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elismom
09-26-2012, 09:32 AM
So its 2012. I been light on the boards as of late. I been on here since 2001 and I seen the haters move to supporters.

Is Eli the best QB in football?

I can't give it to Matty because he is Peyton early in his career. Rodgers has come back down to earth a bit here and shows he gets too many chances holding onto the ball. I never thought big ben was as good. Eli is no dbout top 5 becaused you can never say who is the best.

Has anyone seen Shawn Merriman?

GameTime
09-26-2012, 09:38 AM
http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?19889-Is-Eli-Manning-The-Best-Quarterback-in-The-NFL

again???!!!

elismom
09-26-2012, 09:46 AM
You have the choice of not responding to it. I didn't have time this morning to read through 5000000 threads. I just wanted to see my old school boys opinions. ie guys like Harooni and what not. I didn't realize it was posted yesterday. Good link tho. Thanks

I just like to come back and check the pulse. I actually projected HOF QB STATUS and 2 rings. But now I think maybe more lke 2-4 ring area

I was beat up alot on the boards but around the draft of 2004. Reading what Ernie scouted back in the day is also amazing. He saw all this.

GameTime
09-26-2012, 09:48 AM
You have the choice of not responding to it. I didn't have time this morning to read through 5000000 threads. I just wanted to see my old school boys opinions. ie guys like Harooni and what not. I didn't realize it was posted yesterday. Good link tho. Thanks

I just like to come back and check the pulse. I actually projected HOF QB STATUS and 2 rings. But now I think maybe more lke 2-4 ring area

I was beat up alot on the boards but around the draft of 2004

my point exactly.......
why start another pissing contest over the same old ****.....

elismom
09-26-2012, 09:54 AM
Its not a pissing contest brotha. This is my post with my views. I get it. Its been the same way for a long time. Its to early to tell but look at Rodgers, he is struggling and why? Because teams have caught on and because his fall off in players and quite frankly he has a ton more talent around him. Look at Finley, he tweeted some disrespectful things about Rodgers. Albeit it was wrong but he did. You never see that with Eli. Bennett has hafl the talent of Finley but has double the stats this yr and production. The fact is..................QB is more then throwing and being the prima donna. YOur the franchise and nooone can rep their franchise like Eli. Just suits up every single week never misses a snap, never disrespects himself or the franchise or his family. Soak it up boys because this right here doesn;t last forever. Around every other corner Dave Brown waits!! UGH

GameTime
09-26-2012, 10:28 AM
Its not a pissing contest brotha. This is my post with my views. I get it. Its been the same way for a long time. Its to early to tell but look at Rodgers, he is struggling and why? Because teams have caught on and because his fall off in players and quite frankly he has a ton more talent around him. Look at Finley, he tweeted some disrespectful things about Rodgers. Albeit it was wrong but he did. You never see that with Eli. Bennett has hafl the talent of Finley but has double the stats this yr and production. The fact is..................QB is more then throwing and being the prima donna. YOur the franchise and nooone can rep their franchise like Eli. Just suits up every single week never misses a snap, never disrespects himself or the franchise or his family. Soak it up boys because this right here doesn;t last forever. Around every other corner Dave Brown waits!! UGH
not with you per se....but these Eli threads always turn into "I am right and you are wrong"...or..."I told you so"...
like you said I should just avoid them........
As far as the top QBs....IMO they cant be ranked indisputably 1, 2, 3, etc. They top QBs have dif skill sets and many other variables that get brought into the conversation to prove one point or the other. The top QBs are ranked at the top in particular order IMO. Top 5 are top 5 so to speak

Flip Empty
09-26-2012, 10:31 AM
Need a dedicated Eli forum. Swap out the lifeless Fantasy one. Or the lifeless General Sports one.




Or the lifeless Entertainment one...

Morehead State
09-26-2012, 10:35 AM
He's the best QB of all time.

elismom
09-26-2012, 10:37 AM
He's the best QB of all time.
THERE HE IS!! LOL!!!!!

Morehead State
09-26-2012, 10:39 AM
THERE HE IS!! LOL!!!!!
And you are the greatest poster in the history of the Giants MB.

elismom
09-26-2012, 10:53 AM
And you are the greatest poster in the history of the Giants MB.

