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View Full Version : After further thought, I'm siding with Schiano on the last play.



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Cool Papa B.
09-16-2012, 04:30 PM
TC had some words for Schiano. Didn't like how his team pushed Eli on the last play.

Thoughts?

oldgiantfan
09-16-2012, 04:32 PM
Eli mouthed cheap shot when he got up and coughlin was livid - never saw coughlin get so angry

Cool Papa B.
09-16-2012, 04:37 PM
Can't wait for the press conf.

BeatYale
09-16-2012, 04:38 PM
I don't blame the old man. That was cheap!

BillTheGreek
09-16-2012, 04:38 PM
TC had some words for Schiano. Didn't like how his team pushed Eli on the last play.

Thoughts?

I Never saw that happened, in all the NFL games I have seen ! CHEAP SHOT ! ANY WAY GIANTS WIN BIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CowboysSuck
09-16-2012, 04:38 PM
I turned by Tv off damnitt, hope they will show it on youtube or nflnetwork or something

GMan-67
09-16-2012, 04:40 PM
yeah that was cheap ... just like the cheap shot on Hixon ... i went to Seton Hall ... no football, so as Jersey guy i root for the Scarlet Knights in football and now son is Soph at RU ... liked Shiano, but really cheap stuff there at the end

Cool Papa B.
09-16-2012, 04:44 PM
"you don't do that in this league.....guys can get hurt." TC

Agreed!

BigBlueAllDay
09-16-2012, 04:54 PM
Bascailly, as Eli and the Giants tried to take the victory kneel down to clock out the game, the Tampa Bay defense rushed the entire offensive line and knocked everyone back including Eli. That's basically unsportsmanship from the Bucs, who had their CBs grabbing Giants WR jerseys and holding them all game. If the Bucs defense wanted Giants jerseys that much, they should just go to Modell's instead of embarrassing themselves in an NFL football game.

CowboysSuck
09-16-2012, 05:18 PM
Sounds ridiculous, clasless clowns. Whats worse is that none of the post-game highlight shows even showed that last play nor did they show Coughlin chewing out Schiano. If someone could post a video (somehow) that would be awesome. Ill have to scower YouTube and such to find Coughlin flipping ****, should be funny to see

BigBlueAllDay
09-16-2012, 05:22 PM
Sounds ridiculous, clasless clowns. Whats worse is that none of the post-game highlight shows even showed that last play nor did they show Coughlin chewing out Schiano. If someone could post a video (somehow) that would be awesome. Ill have to scower YouTube and such to find Coughlin flipping ****, should be funny to see

You might catch it on a half-time/post-game shows for the later games, sportscenter, etc... But yea Coughlin blew up at Schiano even while they shook hands.

Duckdownman
09-16-2012, 05:33 PM
http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/coughlin-schiano-handshake-video/

(posted by empirestateg in another post)

Cool Papa B.
09-16-2012, 05:39 PM
Anyone knows what Schiano's response was in his press conf.?

jakegibbs
09-16-2012, 05:44 PM
TC had some words for Schiano. Didn't like how his team pushed Eli on the last play.

Thoughts?

IF YOU JUST GOT TORCH FOR 500+ YDS & 3 4TH QUARTER TD'S YOU'D BE A LITTLE UPSET TOO RIGHT? TAMPA BAY LOST A GAME THEY HAD IN THEIR HANDS. FINDS SHOULD BE IN ORDER FOR THAT DISPLAY OF POOR SPORTMANSHIP IMHO ANYWAY.

Ruttiger711
09-16-2012, 05:58 PM
Schiano's press conference he said something to the effect of "I didn't know that's how it's done in the NFL, but in college we play until the end"

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt, but now he's just a ******.

P_Simms_#11
09-16-2012, 05:59 PM
Anyone knows what Schiano's response was in his press conf.?

Yes. He said something to the effect of that it wasn't dirty and he doesn't know how they do it in the NFL, but that's the way he does it.

P_Simms_#11
09-16-2012, 06:00 PM
Eli mouthed cheap shot when he got up and coughlin was livid - never saw coughlin get so angry

Think back to TC and Matt Dodge after the DeSeana Jackson punt return game.

Cool Papa B.
09-16-2012, 06:04 PM
Schiano's press conference he said something to the effect of "I didn't know that's how it's done in the NFL, but in college we play until the end"

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt, but now he's just a ******.


Yes. He said something to the effect of that it wasn't dirty and he doesn't know how they do it in the NFL, but that's the way he does it.

Did he really say that? I've seen plenty of college games where they take a knee at the end. He's gonna learn real quick that you don't do that

Ruttiger711
09-16-2012, 06:10 PM
Did he really say that? I've seen plenty of college games where they take a knee at the end. He's gonna learn real quick that you don't do that

Yep - who knows maybe he's shouldering the crapiness of it all for his team, but it's an overall dumb statement.

Captain Chaos
09-16-2012, 06:14 PM
Serious case of unprofessionalism!

JustinTuckNYG91
09-16-2012, 06:15 PM
Schiano's in his postgame news conference said the following; "“I don't know if that's not something that's done in the National Football League," Schiano said. "What I do with our football team is that we fight until they tell us game over. And there's nothing dirty about it, there's nothing illegal about it. We crowd the ball like a sneak defense and try to knock it loose. There's nothing…if people watched Rutgers, they would know that's what we do at the end of a game. We're not going to quit, that's just the way I coach and teach our players. If some people are upset about it, that's just the way it goes. I don't have any hesitation. That's the way we play. We play clean, hard football until they tell us the game is over."

easterbeast
09-16-2012, 06:21 PM
i recall hearing that dude from philly talking...hugh douglas.
he said something like it an unwritten rule to never take cheapshots during a knee play.
shame on them.......

BigBlueAllDay
09-16-2012, 06:23 PM
Another question for the real Greg Schiano whose apparently on the boards, how is it "clean, hard football" when DBs are grabbing wide receiver jerseys for an entire game expecting to get away with it half the time because of replacement refs?

Greg Schiano
09-16-2012, 06:24 PM
Another question for the real Greg Schiano whose apparently on the boards, how is it "clean, hard football" when DBs are grabbing wide receiver jerseys for an entire game expecting to get away with it half the time because of replacement refs?

Talib didn't play clean, hard football today. He'll be paying for that in practice. No excuses for getting toasted by Nicks all day long.

BigBlue1971
09-16-2012, 06:28 PM
yeah that was cheap ... just like the cheap shot on Hixon ... i went to Seton Hall ... no football, so as Jersey guy i root for the Scarlet Knights in football and now son is Soph at RU ... liked Shiano, but really cheap stuff there at the end

+1 on all that!

SweetZombieJesus
09-16-2012, 06:36 PM
Did he really say that? I've seen plenty of college games where they take a knee at the end. He's gonna learn real quick that you don't do that

Maybe Eli should have chucked it deep for another TD and the franchise single game passing record and overall total yardage record. Then Schiano would be crying about running up the score.

I respected the guy but I hope this cheap shot crap bites him in the *** down the road.

BigBlueAllDay
09-16-2012, 06:41 PM
Maybe Eli should have chucked it deep for another TD and the franchise single game passing record and overall total yardage record. Then Schiano would be crying about running up the score.

I respected the guy but I hope this cheap shot crap bites him in the *** down the road.

But that's what they want you to do (to unnessarily put the ball into a bigger risk and possibility for a turnover). You can't really screw up a kneel down unless you somehow fumble the snap, but the d-line can't touch the ball before the snap because that's encroachment.

YATittle1962
09-16-2012, 06:45 PM
Talib didn't play clean, hard football today. He'll be paying for that in practice. No excuses for getting toasted by Nicks all day long.

the excuse is he just was no match fro Nicks one on one

to quote Nicks himself......"somebody better help that man......."

he came to the sideline saying that to his teammates and I loved every minute of it

and for the record Schiano was very respectful of Coughlin while being reprimanded ....I watched the whole thing go down

bigal1giant
09-16-2012, 07:01 PM
That's because Talib wasn't allowed to bring his gun to the game and try to shoot someone like he did in Texas. He's as big a ******bag as his coach!

zimonami
09-16-2012, 07:06 PM
the excuse is he just was no match fro Nicks one on one

to quote Nicks himself......"somebody better help that man......."

he came to the sideline saying that to his teammates and I loved every minute of it

and for the record Schiano was very respectful of Coughlin while being reprimanded ....I watched the whole thing go down
I watched too, and was very surprised how respectfully Schiano took the dressing down. He later defended his guys playing to the end, so he could have jabbered back at TC... but, he didn't. I'll give him that. Could have devolved into the Dteroit/San Fran spectacle last year.

Redeyejedi
09-16-2012, 07:10 PM
Talib didn't play clean, hard football today. He'll be paying for that in practice. No excuses for getting toasted by Nicks all day long.He looked like a *****. Holding on 2 Nicks like a Little girl and still gettin beat for almost 200 yards

YATittle1962
09-16-2012, 07:11 PM
I watched too, and was very surprised how respectfully Schiano took the dressing down. He later defended his guys playing to the end, so he could have jabbered back at TC... but, he didn't. I'll give him that. Could have devolved into the Dteroit/San Fran spectacle last year.

first thing I thought of when I saw the confrontation was how the rookie coach took his brazing from the old pro like a true gentlemen

props to Schiano for that

Rudyy
09-16-2012, 07:13 PM
He looked like a *****. Holding on 2 Nicks like a Little girl and still gettin beat for almost 200 yards Oh my God, Cruz and Nicks were getting held like they were children. It was so ridiculous.

SackingMyths
09-16-2012, 07:26 PM
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/09/giants_upset_about_buccaneers.html

Excerpts:

Locklear said three Buccaneers' linemen, though he did not recall their names, dove at the Giants center and guards' knees, even though the Giants had told the Bucs they were going to kneel out the clock

Locklear said after the play happened, some of the Giants linemen looked up and asked the Bucs players, "It was a cheap shot. Why would you do that?" Their response, Locklear said, was "Coach told us to do it."

Defensive end Justin Tuck took objection, too, saying, "It won't be forgotten."

SouthernGiant56
09-16-2012, 07:28 PM
Really, our o-line should have been ready for it. Bucs played dirty all game. Coughlin went easy on him.

Toadofsteel
09-16-2012, 07:39 PM
50 bucks says this will end up on the dameshek shame report lol...

Cool Papa B.
09-16-2012, 07:51 PM
I wouldn't't be surprised if Schiano's call TC this week to apologize about that last play. I respect the guy for what he did at Rutgers, and I find it hard to believe that he would play football like that. He knows he's in the wrong here (I hope).

FUUFNF
09-16-2012, 07:55 PM
Cheap is cheap, and that crap was cheap... No excuses.

tonyt830
09-16-2012, 08:02 PM
I mean I dont get it. Did Schiano and/or the Bucs defense actually think that the Giants were going to run a play? The Giants had nothing to gain by running a play. The game was in hand after Boley got the pick. We wont see the original miracle at the Meadowlands again.

Like Tuck said, it wont be forgotten. Karma is a *****.

Toadofsteel
09-16-2012, 08:03 PM
I mean I dont get it. Did Schiano and/or the Bucs defense actually think that the Giants were going to run a play? The Giants had nothing to gain by running a play. The game was in hand after Boley got the pick. We wont see the original miracle at the Meadowlands again.

Like Tuck said, it wont be forgotten. Karma is a *****.

The kneel down formation was invented specifically to stop another Miracle at the Meadowlands...

FUUFNF
09-16-2012, 08:04 PM
According to Schiano, that's how they do things in college... Well guess what Greg, you ain't coaching college ball anymore.

EnragedYouth85
09-16-2012, 08:04 PM
They were just upset and their feelings were hurt so they decided to play dirty. They figured they got away with PI's and holding penalties all game, why not take some cheap shots..

Beelzeboss
09-16-2012, 08:06 PM
It was an unprofessional classless move by a frustrated coach and defense. There are sore losers at all levels of the game folks.

Brooklyn_Madcat
09-16-2012, 08:08 PM
It was pretty dirty but these things tend to be remembered and usually come full circle.

Bigbluefan77
09-16-2012, 08:10 PM
schianos new jersey roots just showed.....

moosedrool
09-16-2012, 08:11 PM
And he clearly teaches their DB's to hold on every play since he knows the replacement refs won't called it. This guy is going to have alot of enemies soon.

Ruttiger711
09-16-2012, 08:17 PM
schianos new jersey roots just showed.....

