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Kruunch
12-15-2011, 02:23 PM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

Jotun_Fan
12-15-2011, 02:24 PM
I'm seriously hoping that the bad defense this year is lockout related.

ELIistheFRANCHISE
12-15-2011, 02:25 PM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships. However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence. I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?</P>


nice post..I believe the lack of a stand out D this year has more to do with the lock out then anything else. I expect next year for defensive teams to stand out more.</P>

Kruunch
12-15-2011, 02:28 PM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships. However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence. I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?</P>


nice post..I believe the lack of a stand out D this year has more to do with the lock out then anything else.* I expect next year for defensive teams to stand out more.</P>

But you'd think a lockout would hurt offenses more then defenses (especially passing offenses).

You don't think the strict enforcement of QB/receiver contact is neutering pass rushes and secondaries?

Jotun_Fan
12-15-2011, 02:33 PM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships. However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence. I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?</P>


nice post..I believe the lack of a stand out D this year has more to do with the lock out then anything else.* I expect next year for defensive teams to stand out more.</P>

But you'd think a lockout would hurt offenses more then defenses (especially passing offenses).

You don't think the strict enforcement of QB/receiver contact is neutering pass rushes and secondaries?

Disagree. When you get to the pro level Defense is at a much higher level due to coaching and practice, people don't make mistakes as often. With the loss of practice time you'll see more mistakes, hence why the pro game looks a lot like college games now...

Mercury
12-15-2011, 02:44 PM
Defenses used to tackle, as in wrap their arms around someone with the ball and drag them to the ground. The game changed when a hard shell helmet was introduced. Defensive players began to use their bodies as missiles of destruction. They no longer tackle, they hurl themselves at the guy with the ball, hoping to knock their opponent down. Offensive plays, too, but not as much. Sometimes you see the running backs run head first, but not always. Hence NFL injuries have been skyrocketing.

The NFL is trying to protect the careers of the players with these rules. Defenses need to adapt to the rules.

The age old adage that great defenses win championships still applies. However, gone are the days of dominant defenses pitching shutouts in this pass happy league. A great defense now gives up less than 21 pts per game.

Rusty192
12-15-2011, 02:44 PM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships. However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence. I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?</p>


nice post..I believe the lack of a stand out D this year has more to do with the lock out then anything else. I expect next year for defensive teams to stand out more.</p>

But you'd think a lockout would hurt offenses more then defenses (especially passing offenses).

You don't think the strict enforcement of QB/receiver contact is neutering pass rushes and secondaries?oh definitely. it'll be a sad day when the NFL finally does away with defense and we are left with arena league scores. CBs are going to be worth gold - if they arent already, and be picked in the top three every draft behind QB's. If not first overall.

RB's will be small and valued on their hands and speed - rather then vision and power or durability.


The NFL is turning into a finesse league.

Between the ridiculous penalties against WR's and QB's and the fact that every team is starting to run 4 WR sets. It wouldnt surprise me if pretty soon the NFL finds a way too have 6 or 7 Wr sets. lol

TuckYou
12-15-2011, 02:52 PM
Offense makes money for the NFL. Imagine if Hockey games were regularly 9 to 8 games with back and forth scoring. I bet that would make the sport much more popular. Baseball, steroids = scoring more runs and making the league much more money by entertaining fans. Remember 98 when Bonds and Sosa and McGuire were all chasing the HR record in the same year? Well now it is Brees and Brady and Rodgers and Eli all chasing Marino's record in the same year... Something is up...

Kruunch
12-15-2011, 02:53 PM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships. However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence. I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?</P>


nice post..I believe the lack of a stand out D this year has more to do with the lock out then anything else.* I expect next year for defensive teams to stand out more.</P>

But you'd think a lockout would hurt offenses more then defenses (especially passing offenses).

You don't think the strict enforcement of QB/receiver contact is neutering pass rushes and secondaries?

Disagree. When you get to the pro level Defense is at a much higher level due to coaching and practice, people don't make mistakes as often. With the loss of practice time you'll see more mistakes, hence why the pro game looks a lot like college games now...

Defenses don't have timing patterns or have to reply on making catches (just defending them).

Defense has always been an easier proposition then offense.

I would blame the college like atmosphere more on the change and strict enforcement of "defenseless" player rules then the lockout hurting defenses.

The lockout would only be relavent up to a certain point ... you'd think by the end of the regular season, any rust would be shaken off by now no?

Kruunch
12-15-2011, 02:56 PM
Defenses used to tackle, as in wrap their arms around someone with the ball and drag them to the ground.* The game changed when a hard shell helmet was introduced.* Defensive players began to use their bodies as missiles of destruction.* They no longer tackle, they hurl themselves at the guy with the ball, hoping to knock their opponent down.* Offensive plays, too, but not as much.* Sometimes you see the running backs run head first, but not always.* Hence NFL injuries have been skyrocketing.*

The NFL is* trying to protect the careers of the players with these rules.* Defenses need to adapt to the rules.

The age old adage that great defenses win championships still applies.* However, gone are the days of dominant defenses pitching shutouts in this pass happy league.* A great defense now gives up less than 21 pts per game.

*


I tend to agree here.

I think you'll also see a cycling trend as LBers become more like Safeties which will in effect make defenses sport 7 DBs constantly. At that point, you'll see the return of the power run game.

