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View Full Version : Perry Fewell takes too much critisism when we lose. Let me explain



Marvelousmik
09-12-2012, 05:01 PM
I want to start off by saying I played 5 years of football. 4 at highschool level, and 1 year at div 3 college level. I stopped after my first year of college because I had to get surgery on a broken ligament in my thumb that took 2 years to fully heal. But the point I am trying to make is, in my 5 years of playing football, i can not remember one game that i lost where i said to myself "man, the coaches cost us this game". "Man, we did all we could, but coach Haden cost us this game. I can't picture myself ever saying something like that.

The only real exception is if the coach doesnt utilize his players properly. But with Perry thats not the case. He always finds ways to get his best players on the field and even the players will admit that. Kiwi stated this a few times during his locker room interviews.

I dont remember which game it was, but i heard one of the announcers from last week say "when you win, its the players, but when you lose its the coaches". And i couldnt agree with him more. At some time around this years training camp i also remembered one of the reporters asking perry what he did differently at the end of last year, and PF stated "not much". He basically said the players stepped their game up and that they were all in. This whole idea of him simplfying the defense is only in our minds.

Tuck stated many times that "the players" were better than how they were playing, and that they just needed to play as one. All in. Team first. The players love and respect PF. They knew that if they wanted to win, they were the ones who had to improve. Not the coaches.

Ive read a lot of criticism on PF after the Dallas loss and the one that stands out to me the most is "the defense was too predictable". Its a division game.There is not many things you can do differently that your opponent doesn't already know. In fact, i dont think there is going to be any blitz or play that the other team didnt already prepare for. Ware even stated before the game that its going to be 90% mental since they already know what we're going to do and we already know what they're going to do.

We lost because dallas simply played better. Perry can't make corey webster catch an interception that he dropped, or not bite on a double move. He cant make tuck tackle Murray in the backfield or make cruz not drop the ball. He cant Make rolle take a better angle when tyron loses a jump ball or make tyron not get beat across the middle on a slant to end the game.

I fully understand that the NFL is way more complicated than college and comparing the NFL to highscool is more than laughable. But if there is one thing they all have in common, its "at the end of the day, the players are the ones who have to play the game". And i think that is the key concept. However, maybe its just me. After all i havent really played the game at a high level so Im curious. Is there anyone here who played div 1, or have any type of NFL experience? If so, did you ever lose a game where you felt it was because of the coaches and not the players?

slipknottin
09-12-2012, 05:05 PM
There were plays against Dallas where Fewell was to blame. The slant to ice the game is on him.

Marvelousmik
09-12-2012, 05:09 PM
There were plays against Dallas where Fewell was to blame. The slant to ice the game is on him.

But was he the reason why we lost? And please elaborate on why that slant was his fault.

BurnerNYG
09-12-2012, 05:31 PM
But was he the reason why we lost? And please elaborate on why that slant was his fault.Lol *Crickets*

giantsfan420
09-12-2012, 05:36 PM
i think the d he called, a cover 3, on the slant play was poor considering tryon was on the field. if it was a cover 3 (YA and Slip have said it was, it is a cover 3 variation) then Tryon basically has his side of the field to defend himself. we also dropped tuck into coverage and rolle was supposedt o help on the slant, but bc we sent a nickel blitz I believe, Rolle got stuck between Witten and Ogeltree, which allowed all the room for the YAC to get the first.
Im no DC, but I woulda called something that dropped the LB's into the slant zones, and the corners and safeties playng a zone at the 1rst down marker (quarters zone). if u get beat for a 1rst u lose so getting beat deep isnt an added worry bc the result is the same; u lose.

but thats just my opinion. had Coe or T2 or Prince been in we may have tackled him short f the 1rst. Its just I knew Tryon was gonna get picked on there and i woulda helped him

GameTime
09-12-2012, 05:38 PM
There were plays against Dallas where Fewell was to blame. The slant to ice the game is on him.

yeah....he was supposed to cover the slot and blew it....
oh yeah....right....he wasnt out there..

KP even said it. They were all looking to be the hero and they blew their scheme and didnt play togther...

slipknottin
09-12-2012, 05:44 PM
But was he the reason why we lost? And please elaborate on why that slant was his fault.

No, but there are certainly times when play calls or the coordinator are at fault.

The call was a c3, with a zone blitz, (tuck drops into coverage, JWill is blitzing). Rolle has underneath coverage.

The receiver (olgetree is lined up wide, Witten is on the same side of the formation.

Olgetree runs a slant, Witten runs a vertical route.

