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View Full Version : We need to put our complete trust in Eli and steup the run with the pass for a change



NYG4lifeNYK
09-06-2012, 11:15 PM
Running the ball simply is not working.

You know what is? Throwing the ball.. and we have one of the best QB's to do that with.

The reason we made the playoffs last season is because Eli made magic with the football, not our RB's.


..Yet we continue to put Eli and our offense in these impossible situations every single drive... Bradshaw stuffed for no gain, Bradshaw gets bottled up in the backfield loses yardage... now it's 3rd and long... 3rd and 10, 3rd and 7, 3rd and 6...


Now the defense knows we're going to pass and we have to make an incredible play, whereas if we passed to begin with I'm sure we would pick up many more 1st downs and be in a lot less 3rd and long situations.

Maybe instead of running hit Hynoski or whoever for a quick pass and work the run game with short passes.

or..


Pass, pass, pass so they empty the box and we can break off a nice run. Keep the defense honest. Obviously running the football to set up the pass isn't working so why not pass the football to set up the run?


Very very frustrating.

The Packers, Lions, patriots and other teams don't have strong running games so they pass the football and they are very effective.



I'm not saying to abandon the run completely but running into a brick wall is seriously hampering our rhythm and production.

NYG4lifeNYK
09-06-2012, 11:25 PM
Just found this little nugget....



10 times the Giants tried to run on first down. 8 of those runs resulted in 15 total yards.

The other two were a 5 yard run and the 10 yard touchdown.

When you have eight 2nd downs with 7 yards or longer to go, it's that much harder on the QB.

wow...

BillTheGreek
09-06-2012, 11:45 PM
Thats what it was 3 AND OUT ! we need more PASSING , and LESS Running thru the middle of the line. ! If you need the running backs to do their part, then THROW the ball to the running backs then let them run. TRY IT ! i BET YOU, IT WILL WORK ! IT WORKS FOR OTHER NFL TEAMS.....................NO MORE 3 AND OUT !

NYG4lifeNYK
09-06-2012, 11:49 PM
I believe once David Wilson settles into this offense our running game will be much better. He's so dynamic as a runner and receiver. SPEED allows you to do so many things....

giantsfan420
09-07-2012, 12:00 AM
i woulda abandoned the run wayyyyyyyyyyyyy earlier than it was last night. all it was doing was bailing the dallas d out. we were trying to keep them honest when all it was doing was making us even more 1 dimensional when we were in 100% passing situations countlessly.

the offense has gotten to used to eli doing the magic work. no qb can do it alone. if anyone woulda stepped up besides bennett, any rb or wr, we woulda won. simply bs we cant run it in from the 2. we lost 4 yds on those 2 goaline runs...digusting.

i would honeslty consider utilizing swing passes as the run game...or have JR call each lineman into his office and tell them that they are not earning their pay, and they can either restructure their contracts to 1/2 their worth or be cut, their choice. start messing with their money, they'll start blowing dl up

NYG4lifeNYK
09-07-2012, 01:07 AM
i woulda abandoned the run wayyyyyyyyyyyyy earlier than it was last night. all it was doing was bailing the dallas d out. we were trying to keep them honest when all it was doing was making us even more 1 dimensional when we were in 100% passing situations countlessly.

the offense has gotten to used to eli doing the magic work. no qb can do it alone. if anyone woulda stepped up besides bennett, any rb or wr, we woulda won. simply bs we cant run it in from the 2. we lost 4 yds on those 2 goaline runs...digusting.

i would honeslty consider utilizing swing passes as the run game...or have JR call each lineman into his office and tell them that they are not earning their pay, and they can either restructure their contracts to 1/2 their worth or be cut, their choice. start messing with their money, they'll start blowing dl up

That's just it.

We try not to be one dimensional by running the football but in essence we end up being even more one dimensional.

We can't keep this lack of production up.

Hessian
09-07-2012, 01:13 AM
The defense needs to match the offense in production. I don't feel like they did game one, no one can argue the oline's lack of effectiveness game 1 but thats what it was, game one. We need some time to work things out, I have always slated the 6th week as your measuring stick and I think it holds true.

