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View Full Version : I really think JR wanted Wilson instead of Martin .....



Eliscruzzz
08-25-2012, 03:33 PM
Cause he saw this in him he knew the Giants needed an explosive back. Sure Martin is probably an better blocking back but we really don't need that yet when you have Bradshaw. I can't say how impressed I was with Wilson and Barden and Randle lol. It's going to be a great year. Just think when we get Nicks back, this offense can be great. Oh I forgot the black unicorn too, I know it's to early to say but this just shows Dallas (to me) didn't give this guy a chance, better yet Romo didn't cause his butt buddy Witten I bet they miss his blocking now.

giantsfan420
08-25-2012, 03:36 PM
wilson had things about his play that stand out, his talent is def. 1rst round material. he is way more athletically gifted than Martin imo.
Martin is an all around back. I think he went 1rst based on how nfl ready he is. he doesnt have that athleticism Wilson has, but he is further into his maturation. Wilson has a much higher ceiling imho too. I def. believe JR wanted Wilson and that Wilson was rated higher than Martin.

juice33s
08-25-2012, 03:42 PM
Going in to the draft I really didn't pay too much attention to Wilson due to the fact that the national media had a love fest for Doug Martin, but looking back on it I realize how silly that really was.

We're talking about a guy with elite athleticism who was the ACC player of the year and led the nation in yards after contact (in the same year as Trent Richardson who many regard as the best RB prospect since Peterson).

Somehow Wilson fell through the cracks, but we're lucky he did. Just Like Nicks ended up being the best WR of the 09 class, i think we'll be saying the same thing about Wilson in years to come

Eliscruzzz
08-25-2012, 03:44 PM
wilson had things about his play that stand out, his talent is def. 1rst round material. he is way more athletically gifted than Martin imo.
Martin is an all around back. I think he went 1rst based on how nfl ready he is. he doesnt have that athleticism Wilson has, but he is further into his maturation. Wilson has a much higher ceiling imho too. I def. believe JR wanted Wilson and that Wilson was rated higher than Martin. Yes most def I always thought Wilson was more athletically gifted too. Martin is def.an 3 down back but Wilson looks like he learns quick and I think he will become one too very soon.
I love Bradshaw but Wilson is just wow. and them together I think will make Bradshaw a great back this year we won't be last in ruching this season. You are right though Wilson ceiling is higher with him being able to break it for one anytime,Martin is just a straight runner to me and we already have someone to do that kinda of runner in Bradshaw. That's why if we were to pick a back in the draft I wanted Wilson from the get go.

Eliscruzzz
08-25-2012, 03:47 PM
Going in to the draft I really didn't pay too much attention to Wilson due to the fact that the national media had a love fest for Doug Martin, but looking back on it I realize how silly that really was.

We're talking about a guy with elite athleticism who was the ACC player of the year and led the nation in yards after contact (in the same year as Trent Richardson who many regard as the best RB prospect since Peterson).

Somehow Wilson fell through the cracks, but we're lucky he did. Just Like Nicks ended up being the best WR of the 09 class, i think we'll be saying the same thing about Wilson in years to come Really? maybe it cause I like watching the Hookies so I knew about Wilson I really didn't want Martin he a nice back but Wilson I think can be great Wilson has not saying he is but has Barry Sanders qualities.

JSpin
08-25-2012, 04:34 PM
I do too. Jerry likes the players with freak athletic abilities. Besides we already have our Bradshaw who is almost identical to Martin in how he runs the ball. Wilson's speed and explosiveness is a good complement to Bradshaws powerful running style.

rainierjef
08-25-2012, 05:26 PM
lol.......

Axels17
08-25-2012, 05:33 PM
I might be in the minority, but I never doubted this once he said it...

dave56dj
08-25-2012, 05:52 PM
Going into the draft i watched a lot of tape on DT'S RB'S and TE'S. David Wilson's tape stood out more then any other players - including Martin and Richardson. Guy was a home run threat almost every time he had the ball. First guy never took him down. And say what you want about the back flips but it definitely does show the kid has amazing athleticism. He may not be as polished, just yet, and i know its far far to early, but i said it since we drafted him, this kid will be the best back of all the 2012 dratees. He is simply faster and shiftier then them all. Once he gets the blitz pick ups down he will be a guy who you can run an offense through. I know it's a lot of hype but I don't come out and praise every pick like i do this one - that said I think Rees nailed it with the top 3 picks. I think hosley is the nickel/ punt returner this year and randle takes the third wr spot halfway through the year.

Redeyejedi
08-25-2012, 06:04 PM
Wilson is the physically more impressive back far more explosive. His instincts on the other hand are so so. He can be indecisive and isnt nearly as instinctual as Martin.

dave56dj
08-25-2012, 06:07 PM
he's looked pretty darn instinctual this whole preseason.

TheEnigma
08-25-2012, 06:09 PM
The issue I had with him coming out of college was his habit of dancing in the backfield too often at times when he should of just went north. That looks like it has been corrected earlier than I expected.

derekunion28
08-25-2012, 06:10 PM
kid looks really good

dave56dj
08-25-2012, 06:15 PM
I think wilson still has that shake and bake in him and will take a negative every now and then - but that is similar to tiki and shady - they have the raw skill to go east west and make something out of nothing and sometimes it causes a negative but in the long term its counterbalanced by the sideline to sideline runs that gain positives where most back get stuffed. Tiki changed directions and went away from the blockers so often b/c he could. Wilson seems like he can to as can mccoy - again you have to take the negative loss every now and then too.

