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View Full Version : Is it right to sit a rookie RB because he fumbled?



FlyingTruck
09-06-2012, 12:15 PM
My friend was giving me updates on the game because I was at work. He texted me saying Wilson had fumbled. And I texted back, "now watch TC bench him for the rest of the game." And I was right.

Rookies will be rookies, and mistakes will happen. But imo, benching a rookie RB because he fumbled does more harm than good. We're never going to develop our running backs if they are on the bench. TC did the same thing to Scott last year.

I understand we have to win games, and fumbling the ball doesn't help at all. But how else will he learn? If Bradshaw fumbles he isn't benched right? Then why does he do it to rookies?

MattMeyerBud
09-06-2012, 12:16 PM
My friend was giving me updates on the game because I was at work. He texted me saying Wilson had fumbled. And I texted back, "now watch TC bench him for the rest of the game." And I was right.

Rookies will be rookies, and mistakes will happen. But imo, benching a rookie RB because he fumbled does more harm than good. We're never going to develop our running backs if they are on the bench. TC did the same thing to Scott last year.

I understand we have to win games, and fumbling the ball doesn't help at all. But how else will he learn? If Bradshaw fumbles he isn't benched right? Then why does he do it to rookies?

this isn't a classroom. It isn't about teaching at that point, its about doing whats best for the team. Wilson was crying for christ sakes (i like the passion) but still, you don't throw that guy back in the game. hes not mentally ready

Eli2Shockey4aTD
09-06-2012, 12:17 PM
I think you should let him calm down and get his head back into the game. Cowboys were flying all over the field in the second half so no time to deal with rookies would be my guess.

BigBluePoint
09-06-2012, 12:19 PM
No, it's not right, nor is a fair punishment or goodway to learn. dYou have to "play to win", not "not to lose". Wilson is too big a potential weapon. He will not learn standing on the sidelines, nor will his confidence be restored. Play the rook and let him grow. Our offense needs his speed and dynamics!

SuperNYGiants
09-06-2012, 12:19 PM
Because when rookies make a mistake, they'll try to do too much and make even more mistakes, something to the effect of Kyle Williams.

The game also dictated the benching of Wilson as Giants were playing catch up and running game was pretty much out the window.

Expect Wilson to get a heavy dose in the next game. Move on.

Morehead State
09-06-2012, 12:20 PM
this isn't a classroom. It isn't about teaching at that point, its about doing whats best for the team. Wilson was crying for christ sakes (i like the passion) but still, you don't throw that guy back in the game. hes not mentally ready
This isn't a classrom. It isn't about teaching at that point.....you gotta put him in the game instead of teaching him a lesson, because we need to have our best players on the field. Wilson is a big part of the offense and we needed him out there.

bklyn1028
09-06-2012, 12:21 PM
IF the kid cried, so what, I think it's a great thing....it shows emotion. Coughlin will bottle that kids emotion and show him how to empty it on the field. That kid will be a star for us. You watch....Bradshaw and Wilson will be national names before our bye week.

TroyArcher
09-06-2012, 12:23 PM
The outcome of the game is more imporant than hurting a players feelings. He is a big boy now, hold on to the god damn ball. He wasn't even hit hard, he was holding the ball way too loose. Maybe next time he will think twice and really hold the ball tight.

MattMeyerBud
09-06-2012, 12:25 PM
IF the kid cried, so what, I think it's a great thing....it shows emotion. Coughlin will bottle that kids emotion and show him how to empty it on the field. That kid will be a star for us. You watch....Bradshaw and Wilson will be national names before our bye week.

i said i like the passion, but if u think ti shows he was mentally strong or ready i would say it showed the complete opposite.

TheShouldersOf
09-06-2012, 12:26 PM
i don't agree with benching a player for fumbling, any player any team,


Stubbornness from any Coach is a pathway to defeat

GameTime
09-06-2012, 12:27 PM
its just TC method. You may disagree or not. Either way the coaches know this kid id a talent. One of his goals is not to fumble so there you go.
He will see plenty of carries......no worries there.

BurnerNYG
09-06-2012, 12:28 PM
I think they should've put him back out there. That kid is a playmaker... Adrien Peterson fumbles but he keeps playing. On another note... The Vikings haven't won a Superbowl neither. I still think they should've played but if the benching worked for Cruz last year, maybe it''ll work for Wilson.

repeatchamps
09-06-2012, 12:28 PM
i said i like the passion, but if u think ti shows he was mentally strong or ready i would say it showed the complete opposite.

I'm with you as always. Let him learn on the practice field not in a game where there was zero running room anyways against an arch division rival who was treating a week 1 game like their Super Bowl.

Mod_C
09-06-2012, 12:28 PM
My friend was giving me updates on the game because I was at work. He texted me saying Wilson had fumbled. And I texted back, "now watch TC bench him for the rest of the game." And I was right.

Rookies will be rookies, and mistakes will happen. But imo, benching a rookie RB because he fumbled does more harm than good. We're never going to develop our running backs if they are on the bench. TC did the same thing to Scott last year.

I understand we have to win games, and fumbling the ball doesn't help at all. But how else will he learn? If Bradshaw fumbles he isn't benched right? Then why does he do it to rookies?

You are wrong about Bradshaw. He was benched and for that period of time Jacobs carried the load. TC is not picking on players. Fumbles, interceptions, are negative game changers. The "dog house", while it may seem harsh to some, is relatively short lived and is part of the player development philosophy in this organization. Players KNOW what happens when they put the ball on the ground and we lose possession.

MattMeyerBud
09-06-2012, 12:29 PM
I think they should've put him back out there. That kid is a playmaker... Adrien Peterson fumbles but he keeps playing. On another note... The Vikings haven't won a Superbowl neither. I still think they should've played but if the benching worked for Cruz last year, maybe it''ll work for Wilson.

oh god burner, don't start again

is this where we que Reese for not trading for Kolb?

U really just compared Wilson to the best back in the game when healthy. Stop it.

AP also never came off the field and emotional wreck after he fumbles

ryan12
09-06-2012, 12:29 PM
This isn't a classrom. It isn't about teaching at that point.....you gotta put him in the game instead of teaching him a lesson, because we need to have our best players on the field. Wilson is a big part of the offense and we needed him out there.

agreed plus besides that one run bradshaw looked like **** he is SLOW

Mod_C
09-06-2012, 12:29 PM
i don't agree with benching a player for fumbling, any player any team,


Stubbornness from any Coach is a pathway to defeat

This about a coach who hasn't had a losing season here.

MattMeyerBud
09-06-2012, 12:30 PM
agreed plus besides that one run bradshaw looked like **** he is SLOW

bradshaw was a warrior for us last night

BParcells777
09-06-2012, 12:30 PM
It was a lesson well learned if it sticks

Giants5699
09-06-2012, 12:31 PM
Coughlin looked at that emotion Wilson showed after the fumble and said "good, I can teach this kid."

MattMeyerBud
09-06-2012, 12:32 PM
Coughlin looked at that emotion Wilson showed after the fumble and said "good, I can teach this kid."

absolutely... again im not killing Wilson for the emotion

but im also not going to kill Coughlin for not feeling like it was a good move to put him back in the game

dezzzR
09-06-2012, 12:33 PM
i said i like the passion, but if u think ti shows he was mentally strong or ready i would say it showed the complete opposite.Well after the fumble he took 2 returns back to the 30. Thats a big deal for the Giants special teams imo. Shows he can play with a chip on his shoulder. I think some players(certainly not all) play better in that state of mind because theyre out to prove something.

BigBlue1971
09-06-2012, 12:34 PM
My friend was giving me updates on the game because I was at work. He texted me saying Wilson had fumbled. And I texted back, "now watch TC bench him for the rest of the game." And I was right.

Rookies will be rookies, and mistakes will happen. But imo, benching a rookie RB because he fumbled does more harm than good. We're never going to develop our running backs if they are on the bench. TC did the same thing to Scott last year.

I understand we have to win games, and fumbling the ball doesn't help at all. But how else will he learn? If Bradshaw fumbles he isn't benched right? Then why does he do it to rookies?

im sure Bradshaw has been benched for fumbling and if he has an issued with fumbling now he'll be benched.

its TCs way of showing Wilson that fumbling wont be tolerated and TC is the head coach and i go with him!

ryan12
09-06-2012, 12:34 PM
bradshaw was a warrior for us last night

your kidding me right matt?

DandyDon
09-06-2012, 12:34 PM
I think you have to trust the coaches on a call that that. Nobody on these boards knows these players better than they do, so I think you have to accept their judgement.

BlueSanta
09-06-2012, 12:34 PM
If our offensive line doesnt start runblocking better, it wont matter if we bench Wilson or play him.

yoeddy
09-06-2012, 12:35 PM
Well after the fumble he took 2 returns back to the 30. Thats a big deal for the Giants special teams imo. Shows he can play with a chip on his shoulder. I think some players(certainly not all) play better in that state of mind because theyre out to prove something.

But sometimes it's exactly that "they're out to prove something" that causes them to make more mistakes...

ryan12
09-06-2012, 12:35 PM
its tc team and he can do whatever the **** he wants. who are we to make a judgement call like that... wilson will get his chance again tc will work on his fumbles and wilson will be fine.... rookie 1st game ect

BurnerNYG
09-06-2012, 12:36 PM
oh god burner, don't start again

is this where we que Reese for not trading for Kolb?

U really just compared Wilson to the best back in the game when healthy. Stop it.

AP also never came off the field and emotional wreck after he fumblesI didn't watch the 1st half yet. Who said anything about trading for Kolb? I'm talking about a rb. I'm not questioning the benching or comparing him to Peterson (even though we don't know what we really got in Wilson yet) I'm just saying that maybe he would've reacted a little differently... the kid obviously wanted to play and was mad at himself for screwing up.

GameTime
09-06-2012, 12:38 PM
Its TC's way. We all know that so why the questions????
Geeze some of you guys just dont get it.....