Eliscruzzz
09-07-2012, 01:22 AM
Dallas had the Ball for 32 min our defense was winded if the offense did their part we would've won the game all those 3 and outs hurt us because our secondary was banged up and we needed to score to keep Romo off the field.....the defense held them to 7 points by halftime.

TheBookOfEli
09-07-2012, 03:02 AM
That's what i have been saying. This league has been changing for some time yet we still have that run first mentality. We have a QB that nearly passed for 5 freaking thousand yards last season yet we don't utilize him often. Everytime we ran the ball against Dallas, i would bang my fist against the elbow bar.

Eli IMO is the best QB in the game. Let Eli THROW THE DAMN BALL!

Harooni
09-07-2012, 04:25 AM
We did do that, we passed first down . and we can't abandon the run, what are some of you talking about???



first drive 1st qtr

1st down at NYG16 14:56 Eli Manning incomplete pass to the left intended for Hakeem Nicks.
2nd down at NYG16 14:49 Eli Manning pass to the middle to Victor Cruz for 5 yards to the NYG21. Tackled by Sean Lee.
3rd down at NYG21 14:05 Eli Manning incomplete pass to the middle intended for Victor Cruz.
4th down at NYG21 13:58 Steve Weatherford punts for 56 yards to Dal23. Dez Bryant return for 1 yard to Dal24. Tackled by Zak DeOssie.

3rd drive

1st down at NYG37 2:12 Eli Manning pass to the right to Hakeem Nicks for 10 yards to the NYG47. Tackled by Morris Claiborne.
1st down at NYG47 1:35 Ahmad Bradshaw rush to the left for 3 yards to the 50. Tackled by Sean Lissemore and Anthony Spencer.
2nd down at 50 0:58 Ahmad Bradshaw rush to the right for 5 yards to the Dal45. Tackled by Jason Hatcher.
3rd down at Dal45 0:21 Eli Manning pass to the right to Victor Cruz for 4 yards to the Dal41. Tackled by Orlando Scandrick.

nycsportzfan
09-07-2012, 05:56 AM
Coughlin and Gilbride are way to stubborn with the run.. THey feel they have to be able to run, yet last yr we finished last in Rushing and won the SB..lol Kinda contradicting, if u ask me..

tonyt830
09-07-2012, 06:01 AM
Running the ball simply is not working.

You know what is? Throwing the ball.. and we have one of the best QB's to do that with.

The reason we made the playoffs last season is because Eli made magic with the football, not our RB's.


..Yet we continue to put Eli and our offense in these impossible situations every single drive... Bradshaw stuffed for no gain, Bradshaw gets bottled up in the backfield loses yardage... now it's 3rd and long... 3rd and 10, 3rd and 7, 3rd and 6...


Now the defense knows we're going to pass and we have to make an incredible play, whereas if we passed to begin with I'm sure we would pick up many more 1st downs and be in a lot less 3rd and long situations.

Maybe instead of running hit Hynoski or whoever for a quick pass and work the run game with short passes.

or..


Pass, pass, pass so they empty the box and we can break off a nice run. Keep the defense honest. Obviously running the football to set up the pass isn't working so why not pass the football to set up the run?


Very very frustrating.

The Packers, Lions, patriots and other teams don't have strong running games so they pass the football and they are very effective.



I'm not saying to abandon the run completely but running into a brick wall is seriously hampering our rhythm and production.I guess we just have to realize that the NFL has become more of a pass happy league. And our O-line seems to have trouble getting a good push and opening holes for our RBs.

I think out Rbs are going to have to use their skills/vision/cutbacks to find the lanes to run through.

I hate to see Eli have to carry our offense, but right now it looks like the Giants will be using the pass to set up the runs, like most teams are doing now.

nycsportzfan
09-07-2012, 06:01 AM
We did do that, we passed first down . and we can't abandon the run, what are some of you talking about???



first drive 1st qtr

1st down at NYG16 14:56 Eli Manning incomplete pass to the left intended for Hakeem Nicks.
2nd down at NYG16 14:49 Eli Manning pass to the middle to Victor Cruz for 5 yards to the NYG21. Tackled by Sean Lee.
3rd down at NYG21 14:05 Eli Manning incomplete pass to the middle intended for Victor Cruz.
4th down at NYG21 13:58 Steve Weatherford punts for 56 yards to Dal23. Dez Bryant return for 1 yard to Dal24. Tackled by Zak DeOssie.

