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View Full Version : Antrel Rolle rated worst safety in the league



netplus
12-13-2011, 04:48 PM
ProFootballFocus rates every play for every player in the league. Out of 85 safties, Kenny Phillips is rated #10, Rolle is the lowest rated safety, #85! Deon Grant almost as bad at #65. After this season, I hope the Giants cut their losses with Rolle and not re-sign Grant. I am sick and tired of seeing the back of their jerseys as opposing WR's are scoring touchdowns. They are both terrible in pass coverage.

Pakman
12-13-2011, 05:00 PM
Wow!

Spedracer
12-13-2011, 05:04 PM
Who replaces Antrel then? What improvement can they make over him in the draft or FA. This team's defensive scheme is not suited for safety's to ball hawk. And if you aren't racking up 5+ int's a year then PFF probably thinks you're better suited for special teams.

I'm not buying this one.

titwio
12-13-2011, 05:05 PM
Maybe because he rarely plays conventional safety.

jhamburg
12-13-2011, 05:09 PM
ProFootballFocus rates every play for every player in the league. Out of 85 safties, Kenny Phillips is rated #10, Rolle is the lowest rated safety, #85! Deon Grant almost as bad at #65. After this season, I hope the Giants cut their losses with Rolle and not re-sign Grant. I am sick and tired of seeing the back of their jerseys as opposing WR's are scoring touchdowns. They are both terrible in pass coverage.

Dumbest thing I've ever heard. Rolle is a disappointing player but with his salary he would be cut if he were anywhere near that bad.

netplus
12-13-2011, 05:15 PM
PFF ranks all aspects of a player...run defense, pass coverage, penalties, % completed, YAC, just to name a few. Your comment assuming it is based on INT's only is laughable.

netplus
12-13-2011, 05:18 PM
"Dumbest thing I've ever heard. Rolle is a disappointing player but with his salary he would be cut if he were anywhere near that bad. "

Your comment was dumb.

Here is the preview before the Dallas game:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/12/09/three-to-focus-on-giants-cowboys-week-14/

Pakman
12-13-2011, 05:20 PM
Can i get a link?

hadenough
12-13-2011, 05:21 PM
ProFootballFocus rates every play for every player in the league. Out of 85 safties, Kenny Phillips is rated #10, Rolle is the lowest rated safety, #85! Deon Grant almost as bad at #65. After this season, I hope the Giants cut their losses with Rolle and not re-sign Grant. I am sick and tired of seeing the back of their jerseys as opposing WR's are scoring touchdowns. They are both terrible in pass coverage.

So there are 84 better safeties in the league?? Sure....seems realistic. Great analysis

Redeyejedi
12-13-2011, 05:21 PM
ProFootballFocus rates every play for every player in the league. Out of 85 safties, Kenny Phillips is rated #10, Rolle is the lowest rated safety, #85! Deon Grant almost as bad at #65. After this season, I hope the Giants cut their losses with Rolle and not re-sign Grant. I am sick and tired of seeing the back of their jerseys as opposing WR's are scoring touchdowns. They are both terrible in pass coverage.

Dumbest thing I've ever heard. Rolle is a disappointing player but with his salary he would be cut if he were anywhere near that bad. They couldnt cut him before this season the cap hit would be to bad. They can cut him after this season though with a 2.5 million dollar hit if I remember his deal correctly. His cap hit is 7.5 million next year a rather high number. If the Giants dont make the playoffs I would consider cutting a lot of these guys.Jacobs,Canty,Rolle,Diehl all would be cut at the end of the year If I was the GM.

netplus
12-13-2011, 05:24 PM
Link containing rating on Rolle.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/12/09/three-to-focus-on-giants-cowboys-week-14/

The YTD complete league wide rankings are by subscription only.

yatitle
12-13-2011, 05:26 PM
Not surprising to anyone who watches the games. Might have the worst contract in football.

jhamburg
12-13-2011, 05:28 PM
"Dumbest thing I've ever heard. Rolle is a disappointing player but with his salary he would be cut if he were anywhere near that bad. "

Your comment was dumb.

Here is the preview before the Dallas game:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/12/09/three-to-focus-on-giants-cowboys-week-14/

So he's the worst safety in the league because their subjective proprietary rankings say so? who gives a f---

jaygoon
12-13-2011, 05:29 PM
If Rolle is the worst safety in the league than CC Brown hasnt been playing this year.

Come on people, if you think Rolle shouldnt be a NY Giant, you havent been watching games. He plays LB most of the time.

Pakman
12-13-2011, 05:29 PM
Link containing rating on Rolle.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/12/09/three-to-focus-on-giants-cowboys-week-14/

The YTD complete league wide rankings are by subscription only.

Thanks. I have to agree with what some of the other posters said. Rolle really hasn't played Safety all year. Really now would be the time for him to play up top but KP gets injured...leaving him and a much slower Grant.

One thing I can say for sure...CC Brown is worse than Rolle

netplus
12-13-2011, 05:33 PM
CC Brown hasn't played enough snaps to qualify. 32 teams, 85 safties ranked.

hadenough
12-13-2011, 05:34 PM
Link containing rating on Rolle.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/12/09/three-to-focus-on-giants-cowboys-week-14/

The YTD complete league wide rankings are by subscription only.

Thanks. I have to agree with what some of the other posters said. Rolle really hasn't played Safety all year. Really now would be the time for him to play up top but KP gets injured...leaving him and a much slower Grant.

One thing I can say for sure...CC Brown is worse than Rolle


Na...you're wrong. PFF says he's the worst....so he's the worst.

hahaha....PFF....their quote at the bottom of that article is the best......'Rolle completely blew a coverage against Donald Driver that left him wide open in the end zone'. I'm sure PFF knew that it later came out that Rolle actually did his job and Webster did drop back....right??

yatitle
12-13-2011, 05:34 PM
If Rolle is the worst safety in the league than CC Brown hasnt been playing this year. Come on people, if you think Rolle shouldnt be a NY Giant, you havent been watching games. He plays LB most of the time.</P>


You can bring up CC Brown when he signs a contract making him the highest paid safety in NFL history. They are on pace to give up 430 points. How much worse could ANYONE be?</P>

foosball
12-13-2011, 05:40 PM
Those numbers are skewed. Rolle has played most of the season at nickel corner, playing a lot of press coverage because of the injuries to Prince, Thomas, etc. So because of this he has been "burned" more then other safetys. Truth be told he is a very good safety, and a very bad corner.

Pakman
12-13-2011, 05:40 PM
If Rolle is the worst safety in the league than CC Brown hasnt been playing this year. Come on people, if you think Rolle shouldnt be a NY Giant, you havent been watching games. He plays LB most of the time.</p>


You can bring up CC Brown when he signs a contract making him the highest paid safety in NFL history. They are on pace to give up 430 points. How much worse could ANYONE be?</p>
That was more of a Joke..

As much as your talking I guarantee you couldn't realistically sit here and list 84 safeties you would rather have than Rolle.

Until I see Rolle play safety an entire game like KP or Grant does I don't think we can honestly evaluate him. Although, I do agree he is overpaid...He is not the worst safety in the league

RoanokeFan
12-13-2011, 05:56 PM
ProFootballFocus rates every play for every player in the league. Out of 85 safties, Kenny Phillips is rated #10, Rolle is the lowest rated safety, #85! Deon Grant almost as bad at #65. After this season, I hope the Giants cut their losses with Rolle and not re-sign Grant. I am sick and tired of seeing the back of their jerseys as opposing WR's are scoring touchdowns. They are both terrible in pass coverage.

Stats never figure in things like injuries and schemes. Always take them with an eye to not having the whole story.

GiantFanatic55
12-13-2011, 06:19 PM
Maybe because he rarely plays conventional safety.

^This

C1010
12-13-2011, 06:41 PM
Maybe because he rarely plays conventional safety.

x2

netplus
12-13-2011, 06:46 PM
I find it hilarious when people think their analysis of Rolle is more meaningful than a group of people who analyze every player on every play in every game, and who have been doing it for years. Who cares if he lines up close to the line of scrimmage and is playing LB. HE STILL SUCKS. Add in the size of his contract...another GM mistake.

Here are some more Rolle stats for this year

1) has given up 44 receptions (worst in the league)
2) 206 YAC given up (3rd worst in league)
3) has only one INT and ZERO passes defensed.

OK armchair know it alls, defend those stats!

giants63
12-13-2011, 06:49 PM
Agreed! There is no way I could name 84 safeties better than rolle. He might be under achieving, but DEFINETLY not the worst in the league

Spizi
12-13-2011, 07:08 PM
I find it hilarious when people think their analysis of Rolle is more meaningful than a group of people who analyze every player on every play in every game, and who have been doing it for years. Who cares if he lines up close to the line of scrimmage and is playing LB. HE STILL SUCKS. Add in the size of his contract...another GM mistake.

Here are some more Rolle stats for this year

1) has given up 44 receptions (worst in the league)
2) 206 YAC given up (3rd worst in league)
3) has only one INT and ZERO passes defensed.

OK armchair know it alls, defend those stats!

I find it hilarious that a group of people who analyze ever player on every play in every game, and who have been doing it for years say that Rolle is the worst safety in the league.

netplus
12-13-2011, 07:12 PM
Yea, I guess leading the league in receptions given up doesn't qualify him for that. Not to mention the missed tackles, low IQ personal foul penalties, and stupid postgame comments.

nycsportzfan
12-13-2011, 07:15 PM
ProFootballFocus rates every play for every player in the league. Out of 85 safties, Kenny Phillips is rated #10, Rolle is the lowest rated safety, #85! Deon Grant almost as bad at #65. After this season, I hope the Giants cut their losses with Rolle and not re-sign Grant. I am sick and tired of seeing the back of their jerseys as opposing WR's are scoring touchdowns. They are both terrible in pass coverage.

Dumbest thing I've ever heard. Rolle is a disappointing player but with his salary he would be cut if he were anywhere near that bad. They couldnt cut him before this season the cap hit would be to bad. They can cut him after this season though with a 2.5 million dollar hit if I remember his deal correctly. His cap hit is 7.5 million next year a rather high number. If the Giants dont make the playoffs I would consider cutting a lot of these guys.Jacobs,Canty,Rolle,Diehl all would be cut at the end of the year If I was the GM. Coulden't agree more I've been saying the same thing for weeks now If we don't make the playoffs then its time to let alot of these Vets that have been around for 3straight DEC collapses go! I'd include Webster in that list as well But thats just me

stormblue
12-13-2011, 07:18 PM
If Rolle is the worst safety in the league than CC Brown hasnt been playing this year.

Come on people, if you think Rolle shouldnt be a NY Giant, you havent been watching games. He plays LB most of the time.

yup somebody has to cuz the linebackers can't stop the run or cover the tight end or slot - rec.

but he does consistently blow coverages over the top on the defensive left behind webster..
or maybe its webster .....but two or 3 times a game they obviously disagree on who shoulda covered who.

you can see them pointin' and yakkin' at each after one of them gets burned.

and i don't mean the obvious wide open stuff like the ones the other night....i mean the constant onslaught of 8 yards 12 yards 7 yards......16 yards on a 3rd and 14 after a sack.

all day long every freakin' game.
i bet we have the least amount of pumt return yards in the league.....because the other team never punts.
touchdown, field goal , or turnover.
i betcha we average less forced punts than any other team with a .500 record or better.

there i go off -topic and ramblin' on again,,,, ...sorry .....i'll shut-up now.

