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View Full Version : If the OL and DB do not improve, expect a poor season from our Giants



Generation Eli
09-08-2012, 03:48 PM
I do not buy in to the "its just one game" and the "3 of our super bowl wins came on the heels of a 0-1 start" crap. I love my team, I will root for them even when the clock hits 0:00 and the stadium has cleared out.

However, no amount of belief will improve a players ability. When you stink, you stink. Thinking and wishing and hoping wont change that.

Going into the season many fans (as well as I) believed that OL was the number 1 concern here. I shouldn't have to wait until week 10 to say our OL stinks, because it does. Bradshaw, a Number 1 on many teams IMO, is running for his life the moment he gets the ball. Same goes for Eli. You cant expect to win when your QB is getting molested every other play. David Deihls days as a starter should have ended when last years season was over, but for some reason, the giants believe he can play.

After CWebb, we dont have anyone who can come in and be a capable starter. This division is filled with Number 2 WO who are actualy Number 1 talents on almost every other team. We cant expect to put a guy like Tryon on another teams number 2 (even if said player has a hammy issue).

Ogletree was burning Coe well before he left the game. Things got a lot worse though when he left. Tryon (IMO) isnt even worth a spot on the active roster on game days. So we shoudlnt expect anything out of him. The best we can hope for is Prince comes up good enough to limit the other teams number 2. A lot of people believe that due to his high draft status and what he did in college (which doesnt impress me), that he should be the man for the job. I dont see it. For a high draft pick, he lacks the footwork to play the position well (thats my opinion. Just look at the tape), he doesnt have the speed to keep up with most WR and with a lack of playing time, he hasnt had a chance to adjust to the WR in this league. They run routes in the NFL last I checked. This isnt your college nine/wheel route kid.

Unfortunately we have no other options so we need him to come up big and do so NOW. Our schedule and the level of competition this year wont allow us any time to rest.

So again, if the OL doesnt get a major upgrade (which it wont for many reasons) and the DB (after CWebb) dont improve, dont expect a good season from our Giants. Eli can only do so much. Thats my take and I will go on record and throw myself to the wolves now.

Captain Chaos
09-08-2012, 03:54 PM
Thank you for the statement of the obvious. However, to say that we shouldn't expect them to improve unless we do something drastic now is not likely the answer. One thing I will add, I really think Rocky Bernard did a nice job in the first half but was likely whipped by the second half, the Giants need to have a better DT rotation; that will certainly help the push and free up our DE's which didn't happen in the second half!

giantsfan420
09-08-2012, 03:56 PM
i get what ur saying and agree wth much of it except ur analysis of prince. poor footwork?????poor speed???? uh, we must be watching diff guys. if anything, prince relies too heavily at time on his awesome closing speed and footwork. its something even JR and TC addressed after we drafted him, that he can get himself in a jam, but can bail himself out bc of quickly he closes the ground between him and the wr...i think and believe he is gonna be a quality starting corner, just me tho

zimonami
09-08-2012, 04:31 PM
Your analysis is very accurate and, yes, we could be in for a bad season.
Yet, we were in this same position last season. I considered last year's SB win to be an incredible bonus, given the poor OL and DB's.
Plus, no one expected Cruz to contribute like that. Everyone was wondering who would be #2 with the departure of Smith. Hixon appeared to be the best #2.
Plus, the consensus last year was that our LB's were weak. People feel better about them this year.
Plus, no one could have predicted Eli's excellent year. To many, that was doom, too, because of the previous year's INT's.
The OL couldn't run block, but at least Eli held up under some vicious hits.
Cruz blossomed.
Our invisible LB's got a boost from Blackburn.
Fewell finally stopped running the zones and our DB's did OK in man.
The constant was our DL, and Eli, and the rest was held together with baling wire.
All I'm sying is, last year's team looked as bad, or worse after 1 game.
I hope for the best, but expect the worst from this team. We'll see if they can improve.
So, you could be right... but, I'm still full of hope.

slipknottin
09-08-2012, 04:38 PM
The giants have been trying like heck to get Diehl off the field.

But they consistently have multiple OT injuries. Beatty and Brewer are both injured right now.

DVision
09-08-2012, 04:40 PM
I do not buy in to the "its just one game" and the "3 of our super bowl wins came on the heels of a 0-1 start" crap. I love my team, I will root for them even when the clock hits 0:00 and the stadium has cleared out.

However, no amount of belief will improve a players ability. When you stink, you stink. Thinking and wishing and hoping wont change that.

Going into the season many fans (as well as I) believed that OL was the number 1 concern here. I shouldn't have to wait until week 10 to say our OL stinks, because it does. Bradshaw, a Number 1 on many teams IMO, is running for his life the moment he gets the ball. Same goes for Eli. You cant expect to win when your QB is getting molested every other play. David Deihls days as a starter should have ended when last years season was over, but for some reason, the giants believe he can play.