FlyingTruck
09-06-2012, 12:39 PM
Just to clarify I'm not bashing TC. I know that's the way he operates and like I said, I expected it. I'm just saying that I feel that it stunts the growth of some players IMO. And with players like Cruz and Bradshaw it obviously helped. I think Wilson we'll be fine. I hope he gets another shot against Tampa.

repeatchamps
09-06-2012, 12:40 PM
the kid obviously wanted to play and was mad at himself for screwing up.

Good that is step 1 in the learning process. Make him want to redeem himself but it doesn't get allowed to happen right away. Makes the player hungrier. Let him stew in it. I think from what I've heard about this kid, letting him stew in it will not depress him but rather it will motivate him even more.

Giants5699
09-06-2012, 12:41 PM
Good that is step 1 in the learning process. Make him want to redeem himself but it doesn't get allowed to happen right away. Makes the player hungrier. Let him stew in it. I think from what I've heard about this kid, letting him stew in it will not depress him but rather it will motivate him even more.

Better he learn the hard way in Game 1 than in the playoffs.

repeatchamps
09-06-2012, 12:42 PM
Better he learn the hard way in Game 1 than in the playoffs.

Exaclty correct. At the end of the day no RB will do squat if this O-line doesn't block for the run better than it did last night. I focused in on the O-line all night at the stadium last night, they were abysmal.

Morehead State
09-06-2012, 12:52 PM
The bottom line for me is that I get sitting a kid for a series or a few series, but to bench him for the entire game is hurting the team.

ryan12
09-06-2012, 12:54 PM
The bottom line for me is that I get sitting a kid for a series or a few series, but to bench him for the entire game is hurting the team.

i can agree with this statement

GameTime
09-06-2012, 12:57 PM
The bottom line for me is that I get sitting a kid for a series or a few series, but to bench him for the entire game is hurting the team.
maybe the coaches dont see him as as any better then Bradshaw at the moment so they felt they werent hurting their chances of winning with Wilson out of the rotation. Or like when the a player breaks a rule and gets benched by the coach not matter what. Its a dscipline thing with TC and he follows through. I think Wilson will be a major factor in the future of the Giants. maybe TC just helped that future.???/.....

BlueReign
09-06-2012, 12:58 PM
I think it's the right move. It shows Wilson that turnovers are a BIG DEAL in the NFL, and unlike at VA Tech, there are other options on the Giants that can hold on to the ball. It makes Wilson value ball security that much more.

Mod_C
09-06-2012, 01:04 PM
The bottom line for me is that I get sitting a kid for a series or a few series, but to bench him for the entire game is hurting the team.

He wasn't benched for the entire game, he was on the field after the fumble, just not carrying the ball

repeatchamps
09-06-2012, 01:05 PM
The bottom line for me is that I get sitting a kid for a series or a few series, but to bench him for the entire game is hurting the team.

Depends on the nature of the game being played. There was no running room at all. How will he contribute if he has no holes to run through and make positive plays? How will that help his confidence. People want to make it all about Coughlin teaching Wilson a lesson. I give coach more credit than that. I believe Tom felt that until some adjustments were made to blocking schemes or just flat out improvement to the o-line's efforts, Wilson or any RB for that matter in that situation would not be able to make the necessary impact in the run game so that a guy like Wilson could redeem himself in that situation and would be hurt more than helped by putting him back in.

The opposing view to that is, put Wilson back in at RB and let him prove the coach wrong and no matter how bad the blocking, by putting the kid back in he'd make an impact that would further his growth and redeem himself. Sorry, I can't agree with that, the O-line was hideous and there was little to no chance of that happening, not worth the risk of having that backfire and damaging the kid's mental state even more due to lack of positive contribution or even worse have another fumble.

bigblue58
09-06-2012, 01:25 PM
My friend was giving me updates on the game because I was at work. He texted me saying Wilson had fumbled. And I texted back, "now watch TC bench him for the rest of the game." And I was right.

Rookies will be rookies, and mistakes will happen. But imo, benching a rookie RB because he fumbled does more harm than good. We're never going to develop our running backs if they are on the bench. TC did the same thing to Scott last year.

I understand we have to win games, and fumbling the ball doesn't help at all. But how else will he learn? If Bradshaw fumbles he isn't benched right? Then why does he do it to rookies?

The guy was a crying basket case and you wanted him thrown back into the fire? Are you insane dude? When you fall off a horse you get back on.....unless you're crying hysterically, then maybe its not a good idea!

nycisgreat
09-06-2012, 01:50 PM
My friend was giving me updates on the game because I was at work. He texted me saying Wilson had fumbled. And I texted back, "now watch TC bench him for the rest of the game." And I was right.

Rookies will be rookies, and mistakes will happen. But imo, benching a rookie RB because he fumbled does more harm than good. We're never going to develop our running backs if they are on the bench. TC did the same thing to Scott last year.

I understand we have to win games, and fumbling the ball doesn't help at all. But how else will he learn? If Bradshaw fumbles he isn't benched right? Then why does he do it to rookies?

Yes, it is right. He did the same thing to all the running backs since Coughlin been here. This team traditionally runs really well except last season.

yoeddy
09-06-2012, 01:57 PM
The bottom line for me is that I get sitting a kid for a series or a few series, but to bench him for the entire game is hurting the team.

Is he that much better than Bradshaw?

Morehead State
09-06-2012, 02:09 PM
He wasn't benched for the entire game, he was on the field after the fumble, just not carrying the ball
I never saw him except as a KO returner.

Dwinsballgames
09-06-2012, 02:10 PM
Right or wrong that's the way TC rolls

RoanokeFan
09-06-2012, 02:14 PM
I never saw him except as a KO returner.

That's on the field :p

Morehead State
09-06-2012, 02:16 PM
That's on the field :p
Well......yes.
Leave it to you to bring clarity to this discussion.

Morehead State
09-06-2012, 02:20 PM
Right or wrong that's the way TC rolls
OK let me say this.
Clearly TC has earned our unyielding support. He's a masterful coach and proved it last year once and for all to nay say-ers like me. So I will never say "we need a new coach". (at least not for a very long time)

But I do reserve the right to criticize one of his decisions. He's not perfect like most of you guys.
So I will say that while I agree that its how he "rolls", I think it was still an overreaction and not the best thing for the team.

SuperNYGiants
09-06-2012, 02:24 PM
I say it's really a non-issue, David Wilson hasn't earned anything in my eyes, if he fumbled the ball, Coughlin has every right to put him in the dog house.

RoanokeFan
09-06-2012, 02:26 PM
Well......yes.
Leave it to you to bring clarity to this discussion.


LOL We're all disappointed in yesterday's results. Still, I thought Rivers, Coe, Hixon, and Bennett performed well. As for the heat the secondary is taking, and just to keep it in perspective, we were playing the # 4 and # 5 cornerbacks by game's end. They are the # 4 and # 5 cornerbacks for a reason and that doesn't make them bad players, just not ready for prime time. We need Prince to get back on the field, playing like the # 1 draft pick he was. If Coe is out for any extended period of time with the hamstring injury, Hosley will be in there continuing his baptism by fire.

RoanokeFan
09-06-2012, 02:28 PM
OK let me say this.
Clearly TC has earned our unyielding support. He's a masterful coach and proved it last year once and for all to nay say-ers like me. So I will never say "we need a new coach". (at least not for a very long time)

But I do reserve the right to criticize one of his decisions. He's not perfect like most of you guys.
So I will say that while I agree that its how he "rolls", I think it was still an overreaction and not the best thing for the team.

We should all feel as though we can criticize a player or coach for specific issues, plays, decisions, etc. without throwing the baby out with the bath water.

davepc
09-06-2012, 02:31 PM
I'm a big fan of getting right back on the horse, but whatever, Coughlins style is what it is.

yoeddy
09-06-2012, 02:31 PM
OK let me say this.
Clearly TC has earned our unyielding support. He's a masterful coach and proved it last year once and for all to nay say-ers like me. So I will never say "we need a new coach". (at least not for a very long time)

But I do reserve the right to criticize one of his decisions. He's not perfect like most of you guys.
So I will say that while I agree that its how he "rolls", I think it was still an overreaction and not the best thing for the team.

I agree that I'm perfect, and I agree with TC's approach.... ;-)

Morehead State
09-06-2012, 02:33 PM
I say it's really a non-issue, David Wilson hasn't earned anything in my eyes, if he fumbled the ball, Coughlin has every right to put him in the dog house.
I don't think what "right" TC has is the issue. He's the HC and has the "right" to bench anyone he wants. The issue is what is in the interest of the team, or what helps us win that game.
My view is that despite TC's human rights, the team would be better served by Wilson being used in the role as prescribed by the gameplan. I promise it wasn't 2 carries and take a seat.

PennState1
09-06-2012, 02:33 PM
Good that is step 1 in the learning process. Make him want to redeem himself but it doesn't get allowed to happen right away. Makes the player hungrier. Let him stew in it. I think from what I've heard about this kid, letting him stew in it will not depress him but rather it will motivate him even more.

In college, guys like Wilson are treated as Gods. They can easily become spoiled (not saying Wilson is) and everything comes easy to them. They enter the draft, get paid huge amounts of $'s and it's too easy to develop an entitlement mindset. Many players feel that they "deserve to start/play" because they were great in college but this is the NFL (Not For Long if you don't perform to earn the millions you get paid). It's about "team" not self and it's about the per suit of perfection. It's about professionalism and personal responsibility. It's about respect - for the game, your team ownership, coaches, teammates, the fans and of self.

One of the big reasons we have 2 rings is TC's ability to teach, bring guys like Strahan around to his way of thinking (selfless, toughminded, focused players who are all about sacrifice and TEAM). He taught one of the worst fumblers (Tiki) to fix the problem and his PROVEN methods will do the same for Wilson. TC knows he is responsible for preparing Wilson for the next 8 to 10+ years of his career, not for one game or even one season.