TuckYou
12-13-2011, 07:20 PM
There is no way in hell Rolle is the worst safety in the league. I dont know how they come up with this stuff but it is ridiculous. Is he worth his contract? Probably not. But he is no way the worst safety in football. Giants are asking him to cover a ton of ground and basically play LB sometimes. </P>


Id say our secondary as a whole could be the worst in the league though...</P>

Spizi
12-13-2011, 07:21 PM
Yea, I guess leading the league in receptions given up doesn't qualify him for that. Not to mention the missed tackles, low IQ personal foul penalties, and stupid postgame comments.

PFF can't know what the assignments are on each play which means they cannot accurately rate every player on every play of every game. How do they know for example when Rolle is supposed to stick with a WR or let them go etc or other things they could never know because they arent the d coordinator. This isn't madden where man is man and zone is zone. This is the nfl where schemes are complex and you can't accurately judge the players as an outsider.

TuckYou
12-13-2011, 07:23 PM
ProFootballFocus rates every play for every player in the league. Out of 85 safties, Kenny Phillips is rated #10, Rolle is the lowest rated safety, #85! Deon Grant almost as bad at #65. After this season, I hope the Giants cut their losses with Rolle and not re-sign Grant. I am sick and tired of seeing the back of their jerseys as opposing WR's are scoring touchdowns. They are both terrible in pass coverage. Dumbest thing I've ever heard. Rolle is a disappointing player but with his salary he would be cut if he were anywhere near that bad. They couldnt cut him before this season the cap hit would be to bad. They can cut him after this season though with a 2.5 million dollar hit if I remember his deal correctly. His cap hit is 7.5 million next year a rather high number. If the Giants dont make the playoffs I would consider cutting a lot of these guys.Jacobs,Canty,Rolle,Diehl all would be cut at the end of the year If I was the GM. Coulden't agree more I've been saying the same thing for weeks now If we don't make the playoffs then its time to let alot of these Vets that have been around for 3straight DEC collapses go! I'd include Webster in that list as well But thats just me
</P>


HA! We would be absolutely horrible after cutting all those guys... If not for our injuries, we would of been fine. Thomas, Johnson, Witherspoon, Tryon, Coe all out for the year. Prince barely played. Killed our depth. Ross is still horrible as shown last game and will be let go next season. </P>

stormblue
12-13-2011, 07:31 PM
There is no way in hell Rolle is the worst safety in the league. I dont know how they come up with this stuff but it is ridiculous. Is he worth his contract? Probably not. But he is no way the worst safety in football. Giants are asking him to cover a ton of ground and basically play LB sometimes. </P>


Id say our secondary as a whole could be the worst in the league though...</P>

if they aren't then the linebackers are.
either way its the worst back seven in the league..
well maybe the colts and bills are worse.

netplus
12-13-2011, 07:36 PM
"PFF can't know what the assignments are on each play which means they cannot accurately rate every player on every play of every game. "

How do you explain ZERO passes defensed? I can't wait for this reasoning.

Spizi
12-13-2011, 07:51 PM
"PFF can't know what the assignments are on each play which means they cannot accurately rate every player on every play of every game. "

How do you explain ZERO passes defensed? I can't wait for this reasoning.

He has 3 PDs on the year... fing dumb *** mother ****er

And if you're going to bring up PDs then we should put JPP at safety because he has 6 PDs. He's obviously better than Rolle right? What an idiot.

netplus
12-13-2011, 07:57 PM
"fing dumb *** mother *** "

How old are you, twelve?

He has zero, and even if he had three that would still suck when giving up 44 receptions.

nYg24
12-13-2011, 08:02 PM
The guy has made the pro bowl the last couple years...i dont think he's played his proper position since he's been here. You guys must not watch the games or something.

FlyingTruck
12-13-2011, 08:04 PM
If Rolle is the worst safety in the league than CC Brown hasnt been playing this year.

Come on people, if you think Rolle shouldnt be a NY Giant, you havent been watching games. He plays LB most of the time.I agree with this. Yeah, he hasn't been the greatest this year..but the worst? Get real.

Overdrive92
12-13-2011, 08:07 PM
Let me guess. Jason-Pierre Paul is the worst DE in the league too, huh? And Hakeem Nicks is the worst WR right?

Spizi
12-13-2011, 08:08 PM
"fing dumb *** mother *** "

How old are you, twelve?

He has zero, and even if he had three that would still suck when giving up 44 receptions.

you're wrong so you resort to saying I'm 12 hahahahahahahaha what a joke. No I'm not 12 but when someone calls me out and they are wrong they are going to hear it like you just did dumb ***. Check his stats he has 3 PDs on the year.

All I'm saying is that Rolle is not the 85th safety in the NFL. The way you're defending this website kinda sounds like you work for them which would make sense because you obviously know nothing.

netplus
12-13-2011, 08:13 PM
"Let me guess. Jason-Pierre Paul is the worst DE in the league too, huh? And Hakeem Nicks is the worst WR right?"

Pure studs.


"The guy has made the pro bowl the last couple years..."

Yea, Shaun O'Hara made it last year too. So much for that argument.


"All I'm saying is that Rolle is not the 85th safety in the NFL."

That's not the point. The point is HE SUCKS, and he needs to be replaced next year.

giants63
12-13-2011, 08:20 PM
He also leads the team in tackles...

BBlueSince82
12-13-2011, 08:23 PM
Yeah I have to agree with other posters here, Rolle has had to play out of position MOST of the year, due our decimated secondary. He is constantly getting shuffled around, and has not been able to develop a rhythm. I still believe has has loads of talent, and once he find his groove he can be a great player. (although I do admit his play HAS been sub-par much of the year), but for reasons stated above..

JJC7301
12-13-2011, 08:55 PM
My understanding that he's had different assignments due to the other injuries on the team (re: TT and Goff).

bleeding blue
12-13-2011, 09:01 PM
Maybe because he rarely plays conventional safety.

x2

+3 this one liner should basically close all arguments /end thread

T-Murda84
12-13-2011, 10:28 PM
Lol alot of you fans do not want to believe it...but hes not that good. Forget Pro Bowls its a popularity contest. I think PFF goes overboard calling him the worst safety, but hes not to far away from it. PFF also said that Rolle and Grant combined MISSED 13 TACKLES!!!! We are in trouble if our corners tackle bettter than our safeties. Last season he made the Pro Bowl, but he constantly gotten beat deep or lost contain (especially against the Eagles last season).

Im sorry but Rolle is overrated. If u dont think so...Answer this: Has Rolle lived up to his contract? Did Rolle have a bigger impact with the Cards or with the Giants? Kenny Phillips was having a great year backing up a sorry Aaron Ross, but Rolle is giving up big plays when hes playing side by side with our best corner.

Pakman
12-13-2011, 10:34 PM
"PFF can't know what the assignments are on each play which means they cannot accurately rate every player on every play of every game. "

How do you explain ZERO passes defensed? I can't wait for this reasoning.

He has 3 PDs on the year... fing dumb *** mother ****er

And if you're going to bring up PDs then we should put JPP at safety because he has 6 PDs. He's obviously better than Rolle right? What an idiot.



GOT EM LOL. Rolle does have an interception too

Pakman
12-13-2011, 10:38 PM
Lol alot of you fans do not want to believe it...but hes not that good. Forget Pro Bowls its a popularity contest. I think PFF goes overboard calling him the worst safety, but hes not to far away from it. PFF also said that Rolle and Grant combined MISSED 13 TACKLES!!!! We are in trouble if our corners tackle bettter than our safeties. Last season he made the Pro Bowl, but he constantly gotten beat deep or lost contain (especially against the Eagles last season).

Im sorry but Rolle is overrated. If u dont think so...Answer this: Has Rolle lived up to his contract? Did Rolle have a bigger impact with the Cards or with the Giants? Kenny Phillips was having a great year backing up a sorry Aaron Ross, but Rolle is giving up big plays when hes playing side by side with our best corner.

See this type of comment I can respect. That's a great point on giving up plays while playing over Web.

I don't think anyone expected he would live up to his contract. I still would like to see him play in another scheme or at least not have to worry about playing CB

netplus
12-14-2011, 12:26 AM
"I still would like to see him play in another scheme"

He played in a different scheme in Arizona. He was drafted as a CB and moved to safety in 2008 because his cover skills suck! And then in 2010, the Cardinals, in order to avoid a $4 million roster bonus, released Rolle. And our GM gives him 37 million. Brilliant!

EJ Blue
12-14-2011, 12:45 AM
It's funny how quickly people forget C.C Brown and Aaron Rouse.

Shut up. These safeties are staying put.

netplus
12-14-2011, 12:52 AM
"C.C Brown and Aaron Rouse"

Other teams rejects, just like Rolle!

stormblue
12-14-2011, 12:56 AM
It's funny how quickly people forget C.C Brown and Aaron Rouse.

Shut up. These safeties are staying put.


yes , just like my wife.....because of the money and time that i have already invested in her.
i have to keep her , she is staying put.

that doesn't mean she can cook with fire.

nycsportzfan
12-14-2011, 08:04 AM
ProFootballFocus rates every play for every player in the league. Out of 85 safties, Kenny Phillips is rated #10, Rolle is the lowest rated safety, #85! Deon Grant almost as bad at #65. After this season, I hope the Giants cut their losses with Rolle and not re-sign Grant. I am sick and tired of seeing the back of their jerseys as opposing WR's are scoring touchdowns. They are both terrible in pass coverage. Dumbest thing I've ever heard. Rolle is a disappointing player but with his salary he would be cut if he were anywhere near that bad. They couldnt cut him before this season the cap hit would be to bad. They can cut him after this season though with a 2.5 million dollar hit if I remember his deal correctly. His cap hit is 7.5 million next year a rather high number. If the Giants dont make the playoffs I would consider cutting a lot of these guys.Jacobs,Canty,Rolle,Diehl all would be cut at the end of the year If I was the GM. Coulden't agree more I've been saying the same thing for weeks now If we don't make the playoffs then its time to let alot of these Vets that have been around for 3straight DEC collapses go! I'd include Webster in that list as well But thats just me
</p>


HA! We would be absolutely horrible after cutting all those guys... If not for our injuries, we would of been fine. Thomas, Johnson, Witherspoon, Tryon, Coe all out for the year. Prince barely played. Killed our depth. Ross is still horrible as shown last game and will be let go next season. </p> Well i agree injuries have played a big part in our season but most of the Injuries aren't to the older vets but guys who i agree should stay around THere is nothing about our injuries that has to do with the Veterans on this team If we have another collapse(IF!!) then its time to start building around the next nucleus of this team which is Eli JPP Nicks Austin TT Prince Cruz Ballard Bradshaw and a few others It looks like our Key Vets have lost there fire or somthing as there is just to many games over the past 3yrs that we've been completely fireless and just not even in the plays let alone making any! Your response reminds me of the OSI TRADE talk threads in the offseason when people would say " no u can't trade osi!!! " How'd that turn out?? I'll tell ya one thing Were not getting a 2nd for him anymore!

nycsportzfan
12-14-2011, 08:12 AM
There is no way in hell Rolle is the worst safety in the league. I dont know how they come up with this stuff but it is ridiculous. Is he worth his contract? Probably not. But he is no way the worst safety in football. Giants are asking him to cover a ton of ground and basically play LB sometimes. </p>


Id say our secondary as a whole could be the worst in the league though...</p> Rolle came here to make plays as thats what we lacked from our Safties and what we needed and Fewell had great success with George Wilson and the Byrd in buffalo Well hes been anything but a playmaker and it's really utterly insane to think hes been worth the signing I'd be willing to bet we could of got 15other safties to do what hes done for us with his snap count He makes stupid penalties and u see him on the wrong side of to many big plays by the opposition If anything u could possibly say hes been Adequete at best since joining the giants If Rolle played for a Hated Rival of the Giants everyone on this site would be laughing at there high price semi-bust

nycsportzfan
12-14-2011, 08:15 AM
l
It's funny how quickly people forget C.C Brown and Aaron Rouse.
o
Shut up. These safeties are staying put.
So because we had CC and Rouse we gotta be ok with mediocre safety play???lol So if we had Curtis Painter at QB and then went and got say David Garrard Would we be able to want better QB play???lol

barran21
12-14-2011, 08:26 AM
Giants paying paying Rolle a lot to play like CC brown and Rouse...IMO it's time to cut him and pay KP that money..

