize.

Secondly, I understand your points. And yeah, there is talent on this team. JPP was a home run by Reese.

I'm just trying to figure out what factors are behind this defense playing so poorly this season. I don't think there is one single factor, but instead, a number of issues to blame.

gumby742
12-12-2011, 06:27 PM
There seem to be several factors at work with respect to the defense: 1-Injuries 2-Communication 3-Talent 4-Effort 5-Schemes 6-Opponents Fewell can’t pick who is healthy and who is on IR. The communication issues are the fault of the players…..I saw at least 2 TDs that were the result of busted zone assignments. The talent is on Reese – outside of Boley, he has completely failed to upgrade the LB unit….just ask Denver how they are liking Vonn Miller. Granted, Vonn Miller was long gone in the draft....I'm just pointing out the "instant upgrade" a quality linebacker can bring to the defense. The effort is on the players. There's no reason that JPP seems to be the only guy hustling at times. This was more a case in the NO game than the last two. I'm just saying it was a big issue against Seattle, Philly, and NO. The schemes are all Fewell...more on that below. The opponents are just a result of Green Bay and the Saints somehow finishing #2 last year. My take: It’s not all on Fewell, but a lot of it is. In particular, he continues to rely on the Tampa-2, despite the fact that a) his secondary was signed/drafted for their strength in man coverage, and b) he utterly lacks the Briggs/Urlacher linebacker prototype necessary to make the Tampa-2 most effective. I’m sorry, Perry, but Deon Grant is not a substitute for a good linebacker. It’s easy to say “they need to blitz more”… I understand that brings its own set of problems. However, when the zone is getting repeatedly abused, and when the defense is literally in the basement on all defensive rankings, how can you justify staying with a scheme that not only gives up points, but looks to be demoralizing your team? Again, I’m just a fan, and who knows what a 100% healthy defense looks like against a normal schedule? But this defense needs to get a lot more aggressive….because their current approach is an abject failure, and they have a guy named Eli Manning who is used to bailing them out game after game.</P>


Talent?!!!, Again i dare you to find me a defense with more collective individual talent then we do. Try it and you might learn something. </P>


This isn't madden. Name me a defense with no holes. There will be none. Name me a team that has done nothing to address a position of "need". There will be many. Not enough money to go around trying to address EVERYTHING. Be glad you're only crying about one position.</P>


</P>


Bump for Madden boys burier and FMP. The salary cap isn't year to year. It's year to the next X years down the road. This isn't "only deal with the salary cap for 1 season" Madden. Change it to Play 10 seasons and you guys finally might get it.</P>


I'm pretty sure I mentioned multiple issues besides talent. Regarding talent: our linebackers lack it. Our safeties aren't showing it. I understand talent and injuries are related....when a guy like T2 goes down, the available pool of roster talent takes a hit. I think I also made it clear that I'm trying, as a fan, to understand some of the root problems. Your "this isn't Madden" response is some weak sauce.....I'm trying to have a discussion here, not an argument. Take your negativity somewhere else unless you've got something meaningful to add.</P>


Reese is not to blame when you have injuries. If you want to blame injuries for our poor performance, go ahead. But this is not on Reese one bit.</P>


And the fact that you blame Reese for lacking to address only 1 area in the entire defense shows you have no clue about how things work with the salary cap. Go ahead, go me another defense with more collective talent. Find me a team that doesn't have holes. You can't do it. So this is very Madden relevant. You don't understand that you just don't have enough money to go around. You ARE going to have bandaids at certain position where it is a weakness and you need to hide.</P>


And don't mix up having talent and performance. It's the job of the coaching staff to utilize the talent that we have so that they perform at a high level. The eagles have all the talent in the world and yet, what have they done this year?</P>


So again, i challenge you to make me a list of teams that have more collective talent then we do. If you so please, go find me a team with no holes on defense. This is no where near on Reese. </P>


How about instead, you tell me why you think the Giants defense is in the basement? Otherwise, make your own thread, or STFU.</P>


Simple. It's coaching and injuries. And spare me the insults. Might as well learn something instead.</P>


I started a post to make some general comments and solicit opinions. You replied instead with insults, and then bumped it with some more. Reread the thread....what the **** were you expecting, roses and chocolates?</P>


lol. i suppose i did call you a madden boy. so my bad. but seriously. think about it.</P>


First off....peace be with you. If I was out of bounds, I apologize. Secondly, I understand your points. And yeah, there is talent on this team. JPP was a home run by Reese. I'm just trying to figure out what factors are behind this defense playing so poorly this season. I don't think there is one single factor, but instead, a number of issues to blame.</P>


Funny thing is all this poor defensive play had me questioning our talent as well. Like, maybe we're not as talented as we think? I do think our dline is overrated though. One thing I'm positive though is that with the talent that we have, we should at least be an average defense. Top notch? Maybe. Maybe not. But I'm willing to bet with Spags our defense would be close to the top. Which then raises the question, was Spags actually that good or are Fewell and Sheridan that poor.</P>


But if you think about it, Rolle, Philips, TT, Webster, JPP, Osi, Tuck, Canty would all be lock starters on other teams - for the most part.</P>

slipknottin
12-12-2011, 06:31 PM
I don't think the DL is overrated as much as they are pretty injured.

Austin on IR, Osi not playing, Tuck obviously is pretty seriously hurt.

Lose two all-pro players, plus a 2nd round DT, not sure how many DLs would still look good

JMFP2
12-12-2011, 06:34 PM
Funny thing is all this poor defensive play had me questioning our talent as well.* Like, maybe we're not as talented as we think?* I do think our dline is overrated though.* One thing I'm positive though is that with the talent that we have, we should at least be an average defense.* Top notch?* Maybe.* Maybe not.* But I'm willing to bet with Spags our defense would be close to the top.* Which then raises the question, was Spags actually that good or are Fewell and Sheridan that poor

But if you think about it, Rolle, Philips, TT, Webster, JPP, Osi, Tuck, Canty would all be lock starters on other teams - for the most part.

I'll agree, you'd think we'd be a top 10-15 unit given the guys we have.

And with respect to Spags v. Fewell....that gets to my point of needing to be more aggressive.

I know this team has been burned by the blitz, and man coverage has been hit by big plays, but at some point you need to let these guys play with some aggressiveness.....just be able to let lose a bit might help for them to regain some swagger.

Spags gambled and lost quite a bit. But most fans were okay with that sort of bargain, because that defense created a lot of havoc as well.

I can't remember the last big play by our secondary.

Regarding the defensive front, again hard to tell how much is due to injuries, and how much is diminishing talent due to age and wear.

JMFP2
12-12-2011, 06:37 PM
I don't think the DL is overrated as much as they are pretty injured.

Austin on IR, Osi not playing, Tuck obviously is pretty seriously hurt.

Lose two all-pro players, plus a 2nd round DT, not sure how many DLs would still look good

Austin....I was really hoping that kid would make a splash. Outside of T2, that injury really bummed me out.

slipknottin
12-12-2011, 06:39 PM
I don't think the DL is overrated as much as they are pretty injured.

Austin on IR, Osi not playing, Tuck obviously is pretty seriously hurt.

Lose two all-pro players, plus a 2nd round DT, not sure how many DLs would still look good

Austin....I was really hoping that kid would make a splash. Outside of T2, that injury really bummed me out.

I think everyone was, this defense is really missing that penetrating inside lineman. But Austin will be two years removed from football now, that concerns me a ton.

Gianthunter
12-12-2011, 08:16 PM
Different years but the same song plays. You can change captains but the crew runs the ship onto a rock. Keep searching for Captains mateys. That aint the problem.