3rd drive

1st down at NYG37 2:12 Eli Manning pass to the right to Hakeem Nicks for 10 yards to the NYG47. Tackled by Morris Claiborne.
1st down at NYG47 1:35 Ahmad Bradshaw rush to the left for 3 yards to the 50. Tackled by Sean Lissemore and Anthony Spencer.
2nd down at 50 0:58 Ahmad Bradshaw rush to the right for 5 yards to the Dal45. Tackled by Jason Hatcher.
3rd down at Dal45 0:21 Eli Manning pass to the right to Victor Cruz for 4 yards to the Dal41. Tackled by Orlando Scandrick. ya, but half those incompletions were drops by cruz and Eli missing Hixon wide open for a TD and Nicks down teh sideline.. I'll take my chances hes not gonna be that off in most games.. U use the Pass to set up the run.. When ur teams best weapons are Eli, Nicks, and Cruz, and ur best depth is probably the pass catchers , then u pass!!!lol Its no diffrent then teams like New Orleans, Green Bay, New England are doing.. Its not a coincidence that those teams are always so good as they know what there good at and they don't try and shy away from it.

Don't u wonder why magically our run game improved later in the game? It was because we were mixing in timely runs, and usually not running back to back runs.. It was the way we should of called the game, the entire game...

Diamondring
09-07-2012, 06:04 AM
We did do that, we passed first down . and we can't abandon the run, what are some of you talking about???



first drive 1st qtr

1st down at NYG16 14:56 Eli Manning incomplete pass to the left intended for Hakeem Nicks.
2nd down at NYG16 14:49 Eli Manning pass to the middle to Victor Cruz for 5 yards to the NYG21. Tackled by Sean Lee.
3rd down at NYG21 14:05 Eli Manning incomplete pass to the middle intended for Victor Cruz.
4th down at NYG21 13:58 Steve Weatherford punts for 56 yards to Dal23. Dez Bryant return for 1 yard to Dal24. Tackled by Zak DeOssie.

3rd drive

1st down at NYG37 2:12 Eli Manning pass to the right to Hakeem Nicks for 10 yards to the NYG47. Tackled by Morris Claiborne.
1st down at NYG47 1:35 Ahmad Bradshaw rush to the left for 3 yards to the 50. Tackled by Sean Lissemore and Anthony Spencer.
2nd down at 50 0:58 Ahmad Bradshaw rush to the right for 5 yards to the Dal45. Tackled by Jason Hatcher.
3rd down at Dal45 0:21 Eli Manning pass to the right to Victor Cruz for 4 yards to the Dal41. Tackled by Orlando Scandrick.We can abandon the run. There are different types of offenses and the Giants is more of a passing type offense now. That is what we should be doing passing the ball and throw runs here and there. Maybe in the last part of the game, the Giants can run out the clock.

Captain Chaos
09-07-2012, 06:46 AM
I think abandoning the run is a flawed strategy. Yes the Giants can be a pass heavy offense but you still have to run the ball to be successful, look at last year (we were 9-7).

giantsfam04
09-07-2012, 07:04 AM
I dont think we need to abandon the run, what I think we should do is use the pass to set the run up. Getting defenses to get the extra man out of the box I think would help the run game.

miked1958
09-07-2012, 07:11 AM
I believe once David Wilson settles into this offense our running game will be much better. He's so dynamic as a runner and receiver. SPEED allows you to do so many things....since the OLine is not blocking to well we need to use that to our advantage. Let those guys come through and commit to try and sack eli. then have him just dump it over their heads on short checkdowns to Wilson, AB, Henry or even the WRs on quick little slants. We can get HUGE gains cause the OLINE that just let the Rusher through will now be downfield blocking the LBers on the Screen.

GCGiant
09-07-2012, 07:15 AM
I don't think I'll ever understand why they ran the ball on 1st and 2nd down after the pick. We needed 7 right there, and not getting it probably was the difference in the game. We let Romo off the hook and he took advantage of that.