Firenugget
12-14-2011, 09:47 AM
Yeah..Our leading tackler for what, the 3rd year now? Is horrible....[:#]

ryan12
12-14-2011, 09:49 AM
our saftey tandeum was was supposed to be so good and they all suck

Spedracer
12-14-2011, 09:54 AM
If I'm GM, I stick with Rolle. He isn't the worst safety in the league.

I'm just a dumb Giants fan though.

nycsportzfan
12-14-2011, 09:54 AM
Yeah..Our leading tackler for what, the 3rd year now? Is horrible....[:#]
well when your part of a dreadful defense CC Brown was 3rd on the tea<span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">m in tackles with only 7starts the yr he was here So u were saying?
</span>

Firenugget
12-14-2011, 10:04 AM
Yeah..Our leading tackler for what, the 3rd year now? Is horrible....[:#]
well when your part of a dreadful defense CC Brown was 3rd on the tea<span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">m in tackles with only 7starts the yr he was here So u were saying?
</span>

I have no idea how to argue with insanity, sorry. If you want to say that he's overpaid, thats fine. But to outright claim he's bad or even mention him with freakin CC is just that, insane. The guy has done everything this team has asked of him and has done it as well as anyone could have hoped.

Let me see KP play some nickel corner.

T-Murda84
12-14-2011, 10:54 AM
Yeah..Our leading tackler for what, the 3rd year now? Is horrible....[:#]
** well when your part of a dreadful defense**** CC Brown was 3rd on the tea<span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">m in tackles with only 7starts the yr he was here****** So u were saying?
</span>

I have no idea how to argue with insanity, sorry. If you want to say that he's overpaid, thats fine. But to outright claim he's bad or even mention him with freakin CC is just that, insane. The guy has done everything this team has asked of him and has done it as well as anyone could have hoped.

Let me see KP play some nickel corner.



Have u been watching the games this season?!?! Rolle has been playing pretty similiar to "Cant Cover" Brown...but in CC Brown's defense, we didnt have a pass rush. Rolle is having a great pass rush in front of him, yet he stills continues to give up the big play. We have drafted guys like Tyler Sash and Chad Jones because Reese knows that these safeties will give up the deep ball.

Playing nickel corner has nothing to do with not knowing your assignments. And I think he plays nickel corner better than Safety anyway.

Redeyejedi
12-14-2011, 11:03 AM
If I'm GM, I stick with Rolle. He isn't the worst safety in the league. I'm just a dumb Giants fan though.He isbetter then average but he is being paid like the best safety in the league. Giants defense sux because there over paying guys like him and Canty. For the 16 million dollar a year average there paying those 2 the money can be spent better

hadenough
12-14-2011, 11:05 AM
Yeah..Our leading tackler for what, the 3rd year now? Is horrible....[:#]
well when your part of a dreadful defense CC Brown was 3rd on the tea<span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">m in tackles with only 7starts the yr he was here So u were saying?
</span>

I have no idea how to argue with insanity, sorry. If you want to say that he's overpaid, thats fine. But to outright claim he's bad or even mention him with freakin CC is just that, insane. The guy has done everything this team has asked of him and has done it as well as anyone could have hoped.

Let me see KP play some nickel corner.



Have u been watching the games this season?!?! Rolle has been playing pretty similiar to "Cant Cover" Brown...but in CC Brown's defense, we didnt have a pass rush. Rolle is having a great pass rush in front of him, yet he stills continues to give up the big play. We have drafted guys like Tyler Sash and Chad Jones because Reese knows that these safeties will give up the deep ball.

Playing nickel corner has nothing to do with not knowing your assignments. And I think he plays nickel corner better than Safety anyway.

How do you know what assignments are his? If Reese drafted Sash to play over Rolle....how come he doesn't play?

hadenough
12-14-2011, 11:11 AM
They have Rolle ranked 9th here. Quite a difference from 85th......hahahaha.....85th??? That deserves a cmon man

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/27282/power-rankings-top-10-nfl-safeties

MattMeyerBud
12-14-2011, 11:29 AM
ProFootballFocus rates every play for every player in the league. Out of 85 safties, Kenny Phillips is rated #10, Rolle is the lowest rated safety, #85! Deon Grant almost as bad at #65. After this season, I hope the Giants cut their losses with Rolle and not re-sign Grant. I am sick and tired of seeing the back of their jerseys as opposing WR's are scoring touchdowns. They are both terrible in pass coverage.

garbage

there was another study like this about last season that had listed JPP as one of the worst DEs in the league

stupid ****

MattMeyerBud
12-14-2011, 11:32 AM
If I'm GM, I stick with Rolle. He isn't the worst safety in the league. I'm just a dumb Giants fan though.He isbetter then average but he is being paid like the best safety in the league. Giants defense sux because there over paying guys like him and Canty. For the 16 million dollar a year average there paying those 2 the money can be spent better

his ability to move to slot CB, up as LB, and play saftey has been crucial for us. Hes def had his miscues this season but hes been solid...

netplus
12-14-2011, 11:48 AM
"he leads the team in tackles"

With 9 missed tackles he is average at best in tackling. His pass coverage is awful. You can't beat teams like Green Bay and New Orleans with a safety who can't pass defend.


"How do you know what assignments are his?"

It doesn't matter. Wherever he plays he SUCKS. Making excuses for a player who leads the league in receptions given up is insanity.

MattMeyerBud
12-14-2011, 11:58 AM
"he leads the team in tackles"

With 9 missed tackles he is average at best in tackling. He pass coverage is awful. You can't beat teams like Green Bay and New Orleans with safeties who can't pass defend.


"How do you know what assignments are his?"

It doesn't matter. Wherever he plays he SUCKS. Making excuses for a player who leads the league in receptions given up is insanity.

lol yea he really sucked so bad at coverage that we moved him to nickel CB

your post above shows how little you know what your talking about. "It doesn't matter what his assignments are"?

ChrisCalloway1282
12-14-2011, 12:14 PM
Doesn't matter who he covers or what his assignment is? Do you know how dumb that sounds?
Would you get on Kiwi if he was asked to cover Graham vs. a slow, immobile blocking type TE? Of course not, because you know that is a mis-match. Same thing applies here, where Rolle is consistently covering 1's and 2's from other teams who line up in the slot, something most safeties are not asked to EVER do, as they are off the LOS in coverage on passing downs. I will guarantee he has matched up 1 on 1 with receivers twice as much as any other safety in the league this year, and has gone against most of the best offenses as well (GB, NE, NO, Dal, Eagles twice). That seems to be more challenging than anything most, if any, safeties have faced this year, especially out of position.
As has already been explained, this is due to way too many injuries this year, and Rolle being out of position because of it. He is a good to very good safety and an average CB. This has been established. While I agree cutting down on the missed tackles would be good, that average is still well under 1 per game, which is not horrendous for a guy asked to play SS, LB, and NCB throughout the course of any given half this year.

netplus
12-14-2011, 12:28 PM
"lol yea he really sucked so bad at coverage that we moved him to nickel CB"

He sucked last year too. Last year, 77.8% of the passes thrown to the guy he was covering were completed (5th worst in the league), so it is not just this year and being moved to nickel CB

MattMeyerBud
12-14-2011, 12:29 PM
"lol yea he really sucked so bad at coverage that we moved him to nickel CB"

He sucked last year too. Last year, 77.8% of the passes thrown to the guy he was covering were completed (5th worst in the league), so it is not just this year and being moved to nickel CB

lol

u obviously have no idea what your talking about, so whatever you need to do to get through the day here

T-Murda84
12-14-2011, 12:38 PM
Rolle leads the team in tackles only because we have linebackers that constantly get rotated. We have nickel linebackers and base linebackers that are always rotated...and the overpaid Boley stays hurt.

Rolle isnt worth the contract he has. We paid him like one of the best safeties in the game...and he hasnt produced. He misses a ton of tackles and u dont NEED PROFOOTBALL FOCUS TOO SEE THAT IDIOTS.

What about last year when he clearly missed contain on Mccoy that led to an Eagle TD. What about last year when Nelson burned him for a TD. I cringed everytime JPP cannot swat the pass down from his DE position because I know Rolle will be sumwhere pointing to his DBs or the DBs pointing back at him. Reese goofed up on giving him a contract like that.....AND NO1 HERE CAN SAY HE IS WORTH HIS CONTRACT. Kenny Phillips is better than Rolle.

netplus
12-14-2011, 12:38 PM
"have no idea what your talking about, "

I have no idea what I am taking about? Look in the mirror. You are making stupid excuses for a guy who for the last two years is near the bottom of the league in pass coverage stats. That is fact. Anyone who makes excuses for Rolle knowing those facts has no idea what they are talking about.

barran21
12-14-2011, 12:44 PM
Yeah..Our leading tackler for what, the 3rd year now? Is horrible....[:#]


And TT was the leading tackler last season, but as a CB he rated in the bottom half of the league...

MattMeyerBud
12-14-2011, 12:47 PM
"have no idea what your talking about, "

I have no idea what I am taking about? Look in the mirror. You are making stupid excuses for a guy who for the last two years is near the bottom of the league in pass coverage stats. That is fact. Anyone who makes excuses for Rolle knowing those facts has no idea what they are talking about.

the fact you are using PASS COVER STATS proves my points...

how many times was he thrown on? How legit is your source for such flaky stat?

The fact that you suggest hes there are 60 other better safteys in the league is so moronic that I don't even know what to tell you.

Like I siad before, there was another website like this in preseason that had stupid stats like this that proved JPP was one of the 10 worst DEs in the league last year. Stop being a stat *****, especially on made up stats

Spedracer
12-14-2011, 12:48 PM
"have no idea what your talking about, "

I have no idea what I am taking about? Look in the mirror. You are making stupid excuses for a guy who for the last two years is near the bottom of the league in pass coverage stats. That is fact. Anyone who makes excuses for Rolle knowing those facts has no idea what they are talking about.

Everyone should be ashamed they are arguing with a professor in statistics. SHAME!

What other useful rhetoric can you drop on us, Professor netplus?

MattMeyerBud
12-14-2011, 12:49 PM
Yeah..Our leading tackler for what, the 3rd year now? Is horrible....[:#]


And TT was the leading tackler last season, but as a CB he rated in the bottom half of the league...


haha forgot about that one too

its fine u don't like Rolle, I can see where people will have their gripes but to suggest he shouldn't even be o anything more than a backup on EVERY NFL team in the league is insanity.... or ignorance

barran21
12-14-2011, 12:54 PM
Yeah..Our leading tackler for what, the 3rd year now? Is horrible....[:#]


And TT was the leading tackler last season, but as a CB he rated in the bottom half of the league...


haha forgot about that one too

its fine u don't like Rolle, I can see where people will have their gripes but to suggest he shouldn't even be o anything more than a backup on EVERY NFL team in the league is insanity.... or ignorance


He's getting Ed Reed money and performing like CC brown, Reese over paid him...

MattMeyerBud
12-14-2011, 01:00 PM
Yeah..Our leading tackler for what, the 3rd year now? Is horrible....[:#]


And TT was the leading tackler last season, but as a CB he rated in the bottom half of the league...


haha forgot about that one too

its fine u don't like Rolle, I can see where people will have their gripes but to suggest he shouldn't even be o anything more than a backup on EVERY NFL team in the league is insanity.... or ignorance


He's getting Ed Reed money and performing like CC brown, Reese over paid him...