Stop watching MTV

joemorrisforprez
09-16-2012, 08:20 PM
If the Bucs recovered the ball, they'd have a shot at the end zone. But still, somebody could have gotten hurt.

greenca190
09-16-2012, 08:34 PM
I still have yet to see a video of this. Until then, I think it's an okay call. They are down by one score, they want to win the game still, they need to get the ball.

moosedrool
09-16-2012, 08:40 PM
Schiano put his players at risk with that cheap shot. Payback is a bit**

BParcells777
09-16-2012, 08:41 PM
I guess a lot of you younguns do not remember the Pisarcheck handoff that wound up in our end zone

ITs like boxing, always protect yourself......this should teach the Giants a brutal lesson about desperate opponents

Cool Papa B.
09-16-2012, 08:45 PM
I wonder with everything that happened in NO with Payton, Will the NFL fine Schiano or at the very least look into what exactly he told his players to do.

fizzlesticks
09-16-2012, 08:52 PM
It's time for the shotgun kneel down to make a comeback.

derekunion28
09-16-2012, 08:56 PM
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Ruttiger711
09-16-2012, 08:59 PM
I guess a lot of you younguns do not remember the Pisarcheck handoff that wound up in our end zone

ITs like boxing, always protect yourself......this should teach the Giants a brutal lesson about desperate opponents

Nope - cant say I remember the Pisarcheck kneel down play

SweetZombieJesus
09-16-2012, 09:04 PM
The kneel down formation was invented specifically to stop another Miracle at the Meadowlands...

Well then maybe the NFL needs to invent a new formality to take the place of the kneel down... Maybe they can just notify the ref and not bother with the formality of the snap.

Or maybe Coughlin should start putting Carr in to take a knee.

SweetZombieJesus
09-16-2012, 09:08 PM
Nope - cant say I remember the Pisarcheck kneel down play

Biggest disaster in Giants history. The Giants had the game won. Back then there was no "victory" formation, this disaster caused its invention.

The Giants ran a play, the handoff was botched, the Eagles recovered and won the game... Which destroyed the season, got the coaches fired, led the NFL to force George Young on the Giants as a GM...

That play lead to the creation of the "victory" formation and also lay the ground work for the modern Giants because at the end of the year they hired George Young, drafted Phil Simms, and brought in a new coaching staff that had Bill Parcells on it.

BigBlue1971
09-16-2012, 09:09 PM
I mean I dont get it. Did Schiano and/or the Bucs defense actually think that the Giants were going to run a play? The Giants had nothing to gain by running a play. The game was in hand after Boley got the pick. We wont see the original miracle at the Meadowlands again.

Like Tuck said, it wont be forgotten. Karma is a *****.

the Bucs pulled that stunt cuz they were angry. they wanted to hurt someone and didnt care who! especially if the Giants already told them it was a kneel down!

they are dirty and sore losers!

FIFTY6G-MAN
09-16-2012, 09:10 PM
Hurt my players on a non play and I will **** you up!!!!!
http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000238890/polls_NO_CLASS_0924_600418_poll_xlarge.jpeg

Ruttiger711
09-16-2012, 09:12 PM
Biggest disaster in Giants history. The Giants had the game won. Back then there was no "victory" formation, this disaster caused its invention.

The Giants ran a play, the handoff was botched, the Eagles recovered and won the game... Which destroyed the season, got the coaches fired, led the NFL to force George Young on the Giants as a GM...

That play lead to the creation of the "victory" formation and also lay the ground work for the modern Giants because at the end of the year they hired George Young, drafted Phil Simms, and brought in a new coaching staff that had Bill Parcells on it.

Sorry I was being kind of a smartass - I know the play, just an odd one to bring up I think since the kneel down is in place to avoid that such play ....

BuffyBlueII
09-16-2012, 09:13 PM
Classless move by a classless organization.

jomo
09-16-2012, 09:16 PM
According to Schiano, that's how they do things in college... Well guess what Greg, you ain't coaching college ball anymore.And when he was coaching college, it's not like he was very successful at it. The guy is a jackass plain and simple. He'll hang around the job for a few years and get canned, then back to a third tier college football gig. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

nhpgiantsfan
09-16-2012, 09:17 PM
Eh. They played within the rules. Is it in bad taste? Yes. But it ain't the end of the world. We look real silly sitting here after a win whining about our QB getting pushed on is butt on the last play of the game.

Who cares, on to Carolina.

jomo
09-16-2012, 09:21 PM
Eh. They played within the rules. Is it in bad taste? Yes. But it ain't the end of the world. We look real silly sitting here after a win whining about our QB getting pushed on is butt on the last play of the game.

Who cares, on to Carolina.I don't think we're wining about our QB getting pushed, we're simply stunned at the lack of class shown by the new HC in the league. This is especially stark when you consider that before the game, the Giants honored Schiano's former player at Rutgers who was paralyzed. There you have it: class versus no class.

jimsgints
09-16-2012, 09:30 PM
Maybe Eli should have chucked it deep for another TD and the franchise single game passing record and overall total yardage record. Then Schiano would be crying about running up the score.

I respected the guy but I hope this cheap shot crap bites him in the *** down the road.
Yea, next time I hope Eli does that.. And if Schiano was so respectful at the end of the game he would not have acted like he wasn't in the press conference.

G4L
09-16-2012, 09:43 PM
Yea, next time I hope Eli does that.. And if Schiano was so respectful at the end of the game he would not have acted like he wasn't in the press conference.

I'd rather see the O-Line fire off the ball like they are tyring to get a goal line push and knock the whole defense back 5 yards.

greenca190
09-16-2012, 09:45 PM
I don't think we're wining about our QB getting pushed, we're simply stunned at the lack of class shown by the new HC in the league. This is especially stark when you consider that before the game, the Giants honored Schiano's former player at Rutgers who was paralyzed. There you have it: class versus no class.

I don't care about class. Football is a rough sport. I hope our guys are in the trenches being complete classless ****s.

Parademon
09-16-2012, 09:55 PM
We won people, get over it! We sound like whiney Boys fans asking for fines over the Seahawks's little 180lb WR Tate leveling Lee in the Boys/Hawks game today.

G-men's pass rush must do better vs Cam as he is way better than Freeman.

derekunion28
09-16-2012, 09:57 PM
just sdad sad sad

RoanokeFan
09-16-2012, 10:01 PM
http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/coughlin-schiano-handshake-video/

(posted by empirestateg in another post)

Just to show you the media is often wrong, an other news article quotes Schiano acknowledging he told his players to handle the play like that

CowboysSuck
09-16-2012, 10:04 PM
And if Schiano was so respectful at the end of the game he would not have acted like he wasn't in the press conference.

Huh??? very wordy

Sarcasman
09-16-2012, 10:20 PM
Talib didn't play clean, hard football today. He'll be paying for that in practice. No excuses for getting toasted by Nicks all day long.


C'mon, Coach. Give Talib a break. He grabbed and held as best as he could. Nicks is just too much for him.

FIFTY6G-MAN
09-16-2012, 10:24 PM
Eh. They played within the rules. Is it in bad taste? Yes. But it ain't the end of the world. We look real silly sitting here after a win whining about our QB getting pushed on is butt on the last play of the game.

Who cares, on to Carolina.Really??? GFY.

FIFTY6G-MAN
09-16-2012, 10:25 PM
I don't care about class. Football is a rough sport. I hope our guys are in the trenches being complete classless ****s.You GFY as well. We are a CLASS Organization . that is all!!!!

joemorrisforprez
09-16-2012, 10:26 PM
I understand that Coughlin is upset, but to be honest, the game was NOT over. If the Bucs can force a turnover, they are one pass play from tying the game. The field position at the time made it a possibility.

I really haven't thought of this scenario before, so at first, I felt it was a cheap shot. But the Giants should have braced themselves for the Bucs to attempt to go for the ball.

If people disagree, that's cool, but if the Giants were in a similar spot, I could understand if they made one last try to get the ball and hope for a Hail Mary.

Sarcasman
09-16-2012, 10:32 PM
It's much ado about nothing. Except for a botched snap there is really nothing the defense can do there legally and still get the ball. Of course blown calls happen all the time so I guess it is feasible that a combination of an illegal play coupled with a blown call could put the ball back in TB's hands.

By contrast, the game was over and your opportunity to make plays was over. You didn't make enough of them so doing that on a kneel down is pretty lame.

The coach in TB is trying to change attitudes in a losing franchise. I understand why he did it. I don't agree with the decision but he's trying to play every angle he can.

FBomb
09-16-2012, 10:32 PM
I defer to the professional HC that's been in the league for a while and has multiple rings. If TC says it's a cheap shot, then it is. It's just not done because people get hurt.

EmpireStateG
09-16-2012, 10:33 PM
It was cheap because the Giants weren't prepared for it. Nobody does that. You say they "should have" braced themselves, but why would they have any reason to believe that they would need to when this has happened to them 0% of the time every other time they've taken a knee to end the game?

ny06
09-16-2012, 10:34 PM
There was a one-in-thousand chance the Bucs were going to force a turnover on a kneel down. From the Bucs point of view they were doing everything possible to make a play. My opinion is I didn't like it. I believe in unwritten rules in the NFL, and they crossed it. The Bucs had 59 mins to win the game, and they choose the last few seconds to make a last ditch effort to turn the game around.

joemorrisforprez
09-16-2012, 10:36 PM
It's much ado about nothing. Except for a botched snap there is really nothing the defense can do there legally and still get the ball. Of course blown calls happen all the time so I guess it is feasible that a combination of an illegal play coupled with a blown call could put the ball back in TB's hands.

By contrast, the game was over and your opportunity to make plays was over. You didn't make enough of them so doing that on a kneel down is pretty lame.

The coach in TB is trying to change attitudes in a losing franchise. I understand why he did it. I don't agree with the decision but he's trying to play every angle he can.

I understand why the Bucs tried to do it..... if you knock the ball loose, you've got the ball on the 30 with about 10 seconds left..... it's a chance for 1, maybe 2 shots into the end zone.

I can also understand why Coughlin and the Giants might be upset about it......but theoretically, a turnover puts the Bucs in position to tie.

joemorrisforprez
09-16-2012, 10:38 PM
It was cheap because the Giants weren't prepared for it. Nobody does that. You say they "should have" braced themselves, but why would they have any reason to believe that they would need to when this has happened to them 0% of the time every other time they've taken a knee to end the game?

I get that.....that was my first thought as well (I posted in a different thread that diving at people's knees is dangerous).

But still....if the team recovers the ball, they've got a chance to tie the game.

I understand in the heat of the moment, people are going to be pissed.

I respect the hell out of Tom Coughlin, but honestly, after thinking about it....if the game is not over, it's not over.

BigBlue1971
09-16-2012, 10:39 PM
i thought it was a cheap shot by their defense!

EmpireStateG
09-16-2012, 10:39 PM
10 seconds left? The snap happened with :05 remaining. They'd have 2 seconds left if they were lucky.

FBomb
09-16-2012, 10:40 PM
Would have been funny to see the old coach lay out the young coach with a good right cross.

bELIeve_in_Giants
09-16-2012, 10:42 PM
Every analyst I've seen agreed with Coughlin. That includes past players and even Rodney Harrison.

Drez
09-16-2012, 10:45 PM
Dude, give it up. It was cheap and dirty. The definition of scumbaggery.

joemorrisforprez
09-16-2012, 10:46 PM
10 seconds left? The snap happened with :05 remaining. They'd have 2 seconds left if they were lucky.

You're right...it was 5 seconds left. Play was over with about 2 seconds on the 30 yard line.....so, the Bucs would have had a shot.

I'll admit it was surprising, and unorthodox.

My initial thought was it was a cheap shot. But, if you're a coach, and there's a chance to recover the ball and have one more shot at the end zone, then I can't call that a cheap shot.

A cheap shot is when you do something that has no material impact on the game....and the play was designed to get the ball.

joemorrisforprez
09-16-2012, 10:48 PM
Dude, give it up. It was cheap and dirty. The definition of scumbaggery.

Dude, it's a message board.... just giving my opinion.

