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eLi MusT gO dEEp
09-20-2012, 09:54 PM
NFLN PBP man Mayock or whatever his name is [Not Nesslar] said Eli isn't an athlete, he's just a very good QB. When Eli ran that ball and only got a yard. I liked Nesslar's remark that "Well he was fast enough to beat those guys out to the sideline".

It's sad how today everyone thinks a guy is only good if he's "fast" when that's not the case at all. Being fast doesn't make you a better athlete than a slower guy. Dumb statement but there's tons of them being thrown out in every sports telecast daily.

fizzlesticks
09-20-2012, 09:57 PM
I don't know which is which but 1 of them seems like a complete idiot. As if he was reading from a teleprompter full of wrong info. As much as I hate to say it I would rather have Aikmen and Buck or even Collinsworth.

JustinTuckNYG91
09-20-2012, 10:05 PM
Mayock was a safety with the Giants and is not only a game analyst but a draft analyst for the NFL Network. Scary isn't it?

jomo
09-20-2012, 10:05 PM
He's an idiot. Eli is a world class athlete. He may not be a gazelle but that doesn't define an athlete.

slipknottin
09-20-2012, 10:12 PM
Mayock is one of the best in the business. I dont think he meant it as an insult. I think he was saying Eli is a pocket passer, which he is. Eli is not a scrambling QB, or a running QB.

Easy E.
09-20-2012, 10:24 PM
He's got a hard on for Cam Newton

Marvelousmik
09-20-2012, 10:42 PM
Mayock is one of the best in the business. I dont think he meant it as an insult. I think he was saying Eli is a pocket passer, which he is. Eli is not a scrambling QB, or a running QB.

+1.. I could have sworn this was obvious

JB456
09-20-2012, 11:10 PM
Agreed. This didn't seem to come off as an insult to me. I think he nicely put that the Eli was better than Cam within that same comment.

Bing Crosby
09-21-2012, 01:00 AM
Mayock is one of the best in the business. I dont think he meant it as an insult. I think he was saying Eli is a pocket passer, which he is. Eli is not a scrambling QB, or a running QB.

+1 You hit the nail on the head there.

joemorrisforprez
09-21-2012, 01:02 AM
NFLN PBP man Mayock or whatever his name is [Not Nesslar] said Eli isn't an athlete, he's just a very good QB. When Eli ran that ball and only got a yard. I liked Nesslar's remark that "Well he was fast enough to beat those guys out to the sideline".

It's sad how today everyone thinks a guy is only good if he's "fast" when that's not the case at all. Being fast doesn't make you a better athlete than a slower guy. Dumb statement but there's tons of them being thrown out in every sports telecast daily.


I think his point was that Eli doesn't try to win games with his legs.

repeatchamps
09-21-2012, 01:07 AM
He's got a hard on for Cam Newton

So many analysts love these running QB's. Steve Young is the only borderline running QB who ever won a championship and he certainly is not a RG3/Cam/Vick/Vince Young/McNabb/Cunningham type. Who cares if these guys are exciting to watch if they don't win championships. I just don't get the appeal.

RoanokeFan
09-21-2012, 01:10 AM
He's an idiot. Eli is a world class athlete. He may not be a gazelle but that doesn't define an athlete. I think they mean he isn't athletic which Snee, Diehl, O'Hara and Seubert used to say all the time.

eLi MusT gO dEEp
09-21-2012, 08:51 PM
The guy flat out said "Eli isn't an athlete, just a very good QB" so I guess I took that as him saying that Eli wasn't an athlete, just a very good QB. Eli may not be the fastest and the highest jumper blah blah but to say that flat out on national TV must have been a mishap on Mayock's part.

Mohann
09-21-2012, 08:56 PM
Compared to me he's a great athlete, compared to Bobby G. 3, not as much. Great athletes don't necessarily make good QBs

GMenOnDeck
09-21-2012, 09:01 PM
Look at his athletics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0Fzm0Rh-ZU&hd=1

G-MENBK
09-21-2012, 09:06 PM
I don't care that Eli doesn't run the ball as much like other QBs. He's getting paid to throw the ball, first and foremost. Could also be a reason as to why he doesn't get injured that often.

ashleymarie
09-21-2012, 09:13 PM
Look at his athletics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0Fzm0Rh-ZU&hd=1

Thanks for the vid.

bg79
09-21-2012, 09:19 PM
I really don't get the confusion with this. What he said was obvious, Eli isnt an Athlete but a very good QB. When someone refers to an "Athlete" especially when discussing a QB it means the ability to play multiple positions. Eli is there for his arm and his brain, not for his 40 time or vertical jump. There was no insult, there was only the stating of the obvious.

Mike Mayock is probably the single best analyst on all the football shows out there so it's a little crazy we got people going off on him about this.

Giants5699
09-21-2012, 09:25 PM
Eli is far from the most athletic guy in the NFL... but neither was Montana.

derekunion28
09-21-2012, 09:33 PM
thanks for the link

jintsfan666
09-21-2012, 09:58 PM
I really don't get the confusion with this. What he said was obvious, Eli isnt an Athlete but a very good QB. When someone refers to an "Athlete" especially when discussing a QB it means the ability to play multiple positions. Eli is there for his arm and his brain, not for his 40 time or vertical jump. There was no insult, there was only the stating of the obvious.

Mike Mayock is probably the single best analyst on all the football shows out there so it's a little crazy we got people going off on him about this.


This.

fizzlesticks
09-21-2012, 10:03 PM
ath·lete/ˈaTHlēt/
Noun:
A person who is proficient in sports and other forms of physical exercise.

Eli is an athlete, if that's not what he meant, he should have used a different word.

giantsfan420
09-21-2012, 10:28 PM
i think it comes down to how u define an athlete. is an nascar driver an athlete? how about a golfer? a bowler?

eli is an athlete, but he isnt very athletic in the sense of the scrambling qb. he looks like a great athlete to me when hes in the pocket or sliding from pressure and throwing a laser 50 yds, but thats just me. diff definitions for diff people, nothing to take too serious imo, plus mayock is awesome as an analyst

stormblue
09-21-2012, 10:33 PM
mayock is one the most knowledgeable people in the biz......
but his delivery is stoic and computerish and factish and boring.
and also has an absolutely annoying speech mechanism.

all that being said......relatively speaking , when speaking QB , eli is perhaps the least athletic QB
in the league , he is and always has been a stumble-bum. how many times has he tackled himself
just taking his dropback.
hey ,i love the guy , but the truth is the truth.

Marvelousmik
09-21-2012, 10:40 PM
The guy flat out said "Eli isn't an athlete, just a very good QB" so I guess I took that as him saying that Eli wasn't an athlete, just a very good QB. Eli may not be the fastest and the highest jumper blah blah but to say that flat out on national TV must have been a mishap on Mayock's part.

You need to calm down. It wasnt meant as an insult. Dont be so sensitive

BeatYale
09-21-2012, 10:45 PM
You're making a big deal over nothing. Eli isn't going to wow anyone in speed or agility drills, that's all Mayock was referring to when he says he isn't an athlete. It's got nothing to do with Eli's ability to throw the football.

BurnerNYG
09-21-2012, 11:00 PM
You need to calm down. It wasnt meant as an insult. Dont be so sensitiveYou know some of these guys on this board try to blow things out of proportion.

TheEnigma
09-21-2012, 11:12 PM
You guys seriously think Mayock likes Cam? You must of not watched all of the news before the 2011 draft then when he was one of his biggest detractors.

penguinfarmer
09-22-2012, 06:38 AM
You mean the moobs weren't evidence enough? Or do we need to have Harooni display it for us?

Captain Chaos
09-22-2012, 06:41 AM
I think Mayock was stating the obvious, you will not describe Eli as athletic with respect to other football players.

GCGiant
09-22-2012, 08:39 AM
Thanks, OP, for reminding me of the exact quote that caused my wife to call Mayock a creep. I believe I have heard it all, however, when anyone can look at a professional QB...a 2 time SB MVP...and say that he is not an athlete. I would like to see how Mayock's passes compare to Eli's. Oh...wait...it doesn't take an athlete to throw a football 60 yards in the air accurately. Oh...sorry...my bad.

What about a guy that plays 3 sports in high school? Not only did Eli play 3 sports in high school...at a school with over 7K in enrollment...he lettered 4 years in football, 4 years in basketball, and 2 years in baseball. No...not an athlete there. He just lettered as a freshmen in basketball because of his dad's name, right. (Thought I would beat you all to it.)

Yep...Mayock's a genius and such a great analyst to be able to spot the frauds the way he does.

penguinfarmer
09-22-2012, 08:54 AM
That quote was as innocuous as it comes. I don't know why it has to become a pitchfork hunt for Mayock.

TheEnigma
09-22-2012, 08:58 AM
Thanks, OP, for reminding me of the exact quote that caused my wife to call Mayock a creep. I believe I have heard it all, however, when anyone can look at a professional QB...a 2 time SB MVP...and say that he is not an athlete. I would like to see how Mayock's passes compare to Eli's. Oh...wait...it doesn't take an athlete to throw a football 60 yards in the air accurately. Oh...sorry...my bad.

What about a guy that plays 3 sports in high school? Not only did Eli play 3 sports in high school...at a school with over 7K in enrollment...he lettered 4 years in football, 4 years in basketball, and 2 years in baseball. No...not an athlete there. He just lettered as a freshmen in basketball because of his dad's name, right. (Thought I would beat you all to it.)

Yep...Mayock's a genius and such a great analyst to be able to spot the frauds the way he does.

Mayock is using the universal definition of athlete as it is known in the NFL regarding QBs - superb mobility sometimes combined with excellent body size that adds another dimension to the QB's individual talent. Eli is none of that but thankfully, QB is the last position in the NFL that really requires athleticism. The recent greats like Peyton, Brady, and Brees are more known for their leadership and being able to dissect defenses with their minds. Eli is of the same mold.

The definition of athlete changes depending on the position you are talking about. For offensive linemen, it's having exceptionally quick feet despite carrying around over 300+ pounds. Tyron Smith is the perfect example. For defensive linemen, it's JPP because of his measurements with his arm length, speed, and amazing strength for a 280lb player.

GCGiant
09-22-2012, 09:06 AM
Eli is an athlete and Mayock said he wasn't. He didn't say, "He's not as athletic as some QB's"...he said he wasn't an athlete. Total BS.

GCGiant
09-22-2012, 09:08 AM
That quote was as innocuous as it comes. I don't know why it has to become a pitchfork hunt for Mayock.

...and I don't know why I can't give my opinion without you being such a jerk with that first comment?

Die-Hard
09-22-2012, 09:10 AM
LOL I can't believe people misconstrued such a harmless statement that was not meant as an insult in the slightest. He was stating the obvious that Eli is not a mobile QB, and in todays NFL, mobile QB's are considered more athletically gifted than pocket passers. Yes, he said that Eli wasn't an athlete, but thats not what he literally meant

GCGiant
09-22-2012, 09:13 AM
LOL I can't believe people misconstrued such a harmless statement that was not meant as an insult in the slightest. He was stating the obvious that Eli is not a mobile QB, and in todays NFL, mobile QB's are considered more athletically gifted than pocket passers. Yes, he said that Eli wasn't an athlete, but thats not what he literally meant

Maybe...since he's got millions of people watching...some being young or not so informed to be able to read between the lines...

Maybe he should say what he literally means instead of making such an assinine comment. If Eli isn't an athlete then Tiger Woods isn't an athlete either.

TheEnigma
09-22-2012, 09:18 AM
Again, look at it from Mayock's perspective. He's a draft analyst and scout first and announcer second. With athletic QBs like Cam and RG3 coming out of college, Eli just doesn't compare (key word here because that's what happening when he says Eli isn't an athlete) to what they can do outside of the pocket with their legs. It seems like people should be more against the NFL's definition of athlete than Mayock using it correctly.

Die-Hard
09-22-2012, 09:20 AM
Since Mayock is one of the most widely respected commentators and draft guys in the business, I'm certainly giving him the benefit of the doubt. I didn't find anything derogatory with what he said. Eli is a big boy, and I'm quite sure that even he'd laugh it off. Getting upset about it is pointless.

penguinfarmer
09-22-2012, 09:21 AM
These guys aren't reading from a script. It was a comment made on the spur of the moment. The term "athlete" is also one up for interpretation relative to the present context, not against pimple-faced teenagers in highschool. Mayock's praised Eli plenty. Or should we burn his house down because he also didn't call him "elite", another useless descriptor that has no effect on the game?

thegiantsrule10
09-22-2012, 09:22 AM
Eli isn't a athlete hes just a GREAT QB. Do we need to remember him sliding vs the eagles.

GCGiant
09-22-2012, 09:22 AM
Again, look at it from Mayock's perspective. He's a draft analyst and scout first and announcer second. With athletic QBs like Cam and RG3 coming out of college, Eli just doesn't compare (key word here because that's what happening when he says Eli isn't an athlete) to what they can do outside of the pocket with their legs. It seems like people should be more against the NFL's definition of athlete than Mayock using it correctly.

How about you and others looking at it from my perspective. I'm sitting there watching the game and my wife is calling this guy a creep. I am not saying anything to make her come to that conclusion. She formed that opinion all by herself. By looking at it from my perspective you should see that if a person is going to assume that people know what he really means, well...you know what they say about people that ASSume.