First off, he got an Ed Reed deal 5 years later.. the ed reed deal isn't an ed reed deal anymore. Had Ed Reed gotten a contract the smae year Rolle did it would of been significantly bigger

CC BRown? #teamdramatic

you really don't remember CC Brown. HE has def has his blown coverages and mistakes (as far as we know) but thats stupid. IF he was that bad, he'll be gone next year. Fans may hang onto names, but organizations don't. Especially if the organizations are paying big money

come back to reality

netplus
12-14-2011, 01:07 PM
"the fact you are using PASS COVER STATS proves my points...

how many times was he thrown on? How legit is your source for such flaky stat?
"

Why do you think he is thrown at alot? Because 77.8% of passes thrown to the guy he is covering are completed. That's not a flaky stat. Thats OC's game planning the weak link on defense.

I don't need stats to see Rolle is horrible, I see it on my TV every week. I shared the stats from PFF because he is even worse than I thought. I had no idea there were so many Giant fans who don't see what I see on the TV every week. Hilarious!

MattMeyerBud
12-14-2011, 01:20 PM
"the fact you are using PASS COVER STATS proves my points...

how many times was he thrown on? How legit is your source for such flaky stat?
"

Why do you think he is thrown at alot? Because 77.8% of passes thrown to the guy he is covering are completed. That's not a flaky stat. Thats OC's game planning the weak link on defense.

I don't need stats to see Rolle is horrible, I see it on my TV every week. I shared the stats from PFF because he is even worse than I thought. I had no idea there were so many Giant fans who don't see what I see on the TV every week. Hilarious!

i actually don't think he gets thrown on "ALOT"

What constitutes as a completed pass? Its subjective in a a zone scheme wouldn't you say?

The point is you tried to express your opinion and thats fine, but you backed it up with a stat that you should wipe your *** with. Again for the third time, you've yet to acknowledge the stat that cmae out this preseason about how JPP was one of the worst DEs in the game last year

netplus
12-14-2011, 01:28 PM
"you've yet to acknowledge the stat that cmae out this preseason about how JPP was one of the worst DEs in the game last year"

Whatever site you got this stat from is obviously meaningless. PFF is used by NFL teams, players, players agents, and the media. And I just checked stats on PFF for JPP last year. In only 409 snaps, he had a +6.0 overall rating which is incredible for a first year player. He had 4 sacks plus 4 QB hits and 16 QB pressures. Simply awesome. Go wipe your a** with the stats from the trash site you are talking about.

MattMeyerBud
12-14-2011, 01:33 PM
LMAO. sure it is...

i was just coming back to this thread to make fun of you that you either A) paid for those stats or B) are a writer for that site trying to get hype for it

Gianthunter
12-14-2011, 01:40 PM
Must have network feed my TVdoesn't show every play. [:-*]

JMGGIANTS
12-14-2011, 02:50 PM
This can't be true...if you ask Antrelle that is LOL. Boy his mouth sure reflects a top 10 safety, not the worst.

Kase-1
12-14-2011, 03:13 PM
ProFootballFocus rates every play for every player in the league. Out of 85 safties, Kenny Phillips is rated #10, Rolle is the lowest rated safety, #85! Deon Grant almost as bad at #65. After this season, I hope the Giants cut their losses with Rolle and not re-sign Grant. I am sick and tired of seeing the back of their jerseys as opposing WR's are scoring touchdowns. They are both terrible in pass coverage.

garbage

there was another study like this about last season that had listed JPP as one of the worst DEs in the league

stupid ****
I think someone else posted something like this the other day about these stats, and some of the 'worst safeties' were Ed Reed and Troy P with a few other of the best in the NFL.... Their webstie is a pain in the wahzoo the get around though, LOL

JMGGIANTS
12-14-2011, 03:28 PM
okay thanks Kase, if the ratings place Ed Reed at the bottom it is pretty mudh a useless rating grid.

Tony Bruno
12-14-2011, 03:31 PM
Rolle is way better than Grandpa...

netplus
12-14-2011, 03:42 PM
"I think someone else posted something like this the other day about these stats, and some of the 'worst safeties' were Ed Reed and Troy P with a few other of the best in the NFL.... "

PFF has Reed at #4 and TroyP at #5.

MattMeyerBud
12-14-2011, 05:23 PM
"I think someone else posted something like this the other day about these stats, and some of the 'worst safeties' were Ed Reed and Troy P with a few other of the best in the NFL.... "

PFF has Reed at #4 and TroyP at #5.

at least man up and admit u work for the website

nycsportzfan
12-14-2011, 07:28 PM
Yeah..Our leading tackler for what, the 3rd year now? Is horrible....[:#]
well when your part of a dreadful defense CC Brown was 3rd on the tea<span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">m in tackles with only 7starts the yr he was here So u were saying?
</span>

I have no idea how to argue with insanity, sorry. If you want to say that he's overpaid, thats fine. But to outright claim he's bad or even mention him with freakin CC is just that, insane. The guy has done everything this team has asked of him and has done it as well as anyone could have hoped.

Let me see KP play some nickel corner.
Uhhh I mentioned him with Rolle because if u could read you would see the post i was replying to mentioned Rolle leading the team in tackles like that established him being a good player for us Like i said CC brown was 3rd in Tackles with only 7starts when he was here Do u get it now? When u play of a horrible pass defense Safties tend to rack up tackles Rolle has not been that good for us and it woulden't be surprising if we cut him after the yr if we didnt make the playoffs

Gianthunter
12-14-2011, 07:50 PM
Yeah..Our leading tackler for what, the 3rd year now? Is horrible....[:#]
well when your part of a dreadful defense CC Brown was 3rd on the tea<SPAN id=_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription>m in tackles with only 7starts the yr he was here So u were saying?
</SPAN>

I have no idea how to argue with insanity, sorry. If you want to say that he's overpaid, thats fine. But to outright claim he's bad or even mention him with freakin CC is just that, insane. The guy has done everything this team has asked of him and has done it as well as anyone could have hoped.

Let me see KP play some nickel corner.
Uhhh I mentioned him with Rolle because if u could read you would see the post i was replying to mentioned Rolle leading the team in tackles like that established him being a good player for us Like i said CC brown was 3rd in Tackles with only 7starts when he was here Do u get it now? When u play of a horrible pass defense Safties tend to rack up tackles Rolle has not been that good for us and it woulden't be surprising if we cut him after the yr if we didnt make the playoffs
C C Brown was very good at playing the run. Hence tackles which is also something we are missing with KP out.

netplus
12-14-2011, 07:58 PM
CC Brown and Antrel Rolle tackle numbers are high because they give up so many receptions.

nycsportzfan
12-14-2011, 09:37 PM
Yeah..Our leading tackler for what, the 3rd year now? Is horrible....[:#]
well when your part of a dreadful defense CC Brown was 3rd on the tea<span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">m in tackles with only 7starts the yr he was here So u were saying?
</span>

I have no idea how to argue with insanity, sorry. If you want to say that he's overpaid, thats fine. But to outright claim he's bad or even mention him with freakin CC is just that, insane. The guy has done everything this team has asked of him and has done it as well as anyone could have hoped.

Let me see KP play some nickel corner.
Uhhh I mentioned him with Rolle because if u could read you would see the post i was replying to mentioned Rolle leading the team in tackles like that established him being a good player for us Like i said CC brown was 3rd in Tackles with only 7starts when he was here Do u get it now? When u play of a horrible pass defense Safties tend to rack up tackles Rolle has not been that good for us and it woulden't be surprising if we cut him after the yr if we didnt make the playoffs
C C Brown was very good at playing the run. Hence tackles which is also something we are missing with KP out. Ya and Rolle has been a solid Run Defender in his time here as well The bottom line is Total Tackles on the GIants over the last few yrs dosen't exactly mean you've played well The defense as a whole has been quite a mess for the better part of 3seasons now and Antrel Rolle has done nothing to change that And thats a fact Am i saying hes not gonna play better ever while with us? No of course not! But 2 this point hes been anything but special at all!

Gianthunter
12-14-2011, 10:23 PM
CC Brown and Antrel Rolle tackle numbers are high because they give up so many receptions.<FONT size=6>WTF?[8-)][*-)]</FONT>

slipknottin
12-15-2011, 12:08 AM
I really don't understand how so few people realize that you can't judge secondary play by the angles they show on tv at all.

You need all-22 film at a bare minimum to even start to evaluate secondary play. You need all-22 film AND the play call to start to accurately evaluate play.

That dez Bryant TD is a perfect example. Was it cover 2 or cover 3? PFF concluded, based on absolutely nothing, that Rolle was at fault, giving him a massive negative cover grade. Yet if the play call was cover 3 like Rolle says, then he was exactly where he was supposed to be.

You just can not say if a player did something wrong or right unless you know what it is he was supposed to do.

w_mann5
12-15-2011, 01:17 AM
I find it hilarious when people think their analysis of Rolle is more meaningful than a group of people who analyze every player on every play in every game, and who have been doing it for years. Who cares if he lines up close to the line of scrimmage and is playing LB. HE STILL SUCKS. Add in the size of his contract...another GM mistake. fromthisseat.com (http://www.fromthisseat.com).

Here are some more Rolle stats for this year

1) has given up 44 receptions (worst in the league)
2) 206 YAC given up (3rd worst in league)
3) has only one INT and ZERO passes defensed.

OK armchair know it alls, defend those stats!

I always thought Rolle was one of the more recognizable secondary names in the NFL. That could be becuase he is Samari and Ochocinco's relative. Or becuase the Giants play every Monday and Sunday night. : )
Those stats tell the story and is likely what the list was based off of.
Didn't look at the list. Who was the best? In my eyes, two of the best safeties in the league are Bernard Pollard and Antoine Bethea.

Firenugget
12-15-2011, 06:52 AM
Yeah..Our leading tackler for what, the 3rd year now? Is horrible....[:#]
well when your part of a dreadful defense CC Brown was 3rd on the tea<span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">m in tackles with only 7starts the yr he was here So u were saying?
</span>

I have no idea how to argue with insanity, sorry. If you want to say that he's overpaid, thats fine. But to outright claim he's bad or even mention him with freakin CC is just that, insane. The guy has done everything this team has asked of him and has done it as well as anyone could have hoped.

Let me see KP play some nickel corner.
Uhhh I mentioned him with Rolle because if u could read you would see the post i was replying to mentioned Rolle leading the team in tackles like that established him being a good player for us Like i said CC brown was 3rd in Tackles with only 7starts when he was here Do u get it now? When u play of a horrible pass defense Safties tend to rack up tackles Rolle has not been that good for us and it woulden't be surprising if we cut him after the yr if we didnt make the playoffs


I don't care why you said it, you said it. And the post you replied to was <u>mine</u>...I'm the one who can't read? D O Y O U G E T IT NOW? ******.

nycsportzfan
12-15-2011, 07:38 AM
Yeah..Our leading tackler for what, the 3rd year now? Is horrible....[:#]
well when your part of a dreadful defense CC Brown was 3rd on the tea<span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">m in tackles with only 7starts the yr he was here So u were saying?
</span>

I have no idea how to argue with insanity, sorry. If you want to say that he's overpaid, thats fine. But to outright claim he's bad or even mention him with freakin CC is just that, insane. The guy has done everything this team has asked of him and has done it as well as anyone could have hoped.

