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View Full Version : For all those super high on David Wilson



appodictic
09-01-2012, 01:46 PM
Do not get me wrong. I think David Wilson is a great runner, who breaks out of many tackles, fast, and can catch the ball. Eventually as Bradshaw ages Wilson will be a candidate to take over first string duties. However the game against the patriots has hopefully shown everyone beyond a shadow of a doubt that the giants running game issues were not an issue of Brandon Jacobs 'tippie toe-ing' or AB's 'bad feet' there were the direct result of an o-line not being able to get it done.

Wilson and the giants FIRST TEAM offence, rushing against the patriots SECOND TEAM defence amassed 13 yards on 8 carries for an average of 1.6 yards per carry. The giants are now scrambling to get any possible o-line players off waivers. We have picked up two of them already.

The giants have made a good call to get a good pass catching running back. Because the o-line will have their work cut out for them in running situations this season. Hopefully we can get one of more players off waivers that have something to offer.

NYG4lifeNYK
09-01-2012, 01:48 PM
Been saying it for YEARS.... Jacobs was very underappreciated one of my favorite Giants.


Jacobs was a BEAST.... had we had ANY semblence of an O-Line he would of never got lost his starting job to Bradshaw

Great post app (beer mug!) ...sigh lol

giantsfan420
09-01-2012, 01:49 PM
the pass game looked bad as well. but that could be bc of the OL I guess.

Im not worried about the NE game. 4th preseason game, didnt even feel like it was more than a practice.

The entire offense looked excellent against a very good Chicago defense. Also maybe Nicks returning kinda messed up the timing. Really not sweating it tho, Wilson and Bradshaw create their own running lanes. Remember, they put up those numbers for like the 10 min they played.
we'll see how it looks when they're playing 60

dave56dj
09-01-2012, 01:51 PM
Yep our o line stuggled last year to open up holes and it looked rough in preseason too - I loved the big boy jacobs - set a tone - but note that wilson may be able to do things physically that not many other backs in the league can - and he will have too cause there wont be many holes to run through. Jacobs strength was running like a freight train - but you have to open a lane to get the train in motion. Wilson needs less and will get less. Once we put together a better o line the kid is gonna be unreal and his pass catching should be a factor this year.

GMan-67
09-01-2012, 01:53 PM
so you are saying you'd prefer Jacobs to Wilson ?? ... i admire your loyalty, but im more grateful that you are not the GM

NYG4lifeNYK
09-01-2012, 02:00 PM
so you are saying you'd prefer Jacobs to Wilson ?? ... i admire your loyalty, but im more grateful that you are not the GM

Don't think anyone here even echoed that sentiment...

FUUFNF
09-01-2012, 02:08 PM
Jacobs is a big guy who was suprisingly easy to tackle for a guy his size. Sure he'd truck a guy every now and then, but that was probably just 1 out of 20 carries. I think the issue with Jacobs was that he is tall and his balance isn't all that great, so when anyone got down in his legs, he'd get all off balance and go down with fairly little contact. Wilson has a low center of gravity, so he can better bounce off of tacklers and stay upright.

Ballllinnnnnnn
09-01-2012, 02:11 PM
Do not get me wrong. I think David Wilson is a great runner, who breaks out of many tackles, fast, and can catch the ball. Eventually as Bradshaw ages Wilson will be a candidate to take over first string duties. However the game against the patriots has hopefully shown everyone beyond a shadow of a doubt that the giants running game issues were not an issue of Brandon Jacobs 'tippie toe-ing' or AB's 'bad feet' there were the direct result of an o-line not being able to get it done.Wilson and the giants FIRST TEAM offence, rushing against the patriots SECOND TEAM defence amassed 13 yards on 8 carries for an average of 1.6 yards per carry. The giants are now scrambling to get any possible o-line players off waivers. We have picked up two of them already.The giants have made a good call to get a good pass catching running back. Because the o-line will have their work cut out for them in running situations this season. Hopefully we can get one of more players off waivers that have something to offer.Your talking about the 4th preseason game..... The most meaningless one.

appodictic
09-01-2012, 02:16 PM
Your talking about the 4th preseason game..... The most meaningless one. It is not meaningless if your first team gets handled by some ones second team, and that team just happens to be the team you beat in the superbowl. Maybe TC brought in a vanilla playbook as not to show the patriots anything, but the fact that we just picked up two o-line after the game 4 performance and cut petros after his poor performance suggests the game had a lot of meaning to those watching.

