PDA

View Full Version : The Cowboys Don't Have The Juice To Stay With Big Blue



BlueBlitzer
08-26-2012, 05:22 PM
Who would you rather have Dez or Nicks ( Nicks all day long )
Who would you rather have Romo or Eli ( Same deal )
Who would you rather have Ware Or Jason Pierre Paul ( Condisering we also have Tuck, Osi, and Kiwi. This question becomes sillier and sillier )
Webster or any one of their corners ? ( yeah the rookie too )
Rolle or any Cowboy safety
Considering the RBs might be a tie ( Although We'll stay with AB and DW )
I cannot see the Cowboys going " Blow For Blow " with The Giants in a game. ( No pun intended, but we have more Stars than they do )

Moke
08-26-2012, 05:26 PM
By "Romo or Eli (same deal) " you mean you would take either/or? Eli > Romo

Ntegrase96
08-27-2012, 11:25 AM
By "Romo or Eli (same deal) " you mean you would take either/or? Eli > Romo

I think he means same deal as in (Eli all day), Just like he did for Nicks.


Can't say I disagree with this post (except for the Ware v JPP, and Webster being better than Carr).

But I don't think the gap is as large as the title of the thread implies.

Moke
08-27-2012, 11:27 AM
I think he means same deal as in (Eli all day), Just like he did for Nicks.


Can't say I disagree with this post (except for the Ware v JPP, and Webster being better than Carr).

But I don't think the gap is as large as the title of the thread implies.


Yeah thanks, I think that's what he meant as well. Division rivals never have a huge gap IMO. I think the Cowboys can have a team built like Browns and still destroy us. **** like that happens with the NFC East

Ntegrase96
08-27-2012, 11:34 AM
Yeah thanks, I think that's what he meant as well. Division rivals never have a huge gap IMO. I think the Cowboys can have a team built like Browns and still destroy us. **** like that happens with the NFC East

I think the only lopsided games are between the Eagles and Cowboys. Cowboys dominated in 2009. Eagles have dominated pretty much ever since, last year especially.

Giants5699
08-27-2012, 12:14 PM
JPP is much much much better than Ware. I'd argue JPP is a top 3 defensive player. He will show it this year. His impact will be that big. By the end of his career, he will be considered one of the all time great defensive ends and possibly in a league with Reggie White and Deacon Jones

Ntegrase96
08-27-2012, 12:24 PM
JPP is much much much better than Ware. I'd argue JPP is a top 3 defensive player. He will show it this year. His impact will be that big. By the end of his career, he will be considered one of the all time great defensive ends and possibly in a league with Reggie White and Deacon Jones

Ware is already in Reggie White's company. They don't play the same position, but should Ware get half a sack in one of his first two games this season, he will be the second fastest player to 100 sacks (behind only Reggie).

I think JPP is a tremendous player who will only get better. I believe he has a higher ceiling than Ware. But that doesn't make him the better player already.

Moke
08-27-2012, 01:19 PM
Ware is already in Reggie White's company. They don't play the same position, but should Ware get half a sack in one of his first two games this season, he will be the second fastest player to 100 sacks (behind only Reggie).

I think JPP is a tremendous player who will only get better. I believe he has a higher ceiling than Ware. But that doesn't make him the better player already.

People keep calling JPP the best DE ever and honestly, that is so premature. Kid is good and he proves it time and time again, but to say he's even close to a better player than Ware right now is ridiculous.

He most likely WILL BE better than Ware when both careers are done, but right now, the point is very easy to make only because JPP is younger, but career wise right now... can't even say he's better yet.

Eliscruzzz
08-27-2012, 03:14 PM
I think he means same deal as in (Eli all day), Just like he did for Nicks.


Can't say I disagree with this post (except for the Ware v JPP, and Webster being better than Carr).

But I don't think the gap is as large as the title of the thread implies. I think your wrong about Webster he is the #1 on this team and never played with a number one like Carr.