Let me see KP play some nickel corner.
Uhhh I mentioned him with Rolle because if u could read you would see the post i was replying to mentioned Rolle leading the team in tackles like that established him being a good player for us Like i said CC brown was 3rd in Tackles with only 7starts when he was here Do u get it now? When u play of a horrible pass defense Safties tend to rack up tackles Rolle has not been that good for us and it woulden't be surprising if we cut him after the yr if we didnt make the playoffs


I don't care why you said it, you said it. And the post you replied to was <u>mine</u>...I'm the one who can't read? D O Y O U G E T IT NOW? ******.
hahahhah! Dude you seriously have no clue at all Do ya? First yr watching the giants? Probably so Seeing how u don't even know that Rolles only in his 2nd yr with us and didn't lead the Team in tackles last yr in which it was Terrell Thomas who was a CB mind you ! Now why do u think a CB lead our team in Tackles last yr and Rolle is leading this yr and CC Brown was 3rd with only 7 starts the yr he was here??? Hmmm??? Could it be that were just not good against pass for the past 3seasons now???

And my lord! How the freak did u not get why i brought up CC Brown??? Do u get it now? ******! Probably not because any one who thinks Rolle leading the team in tackles is a good thing certainly can't get much!

nycsportzfan
12-15-2011, 07:50 AM
Yeah..Our leading tackler for what, the 3rd year now? Is horrible....[:#]
well when your part of a dreadful defense CC Brown was 3rd on the tea<span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">m in tackles with only 7starts the yr he was here So u were saying?
</span>

I have no idea how to argue with insanity, sorry. If you want to say that he's overpaid, thats fine. But to outright claim he's bad or even mention him with freakin CC is just that, insane. The guy has done everything this team has asked of him and has done it as well as anyone could have hoped.

Let me see KP play some nickel corner.
Oh ya I had to ask What makes you think that we all could of hoped for only this from rolle? There isn't one True knowledgable fan who would honestly tell u that Rolle has done as good as they hoped! Every Giant fan had higher hopes for ROLLE ! Plain and Simple! Even if there Content with his play They still crave more! He was brought here to be a playmaker and make us forget about the days of CC Brown and Aaron Rouse and quite frankly the pass defense is still pretty crappy!

And u might not be able to Ask KP to play Nickel corner but U can certainly ask him to make more plays in the pass game as he's doubled up on Rolle with Pass Defended and hes got more INT"s since Rolles been here! And thats not saying much because KP has only been "decent" over the course of the past 2seasons!

MattMeyerBud
12-15-2011, 08:56 AM
I really don't understand how so few people realize that you can't judge secondary play by the angles they show on tv at all.

You need all-22 film at a bare minimum to even start to evaluate secondary play. You need all-22 film AND the play call to start to accurately evaluate play.

That dez Bryant TD is a perfect example. Was it cover 2 or cover 3? PFF concluded, based on absolutely nothing, that Rolle was at fault, giving him a massive negative cover grade. Yet if the play call was cover 3 like Rolle says, then he was exactly where he was supposed to be.

You just can not say if a player did something wrong or right unless you know what it is he was supposed to do.

netflix's response: YEA BUT IT DOESNT MATTER! I DONT CARE WHAT HIS RESPONSIBILITY WAS! HE JUST PLAIN OL SUCKS!!!! MY WEBSITE PROVES IT!

Kase-1
12-15-2011, 10:57 AM
I really don't understand how so few people realize that you can't judge secondary play by the angles they show on tv at all.

You need all-22 film at a bare minimum to even start to evaluate secondary play. You need all-22 film AND the play call to start to accurately evaluate play.

That dez Bryant TD is a perfect example. Was it cover 2 or cover 3? PFF concluded, based on absolutely nothing, that Rolle was at fault, giving him a massive negative cover grade. Yet if the play call was cover 3 like Rolle says, then he was exactly where he was supposed to be.

You just can not say if a player did something wrong or right unless you know what it is he was supposed to do.Which is why I enjoy going to games and sitting in the 300s mid field, you get to see the plays develop and see who is laying the tight coverage all day. Its tough with the TV angle since all they show is the pocket and then where the ball ends up

Id actually like to see more of the suspended camera that moves across the field behind the QB

Kase-1
12-15-2011, 10:58 AM
I really don't understand how so few people realize that you can't judge secondary play by the angles they show on tv at all.

You need all-22 film at a bare minimum to even start to evaluate secondary play. You need all-22 film AND the play call to start to accurately evaluate play.

That dez Bryant TD is a perfect example. Was it cover 2 or cover 3? PFF concluded, based on absolutely nothing, that Rolle was at fault, giving him a massive negative cover grade. Yet if the play call was cover 3 like Rolle says, then he was exactly where he was supposed to be.

You just can not say if a player did something wrong or right unless you know what it is he was supposed to do.

netflix's response: YEA BUT IT DOESNT MATTER! I DONT CARE WHAT HIS RESPONSIBILITY WAS! HE JUST PLAIN OL SUCKS!!!! MY WEBSITE PROVES IT!
And you can check the stats to back up his points...... If you pay the website

burier
12-15-2011, 02:46 PM
this thread is funny

netplus
12-16-2011, 11:15 AM
"man up and admit you work for the site"

LOL. Work for the site? Wow, your IQ is even lower than I thought. It's $30 to subscribe for stats you can't find anywhere else. I play in a big money fantasy football league so the $30 is a drop in the bucket. Using stats like which DE to start based on the pass blocking grades of the tackle he is going against is a difference maker and has put me in the money.

And for the people who have "I don't buy he is worse than CC Brown" type comments, you don't understand the ratings. A player is assigned a positive, negative, or neutral grade on every play. By being last and 85th, Rolle has had very few positive grades and many negative grades. It doesn't mean he is worse than CC Brown or backup safeties who don't have enough snaps to qualify. It means he has had far more negatively graded plays than any other safety in the NFL! We've all seen it. This data quantifies it.

PFF admits they are limited to the TV film, not the ALL-22 coaches film, but the site has been cited by NFL sources to be 99% accurate with their snap count data and 90% accurate with their grading. Criticize all you want, but those of you not familiar with their grading system might want to understand it before you embarrass yourselves.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 11:18 AM
"man up and admit you work for the site"

LOL. Work for the site? Wow, your IQ is even lower than I thought. It's $30 to subscribe for stats you can't find anywhere else. I play in a big money fantasy football league so the $30 is a drop in the bucket. Using stats like which DE to start based on the pass blocking grades of the tackle he is going against is a difference maker and has put me in the money.

And for the people who have "I don't buy he is worse than CC Brown" type comments, you don't understand the ratings. A player is assigned a positive, negative, or neutral grade on every play. By being last and 85th, Rolle has had very few positive grades and many negative grades. It doesn't mean he is worse than CC Brown or backup safeties who don't have enough snaps to qualify. It means he has had far more negatively graded plays than any other safety in the NFL! We've all seen it. This data quantifies it.

PFF admits they are limited to the TV film, not the ALL-22 coaches film, but the site has been cited by NFL sources to be 99% accurate with their snap count data and 90% accurate with their grading, so criticize all you want, but those of you not familiar with their grading system might want to understand it before you embarrass yourselves.

only person embarrassing themselves is you by saying Rolle is the worst safety in the league..

and the fact that you pay $30 for some god awful stats

netplus
12-16-2011, 11:21 AM
"and the fact that you pay $30 for some god awful stats"

Another ignorant comment by MattMeyerBud

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 11:28 AM
"and the fact that you pay $30 for some god awful stats
"
Another ignorant comment by MattMeyerBud

do yourself the favor -- get urself the $30 back and i'll do it for free for you. Just login to giants.com

Its two guys opinions calculating a formula they made:

"Although we do have a number of other analysts, 90 percent of what you
see on the current site has been completed by either Ben or I. I
initially estimated that I might need 16 people, each analyzing one game
a week but because Ben gets through so much analysis I now know this
estimate was way out."

and im not calling you a liar, but where did u get all that info about the NFL backing this website and all of that? I've skimmed through and found nothing

netplus
12-16-2011, 12:01 PM
"god awful stats"

enter this search in google "pro football focus" -profootballfocus.com

2.3 million webpages reference their stats. They must be awful.

And for the people who ignorantly criticize and are too lazy to understand how they do what they do, this link is for you:

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/03/04/pro-football-focus-how-do-they-put-their-numbers-together/

Redeyejedi
12-16-2011, 12:12 PM
I really don't understand how so few people realize that you can't judge secondary play by the angles they show on tv at all.

You need all-22 film at a bare minimum to even start to evaluate secondary play. You need all-22 film AND the play call to start to accurately evaluate play.

That dez Bryant TD is a perfect example. Was it cover 2 or cover 3? PFF concluded, based on absolutely nothing, that Rolle was at fault, giving him a massive negative cover grade. Yet if the play call was cover 3 like Rolle says, then he was exactly where he was supposed to be.

You just can not say if a player did something wrong or right unless you know what it is he was supposed to do.+1, its hard to see whats going on from TV angles in the secondary.Ive said many times on my Youtube page that I dont like doing CB and safety videos because I feel like im not giving accurate portrayals of players.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 12:14 PM
"god awful stats"

enter this search in google "pro football focus" -profootballfocus.com

2.3 million webpages reference their stats. They must be awful.

And for the people who ignorantly criticize and are too lazy to understand how they do what they do, this link is for you:

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/03/04/pro-football-focus-how-do-they-put-their-numbers-together/

hahaha half way through wtih that article and they've already countered when u said they watch coaches film. They watch it half TV. So in reality they have no function to address responsibilities, as they even say.

They just see something and automatically suggest that it was on the safteys since it was over the LBers. Without knowing what defense was called or understanding the responsibility.of the players

"A QB throws a perfect strike over a linebacker to hit his open slot
receiver on an out. Once more, the wide receiver drops the pass and it
cannons off his chest to a Safety who catches the ball even though he'd
initially made a bad job of the coverage. The QB gets a INT listed
against his name and the free safety gets an undeserved INT against his.
How is tracking this result more accurate?"

just curious what if the LB didn't get deep enough in his coverage? How could they tell? In this paragraph alone they practically say they just give the saftey the blame!

What about zone coverage? Theres areas of the field in a zone that are open, its fact.

What about if a saftey is playing over the top and a corner bites on a fake and the ball goes deep and completed? Thats on the saftey? I think not and theres no way to tell about this stuff. NFL defenses disguise what they do to confuse THE OFFENSE (AKA OTHER PROFESSIONALS). To suggest that somebody watching TV like us could dissect EVERY play is ludacris.

I appreciate what they do and don't knock them for it, but I knock anybody that takes it as gospel.

Quite frankly we run alot of 3 saftey sets - how do they judge that?

Your basically following ONE mans formula for stats. Sorry pally, but just because they HAVE followers and an interesting concept - it doesn't make them right.

"Clearly there are limitations as to what is shown on TV. The biggest
issue is that of not being able to see downfield coverages on untargeted
defenders and we accept this as an inherent error in what we do. That
said, nobody outside the teams has access to this either so should we
stop our "more accurate" analysis on the basis that it's not 100 percent
perfect?"

"<font size="6">We simply record what we see and the outcome of what each player
attempted to do. In truth, a player may have done a good job of blocking
the wrong person but as we have no knowledge of that we assume they
know what they are doing and as such grade the block as a success.</font>
Clearly we accept this introduces a small error but we believe that this
is still a step change in accuracy above what anyone else can achieve.
When we spoke to Bengals OG Evan Mathis earlier in the season he was
quick to confirm that despite this potential error margin, our grading
stacks up well with the detailed feedback he was receiving internally."


game over

burier
12-16-2011, 12:15 PM
This is heating up lol

my sources tell me PFF is by no means the holy grail of football information but perfectly legit.

PS:I dont tthink Rolle is the worst safety in the league. I don't think hes the worst starter in the league. But his PFF grades are quite bad.

-5.3 against the Saints ouch,

burier
12-16-2011, 12:17 PM
"god awful stats"

enter this search in google "pro football focus" -profootballfocus.com

2.3 million webpages reference their stats. They must be awful.