As I stood against the entire board and defended my sonI thought to myself, "one day will I be the best of a group of idiots" And today I am! Thank you More

Morehead State
09-26-2012, 11:02 AM
As I stood against the entire board and defended my sonI thought to myself, "one day will I be the best of a group of idiots" And today I am! Thank you More
Pound your chest all you want Olivia, but throughout Eli's career he has had some very good play and some very poor play. Poor play that you would defend and most of us would admit. During the last season and the beginning of this year he has played far better than he ever had. He's been more calm and elusive in the pocket and has made far better decisions. He has always thrown a nice ball. And in my view has always been more accurate than some posters gave him credit for. This is just the reality of Eli. Its the evolution of a QB.

Now of course there come you guys who think that somehow you are vindicated by his play. Well forget it. I am quite happy with Eli these days as are all Giants fans.
You guys who are determined to pit Giants fan vs. Giants fan drive me nuts. Its impossible for you to enjoy our team's and our QB's success without trying to make someone else miserable.
Good luck with all of that son.

And you call yourself an old timer. You may remember my battles with Izbo when I vigorously defended Eli for years. But I have always been willing to discuss his shortcomings.

fansince69
09-26-2012, 11:12 AM
Pound your chest all you want Olivia, but throughout Eli's career he has had some very good play and some very poor play. Poor play that you would defend and most of us would admit. During the last season and the beginning of this year he has played far better than he ever had. He's been more calm and elusive in the pocket and has made far better decisions. He has always thrown a nice ball. And in my view has always been more accurate than some posters gave him credit for. This is just the reality of Eli. Its the evolution of a QB.

Now of course there come you guys who think that somehow you are vindicated by his play. Well forget it. I am quite happy with Eli these days as are all Giants fans.
You guys who are determined to pit Giants fan vs. Giants fan drive me nuts. Its impossible for you to enjoy our team's and our QB's success without trying to make someone else miserable.
Good luck with all of that son.

And you call yourself an old timer. You may remember my battles with Izbo when I vigorously defended Eli for years. But I have always been willing to discuss his shortcomings.

I agree with all of this ,plus....the biggest problem I have had through the years...is not the predictions of what he will do ...but that too many on here wanted everyone to give Eli accolades that he hadn't earned yet.....Greatest Qb in Giant history,........Greatest qb in nfl....greatest Qb in history.....all things maybe he will or will not be......but he was NOT those things when all these discussions were taking place......and the arguments would start because many saw Eli as what he might become ...but many claimed he was already there...and he wasn't

elismom
09-26-2012, 11:12 AM
Pound your chest all you want Olivia, but throughout Eli's career he has had some very good play and some very poor play. Poor play that you would defend and most of us would admit. During the last season and the beginning of this year he has played far better than he ever had. He's been more calm and elusive in the pocket and has made far better decisions. He has always thrown a nice ball. And in my view has always been more accurate than some posters gave him credit for. This is just the reality of Eli. Its the evolution of a QB.

Now of course there come you guys who think that somehow you are vindicated by his play. Well forget it. I am quite happy with Eli these days as are all Giants fans.
You guys who are determined to pit Giants fan vs. Giants fan drive me nuts. Its impossible for you to enjoy our team's and our QB's success without trying to make someone else miserable.
Good luck with all of that son.

And you call yourself an old timer. You may remember my battles with Izbo when I vigorously defended Eli for years. But I have always been willing to discuss his shortcomings.

Thank you for that. It takes a big man to step up when he is wrong.

Either way. I am and always will be a EAST RUTHERFORD NJ NATIVE DRINKING I THE LOT for any and all GIANTS PLAYERS!
Maybe one day I will post up my state championship video link of me returning punts in the old stadium. I ain;t from mass brother I grew up in the meadows of NJ!!! SON!

elismom
09-26-2012, 11:15 AM
I agree with all of this ,plus....the biggest problem I have had through the years...is not the predictions of what he will do ...but that too many on here wanted everyone to give Eli accolades that he hadn't earned yet.....Greatest Qb in Giant history,........Greatest qb in nfl....greatest Qb in history.....all things maybe he will or will not be......but he was NOT those things when all these discussions were taking place......and the arguments would start because many saw Eli as what he might become ...but many claimed he was already there...and he wasn't

For me, sitting in the stands of his first win. Where he audibled to Tiki with no timeouts to a run to beat dallas in the 4th qtr I said this kid is special./ To have the b*lls to audible to a run with no timeouts to win a game was alot for a young rookie QB. For me I began to learn at that moment we have a special kid for the next decade or so,. But me, I just know football

Morehead State
09-26-2012, 11:15 AM
Thank you for that. It takes a big man to step up when he is wrong.