Ntegrase96
08-27-2012, 04:03 PM
I think your wrong about Webster he is the #1 on this team and never played with a number one like Carr.


Webster is the number 1 corner, but was one of the most targeted corners last year. That could mean a couple of things, but mostly what I take away from that is that his coverage wasn't very tight and that they'd rather throw at him rather than throw at Ross, who was one of the worst CBs in the NFL last year.

I think Webster was very good at one time and is still running off of that merit. He's been average at best since the end of 2008 and is only getting older (he's 30 now).

Whereas Carr has been getting better each year and is just now in his prime at age 26.

Did he benefit from having Flowers? Maybe at one point. Although I think last year you could say the opposite occurred.

I see Carr as a borderline top 10 CB, but I don't think I would have Webster anywhere close to that.

FIFTY6G-MAN
08-27-2012, 04:48 PM
Who would you rather have Dez or Nicks ( Nicks all day long )
Who would you rather have Romo or Eli ( Same deal )
Who would you rather have Ware Or Jason Pierre Paul ( Condisering we also have Tuck, Osi, and Kiwi. This question becomes sillier and sillier )
Webster or any one of their corners ? ( yeah the rookie too )
Rolle or any Cowboy safety
Considering the RBs might be a tie ( Although We'll stay with AB and DW )
I cannot see the Cowboys going " Blow For Blow " with The Giants in a game. ( No pun intended, but we have more Stars than they do )Stars DO NOT make a team, and they certainly DO NOT guarantee a Winning season. Example= Iggles! However I do believe that are team has some stars but more importantly they have unity!!

BlueBlitzer
08-27-2012, 07:55 PM
Sorry, made the thread and headed off to work. Of course I meant Eli. As far as JPP? We are not talking about their Legacies here. I was referring to the here and now. JPP is Lights Out right now. Besides what I meant specifically was ( And maybe should have used a better term like Pass Rusher ) who would you rather have on your team ? Ware is a lot like Osi ( A QB Killer ) JPP ? QB,RB,TE,Hot Dog Vender, it doesn't matter,who ever has the ball He destroys. He blocks kicks, Slaps down balls. There are simply more ways JPP can disrupt a game than Ware does. And please stop comparing Ware to Reggie White who was a DE, Ware is a LBer. So yes in that instance I agree, Ware is better than Boley.

ksmooth22
08-28-2012, 03:15 AM
Who would you rather have Dez or Nicks ( Nicks all day long )
Who would you rather have Romo or Eli ( Same deal )
Who would you rather have Ware Or Jason Pierre Paul ( Condisering we also have Tuck, Osi, and Kiwi. This question becomes sillier and sillier )
Webster or any one of their corners ? ( yeah the rookie too )
Rolle or any Cowboy safety
Considering the RBs might be a tie ( Although We'll stay with AB and DW )
I cannot see the Cowboys going " Blow For Blow " with The Giants in a game. ( No pun intended, but we have more Stars than they do )

I am a die hard big blue fan bro, but umm there corners are way better, are any of them better then Webster noo but they did acquire Carr and claiborne still has to prove himself, but prince is nothing but a bust in my eyes, even if he wasnt injured i would start hosely over him i think hosely is out to be a star in this league, i like the way he covers and he has tremendous speed, think he is hurt tho i have no idea who is going to be playing opposite side of webster against the cowgirls im hoping hosely, but he might be out to, i think i rather see justin tryon over coe and bruce johnson. idk man im kinda scared after losing thomas, prince, and now maybe hosely what the hell are they gonna do only thing that could help us is if austin doesnt play.