And for the people who ignorantly criticize and are too lazy to understand how they do what they do, this link is for you:

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/03/04/pro-football-focus-how-do-they-put-their-numbers-together/

hahaha half way through wtih that article and they've already countered when u said they watch coaches film. They watch it half TV. So in reality they have no function to address responsibilities, as they even say.

They just see something and automatically suggest that it was on the safteys since it was over the LBers. Without knowing what defense was called or understanding the responsibility.of the players

"A QB throws a perfect strike over a linebacker to hit his open slot
receiver on an out. Once more, the wide receiver drops the pass and it
cannons off his chest to a Safety who catches the ball even though he'd
initially made a bad job of the coverage. The QB gets a INT listed
against his name and the free safety gets an undeserved INT against his.
How is tracking this result more accurate?"

just curious what if the LB didn't get deep enough in his coverage? How could they tell? In this paragraph alone they practically say they just give the saftey the blame!

What about zone coverage? Theres areas of the field in a zone that are open, its fact.

What about if a saftey is playing over the top and a corner bites on a fake and the ball goes deep and completed? Thats on the saftey? I think not and theres no way to tell about this stuff. NFL defenses disguise what they do to confuse THE OFFENSE (AKA OTHER PROFESSIONALS). To suggest that somebody watching TV like us could dissect EVERY play is ludacris.

I appreciate what they do and don't knock them for it, but I knock anybody that takes it as gospel.

Quite frankly we run alot of 3 saftey sets - how do they judge that?

Your basically following ONE mans formula for stats. Sorry pally, but just because they HAVE followers and an interesting concept - it doesn't make them right.

"Clearly there are limitations as to what is shown on TV. The biggest
issue is that of not being able to see downfield coverages on untargeted
defenders and we accept this as an inherent error in what we do. That
said, nobody outside the teams has access to this either so should we
stop our "more accurate" analysis on the basis that it's not 100 percent
perfect?"

"<font size="6">We simply record what we see and the outcome of what each player
attempted to do. In truth, a player may have done a good job of blocking
the wrong person but as we have no knowledge of that we assume they
know what they are doing and as such grade the block as a success.</font>
Clearly we accept this introduces a small error but we believe that this
is still a step change in accuracy above what anyone else can achieve.
When we spoke to Bengals OG Evan Mathis earlier in the season he was
quick to confirm that despite this potential error margin, our grading
stacks up well with the detailed feedback he was receiving internally."


game over



To be fair he admits they don't have access to the ALL-22 coaches film and have to rely on tV tape.

netplus
12-16-2011, 12:18 PM
MattMeyerBud, you did exactly what I thought you would do...skimmed the article and picked out and posted a few things. Why do you read the entire article before posting and embarrassing yourself.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 12:20 PM
MattMeyerBud, you did exactly what I thought you would do...skimmed the article and picked out and posted a few things. Why do you read the entire article before posting and embarrassing yourself.

actually just finished the article

still dont' feel embarrassed. Maybe you can point out why i should be embarrassed.

figured u'd have no answer to my response... the guy says it himself

We simply record what we see and the outcome of what each player
attempted to do. In truth, a player may have done a good job of blocking
the wrong person but as we have no knowledge of that we assume they
know what they are doing and as such grade the block as a success.
Clearly we accept this introduces a small error but we believe that this
is still a step change in accuracy above what anyone else can achieve.



Sorry pal, but thats not a small error. Blocking the wrong guy is a MAJOR error

burier
12-16-2011, 12:24 PM
MattMeyerBud, you did exactly what I thought you would do...skimmed the article and picked out and posted a few things. Why do you read the entire article before posting and embarrassing yourself.

actually just finished the article

still dont' feel embarrassed. Maybe you can point out why i should be embarrassed.

figured u'd have no answer to my response... the guy says it himself

We simply record what we see and the outcome of what each player
attempted to do. In truth, a player may have done a good job of blocking
the wrong person but as we have no knowledge of that we assume they
know what they are doing and as such grade the block as a success.
Clearly we accept this introduces a small error but we believe that this
is still a step change in accuracy above what anyone else can achieve.



Sorry pal, but thats not a small error. Blocking the wrong guy is a MAJOR error


agreed thats a major error but how often does that happen in the NFL?

And is it fair to dismiss the site all together because they're not in the huddle?

netplus
12-16-2011, 12:24 PM
You completely ignored the positive aspects of what they do. This is exactly what I expected, and predictable behavior of someone who can't admit they are wrong.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 12:25 PM
bottom line - if ur judging and grading an offensive lineman and u don't think blocking the wrong guy is a major issue then theres no point in talking. You obviously don't know what the hell you are talking about.

This guy said it he knows that its a big thing, but theres nothing he can do because he doesnt know. Hes not going to say it because hes out there selling his product.

I appreciate it and do actually really love when people try to go behind the numbers. **** I try to do that every week when I rewatch the games and break them down. But for you to come in here like it means something and use it to back your argument is WEAK SAUCE.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 12:26 PM
You completely ignored the positive aspects of what they do. This is exactly what I expected, and predictable behavior of someone who can't admit they are wrong.

how bout you have more than one line responses and stop being so general. Your responses are that of a beaten man

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 12:28 PM
MattMeyerBud, you did exactly what I thought you would do...skimmed the article and picked out and posted a few things. Why do you read the entire article before posting and embarrassing yourself.

actually just finished the article

still dont' feel embarrassed. Maybe you can point out why i should be embarrassed.

figured u'd have no answer to my response... the guy says it himself

We simply record what we see and the outcome of what each player
attempted to do. In truth, a player may have done a good job of blocking
the wrong person but as we have no knowledge of that we assume they
know what they are doing and as such grade the block as a success.
Clearly we accept this introduces a small error but we believe that this
is still a step change in accuracy above what anyone else can achieve.



Sorry pal, but thats not a small error. Blocking the wrong guy is a MAJOR error


agreed thats a major error but how often does that happen in the NFL?

And is it fair to dismiss the site all together because they're not in the huddle?

no I actually appreciate waht they do

just don't come in and use it as an opinion backer. Its using somebody else's opinion and trying to act like its justified because somebody else said it.

T-Murda84
12-16-2011, 12:29 PM
Slip, Rolle was still at fault even if it was a Cover 3 defense. Fewell said their was a miscommunictation on a "special look" defense. I think the Defense originally came out in cover 2, but Boley got Antrel Rolle's attention about the running back in the backfield. Rolle was thinking cover 3...but didnt communicate with Webster or even Grant. Grant was playing deep toward Ross's side (as if it was still Cover 2) and Webster was playing the flats. Boley and Rolle must make sure the rest of the defense is on the same page.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 12:30 PM
Slip, Rolle was still at fault even if it was a Cover 3 defense. Fewell said their was a miscommunictation on a "special look" defense. I think the Defense originally came out in cover 2, but Boley got Antrel Rolle's attention about the running back in the backfield. Rolle was thinking cover 3...but didnt communicate with Webster or even Grant. Grant was playing deep toward Ross's side (as if it was still Cover 2) and Webster was playing the flats. Boley and Rolle must make sure the rest of the defense is on the same page.


and this is exactly why a site like this can never REALLY be effective

netplus
12-16-2011, 12:31 PM
MattMeyerBud, I'm sorry, you know more about football than people who spend 70 hours every week anayzing the games. How could I be so wrong. I am beaten. To the creators of the 2.3 million webpages who find value in Pro Football Focus stats, take down those pages. MattMeyerBud thinks they are awful.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 12:41 PM
Your right, you are sorry

Your missing the point - you can analyze film all you want but theres no way to come to conclusions on broken coverages or miscommunications. I dont need to wathc 70 hours of film to know that basic truth. The plays that they give are completely subjective.

Lets go back to your original post:

"ProFootballFocus rates every play for every player in the league. Out
of 85 safties, Kenny Phillips is rated #10, Rolle is the lowest rated
safety, #85! Deon Grant almost as bad at #65. After this season, I
hope the Giants cut their losses with Rolle and not re-sign Grant. I am
sick and tired of seeing the back of their jerseys as opposing WR's are
scoring touchdowns. They are both terrible in pass coverage.


"

now HOW did u use this information? I'd say in a ranking system.

Now did they include his plays as the nickel corner for his saftey play?

Because for a corner he didn't do that great of a job, but as a saftey stepping up and playing alot of that for us this year hes done A WELL DONE job.

bottom line u came in here with an opinion and u used this website as a way to attack Rolle at saftey. Bottom line is that theres a big missing piece to being able to have these stats effectively - and thats knowing what the play was and what everybody's responsibilities were

Not for nothing, Deon Grant has had a PUTRID season. Whether you want to compare the snaps rolle had at JUST saftey or every snap hes had, hes had a much better year than Grant.

PS - and i did that with just 8 hours of reviewing Giants film... maybe they are hiring? The could use a guy like me

netplus
12-16-2011, 12:46 PM
First you say their stats are awful, then you say you appreciate what they do? MAKE UP YOUR MIND! And I just noticed you have 55,000 posts? Do you have a life?

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 12:52 PM
First you say their stats are awful, then you say you appreciate what they do? MAKE UP YOUR MIND! And I just noticed you have 55,000 posts? Do you have a life?

Are you suggesting that its impossible to appreciate the attempt and effort but understand that its useless data?

don't hate me cuz i can post at work - i still love you

simple question - is Deon Grant having a better year than Antrel Rolle this year?

netplus
12-16-2011, 12:57 PM
Grant and Rolle are both having horrible years, and need to be replaced.

"that its useless data"

If you believe that you are incredibly stupid.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 12:58 PM
Grant and Rolle are both having horrible years, and need to be replaced.

"that its useless data"

If you believe that you are incredibly stupid.

why can't you just answer the question

its very simple, im asking you to compare the two's performances back to back.

If you can't see that its all subjective and useless, then thats fine. Its your money, spend it how you choose

netplus
12-16-2011, 01:05 PM
"Its your money, spend it how you choose"

LOL it's only $30! If you think that is alot of money I feel sorry for you. And based on the money I have already won in my fantasy football league, I would pay alot more for these stats.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 01:07 PM
"Its your money, spend it how you choose"

LOL it's only $30! If you think that is alot of money I feel sorry for you. And based on the money I have already won in my fantasy football league, I would pay alot more.

here i'll only respond with the simple question u refuse to answer:

WHO IS HAVING THE BETTER YEAR, ANRELL ROLLE OR DEON GRANT???

netplus
12-16-2011, 01:14 PM
Since you can't afford $30, I'll give you the stats for Rolle and Grant.

Deon Grant
Snaps: 749
Overall Rating: -5.9
Run Def: 0.9
Pass Rush: -1.3
Pass Coverage: -4.7
Penalty: -0.8
Missed Tackles: 11

Antrel Rolle
Snaps: 894
Overall Rating: -14.9
Run Def: 2.0
Pass Rush: -2.2
Pass Coverage: -12.0
Penalty: -2.7
Missed Tackles: 9

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 01:17 PM
Since you can't afford $30, I'll give you the stats for Rolle and Grant.

Deon Grant
Snaps: 749
Overall Rating: -5.9
Run Def: 0.9
Pass Rush: -1.3
Pass Coverage: -4.7
Penalty: -0.8
Missed Tackles: 11

Antrel Rolle
Snaps: 894
Overall Rating: -14.9
Run Def: 2.0
Pass Rush: -2.2
Pass Coverage: -12.0
Penalty: -2.7
Missed Tackles: 9

LMAO - thank u for proving my point

not that i don't have the 30, i just don't give people money for the hell of it.