GoDeep80
08-25-2012, 06:23 PM
Wilson's ability to create and make something out of nothing is what the Giants wanted. Martin is a back that will only succeed if he has decent holes while Wilson can create a play out of nothing, which with this O-line is what he'll get most of the time.

nycsportzfan
08-25-2012, 06:36 PM
i still think Doug Martin would of been a giant had he been on the board.. All that said, it dosen't mean hes gonna be better or whatever, but thats how i feel.. I don't think Tampa made it a point to trade right in front of the GIANTS unless they knew something or heard something.. They could of waited and traded up in the 2nd..

nycsportzfan
08-25-2012, 06:37 PM
Martin looks like a beast as well, just in case some didn't know that.. I think he had 13carries 53yrd 1td last night in a win against the Pats.. Hes all ready tossed Legarette Blount to the side and is pretty much there starter..

rainierjef
08-25-2012, 06:38 PM
Wilson is the physically more impressive back far more explosive. His instincts on the other hand are so so. He can be indecisive and isnt nearly as instinctual as Martin.

my question to you is this. if wilson and Martin are available, who do you pick?
Enigma i would also like your answer on this as well.

rainierjef
08-25-2012, 06:49 PM
i still think Doug Martin would of been a giant had he been on the board.. All that said, it dosen't mean hes gonna be better or whatever, but thats how i feel.. I don't think Tampa made it a point to trade right in front of the GIANTS unless they knew something or heard something.. They could of waited and traded up in the 2nd..

i agree. i think tampa jumping in front of the giants gave hint to the fact that they suspected the giants were high on martin probably or they thought that a team in the second round would of picked martin and traded with denver cause the giants damn sure wasn't trading back into the second at their spot, i personally think if it wasn't martin the giants would of drafted fleener, but reese thought there was going to be a run on RB's in the second round due to tampa jumping in front so they took wilson. this is not a knock on the guy but i am speculating my theory as we don't know what would of happened had tampa not jumped in front.

dave56dj
08-25-2012, 06:52 PM
Wilson - I think he is gonna be better. Teams trade up all the time in fear. Doesn't mean the gmen were gonna go with martin. I will say this Couglin is very conservative in that he doesnt believe in the trick play/ he is more about sound fundamental football. East west doesnt interest him and if you do it you better get positive yards. Same with punt duties - to him the operation of the catch is more important then anything else. Not that he wont open it up and pass - but he isn't running flee flicker or a double reverse - gmen are gonna beat you with good sound straight up football no gimmicks or flash - martin may fit that better then wilson - but to me wilson will be the better back and so I would pick wilson.

TheEnigma
08-25-2012, 07:02 PM
my question to you is this. if wilson and Martin are available, who do you pick?
Enigma i would also like your answer on this as well.

Without hindsight, it would of been Martin without a doubt. I did see more of his work and the few tapes I watched of Wilson, he looked like a completely different and raw player than he is now with the Giants.

Using hindsight now for our 1st round pick, it would be a hard choice between Wilson and Glenn. Wilson has that electrifying element to his gameplay where can always be a threat to break out a 20+ run at a moment's notice but at the same time, I was really impressed with what I saw Glenn do against Jared Allen and Brian Orakpo so far this season.

Wilson will probably have the best career out of all three of those guys just because the Giants franchise gives him that opportunity with a superior supporting cast.

Flip Empty
08-25-2012, 07:19 PM
I might be in the minority, but I never doubted this once he said it...
Neither. I knew little about him, but after reading his scouting report I thought he sounded like a perfect fit for the offense. He sounded like a quicker Matt Forte.

twinlakes91
08-25-2012, 09:58 PM
Wilson has qualities you simply cannot teach. I am telling you, this guy is going to be awesome good, and dare I say great. :o He is only going to get stronger physically. He is already mentally tough. He has the "knack" for bouncing off tacklers. And his acceleration through holes is nice to see. .....Brandon who ?? :confused:

nycsportzfan
08-25-2012, 10:54 PM
Without hindsight, it would of been Martin without a doubt. I did see more of his work and the few tapes I watched of Wilson, he looked like a completely different and raw player than he is now with the Giants.

Using hindsight now for our 1st round pick, it would be a hard choice between Wilson and Glenn. Wilson has that electrifying element to his gameplay where can always be a threat to break out a 20+ run at a moment's notice but at the same time, I was really impressed with what I saw Glenn do against Jared Allen and Brian Orakpo so far this season.

Wilson will probably have the best career out of all three of those guys just because the Giants franchise gives him that opportunity with a superior supporting cast. Ya, i thought the value on Glenn with the last pick in RD 1 was phenomanel and in Draft thread u can see thats who i wanted.. I liked Wilson but thought the value was alittle weak at that point.. Again, i still like Wilson, and the more i see, the more the value looks to be there as a late 1st rder, so i'm ok, but Cordy Glenn would of been my choice and he'd of been perfect at Right or LT..

titwio
08-25-2012, 11:02 PM
I posted this on Feb. 6th the day after the Super Bowl.