Tom C has done amazing things for the team we all love. We owe it to him to trust his methods because we know they work.

Morehead State
09-06-2012, 02:34 PM
I agree that I'm perfect, and I agree with TC's approach.... ;-)
Yes but perfectly what?........

Morehead State
09-06-2012, 02:37 PM
In college, guys like Wilson are treated as Gods. They can easily become spoiled (not saying Wilson is) and everything comes easy to them. They enter the draft, get paid huge amounts of $'s and it's too easy to develop an entitlement mindset. Many players feel that they "deserve to start/play" because they were great in college but this is the NFL (Not For Long if you don't perform to earn the millions you get paid). It's about "team" not self and it's about the per suit of perfection. It's about professionalism and personal responsibility. It's about respect - for the game, your team ownership, coaches, teammates, the fans and of self.

One of the big reasons we have 2 rings is TC's ability to teach, bring guys like Strahan around to his way of thinking (selfless, toughminded, focused players who are all about sacrifice and TEAM). He taught one of the worst fumblers (Tiki) to fix the problem and his PROVEN methods will do the same for Wilson. TC knows he is responsible for preparing Wilson for the next 8 to 10+ years of his career, not for one game or even one season.

Tom C has done amazing things for the team we all love. We owe it to him to trust his methods because we know they work.
From everything I've heard about David Wilson, those issues don't apply.
The kid is about as solid a citizen as anyone in the league.

craigjr007
09-06-2012, 02:40 PM
i dont agree...i think you gotta ride him...stick the guy back in there

i remember in our first superbowl run against pats....ryan grant fumbled twice in beginning of game against sehawks,and didnt get benched...green bay stuck with grant and the guy ended up with 200 rushing yards and like 2 tds..

repeatchamps
09-06-2012, 02:46 PM
i dont agree...i think you gotta ride him...stick the guy back in there

i remember in our first superbowl run against pats....ryan grant fumbled twice in beginning of game against sehawks,and didnt get benched...green bay stuck with grant and the guy ended up with 200 rushing yards and like 2 tds..

I refer you to this reply I made to Morehead earlier to address your point which can be valid in some scenarios but not yesterday's in my opinion:

http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?16848-Is-it-right-to-sit-a-rookie-RB-because-he-fumbled&p=475319&viewfull=1#post475319

SuperNYGiants
09-06-2012, 02:47 PM
I don't think what "right" TC has is the issue. He's the HC and has the "right" to bench anyone he wants. The issue is what is in the interest of the team, or what helps us win that game.
My view is that despite TC's human rights, the team would be better served by Wilson being used in the role as prescribed by the gameplan. I promise it wasn't 2 carries and take a seat.
What makes you think Wilson would've made a difference when the o-line wasn't run blocking the whole game? What if Wilson tried to make extra moves with no run block help and made another fumble? We then potentially have a rookie RB with mental scars that would last a whole season. I think Coughlin did the right thing to sit him down, it's only 1st game of the season.

stormblue
09-06-2012, 02:50 PM
He wasn't benched for the entire game, he was on the field after the fumble, just not carrying the ball

yup....he was catching and returning kicks.......which is pretty good anti-fumble practice if you ask me.
TC put him right back on the horse....just not in the backfield.

PennState1
09-06-2012, 02:59 PM
From everything I've heard about David Wilson, those issues don't apply.
The kid is about as solid a citizen as anyone in the league.

I totally agree with you and was not, in any way, indicating that Wilson is a problem or has ever been one. In fact if you re-read my post you will see that I specifically pointed this out. If he were, the Giants would have not drafted him. Having said that, almost every player in the NFL has a big ego or develops one with some early success and time in the limelight. NYC is an easy place to develop and ego and to forget what got you there in the first place.

Personally, I believe this was a contributing factor in the loss last night...the dreaded SuperBowl "hangover." I love Cruz (picked him as my #1 reciever in my fantasy draft) but I believe he spent too much time this summer as a celebrity. I don't know this for sure but PERHAPS he got caught up in his own celebrity a little and was not ready for last nights game. I think thats what TC meant when he said they ate a big slice of "humble pie." You could hear the same theme in the post-game interviews..."that was last year and it doesn't matter this year" meaning that being champs doesn't mean anything this season. If anything, it just makes it harder.

One great year can make you a clebrity today but you can be a dog tomorrow. One great year does not make a career. Just look at David Tyree. The truly great ones prepare every game and every offseason like it was their first when they had to prove themselves just to make the team. THis is the mindset TC will attempt to instill in Wilson so he can realize his true potential.

sharick88
09-06-2012, 03:04 PM
My friend was giving me updates on the game because I was at work. He texted me saying Wilson had fumbled. And I texted back, "now watch TC bench him for the rest of the game." And I was right.

Rookies will be rookies, and mistakes will happen. But imo, benching a rookie RB because he fumbled does more harm than good. We're never going to develop our running backs if they are on the bench. TC did the same thing to Scott last year.

I understand we have to win games, and fumbling the ball doesn't help at all. But how else will he learn? If Bradshaw fumbles he isn't benched right? Then why does he do it to rookies?

To answer your question........HELL NO! Just like life in general, confidence breeds success. For example, the ugliest man in the bar can pull a hot woman every once in a while simply because he is confident. To me, he should have been out there on the next drive that we had. Why not? It's not like the person ahead of him on the depth chart is that much or actually even better. Instead, he ended up collecting dust at the end of the bench. Rookies never get any significant PT on this team unless we have no choice at all. Even Hakeem Nicks didn't get to play his rookie season until it was abundantly clear that our receiving corps was pathetic at the time.

PennState1
09-06-2012, 03:17 PM
To answer your question........HELL NO! Just like life in general, confidence breeds success. For example, the ugliest man in the bar can pull a hot woman every once in a while simply because he is confident. To me, he should have been out there on the next drive that we had. Why not? It's not like the person ahead of him on the depth chart is that much or actually even better. Instead, he ended up collecting dust at the end of the bench. Rookies never get any significant PT on this team unless we have no choice at all. Even Hakeem Nicks didn't get to play his rookie season until it was abundantly clear that our receiving corps was pathetic at the time.

Perhaps there is a good reason that rookies don't get significant PT!! Mistakes and turnovers cost you games in the NFL. One key turnover in an important moment against a really good team and you are toast. Can't you just trust and support TC? He won 2 rings for us. JEEZ!

G-MENBK
09-06-2012, 03:20 PM
Better in the 1st game of the season than game #10. If he does fumble again, I hope he just misses a quarter and not the whole game.

SuperNYGiants
09-06-2012, 03:22 PM
To answer your question........HELL NO! Just like life in general, confidence breeds success. For example, the ugliest man in the bar can pull a hot woman every once in a while simply because he is confident. To me, he should have been out there on the next drive that we had. Why not? It's not like the person ahead of him on the depth chart is that much or actually even better. Instead, he ended up collecting dust at the end of the bench. Rookies never get any significant PT on this team unless we have no choice at all. Even Hakeem Nicks didn't get to play his rookie season until it was abundantly clear that our receiving corps was pathetic at the time.
You are putting too much stock in this confidence thing, what good is it if Wilson is still confident yet he fumbles the ball every 40 carries? Apparently that's he's fumble ratio in college, I think this issue is more than just a confidence thing, but a technical issue that needs fixing.

PennState1
09-06-2012, 03:25 PM
TC fixed Tiki. He can fix Wilson.

BigBlue1971
09-06-2012, 03:25 PM
Better in the 1st game of the season than game #10. If he does fumble again, I hope he just misses a quarter and not the whole game.

if he does fumble again hopefully its further in the season than the next 2-3 games. if not you may not see this kid at all!

TC does not take kindly to fumblers!

BParcells777
09-06-2012, 03:25 PM
Do you think if Wilson does not fumble last night we would have won the game??......He was not the problem. Cruz, the O-line, DB's and D-line were the problems

G-MENBK
09-06-2012, 03:30 PM
I don't think we would have won the game, but we certainly were in a position to put more points on the board. Like in any sport, rookies usually get a shorter leash. It happens. Learn from the mistake and come back with a vengeance.

Morehead State
09-06-2012, 03:44 PM
What makes you think Wilson would've made a difference when the o-line wasn't run blocking the whole game? What if Wilson tried to make extra moves with no run block help and made another fumble? We then potentially have a rookie RB with mental scars that would last a whole season. I think Coughlin did the right thing to sit him down, it's only 1st game of the season.
I have no idea if he would have helped win the game or not. But I am supremely confident that he was in the gameplan throughout the game. He wasn't there to carry it twice and then be relegated to KO returns.
Point is they benched him (in the offense) for the entire game. Given that we did have a game plan, by definition that hurts the team.
Thata all I'm saying.

sharick88
09-06-2012, 04:50 PM
Perhaps there is a good reason that rookies don't get significant PT!! Mistakes and turnovers cost you games in the NFL. One key turnover in an important moment against a really good team and you are toast. Can't you just trust and support TC? He won 2 rings for us. JEEZ!

Don't get it twisted. I am a huge coughlin fan. He isn't a flawless coach though. Just because I disagree with his management of rookies doesn't mean that I think low of the guy. Wasn't the score in the game 0-0 when that fumble occured? LOL

PennState1
09-06-2012, 04:54 PM
It was but a mistake like that can change the dreaded "Mo" in a game right? Anyway, TC's goal is to help Wilson reach his true potential and Giants trust him to do that so its good enough for me. Hard to argue with a future hall of fame coach.

Martyr
09-06-2012, 04:55 PM
I think it was the right move, Wilson was too emotional, he needs to comeback next week with a level head.

sharick88
09-06-2012, 04:58 PM
You are putting too much stock in this confidence thing, what good is it if Wilson is still confident yet he fumbles the ball every 40 carries? Apparently that's he's fumble ratio in college, I think this issue is more than just a confidence thing, but a technical issue that needs fixing.