EJ Blue
09-01-2012, 02:20 PM
It is obvious that the o-line sucks. But since Derrick Ward left, Jacobs was the tip toe bandit regardless of how the o-line performed, with some bursts of energy here and there to make everyone have hope for him. The o-line wasn't always bad, and he didn't always have bad games. However, I will not change my opinion of him in hindsight, he was inconsistent, tried to be an elusive back too often, and outright frustrated me based on how unproductive he was at times then always had an excuse for it. The bad o-line doesn't completely justify his low production.

appodictic
09-01-2012, 02:27 PM
It is obvious that the o-line sucks. But since Derrick Ward left, Jacobs was the tip toe bandit regardless of how the o-line performed, with some bursts of energy here and there to make everyone have hope for him. The o-line wasn't always bad, and he didn't always have bad games. However, I will not change my opinion of him in hindsight, he was inconsistent, tried to be an elusive back too often, and outright frustrated me based on how unproductive he was at times then always had an excuse for it. The bad o-line doesn't completely justify his low production.

Fair enough, I was not advocating we should have Jacobs back in any way. I think it is pretty easy to unfairly criticize him. Only bad running backs run straight ahead with their pads down 100% of the time. Once he was not a starter he was in a weird place where if he tried to bounce a run outside people would get on his case too fast. I think this caused him to lose his identity and it effected his play. Mind you, Jacobs rushed for 100+ yards against the falcons in the play offs. Even though by nature Jacobs was a bruiser he did run with a lot of finesse at times. You SHOULD try to make people miss as a running back, just because he is big doesnt mean he should be in bulldozer mode all the time.

JSpin
09-01-2012, 02:31 PM
Do not get me wrong. I think David Wilson is a great runner, who breaks out of many tackles, fast, and can catch the ball. Eventually as Bradshaw ages Wilson will be a candidate to take over first string duties. However the game against the patriots has hopefully shown everyone beyond a shadow of a doubt that the giants running game issues were not an issue of Brandon Jacobs 'tippie toe-ing' or AB's 'bad feet' there were the direct result of an o-line not being able to get it done.

Wilson and the giants FIRST TEAM offence, rushing against the patriots SECOND TEAM defence amassed 13 yards on 8 carries for an average of 1.6 yards per carry. The giants are now scrambling to get any possible o-line players off waivers. We have picked up two of them already.

The giants have made a good call to get a good pass catching running back. Because the o-line will have their work cut out for them in running situations this season. Hopefully we can get one of more players off waivers that have something to offer.

Look at the only preseason game that actually mattered (the bears game) David Wilson DOMINATED. When Hakeem gets back and our passing machine is running at full steam, Wilson is going to shred defenses.

FUUFNF
09-01-2012, 02:33 PM
Jacobs wasn't a "move the pile" kind of guy. When he would occasionally run someone over, it was always on the edges, and usually the victim was a DB giving up at least 100 pounds. I don't recall too many instances of Jacobs meeting a LB in the hole and winning.

giantsfan420
09-01-2012, 02:35 PM
Jacobs is a big guy who was suprisingly easy to tackle for a guy his size. Sure he'd truck a guy every now and then, but that was probably just 1 out of 20 carries. I think the issue with Jacobs was that he is tall and his balance isn't all that great, so when anyone got down in his legs, he'd get all off balance and go down with fairly little contact. Wilson has a low center of gravity, so he can better bounce off of tacklers and stay upright.

it really is amazing with wilson. like he can talk a hit to the legs or midsection and have it knock him a few yards off his original path all the while staying upright and compact in mid stride. he is gonna be a special special back. JR imo hit the jackpot 3x this last draft, maybe more with the later round picks