Either way. I am and always will be a EAST RUTHERFORD NJ NATIVE DRINKING I THE LOT for any and all GIANTS PLAYERS!
Maybe one day I will post up my state championship video link of me returning punts in the old stadium. I ain;t from mass brother I grew up in the meadows of NJ!!! SON!
Are you coming to the Cleveland game? Thats our annual tailgate party for THEE thread.
I'll be wearing a red carnation and a Hakeem Nicks jersey.

elismom
09-26-2012, 11:17 AM
Are you coming to the Cleveland game? Thats our annual tailgate party for THEE thread.
I'll be wearing a red carnation and a Hakeem Nicks jersey.

No I won't be spending my money on traveling to the Cleveland Game.
But me and my sons will be wearing blue and red come sunday night in Jersey. Doesn't make me less of fan brotha
I GOT BILLS SON!

elismom
09-26-2012, 11:18 AM
No I won't be spending my money on traveling to the Cleveland Game.
But me and my sons will be wearing blue and red come sunday night in Jersey. Doesn't make me less of fan brotha
I GOT BILLS SON!

As a matter of fact I may not make it to one game this yr unless some of my ppl pass me tickets. for me a family of 4 it just cost too much money.
Although I do get hand me down tickets from buddies since I know about 45 parties in the lot but I enjoy the game with my sons who also have inherited the GIANTS GENE

Morehead State
09-26-2012, 11:20 AM
Thank you for that. It takes a big man to step up when he is wrong.

Either way. I am and always will be a EAST RUTHERFORD NJ NATIVE DRINKING I THE LOT for any and all GIANTS PLAYERS!
Maybe one day I will post up my state championship video link of me returning punts in the old stadium. I ain;t from mass brother I grew up in the meadows of NJ!!! SON!
You grew up???
Not me.

fansince69
09-26-2012, 11:21 AM
For me, sitting in the stands of his first win. Where he audibled to Tiki with no timeouts to a run to beat dallas in the 4th qtr I said this kid is special./ To have the b*lls to audible to a run with no timeouts to win a game was alot for a young rookie QB. For me I began to learn at that moment we have a special kid for the next decade or so,. But me, I just know football


I do not disagree with you....I loved the pick when we made it I have been a supporter of him from the start....my problem with most of this is,the people that wanted to heap all kinds of status on him before he actually earned it.........Did I think he was going to be a good/great qb 2004-2006?I sure did......did I disagree with everyone saying he already was a great QB 2004-2006?...yes i sure did

elismom
09-26-2012, 11:22 AM
You grew up???
Not me.

Unfortunetly I have and right in our dear sweet Meadowlands backyard

elismom
09-26-2012, 11:25 AM
I do not disagree with you....I loved the pick when we made it I have been a supporter of him from the start....my problem with most of this is,the people that wanted to heap all kinds of status on him before he actually earned it.........Did I think he was going to be a good/great qb 2004-2006?I sure did......did I disagree with everyone saying he already was a great QB 2004-2006?...yes i sure did

This is the greatest league in modern day sports. It takes time for ppl to mature. He had the mind and the work ethic and thats what attracted me to him.
Good players become great with hard work. Some great players never work. This kids work ethic is uncanny. I always felt that it would some day pay off, thats all. He has good level talent. He has extrordanary mind and work ethic. They did dub his college dorm rom the bat cave. You think Mike Vick is doing that? No. You think Brees is? Yes. And thus is why Easy is a top 5 qb in todays game. Healthy and in 5-7 yers we will look at his stats and not believe he is entering into an arena were not many have gone, EVEN HIS BRO!

