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shotcalla39
12-15-2011, 02:01 AM
Eli is ranked #9 in the league this year in total QBR... Matt Hasselbeck, Toby Romo and Matt Ryan are ahead of him just to name a few..

He was also ranked outside of the just 9 in total QBR in week 14 in one of the most incredibly clutch performances in recent memory... Guys like Sanchez and Flacco are ahead lol

To put the numbers in perspective, he is the only other player besides Dan Marino to throw for 400 yds in 1 YEAR.. HE already tied the NFLs 4th quarter TD record in a season with 14. And he's on pace to throw for just under 5000 yards...

QBR is a crock of ****

DragonSoul
12-15-2011, 02:38 AM
Romo has similar #s to Eli, difference is, Eli = Clutch. Not sure about the other guys. Also Romo in that game had 4 TDS, and Eli had 2 tds and 1 int.

Weygand
12-15-2011, 03:39 AM
Romo has similar #s to Eli, difference is, Eli = Clutch. Not sure about the other guys. Also Romo in that game had 4 TDS, and Eli had 2 tds and 1 int.

But that sort of demonstrates the accuracy of the rating. Romo while yes he was the QB of the losing team finished the game with a gaudy QB rating of 141 and Eli a pedestrian 90. And Romo was one dropped pass away from winning that game. On top of that, 4tds no picks; Romo didn't drop those passes......his receivers did. And even then, it was special teams that let him down at the end of the game. Really, Eli was more at fault for his interception than Romo was for his receivers dropping passes.

We have to play them again in 3 weeks and the Giants have been humiliated in the make or break games the last 2 seasons (Carolina in '09 and the Packer disgrace last season). Rather than QB comparisons, we should be asking why our D gave up 4 touchdowns and if relying on the cowboys to drop passes is part of the game plan.

DragonSoul
12-15-2011, 03:50 AM
Romo has similar #s to Eli, difference is, Eli = Clutch. Not sure about the other guys. Also Romo in that game had 4 TDS, and Eli had 2 tds and 1 int.

But that sort of demonstrates the accuracy of the rating.* Romo while yes he was the QB of the losing team finished the game with a gaudy QB rating of 141 and Eli a pedestrian 90.* And Romo was one dropped pass away from winning that game.* On top of that, 4tds no picks; Romo didn't drop those passes......his receivers did.* And even then, it was special teams that let him down at the end of the game.* Really, Eli was more at fault for his interception than Romo was for his receivers dropping passes.

We have to play them again in 3 weeks and the Giants have been humiliated in the make or break games the last 2 seasons (Carolina in '09 and the Packer disgrace last season).* Rather than QB comparisons, we should be asking why our D gave up 4 touchdowns and if relying on the cowboys to drop passes is part of the game plan.


The 1st pass Eli threw in the very beginning of the game that wasn't an int would have been on him. Romo had a play like that early as well, but a tougher grab by our defenders if i recall. Both sides had drops.

Btw a tipped ball once again that bounced around and landed into the arm of the 1 handed LB! I do not put that on Eli, even though the number is against him. Nearly everyone says that it was a crazy fluke int. But thats the luck the team and Eli has.

And the reason why Eli > Romo is because he is Clutch and it was proof positive once again. Eli made the throws when it counted most and has done so practically all year. Romo might have missed Austin especially on that possible TD towards the end BUT he didn't connect, and that is one of the things that separates them. Eli will typically make those plays in crunch time, while Romo won't, and that is why i named him a couple years back the mini-McNabb.

Another difference is Romo also cost his team what 2-3 games alone? Like the Lions game to bring up 1 game right off the bat. Do not forget about our offensive line and run game vs what he has to play with.

Finally look at the level of competion we have played the last 4-6 weeks vs the Cowboys. They barely got away with the win vs the fins, and should have lost to the skins in OT if their kicker didn't miss twice, and then they lost to Arizona. While we got creamed by NO (thank the defense), Lost to rodgers after tying it up with less then a minute left (again thank the defense).

So there are big differences if you choose to look a bit deeper.

Weygand
12-15-2011, 04:00 AM
The 1st pass Eli threw in the very beginning of the game that wasn't an int would have been on him. Romo had a play like that early as well, but a tougher grab by our defenders if i recall. Both sides had drops.

Btw a tipped ball once again that bounced around and landed into the arm of the 1 handed LB! I do not put that on Eli, even though the number is against him. Nearly everyone says that it was a crazy fluke int. But thats the luck the team and Eli has.

And the reason why Eli > Romo is because he is Clutch and it was proof positive once again. Eli made the throws when it counted most and has done so practically all year. Romo might have missed Austin especially on that possible TD towards the end BUT he didn't, and that is one of the things that separates them. Eli will typically make those plays in crunch time, while Romo won't, and that is why i named him a couple years back the mini-McNabb.

Another difference is Romo also cost his team what 2-3 games alone? Like the Lions game to bring up 1 game right off the bat. Do not forget about our offensive line and run game vs what he has to play with.

Finally look at the level of competion we have played the last 4-6 weeks vs the Cowboys. They barely got away with the win vs the fins, and should have lost to the skins in OT if their kicker didn't miss twice, and then they lost to Arizona. While we got creamed by NO (thank the defense), Lost to rodgers after tying it up with less then a minute left (again thank the defense).

So there are big differences if you choose to look a bit deeper.

The Packers also have a horrid pass defense and we barely beat Miami ourselves. And if we're looking deep, Romo lead his team to a win over the 9ers.

But I'm not trying to make this about Eli being bad...I just don't think Romo is as much of a scrub as he is sometimes made out to be.

Yes, both sides had some drops and both QBs made up for the missed opportunities and put their team in position to win the game.

giantsfan420
12-15-2011, 04:10 AM
the only reason eli isnt ranked higher on the qbr is bc of two really awful outings. the skins game week one he had a putrid total qbr and i think the second philly game he had another putrid total qbr. i think there was one more game he had a bad qbr.

if you were to drop those 2 or 3 awful performances, which you can't do, eli would be top 3 total qbr.

but in the old qb rating system eli is 4th i believe and a few points behind either brees or brady.

eli is killing it this year, no stat is going to deter that fact. i wouldnt be surprised if eli threw for 350 to 400 yds the next 3 games and breaks marino's record while rodgers brees and brady dont get it.