Die-Hard
09-22-2012, 09:24 AM
These guys aren't reading from a script. It was a comment made on the spur of the moment. The term "athlete" is also one up for interpretation relative to the present context, not against pimple-faced teenagers in highschool. Mayock's praised Eli plenty. Or should we burn his house down because he also didn't call him "elite", another useless descriptor that has no effect on the game?

Please dont use the word 'elite' around here. Its like sitting on a pile of dynamite while playing with a book of matches

TheEnigma
09-22-2012, 09:30 AM
How about you and others looking at it from my perspective. I'm sitting there watching the game and my wife is calling this guy a creep. I am not saying anything to make her come to that conclusion. She formed that opinion all by herself. By looking at it from my perspective you should see that if a person is going to assume that people know what he really means, well...you know what they say about people that ASSume.

I did. When one thinks of the literal definition of an athlete, you would be 100% correct here because all you have to do is be involved with sports to be an athlete. The problem is that you are picking a battle with only one of thousands of analysts who use the NFL's definition of athlete. Part of language is that the meaning of words change over time and that's what is happening with "athlete" as the game continues to grow in different directions. Someone like Mick Vick probably won't be considered an athlete 20 years later or so.

penguinfarmer
09-22-2012, 09:32 AM
Please dont use the word 'elite' around here. Its like sitting on a pile of dynamite while playing with a book of matches

lol I received no warning for my earlier jab, but the E word merits a finger wag. I promise, I shall behave.

Ruttiger711
09-22-2012, 09:34 AM
How about you and others looking at it from my perspective. I'm sitting there watching the game and my wife is calling this guy a creep. I am not saying anything to make her come to that conclusion. She formed that opinion all by herself. By looking at it from my perspective you should see that if a person is going to assume that people know what he really means, well...you know what they say about people that ASSume.

Seems like the reason your wife called him a creep is that she's unaware of what context he's speaking from.

It's not an insult to her but I think the aim of the NFL network is towards the more informed football fan (fanatic even?) - and the majority of them know who Mayock is and where he's coming from.

jomo
09-22-2012, 09:37 AM
These guys aren't reading from a script. It was a comment made on the spur of the moment. The term "athlete" is also one up for interpretation relative to the present context, not against pimple-faced teenagers in highschool. Mayock's praised Eli plenty. Or should we burn his house down because he also didn't call him "elite", another useless descriptor that has no effect on the game?He also singled out one pass and said "there's the bad Eli" in a smug way as if every QB doesn't throw some stinkers. Flip side, he never once said "there's the bad Cam". If you break down his incompetent tape you'd have to say that in the name of hype, he over praised Cam and underpraised Eli. It doesn't bother me, it is just fact and consistent with the general intelect we have to listen to on all the broadcasts.

PS, I think the mod's reference to staying away from the word "elite" was a tongue in cheek comment from him as a fan, not a directive from him as a mod. "That word" does tend to set off both sides of the aisle on these boards from the regulars. lol

Die-Hard
09-22-2012, 09:44 AM
lol I received no warning for my earlier jab, but the E word merits a finger wag. I promise, I shall behave.

That one little word has divided this board more times than I'd care to admit, and the bloodshed has been hell to clean up. Even Tide can't get rid of all the stains LOL

Joe Morrison
09-22-2012, 09:44 AM
He also singled out one pass and said "there's the bad Eli" in a smug way as if every QB doesn't throw some stinkers. Flip side, he never once said "there's the bad Cam". If you break down his incompetent tape you'd have to say that in the name of hype, he over praised Cam and underpraised Eli. It doesn't bother me, it is just fact and consistent with the general intelect we have to listen to on all the broadcasts.

PS, I think the mod's reference to staying away from the word "elite" was a tongue in cheek comment from him as a fan, not a directive from him as a mod. "That word" does tend to set off both sides of the aisle on these boards from the regulars. lol

You're talking NFL Network, those guys did all their homework and were all ready for the Cam coming out party, when it didn't happen they had to just add lib and were horrible at it, made a big deal when they got into the endzone failing to realize the GMEN still had the game well in hand. And the Eli comments were simply ignorant, not an athlete, maybe not a sprinter, but not an athlete? CMON MAN

Die-Hard
09-22-2012, 09:44 AM
He also singled out one pass and said "there's the bad Eli" in a smug way as if every QB doesn't throw some stinkers. Flip side, he never once said "there's the bad Cam". If you break down his incompetent tape you'd have to say that in the name of hype, he over praised Cam and underpraised Eli. It doesn't bother me, it is just fact and consistent with the general intelect we have to listen to on all the broadcasts.

PS, I think the mod's reference to staying away from the word "elite" was a tongue in cheek comment from him as a fan, not a directive from him as a mod. "That word" does tend to set off both sides of the aisle on these boards from the regulars. lol

You are correct, sir!

Ruttiger711
09-22-2012, 09:45 AM
He also singled out one pass and said "there's the bad Eli" in a smug way as if every QB doesn't throw some stinkers. Flip side, he never once said "there's the bad Cam". If you break down his incompetent tape you'd have to say that in the name of hype, he over praised Cam and underpraised Eli. It doesn't bother me, it is just fact and consistent with the general intelect we have to listen to on all the broadcasts.

PS, I think the mod's reference to staying away from the word "elite" was a tongue in cheek comment from him as a fan, not a directive from him as a mod. "That word" does tend to set off both sides of the aisle on these boards from the regulars. lol

Was he wrong though? Did he single out one pass or comment on the play that JUST happened?

It was the replay right after the play happened and it was a forced throw...similar to a lot of the debated int throws he had in 2010.

Mayock's a gem in terms of knowledge and talking about the game, and IMO nothing like the typical broadacter - not by a long shot.

Die-Hard
09-22-2012, 09:52 AM
Was he wrong though? Did he single out one pass or comment on the play that JUST happened?

It was the replay right after the play happened and it was a forced throw...similar to a lot of the debated int throws he had in 2010.

Mayock's a gem in terms of knowledge and talking about the game, and IMO nothing like the typical broadacter - not by a long shot.

Good post. Like all QB's, Eli still puts up an occasional throw that he has no business attempting, and sometimes, he puts up several in a given game(TB for example). We just have to remember that there are fans of his out there that take the slightest negativity toward him as a personal attack on them. "Good Eli" or "Bad Eli" shouldn't bother anyone, but it does.

bigblue58
09-22-2012, 09:52 AM
NFLN PBP man Mayock or whatever his name is [Not Nesslar] said Eli isn't an athlete, he's just a very good QB. When Eli ran that ball and only got a yard. I liked Nesslar's remark that "Well he was fast enough to beat those guys out to the sideline".

It's sad how today everyone thinks a guy is only good if he's "fast" when that's not the case at all. Being fast doesn't make you a better athlete than a slower guy. Dumb statement but there's tons of them being thrown out in every sports telecast daily.

The HOF is full of QB's who couldn't get out of their own way when they tried to run! Eli has probably taken some of the most vivious pummeling of any QB in NFL history,played hurt with the bad shoulder and Plantar Fasciitis .........and he's NEVER missed a game! If thats not an ATHLETE, then there is no such thing as an athlete!

TheEnigma
09-22-2012, 09:54 AM
He also singled out one pass and said "there's the bad Eli" in a smug way as if every QB doesn't throw some stinkers. Flip side, he never once said "there's the bad Cam". If you break down his incompetent tape you'd have to say that in the name of hype, he over praised Cam and underpraised Eli. It doesn't bother me, it is just fact and consistent with the general intelect we have to listen to on all the broadcasts.

PS, I think the mod's reference to staying away from the word "elite" was a tongue in cheek comment from him as a fan, not a directive from him as a mod. "That word" does tend to set off both sides of the aisle on these boards from the regulars. lol

I recall that play actually. What he was pointing out on that pass to Barden was that there were two defenders in front of the ball that should of been able to jump up and intercept it. Against really good defenses, it would of been an interception and a bad play by Eli. I have to agree with the whole "Bad Eli" title because at times, he doesn't play like the stellar QB he has consistently become in recent years. Though I'm sure he didn't bash Cam as much as you would of liked because it was obvious to anyone with the slightest brain power that he was playing like crap out there.

GCGiant
09-22-2012, 09:58 AM
It's funny because a lot of people here call out the so-called Eli homers for getting butt-hurt over any critical comment made about Eli but at the same time they themselves get butt-hurt over somebody being critical of an ex-Giant that many people outside of NY are not familiar with and furthermore don't let the fact that he is an ex-Giant cloud their opinion.

jomo
09-22-2012, 10:05 AM
I recall that play actually. What he was pointing out on that pass to Barden was that there were two defenders in front of the ball that should of been able to jump up and intercept it. Against really good defenses, it would of been an interception and a bad play by Eli. I have to agree with the whole "Bad Eli" title because at times, he doesn't play like the stellar QB he has consistently become in recent years. Though I'm sure he didn't bash Cam as much as you would of liked because it was obvious to anyone with the slightest brain power that he was playing like crap out there.I am interested in the QB who doesn't have a bad play or 6 in every game. "Bad Eli" is a tired old tag that is about 3 years retired. That was my point about being lazy in not preparing.

Now, if they simply analyzed that play and said, "that was a bad decision by Eli and he's fortunate it wasn't picked off" they would have been factual and correct as opposed to trite, glib and unprepared.

How have the bad Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees been doing this year.

I also didn't think they should criticize Newton more. He's a young player with enormous upside. Some of his poor performance was on him and more of it was on the Giants. It is hard to complete passes when JPP is swatting them back at you and it is hard to show off that running prowess when guys who are also brilliant athletes like JPP, Rolle, Hosley etc. are chasing you.

GCGiant
09-22-2012, 10:13 AM
Did anyone see the "Bad Drew" throw that pick-6 against the Panthers? Please...I know that every QB makes a bad decision sometimes...that would be my point.

GCGiant
09-22-2012, 10:15 AM
...and the "Bad Peyton" the other night. I do hope that was a fluke, btw. I would hate to see his career end trying to do what he could once do and not being able to hang 'em up because of pride or whatever. I hope that game was just a bad game and Peyton ends up in the SB...against the Giants, of course.

jomo
09-22-2012, 10:18 AM
Did anyone see the "Bad Drew" throw that pick-6 against the Panthers? Please...I know that every QB makes a bad decision sometimes...that would be my point.Totally agree. I think I tend to reject labels wherever they show themselves, not just in sports. Whenever I hear labels thrown about, I always think, now there's a lazy person who can't express what they see, so they just spout what they've heard even if it is old and worn out or in the case of these guys Thursday just plain incorrect..

TheEnigma
09-22-2012, 10:21 AM
I am interested in the QB who doesn't have a bad play or 6 in every game. "Bad Eli" is a tired old tag that is about 3 years retired. That was my point about being lazy in not preparing.

Now, if they simply analyzed that play and said, "that was a bad decision by Eli and he's fortunate it wasn't picked off" they would have been factual and correct as opposed to trite, glib and unprepared.

How have the bad Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees been doing this year.

I also didn't think they should criticize Newton more. He's a young player with enormous upside. Some of his poor performance was on him and more of it was on the Giants. It is hard to complete passes when JPP is swatting them back at you and it is hard to show off that running prowess when guys who are also brilliant athletes like JPP, Rolle, Hosley etc. are chasing you.

"Bad Eli" is a tag that fans of the other 31 teams are used to. The broadcast factors in viewers outside of the Giants and Panthers. Same thing happens to other units across the league if you look hard enough. "Bad Bears line" or "Bad Cardinals team" even though they have one of the best defenses in the league.

There's actually been talk of those 3 QBs you mentioned but they've been chalked up to external factors so far like bad Oline play (Brady), good defenses (Rodgers), and lack of coaching (Brees). You just have to know where to look my friend.

keyofgmen
09-22-2012, 10:24 AM
How many times does Eli have to take a 3rd or 4th receiver and make him look like a 1 and win games to boot for people to realize that he carries this team. In order to carry a team you have to take a chance here and there. You have to force a throw, you have to just "chuck it deep". If not, there will be a lot more 3 and outs. So an occasional "dumb" INT (and believe me I get pissed too..) must be tolerated. There are very few QBs in this league that could have led this team like it was lead on Thursday under the circumstances. Even most "experts" agreed on that point after that game.

penguinfarmer
09-22-2012, 10:26 AM
PS, I think the mod's reference to staying away from the word "elite" was a tongue in cheek comment from him as a fan, not a directive from him as a mod. "That word" does tend to set off both sides of the aisle on these boards from the regulars. lol

I know. It was all in jest on my part as well. I didn't take it as DIE HARD not calling me an athlete.

Ruttiger711
09-22-2012, 10:27 AM
Totally agree. I think I tend to reject labels wherever they show themselves, not just in sports. Whenever I hear labels thrown about, I always think, now there's a lazy person who can't express what they see, so they just spout what they've heard even if it is old and worn out or in the case of these guys Thursday just plain incorrect..

Yet right now you are basically labeling Mayock as lazy because he (correctly) characterized ONE throw made by Eli as one the "bad Eli" would make.