QBs are taught to throw into the blitz, so JWill comes, so that is the side Romo is looking at.

Because the CB is playing C3, his job is to keep outside leverage and bail and stay deeper. Which means the CB can not play the slant.

Rolle in the underneath coverage has two receivers in his zone, Witten on a vertical, or Olgetree on a slant.

Rolle splits the difference, drops underneath Witten to take him away long, but Romo throws the slant and Olgetree gets the first anyway.

Tuck dropping had no chance to get that 10 yard depth to disrupt the throw.


Or we could argue that the dallas O Coord called a perfect play to defeat the giants call and get the first down. Either way.

Buddy333
09-12-2012, 05:44 PM
People don't want to hear about injuries but they do play a part in this. On top of that the healthy guys played bad. It was just a bad game by the entire team. I mean the offense didn't help things out much by dropping a bunch of balls and failing to run the ball.

slipknottin
09-12-2012, 05:48 PM
yeah....he was supposed to cover the slot and blew it....
oh yeah....right....he wasnt out there..

KP even said it. They were all looking to be the hero and they blew their scheme and didnt play togther...

Im not saying players dont have responsibility to do the things the play call requires them to do. Far from it. Thats one of the biggest issues the giants defensively have always had.

GameTime
09-12-2012, 05:48 PM
No, but there are certainly times when play calls or the coordinator are at fault.

The call was a c3, with a zone blitz, (tuck drops into coverage, JWill is blitzing). Rolle has underneath coverage.

The receiver (olgetree is lined up wide, Witten is on the same side of the formation.

Olgetree runs a slant, Witten runs a vertical route.

QBs are taught to throw into the blitz, so JWill comes, so that is the side Romo is looking at.

Because the CB is playing C3, his job is to keep outside leverage and bail and stay deeper. Which means the CB can not play the slant.

Rolle in the underneath coverage has two receivers in his zone, Witten on a vertical, or Olgetree on a slant.

Rolle splits the difference, drops underneath Witten to take him away long, but Romo throws the slant and Olgetree gets the first anyway.

Tuck dropping had no chance to get that 10 yard depth to disrupt the throw.


Or we could argue that the dallas O Coord called a perfect play to defeat the giants call and get the first down. Either way.
very well said.....but how did Dallas know that Tuck would drop into coverage?? Maybe JWill is supposed to get pressure. Maybe the passing lanes are supposed to clogged up with hands and bodies. Romo made a nice play.....
Its always a chess match. I dont blame Fewell at all for the loss.

slipknottin
09-12-2012, 06:01 PM
very well said.....but how did Dallas know that Tuck would drop into coverage?? Maybe JWill is supposed to get pressure. Maybe the passing lanes are supposed to clogged up with hands and bodies. Romo made a nice play.....
Its always a chess match. I dont blame Fewell at all for the loss.

I believe that JWill makes it obvious he will be blitzing. The part that is supposed to confuse Romo is the zone blitz. Tuck dropping in coverage and Romo is not supposed to expect that. I dont blame Fewell either. But everyone here either blames Fewell for all the defensive problems (like CWeb in C3 biting on a double move, that is completely on CWeb, did not play proper technique). Or they say Fewell isnt to blame at all, its all the players.

Im saying there are things where Fewell made a mistake, and there are things where defenders made a mistake. Neither is free of guilt, neither is completely guilty for everything, either.

BeatYale
09-12-2012, 06:08 PM
The play is called, then the play must be executed by the players. Many fans, even when there's poor execution, like to blame the coaches. The slant example was obviously a good offensive play for the defense we called on that down, but it could have still been stopped had the blitz got to Romo quicker. It's a crap shoot. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't work Fewell is an idiot. When it does work he is a genius.

GameTime
09-12-2012, 06:08 PM
I believe that JWill makes it obvious he will be blitzing. The part that is supposed to confuse Romo is the zone blitz. Tuck dropping in coverage and Romo is not supposed to expect that. I dont blame Fewell either. But everyone here either blames Fewell for all the defensive problems (like CWeb in C3 biting on a double move, that is completely on CWeb, did not play proper technique). Or they say Fewell isnt to blame at all, its all the players.

Im saying there are things where Fewell made a mistake, and there are things where defenders made a mistake. Neither is free of guilt, neither is completely guilty for everything, either.

that makes sense.....

slipknottin
09-12-2012, 06:13 PM
The play is called, then the play must be executed by the players. Many fans, even when there's poor execution, like to blame the coaches. The slant example was obviously a good offensive play for the defense we called on that down, but it could have still been stopped had the blitz got to Romo quicker. It's a crap shoot. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't work Fewell is an idiot. When it does work he is a genius.