I'll probably get hated on but I want David Wilson with the 32nd. I think he'll be the BPA. I've stated this in other threads but he's highly athletic, high character guy and team leader who can also contribute on ST's. With BJ most likely gone he gives the Giants a solid #2 RB who is explosive and has great hands out the backfield.







I was hyping Wilson all off season and if I were the GM I would've took Wilson over Martin...but that's just me. For most of the offseason last year Wilson was rated higher than Martin and it wasn't until about a month prior to the draft Martin over took Wilson on draft boards. For a long time Wilson was mocked to go somewhere in the mid to late twenties of the 1st round.

I don't know why Wilson dropped on some boards...especially after the combine numbers he put up.

BigBlue1971
08-25-2012, 11:06 PM
JR said Wilson rated higher on their board than Martin! i'll take his word for it right now.

actually between Richardson, Martin and Wilson during the preseason i think Wilson has the edge and he could out to be the better pro!

nycsportzfan
08-25-2012, 11:10 PM
I posted this on Feb. 6th the day after the Super Bowl.



I was hyping Wilson all off season and if I were the GM I would've took Wilson over Martin...but that's just me. For most of the offseason last year Wilson was rated higher than Martin and it wasn't until about a month prior to the draft Martin over took Wilson on draft boards. For a long time Wilson was mocked to go somewhere in the mid to late twenties of the 1st round.

I don't know why Wilson dropped...especially after the combine numbers he put up. Thats not true at all.. Redeye, Blue Santa and a few others will tell u i was saying Martin was gonna rise past everyone but Richardson 3months before the draft.. All u had to do is watch Martin and his overall game, and his ridiculous frame(straight body builder!), and it was clear as day in my opinion.. Sometimes the rankings are just skewed for most of the yr, as the games go on and theres time after the season to really study all the prospects, things get more in order.. It happens every yr with alot more then just Doug Martin..
Shoot, i remember saying Whitney Mercilus was a guranteed 1st rder when most boards still had em as a late 2nd rder.. And in a matter of time, he was.. Sometimes it just happens like that..

I personally don't remember anyone outside of Blue Santa raving about David Wilson all off season, but thats not to say i just simply forgot..

nycsportzfan
08-25-2012, 11:13 PM
JR said Wilson rated higher on their board than Martin! i'll take his word for it right now.

actually between Richardson, Martin and Wilson during the preseason i think Wilson has the edge and he could out to be the better pro! I think both martin and wilson have been pretty brilliant.. The one thing WIlson's got going for him is a much better passing game, so it makes things alot harder for defenses to key in on.. The bucs pass game isn't nearly as good, and makes it alittle easier to key in on the run.. Thats why having ELI is so fantastic..

TheEnigma
08-25-2012, 11:18 PM
I personally don't remember anyone outside of Blue Santa raving about David Wilson all off season, but thats not to say i just simply forgot..

There were a few mentions here and there but all of the hype on this board went to Coby Fleener and Dwayne Allen for the most part. Majority of the discussions where about which of those TEs were better and I also recall people predicting DT since the class was so deep for 2012. Riley Reiff and Johnathan Martin entered some discussions near draft day along with Kevin Zeitler.

titwio
08-25-2012, 11:19 PM
Thats not true at all..

Wait... what's not true?

Are you saying Wilson ranked higher than Martin is not true cause I can show you the proof and I can give examples of how many times Mayock's rankings changed. For the longest time he had Wilson rated higher than Martin and about a month or so prior he moved Martin up mostly because of what he was hearing from other teams.

*Oh and here's the proof I wrote what I wrote...Notice the time and date above the post. I can't go back back and find all the posts I made on this forum because it's a new board.
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=479233&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

rainierjef
08-26-2012, 12:18 AM
There were a few mentions here and there but all of the hype on this board went to Coby Fleener and Dwayne Allen for the most part. Majority of the discussions where about which of those TEs were better and I also recall people predicting DT since the class was so deep for 2012. Riley Reiff and Johnathan Martin entered some discussions near draft day along with Kevin Zeitler.
doug martin and james were the hype outside of richardson for the RB's all off season.
i predicted that there wasn't going to be a run on Rb's until late 2nd early 3rd round i said that at least 5 QB's were going to go in the first i was one off. i thought Cousins would of slid in there to arizona pushing the RB's back. i personally think had Tampa not did what they did either wilson/pead/james would of fell into our lap in the second round. giving us either Glenn/fleener/J.Martin/upshaw at 1st not that i think either of these guys ranked higher than wilson but we had a need for TE/RT/LT/OLB.

BigBlueAllDay
08-26-2012, 12:50 AM
According to Jerry Reese's Final Draft Analysis, Wilson was their guy and Tampa Bay jumping in front to get D. Martin was not a factor. Pretty much case closed on any speculations.

http://www.giants.com/media-vault/videos/Final-Draft-Analysis-GM-Jerry-Reese/e40d2969-aec5-4eea-9f51-cd147cb3ca2f

Check out some of the other videoes on the Giants.com website. They can be informative.