elismom
09-26-2012, 11:29 AM
However I will admit I am a total sucker for the under dog. BIG TIME! I was a bit supporter of AROD too pre 2009 when he literally carried the yankees to a ring. Everyone these days is half empty. The media stuffs crap down our throats and half the sheep just follow the heard. I root for the underdog. Even when they just pile on to just pile on. That was Eli in the 04 to pre super bowl era

Toadofsteel
09-26-2012, 11:30 AM
What I like about Eli is his toughness more than anything else.

fansince69
09-26-2012, 11:30 AM
This is the greatest league in modern day sports. It takes time for ppl to mature. He had the mind and the work ethic and thats what attracted me to him.
Good players become great with hard work. Some great players never work. This kids work ethic is uncanny. I always felt that it would some day pay off, thats all. He has good level talent. He has extrordanary mind and work ethic. They did dub his college dorm rom the bat cave. You think Mike Vick is doing that? No. You think Brees is? Yes. And thus is why Easy is a top 5 qb in todays game. Healthy and in 5-7 yers we will look at his stats and not believe he is entering into an arena were not many have gone, EVEN HIS BRO!


I will not argue with anything you just said....agree 100%....as I said...I have never been against ELI......It was almost funny few years back on these boards watching half the board...claim how bad he was and would never amount to anything...ect ect....and the other half claiming his spot in the HOF was all set....I was always somewhere in the middle...seeing somewhat of both sides.....although I KNEW eli was never as bad as many claimed.....I couldn't quite commit to the idea that the hall was just beckoning at that time

NYKiller
09-26-2012, 11:34 AM
Eli is becoming a dangerous QB as I said before his last performance. He need to show more consistence. However, he has some pro bowl talent on offense to work with. I still have him rank behind his brother, Brady, Brees and Rogers. I am not just looking at playoff performance, I'm looking at the regular season as well. And the guys I put in front of him, may all be heading to the hall of fame.

elismom
09-26-2012, 11:44 AM
What I like about Eli is his toughness more than anything else.

Thats the part that seperates him and makes him great. The uni never comes off. Stability is what wins in this league

Look at the Black Unicorn. he is slowly becoming star. I wonder if he can accept why that is unlike Mr Boss

elismom
09-26-2012, 11:47 AM
Eli is becoming a dangerous QB as I said before his last performance. He need to show more consistence. However, he has some pro bowl tallent on offense to work with. I still have him rank behind his brother, Brady, Brees and Rogers. I am not just looking at playoff performance, I'm looking at the regular season as well. And the guys I put in front of him, may all be heading to the hall of fame.

Rodgers has a long way to go. He has a career 132 tds to eli's 185. Eli also has just 10k more throwing yards.
Eli 27000 yards
Rodgers 17000
And Rodgers is going to the HALL but ELI IS NOT?? LOL

No Breezy has 40k yards and over 200 tds. Thats anothe discussion. And the other 2 I feel the same as you. Although beating Brady twice along with the best defensive mind in our generation is good too

GameTime
09-26-2012, 11:48 AM
Eli....ehh...he's ok. He will do for now

elismom
09-26-2012, 11:48 AM
Eli....ehh...he's ok. He will do for now

Sad thing is. He will be just for now. So spoiled. Eli wil be loved more in 2020 then now. We all know that for sure

GameTime
09-26-2012, 11:50 AM
Sad thing is. He will be just for now. So spoiled. Eli wil be loved more in 2020 then now. We all know that for sure
then we can have a real QB like Rivers.....

elismom
09-26-2012, 11:51 AM
You know what I find crazy. Peyton Manning has 100 more td's then Brady
Pretty amazing when you think about it. I dunno man. Manning has 2 more yrs left. He has dropped a little bit. I know he is not fully recoverd but my man is a bit old for this huge comeback. He needs to be a game manager. Shame, he was the best QB to ever play the game. With a bad ending here there will be a good argument he is not. Healthy he was heading down a road never seen before

GameTime
09-26-2012, 11:58 AM
You know what I find crazy. Peyton Manning has 100 more td's then Brady
Pretty amazing when you think about it. I dunno man. Manning has 2 more yrs left. He has dropped a little bit. I know he is not fully recoverd but my man is a bit old for this huge comeback. He needs to be a game manager. Shame, he was the best QB to ever play the game. With a bad ending here there will be a good argument he is not. Healthy he was heading down a road never seen before
His ranking in the history of football will be what it is now. He is a legend of the game. Its a combo of him being older and trying to comeback from injury and on top of that a dif system and division and atmosphere. A lot to ask of any QB. I ownt judge his come back until at least a half season or more. Just getting used to new players and a system will be a issue. After its all said and done nothing will tarnish his career.