Frankly, I can understand a coach trying to win a game. If the ball was on the other side of the field, or if we are talking about a 2 score game, it's a completely different story.

miked1958
09-16-2012, 10:49 PM
I understand that Coughlin is upset, but to be honest, the game was NOT over. If the Bucs can force a turnover, they are one pass play from tying the game. The field position at the time made it a possibility.I really haven't thought of this scenario before, so at first, I felt it was a cheap shot. But the Giants should have braced themselves for the Bucs to attempt to go for the ball.If people disagree, that's cool, but if the Giants were in a similar spot, I could understand if they made one last try to get the ball and hope for a Hail Mary.You know what now that you put it that way I have to kinda agree. Guys on nfl network hammered their coach for doing it but not sure I agree now

derekunion28
09-16-2012, 10:52 PM
it was sad no matteer how u twist it

EmpireStateG
09-16-2012, 10:53 PM
You're right...it was 5 seconds left. Play was over with about 2 seconds on the 30 yard line.....so, the Bucs would have had a shot.

I'll admit it was surprising, and unorthodox.

My initial thought was it was a cheap shot. But, if you're a coach, and there's a chance to recover the ball and have one more shot at the end zone, then I can't call that a cheap shot.

A cheap shot is when you do something that has no material impact on the game....and the play was designed to get the ball.

I'm not convinced that's really what it was. Sure as hell they're couching it that way, but it felt like lashing out when I watched it... especially after that call reversal didn't go in their favor.

FlipU4Real
09-16-2012, 10:53 PM
That was as bush league as it gets, there's no way around it

giantsfan420
09-16-2012, 10:56 PM
i also was very angry with how one of tb defender, barron i believe, basically took a running leap to stomp nicks foot. anyone else see that replay? he leaps up bc nicks and talib contacted each other to the ground. i know it was bad luck, but it just struck me as ****ed up how he stepped on nicks bad foot...he shoulda been way more careful...

joemorrisforprez
09-16-2012, 10:58 PM
I'm not convinced that's really what it was. Sure as hell they're couching it that way, but it felt like lashing out when I watched it... especially after that call reversal didn't go in their favor.

Like I said.....at first, I thought it was a cheap shot. But, after I considered the field position, and the score....if you can get one more shot to tie it up, to me, it's not a dirty play. It's definitely aggressive, and I can get why it would fire TC up. But if the tables were turned, and the Giants pulled that, and came up with the ball, I bet fans might look at it differently.

It will be interesting to see if the league weighs in on this.

FranklinsTower
09-16-2012, 11:00 PM
It was an old Broad Street Bully tatic. They knew they lost the game and went into a sore loser act and thug it up....classless!

greenca190
09-16-2012, 11:01 PM
You GFY as well. We are a CLASS Organization . that is all!!!!

Sure, I think the New York Giants are a well run organization. But the fans perspective of shouting out about how "classy" we are in comparison to others is just snobby and pretentious.

flimflam
09-16-2012, 11:02 PM
Yeah, I was furious about that as well. He intentionally unintentionally did it - he didn't try very hard to miss. Plus all the blatant holds and pass interference on TB sickening. That one play where Talib was on Nicks, it looked so bizarre as if Nicks were velcroed to Talib because he was tugging on his jersey so bad.

When an offense kneels to close a game, it is basic etiquette, that the games over and the winning team is running out the clock. That bush league move by Shiano is as classless as it gets and you don't rationalize and sugarcoat it by saying we play hard until the end - horse****.

greenca190
09-16-2012, 11:02 PM
i also was very angry with how one of tb defender, barron i believe, basically took a running leap to stomp nicks foot. anyone else see that replay? he leaps up bc nicks and talib contacted each other to the ground. i know it was bad luck, but it just struck me as ****ed up how he stepped on nicks bad foot...he shoulda been way more careful...

Have you ever played the game before? More careful....

The guy tried avoiding the tangle up as much as possible. I was really impressed with Barron during this game. Made up for the very poor Bucs secondary. Even Ronde was having trouble.

Even any hit we should be complaining about, it was the one where Andre Brown (I believe) was dragged down by his jersey well beyond the sideline. It wasn't a vicious hit by any means, but it was late.

SackingMyths
09-16-2012, 11:04 PM
i also was very angry with how one of tb defender, barron i believe, basically took a running leap to stomp nicks foot. anyone else see that replay? he leaps up bc nicks and talib contacted each other to the ground. i know it was bad luck, but it just struck me as ****ed up how he stepped on nicks bad foot...he shoulda been way more careful...

Dude. I thought I was the only one who had this cross their mind.

I'd hate to think Schiano went all Cobra Kai and "sweep the leg" on Nicks. But damn...that seemed too square a hit on Nicks' hurt foot to be coincidence.

CDN_G-FAN
09-16-2012, 11:11 PM
there's lots of unwritten rules in the NFL.

theoretically, there's nothing technically wrong with trying to score again with 30 seconds left and you've got the ball on your opponents 20 up by 3 TDs.

being technically right doesn't prevent you from being a ******. schiano is easily a ******.

but like Tuck said, karma is awesome and let's see what it has in store for the bucs.

StrahanTheMan
09-16-2012, 11:15 PM
schianos new jersey roots just showed.....

hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the Giants play in NJ.

Bing Crosby
09-16-2012, 11:17 PM
It was an old Broad Street Bully tatic. They knew they lost the game and went into a sore loser act and thug it up....classless!

Yup, basically he insulted not only the G-Men, but the entire NFL community. It has always been known by everyone who plays at this level that the "victory" formation is the ritual that is done to run the clock down. It's been that way as long as many fans have been alive, it's why the offense announces it to the defense. Hell even heated rivals after a hard fought game don't pull that crap. It's complete garbage.

They didn't go at the Giants like men, in fact they attacked knowing that the Giant's expected them to act like every other team has since 79. It was a cheap move. I wonder how many of you apologist would be all for this cheap gimmick if one of our boys had actual been hurt by this act.

Oh look Eli Manning is out for the rest of the year because the Bucs took a cheap shot... still I understand why they did it.... Check please!

flimflam
09-16-2012, 11:23 PM
Dude. I thought I was the only one who had this cross their mind.

I'd hate to think Schiano went all Cobra Kai and "sweep the leg" on Nicks. But damn...that seemed too square a hit on Nicks' hurt foot to be coincidence.

Lol. Love the "Cobra Kai" reference.

nhpgiantsfan
09-16-2012, 11:29 PM
Really??? GFY.

Wah, wah, wah. They pushed my quarterback. That schiano is a bad sport. Doesnt he know we're the classy NYG. Wah wah...

Non issue. Let's go play Carolina!

gxbhkt
09-16-2012, 11:29 PM
It was " Bush league "

RoanokeFan
09-16-2012, 11:32 PM
I understand that Coughlin is upset, but to be honest, the game was NOT over. If the Bucs can force a turnover, they are one pass play from tying the game. The field position at the time made it a possibility. I really haven't thought of this scenario before, so at first, I felt it was a cheap shot. But the Giants should have braced themselves for the Bucs to attempt to go for the ball. If people disagree, that's cool, but if the Giants were in a similar spot, I could understand if they made one last try to get the ball and hope for a Hail Mary. Even if Tampa recovered time would have expired and, no you can't see the Giants doing it as they never have.

CDN_G-FAN
09-16-2012, 11:34 PM
actually, it doesn't matter.

this game was his only shot at causing an injury/getting a turnover.

every team in the league now knows that these guys will contest kneel downs and will be ready for it.

it may have been a "smart" strategy once only, from this point on it'll just look lame.

Sundown
09-16-2012, 11:47 PM
That was a ***** move by Sciano and was nothing more but a sore loser move. i will forever call that team Tampon Bay.

tcseacliff
09-16-2012, 11:50 PM
I understand that Coughlin is upset, but to be honest, the game was NOT over. If the Bucs can force a turnover, they are one pass play from tying the game. The field position at the time made it a possibility.

I really haven't thought of this scenario before, so at first, I felt it was a cheap shot. But the Giants should have braced themselves for the Bucs to attempt to go for the ball.

If people disagree, that's cool, but if the Giants were in a similar spot, I could understand if they made one last try to get the ball and hope for a Hail Mary.

with all the haters out here, could you imagine , if the Giants did that? they knew he was taking a knee. take your lumps, that was unsportsmanlike. this isn't RUTGERS! it is a the NFL and there is a time and place for those things, and that was not one of them, they were mad that they were going to lose after a hard fought game. accept it. the giants lost last week, i did not see any cheap shot like that? (doing that to Romo) would feel so good ! but we didn't. there is a certain decorum by NFL that should be honored. college is another thing altogether! the players (Bucs) should put their NEW coach in his place! that wasn't cool!

tcseacliff
09-16-2012, 11:53 PM
That was a ***** move by Sciano and was nothing more but a sore loser move. i will forever call that team Tampon Bay.

same league as the cowgirls!

RagTime Blue
09-16-2012, 11:56 PM
Every play counts. That's why you snap the ball. Don't complain when a team plays to the buzzer in a one-posession game.

SackingMyths
09-17-2012, 12:16 AM
Lol. Love the "Cobra Kai" reference.

Never underestimate the power of a properly placed/timed Karate Kid Quote/Reference. Classic flick

PRGiant
09-17-2012, 03:39 AM
Every snap counts, that's why the formation is what it is, specially for the Giants since oh I don't know, once upon a time this happened :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML1Ixd3jiGU

PRGiant
09-17-2012, 03:42 AM
Biggest disaster in Giants history. The Giants had the game won. Back then there was no "victory" formation, this disaster caused its invention.

The Giants ran a play, the handoff was botched, the Eagles recovered and won the game... Which destroyed the season, got the coaches fired, led the NFL to force George Young on the Giants as a GM...

That play lead to the creation of the "victory" formation and also lay the ground work for the modern Giants because at the end of the year they hired George Young, drafted Phil Simms, and brought in a new coaching staff that had Bill Parcells on it.

Here is the video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML1Ixd3jiGU

Captain Chaos
09-17-2012, 05:15 AM
Unprofessional, it's like hitting a guy out of bounds or after the play has been blown dead.

Captain Chaos
09-17-2012, 05:17 AM
I've said before and I'll say it again. It's unprofessional, its like hitting a guy out of bounds or after the play is blown dead, the outcome of the game will not change.

OX1
09-17-2012, 05:53 AM
Dude, it's a message board.... just giving my opinion.

Frankly, I can understand a coach trying to win a game. If the ball was on the other side of the field, or if we are talking about a 2 score game, it's a completely different story.

Cheap shot no matter how you look at it. Hope he lets his guard down and a D-line trashes their O-line on a kneel down this season.

B-Red22
09-17-2012, 05:58 AM
that ish was bush leage!!!!

B-Red22
09-17-2012, 05:59 AM
Cheap shot no matter how you look at it. Hope he lets his guard down and a D-line trashes their O-line on a kneel down this season.


that would be some Karma right there.

RoanokeFan
09-17-2012, 06:38 AM
actually, it doesn't matter.

this game was his only shot at causing an injury/getting a turnover.

every team in the league now knows that these guys will contest kneel downs and will be ready for it.

it may have been a "smart" strategy once only, from this point on it'll just look lame.

I don't know about "smart" but his arrogance will be remembered

Imgrate
09-17-2012, 07:05 AM
If coughlin would've ended the game on a 99% chance field goal, then he wouldn't have had to worry aboutthis play

GMan-67
09-17-2012, 07:12 AM
Schiano is not long for this league, loved that he turned RU around, but clearly he does not have the class for the NFL ... even roid rage Harbaugh out in SF would not have done that

GMENAGAIN
09-17-2012, 07:14 AM
Schiano is not long for this league, loved that he turned RU around, but clearly he does not have the class for the NFL ... even roid rage Harbaugh out in SF would not have done that

eh, huh? TB beat a good Panthers team in their first game and should have beaten us at home yesterday. Schiano looks like he is going to be around for a while . . . .

nygfanmaybe
09-17-2012, 07:16 AM
If coughlin would've ended the game on a 99% chance field goal, then he wouldn't have had to worry aboutthis play

Yeah...but he didn't, so that's why they're talking about it. While I'm here, I might as well give my $.02. I have mixed emotions. I understand about unwritten rules and all that, however, I have a couple of thoughts.

First, I would think that one of the objectives of the "victory" formation would be to have your strongest, meanest, toughest blockers protecting the QB, who will be the only guy handling the ball. You probably should just go ahead and "play it out" regardless of unwritten rules. In other words...be prepared for what happened, which, IMO, they weren't. Kinda like an onside kick that helped kill us a while back.

Secondly, how can you expect a team that had just played as hard as they had played, and just lost-out on a decision that really could've gone either way, to not be a little ticked at the way things turned-out. Again, after witnessing that you would have thought they would have anticipated something like that.

However, after having said all that...I did think it looked kinda "bush league".