You know what the answer is, but it would horribly ruin your OP and this crazed obsession you have wtih a statistical website

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qFiyjwMlP0Y/SdwHjNkEF3I/AAAAAAAAAsM/vABYGeG7SNQ/s400/CheckmateD.jpg

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 01:19 PM
its also cute to know that you don't have a single original thought in your head and to you what a website tells you is the way football is

kids today with your nintendo, pacman video games, and website to tell you what happens on a football field

burier
12-16-2011, 01:19 PM
Since you can't afford $30, I'll give you the stats for Rolle and Grant.

Deon Grant
Snaps: 749
Overall Rating: -5.9
Run Def: 0.9
Pass Rush: -1.3
Pass Coverage: -4.7
Penalty: -0.8
Missed Tackles: 11

Antrel Rolle
Snaps: 894
Overall Rating: -14.9
Run Def: 2.0
Pass Rush: -2.2
Pass Coverage: -12.0
Penalty: -2.7
Missed Tackles: 9

LMAO - thank u for proving my point

not that i don't have the 30, i just don't give people money for the hell of it.

You know what the answer is, but it would horribly ruin your OP and this crazed obsession you have wtih a statistical website

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qFiyjwMlP0Y/SdwHjNkEF3I/AAAAAAAAAsM/vABYGeG7SNQ/s400/CheckmateD.jpg


this actually quite funny.

netplus
12-16-2011, 01:21 PM
Your question of who is having the better year makes no sense when both are having horrible years. Your crazed obsession is arguing with no basis other than your inflated ego.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 01:23 PM
Your question of who is having the better year makes no sense when both are having horrible years. Your crazed obsession is arguing with no basis other than your inflated ego.

wow... great response. Can't compare two players who play the same position?

At least your website has an opinion for itself.

burier
12-16-2011, 01:28 PM
I cant stop laughing.

If Netplus says Deon Grant is having a worse year than Rolle in his next post I'll subscribe to the website.

netplus
12-16-2011, 01:31 PM
I just figured it out. MattMeyerBud is Antrel Rolle! Now everything makes sense.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 01:33 PM
dude - hes NEVER going to say it even though he knows its true

best part about that article interview he posted was that the guy said readers confuse this as a ranking system.... well isn't that exactly what it is? Your formula is to give them a score based off their performance? Isn't that the definition of what a ranking is?

This guy says it too, then I ask him a straight up and simple question and he answers me with the stats from his over priced website

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 01:35 PM
I just figured it out. MattMeyerBud is Antrel Rolle! Now everything makes sense.

HAHAHAHA told you he wouldn't answer

Its amazing, I AM Antrell Rolle. I always knew i'd be a New York Giant so i joined their message boards years before I signed with them.

Did PFF give you my alter alias? Those guys are on top of EVERYTHING

netplus
12-16-2011, 01:36 PM
You don't get it Antrel, no one is having a "better" year. Perhaps you should add the word worse to your vocabulary.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 01:37 PM
You don't get it Antrel, no one is having a "better" year. Perhaps you should add the word worse to your vocabulary.

great comeback, because both phrases don't mean exactly the same thing.

You sure showed me. So whose having the WORSE year?

burier
12-16-2011, 01:40 PM
You don't get it Antrel, no one is having a "better" year. Perhaps you should add the word worse to your vocabulary.

ok now this has become a bad abbott and costello routine.

The moral is that stats only tell part of the story no matter how twist or interpret them.

Or as my good friend would say "stats are for girls"

BigBlue wins
12-16-2011, 01:41 PM
Antrel's best game was against the cardinals this year. I think he left after that

netplus
12-16-2011, 01:43 PM
Have you added anything of value to this thread that is on topic? Your many negative posts regarding the quality of stats from PFF are falling on deaf ears. The topic is Antrel Rolle, not "is Grant or Rolle having the better year".. Go start a thread on that topic and I'll reply.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 01:45 PM
Have you added anything of value to this thread that is on topic? Your many negative posts regarding the quality of stats from PFF are falling on deaf ears. The topic is Antrel Rolle, not "is Grant or Rolle having the better year".. Go start a thread on that topic and I'll reply.

actually your original post did mention the rankings of Rolle and Grant so I think im completely on topic.

Its deaf ears because you know your wrong and so does everyone else. I can keep making you look like a fool all day but it does help when you help too.

"MAYBE U SHOULD ASK WHOSE WORSE NOT WHOSE BETTER"

netplus
12-16-2011, 01:51 PM
Anyone who has 55,000 posts and does nothing but argue is the fool. Try saying something positive once in a while. You might actually like it.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 02:33 PM
Anyone who has 55,000 posts and does nothing but argue is the fool. Try saying something positive once in a while. You might actually like it.

...says the guy who just said Antrell Rolle is the worst safety in the league league. Oh no wait, its not a rankings right

and then proceeded to correct me about saying whose better, by whose worse?

Your such a ray of sun shine and a glass is half full kind of guy. I mean, here I am sticking up for a player on my favorite team (which obviously doesn't make me positive).

Don't be upset i bashed your website. Theres suckers out there that will buy anything

http://www.asontvinfomercials.com/images/prod_main/snuggie.jpg

Redeyejedi
12-16-2011, 02:54 PM
First you say their stats are awful, then you say you appreciate what they do? MAKE UP YOUR MIND! And I just noticed you have 55,000 posts? Do you have a life?

Are you suggesting that its impossible to appreciate the attempt and effort but understand that its useless data?

don't hate me cuz i can post at work - i still love you

simple question - is Deon Grant having a better year than Antrel Rolle this year?
I have some type of internet capable device on me 24-7. I need Email to work. A lot of posters do

TrueBlue@NYC
12-16-2011, 03:07 PM
How could Rolle be rated the worst safety in the league when for most of the season he's been playing nickel back and as a LBer in the box?

I could see why he'd be rated so low given that he's rarely ever playing his intended position.

Spedracer
12-16-2011, 03:13 PM
How could Rolle be rated the worst safety in the league when for most of the season he's been playing nickel back and as a LBer in the box?

I could see why he'd be rated so low given that he's rarely ever playing his intended position.

You're a little late to the party my friend, and consider yourself lucky for that simple truth.

I believe this to be the correct answer to the OP. But the OP(and PFF) is God and therefore, infallible.

Edit: By the way, why can't we have these great threads in the off season?! Its always the same old dregs. Atleast this is entertaining.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 03:18 PM
First you say their stats are awful, then you say you appreciate what they do? MAKE UP YOUR MIND! And I just noticed you have 55,000 posts? Do you have a life?

Are you suggesting that its impossible to appreciate the attempt and effort but understand that its useless data?

don't hate me cuz i can post at work - i still love you

simple question - is Deon Grant having a better year than Antrel Rolle this year?
I have some type of internet capable device on me 24-7. I need Email to work. A lot of posters do

yea i don't post on my phone, that would be frustrating. I just use my work computer.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 03:19 PM
How could Rolle be rated the worst safety in the league when for most of the season he's been playing nickel back and as a LBer in the box?

I could see why he'd be rated so low given that he's rarely ever playing his intended position.

You're a little late to the party my friend, and consider yourself lucky for that simple truth.

I believe this to be the correct answer to the OP. But the OP(and PFF) is God and therefore, infallible.

Edit: By the way, why can't we have these great threads in the off season?! Its always the same old dregs. Atleast this is entertaining.

he just walked into my life yesterday... i hope he comes back

TrueBlue@NYC
12-16-2011, 04:43 PM
How could Rolle be rated the worst safety in the league when for most of the season he's been playing nickel back and as a LBer in the box?

I could see why he'd be rated so low given that he's rarely ever playing his intended position.

You're a little late to the party my friend, and consider yourself lucky for that simple truth.

I believe this to be the correct answer to the OP. But the OP(and PFF) is God and therefore, infallible.

Edit: By the way, why can't we have these great threads in the off season?! Its always the same old dregs. Atleast this is entertaining.

Yeah, I'm way late on this thread, unfortunately I pretty much can only pop on and off this site during the work day (while my boss isn't looking), so I don't get to really ever stick with threads from beginning to end.

Though, I gotta say, reading back through the back and forth b/t the OP and MMB was very entertaining.

Gianthunter
12-16-2011, 04:47 PM
How could Rolle be rated the worst safety in the league when for most of the season he's been playing nickel back and as a LBer in the box? I could see why he'd be rated so low given that he's rarely ever playing his intended position. You're a little late to the party my friend, and consider yourself lucky for that simple truth. I believe this to be the correct answer to the OP. But the OP(and PFF) is God and therefore, infallible. Edit: By the way, why can't we have these great threads in the off season?! Its always the same old dregs. Atleast this is entertaining.

he just walked into my life yesterday... i hope he comes back
Ahhhh serendipity

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 06:56 PM
How could Rolle be rated the worst safety in the league when for most of the season he's been playing nickel back and as a LBer in the box? I could see why he'd be rated so low given that he's rarely ever playing his intended position. You're a little late to the party my friend, and consider yourself lucky for that simple truth. I believe this to be the correct answer to the OP. But the OP(and PFF) is God and therefore, infallible. Edit: By the way, why can't we have these great threads in the off season?! Its always the same old dregs. Atleast this is entertaining.

he just walked into my life yesterday... i hope he comes back
Ahhhh serendipity

i'll be his John Cusack

netplus
12-18-2011, 02:13 PM
3rd and 17, Antrel "at the end of the day" Rolle misses another tackle. They convert 4rth and one and score a TD. On the next drive the FB runs over Rolle for the TD...another missed tackle. Next drive Santana Moss embarrasses Rolle for an easy completion. And it's only the second quarter. I guess PFF stats are meaningless.

giantsfan420
12-18-2011, 02:14 PM
"challenge me" rolle says...im off his ship

qndarius3
12-18-2011, 02:15 PM
he just cannot cover ANYBODY.

very good against the run. Big liability in coverage.

Spizi
12-18-2011, 02:16 PM
3rd and 17, Antrel "at the end of the day" Rolle misses another tackle. They convert 4rth and one and score a TD. On the next drive the FB runs over Rolle for the TD...another missed tackle. I guess PFF stats are meaningless.

finally you admit it

netplus
12-18-2011, 02:19 PM
"finally you admit it "

LOL you have it backwards, 3 awful plays by Rolle in less than 2 quarters validates PFF.

netplus
12-18-2011, 03:35 PM
"Antrel Rolle says the Giants would beat the Redskins 99/100 times"

Can't tackle, can't cover, can't stop saying stupid things.....why is this idiot still on the team?

PIERCEnumber58rules
12-18-2011, 03:38 PM
IDK if he's the worst, but he's definitely a scrub.

MattMeyerBud
12-19-2011, 10:41 AM
3rd and 17, Antrel "at the end of the day" Rolle misses another tackle. They convert 4rth and one and score a TD. On the next drive the FB runs over Rolle for the TD...another missed tackle. I guess PFF stats are meaningless.

finally you admit it

he had an awful day in missed tackles... but really wasn't the culprit in alot of coverages. Just because you see him come in for saftey help u think its on him...

your lack of football knowledge shows wtih the more you comment.

Its funny that you are pretending not to be one of the writers for the website and are trying to hard to sell everybody on it.

barran21
12-19-2011, 10:52 AM
Rolle is **** and i can't wait until he's cut....he's a big mouth F N loser.

netplus
12-19-2011, 11:11 AM
3rd and 17, Antrel "at the end of the day" Rolle misses another tackle. They convert 4rth and one and score a TD. On the next drive the FB runs over Rolle for the TD...another missed tackle. I guess PFF stats are meaningless.

finally you admit it

he had an awful day in missed tackles... but really wasn't the culprit in alot of coverages. Just because you see him come in for saftey help u think its on him...

your lack of football knowledge shows wtih the more you comment.