gumby74
09-26-2012, 12:02 PM
You know what I find crazy. Peyton Manning has 100 more td's then Brady
Pretty amazing when you think about it. I dunno man. Manning has 2 more yrs left. He has dropped a little bit. I know he is not fully recoverd but my man is a bit old for this huge comeback. He needs to be a game manager. Shame, he was the best QB to ever play the game. With a bad ending here there will be a good argument he is not. Healthy he was heading down a road never seen before

Peyton started fast out of the Gate. It took Brady (and Brees) a good 7 years to turn it on. Incidentally, it's around the same time Eli turned it on as well. Hopefully the results are similar.

fansince69
09-26-2012, 12:10 PM
Peyton started fast out of the Gate. It took Brady (and Brees) a good 7 years to turn it on. Incidentally, it's around the same time Eli turned it on as well. Hopefully the results are similar.

Brady pretty much was on top the minute he walked on the field...although he sat a couple years before Bledsoe got hurt.....Brees did absolutely nothing for the chargers which is why they drafted(traded) for Rivers and then said bye to Brees....I am not sure Brady is a good correlation but Brees might be

Morehead State
09-26-2012, 12:12 PM
Peyton started fast out of the Gate. It took Brady (and Brees) a good 7 years to turn it on. Incidentally, it's around the same time Eli turned it on as well. Hopefully the results are similar.
Huh?
Brady won 3 SB's in his first 4 years as a starter.
Brees had great production in his 3 year as a starter and has continued that since.
And while Eli has generally had better than average production from season 2 on, his first great season was last year.

GameTime
09-26-2012, 12:14 PM
Huh?
Brady won 3 SB's in his first 4 years as a starter.
Brees had great production in his 3 year as a starter and has continued that since.
And while Eli has generally had better than average production from season 2 on, his first great season was last year.
Come on....Eli has been great since day one.....:p

fansince69
09-26-2012, 12:18 PM
Huh?
Brady won 3 SB's in his first 4 years as a starter.
Brees had great production in his 3 year as a starter and has continued that since.
And while Eli has generally had better than average production from season 2 on, his first great season was last year.


I honestly Don't remember Brees doing anything to come close to being a number 1 pick....average at best...seems like he got hurt too....I just felt that's why they wanted Rivers

GameTime
09-26-2012, 12:19 PM
I honestly Don't remember Brees doing anything to come close to being a number 1 pick....average at best...seems like he got hurt too....I just felt that's why they wanted Rivers
AJ Smith.....nuff said

fansince69
09-26-2012, 12:25 PM
AJ Smith.....nuff said

he is no Jerry Reese....nuff said

Morehead State
09-26-2012, 12:29 PM
Come on....Eli has been great since day one.....:p
Oh yeah........I forgot.

burier
09-26-2012, 12:30 PM
Brady pretty much was on top the minute he walked on the field...although he sat a couple years before Bledsoe got hurt.....Brees did absolutely nothing for the chargers which is why they drafted(traded) for Rivers and then said bye to Brees....I am not sure Brady is a good correlation but Brees might be

People seem to forget that when Brady took over for Bledsoe he was asked to minimize turnovers and little esle. That year the Pats played D, ran the ball and threw little dinky passes all the way to the Superbowl.

The following Year Brady wasn't very impressive and the Pats missed the playoffs. And honestly Brady never really put up super gaudy numbers until 07.

Morehead State
09-26-2012, 12:31 PM
Rodgers has a long way to go. He has a career 132 tds to eli's 185. Eli also has just 10k more throwing yards.
Eli 27000 yards
Rodgers 17000
And Rodgers is going to the HALL but ELI IS NOT?? LOL

No Breezy has 40k yards and over 200 tds. Thats anothe discussion. And the other 2 I feel the same as you. Although beating Brady twice along with the best defensive mind in our generation is good too
Rodgers has been a starter for 4 years. Eli for 8.
Do the math.

fansince69
09-26-2012, 12:32 PM
Rodgers has been a starter for 4 years. Eli for 8.
Do the math.

lol

Morehead State
09-26-2012, 12:32 PM
People seem to forget that when Brady took over for Bledsoe he was asked to minimize turnovers and little esle. That year the Pats played D, ran the ball and threw little dinky passes all the way to the Superbowl.