Eliscruzzz
08-26-2012, 12:54 AM
Martin looks like a beast as well, just in case some didn't know that.. I think he had 13carries 53yrd 1td last night in a win against the Pats.. Hes all ready tossed Legarette Blount to the side and is pretty much there starter.. yeah but you got to remember Greg Sciano has no ties to blount so he will give the job to martin Giants would never do that to Bradshaw nor would I want them too.

TheShouldersOf
08-26-2012, 01:24 AM
I watched Wilson, Hosley and Randle in Collage, and those three i wanted the Giants to draft,


i'm glad the feeling was mutual

rainierjef
08-26-2012, 01:25 AM
According to Jerry Reese's Final Draft Analysis, Wilson was their guy and Tampa Bay jumping in front to get D. Martin was not a factor. Pretty much case closed on any speculations.

http://www.giants.com/media-vault/videos/Final-Draft-Analysis-GM-Jerry-Reese/e40d2969-aec5-4eea-9f51-cd147cb3ca2f

Check out some of the other videoes on the Giants.com website. They can be informative.
thats easy to say after the fact

gmen0820
08-26-2012, 01:25 AM
yeah but you got to remember Greg Sciano has no ties to blount so he will give the job to martin Giants would never do that to Bradshaw nor would I want them too.You also have to remember that Martin has looked better than Blount, and Martin was only recently named the starter. If he stays healthy, in Schiano/Sullivan's offense, he will top 275 carries.

nycsportzfan
08-26-2012, 03:30 AM
yeah but you got to remember Greg Sciano has no ties to blount so he will give the job to martin Giants would never do that to Bradshaw nor would I want them too. It has nothing at all to do with ties to anyone.. If martin haden't been producing, he'd be behind Blount.. He all ready was behind blount to open the preseason.. Its just obvious hes the all around runner and much better then Blount.. Martins a stud, regardless of what Wilson does..

nycsportzfan
08-26-2012, 04:54 PM
Wait... what's not true?

Are you saying Wilson ranked higher than Martin is not true cause I can show you the proof and I can give examples of how many times Mayock's rankings changed. For the longest time he had Wilson rated higher than Martin and about a month or so prior he moved Martin up mostly because of what he was hearing from other teams.

*Oh and here's the proof I wrote what I wrote...Notice the time and date above the post. I can't go back back and find all the posts I made on this forum because it's a new board.
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=479233&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15 Did u seriously quote only "thats not true at all" from my post???lol Way to skew what i said there pal...lol Like i said in the post as clear as day, is that u could ask draft gurus on here like Blue Santa and Redeye that i completely 100pct knew Martin was gonna rise past guys like Wilson and Miller 3months before the draft.. I fully expected all the experts to catch on and i was saying don't be surprised if he ends up in the 1st rd and the 2nd back taken behind Richardson.. It really wasen't even that hard to see that coming in my opinion.. So, all i was really saying is the rankings change after the yr sometimes when people get time to really evaluate players as theres no more games, and u get to mix in there games with off field workouts.. Sometimes i laugh at the rankings midway through the yr...

And the bottom line is Mayock had Martin ranked as his 17th prospect and Wilson his 33rd by the time it was draftday.. forget being the 2nd ranked rb, he had him as the 17th prospect overall!!!!lol

titwio
08-26-2012, 05:44 PM
Did u seriously quote only "thats not true at all" from my post???lol Way to skew what i said there pal...lol Like i said in the post as clear as day, is that u could ask draft gurus on here like Blue Santa and Redeye that i completely 100pct knew Martin was gonna rise past guys like Wilson and Miller 3months before the draft.. I fully expected all the experts to catch on and i was saying don't be surprised if he ends up in the 1st rd and the 2nd back taken behind Richardson.. It really wasen't even that hard to see that coming in my opinion.. So, all i was really saying is the rankings change after the yr sometimes when people get time to really evaluate players as theres no more games, and u get to mix in there games with off field workouts.. Sometimes i laugh at the rankings midway through the yr...

And the bottom line is Mayock had Martin ranked as his 17th prospect and Wilson his 33rd by the time it was draftday.. forget being the 2nd ranked rb, he had him as the 17th prospect overall!!!!lol

Nowhere in my post did I say anything about the "draft gurus" on this site disagreeing or being wrong about anything...skewing what you said? I simply didn't understand what "wasn't true at all" from what I wrote and asked you a question since it was the first thing you wrote after my post and had me confused.

No matter if Mayock had Martin at 17 and Wilson at 33 come draft, my point was that he did have Wilson rated higher for most of the year and Wilson only helped himself big time by putting up those insane combine numbers...All I said clearly was I didn't understand why Wilson dropped after a performance which should have only helped him (combine). I understand perfectly that when crunch time rolls around in April players move up and down but I really didn't see that much that should have made people question David Wilson as first round material like some were acting like when the Giants drafted him.

giantsfan420
08-26-2012, 06:42 PM
Nowhere in my post did I say anything about the "draft gurus" on this site disagreeing or being wrong about anything...skewing what you said? I simply didn't understand what "wasn't true at all" from what I wrote and asked you a question since it was the first thing you wrote after my post and had me confused.

