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View Full Version : Are we witnessing a Changing of the Guard?



JB456
09-25-2012, 11:25 AM
This past week of football was extremely surprising for the majority of us. Who would have predicted that New England, Pittsburgh, Greenbay, New Orleans, Philly, San Francisco, & Detroit would lose in the same week? With all of this happening, I am beginning to think that the once dominant teams are beginning to regress and we could be witnessing a gradual changing of the guard.

Now, I do realize there are some factors that contributed to the above mentioned teams losing such as Bountygate, Playing in Seattle, scab refs, small sample size, etc. but it also seems that the Elite Franchises aren't as dominant as they once were.

With that being said, I was wondering what you fellas have to say about the events that have been occurring.

Toadofsteel
09-25-2012, 11:30 AM
Given that after week 2 there were a record 20 1-1 teams, I think that means the NFL is finally reaching that parity that they've coveted for so long...

Buddy333
09-25-2012, 11:30 AM
They only played 3 games. Not sure why the Saints are a surprise to so many. They don't have their head coach, lost some defensive players, and lost their OG in FA. I think when the Steelers get healthy they will be better, the 49ers are still a very good team, Green Bay should be 2-1, and the Patriots will still win their division. The Eagles are 2-1. I don't care how they got there. They are 2-1, the same record as the Giants.

RagTime Blue
09-25-2012, 11:32 AM
Goes to show that you can't look at a schedule in May, and predict anything.

JimC
09-25-2012, 11:33 AM
This past week of football was extremely surprising for the majority of us. Who would have predicted that New England, Pittsburgh, Greenbay, New Orleans, Philly, San Francisco, & Detroit would lose in the same week? With all of this happening, I am beginning to think that the once dominant teams are beginning to regress and we could be witnessing a gradual changing of the guard.

Now, I do realize there are some factors that contributed to the above mentioned teams losing such as Bountygate, Playing in Seattle, scab refs, small sample size, etc. but it also seems that the Elite Franchises aren't as dominant as they once were.

With that being said, I was wondering what you fellas have to say about the events that have been occurring.

Very interesting. With free agency rules as they are a team can build a winner very quickly, but with the cap rules as they are they are also likely to find themselves in cap trouble. The good free agents will go from team to team trying to make as much money as they can for a short period of time. Teams that want to be good for longer periods will have to spend their money on good coaching staff's and good scouting department personnel so they can continue to find and develop raw talent. It seems like it is exactly what the Giants are trying to do.

GiantVibes
09-25-2012, 11:35 AM
Goes to show that you can't look at a schedule in May, and predict anything.

So true

OX1
09-25-2012, 11:37 AM
Have to love the parity and salary cap of the NFL.
Every team has the same chance (more or less).
If you suck for a long number of years, get a crap load of high
first and 2nd round picks, eventually you have just
too much talent to keep being that bad.

That and it is nice to see defenses (like the cards and seattle)
making a comback. I'm tired of games like a 41-34....

Great for highlight films for the average joe, but
I can watch hard hits from the D popping out those
passes all day long and be jsut as happy as wathcing TD passes.

GCGiant
09-25-2012, 11:44 AM
You think it could have anything to do with new faces calling the penalties. Maybe the replacements don't know that when a GB defender holds the jersey of a receiver that it is not holding or pass interference. That foul can only be called if the defender is dressed in blue, red, white, or any combo of previous mentioned.

GMan-67
09-25-2012, 12:18 PM
it's how the league is ... it's why i cringe when i see people say THE GIANTS NEED TO BE MORE CONSISTENT ... it's like they only know the rest of the league thru highlights ... they dont understand what goes on with other teams

the regular season is a war of attrition ... it's about survival ... pray to avoid key injuries ... have depth ... play 60 minutes, never give up on a game ... to use last year's theme ... FINISH

what i love about this year's team is that we are never out of a game ... we can go 3 quarters with nothing going our way and, yet, we can still win ... that is something to be truly appreciated

oh and more on topic ... each of the last several seasons there have been around 6 teams in the league that didnt make playoffs the season before that make the playoffs ... so it's business as usual ... i wouldnt say changing of the guard ... right now the Cards, Hawks, Bears, Boys, Chargers, Bills and Eagles are all looking to be new playoff teams this season

in a few weeks some other team will have won a couple in a row and be part of the equation

Flip Empty
09-25-2012, 12:25 PM
I honestly thought this was going to be about the o-line...