Moke
09-01-2012, 02:37 PM
it really is amazing with wilson. like he can talk a hit to the legs or midsection and have it knock him a few yards off his original path all the while staying upright and compact in mid stride. he is gonna be a special special back. JR imo hit the jackpot 3x this last draft, maybe more with the later round picks


I love how he can take those hits and go down, but I have no idea about this kind of stuff - should we be worried of his future in terms of injury or taking too many hits?

giantsfan420
09-01-2012, 02:40 PM
i dont think so really. its like a freakish thing. he braces for the hit, and i guess bc of his speed and build, he creates enough momentum where he impacts the other guy as much as he is impacted. its like a mid air collision, only Wilson keeps his balance and compact but upright posture, ready to take off again. he looks like he has mastered it almost, he has this unique running style that reminds me a lot of gayle sayers (i believe he was a track star too). Wilson is a sprinter as well as a rb...

CowboysSuck
09-01-2012, 02:50 PM
Heres to hoping the Bears preseason game translates to the regular season...

rainierjef
09-01-2012, 02:52 PM
your beating a dead horse on this one, i've been saying this since 09

Eliscruzzz
09-01-2012, 03:00 PM
I still think Wilson is the perfect back for this system I think JR knew we would have a bad o-line (which to me hasn't been horrible) and that he needed to draft a back that could make something outta nothing. Wilson is going to be a beast watch, in the passing game he is a huge upgrade from Jacobs, he also can run with power he has shown that I think he'll be better then Jacob on short yardage simply cause he is short compact and strong as hell and when he gets to the edge watch out. I think they saw enough from Wilson in the preseason and didn't want to risk injury. He adds a new dynamic to this offense which we haven't had in a while.

M00KIE
09-01-2012, 03:43 PM
Do not get me wrong. I think David Wilson is a great runner, who breaks out of many tackles, fast, and can catch the ball. Eventually as Bradshaw ages Wilson will be a candidate to take over first string duties. However the game against the patriots has hopefully shown everyone beyond a shadow of a doubt that the giants running game issues were not an issue of Brandon Jacobs 'tippie toe-ing' or AB's 'bad feet' there were the direct result of an o-line not being able to get it done.

Wilson and the giants FIRST TEAM offence, rushing against the patriots SECOND TEAM defence amassed 13 yards on 8 carries for an average of 1.6 yards per carry. The giants are now scrambling to get any possible o-line players off waivers. We have picked up two of them already.

The giants have made a good call to get a good pass catching running back. Because the o-line will have their work cut out for them in running situations this season. Hopefully we can get one of more players off waivers that have something to offer.

While I agree that it falls on the O line, that doesn't excuse a 275lb running back from not attempting to just plow through. I loved BJ and I'm grateful for his time here but he wasn't doing what he was built to do.

cva14
09-01-2012, 03:53 PM
Wilson is exciting and will do very well although I worry about his longevity--kind of like a Westbrook, quick, fast, shifty, excellent receiver and undersized. But I think our O-line problems with regard to the run began in 2008. In 2008 and 2009 our finesse line was good at pass blocking but they were smallish and in 08, 09, and 10 they simply were worn down by the last four games of the season and our running game went to hell. Last year we ran well just enough to have a reasonable mixture. I think there is still time for this year's line to really gel, but if so it will remain a finesse type line and I don't think it can really move a big, determined defense back off the ball..

gmen0820
09-01-2012, 04:03 PM
Where was this post against the Bears? Here's the thing, Wilson has the most raw talent at the RB position than anyone else on the roster. You really think that Bradshaw's feet weren't an issue last year? Do you really think that Jacobs tip toeing wasn't a problem last year?

Oh, and with regards to Jacobs tip toeing, it's not the fact that he did it which is the problem, it's the fact that he has an inability to stop and start his feet with effectiveness. Wilson has that ability to be effective, so he needs much less to happen for him to perform a positive run. I don't understand why people want to interconnect everything with such utter inconsistency. The chances of a play being perfectly executed is so low, that's why we rank players. You know, there are good RBs in this league, and there are bad RBs in this league, I know that is a terribly tough concept to grasp.