GMENAGAIN
09-17-2012, 07:20 AM
Congrats to the Giants for beating my Bucs. But your coach, players and fans are being a bunch of whiny crybabies. Lets say the Bucs actually succeeded in forcing a fumble, there would not have been any sort of backlash for what the Bucs did. Heck, if the scores are within reach, other opponents would start doing that as well. I know many of you disagreeing with Schiano would have defended your coach if he was the one to get his players hunt for the ball.

May be NFL should create a new rule that defenders should not even take the field once his opponent lines to to take a kneel.

Please identify one time in NFL history where a team has caused a fumble on a kneel-down at the end of a game.

Maybe next time, we'll fake a kneel-down and then have all of our OL dive at the knees of your DL.

Imgrate
09-17-2012, 07:26 AM
Please identify one time in NFL history where a team has caused a fumble on a kneel-down at the end of a game.Maybe next time, we'll fake a kneel-down and then have all of our OL dive at the knees of your DL.How often has it been attempted? You have zero chance of winning if you let the other team take an easy knee. Maybe a .01% chance of winning if you go hard like they did. I don't see why you wouldn't do it, if all teams did it in close games, i'm sure one would have won by now

nygfanmaybe
09-17-2012, 07:29 AM
OK...let's look at it this way. Anyone old enough to remember Marino throwing a TD when lining up for the "clock-it" play? Should they have been upset that Marino didn't just throw it into the ground like he was supposed to do?

I am not as ticked about what happened as I am about the fact that the Giants just assumed they would cooperate.

Still looked "bush league", though...but if a team chooses to look like that in an effort to try to salvage a miracle, I can't really hold it against them too much.

jomo
09-17-2012, 07:30 AM
Yeah...but he didn't, so that's why they're talking about it. While I'm here, I might as well give my $.02. I have mixed emotions. I understand about unwritten rules and all that, however, I have a couple of thoughts.

First, I would think that one of the objectives of the "victory" formation would be to have your strongest, meanest, toughest blockers protecting the QB, who will be the only guy handling the ball. You probably should just go ahead and "play it out" regardless of unwritten rules. In other words...be prepared for what happened, which, IMO, they weren't. Kinda like an onside kick that helped kill us a while back.

Secondly, how can you expect a team that had just played as hard as they had played, and just lost-out on a decision that really could've gone either way, to not be a little ticked at the way things turned-out. Again, after witnessing that you would have thought they would have anticipated something like that.

However, after having said all that...I did think it looked kinda "bush league".If it is Schiano's intent to move the end game from classy to unclassy, then the safest way to finish up is for the OL to fire out like a goal line play and the QB taps his knee. Game over, take the win and leave Schiano to contemplate better times during his marginal college coaching days. Let's get ready for Carolina.

Kruunch
09-17-2012, 07:39 AM
I'm amazed this is a debate.

Ruttiger711
09-17-2012, 07:47 AM
OK...let's look at it this way. Anyone old enough to remember Marino throwing a TD when lining up for the "clock-it" play? Should they have been upset that Marino didn't just throw it into the ground like he was supposed to do?

I am not as ticked about what happened as I am about the fact that the Giants just assumed they would cooperate.

Still looked "bush league", though...but if a team chooses to look like that in an effort to try to salvage a miracle, I can't really hold it against them too much.

not the same circumstance - marino's team was losing, of course the D should have been prepared.

Not a single fan saying the Giants are whining would take the same position if it happened to their team.

GameTime
09-17-2012, 07:52 AM
not an illeagal or cheap play. The oline was not paying attention so I guess Shciano had the right play called. Not what we usually see but the Giants should have been ready and they werent. No BFD really. Its over and done with

Buddy333
09-17-2012, 07:54 AM
TC was right. You don't do that. If they knew they where going to do that they sold have faked the kneel down and had Eli throw one more long pass and try to get closer to 600 yards. I mean hey, the game wasn't over right?

Cool Papa B.
09-17-2012, 07:56 AM
The excuse that the players are pissed that they lost the game and that's why they went after Eli is so beyond lame.

Losing is part of the game. Just like you have to win with class you have to lose with class. The Giants beat the Pats in SB 42 ending their hope of an undefeated season. In the final kneel down did anyone see a Pat player go after the ball or Eli? NO And if there was any team in history who had a legit reason to be pissed it was them.

"On any given Sunday you're gonna win or you're gonna lose. The point is - can you win or lose like a man?"

nygfanmaybe
09-17-2012, 08:06 AM
The excuse that the players are pissed that they lost the game and that's why they went after Eli is so beyond lame.

Maybe, but they weren't going after Eli just because they were pissed...maybe they were hoping for a miracle. I think it is equally lame not to have been prepared for it, but hey...that's jmo.

njsean
09-17-2012, 08:31 AM
I am 100% with the OP. If they were somehow able to disrupt the center QB exchange because we werent ready for it and ran it back, I'd would have said bully for them. The game is still going on.

I dunno...I'm not saying it should always be done, but this is a utilitarian game we play. if it works, it's praised.

Snappinnecks
09-17-2012, 08:39 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/43240/greg-schiano-is-just-way-out-of-line

Perfect! Couldn't have said it better!

easterbeast
09-17-2012, 08:49 AM
But that's what they want you to do (to unnessarily put the ball into a bigger risk and possibility for a turnover). You can't really screw up a kneel down unless you somehow fumble the snap, but the d-line can't touch the ball before the snap because that's encroachment.

YESSSSSS.............everybody should read this post

Diamondring
09-17-2012, 08:52 AM
I hate to say it but it was a cheap shot but then again, is there a rule that when the the winning team is ahead in the last seconds of the last game and they have the ball, the qb is suppose to kneel down to run out the last seconds of the clock? If not then that may not be a cheap shot.

RoanokeFan
09-17-2012, 08:57 AM
The bottom line is now we know. No other NFL head coach has done it but Sciano has decided to go against the tide.

nhpgiantsfan
09-17-2012, 09:03 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/43240/greg-schiano-is-just-way-out-of-line

Perfect! Couldn't have said it better!
Here is a quote from that article that I totally disagree with.

"To try to win it cheaply with a sneaky play after the opposing team (and any other opposing team you've ever faced or ever will face) justifiably believes it to have been decided is dishonest and dishonorable."

How is it dishonorable to do anything you can, legally I might add, to win the game. The game wasn't over. Yes, most teams just accept it, but they wanted one last shot to try and make something happen.

If the Giants did this and caused a fumble, and then with 2 seconds left tossed one to the end zone and tied the game. Everyone here would absolutely love it and call TC a genius. Everyone here knows it's true. If the Giants squeeked out a win off of a play like that, we would love it.

I just don't see this as a big deal.

GiantDadx3
09-17-2012, 09:07 AM
It was a "punch a guy while he's not looking" move. The Giants, just like all other NFL teams, Intercepted the ball to seal the game. Boley could have probably ran the ball in for a TD, but safely and respectfully sat on the ball. Schiano and the Bucs are in for some hostile meetings.

I don't know how much respect TC has from players and coaches around the league, but besides Belicheck and Shanahan, there aren't any other coaches walking around with multiple rings. I would assume that all teams who face the Bucs will treat them like bullies and punks that they are and will put them and Sciano in their/his place.

RoanokeFan
09-17-2012, 09:08 AM
?
eh, huh? TB beat a good Panthers team in their first game and should have beaten us at home yesterday. Schiano looks like he is going to be around for a while . . . . Why should they have beaten us? What was the final score?

Buddy333
09-17-2012, 09:11 AM
I think the Giants did a pretty good job of almost giving that game to Tampa. More so than Tampa being the better team. Anyway, the next time the Giants should just line up like they are going to kneel and then Eli should throw a deep pass for a TD while the defense isn't expecting it. The game isn't over right?

jomo
09-17-2012, 09:12 AM
What exactly did he do at Rutgers that was so special other than take that program from horrendous to respectable?
How many top 10 finishes under him? How many top 20? Did he leave behind any kind of force to be reckoned with in college football?
All he ever wanted to do was get to Penn State as Paterno's successor. Ha!
Rutgers was just a place to pass through on his way somewhere else.
Now the world knows what makes this guy tick.
Even his players were ashamed and embarrassed at the call. I can't EVER remember any players from any team calling out their HC over a classless play call like that. Can you?

RoanokeFan
09-17-2012, 09:16 AM
What exactly did he do at Rutgers that was so special other than take that program from horrendous to respectable? How many top 10 finishes under him? How many top 20? Did he leave behind any kind of force to be reckoned with in college football? All he ever wanted to do was get to Penn State as Paterno's successor. Ha! Rutgers was just a place to pass through on his way somewhere else. Now the world knows what makes this guy tick. Even his players were ashamed and embarrassed at the call. I can't EVER remember any players from any team calling out their HC over a classless play call like that. Can you? +1

Kruunch
09-17-2012, 09:21 AM
Eli mouthed cheap shot when he got up and coughlin was livid - never saw coughlin get so angry

TC gets angry when he moves his bowels.

njg85m
09-17-2012, 09:25 AM
I'm sorry but I'm inclined to take the side of one of the most respected, if not THE most respected coach in the NFL who has never publicly lashed out at another coach over Greg Schiano who has been in the NFL for all of 5 minutes.

If TC says something was wrong with it, there was something wrong with it. Not to mention that every single analyst i've seen, former coach, former player sides with TC on this one.

Diamondring
09-17-2012, 09:30 AM
We won people, get over it! We sound like whiney Boys fans asking for fines over the Seahawks's little 180lb WR Tate leveling Lee in the Boys/Hawks game today.

G-men's pass rush must do better vs Cam as he is way better than Freeman.And what if Eli got hurt cause of it and was out for a long time. Would you be this ****y?

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 09:31 AM
I'm sorry but I'm inclined to take the side of one of the most respected, if not THE most respected coach in the NFL who has never publicly lashed out at another coach over Greg Schiano who has been in the NFL for all of 5 minutes.

If TC says something was wrong with it, there was something wrong with it. Not to mention that every single analyst i've seen, former coach, former player sides with TC on this one.
Well I choose to use my own judgement and not blindly follow the opinion of someone else.
TC was definately wrong in his objection. I don't blame the Bucs one bit in trying to win the game. If the G iants were up by more than a score I could see his point. But to be "shocked...shocked" that a team played hard trying to win a game until the last play is rediculous.
Just because its "not done" doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
In a kneel down play, the defense should be trying to make the offense as uncomfortable as possible. The Giants just "assumed" that the Bucs would quit because others teams do.

RoanokeFan
09-17-2012, 09:33 AM
Here is a quote from that article that I totally disagree with. "To try to win it cheaply with a sneaky play after the opposing team (and any other opposing team you've ever faced or ever will face) justifiably believes it to have been decided is dishonest and dishonorable." How is it dishonorable to do anything you can, legally I might add, to win the game. The game wasn't over. Yes, most teams just accept it, but they wanted one last shot to try and make something happen. If the Giants did this and caused a fumble, and then with 2 seconds left tossed one to the end zone and tied the game. Everyone here would absolutely love it and call TC a genius. Everyone here knows it's true. If the Giants squeeked out a win off of a play like that, we would love it. I just don't see this as a big deal. Would you have seen it as a big deal if Eli had broken a bone in his hand. This is a customary end to a game that, until now, every team has employed and honored.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 09:36 AM
And what if Eli got hurt cause of it and was out for a long time. Would you be this ****y?
TC was dead wrong. I hate that stinking kneel down play where the defense does nothing. Get up on the line and make it uncomfortable for the offense to run that play. If they hit Eli and he fumbled we would be talking about what a great play it was by TB. And how stupid we were for not being ready for it.
Frankly, I expect my team to do the same thing when the other team is kneeling down as well.

gumby74
09-17-2012, 09:37 AM
Would have been funny to see the old coach lay out the young coach with a good right cross. When Happy Gilmore gets punched out by Bob Barker ....

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 09:42 AM
Would you have seen it as a big deal if Eli had broken a bone in his hand. This is a customary end to a game that, until now, every team has employed and honored.
I respectfully, but COMPLETELY disagree. I'm sick of defenses standing around and letting a QB kneel down and watch a team lose. Make it a difficult thing to do as far as I'm concerned. It was clear that they were going to challenge the kneel down play with the way they lined up. The Giants were cuaght with their pants down and thats on TC. If Eli fumbled and it was returned for a TD it would have been considered a great defensive play.
To complain (and I say whine) about a team NOT being willing to lie down and make it easy to kneel down is rediculous.
Go friggin play football.
I have NO problem with the Bucs on that play.

njg85m
09-17-2012, 09:46 AM
Well I choose to use my own judgement and not blindly follow the opinion of someone else.
TC was definately wrong in his objection. I don't blame the Bucs one bit in trying to win the game. If the G iants were up by more than a score I could see his point. But to be "shocked...shocked" that a team played hard trying to win a game until the last play is rediculous.
Just because its "not done" doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
In a kneel down play, the defense should be trying to make the offense as uncomfortable as possible. The Giants just "assumed" that the Bucs would quit because others teams do.