TroyArcher
09-25-2012, 12:27 PM
It is a long season. There will be 2-3 "surprise" teams as there is most years. I think the 49ers are good, Saints will struggle without their head coach, Detroit does not have character guys to be any good, Philly has been way overhyped the past two years and Vick will not last the season so they will be a middle of the pack team, Giants showed that GB can be beaten but I think they will make the playoffs, Pats will be fine as will the Steelers once they get back their two best defensive players. The Cardinals look really good at the moment.

Ntegrase96
09-25-2012, 12:28 PM
I'm pretty sure that this is nothing new. There have been consistently good teams, but has there really been a dominant team the past few years?

This is what happens when you have not only a salary cap, but a salary floor as well.

Redistribution of talent=parity. I for one don't like what we have in place as of now. I'd be more in favor of a soft cap if we're going to have a salary floor.

CDN_G-FAN
09-25-2012, 12:34 PM
Have to love the parity and salary cap of the NFL.
Every team has the same chance (more or less).
If you suck for a long number of years, get a crap load of high
first and 2nd round picks, eventually you have just
too much talent to keep being that bad.

That and it is nice to see defenses (like the cards and seattle)
making a comback. I'm tired of games like a 41-34....

Great for highlight films for the average joe, but
I can watch hard hits from the D popping out those
passes all day long and be jsut as happy as wathcing TD passes.

+1, i'm with you.

great post.

GMan-67
09-25-2012, 12:36 PM
I'm pretty sure that this is nothing new. There have been consistently good teams, but has there really been a dominant team the past few years?

This is what happens when you have not only a salary cap, but a salary floor as well.

Redistribution of talent=parity. I for one don't like what we have in place as of now. I'd be more in favor of a soft cap if we're going to have a salary floor.

i love the hard cap, i love the parity ... i know Baseball has no cap , but the fact that only a handful of teams can be taken seriously to me takes away from the sport ... also dont forget the team that thrived right before the cap ... yes, the hated Boys ... in this NFL you have to make good football decisions ... you cant buy your way out of bad personnel decisions

NBA has soft cap, but the current champs were entirely built by the players ... that's not good either ... i wouldnt want the best QB, best WR, best LT, best CB and best pass rusher all conspiring to go play together in Dallas

njersey
09-25-2012, 12:43 PM
I honestly thought this was going to be about the o-line...

Ha ha. Me too!

yoeddy
09-25-2012, 12:47 PM
This past week of football was extremely surprising for the majority of us. Who would have predicted that New England, Pittsburgh, Greenbay, New Orleans, Philly, San Francisco, & Detroit would lose in the same week? With all of this happening, I am beginning to think that the once dominant teams are beginning to regress and we could be witnessing a gradual changing of the guard.

Now, I do realize there are some factors that contributed to the above mentioned teams losing such as Bountygate, Playing in Seattle, scab refs, small sample size, etc. but it also seems that the Elite Franchises aren't as dominant as they once were.

With that being said, I was wondering what you fellas have to say about the events that have been occurring.

Not sure I thought Detroit or even SF was part of any kind of "Guard"...they both had good years last year, but prior to that neither was anything to speak of. Philly was 8-8 last year, so their struggles weren't unforeseen. New Orleans lost their head coach...again, not surprising to see them struggle. Green Bay didn't really lose. So that leaves Pittsburgh as the "surprise" loss yesterday...and upsets happen every once in a while...

TheEnigma
09-25-2012, 12:50 PM
Still too early in the season to say for sure. Don't forget that the Giants (5-0) and the Broncos (6-0) went undefeated for so long in the 2009 season before they crash and burned to not make the playoffs.