25 tds 12 ints, 4200 yards 60 comp% eli is absolutely killing it and imo he is the league mvp slightly ahead of rodgers

DragonSoul
12-15-2011, 04:13 AM
The 1st pass Eli threw in the very beginning of the game that wasn't an int would have been on him. Romo had a play like that early as well, but a tougher grab by our defenders if i recall. Both sides had drops.

Btw a tipped ball once again that bounced around and landed into the arm of the 1 handed LB! I do not put that on Eli, even though the number is against him. Nearly everyone says that it was a crazy fluke int. But thats the luck the team and Eli has.

And the reason why Eli > Romo is because he is Clutch and it was proof positive once again. Eli made the throws when it counted most and has done so practically all year. Romo might have missed Austin especially on that possible TD towards the end BUT he didn't, and that is one of the things that separates them. Eli will typically make those plays in crunch time, while Romo won't, and that is why i named him a couple years back the mini-McNabb.

Another difference is Romo also cost his team what 2-3 games alone? Like the Lions game to bring up 1 game right off the bat. Do not forget about our offensive line and run game vs what he has to play with.

Finally look at the level of competion we have played the last 4-6 weeks vs the Cowboys. They barely got away with the win vs the fins, and should have lost to the skins in OT if their kicker didn't miss twice, and then they lost to Arizona. While we got creamed by NO (thank the defense), Lost to rodgers after tying it up with less then a minute left (again thank the defense).

So there are big differences if you choose to look a bit deeper.

The Packers also have a horrid pass defense and we barely beat Miami ourselves.* And if we're looking deep, Romo lead his team to a win over the 9ers.*

But I'm not trying to make this about Eli being bad...I just don't think Romo is as much of a scrub as he is sometimes made out to be.*

Yes, both sides had some drops and both QBs made up for the missed opportunities and put their team in position to win the game.*
Wont get into the minutia of those games, as we can clearly go around in circles. I agree Romo is not a bad QB, but what separates Eli and him is what is the big difference and at the end, thats what it comes down to when it counts. That is why I do not Feel Romo will win a SB, unless he changes his stripes and can do it consistently in crunch time, not just against bad teams or have great numbers after blowing out a bad team.

Firenugget
12-15-2011, 05:41 AM
No offense, but who really cares? We know what we have here, we have the best QB we've had in a very long time. Other than that, the only thing I care about are W's.

shotcalla39
12-15-2011, 05:41 AM
Romo has similar #s to Eli, difference is, Eli = Clutch. Not sure about the other guys. Also Romo in that game had 4 TDS, and Eli had 2 tds and 1 int.

Right and this so called QBR is supposed to take the clutch factor and situations into its stztline... Sure on paper it looked like Romo had a better game but if u watched the game you would see who the better QB was that day...

After seeing Eli ranked as the 9th best QB for the year according to that stat .. that stat is garbage to me... Matt Hasselbeck??? Really???? If Eli continues his next 3 games like his last 3 games and we get into the playoffs he should win mvp

yoeddy
12-15-2011, 06:50 AM
Romo has similar #s to Eli, difference is, Eli = Clutch. Not sure about the other guys. Also Romo in that game had 4 TDS, and Eli had 2 tds and 1 int.

But that sort of demonstrates the accuracy of the rating.* Romo while yes he was the QB of the losing team finished the game with a gaudy QB rating of 141 and Eli a pedestrian 90.* And Romo was one dropped pass away from winning that game.* On top of that, 4tds no picks; Romo didn't drop those passes......his receivers did.* And even then, it was special teams that let him down at the end of the game.* Really, Eli was more at fault for his interception than Romo was for his receivers dropping passes.

We have to play them again in 3 weeks and the Giants have been humiliated in the make or break games the last 2 seasons (Carolina in '09 and the Packer disgrace last season).* Rather than QB comparisons, we should be asking why our D gave up 4 touchdowns and if relying on the cowboys to drop passes is part of the game plan.



How would it have impacted Eli's rating if Manningham didn't drop the TD pass in the last drive? Or if Ballard wasn't interfered with in the end zone in the 2nd quarter?

JimC
12-15-2011, 07:41 AM
Eli is ranked #9 in the league this year in total QBR... Matt Hasselbeck, Toby Romo and Matt Ryan are ahead of him just to name a few..

He was also ranked outside of the just 9 in total QBR in week 14 in one of the most incredibly clutch performances in recent memory... Guys like Sanchez and Flacco are ahead lol

<font size="6" color="#0000FF">To put the numbers in perspective, he is the only other player besides Dan Marino to throw for 400 yds in 1 YEAR.. </font> HE already tied the NFLs 4th quarter TD record in a season with 14. And he's on pace to throw for just under 5000 yards...

QBR is a crock of ****

This can't be right.

JimC
12-15-2011, 07:44 AM
This is what makes it fun. Your team is relevant in the 15th week of the season. Everybody has opinions on this and that. Good stuff....gets the juices flowing.

JUST BEAT THE SKINS !!!!!!!!!!!!

elismom
12-15-2011, 07:57 AM
Eli is ranked #9 in the league this year in total QBR... Matt Hasselbeck, Toby Romo and Matt Ryan are ahead of him just to name a few..

He was also ranked outside of the just 9 in total QBR in week 14 in one of the most incredibly clutch performances in recent memory... Guys like Sanchez and Flacco are ahead lol

To put the numbers in perspective, he is the only other player besides Dan Marino to throw for 400 yds in 1 YEAR.. HE already tied the NFLs 4th quarter TD record in a season with 14. And he's on pace to throw for just under 5000 yards...

QBR is a crock of ****

I fought this fight for yrs with Eli. I argued he would be a HOF QB. HE is now, no debating. Everyone knows it. Evreryone hates it. And Eli or us die hards could care less.He just keeps having winning season. Lets sit back now and Enjoy this time now that we have a FRANCHISE QB.