And then back again, as lines/LBers get bigger again to compensate and so forth.

Kruunch
12-15-2011, 02:59 PM
Offense makes money for the NFL. Imagine if Hockey games were regularly 9 to 8 games with back and forth scoring. I bet that would make the sport much more popular. Baseball, steroids = scoring more runs and making the league much more money by entertaining fans. Remember 98 when Bonds and Sosa and McGuire were all chasing the HR record in the same year? Well now it is Brees and Brady and Rodgers and Eli all chasing Marino's record in the same year... Something is up...

Yeah I have a sneaking suspicion that this might have more to do with the current trend of strict offensive player protection. Much more so then the touted "player safety" which is laughable.

JMFP2
12-15-2011, 03:06 PM
The era of hard hitting defense is coming to a close. See James Harrison for reference.

The NFL wants to have their cake and eat it too..... they are looking for guys like Vick, Rodgers, Cam Newton, etc to run up and down the field at will.

Really, they need to re-examine what they expect from the QB and defenders. When the QB leaves the pocket, unnecessary roughness shouldn't be called unless its totally blatant.

If they really want to protect the passer, they shouldn't allow them to go beyond the line of scrimmage, and shouldn't call intentional grounding.

timmytimm3
12-15-2011, 03:09 PM
Defenses used to tackle, as in wrap their arms around someone with the ball and drag them to the ground.* The game changed when a hard shell helmet was introduced.* Defensive players began to use their bodies as missiles of destruction.* They no longer tackle, they hurl themselves at the guy with the ball, hoping to knock their opponent down.* Offensive plays, too, but not as much.* Sometimes you see the running backs run head first, but not always.* Hence NFL injuries have been skyrocketing.*

The NFL is* trying to protect the careers of the players with these rules.* Defenses need to adapt to the rules.

The age old adage that great defenses win championships still applies.* However, gone are the days of dominant defenses pitching shutouts in this pass happy league.* A great defense now gives up less than 21 pts per game.

*


I tend to agree here.

I think you'll also see a cycling trend as LBers become more like Safeties which will in effect make defenses sport 7 DBs constantly. At that point, you'll see the return of the power run game.

And then back again, as lines/LBers get bigger again to compensate and so forth.

Agreed

JimC
12-15-2011, 03:12 PM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

Sadly....just like every other sport fans want to see scoring. Football will become like basketball. There is no appreciation of good defense any longer.....sad but true. Give me some of those old 10-3 games.

TroyArcher
12-15-2011, 03:16 PM
Almost every rule cahnge over the past 10-15 years has favored the offense. It eventually had to lead to this. Coaches realize that there is a better chance to win with a pass happy offense then to try to build a solid defense with a good running game. I think it will get to the point where you will not be able to hit the QB.

Kruunch
12-15-2011, 03:16 PM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

Sadly....just like every other sport fans want to see scoring.* Football will become like basketball.* There is no appreciation of good defense any longer.....sad but true.* Give me some of those old 10-3 games.


Or 17-14? :D

Funny that you should mention basketball ... I loathe basketball (and hockey to a degree) because penalties determine the outcomes each and every game. They are a vital stat to the offenses of those sports.

Football was never like that. While a penalty *could* determine the outcome of a game, it was a rarity.

This year, penalties are more responsible for sustaining offensive drives, then the actual plays are.

While I love watching shootouts, knowing that they only exist because someone will eventually get called for Illegal Contact, Pass Interference or Roughing the Passer has taken a lot of the enjoyment of the game away from me.

It's less about player talent and more about the fickleness of the refs now (or so it seems).

BlueSanta
12-15-2011, 03:34 PM
Offense makes money for the NFL. Imagine if Hockey games were regularly 9 to 8 games with back and forth scoring. I bet that would make the sport much more popular. Baseball, steroids = scoring more runs and making the league much more money by entertaining fans. Remember 98 when Bonds and Sosa and McGuire were all chasing the HR record in the same year? Well now it is Brees and Brady and Rodgers and Eli all chasing Marino's record in the same year... Something is up...

Yeah I have a sneaking suspicion that this might have more to do with the current trend of strict offensive player protection. Much more so then the touted "player safety" which is laughable.

The trend has actually been going on for some time longer than the recent rule changes.

There are 2 types of fans out there:

1)Those who love football and want to see good offense and good defense, even if that means a 13-10 game. I'd bet most posters in these forums fit this mold(not all).

2)And those that dont really watch that often but when they do they want to see scoring, touchdown dances and Cheerleading squads that have their cute little TD dance routine for the home team. This is the largest amount of fans because often it includes casual fans and kids who dont yet know about good football. At the risk of generalizing, it is wives, kids, foreigners, fans who are primarily fans of other sports, etc.

Over the last couple decades middle-of-the-road college programs have begun putting their best athletes on offense at the expense of their defense. Only the top programs have enough good athletes to spread out. The way Athletic departments look at it, its better to be bad and score a lot of points then be bad and keep opponents from scoring a lot of points.

Take a guy like Deon Sanders coming up of high school. He is clearly a once in a generation athlete with speed that most people will never again see the likes of in their life. 99% of curent college coaches would take a guy like him coming out of high school today and make him a WR and he might do ok. He would likely have scored more TDs in his college career and fans would have loved him and he would have likely been drafted. But, we would have missed out on a guy who is likely the best pure cover corner of all time simply because his college coach wanted to put a few extra seats in the stands so they could see a few more TD in a season for the home team.