No matter if Mayock had Martin at 17 and Wilson at 33 come draft, my point was that he did have Wilson rated higher for most of the year and Wilson only helped himself big time by putting up those insane combine numbers...All I said clearly was I didn't understand why Wilson dropped after a performance which should have only helped him (combine). I understand perfectly that when crunch time rolls around in April players move up and down but I really didn't see that much that should have made people question David Wilson as first round material like some were acting like when the Giants drafted him.

well said. i agree. and it wasnt just wilson somehow took a psychological hit in the scouts minds, but Martin rose with inferior numbers and imo, not as impressive game tape. if mayock had martin at 17 and wilson at 33, then I gotta say, he dropped a couple pegs in my book. in what aspect is martin superior to wilson? bc it certainly isnt athletically or physically, perhaps mentally but thats obviously bc Martin is much closer to reaching his ceiling while Wilsons ceiling is much higher...eh whatever, i dont care what anyone thinks or says, they wont convince me martin is anywhere near as electric a runner as wilson. its like we supplanted Jacobs effect on the team with those big trucking runs with Wilson and his lightning quick, thundrous power runs...anyone else get pumped up watching Wilson run? Almost like it felt when Jacobs ran over someone.

TheEnigma
08-26-2012, 06:57 PM
well said. i agree. and it wasnt just wilson somehow took a psychological hit in the scouts minds, but Martin rose with inferior numbers and imo, not as impressive game tape. if mayock had martin at 17 and wilson at 33, then I gotta say, he dropped a couple pegs in my book. in what aspect is martin superior to wilson? bc it certainly isnt athletically or physically, perhaps mentally but thats obviously bc Martin is much closer to reaching his ceiling while Wilsons ceiling is much higher...eh whatever, i dont care what anyone thinks or says, they wont convince me martin is anywhere near as electric a runner as wilson. its like we supplanted Jacobs effect on the team with those big trucking runs with Wilson and his lightning quick, thundrous power runs...anyone else get pumped up watching Wilson run? Almost like it felt when Jacobs ran over someone.

The rankings really weren't from a physical numbers standpoint but rather how much more polished Martin was versus Wilson coming out of college. Wilson as we all know had some tremendous runs at VT but also some equally horrendous ones as well and not to mention, his running style was a little unorthodox for the NFL.

The good thing is that Wilson already looks like he's made the necessary changes and we might not have him dancing in the backfield as much as I originally expected. Props to Coach Ingram and Wilson on the work done so far.

Redeyejedi
08-26-2012, 08:45 PM
The rankings really weren't from a physical numbers standpoint but rather how much more polished Martin was versus Wilson coming out of college. Wilson as we all know had some tremendous runs at VT but also some equally horrendous ones as well and not to mention, his running style was a little unorthodox for the NFL.

The good thing is that Wilson already looks like he's made the necessary changes and we might not have him dancing in the backfield as much as I originally expected. Props to Coach Ingram and Wilson on the work done so far.

This is it basically. Some scouts werent all that high on Wilson because his instincts are just so so. Some loved Wilson because physically speaking he is a elite prospect. He plays hard, runs through tackles, he has outstanding balance and is very fast. The thing that bothered me on tape about Wilson is he didnt have the vision of an elite back.He didnt have a great feel for how a play develops. He relied more on physical skill with brute force and speed. Wilson is extremely talented but he is rough around the edges. Martin while not as physically gifted is extremely polished. he can come in Start day 1 as a 3 down back. He has elite vision and instincts. My worries about Wilson were that in the NFL the physical skill gap would close some and if he didnt learn to play the position better he would bust.

rainierjef
08-26-2012, 10:07 PM
This is it basically. Some scouts werent all that high on Wilson because his instincts are just so so. Some loved Wilson because physically speaking he is a elite prospect. He plays hard, runs through tackles, he has outstanding balance and is very fast. The thing that bothered me on tape about Wilson is he didnt have the vision of an elite back.He didnt have a great feel for how a play develops. He relied more on physical skill with brute force and speed. Wilson is extremely talented but he is rough around the edges. Martin while not as physically gifted is extremely polished. he can come in Start day 1 as a 3 down back. He has elite vision and instincts. My worries about Wilson were that in the NFL the physical skill gap would close some and if he didnt learn to play the position better he would bust.


And this... is why i found it hard to believe that Wilosn was rated higher than martin on reese's boards.

BlueSanta
08-26-2012, 10:33 PM
This is it basically. Some scouts werent all that high on Wilson because his instincts are just so so. Some loved Wilson because physically speaking he is a elite prospect. He plays hard, runs through tackles, he has outstanding balance and is very fast. The thing that bothered me on tape about Wilson is he didnt have the vision of an elite back.He didnt have a great feel for how a play develops. He relied more on physical skill with brute force and speed. Wilson is extremely talented but he is rough around the edges. Martin while not as physically gifted is extremely polished. he can come in Start day 1 as a 3 down back. He has elite vision and instincts. My worries about Wilson were that in the NFL the physical skill gap would close some and if he didnt learn to play the position better he would bust.
This is not true. Most scouts had Wilson ahead of Martin going into the senior bowl. Martin's all around (blocking,catching recieving) week at the senior bowl practice week had him moving up. However, Wilson, being a junior was unable to show his wares there.

