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Eliscruzzz
09-01-2012, 05:24 PM
20.AHMAD BRADSHAW
19.EVAN MATHIS
18.OSI UMENYIORA
17.DESEAN JACKSON
16.DEZ BRYANT
15.JASON WITTEN
14.BRIAN ORAKPO
13.TRYON SMITH
12.MICHAEL VICK
11.LONDON FLETCHER
10.VICTOR CRUZ
9.JASON BABIN
8.JUSTIN TUCK
7.TONY ROMO
6.HAKEEM NICKS
5.JPP
4.TRENT COLE
3. LASHAUNA MCCOY I agree for the most part but Trent Cole ahead of JPP? I think the last 3 are 2. Ware 1. Eli, a lot of Dallas fans are saying Ware should be ahead of Eli but last I remember Eli has two SBs.

NYG4lifeNYK
09-01-2012, 05:26 PM
Babin over Osi LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


Vick over Witten LOOOOOOOOOOOL


What an awful ranking......

juice33s
09-01-2012, 05:29 PM
Babin over Osi LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


Vick over Witten LOOOOOOOOOOOL


What an awful ranking......
Cole over JPP is the lists biggest mistake....Besides this guy I don't think there's another person in the world who would take cole over JPP

Eliscruzzz
09-01-2012, 05:30 PM
Babin over Osi LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


Vick over Witten LOOOOOOOOOOOL


What an awful ranking...... Well you know how they are My only guess as to Vick being ahead of Witten is that he plays the quarterback position and Babin really wasn't that bad especially last year if Osi played a full season he would be ahead of him Osi also doesn't start.

Ntegrase96
09-01-2012, 05:37 PM
20.AHMAD BRADSHAW
19.EVAN MATHIS
18.OSI UMENYIORA
17.DESEAN JACKSON
16.DEZ BRYANT
15.JASON WITTEN
14.BRIAN ORAKPO
13.TRYON SMITH
12.MICHAEL VICK
11.LONDON FLETCHER
10.VICTOR CRUZ
9.JASON BABIN
8.JUSTIN TUCK
7.TONY ROMO
6.HAKEEM NICKS
5.JPP
4.TRENT COLE
I agree for the most part but Trent Cole ahead of JPP? I think the last 3 are 3. Mccoy 2. Ware 1. Eli, a lot of Dallas fans are saying Ware should be ahead of Eli but last I remember Eli has two SBs.

I could see number 1 going either way (Ware or Eli).

Defensive players aren't going to be judged on their teams' success like a QB is.

Therefore I can see Eli being placed above Ware just because of the importance of a QB vs an weak side OLB.

But if we're talking about in terms of talent? I think it's Ware. Number 94 is easily the best in the league at his position (maybe the best defensive player, period-- close between he and Revis if you ask me) while Eli is still behind the likes of Brady, Rodgers, Brees in public perception.

Basically Ware is a better OLB than Eli is a QB, but QB is the more important position.

Rod-Diggity
09-01-2012, 05:40 PM
Cole over JPP is the lists biggest mistake....Besides this guy I don't think there's another person in the world who would take cole over JPP

not that i'm a espn fan, but if you read the explanation and reasoning behind that ranking it makes since, besides JPP came out of nowhere with 16.5 sacks last yr in his second yr i might add. We all know JPP is an athletic beast but lets see a lil bit more longevity and consistency. Now lets see what JPP does after everyone has a season full of tape on him. Believe you me i love me some JPP, but you can't crown a guy off of one season now can we?

Eliscruzzz
09-01-2012, 05:44 PM
I could see number 1 going either way (Ware or Eli).

Defensive players aren't going to be judged on their teams' success like a QB is.

Therefore I can see Eli being placed above Ware just because of the importance of a QB vs an weak side OLB.

But if we're talking about in terms of talent? I think it's Ware. Number 94 is easily the best in the league at his position (maybe the best defensive player, period-- close between he and Revis if you ask me) while Eli is still behind the likes of Brady, Rodgers, Brees in public perception.

Basically Ware is a better OLB than Eli is a QB, but QB is the more important position. Well you can't really blame Eli in that regard as to being the best at his position I mean his team won the SB last year sure he didn't put up stats inthe likes of brees and company but they also have redzone threats Eli hasn't had that since Plax so In my eyes Eli is better then Ware I don't even think Ware is better then Jpp but no way do you put Ware ahead of Eli when Eli has a bigger impact on the game more then Ware doeswhy do you think Romo is 7th cause when the game is on the line he screws it up at least 2 times a season

Eliscruzzz
09-01-2012, 05:49 PM
not that i'm a espn fan, but if you read the explanation and reasoning behind that ranking it makes since, besides JPP came out of nowhere with 16.5 sacks last yr in his second yr i might add. We all know JPP is an athletic beast but lets see a lil bit more longevity and consistency. Now lets see what JPP does after everyone has a season full of tape on him. Believe you me i love me some JPP, but you can't crown a guy off of one season now can we? I think you can when he single handily won a game for us last year I don't think you say that Cole has ever done that.