This trend of putting big name stars on offense in college has made it so MOST of the money makers coming out of college are offensive players. But, those of us who like good ALL AROUND football suffer because not the NFL recognizes that it must protect those guys or lose the extra seats filled by the fans who only want to see offense.

NYG 5
12-15-2011, 07:08 PM
Any of your morons defending that ******* harrison need to have your heads examined.

He deliberately went after mccoy's head. At no point did mccoy start moving around like a ballcarrier trying to run. He was moving around just to pass. HE WAS STANDING STRAIGHT UP THE ENTIRE TIME.

You wanna put the big hit on him? Fine, he's standing straight up, go right through his chest. But this ***** only wants to use his helmet as a weapon because he can't actually tackle, so he spears mccoy right in the face thinking he looks tough.

THATS A DISGRACE AND INEXCUSABLE. You don't go after a player's head, back, or knees. Everything else is fair game. The giants killed montana by blasting him in the upper body, not by cheap shotting him in the head.

That said, nfl needs to go back to pre-2004 rules, which were fair for both sides of the ball (see sb 35 and 36 vs sb 38), or they have to crackdown on offensive holding to even out all the defensive holding calls.

Harooni
12-15-2011, 07:17 PM
one thing i heard on the radio that made sense was a player, saying that a rec or QB when bracing for a hit will lower their field of play and helmet comes down. which would make some of those helmet to helmets nearly unavoidable that we saw this season.

I agree they need to learn how to tackle better and at times its not on purpose.

I propose they change the style of the helmet to a hard on the inside and nerflike/spongy on the outside.

NoHuddle10
12-15-2011, 07:19 PM
I guarantee everyone that come the divsion round, conference championship games, and super bowl... The defenses will ultimately play a huge factor as to who is left standing in the end.

JMFP2
12-15-2011, 07:32 PM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

Sadly....just like every other sport fans want to see scoring.* Football will become like basketball.* There is no appreciation of good defense any longer.....sad but true.* Give me some of those old 10-3 games.



Agreed 100%.

I look at defensive contests the same way I look at pitcher's duels....every play becomes so important.

I remember back in the glory days of the NFC East, when the Giants, Eagles, and Redskins had great defenses....those games were awesome. Field position, weather, all came into play.

MattMeyerBud
12-15-2011, 07:36 PM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

i couldn't disagree any more

when was the last time an offense really single handedly won it all? Greatest show on turf?

patman_jones
12-15-2011, 07:37 PM
Defenses used to tackle, as in wrap their arms around someone with the ball and drag them to the ground.* The game changed when a hard shell helmet was introduced.* Defensive players began to use their bodies as missiles of destruction.* They no longer tackle, they hurl themselves at the guy with the ball, hoping to knock their opponent down.* Offensive plays, too, but not as much.* Sometimes you see the running backs run head first, but not always.* Hence NFL injuries have been skyrocketing.*

The NFL is* trying to protect the careers of the players with these rules.* Defenses need to adapt to the rules.

The age old adage that great defenses win championships still applies.* However, gone are the days of dominant defenses pitching shutouts in this pass happy league.* A great defense now gives up less than 21 pts per game.

*


Couldn't agree more, the lack of tackles is another reason for some of the increased offense. Instead of a 5 yard pass, we're seeing more 5 yard passes turning into huge gains because guys want that big highlight reel hit.
Show them a rugby game, those guys know how to tackle, if you can't make open field tackles in rugby you can't play. With no pads guys don't feel so invincible turning their bodies into missiles.

MattMeyerBud
12-15-2011, 07:38 PM
Any of your morons defending that ******* harrison need to have your heads examined.

He deliberately went after mccoy's head. At no point did mccoy start moving around like a ballcarrier trying to run. He was moving around just to pass. HE WAS STANDING STRAIGHT UP THE ENTIRE TIME.

You wanna put the big hit on him? Fine, he's standing straight up, go right through his chest. But this ***** only wants to use his helmet as a weapon because he can't actually tackle, so he spears mccoy right in the face thinking he looks tough.

THATS A DISGRACE AND INEXCUSABLE. You don't go after a player's head, back, or knees. Everything else is fair game. The giants killed montana by blasting him in the upper body, not by cheap shotting him in the head.

That said, nfl needs to go back to pre-2004 rules, which were fair for both sides of the ball (see sb 35 and 36 vs sb 38), or they have to crackdown on offensive holding to even out all the defensive holding calls.

he didn't go after McCoy's head

Ross Tucker made a great point about that his specifically yesterday morning

He said if this was two years ago everybody is giving Harrison props and it would probably be the close on MNF's "JACKED UP"

That was football

NoHuddle10
12-15-2011, 07:40 PM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

i couldn't disagree any more

when was the last time an offense really single handedly won it all? Greatest show on turf?




I agree with this big time. Even the greatest show on turf had a defense that finished the year ranked #1 in the NFL... They were one of the only teams in history to finish #1 in both defense and offense.

Last year, anyone watch GB @ CHI in the NFC championship game? GB's defense doesnt bring it during last years playoff run and they dont win it all.