After CWebb, we dont have anyone who can come in and be a capable starter. This division is filled with Number 2 WO who are actualy Number 1 talents on almost every other team. We cant expect to put a guy like Tryon on another teams number 2 (even if said player has a hammy issue).

Ogletree was burning Coe well before he left the game. Things got a lot worse though when he left. Tryon (IMO) isnt even worth a spot on the active roster on game days. So we shoudlnt expect anything out of him. The best we can hope for is Prince comes up good enough to limit the other teams number 2. A lot of people believe that due to his high draft status and what he did in college (which doesnt impress me), that he should be the man for the job. I dont see it. For a high draft pick, he lacks the footwork to play the position well (thats my opinion. Just look at the tape), he doesnt have the speed to keep up with most WR and with a lack of playing time, he hasnt had a chance to adjust to the WR in this league. They run routes in the NFL last I checked. This isnt your college nine/wheel route kid.

Unfortunately we have no other options so we need him to come up big and do so NOW. Our schedule and the level of competition this year wont allow us any time to rest.

So again, if the OL doesnt get a major upgrade (which it wont for many reasons) and the DB (after CWebb) dont improve, dont expect a good season from our Giants. Eli can only do so much. Thats my take and I will go on record and throw myself to the wolves now.

Prince doesn't have speed? He's our fastest DB besides the newcomer Hosley! By the way, as bad as our players supposedly stink we only lost by 7 points!

gmen0820
09-08-2012, 04:40 PM
I didn't believe the first game crap last year either, and we were plagued with uncertainty far more then. I was proven wrong, and I don't plan on reverting back that line of thinking so early just yet.

slipknottin
09-08-2012, 04:45 PM
And the Prince hate is getting ridiculous. He had a freak injury his rookie year, then got rolled on in preseason.

This "he doesnt have speed" crap is nonsense. The cowboys game last year, that long catch was not Prince's fault. Cover 3, he had to maintain outside leverage and force the receiver inside to where the FS was supposed to be. But the safety was out of position. If a corner has outside leverage he can not cover an inside breaking route. But Prince instead chased the receiver all the way down the field and caught him.

At least know some basics about secondary play before blaming someone, you may be blaming the wrong guy.

YATittle1962
09-08-2012, 04:50 PM
At least know some basics about secondary play before blaming someone, you may be blaming the wrong guy.
yes...this^^^^^^^^

thank you

Eliscruzzz
09-08-2012, 05:00 PM
Price does have great footwork it is one of the things he was known for coming out of college along with his speed the only knock I could find on the guy is that sometimes he gets beat on double moves here are his pros and cons from scouting reports
Pros

Great size for a cornerback. His 6'1 frame allows him to match up with any receiver
Very fluid hips and good footwork which allows him to change directions very quickly
Very aggressive in pass defense. Isn't afraid to take chances to make a play on the ball.
Very good at recognizing route patterns that allows him to jump routes
Great speed. Can stick with receivers and recover if beaten.
Physical at the line of scrimmage. Makes it hard for receivers to release to their routes.
Great character. Team Leader.
Cons

Can get a little too high in his back pedal
Can be too aggressive in jamming receivers which causes him to get beat on double moves.

rainierjef
09-08-2012, 05:01 PM
^^^ most people don't watch.... the game they just watch the game. also most people on this board don't have a football background so explaining a zone and maintaining that zone is crazy to them cause they're thinking well if hes there why not go over and cover him. sigh*

Toadofsteel
09-08-2012, 05:04 PM
DB I think will improve as injured players come back to 100%. As much as I absolutely HATE the way PF goes about applying pressure, he can take a secondary held together by scotch tape and at least make it serviceable (I know the 3 safety set got a lot of flak, but it did the freaking job). Last week was something that even he couldn't fix... you had Tryon, the 5th CB, playing essentially a starting role by the 2nd half due to injuries. If not for injuries, Tryon should NEVER see the field except on ST and a full-on 7 DB Prevent package (and even then that's questionable)...

DL will improve once TC tears into Osi and Tuck. Keeping 5 DE's on the roster might have been a good call after all... gives our starters something to think about if they decide to disappear during a game...

Only true area of concern is the same area that's been plaguing us for years: the crap OL. I was all on board with JR taking a RB round 1 instead of OL (In Reese We Trust and all that), but he took a gamble that's not paying off now. Ideally I would have seen us trade out of the first round into the late second to get 2 decent O-linemen in the 2nd round (too much hassle to trade up and grab one of those top 5 tackles that could easily be a bust)... but ultimately it's Reese's call, not mine...