That play call could not have been dependent on the blitz getting there because JWill makes itself known pre-snap that he is blitzing, Romo either will get the ball out quick, or have a blocker pick him up.

The idea of the blitz was to confuse Romo on Tuck's drop. And hope that Romo got the ball out quick.

But none of that matters that much because the giants defensively were overwhelmed numbers wise on that side of the ball.

RoanokeFan
09-12-2012, 06:14 PM
I believe that JWill makes it obvious he will be blitzing. The part that is supposed to confuse Romo is the zone blitz. Tuck dropping in coverage and Romo is not supposed to expect that. I dont blame Fewell either. But everyone here either blames Fewell for all the defensive problems (like CWeb in C3 biting on a double move, that is completely on CWeb, did not play proper technique). Or they say Fewell isnt to blame at all, its all the players.

Im saying there are things where Fewell made a mistake, and there are things where defenders made a mistake. Neither is free of guilt, neither is completely guilty for everything, either.


I trust you're not calling for Fewell's head.

slipknottin
09-12-2012, 06:16 PM
I trust you're not calling for Fewell's head.

No. Hes a good DC. I do wish the giants had more disciplined defensive players however. I really dont think the 49ers are more talented on an individual level than the giants defenders are. But the 49ers defense all does what they are supposed to do every play.

All the times the giants lose leverage, contain, etc. All stuff that just cant happen to be a top defense.

RoanokeFan
09-12-2012, 06:21 PM
No. Hes a good DC. I do wish the giants had more disciplined defensive players however. I really dont think the 49ers are more talented on an individual level than the giants defenders are. But the 49ers defense all does what they are supposed to do every play.

All the times the giants lose leverage, contain, etc. All stuff that just cant happen to be a top defense.

How much do we attribute to injuries in the secondary. Her I am thinking we finally have a pretty good linebacking corps to allow the secondary guys to play where they usually play, specifically Rolle, and in the first game we're playing the last two guy on the CB ladder.

slipknottin
09-12-2012, 06:24 PM
How much do we attribute to injuries in the secondary. Her I am thinking we finally have a pretty good linebacking corps to allow the secondary guys to play where they usually play, specifically Rolle, and in the first game we're playing the last two guy on the CB ladder.

Well, to be honest, from what I saw, Coe and Tyron were the best secondary players in terms of doing what the play call asked of them. Hosley played well in the slot too, but its difficult to tell exactly what is being asked of players in the slot. I need to watch how they use Hosley more to tell.

Rolle was his typical overaggressive self. KP I think is bored of playing deep constantly, so he is coming up more often to try to get involved in plays.

Prince I thought played well last year when he was on the field, he held his leverage and was generally where he was supposed to be. He will eventually learn that Rolle is never where Rolle is supposed to be, and he cant rely on him.

The more I watch Rolle play, the more I think he really should be playing either in the box, or only on run downs. He just does not do what he is supposed to do when asked to play deep.

YATittle1962
09-12-2012, 06:27 PM
Prince I thought played well last year when he was on the field, he held his leverage and was generally where he was supposed to be. He will eventually learn that Rolle is never where Rolle is supposed to be, and he cant rely on him.

The more I watch Rolle play, the more I think he really should be playing either in the box, or only on run downs. He just does not do what he is supposed to do when asked to play deep.

this is so absolutely the case

Rolle is an extremely undisciplined and not very smart player

very good athlete ....but that only gets you so far

the guy is out of position more than any player in recent memory

Marvelousmik
09-12-2012, 06:49 PM
Im saying there are things where Fewell made a mistake, and there are things where defenders made a mistake. Neither is free of guilt, neither is completely guilty for everything, either.

I just re watched that last play of the game a good number of times, and i agree, it wasnt the best play call. Who knows how it would have played out if J will didnt make it look so obvious. However.. fast forward this video to 8:10 and watch the 3rd down run before the last play of the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhPhn3jH4_I

The defense was designed perfectly for stopping that run, but because kenny phillips didnt properly contain the outside, dallas was able to get another play. Just look at how rolle shoots his gap compared to phillips.

I agree that all the blame shouldnt be placed on one person. coaches and players both make mistakes. But ultimately when a team loses, to say the coach cost them the game is unfair. From my experience when you lose, its mainly because "YOU" didn't play well as a team. The players have more of an impact on the outcome of the game.