There's a difference between "blindly following" somebody than there is actually valuing the opinion of dozens of people who played the game their entire lives and overwhelmingly side with TC here.

Trying to disrupt the Center/QB exchange is one thing, happens here and there. Not often, but it happens.

Leaping over the line onto the QB and also throwing a 300 lb center onto the QB after he took a knee and the play is already dead is a completely different story, and that's what happened here. That's why I, TC, and just about everyone else in the football community was pissed. You'd be singing a different tune if Baas lands on Eli's knee and he's out for the year because of a cheap shot, which this was.

Teams don't do this in the Super Bowl for Christ's sake.

If there was nothing wrong with this, we would be back to the days where the QB takes a snap from the shotgun and dives on the ground to kill the clock.

Ruttiger711
09-17-2012, 09:48 AM
I'm just now interested to see what happens against any team that TB plays when and if they go for their own kneel down.

Diamondring
09-17-2012, 09:49 AM
TC was dead wrong. I hate that stinking kneel down play where the defense does nothing. Get up on the line and make it uncomfortable for the offense to run that play. If they hit Eli and he fumbled we would be talking about what a great play it was by TB. And how stupid we were for not being ready for it.
Frankly, I expect my team to do the same thing when the other team is kneeling down as well.Look, I blame you for Eli throwing those 3 ints. You said you don't care if Eli threw 3 ints long as we win the game. I hope you never say somethnig like that again. It could jinx out team. I was just joking. Well you could be right but TC was not in the wrong cause I think that he knows that the Buck's coach knows that when the opposition has the ball and they in the lead, they kneel down. As a result that was a cheap show and it could have injured Eli.

Parademon
09-17-2012, 09:52 AM
And what if Eli got hurt cause of it and was out for a long time. Would you be this ****y?

OK, I'll play the 'what if" game.

"What if" the Bucs bull rush would have caused the center to have muffed the snap or "what if'" Eli had muffed the snap & the Bucs recover the ball & take it in for a TD? Sorry, I agree with the HC Shiano's philosphy, you play hard all 60 minutes regardless of the score & until the clock reads 00:00!

If the score was 37-10, then yeah, Id have a big problem with it, but it was a 1 score game with 5 ticks on the clock. You don't concede victory in that situation.

GameTime
09-17-2012, 09:52 AM
from the offensive side it was a cheap play from the defensive side it was a heads up last ditch effort...
is this really so hard to grasp???

RoanokeFan
09-17-2012, 09:53 AM
When Happy Gilmore gets punched out by Bob Barker .... lol

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 09:53 AM
There's a difference between "blindly following" somebody than there is actually valuing the opinion of dozens of people who played the game their entire lives and overwhelmingly side with TC here.

Trying to disrupt the Center/QB exchange is one thing, happens here and there. Not often, but it happens.

Leaping over the line onto the QB and also throwing a 300 lb center onto the QB after he took a knee and the play is already dead is a completely different story, and that's what happened here. That's why I, TC, and just about everyone else in the football community was pissed. You'd be singing a different tune if Baas lands on Eli's knee and he's out for the year because of a cheap shot, which this was.

Teams don't do this in the Super Bowl for Christ's sake.

If there was nothing wrong with this, we would be back to the days where the QB takes a snap from the shotgun and dives on the ground to kill the clock.

The reason teams take a knee is not some measure of sportsmanship. They take a knee so they don't risk a fumble. I hate that friggin kneel down. In my view the defense needs to make that play much harder to run. When its lets safe, there is a greater chance of a turnover.
I hope this is an inspiration for EVERY NFL team, especially ours, not to simply lie down and let the other team win.
The "how dare you play hard on every play" complaint is pure bull****.
Quite honestly, Tampa played that the way it needs to be played.

And what happens if there is even a slight bobble of the snap, which also happens on occasion? They could create a fumble with that play you just described.

GMENAGAIN
09-17-2012, 09:54 AM
Poor choice of words . . . . How about: They gave the defending SB champs everything they could handle in their own building?

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 09:54 AM
I'm just now interested to see what happens against any team that TB plays when and if they go for their own kneel down.
If it gets them to to anything that risks the ball more than now, then this play will have been effective.

GMENAGAIN
09-17-2012, 09:56 AM
How often has it been attempted? You have zero chance of winning if you let the other team take an easy knee. Maybe a .01% chance of winning if you go hard like they did. I don't see why you wouldn't do it, if all teams did it in close games, i'm sure one would have won by now
So to translate . . . . no team has ever caused a fumble in a kneel-down situation in the history of the NFL.

Thank you.

GameTime
09-17-2012, 09:58 AM
The reason teams take a knee is not some measure of sportsmanship. They take a knee so they don't risk a fumble. I hate that friggin kneel down. In my view the defense needs to make that play much harder to run. When its lets safe, there is a greater chance of a turnover.
I hope this is an inspiration for EVERY NFL team, especially ours, not to simply lie down and let the other team win.
The "how dare you play hard on every play" complaint is pure bull****.
Quite honestly, Tampa played that the way it needs to be played.

And what happens if there is even a slight bobble of the snap, which also happens on occasion? They could create a fumble with that play you just described.
it only makes sense if you are down by 1 score.....which they were...I get that. But the kneel down has its place....no doubt about that....

tcseacliff
09-17-2012, 10:00 AM
Every snap counts, that's why the formation is what it is, specially for the Giants since oh I don't know, once upon a time this happened :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML1Ixd3jiGU

see your point, a little, but in 1978 was clearly a fumble.so yeah, you jump on it but Sunday's game you knew they were taking a knee,you knew they were taking a knee, the bucs knew they were taking a knee, they just chose to take a very cheap shot with the clock down to almost nothing, they knew it! thug football! !

njg85m
09-17-2012, 10:00 AM
The "how dare you play hard on every play" complaint is pure bull****.
Quite honestly, Tampa played that the way it needs to be played.

And what happens if there is even a slight bobble of the snap, which also happens on occasion? They could create a fumble with that play you just described.

Please explain to me how come they didn't "play hard" at the end of the half and throw Baas onto Eli that time as well when we also kneeled? I'd love to understand the difference if it's all about "playing hard every snap".

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 10:01 AM
it only makes sense if you are down by 1 score.....which they were...I get that. But the kneel down has its place....no doubt about that....
As I said a few posts ago, if they were down by more than one score I could see TC's argument. But even with a slight bobble of the snap, (and the likelihood of that is increased if a QB knows the defense is coming after him) they could make a play and create a fumble.
No sir, I don't blame them for playing that one as hard as they can. Its not like they pretended to take it casual and then went after Eli. They lined up like they were going after the QB and we got caught with our pants down. It wasn't the Bucs that created a threat to an injury to Eli, it was our unprepared O line.

RoanokeFan
09-17-2012, 10:03 AM
I respectfully, but COMPLETELY disagree. I'm sick of defenses standing around and letting a QB kneel down and watch a team lose. Make it a difficult thing to do as far as I'm concerned. It was clear that they were going to challenge the kneel down play with the way they lined up. The Giants were cuaght with their pants down and thats on TC. If Eli fumbled and it was returned for a TD it would have been considered a great defensive play. To complain (and I say whine) about a team NOT being willing to lie down and make it easy to kneel down is rediculous. Go friggin play football. I have NO problem with the Bucs on that play. We will agree to disagree

Ghost of Gruden
09-17-2012, 10:04 AM
I am not surprised several former players and coaches agree with Schiano's decision, including Antonio Pierce.

Diamondring
09-17-2012, 10:05 AM
OK, I'll play the 'what if" game.

"What if" the Bucs bull rush would have caused the center to have muffed the snap or "what if'" Eli had muffed the snap & the Bucs recover the ball & take it in for a TD? Sorry, I agree with the HC Shiano's philosphy, you play hard all 60 minutes regardless of the score & until the clock reads 00:00!

If the score was 37-10, then yeah, Id have a big problem with it, but it was a 1 score game with 5 ticks on the clock. You don't concede victory in that situation.You can say sorry all you want. Eli was kneeling down giving himself up and they should have thrown the flag and suspend Buc's players. As for that if game, then if what you have said is right, then there should be no more fair catches etc then.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 10:05 AM
Please explain to me how come they didn't "play hard" at the end of the half and throw Baas onto Eli that time as well when we also kneeled? I'd love to understand the difference if it's all about "playing hard every snap".
So your argument is that since they didn't play hard on a play in the first half, its dirty to play hard at the end of the 2nd half?
I have no idea why they did anything they did. At the end of the game its make a play or lose. Not the same in the 2nd quarter. Who knows and its not relevant.
Point is that they did not disguise what they were intending to do. The lined up aggressively and we should have seen it coming. It was our failing that Eli got hit and TC will probably never admit that.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 10:07 AM
We will agree to disagree
Didn't you hate watching Romo take 3 knees last week while we stood around on defense and watched?
I friggin hate that aspect of the NFL.
Make him think about getting that snap absolutely cleanly. Now we just let them win. Well the Bucs decided not to and I have no problem with that.

tcseacliff
09-17-2012, 10:08 AM
As I said a few posts ago, if they were down by more than one score I could see TC's argument. But even with a slight bobble of the snap, (and the likelihood of that is increased if a QB knows the defense is coming after him) they could make a play and create a fumble.
No sir, I don't blame them for playing that one as hard as they can. Its not like they pretended to take it casual and then went after Eli. They lined up like they were going after the QB and we got caught with our pants down. It wasn't the Bucs that created a threat to an injury to Eli, it was our unprepared O line.

maybe if there is a chance of scoring, but there was not enough time left, which is why Eli took the knee, and the giants were the one's that were close enough to score, and were the one's with the possession. plain and simple , cheap shot ! if there was more time , the giants themselves would have went for it !
the problem I am seeing is they way society is, people in general are looking for more violence, thug sh*t! ! does not belong in the NFL!

TroyArcher
09-17-2012, 10:09 AM
I understand that Coughlin is upset, but to be honest, the game was NOT over. If the Bucs can force a turnover, they are one pass play from tying the game. The field position at the time made it a possibility.

I really haven't thought of this scenario before, so at first, I felt it was a cheap shot. But the Giants should have braced themselves for the Bucs to attempt to go for the ball.

If people disagree, that's cool, but if the Giants were in a similar spot, I could understand if they made one last try to get the ball and hope for a Hail Mary.

Cheap shot, end of story. When the QB kneels you are suppose to pull up. Schiano is coming across like a real "Buddy Ryan" type punk.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 10:11 AM
Look, I blame you for Eli throwing those 3 ints. You said you don't care if Eli threw 3 ints long as we win the game. I hope you never say somethnig like that again. It could jinx out team. I was just joking. Well you could be right but TC was not in the wrong cause I think that he knows that the Buck's coach knows that when the opposition has the ball and they in the lead, they kneel down. As a result that was a cheap show and it could have injured Eli.
The fact is that lining up aggresively and going all out on that last play, INCREASED the chance of a turnover. They played it straight as far as I'm concerned. That was good football.
I friggin HATE our defense standing around while an opposing QB takes a knee.

Diamondring
09-17-2012, 10:14 AM
The fact is that lining up aggresively and going all out on that last play, INCREASED the chance of a turnover. They played it straight as far as I'm concerned. That was good football.
I friggin HATE our defense standing around while an opposing QB takes a knee.How was it good football when the qb was giving himself up?

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 10:15 AM
maybe if there is a chance of scoring, but there was not enough time left, which is why Eli took the knee, and the giants were the one's that were close enough to score, and were the one's with the possession. plain and simple , cheap shot ! if there was more time , the giants themselves would have went for it !
the problem I am seeing is they way society is, people in general are looking for more violence, thug sh*t! ! does not belong in the NFL!
What???? Its the friggin NFL. If a QB knows a team is coming after him on a kneel down play, he has a greater chance of fumbling the snap. Thats just human nature 101. And for a Giants fan to say that its impossible for a team to fumble the last snap and have it returned for a TD is the ultimate in irony.

The entire kneel down play was invented because that exact thing happened to us!!