I don't think that I am. Another good analogy is in sales. If a person is trying to sell you something and doesn't seem confident in what they are selling you, are you going to buy from them or their competitor? You ever see Boiler Room? Act as if. Anyways, back to football. His fumble ratio was actually once every 48 carries. He had plenty of carries this preseason and did not fumble once. Of course he will get better at it with more training. The only way to see if it is actually working is to see him out there more. Benching a guy after one fumble in a 0-0 game in my opinion was wrong. I do understand what you are saying though. He just needs to stay confident while getting his technique squared away.

sharick88
09-06-2012, 05:02 PM
It was but a mistake like that can change the dreaded "Mo" in a game right? Anyway, TC's goal is to help Wilson reach his true potential and Giants trust him to do that so its good enough for me. Hard to argue with a future hall of fame coach.
It is. You're right. No one is perfect though. TC is my guy, but he certainly can't walk on water or turn water into wine.

PennState1
09-06-2012, 05:06 PM
Can't argue with that :0)

giantsforce
09-06-2012, 05:14 PM
It is. You're right. No one is perfect though. TC is my guy, but he certainly can't walk on water or turn water into wine.he cannot even step in when Killdrive calls futile plays twice in a row! He sure cannot turn an idiot OC into a semi idiot OC. Funny how things worked when Eli started changing the play at the line of scrimmage and going into no hurry up offense.

keyofgmen
09-06-2012, 05:15 PM
He returned KO after that FGS...There is no worse danger of a fumble on a KO in terms of field position. TC knows what he is doing. Punish the kid, but then let him know he does trust him.

RoanokeFan
09-06-2012, 05:20 PM
He returned KO after that FGS...There is no worse danger of a fumble on a KO in terms of field position. TC knows what he is doing. Punish the kid, but then let him know he does trust him.

This is exactly right

brad
09-06-2012, 06:08 PM
My friend was giving me updates on the game because I was at work. He texted me saying Wilson had fumbled. And I texted back, "now watch TC bench him for the rest of the game." And I was right.

Rookies will be rookies, and mistakes will happen. But imo, benching a rookie RB because he fumbled does more harm than good. We're never going to develop our running backs if they are on the bench. TC did the same thing to Scott last year.

I understand we have to win games, and fumbling the ball doesn't help at all. But how else will he learn? If Bradshaw fumbles he isn't benched right? Then why does he do it to rookies?

In my opinion, absolutely! This is a guy known for his inability to hang onto the football, and he needs to know that fumbling in the NFL can be the difference between a win and a loss. I don't think that means he won't get another chance, but benching him will make him value the next opportunity more and hopefully make him concentrate and holding the ball correctly so he doesn't fumble it again. Yes, fumbles happen, but he dropped 1 of every 48 touches in college. That is not acceptable in the NFL. I still believe he is going to be a very good, if not great, RB, but he has to overcome this issue first.

NYKiller
09-06-2012, 06:10 PM
It depends on the RB talent level. An average back, maybe, but not David Wilson talent. Let's not forget, Bradshaw and Tiki had fumbling problems before they became good RBs. Wilson is the best giants running back, but nfl lack experience.

I respect Coughlin, but I really didn't like how the giants bench David Wilson after the fumble. Me personally as a coach would have pulled David Wilson to the side, give him a confidence boost speech, and let him know I still have faith in him and send him out there because he is the most talented giants running back. However, I would give Bradshaw the majority of the carries until I am confident that David Wilson has fixed his fumbling problem for the most part. However, Coughlin left him feeling down and didn't give him a early chance for redemption. Who knows how he would have performed after that just me make up for what he had done. Now he will be thinking about that fumble for an entire week. He might even shed a few tears during the week lol.

brad
09-06-2012, 06:12 PM
It depends on the RB talent level. An average back, maybe, but not David Wilson talent. Let's not forget, Bradshaw and Tiki had fumbling problems before they became good RBs. Wilson is the best giants running back, but nfl lack experience.

I respect Coughlin, but I really didn't like how the giants bench David Wilson after the fumble. Me personally as a coach would have pulled David Wilson to the side, give him a confidence boost speech, and let him know I still have faith in him and send him out there because he is the most talented giants running back. However, I would give Bradshaw the majority of the carries until I am confident that David Wilson has fixed his fumbling problem for the most part. However, Coughlin left him feeling down and didn't give him a early chance for redemption. Who knows how he would have performed after that just me make up for what he had done. Now he will be thinking about that fumble for an entire week. He might even shed a few tears during the week lol.

Let's not forget, it was Coughlin that "cured" Tiki and Bradshaw of their fumbling problems... so he must be doing something right

NYKiller
09-06-2012, 06:21 PM
Let's not forget, it was Coughlin that "cured" Tiki and Bradshaw of their fumbling problems... so he must be doing something right

I don't think it was Coughlin alone that deserve all the credit. He does have a coaching staff. However, I am pretty sure David Wilson learned how to carry a football in RB class 101 in college. With that said, he still has a problem and I think it's more mental than physical. More sloppiness than ball holding technique. We see it a lot with WRs, and RBs can make the same mistakes. It's all about ball security when trying to make big runs.

brad
09-06-2012, 06:27 PM
I don't think it was Coughlin alone that deserve all the credit. He does have a coaching staff. However, I am pretty sure David Wilson learned how to carry a football in RB class 101 in college. With that said, he still has a problem and I think it's more mental than physical. More sloppiness than ball holding technique. We see it a lot with WRs, and RBs can make the same mistakes. It's all about ball security when trying to make big runs.

The point was that Coughlin treated them (more Bradshaw than Tiki) the same way and his methods worked. It is a documented fact that Coughlin, along with other coaching staff, worked with Tiki to change the way he held the ball when running. Wilson may have learned to carry the ball in RB 101 class, but he obviously didn't learn it very well. He fumbled 1 of every 48 touches in his senior year... last night wasn't an anomaly. I get what your saying, but this isn't pee-wee football where your main goal is to make sure everybody get his fair share of time on the field and feels good about themselves when the game is over. In the NFL, there are winners and losers, and the objective is to win. The players who give the team the best shot at winning will be the ones on the field, and with Wilson fumbling, he isn't one of those guys. I have no doubt that he will be, when he fixes that problem though.

NYKiller
09-06-2012, 06:38 PM
The point was that Coughlin treated them (more Bradshaw than Tiki) the same way and his methods worked. It is a documented fact that Coughlin, along with other coaching staff, worked with Tiki to change the way he held the ball when running. Wilson may have learned to carry the ball in RB 101 class, but he obviously didn't learn it very well. He fumbled 1 of every 48 touches in his senior year... last night wasn't an anomaly. I get what your saying, but this isn't pee-wee football where your main goal is to make sure everybody get his fair share of time on the field and feels good about themselves when the game is over. In the NFL, there are winners and losers, and the objective is to win. The players who give the team the best shot at winning will be the ones on the field, and with Wilson fumbling, he isn't one of those guys. I have no doubt that he will be, when he fixes that problem though.

I understand what you are trying to say, but I still disagree with Coughlin decision to bench Wilson especially with the Giants O-line problem. And Coughlin as a couch should have been addressing Wilson fumbling problem in practice well before the season start. He shouldn't have to put more focus on Wilson fumble problem this week. Anyway, I know we will disagree, but I'm still stinking to my belief.

brad
09-06-2012, 06:44 PM
I understand what you are trying to say, but I still disagree with Coughlin decision to bench Wilson especially with the Giants O-line problem. And Coughlin as a couch should have been addressing Wilson fumbling problem in practice well before the season start. He shouldn't have to put more focus on Wilson fumble problem this week. Anyway, I know we will disagree, but I'm still stinking to my belief.

I am not one to pick on grammar, but you called Coughlin a "couch" and said your "stinking" to your belief... that's just funny :D

Anyway, I can agree to disagree, that's the point of being a fan and talking on the forums. I respect your view, even if I disagree with it. I look forward to more discussions with you that can end respectfully :)

NYKiller
09-06-2012, 06:52 PM
I am not one to pick on grammar, but you called Coughlin a "couch" and said your "stinking" to your belief... that's just funny :D

Anyway, I can agree to disagree, that's the point of being a fan and talking on the forums. I respect your view, even if I disagree with it. I look forward to more discussions with you that can end respectfully :)

I think Coughlin can be a couch at times yes, but I'll call him a coach for now and I’ll stick to that belief LOL. That's the second time someone addressed my grammar on this board. I'll have to start proofreading after I type lol.

Morehead State
09-06-2012, 10:26 PM
Let's not forget, it was Coughlin that "cured" Tiki and Bradshaw of their fumbling problems... so he must be doing something right
Don't remember Tiki ever getting benched for almost an entire game

RoanokeFan
09-06-2012, 10:36 PM
I understand what you are trying to say, but I still disagree with Coughlin decision to bench Wilson especially with the Giants O-line problem. And Coughlin as a couch should have been addressing Wilson fumbling problem in practice well before the season start. He shouldn't have to put more focus on Wilson fumble problem this week. Anyway, I know we will disagree, but I'm still stinking to my belief.

Doesn't the fact that Wilson set as a season goal "no fumbles" an indication that the coaching staff did just as you suggest? It's been reported this was a problem for Wilson at VT as well. It can be fixed.

CDN_G-FAN
09-06-2012, 10:40 PM
Let's not pretend that Wilson walked off the field and Coughlin said "we haven't talked about this much, but ball security is pretty important around here".

God please. Does anyone really think that this hasn't been HAMMERED into this kid since he got here?

Really?

He has a reputation for fumbling, so given what we know about this coacing staff i think maybe, probably, they've discussed this with him, say, more than once.

THAT's why he got benched. Not because he fumbled, but because he probably went into this game knowing that his #1 responsibility was taking care of the football, and he didn't do it.