Thanks EASY

GameTime
12-15-2011, 08:05 AM
QBR and any other rating system is all geared for fantasy football junkies. Stats win games with that group.</P>


All you fans of real football have to do is watch games to know who are the good QBs. </P>


Eli is far ahead of Romo IMO when it comes to be a good NFL QB. I am not an ELi homer and certainly know there are handful of QBs that can and do perform better than Eli on a regular basis.</P>


Eli has had a pick in almost every game.......Above and beyond what he is doing that is good he needs to STOP the picks. His fault or not the picks need to STOP. They are putting the team behind the curve in each game. </P>


Dallas lost because their defense sucked that night. The Giants, if they lost, would have been because of the defense and the 7 added from the pick. </P>

Weygand
12-15-2011, 02:36 PM
How would it have impacted Eli's rating if Manningham didn't drop the TD pass in the last drive? Or if Ballard wasn't interfered with in the end zone in the 2nd quarter?

Had Manningham held onto it, using the NFL QB rating, Eli would have finished with a 100.3 rating. Because those were both from the Dallas 8, the yardage is the same so had Ballard held on for 6 it would have been the same 100.3

yoeddy
12-15-2011, 02:43 PM
How would it have impacted Eli's rating if Manningham didn't drop the TD pass in the last drive? Or if Ballard wasn't interfered with in the end zone in the 2nd quarter?

Had Manningham held onto it, using the NFL QB rating, Eli would have finished with a 100.3 rating. Because those were both from the Dallas 8, the yardage is the same so had Ballard held on for 6 it would have been the same 100.3

Manningham's drop would have been a 24 yard TD, not 8 yards.

What would the rating be if both Ballard and Manningham made their catches?

Weygand
12-15-2011, 02:51 PM
QBR and any other rating system is all geared for fantasy football junkies. Stats win games with that group.</P>


All you fans of real football have to do is watch games to know who are the good QBs.

I'd like to think I am a fan of real football and I think the QB rating does exactly what it's meant to do..provide an, all things considered, objective method to grading the performance of the QB in a game based on certain data.


Eli is far ahead of Romo IMO when it comes to be a good NFL QB. I am not an ELi homer and certainly know there are handful of QBs that can and do perform better than Eli on a regular basis.

Such as?


Eli has had a pick* in almost every game.......Above and beyond what he is doing that is good he needs to STOP the picks. His fault or not the picks need to STOP. They are putting the team behind the curve in each game.

I don't think anyone is going to argue against a reduction in interceptions but you will probably not get much agreement that tipped passes are his fault.


Dallas lost because their defense sucked that night. The Giants, if they lost, would have been because of the defense and the 7 added from the pick. </P>

Not to be too pointed but what does that have to do with the QBR comparison?

Weygand
12-15-2011, 02:57 PM
Manningham's drop would have been a 24 yard TD, not 8 yards.

My bad. Adding 16 yards to my earlier calculation brings it to a 101.7;


What would the rating be if both Ballard and Manningham made their catches?

111.3

I'm getting the stats from the NFL Gamebook (http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/55370/DAL_Gamebook.pdf)

burier
12-15-2011, 02:58 PM
I realize that one day soon Eli is going to get exactly the respect he deserves....and then what will we do?

Weygand
12-15-2011, 02:59 PM
I realize that one day soon Eli is going to get exactly the respect he deserves....and then what will we do?

How is his QB rating disrepectful?

MattMeyerBud
12-15-2011, 04:48 PM
Eli is ranked #9 in the league this year in total QBR... Matt Hasselbeck, Toby Romo and Matt Ryan are ahead of him just to name a few..

He was also ranked outside of the just 9 in total QBR in week 14 in one of the most incredibly clutch performances in recent memory... Guys like Sanchez and Flacco are ahead lol

To put the numbers in perspective, he is the only other player besides Dan Marino to throw for 400 yds in 1 YEAR.. HE already tied the NFLs 4th quarter TD record in a season with 14. And he's on pace to throw for just under 5000 yards...

QBR is a crock of ****

i loved their concept of it but it really hasn't worked out. I give em kudos for trying

giantman8493
12-15-2011, 04:55 PM
Eli is ranked #9 in the league this year in total QBR... Matt Hasselbeck, Toby Romo and Matt Ryan are ahead of him just to name a few..

He was also ranked outside of the just 9 in total QBR in week 14 in one of the most incredibly clutch performances in recent memory... Guys like Sanchez and Flacco are ahead lol

To put the numbers in perspective, he is the only other player besides Dan Marino to throw for 400 yds in 1 YEAR.. HE already tied the NFLs 4th quarter TD record in a season with 14. And he's on pace to throw for just under 5000 yards...

QBR is a crock of ****Actually,..... Eli is on pace for just OVER 5000 yards passing. 5,052 to be exact. He has a shot to break the record. not that it would matters because three others will break the record as well.

giantman8493
12-15-2011, 04:56 PM
Eli is ranked #9 in the league this year in total QBR... Matt Hasselbeck, Toby Romo and Matt Ryan are ahead of him just to name a few..

He was also ranked outside of the just 9 in total QBR in week 14 in one of the most incredibly clutch performances in recent memory... Guys like Sanchez and Flacco are ahead lol

To put the numbers in perspective, he is the only other player besides Dan Marino to throw for 400 yds in 1 YEAR.. HE already tied the NFLs 4th quarter TD record in a season with 14. And he's on pace to throw for just under 5000 yards...

QBR is a crock of ****Actually,..... Eli is on pace for just OVER 5000 yards passing. 5,052 to be exact. He has a shot to break the record. not that it would matters because three others will break the record as well.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/milestone?icampaign=milestone_Nav

BlueBlooded1979
12-15-2011, 05:04 PM
Eli is ranked #9 in the league this year in total QBR... Matt Hasselbeck, Toby Romo and Matt Ryan are ahead of him just to name a few..

He was also ranked outside of the just 9 in total QBR in week 14 in one of the most incredibly clutch performances in recent memory... Guys like Sanchez and Flacco are ahead lol

<font size="6" color="#0000FF">To put the numbers in perspective, he is the only other player besides Dan Marino to throw for 400 yds in 1 YEAR.. </font> HE already tied the NFLs 4th quarter TD record in a season with 14. And he's on pace to throw for just under 5000 yards...