Diamondring
09-01-2012, 04:09 PM
No back can take a lot of hits and or give them and last for a long time. When backs run defenders are taken away so that the back does not take on too many defenders and defenders who are able to stop the run. The play also take away defenders so that there are not that many coming after the runner. There will be times when the back can't run fast through the hole. People around here talk about BJ was the tiptoe banded and I have seen one person said he did that a lot. BJ only tiptoe when there was no hole.

He had to change his style if he wants to last long. Hits do take a toll on every player. When Emmit Smith was running, he didn't take a lot of hits so he was able to last for a long time. When Bary was playing, he took less hits. Even when Barry ran, defenders were taken away. Most backs aren't going to beat two defenders or more and some defenders know how to tackle a lot of backs. Competitions varies in the NFL. BJ was always a good runner and was smart to. He learned how to run differently wich backs need to do when they get older. BJ still has it if he can stay healthy.

gmen0820
09-01-2012, 04:11 PM
When backs run, defenders are taken away so that the back does not take on too many defenders and defenders who are able to stop the run.Really? How can that be?

Tmurda1984
09-01-2012, 05:00 PM
You can't blame the line when your 270 lb running back is dancing in the backfield as if he was Darren Sproles. Jacobs been struggling for several years now, and the offensive line wasnt that bad 2 years ago. Snee and Mckenzie were some of the best players at their position. Jacobs wanted to prove to everyone that he could be a workhorse type running back when Ward left, and tried to take less contact to avoid injury and wasnt nearly as effective. Jacobs is only halfway decent when you give him a good complimentary back and an incredible offensive line like we had in 07 and 08. Jacobs doesnt have get vision to find holes either.

giantsfan420
09-01-2012, 05:03 PM
Really? How can that be?
lol........

JesseJames
09-01-2012, 05:14 PM
I'm going to root like hell this season just like always do but I must admit that I have a really bad feeling about this O line and I find it hard to believe that Reese didn't address this need early in the last draft, at least early enough to get a decent player. I'm still holding out hope that we make a deal for a starter at either Tackle or Guard....

Diamondring
09-01-2012, 05:24 PM
You can't blame the line when your 270 lb running back is dancing in the backfield as if he was Darren Sproles. Jacobs been struggling for several years now, and the offensive line wasnt that bad 2 years ago. Snee and Mckenzie were some of the best players at their position. Jacobs wanted to prove to everyone that he could be a workhorse type running back when Ward left, and tried to take less contact to avoid injury and wasnt nearly as effective. Jacobs is only halfway decent when you give him a good complimentary back and an incredible offensive line like we had in 07 and 08. Jacobs doesnt have get vision to find holes either.BJ hasn't been struggling for many years. Look at his average per run and how he ran with the 49ers. I think he should have went to the Vikings or another team like the Ravens.

born blue
09-01-2012, 05:34 PM
The giants are now scrambling to get any possible o-line players off waivers. We have picked up two of them already.

Two? DJ Jones and...

Jiffy Jeff
09-01-2012, 05:37 PM
I'm just super high on reefer........David Wilson is OK, though.

RagTime Blue
09-01-2012, 05:41 PM
This guy Wilson has a running style that I haven't seen on the Giants ever. That Olympic sprinter, Bolt, revolutionized the way sprinters run. . .I mean turned it on its ear. I'm not surprised to hear Wilson was a sprinter, since he epitomizes the Bolt method of running (high knees, on toes, never flatfooted, leaning forward almost to fall, constantly pumping knees).

Couple that with the fact that Wilson has amazing vision and he never seems to me to really take a big thump. The one negative is that this method of running was designed for sprinters, and takes a lot of energy. He may get tired faster than one would expect at the NFL level.

We'll see. I can't wait to see him play!!

Diamondring
09-01-2012, 06:08 PM
I think that BJ has a 4.5 yards per carry average with the Giants. Not bad for a tiptoe runner.