Ntegrase96
09-01-2012, 05:52 PM
Well you can't really blame Eli in that regard as to being the best at his position I mean his team won the SB last year sure he didn't put up stats inthe likes of brees and company but they also have redzone threats Eli hasn't had that since Plax so In my eyes Eli is better then Ware I don't even think Ware is better then Jpp BUT NO WAY DO YOU PUT wARE AHEAD OF eLI WHEN eLI HAS A BIGGER IMPACT ON THE GAME THEN wARE DOES WHY DO YOU THINK rOMO IS 7TH cause when the game is on theline he screws it up at least 2 times a season

I'm not blaming Eli for anything. He's a damn good QB. I just don't think he's as good as some of the other guys in the league. And most people around here didn't either this time last year when he made the statement "I think I'm elite" (or whatever it was). However, one season, no matter how outstanding, doesn't change a QBs standing, nor does it excuse years of mediocrity.

Overall we're in agreement that Eli has a bigger impact on the game than Ware does, but that doesn't necessarily make him better. It just comes with the position. Mark Sanchez has a bigger impact on any given game than Ware does as well.

It's just how you (or in this case, ESPN) defines 'Top Player'

Ntegrase96
09-01-2012, 05:52 PM
I think you can when he single handily won a game for us last year I don't think you say that Cole has ever done that.

Have you watched all the games Cole has played?

dave56dj
09-01-2012, 05:55 PM
To speak on behalf of JPP.

1) a first rounder doesnt comes out of nowhere.
2) The guy had 16.5 sacks - a total that neither osi nor tuck nor cole has even whiffed - closes i think is about 12.5
3) 86 TACKLES - HELLOO 86 tackles - this is a number that not only cole tuck or osi hasnt come close to (high is 59) the HOF Michael Strahan never even came close too - he had 60+. 86 tackles - remarkable for an end.
4) The guy had one of the biggest block FG's in giants histroy - without it they dont get to the playoffs and no ring.
5) Remember osi missed a good portion of the year and tuck was not himself due to injuries - JPP saw doubles for at least half the season - it almost never mattered - the kid will be the best end in the league for years to come barring injury. THIS ISNT HYPE - the stats dont lie.

Eliscruzzz
09-01-2012, 05:57 PM
I'm not blaming Eli for anything. He's a damn good QB. I just don't think he's as good as some of the other guys in the league. And most people around here didn't either this time last year when he made the statement "I think I'm elite" (or whatever it was). However, one season, no matter how outstanding, doesn't change a QBs standing, nor does it excuse years of mediocrity.

Overall we're in agreement that Eli has a bigger impact on the game than Ware does, but that doesn't necessarily make him better. It just comes with the position. Mark Sanchez has a bigger impact on any given game than Ware does as well.

It's just how you (or in this case, ESPN) defines 'Top Player' See this is what erks me no your fault but Rogers is put on this pedestal cause he had one outstanding season when you gotta to take everything into account like the Giants run the ball more then the Packers do at the goal line and do you think Eli has a legit redzone threat? Plus most of the top QB play in a dink and dunk offense while the Giants are a run first play action pass down the field team I could go on and on.

Eliscruzzz
09-01-2012, 05:59 PM
Have you watched all the games Cole has played? Yes I have and you probably talking about sacks which JPP does too but I mean JPP single handily won a game by blocking a FG against your team did you watch that? Has Cole every did that?

Eliscruzzz
09-01-2012, 06:01 PM
To speak on behalf of JPP.

1) a first rounder doesnt comes out of nowhere.
2) The guy had 16.5 sacks - a total that neither osi nor tuck nor cole has even whiffed - closes i think is about 12.5
3) 86 TACKLES - HELLOO 86 tackles - this is a number that not only cole tuck or osi hasnt come close to (high is 59) the HOF Michael Strahan never even came close too - he had 60+. 86 tackles - remarkable for an end.
4) The guy had one of the biggest block FG's in giants histroy - without it they dont get to the playoffs and no ring.
5) Remember osi missed a good portion of the year and tuck was not himself due to injuries - JPP saw doubles for at least half the season - it almost never mattered - the kid will be the best end in the league for years to come barring injury. THIS ISNT HYPE - the stats dont lie. This is what I'm saying 86 tackles by a DE is insane when I get done watching Giants games I'm like Damn JPP is a beast can't say the same for Cole.

GIANTSACK
09-01-2012, 06:02 PM
20.AHMAD BRADSHAW
19.EVAN MATHIS
18.OSI UMENYIORA
17.DESEAN JACKSON
16.DEZ BRYANT
15.JASON WITTEN
14.BRIAN ORAKPO
13.TRYON SMITH
12.MICHAEL VICK
11.LONDON FLETCHER
10.VICTOR CRUZ
9.JASON BABIN
8.JUSTIN TUCK
7.TONY ROMO
6.HAKEEM NICKS
5.JPP
4.TRENT COLE
I agree for the most part but Trent Cole ahead of JPP? I think the last 3 are 3. Mccoy 2. Ware 1. Eli, a lot of Dallas fans are saying Ware should be ahead of Eli but last I remember Eli has two SBs.