QBR is a crock of ****

This can't be right.


He is the only player, aside from Marino, to throw for 400+ yds 3 times in a season.

Marino did it twice. 4 times in '84 and 3 times in '86

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/sports/football/far-from-fast-giants-manning-thrives-under-pressure.html?_r=1&ref=football

FlyingTruck
12-15-2011, 05:10 PM
Eli is ranked #9 in the league this year in total QBR... Matt Hasselbeck, Toby Romo and Matt Ryan are ahead of him just to name a few..

He was also ranked outside of the just 9 in total QBR in week 14 in one of the most incredibly clutch performances in recent memory... Guys like Sanchez and Flacco are ahead lol

<font size="6" color="#0000FF">To put the numbers in perspective, he is the only other player besides Dan Marino to throw for 400 yds in 1 YEAR.. </font> HE already tied the NFLs 4th quarter TD record in a season with 14. And he's on pace to throw for just under 5000 yards...

QBR is a crock of ****

This can't be right.
It's true. Only Marino and Eli have had 3 400 yard games in one season. And honestly, Eli could get another.

JimC
12-15-2011, 05:17 PM
Eli is ranked #9 in the league this year in total QBR... Matt Hasselbeck, Toby Romo and Matt Ryan are ahead of him just to name a few..

He was also ranked outside of the just 9 in total QBR in week 14 in one of the most incredibly clutch performances in recent memory... Guys like Sanchez and Flacco are ahead lol

<font color="#0000FF" size="6">To put the numbers in perspective, he is the only other player besides Dan Marino to throw for 400 yds in 1 YEAR.. </font> HE already tied the NFLs 4th quarter TD record in a season with 14. And he's on pace to throw for just under 5000 yards...

QBR is a crock of ****

This can't be right.
It's true. Only Marino and Eli have had 3 400 yard games in one season. And honestly, Eli could get another.

Read the statement in blue again..... :)

MattMeyerBud
12-15-2011, 05:26 PM
Eli is ranked #9 in the league this year in total QBR... Matt Hasselbeck, Toby Romo and Matt Ryan are ahead of him just to name a few..

He was also ranked outside of the just 9 in total QBR in week 14 in one of the most incredibly clutch performances in recent memory... Guys like Sanchez and Flacco are ahead lol

<font color="#0000FF" size="6">To put the numbers in perspective, he is the only other player besides Dan Marino to throw for 400 yds in 1 YEAR.. </font> HE already tied the NFLs 4th quarter TD record in a season with 14. And he's on pace to throw for just under 5000 yards...

QBR is a crock of ****

This can't be right.
It's true. Only Marino and Eli have had 3 400 yard games in one season. And honestly, Eli could get another.

Read the statement in blue again..... :)


hahaha i see what u did there

but even if he wrote it right, I started double checking because I didn't believe the real stat either

GameTime
12-15-2011, 05:27 PM
QBR and any other rating system is all geared for fantasy football junkies. Stats win games with that group.</P>


All you fans of real football have to do is watch games to know who are the good QBs. I'd like to think I am a fan of real football and I think the QB rating does exactly what it's meant to do..provide an, all things considered, objective method to grading the performance of the QB in a game based on certain data.
Eli is far ahead of Romo IMO when it comes to be a good NFL QB. I am not an ELi homer and certainly know there are handful of QBs that can and do perform better than Eli on a regular basis. Such as?
Eli has had a pick in almost every game.......Above and beyond what he is doing that is good he needs to STOP the picks. His fault or not the picks need to STOP. They are putting the team behind the curve in each game. I don't think anyone is going to argue against a reduction in interceptions but you will probably not get much agreement that tipped passes are his fault.
Dallas lost because their defense sucked that night. The Giants, if they lost, would have been because of the defense and the 7 added from the pick. </P>


Not to be too pointed but what does that have to do with the QBR comparison?</P>


thanks for picking apart my post...:) My initial response was to thfact that the QBR rating is BS(post title)because Eli is fith or whatever. </P>


My point is Eli is a better QB than Romo hands down. I dont need a stat sheet or a formula to see that. I think Romo is a good QB but he doesnt have the game knowledge or the QB knowledge that Eli has and uses. He is more mobile than Eli and has good attributes but better than Eli....no way.</P>


If you would rather have Romo as the QB of the Giants then you are in the minority....big time.I know you didnt say that but I am using that to back up my point.</P>


The part about the Dallas D losing the game was answering another response about Romo blew the pass to Bryant (?) that would have iced the game. I was defending Romo.</P>


BTW....I wasnt saying a real football fan doesnt need stats I was inferring to the fact that many of the stat sheets are geared towards fantasy football freaks who use players based on stats. Wins dont mean much in fantasty land.....</P>

FBomb
12-15-2011, 05:55 PM
Wins and losses fellas......the only stats that count.

MattMeyerBud
12-15-2011, 06:10 PM
Wins and losses fellas......the only stats that count.

yea your right and that is whats wrong with the regular QB rating. Sometime it just doens't match the performance.

ESPN had the right concept, but they have to heavily tweek the formula

Weygand
12-15-2011, 06:26 PM
thanks for picking apart my post...:) My initial response was to th*fact that the QBR rating is BS(post title)*because Eli is fith or whatever.

Nothing personal...just enjoying the discussion


My point is Eli is a better QB than Romo hands down. I dont need a stat sheet or a formula to see that.

A lot of teams wish they had either.


I think Romo is a good QB but he doesnt have the game knowledge or the QB knowledge that Eli has and uses.

Pretty subjective, but since we're all Giants fans here (ostensibly) I'll go with it.


He is more mobile than Eli and has good attributes but better than Eli....no way.

So is Eli a better scrambler than Romo?


If you would rather have Romo as the QB of the Giants then you are in the minority....big time.*I know you didnt say that but I am using that to back up my point.

But again, this point the OP was making was about the QBR and compared Eli and Romo.


The part about the Dallas D losing the game was answering another response about Romo blew the pass to Bryant (?) that would have iced the game. I was defending Romo.

Yeah, I sort of wandered off topic with that too, but it was only because I was confronted with somehow making a statistical comparison something other than it was.