MattMeyerBud
12-15-2011, 07:42 PM
yea GB's defense has fallen off this year but they were something else last year

Jotun_Fan
12-15-2011, 08:11 PM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships. However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence. I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?</P>


nice post..I believe the lack of a stand out D this year has more to do with the lock out then anything else.* I expect next year for defensive teams to stand out more.</P>

But you'd think a lockout would hurt offenses more then defenses (especially passing offenses).

You don't think the strict enforcement of QB/receiver contact is neutering pass rushes and secondaries?

Disagree. When you get to the pro level Defense is at a much higher level due to coaching and practice, people don't make mistakes as often. With the loss of practice time you'll see more mistakes, hence why the pro game looks a lot like college games now...

Defenses don't have timing patterns or have to reply on making catches (just defending them).

Defense has always been an easier proposition then offense.

I would blame the college like atmosphere more on the change and strict enforcement of "defenseless" player rules then the lockout hurting defenses.

The lockout would only be relavent up to a certain point ... you'd think by the end of the regular season, any rust would be shaken off by now no?

During the lockout it wasn't too hard for a QB/Receiver to go out and practice timing patterns. Not as easy for defenses to go out and practice learning defensive schemes, which is a big problem with the giants this year as they clearly are having trouble understanding what they are supposed to be doing.

JMFP2
12-15-2011, 09:31 PM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

i couldn't disagree any more

when was the last time an offense really single handedly won it all? Greatest show on turf?




It could be this season, with Green Bay....statistically, their defense is worse than the Giants (at least in Yds/Game).

hungrrrry
12-15-2011, 10:11 PM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?
I agree it seems like it and it drives me nuts this year is "defenseless"...except...Tebow AIN'T winning games...I will not sign on with that!

Redeyejedi
12-15-2011, 10:14 PM
Its disgusting what the NFL has become.Some of the games have become unwatchable. It has a lot to do with the fans of the game. They have castrated defenses because most of the mindless fools in the US cant hold there attention for more then 5 minutes. If someone isnt scoring a TD every 5 minutes the game is boring. On Twitter people complained about the LSU Alabama game because there wasnt any scoring. The best college game of the year from the 2 best teams in the nation and most didnt want to see a rematch because there not lame *** spread offenses

jgrangers11
12-15-2011, 11:12 PM
Any of your morons defending that ******* harrison need to have your heads examined.

He deliberately went after mccoy's head. At no point did mccoy start moving around like a ballcarrier trying to run. He was moving around just to pass. HE WAS STANDING STRAIGHT UP THE ENTIRE TIME.

You wanna put the big hit on him? Fine, he's standing straight up, go right through his chest. But this ***** only wants to use his helmet as a weapon because he can't actually tackle, so he spears mccoy right in the face thinking he looks tough.

THATS A DISGRACE AND INEXCUSABLE. You don't go after a player's head, back, or knees. Everything else is fair game. The giants killed montana by blasting him in the upper body, not by cheap shotting him in the head.

That said, nfl needs to go back to pre-2004 rules, which were fair for both sides of the ball (see sb 35 and 36 vs sb 38), or they have to crackdown on offensive holding to even out all the defensive holding calls.

Completely agree with this. He absolutely launched himself directly at Mccoy's head. I'm all for a physical game, but that doesn't mean what Harrison did was acceptable.

jgrangers11
12-15-2011, 11:12 PM
Any of your morons defending that ******* harrison need to have your heads examined.

He deliberately went after mccoy's head. At no point did mccoy start moving around like a ballcarrier trying to run. He was moving around just to pass. HE WAS STANDING STRAIGHT UP THE ENTIRE TIME.

You wanna put the big hit on him? Fine, he's standing straight up, go right through his chest. But this ***** only wants to use his helmet as a weapon because he can't actually tackle, so he spears mccoy right in the face thinking he looks tough.

THATS A DISGRACE AND INEXCUSABLE. You don't go after a player's head, back, or knees. Everything else is fair game. The giants killed montana by blasting him in the upper body, not by cheap shotting him in the head.

That said, nfl needs to go back to pre-2004 rules, which were fair for both sides of the ball (see sb 35 and 36 vs sb 38), or they have to crackdown on offensive holding to even out all the defensive holding calls.

Completely agree with this. He absolutely launched himself directly at Mccoy's head. I'm all for a physical game, but that doesn't mean what Harrison did was acceptable.

JMFP2
12-16-2011, 01:21 AM
In slow motion, it looks more deliberate than in real time.</P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUN5OG28-f4&amp;feature=related</P>


This is the same sort of hit Giants linebackersmade about 20,000 times when Parcells was running the team. </P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xqtiQ4ou50</P>

BurnerNYG
12-16-2011, 02:24 AM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

Sadly....just like every other sport fans want to see scoring.* Football will become like basketball.* There is no appreciation of good defense any longer.....sad but true.* Give me some of those old 10-3 games.
Who says they don't play defense in basketball? You must've never watched San Antonio or Detroit when they won their last title? My Bulls was #1 in the league last year... you're sadly mistaken buddy.

jhamburg
12-16-2011, 02:51 AM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

i couldn't disagree any more

when was the last time an offense really single handedly won it all? Greatest show on turf?




How many times in the last 20 years or so has a team with a better defense than offense won the super bowl? Us, the steelers, maybe one of the Patriots teams, Tampa, Baltimore, and that's pretty much it.