DAMN what about ROMO over TUCK..

dave56dj
09-01-2012, 06:03 PM
Cole is an animal too -= and he does not shirk his responsiblity as a run stuffer - but JPP often looks like a man playing with boys - he is on another level - Cole is great - JPP last year was unblockable.

Love eli - great QB - he is not aaron rodgers, but I am fine with that.

Eliscruzzz
09-01-2012, 06:07 PM
Cole is an animal too -= and he does not shirk his responsiblity as a run stuffer - but JPP often looks like a man playing with boys - he is on another level - Cole is great - JPP last year was unblockable.

Love eli - great QB - he is not aaron rodgers, but I am fine with that. That's my point he doesn't have to be Rodgers to bethe best player in the NFC EAST which Rodger, Brees, and Brady don't even play in.

giantsfan420
09-01-2012, 06:11 PM
See this is what erks me no your fault but Rogers is put on this pedestal cause he had one outstanding season when you gotta to take everything into account like the Giants run the ball more then the Packers do at the goal line and do you think Eli has a legit redzone threat? Plus most of the top QB play in a dink and dunk offense while the Giants are a run first play action pass down the field team I could go on and on.

i love how he said elis years of medeocrity. we're 5/6 vs dallas, and kitna was the qb for their 1 win. so for years, eli at mediocre is good enough to beat dallas.

but in all seriousness, people just look at eli's qb rating and base his year off it. while its true eli does have his share of stinkers, he consistently puts up 4k, 30 tds, 60% completion or higher...

and further, ppl dont take into account how aggressive we are on offense. we attempt the most passes of 20 yds or more, and complete the most of them. so when u compare elis numbers to the other elite qbs, u have to keep in mind eli is acheiving his stats on more difficult passes which I think makes elis stats even more impressive. 1 of 5 players all time 7 straight seasons of 3000 and 20 tds or more. last 4 seasons he's done it over 4000yds...guys a rock, consistent, and i believe he will be league mvp this season

Ntegrase96
09-01-2012, 06:13 PM
See this is what erks me no your fault but Rogers is put on this pedestal cause he had one outstanding season when you gotta to take everything into account like the Giants run the ball more then the Packers do at the goal line and do you think Eli has a legit redzone threat? Plus most of the top QB play in a dink and dunk offense while the Giants are a run first play action pass down the field team I could go on and on.

I understand. It probably wouldn't shock you if I told you that Rodgers is less clutch than Romo late in games. Still, Rodgers exploded on to the scene. I'm not sure if it was his first game experience but he played very well in 2007 against us when Favre was knocked out of the game. It's probably why he's considered great. He's never really struggled-- always been good to great.

Also, while Eli is pretty good he still has some ugly numbers. Eli does a lot of things well that are conducive to helping HIS team win, but he also does things that make you scratch your head.

jaygoon
09-01-2012, 06:19 PM
ware is #1. superbowls wont matter, its individuals here, not the team.

ware is the best defender in the NFL. possibly the best player in the NFL. I hate to give a Cowboy player any props, but his are well deserved.

Eliscruzzz
09-01-2012, 06:20 PM
i love how he said elis years of medeocrity. we're 5/6 vs dallas, and kitna was the qb for their 1 win. so for years, eli at mediocre is good enough to beat dallas.

but in all seriousness, people just look at eli's qb rating and base his year off it. while its true eli does have his share of stinkers, he consistently puts up 4k, 30 tds, 60% completion or higher...

and further, ppl dont take into account how aggressive we are on offense. we attempt the most passes of 20 yds or more, and complete the most of them. so when u compare elis numbers to the other elite qbs, u have to keep in mind eli is acheiving his stats on more difficult passes which I think makes elis stats even more impressive. 1 of 5 players all time 7 straight seasons of 3000 and 20 tds or more. last 4 seasons he's done it over 4000yds...guys a rock, consistent, and i believe he will be league mvp this season I couldn't have said it better I mean the level of disrespect this man gets when you take into account that he has beaten all of those QBs to our offense is very aggressive and it doesn't do justice for Eli cause he doesn't throw a 2yd screen pass or a 5 yard hitch route. I just think it's absurd that you put a OLB ahead of a two time SB winner more then Rodgers or Brees. It's like he saying the SB don't count lol. Also Eli's medicore play to me is pretty damn good considering all thinks taken into account.

Eliscruzzz
09-01-2012, 06:27 PM
I understand. It probably wouldn't shock you if I told you that Rodgers is less clutch than Romo late in games. Still, Rodgers exploded on to the scene. I'm not sure if it was his first game experience but he played very well in 2007 against us when Favre was knocked out of the game. It's probably why he's considered great. He's never really struggled-- always been good to great.

Also, while Eli is pretty good he still has some ugly numbers. Eli does a lot of things well that are conducive to helping HIS team win, but he also does things that make you scratch your head.have you ever looked at Brees stats he threw for 20 ints twice he put up ugly numbers too if it was all about stats then why isn't Romo ahead of Eli? Your premiss about Eli is way off as I expect it to be cause you are a Cowboy fan and consider the fact that he has beat your team 6-8 times and one ofthe times Romo didn't even play I get it. JK

Eliscruzzz
09-01-2012, 06:29 PM
ware is #1. superbowls wont matter, its individuals here, not the team.

ware is the best defender in the NFL. possibly the best player in the NFL. I hate to give a Cowboy player any props, but his are well deserved. SB don't matter? wtf are you talking about? when you talking best player yes they do when that player was the only reason why we were in games last year during the regular season. SMH........