BTW....I wasnt saying a real football fan doesnt need stats I was inferring to the fact that many of the stat sheets are geared towards fantasy football freaks who use players based on stats. Wins dont mean much in fantasty land.....</P>.

I get my stats from NFL.com stats pages and then the game book pdf, but you're 100% right about the proliferation of FF sites, especially the Point Per Reception leagues. Not my cup of tea (anymore), but more power to them.

Wins and Losses don't necessarily count in FF but it most certainly influences it (especially when FF playoffs start in week 14)

Weygand
12-15-2011, 06:30 PM
Wins and losses fellas......the only stats that count.

Then why is Dan Marino in the hall of fame other than for being a career statistical leader?

gmen46
12-15-2011, 06:30 PM
Wins and losses fellas......the only stats that count.

yea your right and that is whats wrong with the regular QB rating. Sometime it just doens't match the performance.

ESPN had the right concept, but they have to heavily tweek the formula


But that would some extra effort.

Weygand
12-15-2011, 06:43 PM
Sometime it just doens't match the performance

How so? I'm not trying to beat a dead horse but how is the quarterback rating not an accurate snapshot of how a given QB performed in a game?

Fans will point to tipped passes resulting in interceptions but it also doesn't factor in completions where a receiver made a hell of a catch on a terrible pass that otherwise would have been an incomplete.

I also have the feeling that if Eli's were better, the knee-jerk reaction towards the QBR would be less dismissive.

Husky
12-15-2011, 06:51 PM
If some of the receivers held onto passes they should have caught, not the marginal ones he'd have a much better rating and eye popping stats. So yeah, QBR doesn't tell the whole story. Just sayin'.

MattMeyerBud
12-15-2011, 06:54 PM
Eli is ranked #9 in the league this year in total QBR... Matt Hasselbeck, Toby Romo and Matt Ryan are ahead of him just to name a few..

He was also ranked outside of the just 9 in total QBR in week 14 in one of the most incredibly clutch performances in recent memory... Guys like Sanchez and Flacco are ahead lol

To put the numbers in perspective, he is the only other player besides Dan Marino to throw for 400 yds in 1 YEAR.. HE already tied the NFLs 4th quarter TD record in a season with 14. And he's on pace to throw for just under 5000 yards...

QBR is a crock of ****

well quite Wey your right but not just because its a Giant fan thing. OBVIOUSLY Eli is having a great year and pretty much have carried us all year. I don't think its disputable that he is at least performing like a top 5 QB in this season alone. Where you want to put him in the top 5 is up to you

Any statistical ranking system that puts eli 9ths overall at this point is jaded. Any statisticaly ranking system that has Hasselback ahead of Eli, or in the top 10 at all is pretty crazy.

You can't tell me Romo is having a better year than Eli either...

I looked for the list of QBRs but I couldn't find it. It seems to not be accurate.

GameTime
12-15-2011, 06:57 PM
thanks for picking apart my post...:) My initial response was to thfact that the QBR rating is BS(post title)because Eli is fith or whatever. Nothing personal...just enjoying the discussion
My point is Eli is a better QB than Romo hands down. I dont need a stat sheet or a formula to see that. A lot of teams wish they had either.
I think Romo is a good QB but he doesnt have the game knowledge or the QB knowledge that Eli has and uses. Pretty subjective, but since we're all Giants fans here (ostensibly) I'll go with it.
<FONT color=#000080 size=4>He is more mobile than Eli and has good attributes but better than Eli....no way. So is Eli a better scrambler than Romo? </FONT>
If you would rather have Romo as the QB of the Giants then you are in the minority....big time.I know you didnt say that but I am using that to back up my point. But again, this point the OP was making was about the QBR and compared Eli and Romo.
The part about the Dallas D losing the game was answering another response about Romo blew the pass to Bryant (?) that would have iced the game. I was defending Romo. Yeah, I sort of wandered off topic with that too, but it was only because I was confronted with somehow making a statistical comparison something other than it was.
BTW....I wasnt saying a real football fan doesnt need stats I was inferring to the fact that many of the stat sheets are geared towards fantasy football freaks who use players based on stats. Wins dont mean much in fantasty land.....


</P>


. I get my stats from NFL.com stats pages and then the game book pdf, but you're 100% right about the proliferation of FF sites, especially the Point Per Reception leagues. Not my cup of tea (anymore), but more power to them. Wins and Losses don't necessarily count in FF but it most certainly influences it (especially when FF playoffs start in week 14)</P>


No way.... I said "he" (Romo) is more mobile than Eli.....hence Eli is not a better scrambler.....:)</P>

MattMeyerBud
12-15-2011, 06:59 PM
thanks for picking apart my post...:) My initial response was to thfact that the QBR rating is BS(post title)because Eli is fith or whatever. Nothing personal...just enjoying the discussion
My point is Eli is a better QB than Romo hands down. I dont need a stat sheet or a formula to see that. A lot of teams wish they had either.
I think Romo is a good QB but he doesnt have the game knowledge or the QB knowledge that Eli has and uses. Pretty subjective, but since we're all Giants fans here (ostensibly) I'll go with it.
<font color="#000080" size="4">He is more mobile than Eli and has good attributes but better than Eli....no way. So is Eli a better scrambler than Romo? </font>
If you would rather have Romo as the QB of the Giants then you are in the minority....big time.I know you didnt say that but I am using that to back up my point. But again, this point the OP was making was about the QBR and compared Eli and Romo.
The part about the Dallas D losing the game was answering another response about Romo blew the pass to Bryant (?) that would have iced the game. I was defending Romo. Yeah, I sort of wandered off topic with that too, but it was only because I was confronted with somehow making a statistical comparison something other than it was.
BTW....I wasnt saying a real football fan doesnt need stats I was inferring to the fact that many of the stat sheets are geared towards fantasy football freaks who use players based on stats. Wins dont mean much in fantasty land.....