Did he cost us the game? No, we had lots of chances to win this one. But in a 1 score divisional game, he didn't help the cause.

I went to war with 49er fans for a month over this very point when they said how AWESOME Harbaugh is. He stuck by Kyle Williams and that kid clearly wasn't ready. They say it was bad luck. I say it was a coach who made an EMOTIONAL decision instead of a COACHING decision, and it cost them the game.

That's not how Coughlin roles. He's not going to put the team's chances in jeaprody to boost someone's confidence. He's going to do whatever he thinks you need to do to win.

On this team, you learn in practice and in meeting rooms. Gametime? Perform. No excuses.

Morehead State
09-06-2012, 11:16 PM
Doesn't the fact that Wilson set as a season goal "no fumbles" an indication that the coaching staff did just as you suggest? It's been reported this was a problem for Wilson at VT as well. It can be fixed.
Well then what's the point of drafting him. If they were prepared to bench him until he improves his ball security, they should not have drafted him.
Thats a wasted pick. You don't pick a guy in round 1 to sit him with a problem you already knew he had.

drewz
09-07-2012, 12:03 AM
I bet if Wilson came back in and fumbled in the 4th again, everyone would be like "Why didn't Coughlin bench his ***?"

I agree with his decision, BUT I'm hoping that he's back out there next week.

Hessian
09-07-2012, 12:47 AM
No, it's not right, nor is a fair punishment or goodway to learn. dYou have to "play to win", not "not to lose". Wilson is too big a potential weapon. He will not learn standing on the sidelines, nor will his confidence be restored. Play the rook and let him grow. Our offense needs his speed and dynamics!
I kinda wanna call bull **** on this but without the offensive part where I kick you in the nuts. Plenty of great pro's have sat out multiple seasons or backed up guys that are beyond their heyday. Rodgers comes to mind, Steve Young even though Montana wasn't a slouch :P Anyways you get my point as I get yours, let the talent learn to play.

Hessian
09-07-2012, 12:56 AM
Well then what's the point of drafting him. If they were prepared to bench him until he improves his ball security, they should not have drafted him.
Thats a wasted pick. You don't pick a guy in round 1 to sit him with a problem you already knew he had.
He was the last pick in the round and yes you do. Do you think the Gmen wanted to play Eli his first year with a sound journeyman like Warner.. errr I mean SB MVP Kurt Warner? Not to be an *** and I will kowtow to your excessive amounts of posts, but yeah I think you let the guy will learn a little by sitting him.

PennState1
09-07-2012, 02:48 AM
Don't remember Tiki ever getting benched for almost an entire game

He did get benched and so did Tiki...multiple times. TC is easy on these guys compared to the way Parcells dealt with stupid mistakes.

PennState1
09-07-2012, 02:54 AM
Let's not pretend that Wilson walked off the field and Coughlin said "we haven't talked about this much, but ball security is pretty important around here".

God please. Does anyone really think that this hasn't been HAMMERED into this kid since he got here?

Really?

He has a reputation for fumbling, so given what we know about this coacing staff i think maybe, probably, they've discussed this with him, say, more than once.

THAT's why he got benched. Not because he fumbled, but because he probably went into this game knowing that his #1 responsibility was taking care of the football, and he didn't do it.

Did he cost us the game? No, we had lots of chances to win this one. But in a 1 score divisional game, he didn't help the cause.

I went to war with 49er fans for a month over this very point when they said how AWESOME Harbaugh is. He stuck by Kyle Williams and that kid clearly wasn't ready. They say it was bad luck. I say it was a coach who made an EMOTIONAL decision instead of a COACHING decision, and it cost them the game.

That's not how Coughlin roles. He's not going to put the team's chances in jeaprody to boost someone's confidence. He's going to do whatever he thinks you need to do to win.

On this team, you learn in practice and in meeting rooms. Gametime? Perform. No excuses.

So very well said. Frankly, this is the problem with parenting today. No discipline! Parents threaten but don't follow through. Tough love is always appreciated in the end when a smart kid learns from it and is more successful because of it. Well said.

PennState1
09-07-2012, 03:08 AM
It depends on the RB talent level. An average back, maybe, but not David Wilson talent. Let's not forget, Bradshaw and Tiki had fumbling problems before they became good RBs. Wilson is the best giants running back, but nfl lack experience.

I respect Coughlin, but I really didn't like how the giants bench David Wilson after the fumble. Me personally as a coach would have pulled David Wilson to the side, give him a confidence boost speech, and let him know I still have faith in him and send him out there because he is the most talented giants running back. However, I would give Bradshaw the majority of the carries until I am confident that David Wilson has fixed his fumbling problem for the most part. However, Coughlin left him feeling down and didn't give him a early chance for redemption. Who knows how he would have performed after that just me make up for what he had done. Now he will be thinking about that fumble for an entire week. He might even shed a few tears during the week lol.

TC wants him to think about it for a whole week. He wants him to practice all week with the ball high and tight and never get careless with the rock again. Possessions are so valuable in football. You can't afford to give them away carelessly. If he was protecting the ball properly with both hands anticipating the hit, and he fumbled because of a perfect hit he probably would not have been benched. This was not the case. He was careless with the ball on only his 2nd play in his first game. This must be corrected, in practice, before he gets to carry the ball again.

Parcells used to make rookies who fumbled carry a football everywhere while at the Giants facility and encourage teammates and coaches to rip it out of their arms. Not until he was convinced that they carried the ball correctly 100% of the time would he allow a rook carry the rock again in a game.

It's called tough love and it works. Ask Curtis Martin what he thinks of Parcells.

BeatYale
09-07-2012, 03:38 AM
This isn't a classrom. It isn't about teaching at that point.....you gotta put him in the game instead of teaching him a lesson, because we need to have our best players on the field. Wilson is a big part of the offense and we needed him out there.

Game day isn't the time for players to figure out the importance of the fundamentals of their position though.

Rat_bastich
09-07-2012, 03:57 AM
TC made sure that he got Wilson's attention and drove the point home. Hopefully the returns will be great in the future. The kid was disappointed in himself and felt that he contributed to the loss. The thing that everyone seems to be forgetting though is that even with Wilson in there, the running game was going nowhere.

I'm sure that Wilson will probably get his carries against Tampa Bay and will be much improved. There is no way that TC will hold a grudge against the kid. They have invested too much in him and have made him the number 2 guy. He just needs some work.

Harooni
09-07-2012, 04:40 AM
This isn't a classrom. It isn't about teaching at that point.....you gotta put him in the game instead of teaching him a lesson, because we need to have our best players on the field. Wilson is a big part of the offense and we needed him out there. but at the same time, you have an important game , and as someone said , you can start to over think and make another mistake. He was still on spteams though so he saw the field. I do think TC goes a little over board with putting players in the doghouse, but a rookie in his first real game ever that is a div game also , i can kinda see why.

nycsportzfan
09-07-2012, 05:51 AM
Well then what's the point of drafting him. If they were prepared to bench him until he improves his ball security, they should not have drafted him.
Thats a wasted pick. You don't pick a guy in round 1 to sit him with a problem you already knew he had. well, they probably figured it was a bit overstated and just bad luck more then his fault at va.tech.. Now, he fumbles almost immedietly and Coughlin realizes how important that possesion was and didn't want to risk another one.. I'm sure if we were up, he'd of got back in.. He chose to go with his guy that had been part of 2 SB championship clubs, which is understandable..

Captain Chaos
09-07-2012, 06:52 AM
It's Coughlin's team, he will discipline as he sees fit. I think he's got the kid's attention and I think Wilson will work hard to hold onto the ball.

Diamondring
09-07-2012, 07:43 AM
There are more than one method to help the back not fumble and that is tell them real hard to hold on to the ball and still keep them in the regular offense.

jomo
09-07-2012, 07:55 AM
There are just 16 games in a regulat season. The coaches have to make quick and hard calls on who plays and who doesn't. You don't get do-overs in football. This is not baseball. Sitting a fumbler is not just a rookie thing. Turnovers are the biggest predictor of winning and losing. No big deal. Wilson was retuning kickoffs after the fumble. He not burried, just parked for a game.

Diamondring
09-07-2012, 08:01 AM
There are just 16 games in a regulat season. The coaches have to make quick and hard calls on who plays and who doesn't. You don't get do-overs in football. This is not baseball. Sitting a fumbler is not just a rookie thing. Turnovers are the biggest predictor of winning and losing. No big deal. Wilson was retuning kickoffs after the fumble. He not burried, just parked for a game.

Jomo you aint lying. When our rookie back fumbled the ball, I know something bad was going to happen.

GameTime
09-07-2012, 08:57 AM
Well then what's the point of drafting him. If they were prepared to bench him until he improves his ball security, they should not have drafted him.
Thats a wasted pick. You don't pick a guy in round 1 to sit him with a problem you already knew he had.
why is dsicplining a rookie wasting a pick?? Who knows what rules/deals the players have with TC. One thing for sure is TC will do what is better for the player and the team in the long run. This is not such a big deal as some of you are making out to be.

Morehead State
09-07-2012, 10:21 AM
why is dsicplining a rookie wasting a pick?? Who knows what rules/deals the players have with TC. One thing for sure is TC will do what is better for the player and the team in the long run. This is not such a big deal as some of you are making out to be.
Its not discipline. I doubt very seriously that David Wilson lacks discipline. Its punishment. Its more anger and frustration. If he believed that its a huge risk of further fumble then I can see that. I guess we don't know whats happened in practice. But if its a matter of just sitting the kid to "teach him a lesson", I think its a waste of talent.
The kid knows not to fumble. Its not like you can just decide not to fumble. You gotta play in a game and try to make plays. Everyone fumbles. Its football. Those guys are trying to strip you on every play.
I just don't get the "lets just sit a major offensive weapon for 3 1/2 quarters" attitude.
I just disagree with TC on this one.