Marvelousmik
09-01-2012, 06:52 PM
i love how he said elis years of medeocrity. we're 5/6 vs dallas, and kitna was the qb for their 1 win. so for years, eli at mediocre is good enough to beat dallas.

but in all seriousness, people just look at eli's qb rating and base his year off it. while its true eli does have his share of stinkers, he consistently puts up 4k, 30 tds, 60% completion or higher...

and further, ppl dont take into account how aggressive we are on offense. we attempt the most passes of 20 yds or more, and complete the most of them. so when u compare elis numbers to the other elite qbs, u have to keep in mind eli is acheiving his stats on more difficult passes which I think makes elis stats even more impressive. 1 of 5 players all time 7 straight seasons of 3000 and 20 tds or more. last 4 seasons he's done it over 4000yds...guys a rock, consistent, and i believe he will be league mvp this season

I believe rodgers is the best QB in the league. He can beat you with his legs, arm, and is very accurate. He also plays for one of the worst pass blocking offensive lines in the NFL

Marvelousmik
09-01-2012, 06:56 PM
I could see number 1 going either way (Ware or Eli).

Defensive players aren't going to be judged on their teams' success like a QB is.

Therefore I can see Eli being placed above Ware just because of the importance of a QB vs an weak side OLB.

But if we're talking about in terms of talent? I think it's Ware. Number 94 is easily the best in the league at his position (maybe the best defensive player, period-- close between he and Revis if you ask me) while Eli is still behind the likes of Brady, Rodgers, Brees in public perception.

Basically Ware is a better OLB than Eli is a QB, but QB is the more important position.

I wish you were a giants fan. I love your honesty and neutral approach to every argument even though it doesnt seem that way this time around. However i agree 100%. I dont think i ever disagreed with something you said yet.

penguinfarmer
09-01-2012, 07:13 PM
p.s. Graziano is a Giants fan

Eliscruzzz
09-01-2012, 07:16 PM
p.s. Graziano is a Giants fan so what lol

Eliscruzzz
09-01-2012, 07:18 PM
I wish you were a giants fan. I love your honesty and neutral approach to every argument even though it doesnt seem that way this time around. However i agree 100%. I dont think i ever disagreed with something you said yet. If you had the #1 pick in the draft you would take Ware over Eli????

Drez
09-01-2012, 07:20 PM
do you think Eli has a legit redzone threat?

Nicks is a legit redzone threat. Cruz is definitely a threat.

Marvelousmik
09-01-2012, 07:33 PM
If you had the #1 pick in the draft you would take Ware over Eli????

No, because a QB is much more important than a Pass rusher.

juice33s
09-01-2012, 08:13 PM
To speak on behalf of JPP.

1) a first rounder doesnt comes out of nowhere.
2) The guy had 16.5 sacks - a total that neither osi nor tuck nor cole has even whiffed - closes i think is about 12.5
3) 86 TACKLES - HELLOO 86 tackles - this is a number that not only cole tuck or osi hasnt come close to (high is 59) the HOF Michael Strahan never even came close too - he had 60+. 86 tackles - remarkable for an end.
4) The guy had one of the biggest block FG's in giants histroy - without it they dont get to the playoffs and no ring.
5) Remember osi missed a good portion of the year and tuck was not himself due to injuries - JPP saw doubles for at least half the season - it almost never mattered - the kid will be the best end in the league for years to come barring injury. THIS ISNT HYPE - the stats dont lie.
Let me also add that according to PFF, JPP had 10 batted passes last season which was more then the entire Eagles Dline combined (The next closest DE in the NFL had 5)

DemandedAce
09-01-2012, 08:13 PM
p.s. Graziano is a Giants fan

No... No he isn't, not at all. He spends most of his time hating on the Giants if you read that thread consistently. He's more Eagles' fan than anything else

DemandedAce
09-01-2012, 08:14 PM
Am I the ONLY PERSON IN THE WORLD that thinks Ware is overrated and put on a God-Mode pedestal that he doesn't completely deserve? He's good, but best player in the NFL? C'mon now, be serious.

Giantz4Life
09-01-2012, 08:29 PM
Am I the ONLY PERSON IN THE WORLD that thinks Ware is overrated and put on a God-Mode pedestal that he doesn't completely deserve? He's good, but best player in the NFL? C'mon now, be serious.

You could make a strong argument that he is the best defensive player in the NFL in my opinion. He is undoubtedly the best at his position and has been for years. I do not think he is overrated, because I do think he is THAT good.

CowboysSuck
09-01-2012, 08:29 PM
DeMarcus Ware is absolutely NOT the best player in the league LOL. Whata joke. Im not sure if he even makes the top 10. seriously people, this is a league with names like Peyton Manning, Adrian Peterson, Darell Revis etc. Ware is not close to the best by any stretch.