Edit- As Boley was running and it looked like he might score, somehow I knew that if he didn't get in we would end up kicking a FG...or maybe even worse.

bg79
09-07-2012, 08:41 AM
Wholeheartedly agree. This has been something driving me nuts as it's been shown in recent years that a running game is completely unnecessary for a successful team. I saw a graphic that showed the last 4 or so years involved the team with the worst rushing record being in the superbowl. I don't know how much more evidence you need to be shown that the run simply is not nearly as important as people think. We could be doing short passes and screens to supplement or replace the runs but by in large we should be putting the ball in Eli's hands to determine whether we go 3 and out or not. Another thing... if you're going to run don't make it the most blatantly stupid obvious situation like it was after that boley interception. No freaking WR's on the field, just an obvious run that was obvious it was going to fail. I don't know about you but when I see opposing teams running the ball against us I am relieved because it just strikes me more as a waste of a down than a truly effective strategy. When they take to the air is when we typically get screwed as was clearly evident in the Cowboys game. They abandoned their run which was failing and low and behold they got a 2 score lead on us before we decide to get our heads out of our behinds and follow suit by abandoning the run.

Ever wonder why Eli has so many 4th quarter comeback victories? You think it's coincidence that it's also usually the time when our coaching staff finally abandons the run and lets Eli control the offense? It just drives me nuts every time we essentially waste 3/4's of the game doing inefficient crap that rarely works and don't start getting real till the game is almost out of reach.

dezzzR
09-07-2012, 10:06 AM
I dont think the giants need to run less, they need to be smarter about when to run the ball. Let the passing game set up the running game, just like the drive Bradshaw scored his td on.

Drez
09-07-2012, 10:12 AM
Only 35% of our offensive plays were runs.

Toadofsteel
09-07-2012, 10:14 AM
I dont think the giants need to run less, they need to be smarter about when to run the ball. Let the passing game set up the running game, just like the drive Bradshaw scored his td on.

Exactly. I'm not advocating abandoning the run either, just advocating throwing out the idea of run-run-pass... Throw more on 1st and 2nd, get some 1st conversions, and then when the defense empties the box is when you run the ball...

bklyn1028
09-07-2012, 11:00 AM
I think the consensus is right. NOT to abandon the run, but it appears we've become (or for all appearances) are a passing team. And that isn't to say it's bad. The Giants are a run first ground and pound team. HOWEVER, things change. Our run game isn't working, whether it's the Oline, or the back, who cares, it isn't running. Unfortunately (or fortunately) we aren't the "run to set up the play action", it's become the reverse. I understand Coughlin wants to ground it out, that is the Giant's way....but sometimes you have to go with the flow....and right now, we have an excellent....EXCELLENT passing team and we should capitalize on it.

Eliscruzzz
09-07-2012, 11:04 AM
We did do that, we passed first down . and we can't abandon the run, what are some of you talking about???



first drive 1st qtr

1st down at NYG16 14:56 Eli Manning incomplete pass to the left intended for Hakeem Nicks.
2nd down at NYG16 14:49 Eli Manning pass to the middle to Victor Cruz for 5 yards to the NYG21. Tackled by Sean Lee.
3rd down at NYG21 14:05 Eli Manning incomplete pass to the middle intended for Victor Cruz.
4th down at NYG21 13:58 Steve Weatherford punts for 56 yards to Dal23. Dez Bryant return for 1 yard to Dal24. Tackled by Zak DeOssie.

3rd drive

1st down at NYG37 2:12 Eli Manning pass to the right to Hakeem Nicks for 10 yards to the NYG47. Tackled by Morris Claiborne.
1st down at NYG47 1:35 Ahmad Bradshaw rush to the left for 3 yards to the 50. Tackled by Sean Lissemore and Anthony Spencer.
2nd down at 50 0:58 Ahmad Bradshaw rush to the right for 5 yards to the Dal45. Tackled by Jason Hatcher.
3rd down at Dal45 0:21 Eli Manning pass to the right to Victor Cruz for 4 yards to the Dal41. Tackled by Orlando Scandrick.you might as well list all the drives instead of just two can't take you serious until you do.

Eliscruzzz
09-07-2012, 11:05 AM
Only 35% of our offensive plays were runs. Yeah cause we were behind had to abandon it then had no choice.

Harooni
09-07-2012, 11:09 AM
you might as well list all the drives instead of just two can't take you serious until you do. You don't need to take me seriously, it is the real play by play, not an opinion.

out of the first 3 drives we used the pass twice to set up the run. my point was that we did do just that, not that we did it every drive. The problem was the execution. you have to mix it up run and pass.