GameTime
09-07-2012, 10:38 AM
Its not discipline. I doubt very seriously that David Wilson lacks discipline. Its punishment. Its more anger and frustration. If he believed that its a huge risk of further fumble then I can see that. I guess we don't know whats happened in practice. But if its a matter of just sitting the kid to "teach him a lesson", I think its a waste of talent.
The kid knows not to fumble. Its not like you can just decide not to fumble. You gotta play in a game and try to make plays. Everyone fumbles. Its football. Those guys are trying to strip you on every play.
I just don't get the "lets just sit a major offensive weapon for 3 1/2 quarters" attitude.
I just disagree with TC on this one.
punishment or repercussions for actions is a form of discipline. I am not here to try and convince you TC's methods are right. We all have our own opinions for sure. But TCs methods seem to work ans this kid will have a major impact on the Giants future running game and it starts with the next game in Tampa. He will no doubt have his chances. Of course he didnt want to fumble but he did. IMO DW staying in the game post fumble was not the do or die vs the Cowboys.

Buddy333
09-07-2012, 10:40 AM
He did the same thing to Scott last year. I really don't see this being a big deal. Also, he was clearly emotional about the fumble. I don't think that was a bad thing, but maybe he needed to sit this one out. He has to learn to let it go.

Diamondring
09-07-2012, 10:42 AM
It won't matter if he is playing on the regular offense anyways cause the run blocking wasn't good. I hope the Giants get out of that power run and add some different types of runs to help Bradshaw who should still be the main back.

Harooni
09-07-2012, 10:48 AM
Well lets see what happened to cruz , one drop and he stayed in, then you saw more. So we can see how it then becomes mental. TC probably made the right call , only problem was i think AB was winded by the 4th.

yoeddy
09-07-2012, 10:58 AM
Its not discipline. I doubt very seriously that David Wilson lacks discipline. Its punishment. Its more anger and frustration. If he believed that its a huge risk of further fumble then I can see that. I guess we don't know whats happened in practice. But if its a matter of just sitting the kid to "teach him a lesson", I think its a waste of talent.
The kid knows not to fumble. Its not like you can just decide not to fumble. You gotta play in a game and try to make plays. Everyone fumbles. Its football. Those guys are trying to strip you on every play.
I just don't get the "lets just sit a major offensive weapon for 3 1/2 quarters" attitude.
I just disagree with TC on this one.

Practice is the place to work on improving ball-security, not in the games. Come game-time, a player has to be ready...and the coach has to feel confident that the player is ready. We don't know what Wilson shows in practice, but maybe that fumble showed to TC that Wilson was not ready...

yoeddy
09-07-2012, 11:00 AM
Well lets see what happened to cruz , one drop and he stayed in, then you saw more. So we can see how it then becomes mental. TC probably made the right call , only problem was i think AB was winded by the 4th.

Bradshaw only had 17 carries in the whole game, and the Giants had the lowest total number of offensive plays in a couple of decades...can't imagine that Bradshaw would have been winded by the workload...

Harooni
09-07-2012, 11:05 AM
Bradshaw only had 17 carries in the whole game, and the Giants had the lowest total number of offensive plays in a couple of decades...can't imagine that Bradshaw would have been winded by the workload... don't forget he stays in to block and swing out on those passing plays also. if you play a lot of downs, even if your not running with the ball it can get tiring

yoeddy
09-07-2012, 11:29 AM
don't forget he stays in to block and swing out on those passing plays also. if you play a lot of downs, even if your not running with the ball it can get tiring

Giants only had the ball for 25 minutes (only 21 by the end of the 3rd quarter)...am having a hard time buying into the notion that Bradshaw was fatigued...

GMENAGAIN
09-07-2012, 12:26 PM
Yes it is.

Morehead State
09-07-2012, 12:33 PM
punishment or repercussions for actions is a form of discipline. I am not here to try and convince you TC's methods are right. We all have our own opinions for sure. But TCs methods seem to work ans this kid will have a major impact on the Giants future running game and it starts with the next game in Tampa. He will no doubt have his chances. Of course he didnt want to fumble but he did. IMO DW staying in the game post fumble was not the do or die vs the Cowboys.
You are making a fair point but in my view, to sit a kid for an entire game over a fumble seems excessive. I can see pulling the kid for a series or a quarter. But there does come a time where you have to put your best players on the field.
Again, I qualify that by saying that I don't know what the kid did in practice, but I would speculate that if he was having fumbling issues in practice we wouldn't have seen him in the backfield in the first quarter.

CDN_G-FAN
09-07-2012, 12:43 PM
One of the speculated reasons Wilson fell to us was because he's had fumble issues in the past.

i think the reason they sit him is not just because he fumbled, but because i'm sure they made it clear to him that they're happy to trade some of his explosivenes and moves for ball security.

If you're the coaching staff, you've communicate to the kid that his #1 priority is ball security, i think under those circumstances if he coughs it up, you have to sit him.

Morehead State
09-07-2012, 02:06 PM
One of the speculated reasons Wilson fell to us was because he's had fumble issues in the past.

i think the reason they sit him is not just because he fumbled, but because i'm sure they made it clear to him that they're happy to trade some of his explosivenes and moves for ball security.

If you're the coaching staff, you've communicate to the kid that his #1 priority is ball security, i think under those circumstances if he coughs it up, you have to sit him.

When you think too much about fumbling........

1. You fumble
2. You are far less effective.

BlueSanta
09-07-2012, 02:09 PM
We sat Bradshaw as a rookie when he fumbled.

We sat Da'rell Scott last year when he fumbled.

Why is it so wrong to sit a rookie this year when he fumbles? It is only fair to his teammates, equal treatment and all. He will still get his opportunities and hopefully he will make up for it. I think people are reading way to much into this. I am a huge DW fan and I think he will be a stud. I look forward to his career but anyone who thinks that rookies dont make these types of mistakes is new as a NFL fan.

yoeddy
09-07-2012, 02:12 PM
When you think too much about fumbling........

1. You fumble
2. You are far less effective.

When you don't think about fumbling and you've got a history of fumbling....

1. You fumble more
2. You get benched
3. You eventually get cut.

Morehead State
09-07-2012, 02:12 PM
We sat Bradshaw as a rookie when he fumbled.

We sat Da'rell Scott last year when he fumbled.

Why is it so wrong to sit a rookie this year when he fumbles? It is only fair to his teammates, equal treatment and all. He will still get his opportunities and hopefully he will make up for it. I think people are reading way to much into this. I am a huge DW fan and I think he will be a stud. I look forward to his career but anyone who thinks that rookies dont make these types of mistakes is new as a NFL fan.
As far as I'm concerned, we are better when he's on the field. We need to get him touches to help us win.

Morehead State
09-07-2012, 02:14 PM
When you don't think about fumbling and you've got a history of fumbling....

1. You fumble more
2. You get benched
3. You eventually get cut.
You teach the kid the fundamentals of how to carry the ball. But once you're on the field, you want him to think about making plays and winning games.
He's not a 7th rounder. He's a guy who needs to play now.

BlueSanta
09-07-2012, 02:17 PM
As far as I'm concerned, we are better when he's on the field. We need to get him touches to help us win.

I dont argue that, but this isnt a big deal. He was benched for a reason. TC always gives a guy who fumbles a short vacation.

yoeddy
09-07-2012, 02:18 PM
You teach the kid the fundamentals of how to carry the ball. But once you're on the field, you want him to think about making plays and winning games.
He's not a 7th rounder. He's a guy who needs to play now.

How did the team survive without him last year???

Morehead State
09-07-2012, 02:21 PM
How did the team survive without him last year???
You do realize that this years team has some different players...right?

Morehead State
09-07-2012, 02:22 PM
I dont argue that, but this isnt a big deal. He was benched for a reason. TC always gives a guy who fumbles a short vacation.
I thought it wasn't short enough. Thats all I'm saying. I really expected the kid back in the second half. And was very much looking forward to that.

yoeddy
09-07-2012, 02:29 PM
You do realize that this years team has some different players...right?

Of course. But outside of Eli, I would hope that the team is built in a way that a single player missing some playing time isn't going to sink the ship. Wilson will hopefully be a great player for us, but I certainly wasn't pinning the team's chances on the 32nd pick in the draft.

Do you really think that Wilson, in his first game as a pro, would add that much to the game over what Bradshaw gives us to overlook his past fumbling problems at this point in the season? If this was week 12 and this was his first fumble in 100+ carries, I would question benching him...but he's a rookie playing his first game behind a proven veteran feature HB in a game where mistakes were killing them. Put the veteran in and let the rookie with the fumbling history think about it...

Morehead State
09-07-2012, 02:32 PM
Of course. But outside of Eli, I would hope that the team is built in a way that a single player missing some playing time isn't going to sink the ship. Wilson will hopefully be a great player for us, but I certainly wasn't pinning the team's chances on the 32nd pick in the draft.

Do you really think that Wilson, in his first game as a pro, would add that much to the game over what Bradshaw gives us to overlook his past fumbling problems at this point in the season? If this was week 12 and this was his first fumble in 100+ carries, I would question benching him...but he's a rookie playing his first game behind a proven veteran feature HB in a game where mistakes were killing them. Put the veteran in and let the rookie with the fumbling history think about it...
I'm not saying that he's indispensable. I have no idea what his impact will be. I do like his game....a lot though. I do know that he was on the field and was clearly part of the gameplan. So the gameplan had to change with his benching. I assume that KG installs the gameplan that he believes will give us the best chance to win.
You do the math.

yoeddy
09-07-2012, 02:45 PM
I'm not saying that he's indispensable. I have no idea what his impact will be. I do like his game....a lot though. I do know that he was on the field and was clearly part of the gameplan. So the gameplan had to change with his benching. I assume that KG installs the gameplan that he believes will give us the best chance to win.
You do the math.