CowboysSuck
09-01-2012, 08:30 PM
Am I the ONLY PERSON IN THE WORLD that thinks Ware is overrated and put on a God-Mode pedestal that he doesn't completely deserve? He's good, but best player in the NFL? C'mon now, be serious.

No you aren't, believe me.

FIFTY6G-MAN
09-01-2012, 08:35 PM
I could see number 1 going either way (Ware or Eli).

Defensive players aren't going to be judged on their teams' success like a QB is.

Therefore I can see Eli being placed above Ware just because of the importance of a QB vs an weak side OLB.

But if we're talking about in terms of talent? I think it's Ware. Number 94 is easily the best in the league at his position (maybe the best defensive player, period-- close between he and Revis if you ask me) while Eli is still behind the likes of Brady, Rodgers, Brees in public perception.

Basically Ware is a better OLB than Eli is a QB, but QB is the more important position.Until Ware earns MVP for the season(Like L.T.) then he shouldnt even be considered for number 1

jaygoon
09-01-2012, 09:03 PM
SB don't matter? wtf are you talking about? when you talking best player yes they do when that player was the only reason why we were in games last year during the regular season. SMH........

So DJ Ware, a 2x super bowl champion, is a better player than Demarcus Ware because hes won a few superbowl? Nice logic there bud.

This is a individual list. Demarcus Ware is the best player in the NFL. Elis superbowls were team efforts. Stats will show that Eli isnt exactly putting up huge numbers (minus his yardage total this year). Ware has consistently put up huge numbers on a mediocre defense. As an individual, Ware trumps Eli.

If you honestly think that Eli is the only reason the Giants have won 2 superbowls with him as QB, than you sir, I cant argue with.

Drez
09-01-2012, 09:28 PM
No... No he isn't, not at all. He spends most of his time hating on the Giants if you read that thread consistently. He's more Eagles' fan than anything else
He's not a fan of any NFL team. He's equally as critical of every team in the East.

FFS, people, perspective.

JPP
09-01-2012, 09:57 PM
Nicks is a legit redzone threat. Cruz is definitely a threat.

I definitely think Nicks is a red zone threat with the way he uses his body.

But I think with all this Ware vs Eli debate, which really how do you go wrong, people are overlooking the fact that means McCoy made the top 3. I think McCoy is a hug benefactor of Vick and his ability to run, he does have talent but top 3 I don't think so.

DemandedAce
09-01-2012, 10:17 PM
I definitely think Nicks is a red zone threat with the way he uses his body.

But I think with all this Ware vs Eli debate, which really how do you go wrong, people are overlooking the fact that means McCoy made the top 3. I think McCoy is a hug benefactor of Vick and his ability to run, he does have talent but top 3 I don't think so.

McCoy is dangerous every time he touches the ball he's a special talent and one of the top backs in the NFL

Marvelousmik
09-01-2012, 10:32 PM
DeMarcus Ware is absolutely NOT the best player in the league LOL. Whata joke. Im not sure if he even makes the top 10. seriously people, this is a league with names like Peyton Manning, Adrian Peterson, Darell Revis etc. Ware is not close to the best by any stretch.

In the last 5 seasons ware has had 70 sacks.

he had 19.5 sacks last season. (I figured you didn't know any of this judging by what you just said.)

No one has had more sacks than him over the last 7 years.

But if you still think he's not a top 10 player, who are your top 10 players?

BeatYale
09-01-2012, 10:44 PM
Cole over JPP is the lists biggest mistake....Besides this guy I don't think there's another person in the world who would take cole over JPP

What about Cole's mom?

penguinfarmer
09-01-2012, 10:46 PM
No... No he isn't, not at all. He spends most of his time hating on the Giants if you read that thread consistently. He's more Eagles' fan than anything else

Like guys on here don't go all emo on their own team. A picture was posted of him and his family in Giants gear. He's a Giants fan.

Drez
09-01-2012, 11:03 PM
I definitely think Nicks is a red zone threat with the way he uses his body.

But I think with all this Ware vs Eli debate, which really how do you go wrong, people are overlooking the fact that means McCoy made the top 3. I think McCoy is a hug benefactor of Vick and his ability to run, he does have talent but top 3 I don't think so.
McCoy is the real deal. He doesn't benefit from Vick at all. He'll miss Peters this season, though.

Ntegrase96
09-02-2012, 01:36 AM
Until Ware earns MVP for the season(Like L.T.) then he shouldnt even be considered for number 1

I wasn't comparing cross-era. I meant that Ware is arguably the best defensive player in the league today.

Ntegrase96
09-02-2012, 01:42 AM
I couldn't have said it better I mean the level of disrespect this man gets when you take into account that he has beaten all of those QBs to our offense is very aggressive and it doesn't do justice for Eli cause he doesn't throw a 2yd screen pass or a 5 yard hitch route. I just think it's absurd that you put a OLB ahead of a two time SB winner more then Rodgers or Brees. It's like he saying the SB don't count lol. Also Eli's medicore play to me is pretty damn good considering all thinks taken into account.