Mayock is one of the most prepared and informed commentators - period, all you have to do is listen to his commentary on the Giants opening drive. Trust me you are not hearing that kind of insight by ANY other guy out there.

jomo
09-22-2012, 10:30 AM
"Bad Eli" is a tag that fans of the other 31 teams are used to. The broadcast factors in viewers outside of the Giants and Panthers. Same thing happens to other units across the league if you look hard enough. "Bad Bears line" or "Bad Cardinals team" even though they have one of the best defenses in the league.

There's actually been talk of those 3 QBs you mentioned but they've been chalked up to external factors so far like bad Oline play (Brady), good defenses (Rodgers), and lack of coaching (Brees). You just have to know where to look my friend.Sorry and wadr, fans of those other 31 teams understand those words because lazy broadcasters don't educate them. He could have said............"Five years ago Eli threw too many balls like that but his game has really gone off the charts (use stats and graphic to make the point) since his first Super Bowl win. Then he would actually be educating his broad base of viewers rather than taking the lazy man's way out and just pumping into an incorrect perception. It's not just them at NFL network, it is the media in general and the world we live in. Let's try to make it better and lose the labels to criticize or praise unfairly. Go Blue!!!

jomo
09-22-2012, 10:36 AM
Yet right now you are basically labeling Mayock as lazy because he (correctly) characterized ONE throw made by Eli as one the "bad Eli" would make.

Mayock is one of the most prepared and informed commentators - period, all you have to do is listen to his commentary on the Giants opening drive. Trust me you are not hearing that kind of insight by ANY other guy out there.The term "Bad Eli" is lazy and incorrect. If he wants to be an outstanding analyst, he needs to be outstanding. He also said Eli's not a great athlete which of course is nonsense. He is a brilliant NFL quarterback by any measure. Just more of the same laziness. Now he could have said "Eli isn't as fleet a foot as Newton of some of the other more moblie quarterbacks but athleticism isn't just measued in your 40 yard dash time". That would have been thoughtful and not played into worn out steroptypes. There's another example of choosing the lazy man's route over being really insightful and analytical.

Ruttiger711
09-22-2012, 10:56 AM
The term "Bad Eli" is lazy and incorrect. If he wants to be an outstanding analyst, he needs to be outstanding. He also said Eli's not a great athlete which of course is nonsense. He is a brilliant NFL quarterback by any measure. Just more of the same laziness. Now he could have said "Eli isn't as fleet a foot as Newton of some of the other more moblie quarterbacks but athleticism isn't just measued in your 40 yard dash time". That would have been thoughtful and not played into worn out steroptypes. There's another example of choosing the lazy man's route over being really insightful and analytical.

On your previous post I think you mean TWO years ago threw too many balls like that... not 5.

Did you even listen to his broadcast? Do you know who he is? Have you ever heard his draft analysis on draft day?

Theres nothing lazy about what he does - ever... as for saying Eli's not an athlete, again you have you know the (extremely educated) player analysis context Mayock brings.... dont be lazy about it. To put very simply - a true pocket passer as far as draft analysts go these days are not athletic. Even out of all the current STARTING pocket passers in the league Eli is probably the least mobile.

Try to look beyond being offended and (lazily) throwing labels around by one term you dont like and listen to how this guy brings you the game.

I'm thrilled that NFLN isnt going all Disney with their choice of commentators.

jomo
09-22-2012, 11:15 AM
On your previous post I think you mean TWO years ago threw too many balls like that... not 5.

Did you even listen to his broadcast? Do you know who he is? Have you ever heard his draft analysis on draft day?

Theres nothing lazy about what he does - ever... as for saying Eli's not an athlete, again you have you know the (extremely educated) player analysis context Mayock brings.... dont be lazy about it. To put very simply - a true pocket passer as far as draft analysts go these days are not athletic. Even out of all the current STARTING pocket passers in the league Eli is probably the least mobile.

Try to look beyond being offended and (lazily) throwing labels around by one term you dont like and listen to how this guy brings you the game.

I'm thrilled that NFLN isnt going all Disney with their choice of commentators.You are obviously a big fan of his. I have no clue whether his is usually good or bad.I wasn't trying to critique his life's work, I'll leave that to others. His choice of bad eli and not an athlete were lazy, incorrect on the merits and need to be challenged.

yoeddy
09-22-2012, 11:23 AM
NFLN PBP man Mayock or whatever his name is [Not Nesslar] said Eli isn't an athlete, he's just a very good QB. When Eli ran that ball and only got a yard. I liked Nesslar's remark that "Well he was fast enough to beat those guys out to the sideline".

It's sad how today everyone thinks a guy is only good if he's "fast" when that's not the case at all. Being fast doesn't make you a better athlete than a slower guy. Dumb statement but there's tons of them being thrown out in every sports telecast daily.

Eh...Snee says Eli isn't an athlete all the time...

Ruttiger711
09-22-2012, 11:26 AM
Eh...Snee says Eli isn't an athlete all the time...

He must be lazy, incorrect on his merits and needs to be challenged.

NJBLUE
09-22-2012, 01:19 PM
I like Eli just the way he is! That's my Quarterback! 2 Superbowl MVP's and all!

yoeddy
09-22-2012, 01:25 PM
He must be lazy, incorrect on his merits and needs to be challenged.

Snee says Eli runs funny...

gumby74
09-22-2012, 01:45 PM
You are obviously a big fan of his. I have no clue whether his is usually good or bad.I wasn't trying to critique his life's work, I'll leave that to others. His choice of bad eli and not an athlete were lazy, incorrect on the merits and need to be challenged.

Depends on definition. A certainly think Newton is a better athlete than Eli. So is Vick and lots of others. Athlete is defined by physical characteristics. It doesn't include what's in between the ears. I don't think he meant Eli is not athletic, that's just silly. Just that relative to others he may not be as athletic.

As for "Bad" Eli. Eli always had this Dr Jeckyll Mr Hyde thing going on. His inconsistency pre 2011, was pretty well documented as the public perception. If he still believes it, then that's his decision - whether we agree or not.

fansince69
09-22-2012, 02:00 PM
Depends on definition. A certainly think Newton is a better athlete than Eli. So is Vick and lots of others. Athlete is defined by physical characteristics. It doesn't include what's in between the ears. I don't think he meant Eli is not athletic, that's just silly. Just that relative to others he may not be as athletic.

As for "Bad" Eli. Eli always had this Dr Jeckyll Mr Hyde thing going on. His inconsistency pre 2011, was pretty well documented as the public perception. If he still believes it, then that's his decision - whether we agree or not.



this ^

jomo
09-22-2012, 02:31 PM
Depends on definition. A certainly think Newton is a better athlete than Eli. So is Vick and lots of others. Athlete is defined by physical characteristics. It doesn't include what's in between the ears. I don't think he meant Eli is not athletic, that's just silly. Just that relative to others he may not be as athletic.

As for "Bad" Eli. Eli always had this Dr Jeckyll Mr Hyde thing going on. His inconsistency pre 2011, was pretty well documented as the public perception. If he still believes it, then that's his decision - whether we agree or not.I agree with you on the definition. Jockeys are generally considered exceptional athletes because of their combination of strength and balance. Throwing a football is certainly an athletic move as is having the strength to withstand the physical pounding that a QB receives. I would call every NFL player an extraordinary athlete. What he should have said is "Eli is not as fast or nimble as some other quarterbacks especially the newer crop including RG3 and Newton. On that point and on the stop watch he would have been correct.

PS Some people go so far as to consider bowlers and race car drivers "great athletes" I don't but it's just my opinion and I see why some would feel that way. I would use a definition for "athletic" as a combination of strength, speed, endurance, balance and coordination that allow you to do exceptional athletic activities.

Neverend
09-22-2012, 02:33 PM
Can we also say athleticism in football should always be defined by speed?

gumby74
09-22-2012, 02:35 PM
I agree with you on the definition. Jockeys are generally considered exceptional athletes because of their combination of strength and balance. Throwing a football is certainly an athletic move as is having the strength to withstand the physical pounding that a QB receives. I would call every NFL player an extraordinary athlete. What he should have said is "Eli is not as fast or nimble as some other quarterbacks especially the newer crop including RG3 and Newton. On that point and on the stop watch he would have been correct.

PS Some people go so far as to consider bowlers and race car drivers "great athletes" I don't but it's just my opinion and I see why some would feel that way. I would use a definition for "athletic" as a combination of strength, speed, endurance, balance and coordination that allow you to do exceptional athletic activities.

I agree with you but they are announcing the game. No time to get into specifics!

bg79
09-22-2012, 03:10 PM
Cant believe we have 8 pages of uproar over a completely accurate definition of Eli not being an Athlete in the context in which it was used. I don't know how many times it needs to be mentioned but in the NFL when someone is referred to as an athlete especially as a QB it's in relation to their ability with the legs.

It sounds like most of you would prefer John Gruden's slobbering over Eli as opposed to Mayocks more mature call it like he see's it kind of coverage. Just seems like everyone is so hypersensitive that any perceived slight about any player or the team in general is a huge massive insult to everything you care dearly about.

primetime
09-22-2012, 04:16 PM
Cant believe we have 8 pages of uproar over a completely accurate definition of Eli not being an Athlete in the context in which it was used. I don't know how many times it needs to be mentioned but in the NFL when someone is referred to as an athlete especially as a QB it's in relation to their ability with the legs.

It sounds like most of you would prefer John Gruden's slobbering over Eli as opposed to Mayocks more mature call it like he see's it kind of coverage. Just seems like everyone is so hypersensitive that any perceived slight about any player or the team in general is a huge massive insult to everything you care dearly about.
Any thread with Eli as the subject will get a minimum of 10 pages of responses.

Neverend
09-22-2012, 05:28 PM
I don't know how many times it needs to be mentioned but in the NFL when someone is referred to as an athlete especially as a QB it's in relation to their ability with the legs.

There was nothing wrong with what mayock said but sometimes I feel its unfair to just label a QB a poor athlete because he doesn't have michael vick legs. Its short sighted to just define athleticism by speed and acceleration. What if a QB has quick, agile feet to side step the rush? What if the QB has very good balance to maintain his ground when a defensive lineman get their hands on him? Brady and Big Ben are good examples of the former and latter. Athleticism in football is so broad, I don't think its limited to explosion and speed

SiddFinch1
09-22-2012, 05:35 PM
I think Mayock was stating the obvious, you will not describe Eli as athletic with respect to other football players.It's all semantics. Lots of athletes are not "athletic"

BeatYale
09-22-2012, 05:40 PM
Further proof that this forum has too many over sensitive individuals. If Mayock's comment was a legit attack on Eli the media would be running wild with it this week, but most people comprehended it for what it really was - just meaningless color commentary that wasn't taking a jab at Eli.

Guys... if you take your head out of Eli's butt you'll be able to comprehend things better. I know you love Eli, but it's really odd that you get so defensive over him like teenage girls who won't put up with any negative remarks about Justin Bieber.

Put the guns down bros. We all know Eli is great.

GMan-67
09-22-2012, 07:21 PM
well everyone is 6'5" and can throw the ball 70 yards in the air or 40 yards on a frozen rope ;) , so yeah def. not any kinda athletic ability

Laurah1275
09-22-2012, 07:27 PM
I wonder if Eli ever just sits around and says to himself..."damn, I'm just a regular dude, how did all this happen?"....LOL...:)

bigjeep
09-22-2012, 07:50 PM
I don't know which is which but 1 of them seems like a complete idiot. As if he was reading from a teleprompter full of wrong info. As much as I hate to say it I would rather have Aikmen and Buck or even Collinsworth.

Announcers for the game were horrible! 6 minutes to go up by 23? something points and Newton throws an Interception and the Idiot says "that could have been the Panthers last chance"!

bigjeep
09-22-2012, 07:54 PM
Further proof that this forum has too many over sensitive individuals. If Mayock's comment was a legit attack on Eli the media would be running wild with it this week, but most people comprehended it for what it really was - just meaningless color commentary that wasn't taking a jab at Eli.

Guys... if you take your head out of Eli's butt you'll be able to comprehend things better. I know you love Eli, but it's really odd that you get so defensive over him like teenage girls who won't put up with any negative remarks about Justin Bieber.

Put the guns down bros. We all know Eli is great.

Hmm, you have to be kidding? Eli's taking more hits on this board over the years then he has on the field! :p

Die-Hard
09-22-2012, 07:55 PM
Further proof that this forum has too many over sensitive individuals. If Mayock's comment was a legit attack on Eli the media would be running wild with it this week, but most people comprehended it for what it really was - just meaningless color commentary that wasn't taking a jab at Eli.

Guys... if you take your head out of Eli's butt you'll be able to comprehend things better. I know you love Eli, but it's really odd that you get so defensive over him like teenage girls who won't put up with any negative remarks about Justin Bieber.

Put the guns down bros. We all know Eli is great.

I'll do my best to hold them off, and I'll be with you in the trenches 'till the end, but just know that what you said, while completely accurate in every way, is akin to sitting on a bench whilst hitting the top of a nuclear warhead with a hammer. The ground troops will surely get in some licks before it's all over.