Martin was a late riser this offseason. At the end of the college season I think a good majority of scouts had Wilson above Martin.

What I do not understand is why people find it so hard to believe Reese like Wilson more. Wilson does , after all, have more of the qualities he tends to look for.

He produced more against better competition.

He is a high quality character(both do actually) but Wilson's professionalism stood out according to all at the combine. He was the only player who put a suit on for interviews.

Wilson's explosion ratings at the combine were off the charts and blew away every other RB at the combine(Reese has paid attention to this in the past.)

Wilson was an offensive leader as well as the focal point of his college offense, Martin was not, Kellen Moore was the focal point and the BSU short passing attack.

Wilson is almost 2 years younger than Martin. Giants have valued youth in round 1 recently(KP, JPP, Nicks)

A lot of the qualities listed are things Reese has mentioned or shown to be things he looks for.

I said long ago, prior to the combine, in the "who are Reese type players?" thread that I thought Wilson was a Reese type guy. I just do not see why this is so hard to believe since he exhibits all the qualities.

I do agree that Martin was likely more prepared to be a day 1 full time starter. But the Giants have rarely every drafted based on who would be the most help on day 1.

TheEnigma
08-26-2012, 11:36 PM
I don't think Reese was lying about having Wilson rated higher than Martin. Wilson was sort of like the JPP of RBs in that he needed coaching work but has the physical attributes to be a top 5 RB in the NFL.

Here's how I think it went down - The Giants were extremely impressed not only with Wilson's football abilities but with the carry he carried himself in interviews displaying his good character and professionalism. Reese probably thought that Wilson would end being their 2nd round pick at one point or thought that he could trade back into the 2nd to acquire him. That's why you heard him mention something about trading back for the "motherload" at one point because he probably thought that 32nd overall wasn't the best value for Wilson. Failing to come to an agreement with another team, Reese decided that they would have to take Wilson now as he thought that he wouldn't be available for 64th overall, hence the "We think there's going to be a run on RB's" comment.

The bigger question I have now is if the Bucs took someone who wasn't a RB instead of Martin, would we have taken someone else instead of Wilson?

titwio
08-27-2012, 12:12 AM
This is not true. Most scouts had Wilson ahead of Martin going into the senior bowl. Martin's all around (blocking,catching recieving) week at the senior bowl practice week had him moving up. However, Wilson, being a junior was unable to show his wares there.

Martin was a late riser this offseason. At the end of the college season I think a good majority of scouts had Wilson above Martin.

What I do not understand is why people find it so hard to believe Reese like Wilson more. Wilson does , after all, have more of the qualities he tends to look for.

He produced more against better competition.

He is a high quality character(both do actually) but Wilson's professionalism stood out according to all at the combine. He was the only player who put a suit on for interviews.

Wilson's explosion ratings at the combine were off the charts and blew away every other RB at the combine(Reese has paid attention to this in the past.)

Wilson was an offensive leader as well as the focal point of his college offense, Martin was not, Kellen Moore was the focal point and the BSU short passing attack.

Wilson is almost 2 years younger than Martin. Giants have valued youth in round 1 recently(KP, JPP, Nicks)

A lot of the qualities listed are things Reese has mentioned or shown to be things he looks for.

I said long ago, prior to the combine, in the "who are Reese type players?" thread that I thought Wilson was a Reese type guy. I just do not see why this is so hard to believe since he exhibits all the qualities.

I do agree that Martin was likely more prepared to be a day 1 full time starter. But the Giants have rarely every drafted based on who would be the most help on day 1.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. Earlier in the year I was saying Wilson could be a Reese guy as well, mainly because of the interest Reese took in CJ Spiller a few years back. Wilson just came across to me in the same mold where he brought so much to the table being, an extremely athletic RB with great explosion & play making abilities who also was a threat on ST's...add that to the leadership qualities and the hard working driven character and I thought it was VERY possible he could end up in blue.

Like I said before I agree with a lot of points you made and the fact that Wilson did blow away other RB's at the combine should have only helped his stock...yet people were acting like the Giants were reaching for him with the 32nd pick.

I just found that baffling.

rainierjef
08-27-2012, 12:45 AM
The bigger question I have now is if the Bucs took someone who wasn't a RB instead of Martin, would we have taken someone else instead of Wilson?

this is all i've ever wanted to know.

Giantsfan241
08-27-2012, 01:28 AM
JR did not want Wilson, Wilson is very good rap star unlike Martin, Wilson will retire soon and pursue multi billions in record and endorsement deals and he will take Cruz and they will be the rappin and dancin posse of nyc.

nycsportzfan
08-27-2012, 12:56 PM
Nowhere in my post did I say anything about the "draft gurus" on this site disagreeing or being wrong about anything...skewing what you said? I simply didn't understand what "wasn't true at all" from what I wrote and asked you a question since it was the first thing you wrote after my post and had me confused.