Are you insinuating that Eli is better than Rodgers and Brees?

giantsfan420
09-02-2012, 01:42 AM
nah. he's an excellent pass rusher. top 5 easily in that regard. but he isnt anything special vs the run, in fact he's pretty ordinary in that regard. he doesn't drop off into coverage aside from a few times a game. And he doesnt make plays in pass defense.

He's just a pass rush specialist, but a dang good one at that.

Ntegrase96
09-02-2012, 01:56 AM
Of course I've seen Brees' stats. A lot of ints in certain years, but on many more attempts. In addition to that he also has about 100 td passes more.

I'm not saying it's all about stats. That's actually why Romo isn't considered better than Eli in public perception or even my personal opinion.

I'm saying that's why he's behind guys like Rodgers, Brees, Brady, etc... Guys who have proven they're capable of winning but don't have as many blemishes.

dave56dj
09-02-2012, 02:05 AM
DeMarcus Ware is an unreal talent. The fact that he has two 19 plus sack years in unreal and a stat that hasnt been put up in 15 years. His past 7 year sack totals are only equaled by the great reggie white. I am a giants fan and i believe JPP will be an even bigger freak one day - but for now demarcus is unmatched.

This list is about individual talent - but eli one or two - doesnt matter a lick to me - as NTE will tell you he'd rather have those two rings then argue over this silly matter. But you needn't be a homer either - Mccoy is an unreal back and Ware is an unreal DE - credit where credit is due.

I would be willing to make a gentleman's bet and say that in 2 YEAR jpp head this list.

Ntegrase96
09-02-2012, 02:05 AM
nah. he's an excellent pass rusher. top 5 easily in that regard. but he isnt anything special vs the run, in fact he's pretty ordinary in that regard. he doesn't drop off into coverage aside from a few times a game. And he doesnt make plays in pass defense.

He's just a pass rush specialist, but a dang good one at that.

Top 5 all time? Or top 5 current... The first choice is a little ambitious at the moment, but no one outside of Jared Allen has even been in the same stratosphere as him the last few years.

He does what the coaches ask of him. He is plenty able to drop back into coverage. In 2009 I'd say he spent a pretty good amount of time doing that and did very well.

And the very next year he had the best run stop rate of any defender if I'm not mistaken (He usually ranks pretty high). Suggs was a distant second.

krygny
09-02-2012, 02:21 AM
...
Vick over Witten LOOOOOOOOOOOL


What an awful ranking......
Vick over ANYBODY!!!???

The most overrated player in the history of professional sports. How pundits can incessantly extol the accolades of someone who's accomplished nothing and rarely plays a full season anymore, escapes me. Oh, and he's an unrepentant psychotic animal abuser too, so there's that.

I wish somebody would just end his career. The puke doesn't belong on an NFL field.

Eliscruzzz
09-02-2012, 02:26 AM
Nicks is a legit redzone threat. Cruz is definitely a threat.Not really he gets separation and usually scores on yards after the catch I'm talking like a Jimmy Graham or Rob g., Calvin J. Cruz and Nicks score usually on long plays you should know that.

FIFTY6G-MAN
09-02-2012, 02:31 AM
Are you insinuating that Eli is better than Rodgers and Brees?In the clutch.......YES. "Stats dont mean a thing if you dont bring home the ring!!!!!" And yes you can quote me.

Ntegrase96
09-02-2012, 02:33 AM
In the clutch.......YES. "Stats dont mean a thing if you dont bring home the ring!!!!!" And yes you can quote me.


hahaha, nice.

Eliscruzzz
09-02-2012, 02:34 AM
Are you insinuating that Eli is better than Rodgers and Brees?What are you talking about your arguement was based on why Ware is better then Eli so why bring Rodgers and Brees into it? I'm just stating that you continue to diminish Eli's accomplishments which I think isn't unfair and to me yes I think Eliis better then both and I'm not just saying that cause... I'm saying it cause I know how Eli started and how far he has come even though people like you still won't give him credit for what he brings to the table.

FIFTY6G-MAN
09-02-2012, 02:37 AM
hahaha, nice.Thanks, its the best I could come up with since my GF is pissed at me, and i am almost drunk,

dave56dj
09-02-2012, 02:40 AM
Nicks is definitely a green zone target - he is not as large as the TE's or one WR you mentioned but Nicks is very physical and is definitely a threat on the slant and fade.

Eliscruzzz
09-02-2012, 02:42 AM
So DJ Ware, a 2x super bowl champion, is a better player than Demarcus Ware because hes won a few superbowl? Nice logic there bud.

This is a individual list. Demarcus Ware is the best player in the NFL. Elis superbowls were team efforts. Stats will show that Eli isnt exactly putting up huge numbers (minus his yardage total this year). Ware has consistently put up huge numbers on a mediocre defense. As an individual, Ware trumps Eli.