Drez
09-22-2012, 09:19 PM
Announcers for the game were horrible! 6 minutes to go up by 23? something points and Newton throws an Interception and the Idiot says "that could have been the Panthers last chance"!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we lose a game a few seasons ago by giving up 28 points in the final 7 minutes of play?

giantsfan420
09-22-2012, 10:17 PM
drez, and even last week vs TB didnt we have a 25 pt 4th quarter with like 3 td's in the final 7 min? now i dont know if carolinas offense is potent enough to have come back, but the announcer certanly wasnt out of bounds with that statement

bg79
09-23-2012, 09:32 AM
There was nothing wrong with what mayock said but sometimes I feel its unfair to just label a QB a poor athlete because he doesn't have michael vick legs. Its short sighted to just define athleticism by speed and acceleration. What if a QB has quick, agile feet to side step the rush? What if the QB has very good balance to maintain his ground when a defensive lineman get their hands on him? Brady and Big Ben are good examples of the former and latter. Athleticism in football is so broad, I don't think its limited to explosion and speed

He didnt say he was a poor athlete, he said he is not an athlete. There is a semantic difference with that as one is indicating whether or not Eli fits into a certain category of QB (which he doesnt) and the other is taking the term in the sense too many people here are taking it.

So to reiterate since people still want to parse what he said and find uproar in it. When any draft analyst or football enthusiast discusses the term Athlete in relation to a Quarterback. They are discussing their ability to extend and create plays with their legs, not their arms. So Cam Newton is considered an Athlete as QB as if he wasnt a QB it would be very likely they'd convert him to another position. Ask yourself this, if Eli was not a QB do you think for a second he'd be in the NFL as any other position? Thats what they mean by an Athlete. College does it as well, they'll recruit kids specifically as "Athletes" thats not to imply that the other kids they recruit arent athletic but it's used to define someone who's abilities make them flexible in what positions they can play.

brad
09-23-2012, 10:15 AM
He didnt say he was a poor athlete, he said he is not an athlete. There is a semantic difference with that as one is indicating whether or not Eli fits into a certain category of QB (which he doesnt) and the other is taking the term in the sense too many people here are taking it.

So to reiterate since people still want to parse what he said and find uproar in it. When any draft analyst or football enthusiast discusses the term Athlete in relation to a Quarterback. They are discussing their ability to extend and create plays with their legs, not their arms. So Cam Newton is considered an Athlete as QB as if he wasnt a QB it would be very likely they'd convert him to another position. Ask yourself this, if Eli was not a QB do you think for a second he'd be in the NFL as any other position? Thats what they mean by an Athlete. College does it as well, they'll recruit kids specifically as "Athletes" thats not to imply that the other kids they recruit arent athletic but it's used to define someone who's abilities make them flexible in what positions they can play.

+1

I didn't take it as an insult to Eli, just saying the guy can't run... that certainly isn't a secret. Everyone knows that Eli is a great QB, let's stop playing the victim who gets no respect, jumping into an uproar anytime there is a perceived insult. I think we can also agree that Eli is not exactly Cam when it comes to creating plays running the ball... and after Thursday does anyone really want a Cam over Eli?

Die-Hard
09-23-2012, 11:15 AM
He didnt say he was a poor athlete, he said he is not an athlete. There is a semantic difference with that as one is indicating whether or not Eli fits into a certain category of QB (which he doesnt) and the other is taking the term in the sense too many people here are taking it.

So to reiterate since people still want to parse what he said and find uproar in it. When any draft analyst or football enthusiast discusses the term Athlete in relation to a Quarterback. They are discussing their ability to extend and create plays with their legs, not their arms. So Cam Newton is considered an Athlete as QB as if he wasnt a QB it would be very likely they'd convert him to another position. Ask yourself this, if Eli was not a QB do you think for a second he'd be in the NFL as any other position? Thats what they mean by an Athlete. College does it as well, they'll recruit kids specifically as "Athletes" thats not to imply that the other kids they recruit arent athletic but it's used to define someone who's abilities make them flexible in what positions they can play.


Excellent post. Not sure that it'll make a dent, but very well said regardless.

Roswell777
09-23-2012, 09:20 PM
So let me get this straight. Speed and vertical jump are the arbiters for athleticism? How about dropping a football into a one foot box forty yards downfield while you're being rushed and the whole world is watching? Seems like an athletic move to me.

Does this criteria apply to all sports? You have to be fast? Lundqvist isn't fast. Johnny Bench wasn't fast. Probably wasn't a great jumper either.

I like Mayock but that was ridiculous. But he's entitled to go with a rubber stamp description. These guys talk all day, they're bound to say some senseless things. And for the record, supposedly Eli can dunk a basketball.

bg79
09-23-2012, 09:29 PM
So let me get this straight. Speed and vertical jump are the arbiters for athleticism? How about dropping a football into a one foot box forty yards downfield while you're being rushed and the whole world is watching? Seems like an athletic move to me.

Does this criteria apply to all sports? You have to be fast? Lundqvist isn't fast. Johnny Bench wasn't fast. Probably wasn't a great jumper either.

I like Mayock but that was ridiculous. But he's entitled to go with a rubber stamp description. These guys talk all day, they're bound to say some senseless things. And for the record, supposedly Eli can dunk a basketball.

It's been explained numerous times throughout this thread by myself and by several other people. Even the post right above yours has my post quoted explaining exactly what Mayock meant. So why did you choose to ignore the facts before you got on your soapbox? Mayock didnt say anything senseless, he was 100% factual in what he stated. I take it you don't watch the draft combine because you wouldve heard these terms thrown around and known fully what they meant instead of going into a hissy fit over nothing.

Drez
09-23-2012, 09:45 PM
drez, and even last week vs TB didnt we have a 25 pt 4th quarter with like 3 td's in the final 7 min? now i dont know if carolinas offense is potent enough to have come back, but the announcer certanly wasnt out of bounds with that statement
Hell, even last year against the Cowboys, we were down, what was it, 18 points, with 6 minutes left?

Either way, if Carolina was going to even attempt making a comeback (as unlikely as it may have been), it certainly all but died with that interception.

Drez
09-23-2012, 09:47 PM
+1

I didn't take it as an insult to Eli, just saying the guy can't run... that certainly isn't a secret. Everyone knows that Eli is a great QB, let's stop playing the victim who gets no respect, jumping into an uproar anytime there is a perceived insult. I think we can also agree that Eli is not exactly Cam when it comes to creating plays running the ball... and after Thursday does anyone really want a Cam over Eli?
However, Eli did have a better yards per rush in the game than Cam did, lol.

Drez
09-23-2012, 09:48 PM
And for the record, supposedly Eli can dunk a basketball.
At 6'5" or so, I sure as hell hope so.

Roswell777
09-23-2012, 09:49 PM
It's been explained numerous times throughout this thread by myself and by several other people. Even the post right above yours has my post quoted explaining exactly what Mayock meant. So why did you choose to ignore the facts before you got on your soapbox? Mayock didnt say anything senseless, he was 100% factual in what he stated. I take it you don't watch the draft combine because you wouldve heard these terms thrown around and known fully what they meant instead of going into a hissy fit over nothing.

First just because "you've explained it" doesn't mean I have to agree. But I'll keep that in mind the next time you explain something. Secondly, you need to look up the words opinion and factual. Thirdly, the quote above talks about a semantical difference between being a poor athlete and not being an athlete, which is also an opinion. One I don't share, whether I watch the combine or not.

Save your condescending remarks for others. Don't tell me about soap boxes and hissy fits. I just gave you my honest opinion.

ashleymarie
09-23-2012, 11:58 PM
And for the record, supposedly Eli can dunk a basketball.

how? ....... he's not an athlete.......

GCGiant
09-24-2012, 08:02 AM
Eli can dunk a basketball.

Not just dunk a basketball, he can dunk it with Peyton trying to stop him. Oh, but wait...Peyton is not an athlete, either. I should have known that by now because it has been explained to us by so many posters in this thread and that makes it 100% factual...no?

ashleymarie
09-24-2012, 08:48 AM
Hell, even last year against the Cowboys, we were down, what was it, 18 points, with 6 minutes left?
.

We were down 12 points. Great come back. ;)

Buddy333
09-24-2012, 08:50 AM
Some are way to sensitive. First of all, Mayock is the best. Second, Eli is a pocket passer. He can not run like Vick or RG3. I think hats all he was trying to say. I wouldn't doubt they would say the same thing about Brady. He ran slower than some OL at the combine but is thought of as an all time great QB.

SiddFinch1
09-24-2012, 08:51 AM
This whole thing is overblown and taken to mean much more than intended. But thats what drives sports talk :D

GCGiant
09-24-2012, 09:15 AM
Some are way to sensitive. First of all, Mayock is the best.

First of all, my question would be who is being way too sensitive...the people talking about Mayock's jerky (IMO) commentating or the people defending his jerky (IMO) commentating?

Secondly, Mayock is the best? Commentator? Seriously? When you take into account all the guys that make a living doing that, you are going to put him at the top of that heap? Wow!

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 09:15 AM
He was referring to speed and agility, etc.... All those things that are generally thought of as "athletic characteristics". And NOT associated with Eli.

Some of you guys are more sensitive than my 6 year old granddaughter.

GCGiant
09-24-2012, 09:19 AM
He was referring to speed and agility, etc.... All those things that are generally thought of as "athletic characteristics". And NOT associated with Eli.

Some of you guys are more sensitive than my 6 year old granddaughter.

You know...I know that he didn't really mean that he wasn't an athlete...but to me, that's not really the point. I was sitting there with my wife, 2 people who really were not familiar with the guy, and we formed an opinion and it wasn't a great one. No matter how you sugar coat it, it came off as jerky to at least 2 people who follow the Giants every game without fail. I am pretty sure that we were not the only one's coming away with that assessment...but, of course, I could be wrong.

TheEnigma
09-24-2012, 09:23 AM
Again, thousands of sports writers and analysts use athlete when referring to QBs in the context of above average speed, agility, and unusual body strength for the position (Tebow and Newton). Mayock isn't the first person to not call Eli an athlete so bring your battle against the definition in the NFL and not the one man who is using it in the proper context as it's known.

Would you guys have been just as offended if they said Chris Snee wasn't an athlete?

GCGiant
09-24-2012, 09:29 AM
Would you guys have been just as offended if they said Chris Snee wasn't an athlete?

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think offended is the right word for me. I wasn't offended but more embarrassed for him...I could care less if he wants to go around looking like an *** in front of millions of people...and I would think he was goofy if he said Chris Snee wasn't an athlete. Any person who has ever played on a football field beyond Pop Warner would be considered an atlete to me.

TheEnigma
09-24-2012, 09:40 AM
I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think offended is the right word for me. I wasn't offended but more embarrassed for him...I could care less if he wants to go around looking like an *** in front of millions of people...and I would think he was goofy if he said Chris Snee wasn't an athlete. Any person who has ever played on a football field beyond Pop Warner would be considered an atlete to me.

Fair enough but Mayock isn't the first person to classify Eli in the "non-athletic" mold and I can promise you he won't be the last one as well. It's just sort of shocking to me that now is the time we want to be outraged over this classification of Eli when the best NFL draft analyst and one of the league's best announcers in breaking the smallest of details to every snap uses it in the NFL's proper context. The point is that some people are used to the original context of the word and are upset because it has a different meaning in the professional leagues. Why you take your battle against one man baffles me.

GameTime
09-24-2012, 09:52 AM
cant believe how much has gone intot his thread...
Eli is a dopey dork who happens to be very mobil in the pocket and a great QB. Whats so hard to see about that.
He an athlete he is just not that athletic when it comes to running

GCGiant
09-24-2012, 09:52 AM
Fair enough but Mayock isn't the first person to classify Eli in the "non-athletic" mold and I can promise you he won't be the last one as well. It's just sort of shocking to me that now is the time we want to be outraged over this classification of Eli when the best NFL draft analyst and one of the league's best announcers in breaking the smallest of details to every snap uses it in the NFL's proper context. The point is that some people are used to the original context of the word and are upset because it has a different meaning in the professional leagues. Why you take your battle against one man baffles me.

If I'm reading this right...you are saying that I am taking up a battle with Mayock...which I am not doing now and never did. I simply gave my opinion on his commentating skills and what appeared to me to be some sort of "hater" attitude towards Eli. I was only giving my observations. The battle is in this forum with guys who for whatever reason feel compelled to go to bat for him. What's funny is that none of this really matters, because I will not change my opinion of his commentating abilities, based on the only 1 game that I can remember him commentating...and I am sure that you will not change yours.

GCGiant
09-24-2012, 09:56 AM
cant believe how much has gone intot his thread...
Eli is a dopey dork who happens to be very mobil in the pocket and a great QB. Whats so hard to see about that.
He an athlete he is just not that athletic when it comes to running

I'm sure that I am suppose to take "dopey dork" in the context that it is being used. He is not really a dopey dork, right...just used in context because we are posting on this particular message board where "dopey dork" has a different meaning...am I getting this right or just getting confused?

GameTime
09-24-2012, 09:59 AM
I'm sure that I am suppose to take "dopey dork" in the context that it is being used. He is not really a dopey dork, right...just used in context because we are posting on this particular message board where "dopey dork" has a different meaning...am I getting this right or just getting confused?
used all in good nature. I love Eli. But he is a good natured dopey dork. He is the leader of the Giants and a great QB. I see him as an athelet but when it comes to running he doesnt posses the beat "atheletic" ability.......