JB456
09-07-2012, 11:12 AM
Yeah cause we were behind had to abandon it then had no choice.

Also, when the Giants were forced to pass more, they scored.

Eliscruzzz
09-07-2012, 11:15 AM
You don't need to take me seriously, it is the real play by play, not an opinion.

out of the first 3 drives we used the pass twice to set up the run. my point was that we did do just that, not that we did it every drive. The problem was the execution. you have to mix it up run and pass. I just look it up you were right we defintitly threw the ball more then I thought but I think what he's talking about is when you run the ball like the goal line situation and the next series after that it just seem to me why not try a fade to bennet and let him jump for after the Bradshaw run that went back a 1yrd or so.

Eliscruzzz
09-07-2012, 11:22 AM
Also, when the Giants were forced to pass more, they scored. They playing calling was atrocious it was either pass, pass, pass, or run, run ,pass. It was a joke we are the only team that has an elite QB and don't let him dominate the game. I think Eli has earned that right to pass whenever he wants. I mean call some screens or something it seems like Eli is always has to throw it deep doesn't it. It's sad the situation we put our qb in. The problem is they think "we got Eli he'll make a comeback "you can't rely on that all the time let's spread teams the f*** and burn teams secondary play to our strengths the qb and wr and keep away from our weakness the o-line.

bklyn1028
09-07-2012, 11:28 AM
I thought Eli called his own plays, I do know he audibles whenever he wants. Face it, the Dallas secondary was on fire Wed night, period. That rookie Claiborne was lucky, If the kid has the talent to be a shutdown corner, it sure as hell won't come out in the FIRST game of his NFL career. He was in the right place the right time all night.

Brandon Carr is Brandon Carr, the kid's an excellent corner. Dallas had a good game, everything went their way.

We're fine.

Now if we lose to the Bucs, then i'll begin to seriously worry.

Eliscruzzz
09-07-2012, 11:32 AM
I thought Eli called his own plays, I do know he audibles whenever he wants. Face it, the Dallas secondary was on fire Wed night, period. That rookie Claiborne was lucky, If the kid has the talent to be a shutdown corner, it sure as hell won't come out in the FIRST game of his NFL career. He was in the right place the right time all night.

Brandon Carr is Brandon Carr, the kid's an excellent corner. Dallas had a good game, everything went their way.

We're fine.

Now if we lose to the Bucs, then i'll begin to seriously worry.Yeah to me Claiborne just looks like he's to small a healthy Nicks breaks those tackles I think Carr is overrated too Cruz dropped 3 passes and still had 58 yards so to me we played like sh** and still almost tied the game what does that say about Dallas. Can't wait to see them again.

giantsfan420
09-07-2012, 11:33 AM
i have said this now for years. eli has spoiled not only us the fans, but in a way, his teammates. they even say it themselves in a way with the "we know we're gonna win when eli has the ball and we need to score..." yeah great 8 gw comebacks last year of our 13 wins...BUT COME ON. no qb can do it himself, not 1. bennett played nicely imho, but cruz with those drive killins drops, the OL with their inability to set the edge or get any push...how many of us knew when we came out on goal line on their 2, it was gonna be run run pass attempt fg? I know I worried about that. Its like the players know they have eli for 3rd downs and 4th qrts, and they have an issue with being flat up until that point.
that first half, we played way better imho. the fumbles, the drops, the horrid run gam...shoulda been up two scores by halftime...instead, again, it was "put it all on eli"...the run game just isnt helping the qb or offense and that is adding wayyyy too much pressure on the pass game and defense.

but, I have 100% faith and confidence this will be one of our poorer performances of the year, and that this will wake the rest of the team up and we go on a nice win streak.

giantsfan420
09-07-2012, 11:36 AM
Yeah to me Claiborne just looks like he's to small a healthy Nicks breaks those tackles I think Carr is overrated too Cruz dropped 3 passes and still had 58 yards so to me we played like sh** and still almost tied the game what does that say about Dallas. Can't wait to see them again.