If you honestly think that Eli is the only reason the Giants have won 2 superbowls with him as QB, than you sir, I cant argue with.You don't get it do you with out Eli and his 4th quarter heroics we don't make the playoffs your just simply glausing over that fact there were only 3 QBs better then Eli last year and none of them were in the NFC east, and you know how the media disses Eli all the time so do you think they would have him number 1or 2 if he didn't win the SB last year? Yeah thought so.. of course he is taking superbowls into account.

giantsfan420
09-02-2012, 02:47 AM
Not really he gets separation and usually scores on yards after the catch I'm talking like a Jimmy Graham or Rob g., Calvin J. Cruz and Nicks score usually on long plays you should know that.
IIRC, Cruz led the NFL in TD plays of 65 yds or more with i think 6 of em. Yeah a couple were shorter routes he YAC'd into a TD like the week1 7 TD. But Cruz most def is a dangerous, valid deepfield threat. he had a TON of catches downfield. just bc the corner is defending him 30 yds downfield doesnt mean cruz can't get seperation by running a crisp route...I'd say Cruz is a bigger downfield threat than Gronk and Graham who are more of redzone guys...

and both are most def legit redzone threats. how many redzne tds did they have a piece, like 5?

giantsfan420
09-02-2012, 02:52 AM
Of course I've seen Brees' stats. A lot of ints in certain years, but on many more attempts. In addition to that he also has about 100 td passes more.

I'm not saying it's all about stats. That's actually why Romo isn't considered better than Eli in public perception or even my personal opinion.

I'm saying that's why he's behind guys like Rodgers, Brees, Brady, etc... Guys who have proven they're capable of winning but don't have as many blemishes.

eli is statistically superior to Brees, and pretty much every "elite" qb who isnt under age 26 when u compare it by where eli was at at year 6 to where brees was at at year 6

Eliscruzzz
09-02-2012, 02:57 AM
IIRC, Cruz led the NFL in TD plays of 65 yds or more with i think 6 of em. Yeah a couple were shorter routes he YAC'd into a TD like the week1 7 TD. But Cruz most def is a dangerous, valid deepfield threat. he had a TON of catches downfield. just bc the corner is defending him 30 yds downfield doesnt mean cruz can't get seperation by running a crisp route...I'd say Cruz is a bigger downfield threat than Gronk and Graham who are more of redzone guys...

and both are most def legit redzone threats. how many redzne tds did they have a piece, like 5?I think you misunderstood my point my point was from the 5 yard line and up Eli hasn't cashed in as many times as he should cause he doesn't have a Graham etc. I know Cruz and Nicks have big play abilities but I also think this is why we got MB and Randle taller WR that can go up and get the ball. I'm not taking anything away from them at all.

BeatYale
09-02-2012, 04:19 AM
DeMarcus Ware is absolutely NOT the best player in the league LOL. Whata joke. Im not sure if he even makes the top 10. seriously people, this is a league with names like Peyton Manning, Adrian Peterson, Darell Revis etc. Ware is not close to the best by any stretch.

Only 6 pass rushers in league history have lead the league in sacks 2 times. Ware is one of them along with our man Strahan. Ware has also had 10+ sacks in 6 straight seasons, only 4 other players in league history have done that. He's never missed a game in his career, around here durability is taken seriously - people have a problem with Hakeem Nicks missing 6 games in his career.

Ware, like those other players you mentioned, is arguably the best player at his position (edge rusher). A strong argument can be made for Jared Allen too. He has lead the league in sacks 2 times in recent years, just like Ware has. So I don't understand how you can say he's "not the best by any stretch".

If NFL GM's had to fantasy draft their entire team you can bet that good QB's and DE's/OLB's will be a bigger priority than Running Backs. RB is an easier position to fill and develop. Also, teams with the top rushing attack typically don't make the playoffs or they get eliminated early. With that said it would be hard to consider Adrian Peterson as the best player in the league over Ware.

dmighty326
09-02-2012, 09:49 AM
Who's this and Who's That
Guys, Stop it!! who cares who's ranked higher
At the end of the day, we care about one thing, Wins & Superbowls
and right now

THE GIANTS ARE THE DEFENDING SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS.

Giants5699
09-02-2012, 10:11 AM
i can understand the Cole ranking a little bit actually. This year is JPP's year. If he can replicate or improve on last year's stats (and by all means he should), then he is arguably the best DE in the league. JPP is just a freak.

Marvelousmik
09-02-2012, 10:29 AM
eli is statistically superior to Brees, and pretty much every "elite" qb who isnt under age 26 when u compare it by where eli was at at year 6 to where brees was at at year 6

Year 6 stats


Eli - yards 4021, % 62.3. 27 tds, 14 ints, qb rating 93..

Brees - yards 4418, % 64.3, 26 tds, 11 ints, qb rating 96.

GameTime
09-02-2012, 10:32 AM
Year 6 stats


Eli - yards 4021, % 62.3. 27 tds, 14 ints, qb rating 93..

Brees - yards 4418, % 64.3, 26 tds, 11 ints, qb rating 96.

figured it would something like this. Brees is a better overall QB then Eli. That doesnt bother me one bit. I dont take it personally.

WEG313
09-02-2012, 10:33 AM
Year 6 stats


Eli - yards 4021, % 62.3. 27 tds, 14 ints, qb rating 93..

Brees - yards 4418, % 64.3, 26 tds, 11 ints, qb rating 96.