GCGiant
09-24-2012, 10:02 AM
used all in good nature. I love Eli. But he is a good natured dopey dork. He is the leader of the Giants and a great QB. I see him as an athelet but when it comes to running he doesnt posses the beat "atheletic" ability.......

You know...you say that...but just for the sake of argument...if it were you that was being called dopey dork, can you honestly tell me that it wouldn't bother you just a little...or would you see it as just the good natured ribbing?

SuperNYGiants
09-24-2012, 10:02 AM
Describing Eli as not an athlete is a poor choice of words if you haven't watched NFL for the last 10 years, if you have any freaking common sense at all and are familiar with NFL you'd realize what Mayock meant by saying that Eli is not an athlete, meaning he won't out-run the defense like Newton could. Stop nit-picking every little thing that might seem unflattering against Eli, it only makes Giants fans look petty and shallow. I wouldn't trade Eli for any other QB in the league, but to even delude yourself to think that Eli is any type of a mobile QB in the same level of Newton is just being an stubborn hothead.

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 10:04 AM
You know...I know that he didn't really mean that he wasn't an athlete...but to me, that's not really the point. I was sitting there with my wife, 2 people who really were not familiar with the guy, and we formed an opinion and it wasn't a great one. No matter how you sugar coat it, it came off as jerky to at least 2 people who follow the Giants every game without fail. I am pretty sure that we were not the only one's coming away with that assessment...but, of course, I could be wrong.
In the same sentence he said that ELI WAS A "great QB".
Gimme a break on this one. He's a great QB and not a great athlete, at least not by NFL standards. What he said was absolutely true.

GCGiant
09-24-2012, 10:04 AM
Describing Eli as not an athlete is a poor choice of words if you haven't watched NFL for the last 10 years, if you have any freaking common sense at all and are familiar with NFL you'd realize what Mayock meant by saying that Eli is not an athlete, meaning he won't out-run the defense like Newton could. Stop nit-picking every little thing that might seem unflattering against Eli, it only makes Giants fans look petty and shallow. I wouldn't trade Eli for any other QB in the league, but to even delude yourself to think that Eli is any type of a mobile QB in the same level of Newton is just being an stubborn hothead.

Again...it is the people who can't stand a negative analysis of Mayock who are being too sentsitive, IMO.

GameTime
09-24-2012, 10:05 AM
You know...you say that...but just for the sake of argument...if it were you that was being called dopey dork, can you honestly tell me that it wouldn't bother you just a little...or would you see it as just the good natured ribbing?
I hear you. But I am a first class wiseass who uses sarcasm on a regular basis. I grew up with it in my family. Part of my culture I guess you could say. I am called much worse than a dopey dork and have no issues with it.
Ok so Eli is not dopey but he is deffintely dorky......is that better

GCGiant
09-24-2012, 10:07 AM
In the same sentence he said that ELI WAS A "great QB".
Gimme a break on this one. He's a great QB and not a great athlete, at least not by NFL standards. What he said was absolutely true.

Read my lips. I could give a rat's butt that he has the opinions he has...whichever way you interpret it. I am just saying that my opinion is that he is a lousy announcer and I will cringe the next time I see he is going to be commentating. It does not bother me that he said anything negative about Eli or anything else that he said, or didn't say. It was not just his comments about Eli that I take exception to, so would you all quit trying to turn it into that?

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 10:07 AM
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1055988.1340895282%21/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_635/eli-manning.jpg

Gimme a break people. You all need to lighten up. By NFL standards, he is NOT a great athlete.

GCGiant
09-24-2012, 10:09 AM
I hear you. But I am a first class wiseass who uses sarcasm on a regular basis. I grew up with it in my family. Part of my culture I guess you could say. I am called much worse than a dopey dork and have no issues with it.
Ok so Eli is not dopey but he is deffintely dorky......is that better

I can live with that...because I can see the dorky. Dopey..no, but based soley on the Wonderlic. Again...my critique was of Mayock and how I didn't like his style. If he would've come down on everybody else but Eli, and made similar comments that suggested that he really wished Carolina would show-up, I would've come away feeling the same way.

TheEnigma
09-24-2012, 10:09 AM
If I'm reading this right...you are saying that I am taking up a battle with Mayock...which I am not doing now and never did. I simply gave my opinion on his commentating skills and what appeared to me to be some sort of "hater" attitude towards Eli. I was only giving my observations. The battle is in this forum with guys who for whatever reason feel compelled to go to bat for him. What's funny is that none of this really matters, because I will not change my opinion of his commentating abilities, based on the only 1 game that I can remember him commentating...and I am sure that you will not change yours.

Where do you get a "hater" attitude from Mayock? The guy has nothing but respect for Eli, especially for his performance against the Miami Dolphins last year. I don't recall the exact quote but he was extremely pleased with what Eli did. Athlete is not just a title when guys like Mayock and Kiper use the word but it's a way of describing a player. Would you call Vick an athlete or pocket passer? Is Will Beatty a road grading lineman or an athletic finesse type? Look around the league for talk about Hakeem Nicks and it's never about his speed but rather how physical he is against the secondary and how he plays much taller than his true height. There's tons of players in this league who aren't known as athletic but make a huge impact on this league anyhow. It's just a characteristic that helps people get to know players better is all.

If Mayock hates anyone, it's Cam Newton. Just go to google and type in Can Newton Mike Mayock. Do the same with Eli and you'll be hard pressed to find much or anything at all.

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 10:09 AM
Read my lips. I could give a rat's butt that he has the opinions he has...whichever way you interpret it. I am just saying that my opinion is that he is a lousy announcer and I will cringe the next time I see he is going to be commentating. It does not bother me that he said anything negative about Eli or anything else that he said, or didn't say. It was not just his comments about Eli that I take exception to, so would you all quit trying to turn it into that?
I'm commenting on his comment. I'm making no statement on Tim Mayock. Generally, I don't like the NFLN teams for the past several years.
But to be "offended" by his comments is so silly, its not worth discussion.

GCGiant
09-24-2012, 10:13 AM
I'm commenting on his comment. I'm making no statement on Tim Mayock. Generally, I don't like the NFLN teams for the past several years.
But to be "offended" by his comments is so silly, its not worth discussion.

To me...to be offended that someone takes exception to his style is equally silly.

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 10:17 AM
To me...to be offended that someone takes exception to his style is equally silly.
Who in your little scenario is taking exception to his style? I have no idea what you could possibly be saying.

Buddy333
09-24-2012, 10:20 AM
This reminds me of when so many where calling Siragusa a Giants hater.

TheAnalyst
09-24-2012, 10:29 AM
Honestly, it pissed me off when Eli slid a few yards short on that 3rd down play when it looked like he could of gotten into the endzone, or at least the 1st down. I know, it was smart because we dont want him to take a shot or get hurt, but that was a give up play. He could of easily gotten the first down. He isnt the greatest athlete by any means. Ive seen him run a few in, but there about 25 other QBs that run better then Eli. None are more clutch though with the arm and that is what really matters.

GCGiant
09-24-2012, 10:31 AM
Who in your little scenario is taking exception to his style? I have no idea what you could possibly be saying.

I am taking exception to his style...and there are people here offended by it. Did you understand this time around?

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 10:33 AM
I am taking exception to his style...and there are people here offended by it. Did you understand this time around?
No. Who's style? Mayocks? Why would anyone give a **** about that?

GCGiant
09-24-2012, 10:36 AM
No. Who's style? Mayocks? Why would anyone give a **** about that?

Exactly!

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 10:42 AM
Exactly!
Well I was commenting on someone saying that they were "offended" by Mayocks comments. I think I speak for most people when I say that no announcers on TV, no posters on a MB, have the power to "offend" me. No one who I have never met and who who's opinion I can't possible value, could have that power over me.
Its just a silly as anything I have ever heard here. Someone was "offended" that an announcer said that Eli wasn't a great athlete?
That goes under ther "get a life" catagory.

ashleymarie
09-24-2012, 10:44 AM
Would you guys have been just as offended if they said Chris Snee wasn't an athlete?

Good Lord Almighty! What does Chris Snee have to do with this? I am offended, plenty offended, but not at Mayock. Like Forest says: Stupid is as stupid does.

It's YOU that I am offended by. Acting like Hilter, telling us blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, binga, banga, boom. boom. You may not tell me what I think. Putting ideas and words in to others heads that you know nothing about is ignorant and offensive.. I did not once hear you say you had a face-to-face eye-to-eye sit-down with Mayock, so your putting words in his mouth offends me too. It's merely your opinion!!

GCGiant
09-24-2012, 10:46 AM
Well I was commenting on someone saying that they were "offended" by Mayocks comments. I think I speak for most people when I say that no announcers on TV, no posters on a MB, have the power to "offend" me. No one who I have never met and who who's opinion I can't possible value, could have that power over me.
Its just a silly as anything I have ever heard here. Someone was "offended" that an announcer said that Eli wasn't a great athlete?
That goes under ther "get a life" catagory.

OK...I'm done with this one. I could talk until I am blue in the face and you are going to spin it the way you want, anyway...totally ignoring everything that is countered. Just for the record, though...one more time...nobody offended me...I just gave an opinion...and then people were offended by that.

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 10:47 AM
Good Lord Almighty! What does Chris Snee have to do with this? I am offended, plenty offended, but not at Mayock. Like Forest says: Stupid is as stupid does.

It's YOU that I am offended by. Acting like Hilter, telling us blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, binga, banga, boom. boom. You may not tell me what I think. Putting ideas and words in to others heads that you know nothing about is ignorant and offensive.. I did not once hear you say you had a face-to-face eye-to-eye sit-down with Mayock, so your putting words in his mouth offends me too. It's merely your opinion!!

You are offended by blips on a computer screen?
In God's name why?

GameTime
09-24-2012, 10:47 AM
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1055988.1340895282!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_635/eli-manning.jpg

Gimme a break people. You all need to lighten up. By NFL standards, he is NOT a great athlete.
there you have it people....great QB but you get it now right????

TroyArcher
09-24-2012, 10:48 AM
I guess the following were also not athletes: Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Phil Simms... These so called analysts are so impressed by scrambling QB's that they los the big picture. How many SB's have been won by "scrambling" QB's? Not many.

GMan-67
09-24-2012, 10:51 AM
ha, can you bench as much as Chris Snee?

i think the confusion here is that some people equate athlete to mean the 40 yard dash ... athlete's come in all different shapes and sizes ... you can't really play any sport without being an athlete and certainly not football

the statement should be Eli and Snee arent FAST runners ... i think we'd all agree on that one

Buddy333
09-24-2012, 10:52 AM
Would you say that any of those QB's are better athletes than Vick or RG3? Or what about Locker, Luck, and Smith? The Manning brothers are very good QB's as is Brady, but I don't think you could say they have the same athletic ability as thos guys. Are they better QB's? I would say yes.

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 10:52 AM
OK...I'm done with this one. I could talk until I am blue in the face and you are going to spin it the way you want, anyway...totally ignoring everything that is countered. Just for the record, though...one more time...nobody offended me...I just gave an opinion...and then people were offended by that.
I never assigned any position to you. You just took up the argument. that was your choice.
My point is simple... Eli is just as Mayock described. A great QB, not a great athlete. And when I say athlete, I mean by NFL standards.
To take great exception to this obvious fact, seems a waste of energy.

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 10:53 AM
I guess the following were also not athletes: Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Phil Simms... These so called analysts are so impressed by scrambling QB's that they los the big picture. How many SB's have been won by "scrambling" QB's? Not many.
Did you see Phil before he ruined his knees. He was a great athlete.

TheEnigma
09-24-2012, 10:54 AM
Good Lord Almighty! What does Chris Snee have to do with this? I am offended, plenty offended, but not at Mayock. Like Forest says: Stupid is as stupid does.

It's YOU that I am offended by. Acting like Hilter, telling us blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, binga, banga, boom. boom. You may not tell me what I think. Putting ideas and words in to others heads that you know nothing about is ignorant and offensive.. I did not once hear you say you had a face-to-face eye-to-eye sit-down with Mayock, so your putting words in his mouth offends me too. It's merely your opinion!!

Huh? How am I acting like Hitler? That's a pretty far reach now isn't? I just read over the last few posts of mine and not once did I tell anyone what they were thinking. Considering that the subject of the thread deals with Eli's athleticism and the man (Mike Mayock), it comes across that people were upset or turned away from his analysis of Eli and let that one statement judge Mayock's entire body of work. You have the freedom to make that choice but don't be surprised if some people find that to be illogical.

The Chris Snee comment was used because we all know that we wouldn't have a 14 page thread if it was about him instead of Eli.

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 10:56 AM
Huh? How am I acting like Hitler? That's a pretty far reach now isn't? I just read over the last few posts of mine and not once did I tell anyone what they were thinking. Considering that the subject of the thread deals with Eli's athleticism and the man (Mike Mayock), it comes across that people were upset or turned away from his analysis of Eli and let that one statement judge Mayock's entire body of work. You have the freedom to make that choice but don't be surprised if some people find that to be illogical.

The Chris Snee comment was used because we all know that we wouldn't have a 14 page thread if it was about him instead of Eli.

C'mon...."acting like Hitler" was funny..........Stupid, but funny.

SuperNYGiants
09-24-2012, 11:00 AM
Weatherford is a better athlete than Tynes, now I want to see a thread discussing this going over 50 pages.