The formula to win a super bowl is an outstanding offense and a defense that isn't horrible. Or more accurately, a defense that can pin its ears back and get pressure on the QB when their opponent is forced to rely on passing because they're playing from behind.

The pre-2011 Colts are the template for this.

BlueBlitzer
12-16-2011, 02:59 AM
In slow motion, it looks more deliberate than in real time.</P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUN5OG28-f4&feature=related</P>


This is the same sort of hit Giants linebackers*made about 20,000 times when Parcells was running the team.* </P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xqtiQ4ou50</P>

That is such B.S. if LT or Banks or Carson were leading with their helmet. there would have been QBs being carted off the field left and right. Harrison is a POS. He continually leads with His helmet, and has said He will continue to do so.

gmen46
12-16-2011, 05:50 AM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

i couldn't disagree any more

when was the last time an offense really single handedly won it all? Greatest show on turf?




I agree with this big time. Even the greatest show on turf had a defense that finished the year ranked #1 in the NFL... They were one of the only teams in history to finish #1 in both defense and offense.

Last year, anyone watch GB @ CHI in the NFC championship game? GB's defense doesnt bring it during last years playoff run and they dont win it all.

Rams did not finish season #1 on defense, in either points or yards.

Their defense was good, but not #1. They were 6th in yards, 4th in points. Like I said, good, but not the best.

On the other hand, the 2010 Chargers were #1 in offense and in defense (yards), and didn't even make the playoffs.

SweetZombieJesus
12-16-2011, 08:33 AM
The game changed when a hard shell helmet was introduced. Defensive players began to use their bodies as missiles of destruction.



You know this brings up a thought that I don't think I've seen discussed.

The helmet is designed to protect the wearer -- what if it's time to also protect someone on the outside of it? Seems silly at first, but in the car world they have started designing cars with pedestrian safety in mind -- in other words not only protecting the occupants but people who might be hit by the car as well.

Maybe the same line of thinking needs to be applied to these helmets -- to lessen the impact on the targeted player.

chasjay
12-16-2011, 08:43 AM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

I think the changes are weighted in favor of the offense, but there are things the receivers used to do that have been reined in as well. Just as defenders used to be able to do more hand-checking and jostling of receivers, the receivers used to be able to get away with more contact, pushoffs (see M. Irvin) than they do now. Another example is the "pick plays" that offenses use to rub defenders off their assignments. The offenses still get away with some of it, but not nearly as much as they used to. My point is that the new offensive schemes and tactics (back shoulder throws, timing routes, etc.) have as much, or more, to do with the increased passing yards than the rules and game officials giving the offenses more of an advantage. IMHO.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 08:55 AM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

i couldn't disagree any more

when was the last time an offense really single handedly won it all? Greatest show on turf?




It could be this season, with Green Bay....statistically, their defense is worse than the Giants (at least in Yds/Game).

even if GB does do it this season with the way they've been playing, does one year mean that its going to be like this forever?

There are plenty of examples of defensive teams winning it all. In my opinion, for this theory to be true that its now "offenses win championships", you'd need at least 3 years in a row.

Perfect example of how defense wins championships is still relevent is wtih Peyton Manning. THe only superbowl that maybe the greatest QB to play the game won, was in one post season where his defense balled out

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 08:59 AM
Its disgusting what the NFL has become.Some of the games have become unwatchable. It has a lot to do with the fans of the game. They have castrated defenses because most of the mindless fools in the US cant hold there attention for more then 5 minutes. If someone isnt scoring a TD every 5 minutes the game is boring. On Twitter people complained about the LSU Alabama game because there wasnt any scoring. The best college game of the year from the 2 best teams in the nation and most didnt want to see a rematch because there not lame *** spread offenses

Scoring gets attention

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 09:01 AM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

Sadly....just like every other sport fans want to see scoring. Football will become like basketball. There is no appreciation of good defense any longer.....sad but true. Give me some of those old 10-3 games.
Who says they don't play defense in basketball? You must've never watched San Antonio or Detroit when they won their last title? My Bulls was #1 in the league last year... you're sadly mistaken buddy.

The best teams play defense (most of em), but defense is definitly a lacking issue in the NBA

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 09:08 AM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

i couldn't disagree any more

when was the last time an offense really single handedly won it all? Greatest show on turf?




How many times in the last 20 years or so has a team with a better defense than offense won the super bowl? Us, the steelers, maybe one of the Patriots teams, Tampa, Baltimore, and that's pretty much it.

The formula to win a super bowl is an outstanding offense and a defense that isn't horrible. Or more accurately, a defense that can pin its ears back and get pressure on the QB when their opponent is forced to rely on passing because they're playing from behind.

The pre-2011 Colts are the template for this.

first: BOTH superbowl teams for the Steelers were defensive led

And in a situation like GB and NO the past two years, yea maybe the offenses get more attention but that GB defense was a top 5 defense. What was the difference in NE and GB last year? DEFENSE! Thats why GB has a ring and NE was one and done

Even the Saints. Yea they have the high powered offense and this and that but their DEFENSE had a great year. Top 5 in turnovers and top 3 in total defense.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 09:11 AM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

i couldn't disagree any more

when was the last time an offense really single handedly won it all? Greatest show on turf?




