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View Full Version : Pass rush to offset cornerbacks?



DaveBrown
09-01-2012, 08:57 PM
No offense to Mark Collins, Myron Guyton, Greg Jackson, etc...but the killer pass rush of the LT & co. days certainly helped the secondary back then. With the pass rush of the D-line does anyone think that can help the corners we'll see across from Webster? I know Hosley has promise but concerned with Prince, Coe, & Tryon. Ross did hold up as a savvy veteran when TT/Prince were unavailable and there's no veteran to step in this time around.

Parademon
09-01-2012, 09:25 PM
I've been a Giants fan since 77" & the Giants defense has always been about great LBers & great defensive linemen, the secondary has never really been a top unit & really has never had to be due to the front office's ability to always make sure the front 7 are full of studs. Give any NFL QB more than 3-4 seconds to survey the field & I don't care how great your secondary is, he will find an open reciever. It's not by accident that Brady doesn't pass lights out against us or the Ravens. The Giants & Ravens have what many teams lack when playing the Patriots, the front 7 that can punch Brady in the mouth & give him "happy" feet .

IMO, this Giants front 7 is better than last yr & will more than compensate for our secondary.

jomo
09-01-2012, 09:33 PM
Mais oui!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GMan-67
09-01-2012, 10:48 PM
Collins was great BTW, but to your point ... CBs are no longer allowed to even breathe on the WRs without getting a 50 yard penalty, so the smart teams go after the QB to win ... we are thankfully one of those smart teams ... still having both would be awesome ... just seems hard to make happen

penguinfarmer
09-01-2012, 11:01 PM
Webster - 2nd
Thomas - 2nd
Prince - 1st
Phillips - 1st
Ross - 1st
Hosley - 3rd
Even add Rolle and his lucrative contract for a former 8th overall pick.

Pretty sure the Giants are looking for a lockdown secondary to pair with a dominant pass rush, and not simply have one offset the other. I'm hoping for the same as well.

WEG313
09-01-2012, 11:08 PM
Will Allen was the biggest flop of them all. Webster is above average, but the only two pro-browl caliber corners the Giants have had since the late 1960s were Collins and Sehorn before their respective injuries. That's a total of 3 years between the two of them, and covering the past 45 years of Giants football. Not exactly a great track record. Fortunately, our front 7 has been loaded with all-pros, and have done a pretty effective job of offsetting the average, at best, secondary.

Having said all that, Webster is above-average, and we have one of the best safety duos in the NFL in Rolle and Phillips. Our problems are at the other corner and at nickle....but we're strong at the other 9 1/2 defensive positions (though our LBs could improve a bit in pass coverage).

penguinfarmer
09-01-2012, 11:17 PM
I hated both of the Wills. I took them out because I could have just kept going and adding DBs back to Shaun Williams, Philippi, Thomas Randolph etc etc. But the point is the emphasis on the defense is not always reliant on the front seven. I think they've just been more fortunate [and efficient] in obtaining talent at the defensive line positions opposed to the back end. Based on recent drafts, you have to think they desperately want coverage to be as dominant as pass rushing. One reason why they really pursued Thomas who's extremely versatile on the team that ran the most Nickel.

EJ Blue
09-01-2012, 11:47 PM
I don't think so. Any kind of weakness will be exposed eventually. Pretty much every regular season there is a handful of games where this pass rush gets gassed and under-performs while the DBs simultaneously get shredded apart. We need players to make plays.

joemorrisforprez
09-02-2012, 12:56 AM
No offense to Mark Collins, Myron Guyton, Greg Jackson, etc...but the killer pass rush of the LT & co. days certainly helped the secondary back then. With the pass rush of the D-line does anyone think that can help the corners we'll see across from Webster? I know Hosley has promise but concerned with Prince, Coe, & Tryon. Ross did hold up as a savvy veteran when TT/Prince were unavailable and there's no veteran to step in this time around.

Mark Collins was an excellent corner, and Terry Kinard was a very good safety.

Perry Williams was also a decent corner.

Elvis Patterson was another story.....

Not to take anything away from the currents Giants defense.....but that 1986 Giants defense was flat out ****ing scary. You couldn't run on them....PERIOD. And passing on them wasn't easy, either.

I like Perry Fewell, but Bill Belichick was the best defensive coordinator I've EVER seen.......that guy would figure out what the opponent did in the 1st half, and take it away in the 2nd.

Kase-1
09-02-2012, 01:33 AM
A great pass rush will def draw attention away from the 2ndary's problems. It wont fix our problems in the 2ndary but it will def help us forget about them for the time being.

WEG313
09-02-2012, 09:18 AM
A great pass rush will def draw attention away from the 2ndary's problems. It wont fix our problems in the 2ndary but it will def help us forget about them for the time being.

Again, I think you're exaggerating the extent of the problem. It is not the whole secondary (which has been the case in years past), but rather simply one corner back position and the nickle back in passing situations. Are safeties are both pro-bowl caliber, and Webster is well above average at one corner.

NorwoodBlue
09-02-2012, 09:58 AM
I don't see that we're any different than anybody else. It's become a passing league that heavily favors the receivers. Our secondary is probably well above average for the league. I think Hosley's ball hawling ability is going to really help too, he's Perry Fewell's kind of guy. I'm not sure Prince is the real deal yet, so Hosley is definitely a welcome addition. Our ability to pass rush sets us apart from many teams.

Kase-1
09-02-2012, 10:19 AM
Again, I think you're exaggerating the extent of the problem. It is not the whole secondary (which has been the case in years past), but rather simply one corner back position and the nickle back in passing situations. Are safeties are both pro-bowl caliber, and Webster is well above average at one corner.Well I wont lie, I LOVE our 2 starting safeties, but I want them playing safety not nickelback.

Webby is a stud and will be with us for a long time, but we have a HUGE hole after him in our CB Dept. Prince is hurt way too often, we have no idea what we have in Hoseley, and Tyron/Coe are dimebacks at BEST.

And our Safety depth scares the pants off of me

Parademon
09-02-2012, 11:04 AM
I think with all the rule changes that favor the WR in this new , safety 1st league, the Giants front 7 is the best way to stifle the passing game by getting to the QB within 2-3 seconds of the snap, the 2ndary's main job should be too not allow any YAC on short passes. Today's DB s are hamstrung by all these rules that didn't exist in the 80s. You could bump a reciever at the LOS, you could level him by launching yourself at him as the ball made contact with his hands or chest, now it's a penalty for hitting a 'helpless" reciever! Gimme a break!

That's why I'll always say that WRs of the 70s-80s, even 90s will always be better in my book than todays' pampered, over protected WRs. Mouthy players such as Ochocinco & TO woulda been destroyed by the likes of Lott, Blount, Tatum, etc.

derekunion28
09-02-2012, 12:04 PM
Webster - 2nd
Thomas - 2nd
Prince - 1st
Phillips - 1st
Ross - 1st
Hosley - 3rd
Even add Rolle and his lucrative contract for a former 8th overall pick.

Pretty sure the Giants are looking for a lockdown secondary to pair with a dominant pass rush, and not simply have one offset the other. I'm hoping for the same as well. you hit it on the head..... its not like they say lets spend our draft on lbs offense or des for rush they go after weakness area not expecting anything less.....