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 10:16 AM
Cheap shot, end of story. When the QB kneels you are suppose to pull up. Schiano is coming across like a real "Buddy Ryan" type punk.
Thats crap. Trying to hit a guy to dislodge the ball is not a cheap shot. Its what I wish our team would do the next time Romo or Vick want to take a knee on us.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 10:19 AM
How was it good football when the qb was giving himself up?
You are trying to make it difficult for him to give himself up. You want him thinking about getting hit. Its a split second play. You want to hit the QB before he can take a knee. And any slightly bobble can make that happen. If a QB rushes to take a knee because a defense is lining up aggressively, thats a victory for the defense. That can lead to fumbles.

GameTime
09-17-2012, 10:22 AM
Cheap shot, end of story. When the QB kneels you are suppose to pull up. Schiano is coming across like a real "Buddy Ryan" type punk.
nah...I think Schiano is nowhere near the ******* Buddy Ryan was. Look what he and the Bucs did for LeGrand last season. Actually put him on the roster!!! That is not the heart of an *******......

Diamondring
09-17-2012, 10:28 AM
You are trying to make it difficult for him to give himself up. You want him thinking about getting hit. Its a split second play. You want to hit the QB before he can take a knee. And any slightly bobble can make that happen. If a QB rushes to take a knee because a defense is lining up aggressively, thats a victory for the defense. That can lead to fumbles.Still though, Eli gave himself up on the last play of the game so how am I trying to make it difficult for him to give himself up when the NFL has the rule? They have been doing it for years so what is the purpose of doing it? Well to get rid of the remaining time on the clock when there was no sense for the Giants to score cause they were in the lead.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 10:31 AM
Still though, Eli gave himself up on the last play of the game so how am I trying to make it difficult for him to give himself up when the NFL has the rule? They have been doing it for years so what is the purpose of doing it? Well to get rid of the remaining time on the clock when there was no sense for the Giants to score cause they were in the lead.
Come on. They have to play it like they want to make it hard to give yourself up. If a QB rushes the play because he knows they are trying to prevent the kneel down, then that can cause a fumble. ANY bobble can disrupt the play. ANY bobble. If Eli slightly bobbled that ball, the hit would have likely dislodged it. The kneel down and the hit were a tiny, split second apart.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 10:35 AM
I really can't believe the attitude some of you guys have on this. If Vick is taking a knee and we jump the line and dislodge the ball,or if he rushes it and fumbles because he knows we're coming after him, it would be hailed as a great genius play by our coaching staff. When someone doesn't just "lie down" and let us win, its a "cheap shot".
I just don't get it.

GameTime
09-17-2012, 10:38 AM
I really can't believe the attitude some of you guys have on this. If Vick is taking a knee and we jump the line and dislodge the ball,or if he rushes it and fumbles because he knows we're coming after him, it would be hailed as a great genius play by our coaching staff. When someone doesn't just "lie down" and let us win, its a "cheap shot".
I just don't get it.

I agree....like I said earlier....
from the offensive side its a cheap play from the defensive side its a heads up play...
not really hard to grasp......

giantsforce
09-17-2012, 10:38 AM
eh, huh? TB beat a good Panthers team in their first game and should have beaten us at home yesterday. Schiano looks like he is going to be around for a while . . . .I hope teams run up the score on him so he does not pull off that crap anymore. This was classless because the Giants were just not prepared for it. I have watched football for over 35 years now and I have never seen anything like this. Just classless.

Diamondring
09-17-2012, 10:39 AM
Come on. They have to play it like they want to make it hard to give yourself up. If a QB rushes the play because he knows they are trying to prevent the kneel down, then that can cause a fumble. ANY bobble can disrupt the play. ANY bobble. If Eli slightly bobbled that ball, the hit would have likely dislodged it. The kneel down and the hit were a tiny, split second apart.All of the things you have said means nothing cause Eli had the ball and was giving himself up so the Bucs should have been penalize. If the Giants did the same thing, they should be penalized cause it was a cheap shot. The rules give a player the right to kneel down at the end of the game and the Bucs violated it.

tcseacliff
09-17-2012, 10:39 AM
Thats crap. Trying to hit a guy to dislodge the ball is not a cheap shot. Its what I wish our team would do the next time Romo or Vick want to take a knee on us.

it is when the other team was just playing the knee. if Eli though they were going to do that , the whole line up would have been braced for it. you can't UN-ring this bell. and I never said anything about it being impossible to fumble a snap?? I said, if their was a fumble. but you don't cause a fumble by a cheap shot ! wrong! they lost and were babies about it! giants outplayed them! are you sure YOU are a giants fan? I grew up in Brooklyn!

GameTime
09-17-2012, 10:41 AM
All of the things you have said means nothing cause Eli had the ball and was giving himself up so the Bucs should have been penalize. If the Giants did the same thing, they should be penalized cause it was a cheap shot. The rules give a player the right to kneel down at the end of the game and the Bucs violated it.
how do you penalize a team for NOT breaking a rule??....Wasnt an illegal play. At least not I dont think so.....

JJC7301
09-17-2012, 10:43 AM
I've got no problem with what Schiano did -- play until the very end of the game. I think that the Giants blew it out of proportion because they weren't expecting it, but what's wrong with trying to get the ball with the clock ticking down?

njg85m
09-17-2012, 10:43 AM
So your argument is that since they didn't play hard on a play in the first half, its dirty to play hard at the end of the 2nd half?
I have no idea why they did anything they did. At the end of the game its make a play or lose. Not the same in the 2nd quarter. Who knows and its not relevant.
Point is that they did not disguise what they were intending to do. The lined up aggressively and we should have seen it coming. It was our failing that Eli got hit and TC will probably never admit that.

Re-read the thread. That's not my argument -- that's the argument that every Schiano defender, and Schiano himself are using.
I'm simply pointing out that if it truly was about "playing hard every snap" and nothing else than he would have done the exact same thing at the end of the half when we kneeled on it. Would he not?

giantsforce
09-17-2012, 10:44 AM
I really can't believe the attitude some of you guys have on this. If Vick is taking a knee and we jump the line and dislodge the ball,or if he rushes it and fumbles because he knows we're coming after him, it would be hailed as a great genius play by our coaching staff. When someone doesn't just "lie down" and let us win, its a "cheap shot".
I just don't get it.Theories and whatifs aside, I am sure you have watched football for a long time. Have you ever seen anything like this? It is a cheap shot because it is one of the unwritten rules in sports. There is very little chance for success and a very big chance of hurting someone seriously when they do not expect it. I would not like to see the Giants doing this ever even if we get the ball back.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 10:44 AM
I hope teams run up the score on him so he does not pull off that crap anymore. This was classless because the Giants were just not prepared for it. I have watched football for over 35 years now and I have never seen anything like this. Just classless.
Who's friggin fault was that? They lined up in a way that was clearly aggressive. Its not like they pretended to give up on the play and then came after us. For us not to be ready for it was completely on us. It wasn't Tampa's job to get us ready to play hard.

TC got pissed because his team got caught with their pants down. And he spewed this false outrage. The outrage was that even thought they lined up aggressively, our offense wasn't ready for it.

Diamondring
09-17-2012, 10:49 AM
Who's friggin fault was that? They lined up in a way that was clearly aggressive. Its not like they pretended to give up on the play and then came after us. For us not to be ready for it was completely on us. It wasn't Tampa's job to get us ready to play hard.

TC got pissed because his team got caught with their pants down. And he spewed this false outrage. The outrage was that even thought they lined up aggressively, our offense wasn't ready for it.Well since that was the case, then the Bucs should still be penalized regardless cause Eli gave himself up and has the chance to do that with the time remaining. They could have really hurt Eli or other offensive players.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 10:49 AM
Theories and whatifs aside, I am sure you have watched football for a long time. Have you ever seen anything like this? It is a cheap shot because it is one of the unwritten rules in sports. There is very little chance for success and a very big chance of hurting someone seriously when they do not expect it. I would not like to see the Giants doing this ever even if we get the ball back.
I couldn't disagree more. I hate that friggin kneel down play. I hate when we watch other teams do it to us. Finally a coach said.."enough". He wasn't going to stand around on defense and let a team kill the clock with no challenge at all. Good for him. I hope we have the same attitude from hear on.

And let me repeat...watch the play...there was nothing underhanded about that play. they lined up in a formation and a posture that made it clear that they were coming after us. We didn't react properly to it. If Eli had gotten hurt, it would have been completely on us. All they did was play it straight. They actually refused to just "let us win"

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 10:52 AM
Well since that was the case, then the Bucs should still be penalized regardless cause Eli gave himself up and has the chance to do that with the time remaining. They could have really hurt Eli or other offensive players.
They hit him a split second after he knealt down. The laws of Physics do not allow a player to stop in mid air when he sees that a player is kneeling down. You have to launch yourself at the time of the snap. If there is even a slight bobble, you can dislodge the ball.
You don't like it...take it up with Albert Einstein.

JesseJames
09-17-2012, 10:53 AM
the problem I see with what the Bucks did was that they knew the Giants were taking the knee the way all teams do in that situation and weren't prepared for a team coming after the QB, thats how players get hurt. I understand why they did it but I never saw that done in many years of watching this game but there is a first for everything. Unwritten rules eventually get broken but it won't make the TB coach very popular around this league...

Bigbluefan77
09-17-2012, 10:54 AM
I blame the o line for taking a play off

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 10:54 AM
All of the things you have said means nothing cause Eli had the ball and was giving himself up so the Bucs should have been penalize. If the Giants did the same thing, they should be penalized cause it was a cheap shot. The rules give a player the right to kneel down at the end of the game and the Bucs violated it.
You said the same thing in the other thread. You are dead wrong. You have to launch yourself at the time of the snap, if there is a slight bobble, you can dislodge the ball. You can't stop in mid air when the QB kneels down.
The league understands the laws of physics. So there would be no penalty.

Diamondring
09-17-2012, 11:01 AM
You said the same thing in the other thread. You are dead wrong. You have to launch yourself at the time of the snap, if there is a slight bobble, you can dislodge the ball. You can't stop in mid air when the QB kneels down.
The league understands the laws of physics. So there would be no penalty.Still what you have said means nothing cause the Giants were in the mold to submit and they have the right. Bucs violated that right and should have been flagged and player players suspended along with that coach.

Ruttiger711
09-17-2012, 11:02 AM
I hate the kneel down play too but for a different reason, because it means we are DONE, we didn't do enought to win. Just like TB was, DONE, over, finished and they chose to take a friggin shot anyway. They had as much chance as me winning the lottery - TWICE.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 11:06 AM
the problem I see with what the Bucks did was that they knew the Giants were taking the knee the way all teams do in that situation and weren't prepared for a team coming after the QB, thats how players get hurt. I understand why they did it but I never saw that done in many years of watching this game but there is a first for everything. Unwritten rules eventually get broken but it won't make the TB coach very popular around this league...
The NFL aint a popularity contest.
If the Giants were not prepared that was their fault. Tampa did NOT diguise their intentions. It was clear that they were coming after Eli.
Its not Tampa jobs to say.."hey guys...this is what we're going to do, so be ready!!!"

BigBlue1971
09-17-2012, 11:07 AM
it was a cheap shot by the Bucs and their head coach. they took that shot cuz they were angry Eli kicked their asses in the 3rd and 4th qtrs.

i doubt they even thought they could win the game with 5-6 seconds left even if they got the ball! their goal was to hurt someone with Eli in mind.

they should be fined. that play was the same as roughing the passer imo. Eli was already down when he was knocked back!

it was a senseless play by the Bucs and TC was right to call them out.

tcseacliff
09-17-2012, 11:08 AM
there's lots of unwritten rules in the NFL.

theoretically, there's nothing technically wrong with trying to score again with 30 seconds left and you've got the ball on your opponents 20 up by 3 TDs.

being technically right doesn't prevent you from being a ******. schiano is easily a ******.

but like Tuck said, karma is awesome and let's see what it has in store for the bucs.

That is not the case here. He is claiming to instill a don't quit attitiude in his team. You don't play to hurt players. That is the wrong mindset . The NFL is not like that. He should take that back to college!