I agree with this big time. Even the greatest show on turf had a defense that finished the year ranked #1 in the NFL... They were one of the only teams in history to finish #1 in both defense and offense.

Last year, anyone watch GB @ CHI in the NFC championship game? GB's defense doesnt bring it during last years playoff run and they dont win it all.

Rams did not finish season #1 on defense, in either points or yards.

Their defense was good, but not #1. They were 6th in yards, 4th in points. Like I said, good, but not the best.

On the other hand, the 2010 Chargers were #1 in offense and in defense (yards), and didn't even make the playoffs.

okay but on the flip side last year GBs offense was 9th in yards and 10th in points. Point he was making was that they had a very relevent defense and its true.

bandwgn86
12-16-2011, 09:14 AM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?It's not a new dawn for football the NFL is just slowly catching up with the CFL lol.. It's 3 downs and no fair catches for your future ;)

JimC
12-16-2011, 09:24 AM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

Sadly....just like every other sport fans want to see scoring. Football will become like basketball. There is no appreciation of good defense any longer.....sad but true. Give me some of those old 10-3 games.
Who says they don't play defense in basketball? You must've never watched San Antonio or Detroit when they won their last title? My Bulls was #1 in the league last year... you're sadly mistaken buddy.

My point is this.......how many SCORES are there in a basketball game 80 - 90? How many in football 6 - 9? How many in hockey 7 - 9?

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 09:25 AM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?It's not a new dawn for football the NFL is just slowly catching up with the CFL lol.. It's 3 downs and no fair catches for your future ;)

and then they dump maple syrup over the coaches head after a big victory instead of gatorade

bandwgn86
12-16-2011, 09:29 AM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?It's not a new dawn for football the NFL is just slowly catching up with the CFL lol.. It's 3 downs and no fair catches for your future ;)

and then they dump maple syrup over the coaches head after a big victory instead of gatorade
Which is really a feat cuz it doesn't pour out so fast

hungrrrry
12-16-2011, 09:31 AM
As I mentioned before....not sure anyone picked up on it...Tebow is not winning those games...his defense is doing all the work with the exception of a few flukey bad plays by the opponent players.

Not sure how the denver defense shakes out against a good offense like New England...I guess we will see. Denvers record is directly related to bad teams on schedule, injuries to teams coming up on their sched. (Bears - cutler/forte) and then unexplained errant palys by opponent then defense....not tebow.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 09:33 AM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?It's not a new dawn for football the NFL is just slowly catching up with the CFL lol.. It's 3 downs and no fair catches for your future ;)

and then they dump maple syrup over the coaches head after a big victory instead of gatorade
Which is really a feat cuz it doesn't pour out so fast

i never said you canucks were the brightest

i miss you &lt;3

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 09:34 AM
As I mentioned before....not sure anyone picked up on it...Tebow is not winning those games...his defense is doing all the work with the exception of a few flukey bad plays by the opponent players.

Not sure how the denver defense shakes out against a good offense like New England...I guess we will see. Denvers record is directly related to bad teams on schedule, injuries to teams coming up on their sched. (Bears - cutler/forte) and then unexplained errant palys by opponent then defense....not tebow.

I agree that Denver is winning with defense, special teams, offense, and a bad schedule

but bottom line is that when its on the line he becomes a different player. The goal is to get the ball in his hands to do something with it at the end of the game. If they can do that, they win

bandwgn86
12-16-2011, 09:37 AM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?It's not a new dawn for football the NFL is just slowly catching up with the CFL lol.. It's 3 downs and no fair catches for your future ;)

and then they dump maple syrup over the coaches head after a big victory instead of gatorade
Which is really a feat cuz it doesn't pour out so fast

i never said you Canucks were the brightest

i miss you <3
do you know how difficult it is to edit on an iPad Mod M? Lol
I'm actually surprised that the CFL, trying not to be the NFL, they don't dump the coach onto the Gatorade..

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 09:56 AM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?It's not a new dawn for football the NFL is just slowly catching up with the CFL lol.. It's 3 downs and no fair catches for your future ;)

and then they dump maple syrup over the coaches head after a big victory instead of gatorade
Which is really a feat cuz it doesn't pour out so fast

i never said you Canucks were the brightest

i miss you &lt;3
do you know how difficult it is to edit on an iPad Mod M? Lol
I'm actually surprised that the CFL, trying not to be the NFL, they don't dump the coach onto the Gatorade..

lol whats the deal

has moorehead finally scared u off?

Kruunch
12-16-2011, 10:51 AM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

i couldn't disagree any more

when was the last time an offense really single handedly won it all? Greatest show on turf?




Shocker ... Mr. Arbitrary disagrees.

When is the last time a defensive team won the superbowl? 2008 Steelers? Coincidentally, it was about the same time they started implementing and cracking down on QB/receiver rules.

Well we'll see ... considering the two favorite teams to go to the Superbowl right now are sporting the 31 and 32 ranked defenses.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 10:59 AM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

i couldn't disagree any more

when was the last time an offense really single handedly won it all? Greatest show on turf?




Shocker ... Mr. Arbitrary disagrees.

When is the last time a defensive team won the superbowl? 2008 Steelers? Coincidentally, it was about the same time they started implementing and cracking down on QB/receiver rules.