</p>


. I get my stats from NFL.com stats pages and then the game book pdf, but you're 100% right about the proliferation of FF sites, especially the Point Per Reception leagues. Not my cup of tea (anymore), but more power to them. Wins and Losses don't necessarily count in FF but it most certainly influences it (especially when FF playoffs start in week 14)</p>


No way.... I said "he" (Romo) is more mobile than Eli.....hence Eli is not a better scrambler.....:)</p>

eli has the speed of a mongoose

Weygand
12-15-2011, 07:09 PM
well quite Wey your right but not just because its a Giant fan thing. OBVIOUSLY Eli is having a great year and pretty much have carried us all year.* I don't think its disputable that he is at least performing like a top 5 QB in this season alone. Where you want to put him in the top 5 is up to you.

Absolutely top tier NFL QB. No argument from me on that


Any statistical ranking system that puts eli 9ths overall at this point is jaded.

By QB rating Eli is 7th behind Roepistburger, Schaub, Romo, Brees, Brady and Rogers.


Any statisticaly ranking system that has Hasselback ahead of Eli, or in the top 10 at all is pretty crazy

I didn't see that in the NFL player passing stats table. By QB rating Eli is 7th behind Roepistburger, Schaub, Romo, Brees, Brady and Rogers. But I agree with you on anything that has Hasslebeck being ahead of Eli this season other than the career end date is probably inaccurate to say the least.


You can't tell me Romo is having a better year than Eli either...

I looked for the list of QBRs but I couldn't find it. It seems to not be accurate.


I am using the NFL stats page for player passing stats (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING)

That is already filtered to leader by QBR

Weygand
12-15-2011, 07:14 PM
eli has the speed of a mongoose


Well he's like Marino in that aspect

Weygand
12-15-2011, 07:15 PM
No way.... I said "he" (Romo) is more mobile than Eli.....hence Eli is not a better scrambler.....:)</P>

Ok...just wanted to make sure we were both on the same page, relatively speaking.

/to play devil's advocate, you could say Jamarcus was more mobile than Eli, but, heh, I would say Eli's the better scrambler.

MattMeyerBud
12-15-2011, 07:15 PM
well quite Wey your right but not just because its a Giant fan thing. OBVIOUSLY Eli is having a great year and pretty much have carried us all year. I don't think its disputable that he is at least performing like a top 5 QB in this season alone. Where you want to put him in the top 5 is up to you.

Absolutely top tier NFL QB. No argument from me on that


Any statistical ranking system that puts eli 9ths overall at this point is jaded.

By QB rating Eli is 7th behind Roepistburger, Schaub, Romo, Brees, Brady and Rogers.


Any statisticaly ranking system that has Hasselback ahead of Eli, or in the top 10 at all is pretty crazy

I didn't see that in the NFL player passing stats table. By QB rating Eli is 7th behind Roepistburger, Schaub, Romo, Brees, Brady and Rogers. But I agree with you on anything that has Hasslebeck being ahead of Eli this season other than the career end date is probably inaccurate to say the least.


You can't tell me Romo is having a better year than Eli either...

I looked for the list of QBRs but I couldn't find it. It seems to not be accurate.


I am using the NFL stats page for player passing stats (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&amp;season=2011&amp;seasonType=REG&amp; d-447263-n=1&amp;d-447263-o=2&amp;d-447263-p=1&amp;statisticCategory=PASSING&amp;conference=null&amp;d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING)

That is already filtered to leader by QBR

oh don't get me wrong, I dont like that regular QB rating either.

I appreciate what they both do and even though its less accurate, I actually really enjoy the attempt that ESPN tried to. They tried to factor everything in, it just hasn't worked out.

YEa your using the regular QB rating, I thought the OP was referring to the QBR thing that ESPN tried doing

Weygand
12-15-2011, 07:22 PM
YEa your using the regular QB rating, I thought the OP was referring to the QBR thing that ESPN tried doing


Oh..oooh...pardon my assumption...I thought the OP was referring to the NFL QBR on the NFL stats page. My bad.

/on that note, time to pack up and head for home to enjoy the Cowboy loss

MattMeyerBud
12-15-2011, 07:54 PM
YEa your using the regular QB rating, I thought the OP was referring to the QBR thing that ESPN tried doing


Oh..oooh...pardon my assumption...I thought the OP was referring to the NFL QBR on the NFL stats page. My bad.

/on that note, time to pack up and head for home to enjoy the Cowboy loss

cowboys play sat lol.... man ur gonna be disappointed when u get home haha

GameTime
12-15-2011, 08:10 PM
No way.... I said "he" (Romo) is more mobile than Eli.....hence Eli is not a better scrambler.....:)


</P>


Ok...just wanted to make sure we were both on the same page, relatively speaking. /to play devil's advocate, you could say Jamarcus was more mobile than Eli, but, heh, I would say Eli's the better scrambler.</P>


Eli moves well in the pocket for sure but I wouldn't call him a scrambler....lol. With that said he has made quite a few passes on the run this season. more than usual. Very unEli like....lol</P>


In a thread a while back that was regarding Eli's running skills, or lack there of, one poster said:...</P>


"there is nothing wrong with Eli's left foot when running...the problem is his other left foot"....</P>


thought that was very funny......</P>


</P>

MattMeyerBud
12-15-2011, 08:13 PM
No way.... I said "he" (Romo) is more mobile than Eli.....hence Eli is not a better scrambler.....:)


</p>


Ok...just wanted to make sure we were both on the same page, relatively speaking. /to play devil's advocate, you could say Jamarcus was more mobile than Eli, but, heh, I would say Eli's the better scrambler.</p>


Eli moves well in the pocket for sure but I wouldn't call him a scrambler....lol. With that said he has made quite a few passes on the run this season. more than usual. Very unEli like....lol</p>


In a thread a while back that was regarding Eli's running skills, or lack there of, one poster said:...</p>


"there is nothing wrong with Eli's left foot when running...the problem is his other left foot"....</p>


thought that was very funny......</p>


</p>

this is actually a debate that me and moorehead have all the time. He says that scrambling is very un-eli like. I say the difference is that he hasn't HAD to make those throws on the run. I think the lines regression is why we never saw it in past year

GameTime
12-15-2011, 08:22 PM
No way.... I said "he" (Romo) is more mobile than Eli.....hence Eli is not a better scrambler.....:)


