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View Full Version : The Hakeem Nicks vs Victor Cruz debate



Marvelousmik
09-05-2012, 03:52 PM
I know we play the Cowboys in a few hours, but i just had to get this off of my chest before the season. Ive been thinking about the cruz vs nicks debate that was talked about on here, and i am actually surprised at how many people picked Nicks. When i think of cruz i immediately say to myself, if there is a dominant player at their position on this team, that you know no matter what players the other team may have, your guy will still bring his A game, its Cruz and JPP. I can't recall them having 1 bad game last year. Every game they seem to make a huge play, and it doesnt look like there is anyone who can stop them 1on1. Nicks can also be similar. There are times when it seems like he cant be stopped, and he finds a way to show up in big games for us. But he can be contained by good players. I feel like Cruz and Jpp cant be stopped, which makes them dominant.

When i look at all the important intangables that makes a reciever good, i dont see how nicks beats out cruz.

1. Route running - Cruz
2. Speed - Cruz
3. Quickness - Cruz
4. Catching - Nicks/Cruz. Both will amaze you with a crazy circus catch, but then come back on the next play and drop the easy one
5. Physicality - Nicks
6. Blocking - Nicks
7. Big play ability - Cruz
(I am not saying Nicks is not good in any of these categories, I'm just saying I believe Cruz is better.)

I know some of you try to make the case that Nicks goes up against better corners, But last year Cruz made a lot of good corners look bad. He abused Carlos rodgers, Namdi, and pretty much dominated any corner who tried to cover him in the slot 1 on 1 last year while breaking a couple records while he was at it. I rarely ever make predictions based on Preseason plays, but when we played the jets it was obvious Antonio Cromartie couldnt cover him. Not to mention he had Revis beat down the sidelines on the first play of the game.

Nicks is the most positive and humble player ive ever seen on the giants and he is also a great receiver. He is one of the most underrated Wide outs in the game to go along with roddy white and steve smith(panthers).. I am happy to have both and i hope we keep these 2 guys for years to come. I just think if you were to look at the tape from a neutral standpoint, It should be obvious that Cruz is the better Receiver.

Rudyy
09-05-2012, 03:53 PM
Ok.
Cruz was outstanding last year.
Nicks has been outstanding since he was drafted.
Let's wait until we crown Cruz with "the best receiver" and what not.

Dwinsballgames
09-05-2012, 04:01 PM
I'm content with the fact that we have two receivers of such high quality that we can't agree which one is better. I feel no need to take it any further than that.

Moke
09-05-2012, 04:01 PM
Thank god the season is starting tonight.

fansince69
09-05-2012, 04:03 PM
I would just like to say.....Who cares?....does it really matter which one is better ? all I care about is they are BOTH on the Giants........

This argument/discussion is about as productive as arguing if the sun will come up tomorrow

SuperNYGiants
09-05-2012, 04:05 PM
I think Cruz still has to prove himself that he's not a one year wonder, whereas Nicks is a bona fide #1 WR, and apparently the FO thinks so too otherwise they would not hesitate to give Cruz a new contract.

IamGiantsfan
09-05-2012, 04:08 PM
I would just like to say.....Who cares?....does it really matter which one is better ? all I care about is they are BOTH on the Giants........

This argument/discussion is about as productive as arguing if the sun will come up tomorrow
Most topics in this board are stupid, might as well make use of all of them :P

Fharcyde
09-05-2012, 04:16 PM
Victor Cruz is very good at getting yards after the catch. I think he benefited from Nicks receiving more attention a lot of the time. That's not to say he won't be as productive this year, but it will be interesting to see where defenses focus this season with the offensive additions we've made.

nhpgiantsfan
09-05-2012, 04:16 PM
Nicks does it every year. Nicks had the primary coverage last year. Let's see what Cruz can do now that everyone knows him.

I dont think he runs better routes than Nicks.