No matter if Mayock had Martin at 17 and Wilson at 33 come draft, my point was that he did have Wilson rated higher for most of the year and Wilson only helped himself big time by putting up those insane combine numbers...All I said clearly was I didn't understand why Wilson dropped after a performance which should have only helped him (combine). I understand perfectly that when crunch time rolls around in April players move up and down but I really didn't see that much that should have made people question David Wilson as first round material like some were acting like when the Giants drafted him. well obviously u edited ur post.. Yesterday when i posted on ur post it was u quoting only this from my last post "thats not true at all".. I hate when people quote one little thing that takes away from the entire post..

B&RWarrior
08-27-2012, 03:12 PM
Just from comparing their 2 highlights Wilson seems to have a slight edge as far being a home run threat. Martin is the more proven receiving threat. I think Reese was being honest when he says Wilson was the back he wanted above all others. A lot of posters wanted Martin and were crying in their beer when we didn't draft him- that is before Wilson's performance.

Call it luck or call it a lie that we had Wilson ranked #1 RB it looks like the jackpot so for the NYG, but for Reese it's just business as usual.

Eliscruzzz
08-27-2012, 03:18 PM
It has nothing at all to do with ties to anyone.. If martin haden't been producing, he'd be behind Blount.. He all ready was behind blount to open the preseason.. Its just obvious hes the all around runner and much better then Blount.. Martins a stud, regardless of what Wilson does.. How can you say that when Wilson so far has outplayed Bradshaw anyone can see this down the road he will be #! but the Giants are loyal to him but will still use Wilson.Ever team uses a two back system so will the Buccs Blount has not played poorly either

Eliscruzzz
08-27-2012, 03:20 PM
It has nothing at all to do with ties to anyone.. If martin haden't been producing, he'd be behind Blount.. He all ready was behind blount to open the preseason.. Its just obvious hes the all around runner and much better then Blount.. Martins a stud, regardless of what Wilson does.. Not saying Wilson is not just saying that for our team Wilson is the better fit and Wilson will be a stud no matter what Martin does.

Redeyejedi
08-27-2012, 05:29 PM
This is not true. Most scouts had Wilson ahead of Martin going into the senior bowl. Martin's all around (blocking,catching recieving) week at the senior bowl practice week had him moving up. However, Wilson, being a junior was unable to show his wares there.

Martin was a late riser this offseason. At the end of the college season I think a good majority of scouts had Wilson above Martin.

What I do not understand is why people find it so hard to believe Reese like Wilson more. Wilson does , after all, have more of the qualities he tends to look for.

He produced more against better competition.

He is a high quality character(both do actually) but Wilson's professionalism stood out according to all at the combine. He was the only player who put a suit on for interviews.

Wilson's explosion ratings at the combine were off the charts and blew away every other RB at the combine(Reese has paid attention to this in the past.)

Wilson was an offensive leader as well as the focal point of his college offense, Martin was not, Kellen Moore was the focal point and the BSU short passing attack.

Wilson is almost 2 years younger than Martin. Giants have valued youth in round 1 recently(KP, JPP, Nicks)

A lot of the qualities listed are things Reese has mentioned or shown to be things he looks for.

I said long ago, prior to the combine, in the "who are Reese type players?" thread that I thought Wilson was a Reese type guy. I just do not see why this is so hard to believe since he exhibits all the qualities.

I do agree that Martin was likely more prepared to be a day 1 full time starter. But the Giants have rarely every drafted based on who would be the most help on day 1. Love how u say what I said isnt true then go off on an argument that has nothing to do with what I said.

titwio
08-27-2012, 05:41 PM
Love how u say what I said isnt true then go off on an argument that has nothing to do with what I said.

I had a similar experience....although I agree with what BlueSanta said.

TheEnigma
08-27-2012, 05:47 PM
Did you like raw ability and potential more? You rated Wilson higher.

Did you like a more experienced and polished product? You rated Martin higher.

nycsportzfan
08-27-2012, 06:05 PM
How can you say that when Wilson so far has outplayed Bradshaw anyone can see this down the road he will be #! but the Giants are loyal to him but will still use Wilson.Ever team uses a two back system so will the Buccs Blount has not played poorly either dude, he all ready lost his starting job to Martin..lol He has outplayed blount... On top of that, Martin hasen't been coming off the field in short yardage downs or goal line downs! Hes a complete back who easily stole the starting job from blount and has only tipped the iceberg.. Again, i don't care what Wilson does, it dosnet change the fact that Martin is gonna be a beast!

nycsportzfan
08-27-2012, 06:11 PM
And this... is why i found it hard to believe that Wilosn was rated higher than martin on reese's boards. Its also one of the only things i really didn't care about Wilson is the fact so many times it seemed he'd lose 10yrds on a play he should of lost 1 at most.. I mean, its great that he wants to make something happen, but when ur doing it at the teams expense, u gotta be smarter then that.. I didn't hate the pick , i just felt there was better value, while also saying i am intrigued to see what wilson brings as he certainly has some weapons in his arsenal..

I definetly think he'll perform better with the Giants then he would with the bucs, because hes with a better all around offense here, that is so explosive passing the ball , u can't even think about leaving the pass outta ur mind for a second! The bucs on the other hand had a dreadful season passing the ball and it makes it that much harder to run the ball, in which u need a grinder back , which i think Martin is a tad more then Wilson.. I see Doug Martin getting 20carries a game almost immedietly.. Again, i like Wilson now more then i did, but if u read the Draft thread, i don't hate wilson.. Just thought there were more backs similar to Wilson then there was Martin..