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 11:09 AM
I hate the kneel down play too but for a different reason, because it means we are DONE, we didn't do enought to win. Just like TB was, DONE, over, finished and they chose to take a friggin shot anyway. They had as much chance as me winning the lottery - TWICE.
How many snaps are fumbled or bobbled in the course of a season? Plenty.
How many kneel down snaps are bubbled or fumbled? None.
Why do you think that is? Because the other team is quitting and there's no pressure from the defense.
Now are you telling me that lining up and playing it straight on kneel down secenarios doesn't give you at least a chance?
the math would suggest otherwise.

bigblue58
09-17-2012, 11:14 AM
I understand that Coughlin is upset, but to be honest, the game was NOT over. If the Bucs can force a turnover, they are one pass play from tying the game. The field position at the time made it a possibility.

I really haven't thought of this scenario before, so at first, I felt it was a cheap shot. But the Giants should have braced themselves for the Bucs to attempt to go for the ball.

If people disagree, that's cool, but if the Giants were in a similar spot, I could understand if they made one last try to get the ball and hope for a Hail Mary.

Dude..you're out of your mind! If it was such an acceptable play, then why hasn't it ever been done in any playoff game or SB?
It's bush league because it's an offense giving itself up and not protecting itself from big hits its not expecting.
Ignoring the etiquette of the argument for a second, whats the first thing that happens the second a QB takes a knee? The whisle blows the play dead! So even if the ball does come out, the D can't recover the dead ball anyway!

Ruttiger711
09-17-2012, 11:14 AM
How many snaps are fumbled or bobbled in the course of a season? Plenty.
How many kneel down snaps are bubbled or fumbled? None.
Why do you think that is? Because the other team is quitting and there's no pressure from the defense.
Now are you telling me that lining up and playing it straight on kneel down secenarios doesn't give you at least a chance?
the math would suggest otherwise.

That's why I brought up winning the lottery.

I'm sure you've heard the expression the lottery is a tax on the stupid.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 11:14 AM
it was a cheap shot by the Bucs and their head coach. they took that shot cuz they were angry Eli kicked their asses in the 3rd and 4th qtrs.

i doubt they even thought they could win the game with 5-6 seconds left even if they got the ball! their goal was to hurt someone with Eli in mind.

they should be fined. that play was the same as roughing the passer imo. Eli was already down when he was knocked back!

it was a senseless play by the Bucs and TC was right to call them out.

When Tony Romo or Mike Vick are getting ready to take a knee, I'm sick of our defense standing around and letting them do it without challenge. I want them playing aggressively, trying to cause a bobbled snap or a fumble. I'm sick of the friggin kneel down play. I want them thinking about getting that snap perfectly and if they don't we will dislodge the ball from them.
If you guys are happy with our D line standing around, letting the other team win without challenge, then thats where you guys and I differ.

I hate that friggin "its over, just let them take a knee" attitude.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 11:15 AM
That's why I brought up winning the lottery.

I'm sure you've heard the expression the lottery is a tax on the stupid.
Tell that to Phillip Rivers last year. They missed the playoffs because he fumbled a snap when the game was in hand.

tcseacliff
09-17-2012, 11:17 AM
How many snaps are fumbled or bobbled in the course of a season? Plenty.
How many kneel down snaps are bubbled or fumbled? None.
Why do you think that is? Because the other team is quitting and there's no pressure from the defense.
Now are you telling me that lining up and playing it straight on kneel down secenarios doesn't give you at least a chance?
the math would suggest otherwise.


you sound like a NEW ENGLAND fan. and your sig is MA ! anyway just watched the fims, he hit ELI with 4 seconds on the clock! why are you defending this? in a 30 second clock yeah, you play, Eli would have played but 4 seconds! you can't defend thAT1 he was an a**hole PERIOD! WATCH: CHEAP F*CKING SHOT !

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000062738/article/tom-coughlin-greg-schiano-argue-after-giants-win

dezzzR
09-17-2012, 11:17 AM
When Tony Romo or Mike Vick are getting ready to take a knee, I'm sick of our defense standing around and letting them do it without challenge. I want them playing aggressively, trying to cause a bobbled snap or a fumble. I'm sick of the friggin kneel down play. I want them thinking about getting that snap perfectly and if they don't we will dislodge the ball from them.
If you guys are happy with our D line standing around, letting the other team win without challenge, then thats where you guys and I differ.

I hate that friggin "its over, just let them take a knee" attitude.They had all game to put up more points. Like NY06 said, the chances of them getting the ball back are 1 in 10000. Its not going to happen. The chances of injuring our players is much greater.

Ruttiger711
09-17-2012, 11:19 AM
Tell that to Phillip Rivers last year. They missed the playoffs because he fumbled a snap when the game was in hand.

I don't recall that being a kneel down in victory formation.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 11:24 AM
I don't recall that being a kneel down in victory formation.
Which is exactly my point.
They never fumble or even bobble a snap on kneel down plays. They don't because they know the defense isn't challenging them. They know the defense is letting them kneel down to win the game.
Put pressure on them. Make sure they know that if there is even a slight bobble they will be hit and have the ball dislodged. They will know that if the even get the ball cleanly they better hurry up and go down. If they did that, the % of snaps bobbled or fumbled goes to normal rates.
I'm sorry guys, Tampa played it right and we weren't ready for it. Thefact that they were aggressive increased (admittedly slightly) the chances of a fumble.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 11:27 AM
They had all game to put up more points. Like NY06 said, the chances of them getting the ball back are 1 in 10000. Its not going to happen. The chances of injuring our players is much greater.
I would submit that bobbled or fumbled snaps happen a lot more frequesntly than 1 in 10,000. And when they know that the defense is planning on hitting the QB immediately, it might even be higher than a normal play. If they fear that the defense might anticipate the snap count and leap the line.........
Well you know all the possibilities.
I hope this changes at least OUR attitude about letting opposing QB's take a knee unchallenged.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 11:30 AM
Still what you have said means nothing cause the Giants were in the mold to submit and they have the right. Bucs violated that right and should have been flagged and player players suspended along with that coach.
What the hell is the "mold to submit"?

If your point is that they knew they were giving themselves up by kneeling, I would say that the defense has the responsibility of preventing that from happening.

Diamondring
09-17-2012, 11:32 AM
What the hell is the "mold to submit"?

If your point is that they knew they were giving themselves up by kneeling, I would say that the defense has the responsibility of preventing that from happening.They were in position to submit cause there was no reason to keep on playing right? Also look at the play again and see if they also interfere with the snap wich is a penalty as well. Look at the play again and again.

Husky
09-17-2012, 11:32 AM
When Boley went down, there was 1 sec on the clock or so it seemed. Tampa, would have had to force a fumble and return it for a TD.

TheEnigma
09-17-2012, 11:32 AM
Who is Schiano to dictate how the league is going to be ran? When you go to a party at someone's house and 31 other people don't have their feet on the tables, do you think it's wise to do so before asking? It's seen as an act of disrespect to the other franchises in the league. Connections are everything in the NFL and stuff like this could leave you in a cold spot with other teams.

If he wants to continue doing this, I'm not going to complain but he shouldn't act shocked when he loses McCoy to yet another injury from a cheap shot by an offensive linemen or any of his other players.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 11:34 AM
They were in position to submit cause there was no reason to keep on playing right? Also look at the play again and see if they also interfere with the snap wich is a penalty as well. Look at the play again and again.
If they commit a penalty, they commit a penalty. You gotta do what you can to disrupt the play and create a fumble. I would try to anticipate the snap and dive after the QB before he can get the snap and kneel down. the worst you can get is an off side penalty.

And since when does the offense get to dictate to the opposing defense when its time to stop trying?

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 11:37 AM
When Boley went down, there was 1 sec on the clock or so it seemed. Tampa, would have had to force a fumble and return it for a TD.
You mean like the Herman Edwards play? Yes, we've seen that before, haven't we?
So we know it can happen.

Giants928
09-17-2012, 11:38 AM
Personally I wish they'd get rid of the victory formation and "taking a knee" to waste the clock at the end of the game. I prefer to see them just run the ball to waste the clock down. That being said, Schiano was being a sore loser and acting like a desparate rookie coach thinking his team actually had a chance to do anything even if they fumbled. There was no time for his team to do anything and just shows his inexperience in the league and has a lot to learn.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 11:39 AM
Who is Schiano to dictate how the league is going to be ran? When you go to a party at someone's house and 31 other people don't have their feet on the tables, do you think it's wise to do so before asking? It's seen as an act of disrespect to the other franchises in the league. Connections are everything in the NFL and stuff like this could leave you in a cold spot with other teams.

If he wants to continue doing this, I'm not going to complain but he shouldn't act shocked when he loses McCoy to yet another injury from a cheap shot by an offensive linemen or any of his other players.

So the other teams give up at kneel down time so the Bucs have to as well?
I would ask who are the other 31 teams to tell the Bucs when they can and can't play hard?

My hope is that every team will try to find creative ways now to disrupt that friggin kneel down play which is a stain on the NFL.
Its a completely stupid play, especially when its being done to us.

I want my team challenging that!!!

yoeddy
09-17-2012, 11:39 AM
My issue with the play is based on the reports that the Bucs were diving at the Oline's knees...

nygfanmaybe
09-17-2012, 11:40 AM
What if the QB gets pushed back by the center and doesn't have a chance to take a knee...but rather falls backwards, which is what happened yesterday, I think...but then when he falls, he fumbles the ball as he is trying to brace himself for the unexpected fall...and the ball is live, they pick it up, TD...

MH and I agree. Mark it on the wall.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 11:45 AM
Personally I wish they'd get rid of the victory formation and "taking a knee" to waste the clock at the end of the game. I prefer to see them just run the ball to waste the clock down. That being said, Schiano was being a sore loser and acting like a desparate rookie coach thinking his team actually had a chance to do anything even if they fumbled. There was no time for his team to do anything and just shows his inexperience in the league and has a lot to learn.
Maybe he watch some old Giants film...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-FI28rJamY

Ruttiger711
09-17-2012, 11:46 AM
Just have a feeling that Schiano will have caused one of his players getting blown up this year.

You don't hear any of the TB Lineman backing up the call - only thing you hear from them is that it's what coach told them to do " just following orders".

joemorrisforprez
09-17-2012, 11:46 AM
I am 100% with the OP. If they were somehow able to disrupt the center QB exchange because we werent ready for it and ran it back, I'd would have said bully for them. The game is still going on.

I dunno...I'm not saying it should always be done, but this is a utilitarian game we play. if it works, it's praised.

That's pretty much my point.....they were trying to knock the ball loose, which might have given them the chance to tie the game. So, on that level, I can understand why the attempt was made.

Again, if the field position was different, and the score was different, then "cheap shot" might have applied.

Like I said, I initially thought "cheap shot".....it was definitely aggressive, and definitely unorthodox, and I can understand why Coughlin was upset about it. But, I also understand why Schiano tried it. QB/Center fumbles have happened in the past.....so if you call a play with that in mind, I can't condemn it as a cheap shot play.

And technically, if it was a cheap shot, it would have drawn an unsportsmanlike conduct flag.

Giants928
09-17-2012, 11:47 AM
There are alot of what if's so what if Eli fakes the kneel and throws it to Cruz on a slant for a 70 yd TD. People would be sure to say that was cheap and unprofessional. There is a purpose for the kneel down and teams have a right to fight it, but it is what it is. The play was actually created to lessen the chance of a fumble and I dont think there has evern been a fumble when the QB was taking a knee to waste the clock. It has its purpose and it has all to do with sportsmanship, something which Schiano knows little of.

MOrehead, that video is the reason why they ghave the Victory formation now. Notice they werent using it that play. LOL

joemorrisforprez
09-17-2012, 11:49 AM
Interesting article on this.....Ron Jaworski and Mike Ditka both feel that Schiano's decision wasn't a cheap shot.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/old-school-nflers-appreciate-greg-schiano-approach-144657976--nfl.html

Ron Jaworski:


"There's no doubt that Tom Coughlin owes Greg Schiano an apology for the way he reacted after the game," Jaworski said. "And I will give you a real-life example of why. Remember the 'Miracle at the Meadowlands' with [Giants quarterback] Joe Pisarcik? Very similar play before the Pisarcik-Csonka fumble. The Giants were in victory formation, and Frank LeMaster, our linebacker, fires off [at the snap]. We were taught by [Eagles then-head coach] D ick Vermeil to play until the game is over. All of a sudden, a big showing match ensues. The only thing the Giants had to do was take a knee, and the game was over. But their coach, Bob Gibson, was on the sideline, angry because of what we did. They called a play to try and get a hit on our defense. Lo and behold, Larry Csonka thought Pisarcik was taking a knee, [Eagles defensive back] Herman Edwards picks up the ball, and we won the football game.