And by the way, Nicks ran a 4.4 and Cruz ran a 4.5. So you are wrong with the speed thing.

Marvelousmik
09-05-2012, 04:26 PM
Ok.
Cruz was outstanding last year.
Nicks has been outstanding since he was drafted.
Let's wait until we crown Cruz with "the best receiver" and what not.

I just have to make one more point that i didnt make earlier.

I am 100% confident that Cruz is not just a 1 year wonder, you know why? I never look at stats.

here is an example. When we had bradshaw, jacobs and ward during our 2007 superbowl run, a lot of people were raving about how we had 3 great runningbacks and that how ward was a hidden gem. If you looked at stats, more specifically, yards per carry, yes, ward would have been great. But if you were to look at the game tape, what did ward really do that would lead you to believe he was a great running back? he ran begind a great offensive line.

Here is a different example. You know how i knew adrian peterson would be great after his first year? I didn't look at his stats. I looked at the tape. if you looked at all his intangibles and how he played, how could you have questioned if he would be great or not?

Dont focus so much on if they had a good season. Focus on what they did on the field and how they did it. That will give you a better understanding of which players are great and which ones arent.

Ill go and call out another guy who if you look at the tape you know he will be great if he stays healthy. DeMarco Murray

Moke
09-05-2012, 04:29 PM
It'd be hilarious if Murray actually sucks.

Rudyy
09-05-2012, 04:30 PM
I just have to make one more point that i didnt make earlier.

I am 100% confident that Cruz is not just a 1 year wonder, you know why? I never look at stats.

here is an example. When we had bradshaw, jacobs and ward during our 2007 superbowl run, a lot of people were raving about how we had 3 great runningbacks and that how ward was a hidden gem. If you looked at stats, more specifically, yards per carry, yes, ward would have been great. But if you were to look at the game tape, what did ward really do that would lead you to believe he was a great running back? he ran begind a great offensive line.

Here is a different example. You know how i knew adrian peterson would be great after his first year? I didn't look at his stats. I looked at the tape. if you looked at all his intangibles and how he played, how could you have questioned if he would be great or not?

Dont focus so much on if they had a good season. Focus on what they did on the field and how they did it. That will give you a better understanding of which players are great and which ones arent.

Ill go and call out another guy who if you look at the tape you know he will be great if he stays healthy. DeMarco MurrayI totally agree with you. Cruz is an excellent receiver, and I HIGHLY doubt he's going to have this huge drop off. I just don't want to compare him to someone who has been consistently great his entire career. I don't really think that's fair. If he plays like he played last year consistently, then I think you can make a strong case.

Marvelousmik
09-05-2012, 04:31 PM
And by the way, Nicks ran a 4.4 and Cruz ran a 4.5. So you are wrong with the speed thing.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=66015&draftyear=2009&genpos=wr

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=19548&draftyear=2010&genpos=WR

No. You are the one who is wrong. But even if it did say nicks was faster, i mean, come on now. You already know.

Rudyy
09-05-2012, 04:32 PM
It'd be hilarious if Murray actually sucks.Cowboy fans would have a stroke.

Marvelousmik
09-05-2012, 04:32 PM
I totally agree with you. Cruz is an excellent receiver, and I HIGHLY doubt he's going to have this huge drop off. I just don't want to compare him to someone who has been consistently great his entire career. I don't really think that's fair. If he plays like he played last year consistently, then I think you can make a strong case.

I understand

giantsfan420
09-05-2012, 04:39 PM
I know we play the Cowboys in a few hours, but i just had to get this off of my chest before the season. Ive been thinking about the cruz vs nicks debate that was talked about on here, and i am actually surprised at how many people picked Nicks. When i think of cruz i immediately say to myself, if there is a dominant player at their position on this team, that you know no matter what players the other team may have, your guy will still bring his A game, its Cruz and JPP. I can't recall them having 1 bad game last year. Every game they seem to make a huge play, and it doesnt look like there is anyone who can stop them 1on1. Nicks can also be similar. There are times when it seems like he cant be stopped, and he finds a way to show up in big games for us. But he can be contained by good players. I feel like Cruz and Jpp cant be stopped, which makes them dominant.