i know ntegrase recalled how i kept telling him Carr finds ways to play small when Hixon had that 40 yd reception. Carr mistimed his jump so badly, i thought Tryon swapped teams real fast. as hixon was making the catch, carr was literally like 4 ft tall bc he landed frm his mistimed leap and landed in a crouch like position. check out the hixon catch replay, carr looks like a midget.
i too am not intimidated or impressed really with their secondary. cruz shoulda had at least 9 for a hundo and a td had it not been a poor game by him w/ the drops. nicks had 4 but only on 6 targets and u could visibly see him getting the rust off...we also had to kinda guess how dallas would look on D bc of their new additions. we will be fine @ dallas id bet money on it

Eliscruzzz
09-07-2012, 11:55 AM
i know ntegrase recalled how i kept telling him Carr finds ways to play small when Hixon had that 40 yd reception. Carr mistimed his jump so badly, i thought Tryon swapped teams real fast. as hixon was making the catch, carr was literally like 4 ft tall bc he landed frm his mistimed leap and landed in a crouch like position. check out the hixon catch replay, carr looks like a midget.
i too am not intimidated or impressed really with their secondary. cruz shoulda had at least 9 for a hundo and a td had it not been a poor game by him w/ the drops. nicks had 4 but only on 6 targets and u could visibly see him getting the rust off...we also had to kinda guess how dallas would look on D bc of their new additions. we will be fine @ dallas id bet money on itI know everyone thinks ntegrase is fair and honest but he is not when it comes to Carr he is not everyone is saying how great Dallas D look but really if people didn't have the case of the drops Eli would've had over 300 yrds I'm almost sure of that. it was just rust you could tell the whole game. if we played Dallas week 3 instead of 1 we would win that game. I had a Dallas fan actually tell me that Carr MC totally shut down Cruz and Nicks and that Nicks is not a top 10 WR. They all said this after 1 game it's a joke. They also said MB had a terrible game I guess they don't understand all aspects of playing TE. I wouldn't be surprised if Russel Wilson tears their secondary apart next week and wins that game.

BillTheGreek
09-07-2012, 05:20 PM
i dont think the giants need to run less, they need to be smarter about when to run the ball. Let the passing game set up the running game, just like the drive bradshaw scored his td on.

your right ! That's what i'm talking about ! Go giants !

eLi MusT gO dEEp
09-07-2012, 05:28 PM
It's always something with this team and its game planning. The run blocking and run game aren't as strong anymore, yet we're running the ball near the goal line and in the red zone like this is you know; Earth Wind and Fire or Thunder and Lightning 2k7. We don't have that anymore - yet.

I'm not getting down on Opening Night, as much of a bummer as it was but I mean c'mon if this keeps up with the running game looking so bad then we really have to think about making a change by Week 4. I wouldn't mind seeing Eli go out there with 4/5 WRs, 2 TEs, no backs. For once in my life I think it's time we AIR IT OUT.

And it's not like the run blocking and running game was great last year so this is a problem dating back a season...

giantsfan420
09-07-2012, 05:59 PM
I know everyone thinks ntegrase is fair and honest but he is not when it comes to Carr he is not everyone is saying how great Dallas D look but really if people didn't have the case of the drops Eli would've had over 300 yrds I'm almost sure of that. it was just rust you could tell the whole game. if we played Dallas week 3 instead of 1 we would win that game. I had a Dallas fan actually tell me that Carr MC totally shut down Cruz and Nicks and that Nicks is not a top 10 WR. They all said this after 1 game it's a joke. They also said MB had a terrible game I guess they don't understand all aspects of playing TE. I wouldn't be surprised if Russel Wilson tears their secondary apart next week and wins that game.
oh w/o a doubt bc u have to remember, those 3 drops by cruz alone cost us an additional set of downs (which could end up being a TD scoring drive). But if u just go by those dropped passes to cruz and bennett, eli's right at 300 yds. he was 21-31 IIRC, coulda easily been 25-31, but eh. Carr and MC did look much better than their secondary last year, but still, it wasnt like they shut us down at all. Eli was still picking and choosing. drive ending drops will kill u. i agree with ur post.

BuffyBlueII
09-07-2012, 06:14 PM
How about we draft, trade and whatever else we need to do to reinforce our offensive line so that it is at least respectable. I really do not want to see a team tee off on Eli Manning again the way San Francisco 49ers did in playoffs. Heck, Dallas Cowboys were in our backfield all night virtually uncontested.