Well we'll see ... considering the two favorite teams to go to the Superbowl right now are sporting the 31 and 32 ranked defenses.

please... mr. meyer will do just fine

and im glad to see u gave up in responding to the your "I WISH I HAD A COWBOY" thread after those Green Bay Packer examples you gave.

how bout last year? Why don't you go back and REALLY look at how GB won last year. Defense was ranked higher than the offense in yards and points, they shut the Bears and Eagles to points in the teens while the offense scored 21. If you think it was just about the offense for GB <font size="6">LAST</font> year well then... i guess i would expect nothing less

like I said thats fine if it happens this year, but one year doesn't defeat a lifetime fact in sports. And lets have them get there before we put them there.

Kruunch
12-16-2011, 11:01 AM
The game changed when a hard shell helmet was introduced.* Defensive players began to use their bodies as missiles of destruction.



You know this brings up a thought that I don't think I've seen discussed.

The helmet is designed to protect the wearer -- what if it's time to also protect someone on the outside of it?* Seems silly at first, but in the car world they have started designing cars with pedestrian safety in mind -- in other words not only protecting the occupants but people who might be hit by the car as well.*

Maybe the same line of thinking needs to be applied to these helmets -- to lessen the impact on the targeted player.




Back to leather helmets!

But yeah I totally agree ... the more "concussion" proof they've made the helmets over the past 30 years, the more weapon-like they've become.

I noticed this back in the 80s when we went from standard padding (which was essentially plastic bumps to hold the helmet by your ears) to "max protect" cushioned foam.

Everyone on defense started using themselves like missiles.

Kruunch
12-16-2011, 11:08 AM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

i couldn't disagree any more

when was the last time an offense really single handedly won it all? Greatest show on turf?




Shocker ... Mr. Arbitrary disagrees.

When is the last time a defensive team won the superbowl? 2008 Steelers? Coincidentally, it was about the same time they started implementing and cracking down on QB/receiver rules.

Well we'll see ... considering the two favorite teams to go to the Superbowl right now are sporting the 31 and 32 ranked defenses.

please... mr. meyer will do just fine

and im glad to see u gave up in responding to the your "I WISH I HAD A COWBOY" thread after those Green Bay Packer examples you gave.

how bout last year?* Why don't you go back and REALLY look at how GB won last year. Defense was ranked higher than the offense in yards and points, they shut the Bears and Eagles to points in the teens while the offense scored 21. If you think it was just about the offense for GB* <font size="6">LAST</font> year well then... i guess i would expect nothing less

like I said thats fine if it happens this year, but one year doesn't defeat a lifetime fact in sports. And lets have them get there before we put them there.*


Sorry ... I took Roanoke's sig to heart where it concerns you :)

We'll see what teams make it to the superbowl this year and what the final score is. My feeling is that it will be in the top 5 of Superbowl record scoring.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 11:12 AM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

i couldn't disagree any more

when was the last time an offense really single handedly won it all? Greatest show on turf?




Shocker ... Mr. Arbitrary disagrees.

When is the last time a defensive team won the superbowl? 2008 Steelers? Coincidentally, it was about the same time they started implementing and cracking down on QB/receiver rules.

Well we'll see ... considering the two favorite teams to go to the Superbowl right now are sporting the 31 and 32 ranked defenses.

please... mr. meyer will do just fine

and im glad to see u gave up in responding to the your "I WISH I HAD A COWBOY" thread after those Green Bay Packer examples you gave.

how bout last year? Why don't you go back and REALLY look at how GB won last year. Defense was ranked higher than the offense in yards and points, they shut the Bears and Eagles to points in the teens while the offense scored 21. If you think it was just about the offense for GB <font size="6">LAST</font> year well then... i guess i would expect nothing less

like I said thats fine if it happens this year, but one year doesn't defeat a lifetime fact in sports. And lets have them get there before we put them there.


Sorry ... I took Roanoke's sig to heart where it concerns you :)

We'll see what teams make it to the superbowl this year and what the final score is. My feeling is that it will be in the top 5 of Superbowl record scoring.

either way - your wrong that GB won it offensively last year and your wrong the NO won it offensively the year before. It was having a defense that put them over the top

the ol adage that offense wins games and defense wins championships has maintained to be true

fourth&forever
12-16-2011, 11:19 AM
The game changed when a hard shell helmet was introduced.* Defensive players began to use their bodies as missiles of destruction.



You know this brings up a thought that I don't think I've seen discussed.

The helmet is designed to protect the wearer -- what if it's time to also protect someone on the outside of it?* Seems silly at first, but in the car world they have started designing cars with pedestrian safety in mind -- in other words not only protecting the occupants but people who might be hit by the car as well.*

Maybe the same line of thinking needs to be applied to these helmets -- to lessen the impact on the targeted player.




Back to leather helmets!

But yeah I totally agree ... the more "concussion" proof they've made the helmets over the past 30 years, the more weapon-like they've become.

I noticed this back in the 80s when we went from standard padding (which was essentially plastic bumps to hold the helmet by your ears) to "max protect" cushioned foam.

Everyone on defense started using themselves like missiles.

I couldn't agree more. If we went back to leather helmets, there would be a resurgence in form tackling. Just look at rugby. Rugby players use much better form tackling and have fewer concussions than the NFL. Plus leather helmets look cool.