When i look at all the important intangables that makes a reciever good, i dont see how nicks beats out cruz.

1. Route running - Cruz
2. Speed - Cruz
3. Quickness - Cruz
4. Catching - Nicks/Cruz. Both will amaze you with a crazy circus catch, but then come back on the next play and drop the easy one
5. Physicality - Nicks
6. Blocking - Nicks
7. Big play ability - Cruz
(I am not saying Nicks is not good in any of these categories, I'm just saying I believe Cruz is better.)

I know some of you try to make the case that Nicks goes up against better corners, But last year Cruz made a lot of good corners look bad. He abused Carlos rodgers, Namdi, and pretty much dominated any corner who tried to cover him in the slot 1 on 1 last year while breaking a couple records while he was at it. I rarely ever make predictions based on Preseason plays, but when we played the jets it was obvious Antonio Cromartie couldnt cover him. Not to mention he had Revis beat down the sidelines on the first play of the game.

Nicks is the most positive and humble player ive ever seen on the giants and he is also a great receiver. He is one of the most underrated Wide outs in the game to go along with roddy white and steve smith(panthers).. I am happy to have both and i hope we keep these 2 guys for years to come. I just think if you were to look at the tape from a neutral standpoint, It should be obvious that Cruz is the better Receiver.
i think u underrate a few of nicks qualities bc he makes it look so damn easy doing it.
route running, i dont know how u could rate one over the other. cruz works primarily out of the slot, whereas nicks has the perimeter which means the sideline becomes an additional defender to an extent. Nicks runs excellent routes and gets seperation, he's smooth and runs em all, underneath and deep. I'd say its a draw there.
Speed is another thing that can be tricky. Nicks is one of the fastest wrs on the field, but bc he had a so so 40, ppl tend to underrate his speed. Nicks can pull away from defenders just as well as Cruz. Here its a draw again.

Big play ability, its a draw again imo. Cruz had like 6 tds of 40 yds or more which is absolutely crazy. a few of em came on underneath stuff that broke. But Nicks has just a big play ability and talent as cruz. that atlanta game, Nicks took that underneath and blew by like 6 falcons. Same thing vs GB. Nicks is also a better vertical threat imho slightly tho.

It really is a luxury we have two #1's on the team. Case can easily be made for both. I can understand and respect if someone chooses one way or the other. Im stoked we have Bennett and Barden/Randle to exploit coverages keyed in on cruz/nicks

JSpin
09-05-2012, 04:40 PM
While Cruz is very good by himself, he is dominant because of Eli Manning and the presence of Hakeem Nicks on the other side of the field. Look what happend to Steve Smith (our last slot wr). He's a nobody now.

YATittle1962
09-05-2012, 04:41 PM
1. Route running - Cruz
2. Speed - Cruz
3. Quickness - Cruz
4. Catching - Nicks/Cruz. Both will amaze you with a crazy circus catch, but then come back on the next play and drop the easy one
5. Physicality - Nicks
6. Blocking - Nicks
7. Big play ability - Cruz


every one of these is strictly your opinion.....and an opinion that I don't find accurate what so ever

The Notorious B.I.G BLUE
09-05-2012, 04:51 PM
I know we play the Cowboys in a few hours, but i just had to get this off of my chest before the season. Ive been thinking about the cruz vs nicks debate that was talked about on here, and i am actually surprised at how many people picked Nicks. When i think of cruz i immediately say to myself, if there is a dominant player at their position on this team, that you know no matter what players the other team may have, your guy will still bring his A game, its Cruz and JPP. I can't recall them having 1 bad game last year. Every game they seem to make a huge play, and it doesnt look like there is anyone who can stop them 1on1. Nicks can also be similar. There are times when it seems like he cant be stopped, and he finds a way to show up in big games for us. But he can be contained by good players. I feel like Cruz and Jpp cant be stopped, which makes them dominant.