Ntegrase96
08-28-2012, 12:08 PM
Sorry, made the thread and headed off to work. Of course I meant Eli. As far as JPP? We are not talking about their Legacies here. I was referring to the here and now. JPP is Lights Out right now. Besides what I meant specifically was ( And maybe should have used a better term like Pass Rusher ) who would you rather have on your team ? Ware is a lot like Osi ( A QB Killer ) JPP ? QB,RB,TE,Hot Dog Vender, it doesn't matter,who ever has the ball He destroys. He blocks kicks, Slaps down balls. There are simply more ways JPP can disrupt a game than Ware does. And please stop comparing Ware to Reggie White who was a DE, Ware is a LBer. So yes in that instance I agree, Ware is better than Boley.


It's cool. That's what MB's are for. I'm the opposite-- usually I post at work and only at work.

Anyway, I wasn't talking about their legacies either, although the more proven you are the better.

Ware is nothing like Osi. If you run at Ware he makes plays and he's STILL a more dangerous pass rusher. And if Ware is dropped back into coverage rather than going after the QB, he covers well.

If you think there are more ways a DE can disrupt a game more than an OLB with better pass rushing skills, you're mistaken. And Ware is not only the best OLB in the league, he's quite possibly the best defensive player period.

gumby74
08-28-2012, 12:17 PM
I honestly think the NFC East is up for grabs next season. The difference between every team save the Redskins is very small. Yeah we won the division and the SB, but given our performance as a whole, I can't say I'm very confident going into next year.

Eliscruzzz
08-28-2012, 02:35 PM
Webster is the number 1 corner, but was one of the most targeted corners last year. That could mean a couple of things, but mostly what I take away from that is that his coverage wasn't very tight and that they'd rather throw at him rather than throw at Ross, who was one of the worst CBs in the NFL last year.

I think Webster was very good at one time and is still running off of that merit. He's been average at best since the end of 2008 and is only getting older (he's 30 now).

Whereas Carr has been getting better each year and is just now in his prime at age 26.

Did he benefit from having Flowers? Maybe at one point. Although I think last year you could say the opposite occurred.

I see Carr as a borderline top 10 CB, but I don't think I would have Webster anywhere close to that. I don't see how you can say he's average at best when it should be the other way around. Carr played in the AFC WEST, name a top 5 WR he covered I can't think of one, Brandon Flowers took care of the top WR's in the AFC west while Carr played off of him yes he's a great #2 I'll give you that but when you compare the WR's Webster and Carr have covered it's not even close. You talk about Webster age as if he's a dinosaur I mean when your 30 I think right now he's coming into his own with more knowledge of the game then Carr you will see that Carr is just a #2 this year he might be a disapointment when he has to cover NFC wr's but only time will tell. You secondary has improved but Carr is not better then Webster maybe in a couple years and that's a big if.

Ntegrase96
08-28-2012, 02:42 PM
I don't see how you can say he's average at best when it should be the other way around. Carr played in the AFC WEST, name a top 5 WR he covered I can't think of one, Brandon Flowers took care of the top WR's in the AFC west while Carr played off of him yes he's a great #2 I'll give you that but when you compare the WR's Webster and Carr have covered it's not even close. You talk about Webster age as if he's a dinosaur I mean when your 30 I think right now he's coming into his own with more knowledge of the game then Carr you will see that Carr is just a #2 this year he might be a disapointment when he has to cover NFC wr's but only time will tell. You secondary has improved but Carr is not better then Webster maybe in a couple years and that's a big if.

I answered this in the other thread you started.

Eliscruzzz
08-28-2012, 02:42 PM
I am a die hard big blue fan bro, but umm there corners are way better, are any of them better then Webster noo but they did acquire Carr and claiborne still has to prove himself, but prince is nothing but a bust in my eyes, even if he wasnt injured i would start hosely over him i think hosely is out to be a star in this league, i like the way he covers and he has tremendous speed, think he is hurt tho i have no idea who is going to be playing opposite side of webster against the cowgirls im hoping hosely, but he might be out to, i think i rather see justin tryon over coe and bruce johnson. idk man im kinda scared after losing thomas, prince, and now maybe hosely what the hell are they gonna do only thing that could help us is if austin doesnt play.Their corner are better cause they are staring a rookie?come bro Claiborne is good but he hasn't faced what he is going to face this year and if Carr isn't better then Webster then how is their corners better, when likely we will have Webster on one side who you said is better then Carr and Prince on the other side in his second year. If you look at secondary as a whole the Giants are definitely better if you include the safety positions.