BlueSanta
08-27-2012, 09:01 PM
Love how u say what I said isnt true then go off on an argument that has nothing to do with what I said.

You mention the problem "some scouts" had with his game. I took exceptions to those remarks. The rest of my post was a general reply.

But, how does a vast majority of scouts having Wilson as the #2 back in college football going into the senior bowl not counter your point about "some scouts" not liking his instincts? Furthermore, most scouts had him as a better pure runner than Martin but felt that Martins all around game made him more likely to be a day 1 starter.

If he is a better pure runner than Martin, as most scouts seemed to think, how are his instincts and vision a problem, especially in the realm of comparing them to Martin as this thread is intended to do? He wouldnt be a better pure runner if his instincts and vision were worse than Martin.

I just do not agree with your opinion, or that of whatever scout that you are referring to, questioning his instincts and vision. This is a response I have been making to you for months on this kid.


.

BlueSanta
08-27-2012, 09:07 PM
Its also one of the only things i really didn't care about Wilson is the fact so many times it seemed he'd lose 10yrds on a play he should of lost 1 at most.

This was the most fair criticism I found for Wilson. However, it was never a huge problem for me because I always felt many of the problems people had with Wilson's run style and his losses were a product of the VT offense as well as him just being 20 years old. I also felt VTs offense was the reason people used to say "he bounces it outside too much."

That offense is constantly trying to get the edge vs the defense. They run more off tackle or sweeps than anyone else I can think of as well as counters. Anytime a team is trying to get the edge there are greater risks for bigger loss than a dive run. Of course, there are greater chances of big plays too. When asked to run inside Wilson was extremely effective. It is just VT doesn't do it as much.

As many have noted, Wilson led the nation in Yards after initial contact.

Eliscruzzz
08-28-2012, 02:16 PM
Its also one of the only things i really didn't care about Wilson is the fact so many times it seemed he'd lose 10yrds on a play he should of lost 1 at most.. I mean, its great that he wants to make something happen, but when ur doing it at the teams expense, u gotta be smarter then that.. I didn't hate the pick , i just felt there was better value, while also saying i am intrigued to see what wilson brings as he certainly has some weapons in his arsenal..

I definetly think he'll perform better with the Giants then he would with the bucs, because hes with a better all around offense here, that is so explosive passing the ball , u can't even think about leaving the pass outta ur mind for a second! The bucs on the other hand had a dreadful season passing the ball and it makes it that much harder to run the ball, in which u need a grinder back , which i think Martin is a tad more then Wilson.. I see Doug Martin getting 20carries a game almost immedietly.. Again, i like Wilson now more then i did, but if u read the Draft thread, i don't hate wilson.. Just thought there were more backs similar to Wilson then there was Martin.. I'm not trying to change your mind about Martin all I'm saying is that there is more upside to Wilson's game, I get it he's a complete back but just because Martin is not yet doesn't mean that Martin is soooo much better, but that's your opinion and I respectfully disagree.

nycsportzfan
08-29-2012, 11:41 AM
I'm not trying to change your mind about Martin all I'm saying is that there is more upside to Wilson's game, I get it he's a complete back but just because Martin is not yet doesn't mean that Martin is soooo much better, but that's your opinion and I respectfully disagree. I just see Doug Martin in a similar style as Ray Rice, whos probably my favorite all around back in the NFL.. He can get u tough yards on short yardage situations, split out as a wr, catch screens, block..etc Martin also can return kicks, and his body is perfectly built for the punishment of the NFL.. As far as upside, i don't think Martin can have the most upside because hes all ready gonna be a beast and its known.. Meaning, i don't think someguys have as much upside because there all ready more of a sure thing

nycsportzfan
08-29-2012, 11:51 AM
I'm not trying to change your mind about Martin all I'm saying is that there is more upside to Wilson's game, I get it he's a complete back but just because Martin is not yet doesn't mean that Martin is soooo much better, but that's your opinion and I respectfully disagree. ya, theres no one changing my mind about Doug Martin.. As soon as i dug in and really starting researching him months before the draft, i just coulden't believe where he was ranked and just knew he was gonna fly up boards.. Again, i like David Wilson, and i think Wilson is with the right team as the Giants pass offense is outter worldly and that will certainly help him with the mixing in timely runs, which i think is the kinda offense wilson fits in best with.. I just don't think the giants are a run first team or anywhere close to that anymore, and i think Wilson fits in ridiculously well in that kinda offense.. I think teams like the Giants, Packers, Pats, and Saints are the perfect teams for a guy like David Wilson.. Hes gonna be good here..

I'm really looking forward to watching Wilson, so don't get that mixed up.. Any worries i had about him are basically over and i'm more just excited to see em play now.. I think the Value for Wilson, which was my biggest knock with the pick is gonna end up looking fine by seasons end, because of his production and obvious look of a back that will be the future starter, which is all u can ask for.. At the time i didn't like the value with the way our oline looked last yr and having guys like Cordy Glenn still on the board(Glenn has been great as well this preseason just to be known)...