TheEnigma
09-24-2012, 11:02 AM
C'mon...."acting like Hitler" was funny..........Stupid, but funny.

I'm sort of flattered actually. Maybe I could get a custom title "Hitler of NYGMB". I'd rock that.

PRGiant
09-24-2012, 11:03 AM
Eli is one of the least atletic QBs in the league roght now...that doesn't mean he sucks!

ashleymarie
09-24-2012, 11:03 AM
OK...I'm done with this one. I could talk until I am blue in the face and you are going to spin it the way you want, anyway...totally ignoring everything that is countered. Just for the record, though...one more time...nobody offended me...I just gave an opinion...and then people were offended by that.

I agree. When MS turns into a spider monkey, jumping all over the place, twisting here, screaming there, swinging from light fixtures when someone corners her trying to get out of his corner, it's time to leave the sickness.

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 11:11 AM
I agree. When MS turns into a spider monkey, jumping all over the place, twisting here, screaming there, swinging from light fixtures when someone corners her trying to get out of his corner, it's time to leave the sickness.
I don't know about a Spider Monkey, but this post certainly does make my head spin. I hope I didn't "put any ideas into your head"

burier
09-24-2012, 11:11 AM
Mike Mayock is certainly not an idiot. And he actually said that Eli isn't a great Athlete...he's a "GREAT QUARTERBACK" How does that translate into a slight against Eli?

Why guys are talking about football players being athletes they're using a modified standard. Of course if you're playing pro footaball you are clearly one of the best athletes in the world..but specifically when it comes to Quarterback we use the athlete tag on the more mobile/running QBs. Its nothing to get offended about.

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 11:14 AM
Mike Mayock is certainly not an idiot. And he actually said that Eli isn't a great Athlete...he's a "GREAT QUARTERBACK" How does that translate into a slight against Eli?

Why guys are talking about football players being athletes they're using a modified standard. Of course if you're playing pro footaball you are clearly one of the best athletes in the world..but specifically when it comes to Quarterback we use the athlete tag on the more mobile/running QBs. Its nothing to get offended about.

Clearly. I guess some folks just hear what they want to hear.

burier
09-24-2012, 11:15 AM
i think it comes down to how u define an athlete. is an nascar driver an athlete? how about a golfer? a bowler?

eli is an athlete, but he isnt very athletic in the sense of the scrambling qb. he looks like a great athlete to me when hes in the pocket or sliding from pressure and throwing a laser 50 yds, but thats just me. diff definitions for diff people, nothing to take too serious imo, plus mayock is awesome as an analyst

Nascar driver, golfer, bowler are all a big NO in my book. Just thought I'd throw that out there

burier
09-24-2012, 11:17 AM
Clearly. I guess some folks just hear what they want to hear.

I'm starting to see what you're saying about how people get about Eli.

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 11:23 AM
I'm starting to see what you're saying about how people get about Eli.
As I have been saying for a while. I have no problem with Eli at all, its these handful of folks who are so fanatical about our fine QB, that they just lose their ability to be reasonable about him.

I what universe is..."He a great QB but not a great athlete" be offensive to Eli fans? He called him a GREAT QB!!! That's not enough for God's sake?

Now Mayock is a bum..a lousy announcer...a lousy draft guy.... Give me a break.

fansince69
09-24-2012, 11:28 AM
Nascar driver, golfer, bowler are all a big NO in my book. Just thought I'd throw that out there

I don't consider any of those things sports so why would they require athletes?

burier
09-24-2012, 11:31 AM
As I have been saying for a while. I have no problem with Eli at all, its these handful of folks who are so fanatical about our fine QB, that they just lose their ability to be reasonable about him.

I what universe is..."He a great QB but not a great athlete" be offensive to Eli fans? He called him a GREAT QB!!! That's not enough for God's sake?

Now Mayock is a bum..a lousy announcer...a lousy draft guy.... Give me a break.

There is some food for thought here.

Maybe 2 or 3 seconds after Mike Mayock said Vontaze Burfict was "undraftable" the board went from "lets take him" to "He's a terrible football player we shouldn't even waste our 7th on him" (He's now the starter in Cinci btw)

So before the draft anything Mayock said was law on this board.

Fast forward a few months Mike Mayock makes a comment on Eli not being a great athlete and he suddenly becomes an idiot?????


Also I remember the quote and Mayock used the word "GREAT"...not "very good".... GREAT which I don't think I've heard any other analyst use in refrence to Eli.

burier
09-24-2012, 11:36 AM
I don't consider any of those things sports so why would they require athletes?

exactly

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 11:37 AM
I don't consider any of those things sports so why would they require athletes?
As a golfer, I take exception to this.

JimC
09-24-2012, 11:49 AM
I don't consider any of those things sports so why would they require athletes?

You sir need to pick up some clubs and give it a try. If you're a good athlete, you'll break 100 the first time you play. Let us know how you make out.

Roswell777
09-24-2012, 12:08 PM
To add to what I said about 6 pages ago, this isn't about Mayock. Heck, it isn't even about Eli Manning. Its about the different skills people use to define what makes an athlete. And it certainly isn't about any of us being offended by one sportscaster's opinion.

It is about how on one side there are those of use who feel that running fast and jumping high are not the only characteristics to define an athlete.

Golf isn't a sport? Tiger Woods isn't a great athlete?

If you feel Brady, Montana and the Manning brothers aren't good athletes as Tebow or Vick because Mike Mayock says so during the combine, as one one poster put forth, gob bless you. To me, the hardest sport to play in professional football is QB and requires remarkable athleticism. I don't know how you can watch any sport and not feel like these guys who throw on the run or demonstrate remarkable touch on their throws are not great athletes.

And Morehead, we are usually on the same page but, while you're at it, post a picture of Babe Ruth and tell me he wasnt a great athlete too.

fansince69
09-24-2012, 12:29 PM
You sir need to pick up some clubs and give it a try. If you're a good athlete, you'll break 100 the first time you play. Let us know how you make out.

golf is a game ..i have played golf...bowling is a game....which by the way I excel at.....I have played foot ball and baseball...they are sports....I am in no way diminishing the skill(skill not athleticism) it takes to play these games but they in no way meet my definition of a sport

A sport requires someone playing against you that can directly affect your ability to play the game...How well I play is directly correlated to my opponent and how well they keep or allow me to play....in golf for example...can your opponent do anything to cost you strokes? no...now if he could stand on the green and block the ball...that would make it a sport...if he could throw his clubs at you while you try to hit....that would make it a sport....Also chances are if I can drink while I play...probably not a sport

If both people can shoot a good game..in the same game probably not a sport

GameTime
09-24-2012, 12:32 PM
golf is a game ..i have played golf...bowling is a game....which by the way I excel at.....I have played foot ball and baseball...they are sports....I am in no way diminishing the skill(skill not athleticism) it takes to play these games but they in no way meet my definition of a sport

A sport requires someone playing against you that can directly affect your ability to play the game...How well I play is directly correlated to my opponent and how well they keep or allow me to play....in golf for example...can your opponent do anything to cost you strokes? no...now if he could stand on the green and block the ball...that would make it a sport...if he could throw his clubs at you while you try to hit....that would make it a sport....Also chances are if I can drink while I play...probably not a sport

If both people can shoot a good game..in the same game probably not a sport
thats your definition of a sport??....you are way off base my friend....
what about skiing......
individual sport and you race against your self. what about track and field...
your theory is shot....

burier
09-24-2012, 12:34 PM
golf is a game ..i have played golf...bowling is a game....which by the way I excel at.....I have played foot ball and baseball...they are sports....I am in no way diminishing the skill(skill not athleticism) it takes to play these games but they in no way meet my definition of a sport

A sport requires someone playing against you that can directly affect your ability to play the game...How well I play is directly correlated to my opponent and how well they keep or allow me to play....in golf for example...can your opponent do anything to cost you strokes? no...now if he could stand on the green and block the ball...that would make it a sport...if he could throw his clubs at you while you try to hit....that would make it a sport....Also chances are if I can drink while I play...probably not a sport

If both people can shoot a good game..in the same game probably not a sport

I agree with you but I'd have to amend your definition as it allows for Nascar to be considered and I don't think driving around in circle is a sport either.

fansince69
09-24-2012, 12:34 PM
what about skiing......
individual sport and you race against your self. what about track and field...
your theory is shot....

sorry not shot...both of those are competitions......unless there is some type of offense and defense not a freaking sport...game or competition ...not a sport

GameTime
09-24-2012, 12:35 PM
I agree with you but I'd have to amend your definition as it allows for Nascar to be considered and I don't think driving around in circle is a sport either.
you are wrong too...
skiing
track and field
most olympic events
gymnastic

GameTime
09-24-2012, 12:35 PM
sorry not shot...both of those are competitions......unless there is some type of offense and defense not a freaking sport...game or competition ...not a sport
so skiing is not a sport...

ok if you say so....

fansince69
09-24-2012, 12:36 PM
I agree with you but I'd have to amend your definition as it allows for Nascar to be considered and I don't think driving around in circle is a sport either.
has to involve a ball or a ball substitute such as a puck

GameTime
09-24-2012, 12:36 PM
sport (spôrt, sphttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/omacr.gifrt) n. 1. a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.

GameTime
09-24-2012, 12:37 PM
has to involve a ball or a ball substitute such as a puck
wrong again....
golf has a ball right??

fansince69
09-24-2012, 12:37 PM
so skiing is not a sport...

ok if you say so....

i just did...spent my whole life skiing.... not a sport

GameTime
09-24-2012, 12:38 PM
i just did...spent my whole life skiing.... not a sport

oh well...
you are wrong anyway....

burier
09-24-2012, 12:38 PM
you are wrong too...
skiing
track and field
most olympic events
gymnastic

I said he needed to fix his definition...

and I'm with you, I'd call most olympic events sports.

GameTime
09-24-2012, 12:40 PM
I said he needed to fix his definition...

and I'm with you, I'd call most olympic events sports.
there in lies the issue.....his definition...
which means nothing really....its all opinion

fansince69
09-24-2012, 12:40 PM
wrong again....
golf has a ball right??

all sports require a ball not every activity with a ball is a sport

SuperNYGiants
09-24-2012, 12:41 PM
Good at golf doesn't necessarily mean you are a world class athlete, you can play golf being out of shape, look at Craig Stadler. In other sports that require being in top physical shape just to compete would make being athletic a more relevant matter. In NFL being athletic as a QB is not really a requirement, in fact most successful QBs are pocker-passers, not the scrambling types. Are all NFL players athletic? Not really, OF and DL are in general least athletic, but they are big and powerful, also having speed and quickness makes them ALL-PRO players, so it's not the norm even at NFL level.

Surprisingly, the two sports that require you to be in top shape and athletic to be competitive is TENNIS and SOCCER. If you are not in shape for those two sports, forget it.

fansince69
09-24-2012, 12:41 PM
there in lies the issue.....his definition...
which means nothing really....its all opinion

exactly...i have this debate with more nascar fans than you can imagine

TheEnigma
09-24-2012, 12:42 PM
To add to what I said about 6 pages ago, this isn't about Mayock. Heck, it isn't even about Eli Manning. Its about the different skills people use to define what makes an athlete. And it certainly isn't about any of us being offended by one sportscaster's opinion.

It is about how on one side there are those of use who feel that running fast and jumping high are not the only characteristics to define an athlete.

If you feel Brady, Montana and the Manning brothers aren't good athletes as Tebow or Vick because Mike Mayock says so during the combine, as one one poster put forth, gob bless you. To me, the hardest sport to play in professional football is QB and requires remarkable athleticism. I don't know how you can watch any sport and not feel like these guys who throw on the run or demonstrate remarkable touch on their throws are not great athletes.

Understood and it's an opinion I can certainly respect but for me personally (I don't want to tell people what they are thinking now), I choose to go by the context that majority of the professional league uses for the sake of keeping discussion about the NFL and it's players free of confusion. There are several words in the English language that are used loosely from it's true definition and as much as I wish it weren't the case, I've accepted that this is how the language and dialect are evolving whether for the better or worse.

Mike Mayock's opninion has no influence on my personal beliefs regarding the athleticism of the NFL QB's but when using the word in their context, I'm inclined to agree even with the likes of Jaws (ewww) if he mentions that Vick is a better athlete than Eli. Now if these guys mentioned that Eli can't throw a pass further than 20 yards or doesn't have the ability to escape pressure, you would see me start to question the integrity of their knowledge.

yoeddy
09-24-2012, 12:42 PM
If aliens landed on this planet and said "We challenge you to a battle for ownership of the Earth...a battle with your greatest athlete!", would you send Eli?

GameTime
09-24-2012, 12:43 PM
all sports require a ball not every activity with a ball is a sport

sport (spôrt, sphttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/omacr.gifrt) n. 1. a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.

fansince69
09-24-2012, 12:44 PM
oh well...
you are wrong anyway....

how can MY opinion and MY definition be wrong?they are just that...mine

GameTime
09-24-2012, 12:44 PM
If aliens landed on this planet and said "We challenge you to a battle for ownership of the Earth...a battle with your greatest athlete!", would you send Eli?

depends....is it the 4th quarter and are we down by 6????

yoeddy
09-24-2012, 12:45 PM
depends....is it the 4th quarter and are we down by 6????