Mike Ditka:


"Tom's wrong about this," Ditka said. "You never go out with the intent to hurt anybody, but you do try to get the ball. As soon as the center snaps the ball, you try to create a fumble. Who knows what can happen, as crazy as the game is today? The game's still going on. Greg Schiano is bringing a different temperament to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and I like what he's doing. I really do. They're going to be a good team, because they do the little things. This is not a popularity contest -- he doesn't care what Tom Coughlin thinks of him."



As for Coughlin....I greatly respect the guy. I was supporting him when the majority of posters here wanted to throw him out on his ***. And I totally understand why he flipped out....because those are his players, and he's got their back regardless of the situation.

Giants928
09-17-2012, 11:51 AM
About cheap shots, I think the Giants were talking more about their lineman going at the Giants lineman's knees.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 11:51 AM
There are alot of what if's so what if Eli fakes the kneel and throws it to Cruz on a slant for a 70 yd TD. People would be sure to say that was cheap and unprofessional. There is a purpose for the kneel down and teams have a right to fight it, but it is what it is. The play was actually created to lessen the chance of a fumble and I dont think there has evern been a fumble when the QB was taking a knee to waste the clock. It has its purpose and it has all to do with sportsmanship, something which Schiano knows little of.

MOrehead, that video is the reason why they ghave the Victory formation now. Notice they werent using it that play. LOL
Tampa would have loved for us to risk the ball like that. We don't do it because it risks a turnover and a loss.
The kneel down play is not an act of sportsmanship, its an act of winning the game by not risking a turnover and running the clock. Opposing teams have an obligation to try to prevent that.

And yes I understand that it wasn't that formation. I already said earlier that that play was the reason the kneel down came to be. But if there was a push at the snap and the QB got knocked off his feet, that would increase the chance of a fumble. And as the film shows , they CAN be returned for TD's.

nygfanmaybe
09-17-2012, 11:51 AM
I think the formation was originally implemented with the understanding that the other team was going to be going after the ball. When they decided to just stop playing with ticks still left on the clock is where things start getting fuzzy for me. As I stated earlier, the biggest mistake IMHO is that the Giants thought it was over when the Bucs thought it was still on.

TheEnigma
09-17-2012, 11:52 AM
So the other teams give up at kneel down time so the Bucs have to as well?
I would ask who are the other 31 teams to tell the Bucs when they can and can't play hard?

My hope is that every team will try to find creative ways now to disrupt that friggin kneel down play which is a stain on the NFL.
Its a completely stupid play, especially when its being done to us.

I want my team challenging that!!!

There's a lot of things I want to do like stopping my father from sleeping in the living room when I visit his place because it's a hindrance to my activities but I realize who is on the top of the totem pole in this situation and respect that.

31 other franchises all agreed on how teams would handle themselves on the kneel play and as much as Schiano disagrees with it, he needs to suck it up and get with the program. The NFL is not Rutgers football and never will be.

Look past your dislike for a certain play and see how it isn't right for a new coach to walk in and call the shots of how things are going to operate. This is a potential slippery slope he is getting involved with here.

Diamondring
09-17-2012, 11:53 AM
Maybe he watch some old Giants film...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-FI28rJamYOn that play, it wasn't a kneel down.

Ruttiger711
09-17-2012, 11:56 AM
On that play, it wasn't a kneel down.

I know some think the Pisarchik play has some relevance to a "be prepared" arguement by it couldn't be further from relevance.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 11:57 AM
There's a lot of things I want to do like stopping my father from sleeping in the living room when I visit his place because it's a hindrance to my activities but I realize who is on the top of the totem pole in this situation and respect that.

31 other franchises all agreed on how teams would handle themselves on the kneel play and as much as Schiano disagrees with it, he needs to suck it up and get with the program. The NFL is not Rutgers football and never will be.

Look past your dislike for a certain play and see how it isn't right for a new coach to walk in and call the shots of how things are going to operate. This is a potential slippery slope he is getting involved with here.
Thats nonsense. There has never been any such "agreement". teams have just given up on that play until now. And I say its about time. I want MY TEAM to challenge Mike Vick or Tony Romo or whoever wants to take a knee without the defense trying to stop it.
Screw those guys. If you want to take a knee on us, we are going to do whatever we can to make that as difficult as possible. Thats what I want to hear from my Head Coach.

Giants928
09-17-2012, 11:57 AM
Funny how they ALLOWED Brown to score a TD earlier. Can't believe people are falling for the whole "it's not over til its over" BS this guy is serving. If he was holding that then they would have fought the Giants to prevent that TD.

Diamondring
09-17-2012, 11:58 AM
Tampa would have loved for us to risk the ball like that. We don't do it because it risks a turnover and a loss.
The kneel down play is not an act of sportsmanship, its an act of winning the game by not risking a turnover and running the clock. Opposing teams have an obligation to try to prevent that.

And yes I understand that it wasn't that formation. I already said earlier that that play was the reason the kneel down came to be. But if there was a push at the snap and the QB got knocked off his feet, that would increase the chance of a fumble. And as the film shows , they CAN be returned for TD's.Us? You are not part of us.

Diamondring
09-17-2012, 12:00 PM
Thats nonsense. There has never been any such "agreement". teams have just given up on that play until now. And I say its about time. I want MY TEAM to challenge Mike Vick or Tony Romo or whoever wants to take a knee without the defense trying to stop it.
Screw those guys. If you want to take a knee on us, we are going to do whatever we can to make that as difficult as possible. Thats what I want to hear from my Head Coach.And get players hurt? I don't even want that to happen even to the other team. Shame on you and you should be on the shame report.

Rich4114
09-17-2012, 12:02 PM
Hey, if this is the way the Bucs want to roll then that's fine. What is going to happen to them though is a retaliation. Sometime soon they're going to be running a kneel down formation and hopefully another team gives them so payback and knocks them around. Sure it's not against the rules, but what ever happened to sportsmanship?

To me, it was the type of crap some kid would do in Madden when they have clearly lost. Run around hitting the guys in the backfield piling up penalties until you get kicked out of the game.

If Tampa wants it to work that way, then I guess the teams they play should do it that way to them too.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 12:03 PM
I know some think the Pisarchik play has some relevance to a "be prepared" arguement by it couldn't be further from relevance.
It was a rebuttle to a poster who said that not only would Eli have had to fumble but it would also have to be returned for a TD. That video showed that fumbles can be returned for a TD and that it actually happened to us. I wasn't suggesting that it was the same kneel down formation.
Have you ever seen a snap bobbled?..........Me too.
Do you think that if we went after the QB from the snap and he bobbled the snap we could recover the fumble and run it in for a TD?..........Me too!
Do you think that if we are standing around on defense and let them take a knee and the snap was bobbled, we would have a better chance to recover it?......Me neither.
Do you think that if the QB knew we were coming after him on a kneel down play that it would INCREASE is chance of bobbling the snap?......Me too as well.

See....We all agree.

TheEnigma
09-17-2012, 12:05 PM
Thats nonsense. There has never been any such "agreement". teams have just given up on that play until now. And I say its about time. I want MY TEAM to challenge Mike Vick or Tony Romo or whoever wants to take a knee without the defense trying to stop it.
Screw those guys. If you want to take a knee on us, we are going to do whatever we can to make that as difficult as possible. Thats what I want to hear from my Head Coach.

Yes. Every team just magically decided that one day they would give up on such a play without any logical thought put into it. It absolutely has nothing to do with the odds of actually forcing a fumble versus the higher chance of risking injuries to linemen to both sides of the ball.

If Schiano wants to attack the victory kneel formation without consenting other coaches first, I hope he is prepared for the retaliation his defensive line will receive as a result. Schiano isn't prepared to submit but neither is the rest of the league.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 12:06 PM
And get players hurt? I don't even want that to happen even to the other team. Shame on you and you should be on the shame report.
If one team is playing hard and the other team isn't and someone gets hurt...who's fault is it?
If someone on our offense got hurt because even though we saw that they were clearly playing aggressively and we still decided not to (which is what happened) that would be completely on us.
They DID NOT DISGUISE THEIR INTENTIONS on that play.

bandwgn86
09-17-2012, 12:11 PM
I respectfully, but COMPLETELY disagree. I'm sick of defenses standing around and letting a QB kneel down and watch a team lose. Make it a difficult thing to do as far as I'm concerned. It was clear that they were going to challenge the kneel down play with the way they lined up. The Giants were cuaght with their pants down and thats on TC. If Eli fumbled and it was returned for a TD it would have been considered a great defensive play.
To complain (and I say whine) about a team NOT being willing to lie down and make it easy to kneel down is rediculous.
Go friggin play football.
I have NO problem with the Bucs on that play.

crap im agreeing with MH..

so many "soft" posts in this thread :)

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 12:12 PM
My issue with the play is based on the reports that the Bucs were diving at the Oline's knees...
If any players are just out there trying to hurt other players for the sake of hurting players, I agree. And thats true no matter whjat the scenario. But thats not TC's beef. It seems that he was just P.O'd about the fact that TB went all out on that play and Eli got knocked off his feet.
To that I say nonsense.

This to me its an interesting argument. I hate when my team gives up on kneel down plays. I can't now criticize other teams for not quitting against us.

njsean
09-17-2012, 12:12 PM
This is a situation where I can confidently feel that everyone who disagrees with me is just wrong. It's a fascinating study in subjective thinking based on the laundry color. If we did what the Bucs did last week against the Cowboys and caused a fumble and sent the game to OT where Eli won it, we would love it.

But since it happened to us, and our HC didnt like it, we boo it.

I don't support/respect any opinion that suggest players shouldn't do things just because they "DON'T" do them. Bully for Schiano for never let his players lay down. I also find it fascinating to observe how people question others' fanhood for not following the herd opinion.

SERIOUSLY? People disappoint me.

Ruttiger711
09-17-2012, 12:13 PM
It was a rebuttle to a poster who said that not only would Eli have had to fumble but it would also have to be returned for a TD. That video showed that fumbles can be returned for a TD and that it actually happened to us. I wasn't suggesting that it was the same kneel down formation.
Have you ever seen a snap bobbled?..........Me too.
Do you think that if we went after the QB from the snap and he bobbled the snap we could recover the fumble and run it in for a TD?..........Me too!
Do you think that if we are standing around on defense and let them take a knee and the snap was bobbled, we would have a better chance to recover it?......Me neither.
Do you think that if the QB knew we were coming after him on a kneel down play that it would INCREASE is chance of bobbling the snap?......Me too as well.

See....We all agree.

Not just you - Ive seen it brought up at least a half dozen times as an example of "what could happen". That and the Marino fake spike.

Look - It's up to Schiano if he wants to abide by the unwritten rules or not... And now everyone knows how he's going to play... If he was so adimant about it let the o know about it (yes i know yu think he did) and they'll be happy to line up for real.

That's not the matchup he was looking for though. He was being weasely.

Giants928
09-17-2012, 12:15 PM
Dude the game was lost, they had no chance. So what if a fumble happened 30 years ago or whaver. This formation has been run 1,000's of times since and noone fumble. Every coach and player in the NFL knows its purpose. The issue is sportsmanship (it's important to some people). It would have been poor sportsmanship if the Giants had pitched left and scored a TD if they had already had the game won. Coughlin is big on sportsmanship. There has been several times where he didnt even call a FG or run the score up on teams he was beating and ran the clock out because he has good sportmanship. So, he didn't like what Schiano pulled and told him personally. Coughlin is a great coach and know the game, I think he is entitled to speak his mind.

Morehead State
09-17-2012, 12:19 PM
You know I get the objection some of our fans have about this. We see a play where its always just a kneel down, where both teams have just assumed that the game is over. And then we see Eli knocked on his *** so some of us, including our HC call foul. I get what that looks like on the surface.

But let me just ask this. Did it bother any of you that we just let Tony Romo take three knees last week without any challenge? Why couldn't we at least expend the effort to line up, rush hard and make it harder for him to just take a friggin knee. Well it bothered me a lot. I'm sick of that friggin kneel down play and the defenses attitude about it. Guys bobble snaps all the time. But if we don't put any pressure on him he won't.

I want us to line up and force them to make that play perfectly, and feel the pressure to do so. If you guys don't feel that way then I guess thats where we all differ.

Giants928
09-17-2012, 12:21 PM
You hate when your team "gives up" on kneel down plays when they already have the game won?

bandwgn86
09-17-2012, 12:23 PM
id like them to change this "unwritten" rule thing on this.. it never should be acceptable by a defence to just accept a loss.

maybe TB's action starts the change.