Laurah1275
09-25-2012, 12:55 PM
Goes to show that you can't look at a schedule in May, and predict anything.That sounds about right. :)

TrueBlue@NYC
09-25-2012, 12:58 PM
it's how the league is ... it's why i cringe when i see people say THE GIANTS NEED TO BE MORE CONSISTENT ... it's like they only know the rest of the league thru highlights ... they dont understand what goes on with other teams

the regular season is a war of attrition ... it's about survival ... pray to avoid key injuries ... have depth ... play 60 minutes, never give up on a game ... to use last year's theme ... FINISH

what i love about this year's team is that we are never out of a game ... we can go 3 quarters with nothing going our way and, yet, we can still win ... that is something to be truly appreciated

oh and more on topic ... each of the last several seasons there have been around 6 teams in the league that didnt make playoffs the season before that make the playoffs ... so it's business as usual ... i wouldnt say changing of the guard ... right now the Cards, Hawks, Bears, Boys, Chargers, Bills and Eagles are all looking to be new playoff teams this season

in a few weeks some other team will have won a couple in a row and be part of the equation

I think the OP is more referring to the very top of the league, the teams that have consistently made the playoffs the past fews years like NE, GB, NO, PIT and BAL.

The thought of teams like NO and PIT missing the playoffs is a little stunning considering how long they've been at the top.

I don't include SF in there b/c they only came back last season, they havent been consistent contenders like these other teams. You can also add last year in which SD and IND both fell after consistently winning their divisions for years.

But that's how it goes in the NFL. It's always changing.

Ntegrase96
09-25-2012, 12:58 PM
i love the hard cap, i love the parity ... i know Baseball has no cap , but the fact that only a handful of teams can be taken seriously to me takes away from the sport ... also dont forget the team that thrived right before the cap ... yes, the hated Boys ... in this NFL you have to make good football decisions ... you cant buy your way out of bad personnel decisions

NBA has soft cap, but the current champs were entirely built by the players ... that's not good either ... i wouldnt want the best QB, best WR, best LT, best CB and best pass rusher all conspiring to go play together in Dallas


I'm not saying any league shouldn't be capped. But I like the idea of a soft cap.

I'm not talking about teams having all the power. I'm talking about teams that can't afford to re-sign their own players because the league limits their spending and forces the bottom feeders to pay out big bucks. It's why the Saints couldn't keep both of the guards that they drafted (Jahri Evans, Carl Nicks). It's why the Giants most likely won't be able to keep Nicks, Eli, Cruz, and JPP.

I don't think you can buy championships in the NFL, but teams shouldn't be limited by anything but their own success/product.

Edit: Also baseball isn't a great analogy. For one, baseball is more individual driven... it's a team game, but a game can end with a score of 1-0 because a batter got the best of a pitcher with a single swing-- nobody else being involved in the play except for maybe the catcher who called the pitch. And secondly, they have playoff series and a much longer season. Much more room for error and overall it's much harder for a poor team to outplay a rich team for 4 out of 7 games.

Even still, Oakland has a better record than any AL East team right now.

JB456
09-25-2012, 01:43 PM
I think the OP is more referring to the very top of the league, the teams that have consistently made the playoffs the past fews years like NE, GB, NO, PIT and BAL.

The thought of teams like NO and PIT missing the playoffs is a little stunning considering how long they've been at the top.

I don't include SF in there b/c they only came back last season, they havent been consistent contenders like these other teams. You can also add last year in which SD and IND both fell after consistently winning their divisions for years.

But that's how it goes in the NFL. It's always changing.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Of course there are always different playoff teams every year but over the last several years there are powerhouse teams like Pitt, NE, NO that were locks to make it. Now, the once dominant teams are edging back into good/average teams.

gmen0820
09-25-2012, 01:59 PM
Who would have predicted that New England, Pittsburgh, Greenbay, New Orleans, Philly, San Francisco, & Detroit would lose in the same week? Every single one except the Saints, and SF.

JB456
09-25-2012, 02:34 PM
Every single one except the Saints, and SF.

1) The point of this thread was to begin a discussion about elite teams losing their status.

2) If everyone of these games except for two were obvious then why have 90% of the country been knocked out of their survivor pools? Because they bet on SF and the Saints? NOPE.

gmen0820
09-25-2012, 04:50 PM
1) The point of this thread was to begin a discussion about elite teams losing their status.