When i look at all the important intangables that makes a reciever good, i dont see how nicks beats out cruz.

1. Route running - Cruz
2. Speed - Cruz
3. Quickness - Cruz
4. Catching - Nicks/Cruz. Both will amaze you with a crazy circus catch, but then come back on the next play and drop the easy one
5. Physicality - Nicks
6. Blocking - Nicks
7. Big play ability - Cruz
(I am not saying Nicks is not good in any of these categories, I'm just saying I believe Cruz is better.)

I know some of you try to make the case that Nicks goes up against better corners, But last year Cruz made a lot of good corners look bad. He abused Carlos rodgers, Namdi, and pretty much dominated any corner who tried to cover him in the slot 1 on 1 last year while breaking a couple records while he was at it. I rarely ever make predictions based on Preseason plays, but when we played the jets it was obvious Antonio Cromartie couldnt cover him. Not to mention he had Revis beat down the sidelines on the first play of the game.

Nicks is the most positive and humble player ive ever seen on the giants and he is also a great receiver. He is one of the most underrated Wide outs in the game to go along with roddy white and steve smith(panthers).. I am happy to have both and i hope we keep these 2 guys for years to come. I just think if you were to look at the tape from a neutral standpoint, It should be obvious that Cruz is the better Receiver.

I disagree with...

4. Catching: I give this 2 Nicks. Cruz it's a far behind, I've just seen Cruz take his eyes of the ball looking to make a move more often than Nicks.

7. Big Play Ability: I give this 2 Nicks aswell. Cruz is great in the slot and has the ability to make big plays, I just think Nicks is a beast! Look at the playoff run, Huge catch and run against ATL, Huge catch and run (with a broken tackle) against GB and The Hail Mary. **** even in the SB didn't he quietly have 100 yrds dispite being constantly shadowed by the D?

I love both these guys. The Both excel at what they do best, I dont even care which 1 is better. IM glad they are both playing great.

Jahh
09-05-2012, 04:53 PM
Nicks playoff numbers last year were unreal.

Marvelousmik
09-05-2012, 04:53 PM
i think u underrate a few of nicks qualities bc he makes it look so damn easy doing it.


I see what you're saying but im too much of a die hard fan to actually underrate any of our players. I re watch every game, and then go back to look at even the small details "like how did he block this guy, or did anyone contest his route, or did he catch it with his hands" I look at everything. Sometimes i wish i had the actually game tape with all the camera angles so i could see everything. But i watch what i can. I also dont trust 40 times. Iike i said man i just look at what i see on the field. Nicks is definitely smooth in his routes and he does have deceptive speed. Remember the packer game last year when he took a simple slant to the house? I know he can run. But Cruz is blazing speed. Ive seen him fake people out and made them look silly during many of his routes. Hes not just dangerous after the catch. He is also dangerous before the catch.

Moke
09-05-2012, 04:56 PM
I see what you're saying but im too much of a die hard fan to actually underrate any of our players. I re watch every game, and then go back to look at even the small details "like how did he block this guy, or did anyone contest his route, or did he catch it with his hands" I look at everything. Sometimes i wish i had the actually game tape with all the camera angles so i could see everything. But i watch what i can. I also dont trust 40 times. Iike i said man i just look at what i see on the field. Nicks is definitely smooth in his routes and he does have deceptive speed. Remember the packer game last year when he took a simple slant to the house? I know he can run. But Cruz is blazing speed. Ive seen him fake people out and made them look silly during many of his routes. Hes not just dangerous after the catch. He is also dangerous before the catch.


Most of what you're saying is very general though. After 1 year, it's hard to make the distinction. If Cruz can show us the same stuff as last year or even a little bit less, we'll know that he has more talent than Nicks for sure.