Ntegrase96
08-28-2012, 02:44 PM
Their corner are better cause they are staring a rookie?come bro Claiborne is good but he hasn't faced what he is going to face this year and if Carr isn't better then Webster then how is their corners better, when likely we will have Webster on one side who you said is better then Carr and Prince on the other side in his second year. If you look at secondary as a whole the Giants are definitely better if you include the safety positions.

Okay, let's call Webster and Carr a push for right now since you and the rest of Giants nation hold Carr accountable for doing his job.

After that...

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Claiborn will be better than Amukamara this season. Jenkins is better than anyone you have as well, and Scandrick is a pretty darn good slot corner.

Eliscruzzz
08-28-2012, 02:47 PM
I answered this in the other thread you started. I know you did but it still to me is still doesn't make sense you can throw all the #'s and stats you want but you have got to look at the competition they have both faced. The Giants have faced the top passers in the league due to the tough schedule every year for the last three year when Carr went against Tebow, Orton, Cambell, Palmer, and Rivers for the last 3 years.

GameTime
08-28-2012, 02:50 PM
without going down the roster either team is certainly capable of beating the other. The Giants have an advantage I think but its not a slam dunk advantage by any means.....

Eliscruzzz
08-28-2012, 02:54 PM
Okay, let's call Webster and Carr a push for right now since you and the rest of Giants nation hold Carr accountable for doing his job.

After that...

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Claiborn will be better than Amukamara this season. Jenkins is better than anyone you have as well, and Scandrick is a pretty darn good slot corner. Yeah Jenkins is better then anyone we have? If they are somuch better then why did they get burned by Eli twice last year I said when you combine the whole secondary the Giants are better you can't really say that Claiborne is better then Prince cause Prince did more then Clay has done in the NFL as of right now I get it you want to justify your 1st round pick but lets wait until he plays a game 1st Prince did play very well last year in the playoffs did you watch him in the Championship game against San Fran,or against Green Bay high powered offense, he was awesome against Atlanta stud wr's oh yeah he didn't do that back against your team in the last game of the regular season so he was coming along nice last year and just because Clay was a higher draft pick doesn't by any means, mean he is better let's wait on that.

Ntegrase96
08-28-2012, 03:36 PM
I know you did but it still to me is still doesn't make sense you can throw all the #'s and stats you want but you have got to look at the competition they have both faced. The Giants have faced the top passers in the league due to the tough schedule every year for the last three year when Carr went against Tebow, Orton, Cambell, Palmer, and Rivers for the last 3 years.


Well that covers 6 games a year... who do they play for the other 10?

Ntegrase96
08-28-2012, 03:41 PM
Yeah Jenkins is better then anyone we have? If they are somuch better then why did they get burned by Eli twice last year I said when you combine the whole secondary the Giants are better you can't really say that Claiborne is better then Prince cause Prince did more then Clay has done in the NFL as of right now I get it you want to justify your 1st round pick but lets wait until he plays a game 1st Prince did play very well last year in the playoffs did you watch him in the Championship game against San Fran,or against Green Bay high powered offense, he was awesome against Atlanta stud wr's oh yeah he didn't do that back against your team in the last game of the regular season so he was coming along nice last year and just because Clay was a higher draft pick doesn't by any means, mean he is better let's wait on that.

Well seeing how they burned newman on most of the occasions (not a Cowboy any longer) and Jenkins could barely lift his arm above his head I think things will be a bit different.

You also are yet again without TT and Ross is gone now as well (even though he was bad). So you have Webster and Amukamara and who else?

Do you deny that Jenkins is not better than the people you have after Webster??