Am guessing they don't play American football on other planets...

GameTime
09-24-2012, 12:45 PM
how can MY opinion and MY definition be wrong?they are just that...mine
your opinion is never worng but a definition has to have merrit. The definition you deem as sport is wrong....in my opinion....:cool:

SuperNYGiants
09-24-2012, 12:46 PM
If aliens landed on this planet and said "We challenge you to a battle for ownership of the Earth...a battle with your greatest athlete!", would you send Eli?
I would send Usain Bolt.

GameTime
09-24-2012, 12:46 PM
Am guessing they don't play American football on other planets...
I am guessing they dont know what an athelet is either....

GameTime
09-24-2012, 12:47 PM
I would send Usain Bolt.
he only runs...
not considered a sport by some on here so there for he is not an athlete

fansince69
09-24-2012, 12:47 PM
your opinion is never worng but a definition has to have merrit. The definition you deem as sport is wrong....in my opinion....:cool:

I guess we agree to disagree...i honestly feel it cant be a sport if during the competition I can't keep you from playing your best

SuperNYGiants
09-24-2012, 12:49 PM
he only runs...
not considered a sport by some on here so there for he is not an athlete
He talks a good smack too, I bet he can intimidate the little green men.

GameTime
09-24-2012, 12:50 PM
I guess we agree to disagree...i honestly feel it cant be a sport if during the competition I can't keep you from playing your best
cool.....
dont forget the mental part of a game is almost as critical as the physical part. Whether its not choking when you are up in the bottom od the 9th or the guy you playing against for 5 million dollars just sunk a birdie on the 18th....

fansince69
09-24-2012, 12:51 PM
cool.....
dont forget the mental part of a game is almost as critical as the physical part. Whether its not choking when you are up in the bottom od the 9th or the guy you playing against for 5 million dollars just sunk a birdie on the 18th....

so games require mental toughness as much as sports

yoeddy
09-24-2012, 12:51 PM
he only runs...
not considered a sport by some on here so there for he is not an athlete

Well, part of my point is that you could probably put a ranked list together of who you would send to do battle with the aliens based on their athletic ability, and I would guess that Eli would fall pretty far down that list. But if the aliens offered their challenge as a football game (or even a QB skills challenge), Eli would rank pretty on the list.

GameTime
09-24-2012, 12:52 PM
so games require mental toughness as much as sports

nice one.....:p

GameTime
09-24-2012, 12:53 PM
Well, part of my point is that you could probably put a ranked list together of who you would send to do battle with the aliens based on their athletic ability, and I would guess that Eli would fall pretty far down that list. But if the aliens offered their challenge as a football game (or even a QB skills challenge), Eli would rank pretty on the list.
dude are ****ing serious....I am just goofing around. .......:)

SuperNYGiants
09-24-2012, 12:54 PM
Eli is deceptively mobile, that should qualify as being athletic. But is he world class mobile? No.

burier
09-24-2012, 01:03 PM
there in lies the issue.....his definition...
which means nothing really....its all opinion

it means something to him..and I'd like to think most people at least want to achieve some level of consistency. He basically says a sport must include a defensive aspect and it must include an object as in a ball or puck.

I don't think its theeeee worst definition I've ever heard, even if I don't agree with it. (Can't really see how you can exclude a sprinter or a gymnast as athletes in a sport in all honesty.)

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 01:04 PM
You sir need to pick up some clubs and give it a try. If you're a good athlete, you'll break 100 the first time you play. Let us know how you make out.
No you won't.
Golf is a game of tremendous skill. Yes it does help to be a good athlete. But you aint breaking 100 your first time out unless there are clowns mouths involved.

burier
09-24-2012, 01:06 PM
No you won't.
Golf is a game of tremendous skill. Yes it does help to be a good athlete. But you aint breaking 100 your first time out unless there are clowns mouths involved.

you said it best. Golf is an activity or game which requires tremendous skill. Not tremendous athleticism thus disqualifying it as a sport... By my personal standards of course.

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 01:07 PM
i just did...spent my whole life skiing.... not a sport
Are you saying that ski racing isn't a sport? Thats nuts. Those folks are tremendous athletes.

fansince69
09-24-2012, 01:08 PM
it means something to him..and I'd like to think most people at least want to achieve some level of consistency. He basically says a sport must include a defensive aspect and it must include an object as in a ball or puck.

I don't think its theeeee worst definition I've ever heard, even if I don't agree with it. (Can't really see how you can exclude a sprinter or a gymnast as athletes in a sport in all honesty.)

Honestly I never said sprinters or gymnasts are not athletes...In fact I think gymnasts are tremendous athletes.....I just do not believe they play a sport.....this is not a debate about athleticism...it is a debate about whats considered a sport.

I think there are sports...there are games and... there are competitions...and they all have athletes playing them ...but they all fall under different criteria as to which is which

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 01:09 PM
you said it best. Golf is an activity or game which requires tremendous skill. Not tremendous athleticism thus disqualifying it as a sport... By my personal standards of course.
Well it doesn't require great athleticism. But I would submit that a jump shooter specialist does not require great athleticism. Nor does a kicker in the NFL. But they both play sports.
This entire "this is a sport and this isn't" is silly. They are essentially all sports that require varying amounts of athleticism to play. Golf is definitely a sport but it doesn't require great athleticism to play.

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 01:10 PM
Honestly I never said sprinters or gymnasts are not athletes...In fact I think gymnasts are tremendous athletes.....I just do not believe they play a sport.....this is not a debate about athleticism...it is a debate about whats considered a sport.

I think there are sports...there are games and... there are competitions...and they all have athletes playing them ...but they all fall under different criteria as to which is which
Well then what is your definition of a sport?

fansince69
09-24-2012, 01:12 PM
Are you saying that ski racing isn't a sport? Thats nuts. Those folks are tremendous athletes.
Your putting words in my mouth... same as my previous post...never said they weren't athletes...I said it's not a sport...you guys are somehow confusing athlete and sport.....
all sports have athletes playing them....but not ALL athletes play sports....some play games and competitions......I don't know how to make this clearer

GameTime
09-24-2012, 01:13 PM
Honestly I never said sprinters or gymnasts are not athletes...In fact I think gymnasts are tremendous athletes.....I just do not believe they play a sport.....this is not a debate about athleticism...it is a debate about whats considered a sport.

I think there are sports...there are games and... there are competitions...and they all have athletes playing them ...but they all fall under different criteria as to which is which
now that kind of makes sense.......

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 01:14 PM
Your putting words in my mouth... same as my previous post...never said they weren't athletes...I said it's not a sport...you guys are somehow confusing athlete and sport.....
all sports have athletes playing them....but not ALL athletes play sports....some play games and competitions......I don't know how to make this clearer
Again...What's your definition of a "sport".

SuperNYGiants
09-24-2012, 01:14 PM
Golf is not a sport? I'm sorry, but that's a load of cow manure standard. Being good at golf requires tremendous PHYSICAL skill, and once you achieve master status and can make a living on it, you make millions at the top level. If it's not regarded as one of the toughest sports, the financial rewards of mastering it wouldn't be as astronomical and be shoved aside with the likes of bowling and billiards where PHYSICAL skill is not demanded as much as other non-physical skills and could be mastered without a rigorous work-out regimen.

fansince69
09-24-2012, 01:14 PM
Well then what is your definition of a sport?

If you look back I gave it......Ive told you the difference between sport games and competitions......anything involving being timed....If my time is better than yours is a competition

GameTime
09-24-2012, 01:15 PM
sport (spôrt, sphttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/omacr.gifrt) n. 1. a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 01:16 PM
If you look back I gave it......Ive told you the difference between sport games and competitions......anything involving being timed....If my time is better than yours is a competition
I'm not asking you you what a sport isn't. I'm asking what you think it IS?

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 01:17 PM
sport (spôrt, sphttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/omacr.gifrt) n. 1. a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
By that definition, golf, skiing, gymnastics etc.. are all sports. And I agree.

fansince69
09-24-2012, 01:17 PM
sport (spôrt, sphttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/omacr.gifrt) n. 1. a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.

Yupp a dictionary definition that was probably written by Webster...It does not mean its accurate today....things change...when I was a kid AIN"T was not a word...now it is

SuperNYGiants
09-24-2012, 01:19 PM
Your putting words in my mouth... same as my previous post...never said they weren't athletes...I said it's not a sport...you guys are somehow confusing athlete and sport.....
all sports have athletes playing them....but not ALL athletes play sports....some play games and competitions......I don't know how to make this clearer
That should be the other way around, because all it requires to be deemed a sport is it being a type of physical activity, and skiing is clearly that. A game, however has more of a competitive nuance to it, so using the term sport to describe a competitive activity sounds wrong.

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 01:19 PM
Yupp a dictionary definition that was probably written by Webster...It does not mean its accurate today....things change...when I was a kid AIN"T was not a word...now it is
What's changed? The human condition is essentially the same.

burier
09-24-2012, 01:20 PM
Golf is not a sport? I'm sorry, but that's a load of cow manure standard. Being good at golf requires tremendous PHYSICAL skill, and once you achieve master status and can make a living on it, you make millions at the top level. If it's not regarded as one of the toughest sports, the financial rewards of mastering it wouldn't be as astronomical and be shoved aside with the likes of bowling and billiards where PHYSICAL skill is not demanded as much as other non-physical skills and could be mastered without a rigorous work-out regimen.

Guy...the monetary aspect has to do with the revenue the sport generates...it has nothing to do with degree of difficulty. No one watches bowling or Billiards, therefore those games generate little revenue therefore you can't make a lot of money playing those games.

fansince69
09-24-2012, 01:22 PM
I'm not asking you you what a sport isn't. I'm asking what you think it IS?

Posts 158 161 and 164 pretty much sum it up......not sure its a definition but it's what i feel the criteria is

yoeddy
09-24-2012, 01:23 PM
dude are ****ing serious....I am just goofing around. .......:)

You mean you'd really send Usain Bolt?

fansince69
09-24-2012, 01:23 PM
What's changed? The human condition is essentially the same.

what changed...do you really think baseball and football and Nascar existed when that definition was written?

BTW just because it is written somewhere...does that mean I have to agree with it?I am thinking no

SuperNYGiants
09-24-2012, 01:27 PM
Guy...the monetary aspect has to due the revenue the sport generates...it has nothing to do with degree of difficulty. No one watches bowling or Billiards, therefore those games generate little revenue therefore you can't make a lot of money playing those games.
I think there's a clear co-relation between the revenue a sport generates and how tough the sport is to master, because if anybody could hit a home-run, those sluggers won't get paid as much. Same thing for the pro golfers being able to hit a drive 300 yards right down the middle. Ameridan football is very popular only because only the gifted ones can play at the top level. Can you claim the same thing with billiards? It's not even comparable.

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 01:28 PM
Posts 158 161 and 164 pretty much sum it up......not sure its a definition but it's what i feel the criteria is
Based on what? What reference are you using.

fansince69
09-24-2012, 01:29 PM
Based on what? What reference are you using.

I am not being a pain but i am not sure what you mean by based on what?Reference?

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 01:30 PM
I think there's a clear co-relation between the revenue a sport generates and how tough the sport is to master, because if anybody could hit a home-run, those sluggers won't get paid as much. Same thing for the pro golfers being able to hit a drive 300 yards right down the middle. Ameridan football is very popular only because only the gifted ones can play at the top level. Can you claim the same thing with billiards? It's not even comparable.
The amount of revenue created is related to how interesting it is to watch. And essentialy how much people are willing to pay to watch. Not how difficult it is to master.
Baseball is more difficult to master than football and baseball creates far less revenue.

fansince69
09-24-2012, 01:31 PM
The amount of revenue created is related to how interesting it is to watch. And essentialy how much people are willing to pay to watch. Not how difficult it is to master.
Baseball is more difficult to master than football and baseball creates far less revenue.

This

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 01:31 PM
I am not being a pain but i am not sure what you mean by based on what?Reference?
There has to be some point of reference. Where are you getting that from? What source? In other words..where is it written?
Or is it just your opinion based on your own experiences and/or prejudices?

burier
09-24-2012, 01:33 PM
I think there's a clear co-relation between the revenue a sport generates and how tough the sport is to master, because if anybody could hit a home-run, those sluggers won't get paid as much. Same thing for the pro golfers being able to hit a drive 300 yards right down the middle. Ameridan football is very popular only because only the gifted ones can play at the top level. Can you claim the same thing with billiards? It's not even comparable.

I mean...I don't know..I'm a pretty good pool player but I'm still pretty damn impressed when I see the pros.

Also think about something like men's gymnastics..(Or gymnastics in general to be fair) the stuff those guys to do is in defiance of physics yet...simply impossible to achieve without years and years of training yet people litterally watch it at the olympics and then forget it exists.

The revenue correlates much more clearly in my view to the watchability (Long bomb TDs, Dunks, Etc) of the game/sport and the type of superstars/personalities associated with the game or sport.

fansince69
09-24-2012, 01:36 PM
There has to be some point of reference. Where are you getting that from? What source? In other words..where is it written?
Or is it just your opinion based on your own experiences and/or prejudices?