</P>


Ok...just wanted to make sure we were both on the same page, relatively speaking. /to play devil's advocate, you could say Jamarcus was more mobile than Eli, but, heh, I would say Eli's the better scrambler.</P>


Eli moves well in the pocket for sure but I wouldn't call him a scrambler....lol. With that said he has made quite a few passes on the run this season. more than usual. Very unEli like....lol</P>


In a thread a while back that was regarding Eli's running skills, or lack there of, one poster said:...</P>


"there is nothing wrong with Eli's left foot when running...the problem is his other left foot"....</P>


thought that was very funny......</P>


</P>




this is actually a debate that me and moorehead have all the time. He says that scrambling is very un-eli like. I say the difference is that he hasn't HAD to make those throws on the run. I think the lines regression is why we never saw it in past year
</P>


yeah...I dont know. Seems the whole package is on target this season. I see what you are saying but there were times he had to throw on the run and it didnt look very good....in the past. </P>


Just dig what he is doing this year. But please....no more lefty throws....:)</P>

Drez
12-15-2011, 08:22 PM
Wins and losses fellas......the only stats that count. Then why is Dan Marino in the hall of fame other than for being a career statistical leader?</P>


Because he's won thethird most games of any QB ever.</P>

FBomb
12-15-2011, 08:57 PM
Wins and losses fellas......the only stats that count. Then why is Dan Marino in the hall of fame other than for being a career statistical leader?</P>


Who cares? I know I don't. Marino never won a SB. You don't think Dan would rather have the bling?</P>


Wins and losses......the rest is for stat *****s and fantasy geeks.</P>

gmen0820
12-15-2011, 09:03 PM
Lol but people were waving around Eli being 4th in QBR earlier in the year. The way this stat is being discredited in here, were I to try to make these claims, I would have been called every name in the book. That's why most posters are hypocrites and jokes.

FBomb
12-15-2011, 09:11 PM
Lol but people were waving around Eli being 4th in QBR earlier in the year. The way this stat is being discredited in here, were I to try to make these claims, I would have been called every name in the book. That's why most posters are hypocrites and jokes.</P>


Nope....never gave a **** about lists or rankings and never understood why people get so hung up on it.</P>

GameTime
12-15-2011, 10:10 PM
Lol but people were waving around Eli being 4th in QBR earlier in the year. The way this stat is being discredited in here, were I to try to make these claims, I would have been called every name in the book. That's why most posters are hypocrites and jokes. thats why many times stats dont mean ****...</P>


Romo had a 141 rating the other night with a loss...</P>


No need for you to be too much a victim.......most posters on this board are not hypocrits or jokes as you say....</P>

gmen0820
12-15-2011, 10:10 PM
Lol but people were waving around Eli being 4th in QBR earlier in the year. The way this stat is being discredited in here, were I to try to make these claims, I would have been called every name in the book. That's why most posters are hypocrites and jokes.</P>


Nope....never gave a **** about lists or rankings and never understood why people get so hung up on it.</P>It's not getting hung up on it, it's changing your obsession to suit Eli. If we start a season 0-3 and Eli has the most yards, let's say 1000, in the league every hypocrite poster on here will say that passing yards is how to judge a QB. Then Eli, 5 games later has 1500 yards, 16th in the league for the sake of the example, the same hypocrites would call it foolish to judge a QB by yards.

I really don't know how you've ever standed on this issue, but this wasn't aimed at you, but the fact that you're not getting a huge wave of posters flaming you for your posts only proves how things have changed because, like I said, if I tried to discredit the stat 7 weeks ago, I'd be called every name in the book.

gmen0820
12-15-2011, 10:12 PM
Lol but people were waving around Eli being 4th in QBR earlier in the year. The way this stat is being discredited in here, were I to try to make these claims, I would have been called every name in the book. That's why most posters are hypocrites and jokes. thats why many times stats dont mean ****...</P>


Romo had a 141 rating the other night with a loss...</P>


No need for you to be too much a victim.......most posters on this board are not hypocrits or jokes as you say....</P>A good number of posters*

Weygand
12-16-2011, 12:32 AM
cowboys play sat lol.... man ur gonna be disappointed when u get home haha


No kidding. I felt like the kid what finds coal in his stocking on Christmas morning or how I felt when Tiki retired....

Weygand
12-16-2011, 12:42 AM
Who cares? I know I don't. Marino never won a SB. You don't think Dan would rather have the bling?

I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were just posting your disregard of statistics in a thread discussing statistics.




Wins and losses......the rest is for stat *****s and fantasy geeks.</p>

I guess we differ on what qualifies for a pejorative.

Weygand
12-16-2011, 12:45 AM
Wins and losses fellas......the only stats that count. Then why is Dan Marino in the hall of fame other than for being a career statistical leader?</p>


Because he's won thethird most games of any QB ever.</p>

Certainly in part, but I would argue it's more because of his career passing stats.

Weygand
12-16-2011, 12:48 AM
No way.... I said "he" (Romo) is more mobile than Eli.....hence Eli is not a better scrambler.....:)


</p>


Ok...just wanted to make sure we were both on the same page, relatively speaking. /to play devil's advocate, you could say Jamarcus was more mobile than Eli, but, heh, I would say Eli's the better scrambler.</p>


Eli moves well in the pocket for sure but I wouldn't call him a scrambler....lol. With that said he has made quite a few passes on the run this season. more than usual. Very unEli like....lol</p>


In a thread a while back that was regarding Eli's running skills, or lack there of, one poster said:...</p>


"there is nothing wrong with Eli's left foot when running...the problem is his other left foot"....</p>


thought that was very funny......</p>


</p>

this is actually a debate that me and moorehead have all the time. He says that scrambling is very un-eli like. I say the difference is that he hasn't HAD to make those throws on the run. I think the lines regression is why we never saw it in past year


Could be a combination of both; but really I was trying to kick Jamarcus when he's down because Eli scrambles like he has 2 left prosthetics

Weygand
12-16-2011, 12:53 AM
Romo had a 141 rating the other night with a loss...

Wins and Losses aren't factored into individual statistics.