It's not me justifying our first round selection. Claiborne has looked pretty good. I'm not saying he's better now, but I don't think being better than Amukamara by the end of the year is a hard mountain to climb.

Eliscruzzz
08-28-2012, 04:09 PM
]Well since you want to put rookies into the equation we have hosley how can do everything claiborne does don't count himout plus Michael Coe has surprised me don't be shocked if you see him oh and I also I read a report today that Thomas is going to play this season just not the opener even though he is shooting to play in that game so when everyone is healthy you got Webster, TT2, Prince, Coe, and Hosley paired with one of the top safeties in the league with Kenny Phillips and Rolle yes I think our secondary is better then your's, plus isn't Jenkins hurt too he's not going to be ready for the opener either so what are you talking about?

Eliscruzzz
08-28-2012, 04:22 PM
Well that covers 6 games a year... who do they play for the other 10? the other 10 he has done very well, like I said remember he never played with a Brandon Flowers, so................I don't know what to tell you I just think it's funny that Cowboy fans think he's the next Revis when he never had to cover the #1's for a full year to me the guys takes to many risks that leds to big plays yes you can get away with that crap over in the AFC west but in the NFC with all the accurate QBs that will make you pay, could hurt you guys.

Ntegrase96
08-28-2012, 04:24 PM
]Well since you want to put rookies into the equation we have hosley how can do everything claiborne does don't count himout plus Michael Coe has surprised me don't be shocked if you see him oh and I also I read a report today that Thomas is going to play this season just not the opener even though he is shooting to play in that game so when everyone is healthy you got Webster, TT2, Prince, Coe, and Hosley paired with one of the top safeties in the league with Kenny Phillips and Rolle yes I think our secondary is better then your's, plus isn't Jenkins hurt too he's not going to be ready for the opener either so what are you talking about?

If you want to bring safeties into it, I'll have to give you the nod. Phillips is pretty good but Rolle is iffy.

Right. Jenkins MAY end up being placed on PUP, but that means he'll miss only 5 games. That's still up in the air. So let's go ahead and strike both TT and Jenkins from the conversation.

If we're talking about the opener, which I apologize I'd lost sight of, then I'd say it's probably a push for both sides considering Jenkins may not play. If he does, edge Dallas.

Eliscruzzz
08-28-2012, 04:28 PM
If you want to bring safeties into it, I'll have to give you the nod. Phillips is pretty good but Rolle is iffy.

Right. Jenkins MAY end up being placed on PUP, but that means he'll miss only 5 games. That's still up in the air. So let's go ahead and strike both TT and Jenkins from the conversation.

If we're talking about the opener, which I apologize I'd lost sight of, then I'd say it's probably a push for both sides considering Jenkins may not play. If he does, edge Dallas. No need to apologize just didn't know what you were getting at if Jenkins does play in the opener then yes you have the edge how can I argue that when two of our starters will be out you just can't do it and the Rolle iffy thing yes when he has to play corner I wet my bed everytime but when he plays his natural safety position he's above average.

Ntegrase96
08-28-2012, 04:30 PM
the other 10 he has done very well, like I said remember he never played with a Brandon Flowers, so................I don't know what to tell you I just think it's funny that Cowboy fans think he's the next Revis when he never had to cover the #1's for a full year to me the guys takes to many risks that leds to big plays yes you can get away with that crap over in the AFC west but in the NFC with all the accurate QBs that will make you pay, could hurt you guys.

I don't think anyone thinks he's the next Revis. Claiborne may be close to a top corner evnetually, but no one is expecting Carr to elevate his game to 'Carr Island'. He IS a borderline top 10 CB. However no one here wants to aknowledge that because Brandon Flowers is so great on the other side despite the fact that there isn't a clear 1 and 2 CB on the Cheifs. Meaning Carr saw plenty of action from top WRs depending on where they lined up.

Takes too many risks? Have you seen Carr play before? He's not asante.