That is what I thought you meant....those are my definitions and opinions based on personal experience and a lot of thought through the years....what I have seen and the conclusions I have drawn...as someone that has at some point played most of these things at some point

SuperNYGiants
09-24-2012, 01:36 PM
The amount of revenue created is related to how interesting it is to watch. And essentialy how much people are willing to pay to watch. Not how difficult it is to master.
Baseball is more difficult to master than football and baseball creates far less revenue.
It's interesting to watch because not every person can do it.
More people can play baseball than football. Football is truly an exclusive sport. In that sense, football is tougher to master, and almost impossible for most.

And you often hear from professional athletes that golf is the toughest sport to master.

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 01:39 PM
I mean...I don't know..I'm a pretty good pool player but I'm still pretty damn impressed when I see the pros.

Also think about something like men's gynastics..(Or gymnastics in general to be fair) the stuff those guys to do is in defiance of physics yet...simply impossible to achieve without years and years of training yet people litterally watch it at the olympics and then forget it exists.

The revenue correlates much more clearly in my view to the watchability (Long bomb TDs, Dunks, Etc) of the game/sport and the type of superstars/personalities associated with the game or sport.
Ultimately, a guy who is big, strong and fast, can become a great football player within a short amount of time. To be a great baseball player, or great golfer, required years of dedication and training.
Talent matters, but the years it takes to be a world class baseball player or golfer are noteworthy.

fansince69
09-24-2012, 01:40 PM
It's interesting to watch because not every person can do it.
More people can play baseball than football. Football is truly an exclusive sport. In that sense, football is tougher to master, and almost impossible for most.

And you often hear from professional athletes that golf is the toughest sport to master.

please think that statement through....are you claiming this because every kid in America has been forced by dad to play...that is not what Morehead means....the act of hitting a baseball is the single most difficult feat in sports...when you say everyone plays baseball that is NOT at a competitive level

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 01:43 PM
That is what I thought you meant....those are my definitions and opinions based on personal experience and a lot of thought through the years....what I have seen and the conclusions I have drawn...as someone that has at some point played most of these things at some point
All this "thought" brought you to the conclusion that a "sport" requires a ball or puck? Sounds kind of narrow.

A "sport" has always been a physical competition with a set of rules. Essentially for the enjoyment of competition. This is what it has always been.
Golf, Baseball, Football, Gymnastics, Hockey, Boxing, Track and field....all sports. Some require more athleticism than others, but they are all sports.

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 01:45 PM
please think that statement through....are you claiming this because every kid in America has been forced by dad to play...that is not what Morehead means....the act of hitting a baseball is the single most difficult feat in sports...when you say everyone plays baseball that is NOT at a competitive level
One's ability to play is always directly related to those who you are playing with.
A little league player can't play in the Majors, but he can be great in the Litttle League. The Majors and Little League are both sports.

GameTime
09-24-2012, 01:45 PM
Yupp a dictionary definition that was probably written by Webster...It does not mean its accurate today....things change...when I was a kid AIN"T was not a word...now it is

"Whatever the case, criticism of ain't by usage commentators and teachers has not subsided, and the use of ain't is often regarded as a sign of ignorance. "

just saying...lol

SuperNYGiants
09-24-2012, 01:47 PM
I mean...I don't know..I'm a pretty good pool player but I'm still pretty damn impressed when I see the pros.

Also think about something like men's gynastics..(Or gymnastics in general to be fair) the stuff those guys to do is in defiance of physics yet...simply impossible to achieve without years and years of training yet people litterally watch it at the olympics and then forget it exists.

The revenue correlates much more clearly in my view to the watchability (Long bomb TDs, Dunks, Etc) of the game/sport and the type of superstars/personalities associated with the game or sport.
Let's stick to the sports that are in the business of generating revenue, as much as you say pro pool players doing their tricks being impressive, an average Joe can master it with enough practice, but with football, you need the physical foundation first to even try, and so it's far tougher to master if not impossible.

Gymnastics may look tough to a normal person, but is it really tougher than football where you need a gift to even have a chance? Those gymnasts start out at 4~5 years old, what is the failure rate of kids dropping out because they couldn't do a simple back flip?

There's a reason why you can't make millions playing hand-ball, it's not really a tough skill to master.

fansince69
09-24-2012, 01:48 PM
All this "thought" brought you to the conclusion that a "sport" requires a ball or puck? Sounds kind of narrow.

A "sport" has always been a physical competition with a set of rules. Essentially for the enjoyment of competition. This is what it has always been.
Golf, Baseball, Football, Gymnastics, Hockey, Boxing, Track and field....all sports. Some require more athleticism than others, but they are all sports.

I guess we agree to disagree.....the part about my playing well inhibits your ability to play well is my main criteria an offense and a defense.....you even say it yourself...its a pysical competition...that is different than a sport in my opinion

jomo
09-24-2012, 01:49 PM
The amount of revenue created is related to how interesting it is to watch. And essentialy how much people are willing to pay to watch. Not how difficult it is to master.
Baseball is more difficult to master than football and baseball creates far less revenue.Absolutely right, it is not related to the difficulty. Football in fact is probably the least skilled of all major sports. Why is it that a basketball player can show up at an NFL camp and make the team as a walk on? Could that happen in soccer or basketball? I'm not talking about athleticism but simply the skill sets. Catching a football versus hitting a 25 foot jumper.........no contest. Now obviously to be an NFL quarterback takes very special skills.....physical and mental.

To your original point, the revenue flows from how interesting the sport is not the difficulty in mastering certain skills.

SuperNYGiants
09-24-2012, 01:51 PM
please think that statement through....are you claiming this because every kid in America has been forced by dad to play...that is not what Morehead means....the act of hitting a baseball is the single most difficult feat in sports...when you say everyone plays baseball that is NOT at a competitive level
Hitting a baseball is over-rated, I played baseball as a kid and I could hit it with ease, and I didn't get any professional training either, just watched baseball on TV and learned from it.

Golf on the other hand, made me go crazy sometimes. If you don't get any sort of professional lesson for golf, you have very little chance of being even decent.

B&RWarrior
09-24-2012, 01:52 PM
Eli's not a great athlete as far as speed, and agility are concerned. He's got a strong arm and technically throwing the ball is an athletic move. The commentator was trying to say that he gets paid for his composure, anticipating routes, reading defenses, etc. not running with the football. All this is true.

fansince69
09-24-2012, 01:53 PM
One's ability to play is always directly related to those who you are playing with.
A little league player can't play in the Majors, but he can be great in the Litttle League. The Majors and Little League are both sports.


That is not what i said at all...you need to read the whole conversation that you started...i was agreeing with you

Roswell777
09-24-2012, 01:54 PM
Hitting a baseball is over-rated, I played baseball as a kid and I could hit it with ease, and I didn't get any professional training either, just watched baseball on TV and learned from it.

Golf on the other hand, made me go crazy sometimes. If you don't get any sort of professional lesson for golf, you have very little chance of being even decent.

Wouldn't that depend on who was pitching?

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 01:54 PM
I guess we agree to disagree.....the part about my playing well inhibits your ability to play well is my main criteria an offense and a defense.....you even say it yourself...its a pysical competition...that is different than a sport in my opinion
But that has NEVER been an accepted version of a "sport". EVER!!!
Its just whats rattling around in your head. Thats not a knock. There's plenty of stuff rattling around in my head too. But I don't get to change the definition of a word.
A "Sport" is what it is. I suppose you can say that something isn't a "real sport". But that's just a subjective attitude about something. Its not the objective definition or accurate description. Someone can say..."Golf isn't a real sport" because they disapprove of it being included in other sports they like, but its still a sport.
In other words, the definition of a "sport" isn't really subject to interpretation or debate. Its just what it is.

fansince69
09-24-2012, 01:55 PM
Hitting a baseball is over-rated, I played baseball as a kid and I could hit it with ease, and I didn't get any professional training either, just watched baseball on TV and learned from it.

Golf on the other hand, made me go crazy sometimes. If you don't get any sort of professional lesson for golf, you have very little chance of being even decent.


There's the difference...you played as a kid...I am talking about at the professional level...even the college level...honestly if it was that easy you'd be be playing for Yankees...

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 01:55 PM
That is not what i said at all...you need to read the whole conversation that you started...i was agreeing with you
I didn't mean to suggest you weren't.

fansince69
09-24-2012, 01:57 PM
But that has NEVER been an accepted version of a "sport". EVER!!!
Its just whats rattling around in your head. Thats not a knock. There's plenty of stuff rattling around in my head too. But I don't get to change the definition of a word.
A "Sport" is what it is. I suppose you can say that something isn't a "real sport". But that's just a subjective attitude about something. Its not the objective definition or accurate description. Someone can say..."Golf isn't a real sport" because they disapprove of it being included in other sports they like, but its still a sport.
In other words, the definition of a "sport" isn't really subject to interpretation or debate. Its just what it is.

I guess I don't agree with accepted definition of a sport...to me there is a very distinct difference between sport game and competition...to me it is obvious...I am sorry you can't

GameTime
09-24-2012, 01:59 PM
Hitting a baseball is over-rated, I played baseball as a kid and I could hit it with ease, and I didn't get any professional training either, just watched baseball on TV and learned from it.

Golf on the other hand, made me go crazy sometimes. If you don't get any sort of professional lesson for golf, you have very little chance of being even decent.
your kidding me right???
trying hitting a 90+ mile hour fast ball or a 88 mile hour curve or splitter....
golf is very difficult to master as well.
ANY SPORT OR COMPETTION IS DIFFICULT TO MASTER ON THE PRO LEVEL........

fansince69
09-24-2012, 01:59 PM
I didn't mean to suggest you weren't.

Ok guess I am just feeling ganged up on here....and although we don't agree on definition of sport...I do agree with you on many of your other opinions on here

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 02:01 PM
I guess I don't agree with accepted definition of a sport...to me there is a very distinct difference between sport game and competition...to me it is obvious...I am sorry you can't
Well then call it something else. Call it a spoot, or spert. But a "sport" is what it is.
You can't say that a poodle isn't a dog, just because you don't agree with the definition of a "dog".
You may love dog's and hate poodles. But a poodle is still a dog.

I love it when these threads go off on these tangents. Its no longer about Eli and on these boards...thats a good thing.

GameTime
09-24-2012, 02:01 PM
Well then call it something else. Call it a spoot, or spert. But a "sport" is what it is.
You can't say that a poodle isn't a dog, just because you don't agree with the definition of a "dog".
You may love dog's and hate poodles. But a poodle is still a dog.

I love it when these threads go off on these tangents. Its no longer about Eli and on these boards...thats a good thing.
Who is Eli....and why does he have a poodle???

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 02:02 PM
Who is Eli....and why does he have a poodle???
I wouldn't be shocked if he had one.


Oops! The Cultists are gunna kill me for that one.

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 02:03 PM
Ok guess I am just feeling ganged up on here....and although we don't agree on definition of sport...I do agree with you on many of your other opinions on here
I loved being ganged up on here.
You should have been around for the "whats a real sports dynasty" debate>

GameTime
09-24-2012, 02:05 PM
I wouldn't be shocked if he had one.


Oops! The Cultists are gunna kill me for that one.
Actually truth be told Poodles are some of the most athletic dogs out there. There were originally swimmers and that foo foo haircut they have was to originally protect their critical organs and joints form the cold water but aas not to weight them down so heavily...

a little nugget of dog trivia for you....

burier
09-24-2012, 02:05 PM
Ultimately, a guy who is big, strong and fast, can become a great football player within a short amount of time. To be a great baseball player, or great golfer, required years of dedication and training.
Talent matters, but the years it takes to be a world class baseball player or golfer are noteworthy.

No doubt trying to hit a baseball with a bat is very difficult when the ball is moving 90 miles per hour and Golf I know is a tremendous skill game that takes a long time to master. But I think you're selling football a little short on two fronts.

First being that the percentage of guys big enough strong enough and fast enough to play pro football is very very low. When you look around the NFL its a prototypical league in that most players at a given position are in the standard size range for that position. That means that by and large if I want to play QB in the NFL my dedication most likely will go for naught if I don't get out of bed and stand 6'4 etc etc etc. So there's a tremendous level of exclusivity based on that alone.

Then I'd say to play football at the NFL level you're gonna need several years of work in MOST cases.

GameTime
09-24-2012, 02:05 PM
I loved being ganged up >

alrighty then.....lol

fansince69
09-24-2012, 02:06 PM
I loved being ganged up on here.
You should have been around for the "whats a real sports dynasty" debate>

trust me I was here for that and you are the only one who truly gets what a dynasty is...if memory serves me..iI have been here since 2006 under 3 different id

fansince69
09-24-2012, 02:07 PM
Actually truth be told Poodles are some of the most athletic dogs out there. There were originally swimmers and that foo foo haircut they have was to originally protect their critical organs and joints form the cold water but aas not to weight them down so heavily...

a little nugget of dog trivia for you....

I will stick with Labs

Morehead State
09-24-2012, 02:08 PM
Actually truth be told Poodles are some of the most athletic dogs out there. There were originally swimmers and that foo foo haircut they have was to originally protect their critical organs and joints form the cold water but aas not to weight them down so heavily...

a little nugget of dog trivia for you....
I have a Sheltie named Gogo.
While Shelties are generally great athletes, Gogo is becoming a couch potato.