Its funny that you are pretending not to be one of the writers for the website and are trying to hard to sell everybody on it.*




MattMeyerBud the 55,000 post idiot says something stupid again. He continually defends Rolle. Amazing. And he is stupid enough to think I work for PFF.

barran21
12-19-2011, 11:20 AM
3rd and 17, Antrel "at the end of the day" Rolle misses another tackle. They convert 4rth and one and score a TD. On the next drive the FB runs over Rolle for the TD...another missed tackle. I guess PFF stats are meaningless.

finally you admit it

he had an awful day in missed tackles... but really wasn't the culprit in alot of coverages. Just because you see him come in for saftey help u think its on him...

your lack of football knowledge shows wtih the more you comment.

Its funny that you are pretending not to be one of the writers for the website and are trying to hard to sell everybody on it.




MattMeyerBud the 55,000 post idiot says something stupid again. He continually defends Rolle. Amazing. And he is stupid enough to think I work for PFF.

I want to see how he will defend him when Reese cuts him...

netplus
12-19-2011, 01:20 PM
I had to repost this from another thread...

<img src=http://sinfl.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/antrel-rolle.jpg>

<img src=http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPw_3pd6-4mGzELlvSBWcMh6ruJ6t1r8sZXfYk8hqdKV706XQWXIX3zabT>

The wingnut is hollow inside

Kase-1
12-19-2011, 02:22 PM
3rd and 17, Antrel "at the end of the day" Rolle misses another tackle. They convert 4rth and one and score a TD. On the next drive the FB runs over Rolle for the TD...another missed tackle. I guess PFF stats are meaningless.

finally you admit it

he had an awful day in missed tackles... but really wasn't the culprit in alot of coverages. Just because you see him come in for saftey help u think its on him...

your lack of football knowledge shows wtih the more you comment.

Its funny that you are pretending not to be one of the writers for the website and are trying to hard to sell everybody on it.




MattMeyerBud the 55,000 post idiot says something stupid again. He continually defends Rolle. Amazing. And he is stupid enough to think I work for PFF.

I want to see how he will defend him when Reese cuts him...
I wanna see what you guys have to say when he stays and has a great season

MattMeyerBud
12-19-2011, 03:33 PM
3rd and 17, Antrel "at the end of the day" Rolle misses another tackle. They convert 4rth and one and score a TD. On the next drive the FB runs over Rolle for the TD...another missed tackle. I guess PFF stats are meaningless.

finally you admit it

he had an awful day in missed tackles... but really wasn't the culprit in alot of coverages. Just because you see him come in for saftey help u think its on him...

your lack of football knowledge shows wtih the more you comment.

Its funny that you are pretending not to be one of the writers for the website and are trying to hard to sell everybody on it.




MattMeyerBud the 55,000 post idiot says something stupid again. He continually defends Rolle. Amazing. And he is stupid enough to think I work for PFF.

I want to see how he will defend him when Reese cuts him...


and i can't wait to see how you react when he DOESNT cut him...

my money is where my mouth is, is yours?

MattMeyerBud
12-19-2011, 03:36 PM
3rd and 17, Antrel "at the end of the day" Rolle misses another tackle. They convert 4rth and one and score a TD. On the next drive the FB runs over Rolle for the TD...another missed tackle. I guess PFF stats are meaningless.

finally you admit it

he had an awful day in missed tackles... but really wasn't the culprit in alot of coverages. Just because you see him come in for saftey help u think its on him...

your lack of football knowledge shows wtih the more you comment.

Its funny that you are pretending not to be one of the writers for the website and are trying to hard to sell everybody on it.




MattMeyerBud the 55,000 post idiot says something stupid again. He continually defends Rolle. Amazing. And he is stupid enough to think I work for PFF.

you will refer to me as sir

haha if u dont work for PFF then your man crush on the writers is disturbing...

I bet you think that TD Dezz had against us two weeks ago was on him don't you?

hey whose having the better season:

"WELL LET ME SEE, PFF HAS +3 POINTS FOR HIS EARS AND -2 FOR HIS TACKLES"

shaaat uuuupppp

i am not sticking up for him, just further proving that you have no clue what your talking about unless somebody's scoring system tells you so

nycsportzfan
12-19-2011, 03:38 PM
3rd and 17, Antrel "at the end of the day" Rolle misses another tackle. They convert 4rth and one and score a TD. On the next drive the FB runs over Rolle for the TD...another missed tackle. I guess PFF stats are meaningless.

finally you admit it

he had an awful day in missed tackles... but really wasn't the culprit in alot of coverages. Just because you see him come in for saftey help u think its on him...

your lack of football knowledge shows wtih the more you comment.

Its funny that you are pretending not to be one of the writers for the website and are trying to hard to sell everybody on it.




MattMeyerBud the 55,000 post idiot says something stupid again. He continually defends Rolle. Amazing. And he is stupid enough to think I work for PFF.

I want to see how he will defend him when Reese cuts him...


and i can't wait to see how you react when he DOESNT cut him...

my money is where my mouth is, is yours?
I was hereing rumours of them cutting rolle a few weeks before yesterdays debacle(mind u it wasen't anything crazy substantial) but i believe hes toast as well I don't think theres any chance at all he returns He has been way to invisible unless its being part of a big play against or missed tackle I would say 90pct cut 10pct stays I guess making the playoffs could change that a bit

netplus
12-19-2011, 03:42 PM
MattMeyerBud: "just further proving that you have no clue what your talking about unless somebody's scoring system tells you so
"

That's your personality. Pick out a few things from peoples posts and argue with them, and not adding anything of value to the thread. Result: 55,000 posts of nonsense. Change your nickname to MrNegative.

MattMeyerBud
12-19-2011, 03:44 PM
"just further proving that you have no clue what your talking about unless somebody's scoring system tells you so
"

That's your personality. Pick out a few things from peoples posts and argue with them, and not adding anything of value to the thread. Result: 55,000 posts of nonsense. Change your nickname to MrNegative.

no thats what you gave me...

what was your answer to my question about who was better this year Rolle or Grant?

It was YOU who posted the PFF stats right?

alllrighty then. Its the ONLY arguments you've made son

heavyhitter
12-19-2011, 03:45 PM
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z46/kcochran777/popcorn-gazelle.gif

MattMeyerBud
12-19-2011, 03:45 PM
3rd and 17, Antrel "at the end of the day" Rolle misses another tackle. They convert 4rth and one and score a TD. On the next drive the FB runs over Rolle for the TD...another missed tackle. I guess PFF stats are meaningless.

finally you admit it

he had an awful day in missed tackles... but really wasn't the culprit in alot of coverages. Just because you see him come in for saftey help u think its on him...

your lack of football knowledge shows wtih the more you comment.

Its funny that you are pretending not to be one of the writers for the website and are trying to hard to sell everybody on it.




MattMeyerBud the 55,000 post idiot says something stupid again. He continually defends Rolle. Amazing. And he is stupid enough to think I work for PFF.

I want to see how he will defend him when Reese cuts him...


and i can't wait to see how you react when he DOESNT cut him...

my money is where my mouth is, is yours?
I was hereing rumours of them cutting rolle a few weeks before yesterdays debacle(mind u it wasen't anything crazy substantial) but i believe hes toast as well I don't think theres any chance at all he returns He has been way to invisible unless its being part of a big play against or missed tackle I would say 90pct cut 10pct stays I guess making the playoffs could change that a bit


i'll cover you all - no shot hes cut in a year where hes playing nickel in most passing situations.

netplus
12-19-2011, 03:53 PM
55,000 post idiot:: "i'll cover you all - no shot hes cut in a year where hes playing nickel in most passing situations.
"

He sucked last year too you dumba**. Shows your lack of football knowledge. And we all know you have no money to bet.

netplus
12-19-2011, 04:28 PM
Nice tackle Antrel!

<img src=http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/dc-sports-bog/Images/135958742.jpg?uuid=FnYKQCnREeGwMD_zmc8m8w>

GMenFan13
12-19-2011, 04:41 PM
to hear that every other team in the league has two or even three better safeties than rolle is ridiculous. Although I don't think rolle is very good, he has been the man to cover guys such as the Patriots' TEs.

Those articles and statistics were probably written by someone who got their lunch money stolen by Rolle.

netplus
12-19-2011, 04:48 PM
3rd and 17, Rolle misses tackle on Stallworth, Redskins score a TD a few plays later! BTW, Stallworth was a free agent scrub signed by the Redskins 4 weeks ago.

<img src=http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/12/19/sports/subSECONDARY/subSECONDARY-articleLarge.jpg>

MattMeyerBud
12-19-2011, 05:02 PM
55,000 post idiot:: "i'll cover you all - no shot hes cut in a year where hes playing nickel in most passing situations.
"

He sucked last year too you dumba**. Shows your lack of football knowledge. And we all know you have no money to bet.

actually he was probably our D MVP for the firt 3/4 of the season he trailed off but that still doesn't change 3 things:

1 - you have no opinion for yourself, you say what a website tells you to say
2 - hes not getting cut
3 - hes not the worst safety in the league, especially when he has been forced out of the saftey spot to the nickel

again... you can call me king

MattMeyerBud
12-19-2011, 05:03 PM
Nice tackle Antrel!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/dc-sports-bog/Images/135958742.jpg?uuid=FnYKQCnREeGwMD_zmc8m8w

awesome pic

now that completely proves your websites points...

dillyyo1972
12-19-2011, 05:05 PM
MattMeyerBud, I'm sorry, you know more about football than people who spend 70 hours every week anayzing the games. How could I be so wrong. I am beaten. To the creators of the 2.3 million webpages who find value in Pro Football Focus stats, take down those pages. MattMeyerBud thinks they are awful.

My guess is that you either A. never played a lick of football in your life or B. never played a lick of football above the Pop Warner level. The fact that you are supposedly a Giants fan and should realize that he's been playing out of position all year, yet defer to such drivel as "that doesn't matter" is just plain ridiculous. The fact that all you do is support your subjective argument with nothing but stats tells me you are clueless and really do not warrant a thread of 12+ pages.

Mods, lock this shat down.

netplus
12-19-2011, 05:06 PM
"actually he was probably our D MVP for the firt 3/4 of the season he trailed off "
WRONG, you have no clue.

"you have no opinion for yourself, you say what a website tells you to say"
WRONG. I watch the games and see the awful play by Rolle every week, just like most other posters in this thread .

netplus
12-19-2011, 05:09 PM
MattMeyerBud, I'm sorry, you know more about football than people who spend 70 hours every week anayzing the games. How could I be so wrong. I am beaten. To the creators of the 2.3 million webpages who find value in Pro Football Focus stats, take down those pages. MattMeyerBud thinks they are awful.

My guess is that you either A. never played a lick of football in your life or B. never played a lick of football above the Pop Warner level.* The fact that you are supposedly a Giants fan and should realize that he's been playing out of position all year, yet defer to such drivel as "that doesn't matter" is just plain ridiculous.* The fact that all you do is support your subjective argument with nothing but stats tells me you are clueless and really do not warrant a thread of 12+ pages.*

Mods, lock this shat down.


Yea those two pics I just posted of Rolle missing tackles are "nothing but stats". Tell us Dilly, what did Rolle do in yesterday's game that was good? Just one positive play please!

MattMeyerBud
12-19-2011, 05:11 PM
"actually he was probably our D MVP for the firt 3/4 of the season he trailed off "
WRONG, you have no clue.

"you have no opinion for yourself, you say what a website tells you to say"
WRONG. I watch the games and see the awful play by Rolle every week, just like most other posters in this thread .

haha alright fun boy... i guess u just ignore all the people telling you that your moronic. Evne those who don't like Rolle.

I am going to have to lock this down cuz theres been numerous complaints....

good luck with your website - i wish it much success