That's like saying Eric ****erson sucked because the Rams never won a ring when he was on the team.

Weygand
12-16-2011, 12:54 AM
Nope....never gave a **** about lists or rankings and never understood why people get so hung up on it.

Because they enjoy it?

ajd121
12-16-2011, 01:27 AM
I don't see how it is possible that Eli had a better total QBR last year than this year, this stat is obviously VERY flawed.

2010 Total QBR
Tom Brady -- 76.0 Peyton Manning -- 69.5 (his 77.2 since 2008 easily outpaces Brady, No. 2 with a score of 69.5 over that span) Matt Ryan -- 68.6 Aaron Rodgers -- 67.9 (he was up to 86 in the playoffs) Michael Vick -- 66.6 (he received a 99.8 for that six-TD MNF gem at Washington in 2010, and his legs do factor into QBR) Drew Brees -- 65.9 Eli Manning -- 64.3 Josh Freeman -- 63.5 Philip Rivers -- 63.2 Ben Roethlisberger -- 59.8

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 08:20 AM
Wins and losses fellas......the only stats that count. Then why is Dan Marino in the hall of fame other than for being a career statistical leader?</p>


Who cares? I know I don't. Marino never won a SB. You don't think Dan would rather have the bling?</p>


Wins and losses......the rest is for stat *****s and<font size="6"> fantasy geeks.</font></p>

say it to my face

http://obviouslyajoke.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/nerd.jpg

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 08:21 AM
Lol but people were waving around Eli being 4th in QBR earlier in the year. The way this stat is being discredited in here, were I to try to make these claims, I would have been called every name in the book. That's why most posters are hypocrites and jokes.

im sure people did, but that doesn't mean everybody did

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 08:22 AM
cowboys play sat lol.... man ur gonna be disappointed when u get home haha


No kidding. I felt like the kid what finds coal in his stocking on Christmas morning or how I felt when Tiki retired....



lol

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 08:23 AM
No way.... I said "he" (Romo) is more mobile than Eli.....hence Eli is not a better scrambler.....:)


</p>


Ok...just wanted to make sure we were both on the same page, relatively speaking. /to play devil's advocate, you could say Jamarcus was more mobile than Eli, but, heh, I would say Eli's the better scrambler.</p>


Eli moves well in the pocket for sure but I wouldn't call him a scrambler....lol. With that said he has made quite a few passes on the run this season. more than usual. Very unEli like....lol</p>


In a thread a while back that was regarding Eli's running skills, or lack there of, one poster said:...</p>


"there is nothing wrong with Eli's left foot when running...the problem is his other left foot"....</p>


thought that was very funny......</p>


</p>

this is actually a debate that me and moorehead have all the time. He says that scrambling is very un-eli like. I say the difference is that he hasn't HAD to make those throws on the run. I think the lines regression is why we never saw it in past year


Could be a combination of both; but really I was trying to kick Jamarcus when he's down because Eli scrambles like he has 2 left prosthetics


bite your tongue!

Eli is the Ducati of nfl qb mobility

shotcalla39
01-24-2012, 10:52 PM
Bump... I think ESPN was reaching for straws with this stat... I like the traditional passer rating much better... This is supposed to take into account the clutch factor and Eli had 7 4th quarter comebacks and broke the record for 4th quarter touchdowns and his Qbr is not good... ESPN failed with this stat... I liked their ideas here but it didn't work... Watch how everyone forgets this stat in a couple years it will just disappear

EliTE
01-25-2012, 12:01 AM
qbr a subjective stat that has no real guidelines therefore it can't be taken seriously. i remember romo had a good QBR for the lions game, yea the one where his team was up 3+ scores and he threw 2 pick sixes, and another pick to lose the game.

QBR is a joke. it sounded good from an idea standpoint, but like i said it is a completely subjective stat and therefore can't be taken seriously.

lawl
01-25-2012, 12:12 AM
Wins and losses fellas......the only stats that count. Then why is Dan Marino in the hall of fame other than for being a career statistical leader?</P>


Who cares?* I know I don't.* Marino never won a SB.* You don't think Dan would rather have the bling?</P>


Wins and losses......the rest is for stat *****s and fantasy geeks.</P>

Would you rather have had mark rypien's career or Dan marino's career?

The HOF is much more prestigious and meaningful than a SB ring. How many guys have a ring? How many are in the hall?

giantsfan420
01-25-2012, 12:16 AM
Wins and losses fellas......the only stats that count. Then why is Dan Marino in the hall of fame other than for being a career statistical leader?</P>


Who cares?* I know I don't.* Marino never won a SB.* You don't think Dan would rather have the bling?</P>


Wins and losses......the rest is for stat *****s and fantasy geeks.</P>

Would you rather have had mark rypien's career or Dan marino's career?

The HOF is much more prestigious and meaningful than a SB ring. How many guys have a ring? How many are in the hall?

hearing marino talk about it every now and then, yes i do believe marino would glady give up a lot of his statistical achievements for a ring. the hall of fame is a great thing, but every player wants the ring bc the ring means essentially the same thing as the HOF, that u were the best.

and if it was my choice, and the choices were eli had a career like marino's and no SB wins or a career like rypien but a few sb wins, i'd def. and assume eli would too take the sb win career

bflo23
01-25-2012, 12:26 AM
Eli is ranked #9 in the league this year in total QBR... Matt Hasselbeck, Toby Romo and Matt Ryan are ahead of him just to name a few..

He was also ranked outside of the just 9 in total QBR in week 14 in one of the most incredibly clutch performances in recent memory... Guys like Sanchez and Flacco are ahead lol

To put the numbers in perspective, he is the only other player besides Dan Marino to throw for 400 yds in 1 YEAR.. HE already tied the NFLs 4th quarter TD record in a season with 14. And he's on pace to throw for just under 5000 yards...

QBR is a crock of ****

I see Eli Manning having a 92.9 QBRat on ESPN/Yahoo and that is the 7th ranked in the NFL. It is just another stat but it doesn't necessarily prove who is better because people have to consider other things like domes, weather conditions, difficulty of schedule, wins, clutchness, etc. It is a lot easier throwing in the perfect conditions like in a dome vs a weak schedule.