I think after 1 year, over-evaluation or none, is too little to go off and say Cruz is better than Nicks.

I do agree though that Cruz is very dangerous after the catch as well, but we definitely need more time.

Marvelousmik
09-05-2012, 04:56 PM
every one of these is strictly your opinion.....and an opinion that I don't find accurate what so ever

They are definitely my opinions. But, do you truly disagree with cruz not being faster, or quicker?

Nonetheless i cant wait for the game tonight and for the season to start. Just you wait =)

FIFTY6G-MAN
09-05-2012, 04:59 PM
I'm content with the fact that we have two receivers of such high quality that we can't agree which one is better. I feel no need to take it any further than that.Agree 100%, thats quite a problem to have isnt it?

GiantWarfare
09-05-2012, 05:02 PM
I'm content with the fact that we have two receivers of such high quality that we can't agree which one is better. I feel no need to take it any further than that.

QFT

couldn't have said it any better

fizzlesticks
09-05-2012, 05:04 PM
Cruz seems to have a slight fumbling problem, he was saved a bunch last year by penalties and plays being blown dead.

SuperNYGiants
09-05-2012, 05:06 PM
I am 100% confident that Cruz is not just a 1 year wonder, you know why? I never look at stats.


I don't think Cruz is a one year wonder either, but that doesn't mean he is consistent, one season is just not enough to truly evaluate what Cruz really is. One thing is certain, he has talent, but then talent alone only can get you so far in NFL. If Cruz is as dedicated and determined like last season, he'll be fine.

As for stats, it just goes hand in hand with how they play, maybe you only like flashy players so you think Cruz is better than Nicks, but what good is that if the player is not productive? Hence why stats also matter.

It's fine that you think Cruz is better than Nicks, but I would say that it's a premature opinion.

nhpgiantsfan
09-06-2012, 12:45 AM
I know we play the Cowboys in a few hours, but i just had to get this off of my chest before the season. Ive been thinking about the cruz vs nicks debate that was talked about on here, and i am actually surprised at how many people picked Nicks. When i think of cruz i immediately say to myself, if there is a dominant player at their position on this team, that you know no matter what players the other team may have, your guy will still bring his A game, its Cruz and JPP. I can't recall them having 1 bad game last year. Every game they seem to make a huge play, and it doesnt look like there is anyone who can stop them 1on1. Nicks can also be similar. There are times when it seems like he cant be stopped, and he finds a way to show up in big games for us. But he can be contained by good players. I feel like Cruz and Jpp cant be stopped, which makes them dominant.

When i look at all the important intangables that makes a reciever good, i dont see how nicks beats out cruz.

1. Route running - Cruz
2. Speed - Cruz
3. Quickness - Cruz
4. Catching - Nicks/Cruz. Both will amaze you with a crazy circus catch, but then come back on the next play and drop the easy one
5. Physicality - Nicks
6. Blocking - Nicks
7. Big play ability - Cruz
(I am not saying Nicks is not good in any of these categories, I'm just saying I believe Cruz is better.)

I know some of you try to make the case that Nicks goes up against better corners, But last year Cruz made a lot of good corners look bad. He abused Carlos rodgers, Namdi, and pretty much dominated any corner who tried to cover him in the slot 1 on 1 last year while breaking a couple records while he was at it. I rarely ever make predictions based on Preseason plays, but when we played the jets it was obvious Antonio Cromartie couldnt cover him. Not to mention he had Revis beat down the sidelines on the first play of the game.

Nicks is the most positive and humble player ive ever seen on the giants and he is also a great receiver. He is one of the most underrated Wide outs in the game to go along with roddy white and steve smith(panthers).. I am happy to have both and i hope we keep these 2 guys for years to come. I just think if you were to look at the tape from a neutral standpoint, It should be obvious that Cruz is the better Receiver.

He sure played like a number one receiver tonight didn't he!