Yes, and Brees played his games against a MUCH easier regular season schedule, has a far superior OL, and more weapons (especially at RB and TE). Factoring in these considerations, and recognizing the number of late game combacks engineered by Eli, one can definitely argue that Eli had the better season, and was the more valuable player.

Marvelousmik
09-02-2012, 10:41 AM
What are you talking about your arguement was based on why Ware is better then Eli so why bring Rodgers and Brees into it? I'm just stating that you continue to diminish Eli's accomplishments which I think isn't unfair and to me yes I think Eliis better then both and I'm not just saying that cause... I'm saying it cause I know how Eli started and how far he has come even though people like you still won't give him credit for what he brings to the table.

He never discredited Eli or said eli wasnt a good QB. All he did was state facts. Ware is the best player at his position while according to public perception eli usually ranks in at #4. Talent wise ware is better but Eli has a bigger impact for his team since he is the QB. Anyone would take Eli over ware if it were a draft. Eli is a great qb and thats the most important position and probably the hardest to play. You have to understand if someone doesnt rank eli as number 1 it doesnt mean they are bashing him.

Marvelousmik
09-02-2012, 10:49 AM
figured it would something like this. Brees is a better overall QB then Eli. That doesnt bother me one bit. I dont take it personally.

+1 me too dude. I dont care where he ranks within the top 5, i am just happy he is our QB.

mattpl908
09-02-2012, 11:36 AM
i saw a list that had 10 nyg players ...

Ntegrase96
09-02-2012, 11:38 AM
What are you talking about your arguement was based on why Ware is better then Eli so why bring Rodgers and Brees into it? I'm just stating that you continue to diminish Eli's accomplishments which I think isn't unfair and to me yes I think Eliis better then both and I'm not just saying that cause... I'm saying it cause I know how Eli started and how far he has come even though people like you still won't give him credit for what he brings to the table.

No I was trying to clarify what you meant by 'more than Rodgers and Brees'.

I'm not taking anything away from Eli. I think he's a really good QB. I don't think he's the best, but he's certainly top 5.

I've given Eli plenty of credit, but fact is there are a lot of really good QBs in the league. It's not all about stats when judging QBs, and it's not all about team accomplishments either. It's about taking everything you possibly can into context and forming your own opinion.

If we're basing it on team accomplishments alone, Eli would probably be third on the list-- behind Brady and Roethlissberger.

But does anyone believe Roethlissberger is better than Eli? I sure don't. It works both ways. Eli has more team accomplishments than Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers... but don't think that necessarily makes him better than those two guys.

giants8493
09-02-2012, 11:41 AM
You could make a strong argument that he is the best defensive player in the NFL in my opinion. He is undoubtedly the best at his position and has been for years. I do not think he is overrated, because I do think he is THAT good.I would take Jared Allen over Ware.

TheAnalyst
09-02-2012, 11:58 AM
Cole is a great player as well. I dont think that bis too much of a stretch. But after this year, JPP may be #1 on the list. With Ware and Eli following.

The Notorious B.I.G BLUE
09-02-2012, 01:09 PM
So we got 7 of the top 20...I like those numbers

derekunion28
09-02-2012, 01:13 PM
I wish you were a giants fan. I love your honesty and neutral approach to every argument even though it doesnt seem that way this time around. However i agree 100%. I dont think i ever disagreed with something you said yet. isnt that sad ntegrase96 posts like a mature adult... not like some drunk blind homer in junior high school in his moms basement ... hated to say it butt true.... tho i read some of his dallas message board posts and they are some that seem one sided, butt he is a cowboy fan..

Giantz4Life
09-02-2012, 02:39 PM
I would take Jared Allen over Ware.


Not gonna argue with you on that, but just to point out they play in different schemes. An OLB in a 3-4 is different than a 4-3 DE save the pass rushing aspect as I am sure you know. Depends on what kind of scheme your D is running.

BROADWAYSTORM
09-02-2012, 03:19 PM
not that i'm a espn fan, but if you read the explanation and reasoning behind that ranking it makes since, besides JPP came out of nowhere with 16.5 sacks last yr in his second yr i might add. We all know JPP is an athletic beast but lets see a lil bit more longevity and consistency. Now lets see what JPP does after everyone has a season full of tape on him. Believe you me i love me some JPP, but you can't crown a guy off of one season now can we?

By that logic both Tuck and Osi should be ahead of Cole and Babin.

pino
09-02-2012, 03:42 PM
It's Dan Graziano's rankings. He claims to have no favorite team but personally I think he's got a jones for Eagles players. He makes a good point about Cole ahead of Tuck and Osi, but if you are going to make McCoy #3 off his season shouldn't JPP then be ahead of all DE's? Two underachieving WR's ahead of OSI?

Just my biased opinion....

GiantWarfare
09-02-2012, 03:52 PM
I respect Ware alot, dude has been arguably the best pass rusher in the league for a long time now (though I believe JPP's time has arrived). Ware certainly has a case for #1 on this list, I wouldn't argue against it if that is the case. However, whoever thinks he's currently the best player in the league is smoking something righteous. BTW, Graziano ain't no Giants fan.