I like his game, too. But this was a huge game...season opener, nationally televised, defending champs, division rival, rookie's first pro game, history of fumbling, proven feature HB available...I'm pretty sure the coaches took all of that into consideration when evaluating what to do, and with all of that stuff out there, I fully support "going with the veteran". And as others have pointed out, it's not like Wilson didn't see the field again...they gave him time to settle down, and then let him focus on doing one thing well (kick return) rather than overload him with HB duties and all the pressure that goes with that.

Bing Crosby
09-07-2012, 02:59 PM
You teach the kid the fundamentals of how to carry the ball. But once you're on the field, you want him to think about making plays and winning games.
He's not a 7th rounder. He's a guy who needs to play now.

So let me get this straight, you expect Tom Coughlin, to give up on his philosophy because Wilson is a first round draft pick? The same Tom Coughlin who has won, or been the member of the winning staff of three Superbowl titles is going to abandon that philosophy, because Wilson is a first rounder. That's the long and short of it right?

And why exactly would keeping Wilson playing have changed the outcome at all? Or is your point that it would give him warm fuzzies if Coughlin just sent him back out there? Wilson is a rookie, he screwed up and he got benched. And maybe I trust Wilson as a pro, but I doubt he is emotionally scarred, he isn't the first rookie to be sat because he screwed up. As others have already shown Bradshaw was his first year as well, and he isn't a crying child today.If anything I imagine he has an even larger drive now to prove himself once again, when his next opportunity rises.

Coughlin's philosophy has worked great, and I don't see it screwing up because this kid was picked first. Sorry, he will move on and so will the team, and nothing that he could have done Wednesday would have changed the outcome of the game.

GMENAGAIN
09-07-2012, 03:08 PM
You teach the kid the fundamentals of how to carry the ball. But once you're on the field, you want him to think about making plays and winning games.
He's not a 7th rounder. He's a guy who needs to play now.

Not if he keeps fumbling the ball . . . .

Morehead State
09-07-2012, 03:39 PM
So let me get this straight, you expect Tom Coughlin, to give up on his philosophy because Wilson is a first round draft pick? The same Tom Coughlin who has won, or been the member of the winning staff of three Superbowl titles is going to abandon that philosophy, because Wilson is a first rounder. That's the long and short of it right?

And why exactly would keeping Wilson playing have changed the outcome at all? Or is your point that it would give him warm fuzzies if Coughlin just sent him back out there? Wilson is a rookie, he screwed up and he got benched. And maybe I trust Wilson as a pro, but I doubt he is emotionally scarred, he isn't the first rookie to be sat because he screwed up. As others have already shown Bradshaw was his first year as well, and he isn't a crying child today.If anything I imagine he has an even larger drive now to prove himself once again, when his next opportunity rises.

Coughlin's philosophy has worked great, and I don't see it screwing up because this kid was picked first. Sorry, he will move on and so will the team, and nothing that he could have done Wednesday would have changed the outcome of the game.

First of all, where is it that we know that TC's "philosophy" is to bench a player for the entire remainder of a game if he fumbles? If its his philosophy, I never heard about it.
And as i said, I have no idea if he would have helped us or not. But the coaches clearly did because he was on the field.
I would have liked to see the kid play and think he is an asset to our offense. (obviously not if he fumbles a lot) But its not like he put the ball on the field a few times.
I was just disappointed not to see him in the second half.
And just as I can't know if he would have helped us in the game, you have no idea that he wouldn't. But I like my position better since they obviuosly had planned to play him a lot in that game.

BlueSanta
09-07-2012, 03:52 PM
First of all, where is it that we know that TC's "philosophy" is to bench a player for the entire remainder of a game if he fumbles? If its his philosophy, I never heard about it.
.

Well, I showed examples above how he has done this in the past with other players in similar situations. Da'rel Scott was bench for the later part of the season last year after his 2nd fumble in 5 carries. At 1 point Ahmad Bradshaw was benched his rookie year too. It is well documented that TC gave Tiki an ultimatum. So there is a pattern. Your entire point is based on you "not having heard about TC doing this" in the past, and now you have been informed that he has in fact done this in the past. So I guess your entire point is lost.

Morehead State
09-07-2012, 04:07 PM
Well, I showed examples above how he has done this in the past with other players in similar situations. Da'rel Scott was bench for the later part of the season last year after his 2nd fumble in 5 carries. At 1 point Ahmad Bradshaw was benched his rookie year too. It is well documented that TC gave Tiki an ultimatum. So there is a pattern. Your entire point is based on you "not having heard about TC doing this" in the past, and now you have been informed that he has in fact done this in the past. So I guess your entire point is lost.
Hold on here. I have no problem with TC sitting the kid for a while. I have no problem with a series or even the remainder of the half. But there comes a time when the kid has to play. Scott was a 4th string RB. Wilson is expected to share carries at #2 and hopefully be #1 at some point.
Plus the was ONE fumble, not a pattern. Bradshaw and Tiki had a pattern of fumbles.
I just think that the kid should have been back in the game in the second half. I'm not saying he should have just acted as if it didn't happen.

And "ultimatums" are interesting fodder, but maybe you can show me where Tiki was benched for close to an entire game. And he fumbled his *** off.

gmen0820
09-07-2012, 04:55 PM
It's only a matter of time until Bradshaw misses a few weeks, Wilson is starting and when/if he fumbles, there really won't be a choice on if he plays. I think when Wilson eventually gets that chance, he will be more relaxed, and better because of it.

God am I glad Ware is gone, and signed. Last thing I would want to see is that guy in our backfield with Bradshaw last night. You know, if Ware played last night, I probably would have gouged my eyes out.

BlueSanta
09-07-2012, 05:27 PM
Hold on here. I have no problem with TC sitting the kid for a while. I have no problem with a series or even the remainder of the half. But there comes a time when the kid has to play. Scott was a 4th string RB. Wilson is expected to share carries at #2 and hopefully be #1 at some point.
Plus the was ONE fumble, not a pattern. Bradshaw and Tiki had a pattern of fumbles.
I just think that the kid should have been back in the game in the second half. I'm not saying he should have just acted as if it didn't happen.

And "ultimatums" are interesting fodder, but maybe you can show me where Tiki was benched for close to an entire game. And he fumbled his *** off.


I gave examples above, you were made aware of the history. So in light of your comments below, consider yourself eductaed :


First of all, where is it that we know that TC's "philosophy" is to bench a player for the entire remainder of a game if he fumbles? If its his philosophy, I never heard about it.
.

You can nitpick about Tiki's ultimatum, but it doesnt nullify the other very strong evidence.

Again Bradshaw was benched his rookie year and again in 2010 when he lost his starting job because of fumbles.Last year, Da'rel never saw the field (cept returns, EXACTLY like DW) after week 7 after his 2nd fumble in 5 attempts. So effectively he was benched for over half a season. So, this isnt unprecedented, just because you didnt know.

I sure hope DW isnt benched that long, I love watching him run. But, make no mistake, because you are unaware of something does not make it untrue and TC has a long history of not putting up with fumbles and benching players.

eLi MusT gO dEEp
09-07-2012, 05:35 PM
I never knew he fumbled the ball every 48 touches at Va Tech. That's not good. But if anyone can cure a case of the FUMBLES.. it's Coach Coughlin. He worked wonders with Tiki, I am sure he's already got David walking around with a ball in his arm all day now. Hopefully.

It was a huge fumble, in his very first game, in a big division game.... but it was still the first game of the year. We can get payback on Dallas, David better just focus on the now and wait for his chance at revenge when the time comes.

And as for the benching; yeah, it was the right move.

Morehead State
09-07-2012, 07:41 PM
I gave examples above, you were made aware of the history. So in light of your comments below, consider yourself eductaed :



You can nitpick about Tiki's ultimatum, but it doesnt nullify the other very strong evidence.

Again Bradshaw was benched his rookie year and again in 2010 when he lost his starting job because of fumbles.Last year, Da'rel never saw the field (cept returns, EXACTLY like DW) after week 7 after his 2nd fumble in 5 attempts. So effectively he was benched for over half a season. So, this isnt unprecedented, just because you didnt know.

I sure hope DW isnt benched that long, I love watching him run. But, make no mistake, because you are unaware of something does not make it untrue and TC has a long history of not putting up with fumbles and benching players.

What is it again that I am unaware of? I've been a Giants fan for 46 years. I understand TC's history. I followed BC in the 90's with Glenn Foley. The kid fumbled once and he was benched for the game. I say that might not be the best thing for the team. You can scold me with claims of "reported ultimatums" (how ironic since Tike saved TC's job in '06) but I know of no case where an entire game plan had to be changed because a player was benched for one fumble. I'm sure you can cite one.

And.......thanks for the education. I'm never too old to learn.

giant-4-life
09-07-2012, 07:53 PM
Coughlin, surprises me. He always taught our RB's to carry the ball across their chest. tiki, Jacobs and Bradshaw. I kinda fault Coughlin for that fumble. one thing to teach; Carry the ball across the chest. but that's just me.

gmen0820
09-07-2012, 08:02 PM
Coughlin, surprises me. He always taught our RB's to carry the ball across their chest. tiki, Jacobs and Bradshaw. I kinda fault Coughlin for that fumble. one thing to teach; Carry the ball across the chest. but that's just me.Call me naive, but I'm almost 100% positive that Coughlin has been teaching Wilson how to carry it. It's muscle memory, can't expect it to be fixed in one practice, maybe even a whole summer.

CDN_G-FAN
09-07-2012, 08:43 PM
When you think too much about fumbling........

1. You fumble
2. You are far less effective.

Can't agree with that at all.

and even if i did, i don't mind him being less effective as long as he hangs onto the ball.

Slyde
09-07-2012, 08:44 PM
It's better he fumbles now then in December or January...

Morehead State
09-07-2012, 08:50 PM
Can't agree with that at all.

and even if i did, i don't mind him being less effective as long as he hangs onto the ball.
Do you know what David Wilson is if he's thinking about protecting the ball.




