Kruunch
12-16-2011, 11:20 AM
Interesting stats:

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-penalties-per-game

Notice that the overwhelming majority of passing teams have substantially higher penalties against them by opponents this year.

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 11:35 AM
Interesting stats:

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-penalties-per-game

Notice that the overwhelming majority of passing teams have substantially higher penalties against them by opponents this year.

yea that sounds about right

jhamburg
12-16-2011, 11:55 AM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

i couldn't disagree any more

when was the last time an offense really single handedly won it all? Greatest show on turf?




How many times in the last 20 years or so has a team with a better defense than offense won the super bowl? Us, the steelers, maybe one of the Patriots teams, Tampa, Baltimore, and that's pretty much it.

The formula to win a super bowl is an outstanding offense and a defense that isn't horrible. Or more accurately, a defense that can pin its ears back and get pressure on the QB when their opponent is forced to rely on passing because they're playing from behind.

The pre-2011 Colts are the template for this.

first: BOTH superbowl teams for the Steelers were defensive led

And in a situation like GB and NO the past two years, yea maybe the offenses get more attention but that GB defense was a top 5 defense. What was the difference in NE and GB last year? DEFENSE! Thats why GB has a ring and NE was one and done

Even the Saints. Yea they have the high powered offense and this and that but their DEFENSE had a great year. Top 5 in turnovers and top 3 in total defense.




Obviously you're better off having a great defense to go along with your offense. But take your example with GB, you basically had a great offensive team with an elite defense (PIT) and a great defensive team with an elite offense (GB). Who won?

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 12:05 PM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships.

However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence.

I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses).

Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?

i couldn't disagree any more

when was the last time an offense really single handedly won it all? Greatest show on turf?




How many times in the last 20 years or so has a team with a better defense than offense won the super bowl? Us, the steelers, maybe one of the Patriots teams, Tampa, Baltimore, and that's pretty much it.

The formula to win a super bowl is an outstanding offense and a defense that isn't horrible. Or more accurately, a defense that can pin its ears back and get pressure on the QB when their opponent is forced to rely on passing because they're playing from behind.

The pre-2011 Colts are the template for this.

first: BOTH superbowl teams for the Steelers were defensive led

And in a situation like GB and NO the past two years, yea maybe the offenses get more attention but that GB defense was a top 5 defense. What was the difference in NE and GB last year? DEFENSE! Thats why GB has a ring and NE was one and done

Even the Saints. Yea they have the high powered offense and this and that but their DEFENSE had a great year. Top 5 in turnovers and top 3 in total defense.




Obviously you're better off having a great defense to go along with your offense. But take your example with GB, you basically had a great offensive team with an elite defense (PIT) and a great defensive team with an elite offense (GB). Who won?

the better team

but the moral of that story is that 2 top defenses were in the superbowl

Medisleman
12-16-2011, 12:21 PM
The NFL has tried to hamstring defenses with their dumb player safety rules and fines. Players get paid to take risk and nobody forces them to play. So the new rules are dumb. Despite this good defense can still win. Look at Denver. Don't be shocked if they not only make the playoff, but go deep into them. That defense can win games. Defense will never be dead.

bandwgn86
12-16-2011, 07:07 PM
It was an age old addage that great defenses win championships. However in the new decade and dawn of offensive football, the NFL has finally hamstrung defenses to the point of impotence. I heard an interesting blurb on NFL radio today where they discussed the plight that modern defenses face in this era of pass happy teams, where looking at a QB or receiver earns you a drive continuing flag. Singling out the Giants, the discussion revolved around the fact that the other "elite" offensive teams are facing the same problems (all of them having substandard defenses). Are we in the midst of a defensive transition or are defenses really becoming superfluous in the modern game of football?It's not a new dawn for football the NFL is just slowly catching up with the CFL lol.. It's 3 downs and no fair catches for your future ;)

and then they dump maple syrup over the coaches head after a big victory instead of gatorade
Which is really a feat cuz it doesn't pour out so fast

i never said you Canucks were the brightest

i miss you &lt;3
do you know how difficult it is to edit on an iPad Mod M? Lol I'm actually surprised that the CFL, trying not to be the NFL, they don't dump the coach onto the Gatorade..

lol whats the deal

has moorehead finally scared u off?
from thee thread? not at all,i've spoiled you guys too much having bandy all to yourselves..its not fair for the rest of the GMB tbh

MattMeyerBud
12-16-2011, 07:54 PM
its hard to argue against the truth

NYGRealityCheck
12-16-2011, 08:56 PM
Fans still fill up the stadiums. People will still watch football games. There's no reason for the NFL to change the direction that they're heading with player safety. Players like Harrison and Suh have to adjust their behavior/gameplay or they'll just end up sitting at home with no-pay suspensions aka being useless.

NYG 5
12-17-2011, 01:45 PM
In slow motion, it looks more deliberate than in real time.</p>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUN5OG28-f4&amp;feature=related</p>


This is the same sort of hit Giants linebackersmade about 20,000 times when Parcells was running the team. </p>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xqtiQ4ou50</p>

no they do not, those giants gave a lot of forearms a,d threw guys into the astroturf. harrison doesn't use his forearm to deliver the hit, he uses his helmet like a ***got. just watch, its all helmet and he gives a slight push with his hands.

i can't wait until he breaks his own god damn neck, then we'll see what kind of touch macho tune he starts singing.