Roswell777
09-12-2012, 09:13 PM
It's hard to apportion blame, and any criticism of Fewell will come off as revisionist, but there seems to be very little innovation in his defensive schemes. To the untrained eye it seems like he's going to make the calls and if his Dline is terrific, then the Giants have a good shot of winning. If not, they will look terrible.

When Belichick was here, there was innovation (and LT!). When Spags was here, there were innovative blitzes to get added pressure when the Dline was kept in check. Again, I don't profess to know more than these guys but I'd like to be surprised by his game planning and feel like we changed things up when things aren't working.

Parademon
09-12-2012, 09:25 PM
Yeah, the D didn't play great..but I firmly believe that if we could have run more effectively & rushed for over 100+yds, that would have kept Romo on the sidelines more & taken a few possesions away from their O & Cruz dropping 3 potential drive extending balls also hurt us badly. The O's inability to convert the Boley pick into 7pts was unacceptable & Wilson's fumble in FG territory also hurt us.

I take heart in the fact that we played a bad game & still only lost by 7. The G-men just need to correct a few things & get healthy & we'll be good to go.

ingoodshape
09-12-2012, 10:26 PM
sorry pal , i played high school football to ................. and your wrong this soft cover 2 defense , giants play they dont get .......... there always out of postion and can never make a play on the ball . they hardly ever bump the reciever at the line of scrimage , or jam them . and dont usually play man on man which they should . result is always give up big play on defense . sorry pal , but you dont know football !!!!!!!!!!!!!! and if you look at the Giant players they look so confused ............... all on the coaches

gumby74
09-12-2012, 10:28 PM
All i know is that i think of what Spags could do with the players we have today, and I sigh.

AntB
09-13-2012, 12:51 AM
It's little early for TC to take him to the parking lot but he's probably warming up.

Marvelousmik
09-13-2012, 01:09 AM
All i know is that i think of what Spags could do with the players we have today, and I sigh.

the same things hes been doing the past few years, right?

joemorrisforprez
09-13-2012, 01:29 AM
I want to start off by saying I played 5 years of football. 4 at highschool level, and 1 year at div 3 college level. I stopped after my first year of college because I had to get surgery on a broken ligament in my thumb that took 2 years to fully heal. But the point I am trying to make is, in my 5 years of playing football, i can not remember one game that i lost where i said to myself "man, the coaches cost us this game". "Man, we did all we could, but coach Haden cost us this game. I can't picture myself ever saying something like that.

The only real exception is if the coach doesnt utilize his players properly. But with Perry thats not the case. He always finds ways to get his best players on the field and even the players will admit that. Kiwi stated this a few times during his locker room interviews.

I dont remember which game it was, but i heard one of the announcers from last week say "when you win, its the players, but when you lose its the coaches". And i couldnt agree with him more. At some time around this years training camp i also remembered one of the reporters asking perry what he did differently at the end of last year, and PF stated "not much". He basically said the players stepped their game up and that they were all in. This whole idea of him simplfying the defense is only in our minds.

Tuck stated many times that "the players" were better than how they were playing, and that they just needed to play as one. All in. Team first. The players love and respect PF. They knew that if they wanted to win, they were the ones who had to improve. Not the coaches.

Ive read a lot of criticism on PF after the Dallas loss and the one that stands out to me the most is "the defense was too predictable". Its a division game.There is not many things you can do differently that your opponent doesn't already know. In fact, i dont think there is going to be any blitz or play that the other team didnt already prepare for. Ware even stated before the game that its going to be 90% mental since they already know what we're going to do and we already know what they're going to do.

We lost because dallas simply played better. Perry can't make corey webster catch an interception that he dropped, or not bite on a double move. He cant make tuck tackle Murray in the backfield or make cruz not drop the ball. He cant Make rolle take a better angle when tyron loses a jump ball or make tyron not get beat across the middle on a slant to end the game.

I fully understand that the NFL is way more complicated than college and comparing the NFL to highscool is more than laughable. But if there is one thing they all have in common, its "at the end of the day, the players are the ones who have to play the game". And i think that is the key concept. However, maybe its just me. After all i havent really played the game at a high level so Im curious. Is there anyone here who played div 1, or have any type of NFL experience? If so, did you ever lose a game where you felt it was because of the coaches and not the players?

Great post.

Captain Chaos
09-13-2012, 06:26 AM
Leadership is leadership, Fewell is on top and takes the blame as well as the fame. If you can seriously tell yourself that the D was well prepared for that game then maybe you are right....