Danny Ware

appodictic
09-07-2012, 08:54 PM
He was close to/in tears..... That is why he sat. Not because of displin. No one can come into the game crying and needing a hug.

gmen0820
09-07-2012, 09:19 PM
He was close to/in tears..... That is why he sat. Not because of displin. No one can come into the game crying and needing a hug.Uh yeah, gonna have to call bull**** on that. You're outrageous claim is discredited by the fact that he was still returning kicks.

appodictic
09-07-2012, 09:58 PM
Uh yeah, gonna have to call bull**** on that. You're outrageous claim is discredited by the fact that he was still returning kicks. Well he did cry.... http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/david_wilson_crys_and_rob_ryan_loves_it/11640040 but how else do you explain he had 4 carries in the first quarter and 0 after his fumble?

Diamondring
09-07-2012, 10:05 PM
He was just mad that he fumbled the ball. He knows it will be on his record for the rest of his life.

GMENAGAIN
09-07-2012, 10:56 PM
Well he did cry.... http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/david_wilson_crys_and_rob_ryan_loves_it/11640040 but how else do you explain he had 4 carries in the first quarter and 0 after his fumble?

You said that he was benched because he was crying and that's just not true.

He was benched because he fumbled.

BlueBlooded1979
09-08-2012, 02:57 AM
This is Tom Coughlin ( 2 time SB winner btw) coached team. If you drop the ball you lose snaps, end of story. He has had 1 extremely sub par game and people are calling him a "game breaker" and talking about keeping him in when he can't protect the ball. It is asinine, the scouting report on on him was a fumbler that lacked consistency. That is exactly what we all saw.

lawrenceS59
09-08-2012, 03:02 AM
I'm not sure what the big deal is. It was his first game....he fumbled.....the coach didn't want to take a gamble on him seeing how he has a history of fumbling so he benched him(he still did kick returns). 1 GAME! It's not like he's going to bench him the entire season because he fumbled. He'll have his chance against Tampa. I don't know why people are acting like the Cowboys was the only game we have this year.

BlueSanta
09-08-2012, 03:07 AM
What is it again that I am unaware of? I've been a Giants fan for 46 years. I understand TC's history. \

Since you seem to be losing your memory regarding what you have typed, I will refresh your memory........


First of all, where is it that we know that TC's "philosophy" is to bench a player for the entire remainder of a game if he fumbles? If its his philosophy, I never heard about it.
.

gmen0820
09-08-2012, 09:49 AM
Well he did cry.... http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/david_wilson_crys_and_rob_ryan_loves_it/11640040 but how else do you explain he had 4 carries in the first quarter and 0 after his fumble?He only had two carries. I explain zero after his fumble like anyone else would: TC didn't want to risk another fumble. I'm not arguing anything other than the fact that you said DW didn't play again because of his mental state. He was on the field after that returning kicks, which alone shatters your claim.

BlueBlitzer
09-08-2012, 09:56 AM
If it was Bill Parcells He would be riding the pine, until He had splinters. His philosophy always was ( If You Fumble the ball, you don't run with my offense until you prove we can trust you )

Morehead State
09-08-2012, 01:09 PM
Since you seem to be losing your memory regarding what you have typed, I will refresh your memory........
My point is that its not his philosophy to bench players for entire games for one fumble.
You cited "ultimatums to Tiki", but nothing relevant to this situation.

BlueSanta
09-08-2012, 01:50 PM
My point is that its not his philosophy to bench players for entire games for one fumble.
You cited "ultimatums to Tiki", but nothing relevant to this situation.


Since your recollection of what t I have typed is just as bad as your memory about what you have typed, I will refresh your it for you:






Bradshaw was benched his rookie year and again in 2010 when he lost his starting job because of fumbles.Last year, Da'rel never saw the field (cept returns, EXACTLY like DW) after week 7 after his 2nd fumble in 5 attempts. So effectively he was benched for over half a season. So, this isnt unprecedented.



Seriously, do you even read people who respond to you? This is the 3rd time I have posted this and you just keep ignoring it acting like those posts never exist, instead you pick 1 minor point out about tiki saying how that 1 menial example doesnt make a point.

Tiki's "ultimatum" was just a side note to support the fact that TC has always been very firm on fumblers, no more.

Morehead State
09-08-2012, 07:38 PM
Since your recollection of what t I have typed is just as bad as your memory about what you have typed, I will refresh your it for you:






Seriously, do you even read people who respond to you? This is the 3rd time I have posted this and you just keep ignoring it acting like those posts never exist, instead you pick 1 minor point out about tiki saying how that 1 menial example doesnt make a point.

Tiki's "ultimatum" was just a side note to support the fact that TC has always been very firm on fumblers, no more.
Usually I read the first sentence. If I deem it drivel then I assume the rest of the post is also drivel. (lets face it, it usually is).
I then respond accordingly. So may I suggest you make the first sentence count.

brad
09-08-2012, 07:42 PM
Usually I read the first sentence. If I deem it drivel then I assume the rest of the post is also drivel. (lets face it, it usually is).
I then respond accordingly. So may I suggest you make the first sentence count.

No offense, but it might be a better idea to simply not respond to comments you deem "drivel"... that would avoid a lot of confusion and senseless arguments about who said what... just saying...

BlueSanta
09-08-2012, 07:58 PM
My point is that its not his philosophy to bench players for entire games for one fumble.
You cited "ultimatums to Tiki", but nothing relevant to this situation.


Usually I read the first sentence. If I deem it drivel then I assume the rest of the post is also drivel. (lets face it, it usually is).
I then respond accordingly. So may I suggest you make the first sentence count.

Well, since you dont remember your own posts too, they must be drive as well. Anyways, i am done responding to a guy who doesnt have a lick of reading comprehension.

The examples I set forth above show a clear pattern by TC.. You said you were unaware of it. Well, now you are aware if you choose to read.

But dont respond to posts you dont read.

joemorrisforprez
09-08-2012, 08:24 PM
This is Tom Coughlin ( 2 time SB winner btw) coached team. If you drop the ball you lose snaps, end of story. He has had 1 extremely sub par game and people are calling him a "game breaker" and talking about keeping him in when he can't protect the ball. It is asinine, the scouting report on on him was a fumbler that lacked consistency. That is exactly what we all saw.

I agree...... fumbling the football should have some very serious repercussions. Fact is, that fumble blew a very promising drive. If I had to name some of the reasons the Giants lost the game, that play would be included.

Martin 2
09-08-2012, 08:25 PM
Even a coach that won 2 Super-Bowls??

Get outta here!

He learned plenty that night!







i don't agree with benching a player for fumbling, any player any team,


Stubbornness from any Coach is a pathway to defeat

brad
09-08-2012, 09:10 PM
Personally, threads like this make me wish for the good old days, when men played football... all this worrying about hurting their feelings we might as well be talking about beauty pageants.

Morehead State
09-08-2012, 09:15 PM
No offense, but it might be a better idea to simply not respond to comments you deem "drivel"... that would avoid a lot of confusion and senseless arguments about who said what... just saying...
Threads of drivel are the most fun to respond to.
Don't you want me to be happy?

Morehead State
09-08-2012, 09:16 PM
Personally, threads like this make me wish for the good old days, when men played football... all this worrying about hurting their feelings we might as well be talking about beauty pageants.
who cares about his feelings. I haven't read a single post that expressed concern over the kids feelings.
You are making stuff up.

brad
09-08-2012, 09:22 PM
who cares about his feelings. I haven't read a single post that expressed concern over the kids feelings.
You are making stuff up.

There is 17 pages of comments, and several posts mention his moral, confidence, crying etc.... but we already know you only read the first sentence so you probably missed it...

byron
09-08-2012, 09:27 PM
I can hear old TC saying to Wilson "stop your crying before I give you something to cry about"

brad
09-08-2012, 09:28 PM
Threads of drivel are the most fun to respond to.
Don't you want me to be happy?

Of course your happiness is the only thing that matters! LOL

Morehead State
09-08-2012, 09:32 PM
There is 17 pages of comments, and several posts mention his moral, confidence, crying etc.... but we already know you only read the first sentence so you probably missed it...
Well put it this way....I don't give a **** about his feelings. I care about winning football games. He was in the gameplan and they removed him because he fumbled. I wanted to see the kid play. No I didn't want to see him fumble, but benching him for the rest of the game doesn't give back that turnover.
As I said, I could see a series or even the remainder of the half, but not the entire game, especially a game where our offense struggled.

brad
09-08-2012, 09:43 PM
Well put it this way....I don't give a **** about his feelings. I care about winning football games. He was in the gameplan and they removed him because he fumbled. I wanted to see the kid play. No I didn't want to see him fumble, but benching him for the rest of the game doesn't give back that turnover.
As I said, I could see a series or even the remainder of the half, but not the entire game, especially a game where our offense struggled.

His tendency for fumbling the ball are well documented, while I am sure coaches have been working with him on that, it clearly isn't a problem he has solved, or considered as important as he should. While I agree with many who think he is going to be a very good RB one day, I don't think it's worth risking giving up big plays to the other team. Turnovers lose games... I can't comprehend why some don't get that. But clearly some never will.

We can agree to disagree... especially if you think he was going to make such an impact, fumbles and all, that there would have been any difference in the outcome of that game.

gmen46
09-08-2012, 09:51 PM
To the OP:
YES.

Rookie fumble,
Rookie no play

ShakeandBake
09-08-2012, 10:05 PM
To the OP:
YES.

Rookie fumble,
Rookie no play

Yeah, we should just bench him for the rest of the season.

fourth&forever
09-08-2012, 10:25 PM
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gmen46
09-08-2012, 10:35 PM
Yeah, we should just bench him for the rest of the season.

So, that's the choice here? Put him back in the Dallas game, or sit him for the season?