Eliscruzzz
08-28-2012, 04:37 PM
I don't think anyone thinks he's the next Revis. Claiborne may be close to a top corner evnetually, but no one is expecting Carr to elevate his game to 'Carr Island'. He IS a borderline top 10 CB. However no one here wants to aknowledge that because Brandon Flowers is so great on the other side despite the fact that there isn't a clear 1 and 2 CB on the Cheifs. Meaning Carr saw plenty of action from top WRs depending on where they lined up.

Takes too many risks? Have you seen Carr play before? He's not asante. Yes I've seen him play before I used to watch the Cheifs a lot, you just haven't seen the risks cause like I said he either intercepted it or someone else helped out all I'm saying is that when you go against top QBs in the league you won't be able to take those risks. Who really scares you as a receiver that he has covered so far? I can't think of anyone even in the preseason remember too he is learning a whole new system with Ryan, there could be busted plays. I know he's not Asante cause I think Asante is better imo.

Ntegrase96
08-28-2012, 05:03 PM
Yes I've seen him play before I used to watch the Cheifs a lot, you just haven't seen the risks cause like I said he either intercepted it or someone else helped out all I'm saying is that when you go against top QBs in the league you won't be able to take those risks. Who really scares you as a receiver that he has covered so far? I can't think of anyone even in the preseason remember too he is learning a whole new system with Ryan, there could be busted plays. I know he's not Asante cause I think Asante is better imo.

Just from last year, he was good against Calvin and he was good against the GB passing attack-- although they were without Jennings. Still he handled Nelson and Driver pretty well.

And I agree. Even though as a former corner, I can't stand the way Asante plays the position, I have to give him his props. He's better than Carr... or more valuable I should say. ( I really dislike how succeptable he is to screens)

Eliscruzzz
08-28-2012, 06:44 PM
Just from last year, he was good against Calvin and he was good against the GB passing attack-- although they were without Jennings. Still he handled Nelson and Driver pretty well.

And I agree. Even though as a former corner, I can't stand the way Asante plays the position, I have to give him his props. He's better than Carr... or more valuable I should say. ( I really dislike how succeptable he is to screens) Let me just put this out there in no way am I saying Carr sucks cause he doesn't but in no way am I saying he is a number 1 either I want to see how he does in the NFC this year I mean s*** it was a very nice pick up for the Cowboys but that being said I think Claiborne will be your #1 sometime down the road. Carr to me just doesn't seem like a #1 to me if he was on the Giants I think he would be a perfect compliment to Webster so he wouldn't hae the pressure of being a number one, cause most Dallas fans (not saying you cause you seem reasonable) but most will call for his head if he gets burned this year,just remember if that happens he is a perfect #2.

sodbuster
08-28-2012, 06:46 PM
what player is better than the other does not matter
except QB eli scores TD'S romo chokes

Ntegrase96
08-30-2012, 09:46 AM
Jenkins cleared to play; taken off PUP. Could begin practice as early as Saturday.

Ntegrase96
08-30-2012, 09:49 AM
Let me just put this out there in no way am I saying Carr sucks cause he doesn't but in no way am I saying he is a number 1 either I want to see how he does in the NFC this year I mean s*** it was a very nice pick up for the Cowboys but that being said I think Claiborne will be your #1 sometime down the road. Carr to me just doesn't seem like a #1 to me if he was on the Giants I think he would be a perfect compliment to Webster so he wouldn't hae the pressure of being a number one, cause most Dallas fans (not saying you cause you seem reasonable) but most will call for his head if he gets burned this year,just remember if that happens he is a perfect #2.

I understand. I look at it a little differently though. And yes, Claiborne will most likely be our number 1 as early as next year.

ProfessorCrue
09-02-2012, 01:47 AM
the real question is, can the giants keep up with the Cowboys this year.

eLi MusT gO dEEp
09-02-2012, 03:34 PM
This ain't the mid-90s no more, Cowgirl fans.