Eliscruzzz
09-08-2012, 05:13 PM
When Prince comes back and when the coaching staff starts to trust Hosely and let him play our CB situation will be fine. The only thing that concerns me with this team is the o-line but that will also improve we have a couple people out that should come and then hopefully..hopefully DD will be benched I think he can be effective coming in giving other linemen rest but for him to start and play the whole game he just can't do it anymore.

slipknottin
09-08-2012, 05:16 PM
When Prince comes back and when the coaching staff starts to trust Hosely and let him play our CB situation will be fine.

Hosley played quite a bit against the cowboys.

Eliscruzzz
09-08-2012, 05:18 PM
Hosley played quite a bit against the cowboys. Yeah he was playing the slot a lot on Wednesday right?

slipknottin
09-08-2012, 05:22 PM
Yeah he was playing the slot a lot on Wednesday right?

Yes. But if they move him outside, then they need another slot corner, which only makes things even more difficult. Best off just leaving him as the nickel CB. He will still be on the field a ton.

Eliscruzzz
09-08-2012, 05:25 PM
Yes. But if they move him outside, then they need another slot corner, which only makes things even more difficult. Best off just leaving him as the nickel CB. He will still be on the field a ton.Yeah but when Prince comes back won't they just have him and Webster play on the outside wr's then you can have Hosely play the slot and have Prince and Webster playing the outside wrs.

slipknottin
09-08-2012, 05:26 PM
Yeah but when Prince comes back won't they just have him and Webster play on the outside wr's then you can have Hosely play the slot and have Prince and Webster playing the outside wrs.

Yes. And Coe is the backup outside, while Rolle is the backup in the nickel

bklyn1028
09-08-2012, 05:28 PM
Can we possibly have this discussion the Monday after NEXT week when we play the Bucs?....lets bash the crap outta the team if we lose to the Bucs.....and lets let out a huge breath of air when we win (and we will win, no way we go 0-2), and get this "season is over" attitude off the boards.....please!

We lost by one friggin TD....ONE.....if not for that fumble, that bad call on Dallas' hold on Cruz.....who know what would have happened...I think we did great considering the rotation was horrible.....................all the glass is half full naysayers...WE DIDN'T GET BLOWN OUT FOR GOD'S SAKES!!!!!

Eliscruzzz
09-08-2012, 05:32 PM
Yes. And Coe is the backup outside, while Rolle is the backup in the nickel To me that sounds like a pretty good back field combined with Rolle and Phillips as the safeties I don't understand why everyone is panicking about our cb when all health we're good it's not like Prince is out the whole season not saying your panicking but the op sure is..lol.

YATittle1962
09-08-2012, 05:37 PM
To me that sounds like a pretty good back field combined with Rolle and Phillips as the safeties I don't understand why everyone is panicking about our cb when all health we're good it's not like Prince is out the whole season not saying your panicking but the op sure is..lol.

the whole thing is the health of Prince in my opinion

syndesmotic ligaments are easily reaggravated when run on too early

it is very possible that we don't see him on the field for another month or more

Eliscruzzz
09-08-2012, 05:46 PM
the whole thing is the health of Prince in my opinion

syndesmotic ligaments are easily reaggravated when run on too early

it is very possible that we don't see him on the field for another month or more What another month really?? I thought he just had a slightly sprained ankle well that freaking sucks.... let's hope he heals quickly and gets back on the field.

YATittle1962
09-08-2012, 07:29 PM
What another month really?? I thought he just had a slightly sprained ankle well that freaking sucks.... let's hope he heals quickly and gets back on the field.

the term "high ankle sprain" means that the sydesmotic ligaments in the lower calf have been stretched beyond their capacity or are torn

this is very commonly a 6 to 8 week situation

giantsfan420
09-08-2012, 07:40 PM
the term "high ankle sprain" means that the sydesmotic ligaments in the lower calf have been stretched beyond their capacity or are torn

this is very commonly a 6 to 8 week situation
i did read somewhere that it was a minor high ankle sprain, not one of those serious grade high ankle sprains...but i dd also read he had a lil setback so i dunno

G.I. Ants
09-08-2012, 07:47 PM
I've suffered a mild high ankle sprain in the past and it took a month to fully recover. I was 19 at the time. I was surprised to see Prince play that down because he was a major liability at that time. He may miss next week but I do think week 3 is a realistic return. Hosely and Coe on the other hand should be ready.

Martin 2
09-08-2012, 09:35 PM
Prince doesn't have speed? He's our fastest DB besides the newcomer Hosley! By the way, as bad as our players supposedly stink we only lost by 7 points!

Exactly! Thankyou!! they lost the opener by 1 play