2) If everyone of these games except for two were obvious then why have 90% of the country been knocked out of their survivor pools? Because they bet on SF and the Saints? NOPE.Luckily I was one of the 10% who made a killing with the spread. Hit a 6 team teaser, and 5 of the picks didn't even need the teasing. I could have parlayed them and made 5x, but I'm not complaining.

JB456
09-25-2012, 05:34 PM
Luckily I was one of the 10% who made a killing with the spread. Hit a 6 team teaser, and 5 of the picks didn't even need the teasing. I could have parlayed them and made 5x, but I'm not complaining.

That’s great that you won that money but you are most certainly the exception and not the rule. You had New England, Greenbay and the Stealers at 1 and 2 and the Saints at 0 and 3 to start the 2012 season? If so, I suggest you quit your job (Even if you are a doctor or lawyer) and start professionally handicapping football for a living.

slipknottin
09-25-2012, 05:56 PM
Whats shocking to me is that the AFC north no longer has elite defenses. They are all average at best.

The NFC West is now the division with the great defenses.

Drez
09-25-2012, 06:02 PM
I'm pretty sure that this is nothing new. There have been consistently good teams, but has there really been a dominant team the past few years?

This is what happens when you have not only a salary cap, but a salary floor as well.

Redistribution of talent=parity. I for one don't like what we have in place as of now. I'd be more in favor of a soft cap if we're going to have a salary floor. NE has had a ton of regular season wins the past bunch of years. I want to say over the past 5 years their worst season was 11-5... The year Brady got hurt, and that was the only season that they've missed the playoffs in that span.

Captain Chaos
09-25-2012, 09:16 PM
Any given Sunday!

gmen0820
09-25-2012, 11:02 PM
Thatís great that you won that money but you are most certainly the exception and not the rule. You had New England, Greenbay and the Stealers at 1 and 2 and the Saints at 0 and 3 to start the 2012 season? If so, I suggest you quit your job (Even if you are a doctor or lawyer) and start professionally handicapping football for a living.No, of course not. I just don't find it surprising they lost. I've just been very fortunate this football season, hopefully looking forward to another good week.

cva14
09-25-2012, 11:34 PM
Hey, Toadofsteel...... Just want you to know that I respect a man who is willing to fess up and call one on hiHeymself like you did with Barden. Kudos!

scoopscj
09-26-2012, 01:13 AM
The changing of the guard usually happens when an elite QB retires and the vacency is not filled. The niners lost Young and finally recovered. Miami lost Marino and they still haven't recovered. Fave retired but Rogers was the perfect fit so no decline. Buffalo lost Jim Kelly and haven't been the same since. Dallas lost Aikman. The Giants were pathetic after Simms until Collins and Eli came along. Chargers were bad when Fouts retired. KC hasn't been good since Len Dawson. Vikings lost Culpepper.... Titans lost McNair, Cleveland lost Kosar, Redskins and Theisman, Bengals and Ken Anderson, Denver hasn't been a threat since Elway... you see my point?

Let's look at current Teams who are good but are at the cusp of losing their elite or semi elite QB..

Patriots - soon, a few years to go, Brady will be gone. They better find an elite replacement or else it's going to be bad.
Eagles - Vick is fragile and old. Foles better be the real deal or else it's decline city.


On the Rise ....

Atlanta - Young QB and good D. They will be a force for years
Redskins - I really like this RG3 kid. I think once the Skins get some draft help, they will be very good for years.
Detroit - provided they stay out of jail.



Just my 2 cents


Scoops

BMW
09-26-2012, 04:13 AM
Detroit is the king of losing, not sure why you listed them lol.

M00KIE
09-26-2012, 05:20 AM
I think we're witnessing two things.

1. Just like any other year there are teams that do well, only to faulter later on. It's week 3, you can't honestly rank anyone yet.

2. These refs are effecting wins and losses. What alot of people aren't noticing are the calls that are being missed. In our Tampa game, they had a hold on Nicks jersey on damn near every single play. Not to mention all of the blatant holding, clipping, etc.. not called and then the ticky tack ones that are being called maybe too much. It's having an impact.

JB456
09-26-2012, 09:42 AM
Detroit is the king of losing, not sure why you listed them lol.

Yeah, Detroit wasn't a great example. I actuall see that team trending up.