The following Year Brady wasn't very impressive and the Pats missed the playoffs. And honestly Brady never really put up super gaudy numbers until 07.
Whats the standard? Super gaudy numbers? Brady is great and has been since he took over for Bledsoe.

CowboysSuck
09-26-2012, 12:37 PM
Numbers do not make the man. Look at Dan Marino; He will forever be "that guy" who never could win the Big One.

Brady:3
Roethlisberger:2
Eli: 2
Rodgers: 1
Peyton: 1
Brees: 1

Romo:0 ahahah
Vick: 0 ahahaha

So, by my math, there are only 6 SB winning Qb's in the league right now. Am I missing anyone?


Until further notice, Eli is #2 or #3 in the league right now. Arguments can only be made for Brady and Roethlisberger IMO. Of course there's also his brother, Brees, and Rodgers but thats it.

If he isn't in the running for top 5, something is wrong with whoever is analyzing.

fansince69
09-26-2012, 12:37 PM
People seem to forget that when Brady took over for Bledsoe he was asked to minimize turnovers and little esle. That year the Pats played D, ran the ball and threw little dinky passes all the way to the Superbowl.

The following Year Brady wasn't very impressive and the Pats missed the playoffs. And honestly Brady never really put up super gaudy numbers until 07.

What ever he was doing he was winning and with winning there comes a certain amount of glory...wheather is was because he was throwing or managing


btw his first year he started 14 games and threw for just shy of 3000 he had 3600 or more every year except the one he was hurt.....pretty good stats if you ask me

Morehead State
09-26-2012, 12:42 PM
Numbers do not make the man. Look at Dan Marino; He will forever be "that guy" who never could win the Big One. Eli has 2. Rodgers has 1.

Until further notice, Eli is #2 or #3 in the league right now. Behind only Brady, his brother, and maybe Brees or Rodgers, but thats it.

If he isn't in the running for top 5, something is wrong with whoever is analyzing.
Now we're going after Dan Marino? He was a one man team and I'm sorry, but a one man team can't win a championship.
He was one of the truly great QB's of all time.
His teams had very bad defenses and no running game. And this "couldn't win the big one" is absolute nonsense. That kid could friggin play, and was a super tough competitor.

Mohann
09-26-2012, 12:42 PM
Eli is clearly the #1 thread topic on the boards. But the best QB in the league is clearly Aarondrew Peytonbreestom Rodgersmanning "Eli" Brady

fansince69
09-26-2012, 12:45 PM
Now we're going after Dan Marino? He was a one man team and I'm sorry, but a one man team can't win a championship.
He was one of the truly great QB's of all time.
His teams had very bad defenses and no running game. And this "couldn't win the big one" is absolute nonsense. That kid could friggin play, and was a super tough competitor.

anyone who complains that he couldn't win the big one or in some way slights his numbers either never saw him play...or does not understand this game

elismom
09-26-2012, 12:45 PM
Now we're going after Dan Marino? He was a one man team and I'm sorry, but a one man team can't win a championship.
He was one of the truly great QB's of all time.
His teams had very bad defenses and no running game. And this "couldn't win the big one" is absolute nonsense. That kid could friggin play, and was a super tough competitor.

Dude for me. No matter what Dan is a top 3 QB. Guy was awesome. However his attirude about wanting to throw 24x7 and not have a running game was foolish

CowboysSuck
09-26-2012, 12:49 PM
Now we're going after Dan Marino? He was a one man team and I'm sorry, but a one man team can't win a championship.
He was one of the truly great QB's of all time.
His teams had very bad defenses and no running game. And this "couldn't win the big one" is absolute nonsense. That kid could friggin play, and was a super tough competitor.

I agree with you, I never said he wasn't a beast of a man. However, do you not agree that he will always be known as that one great QB who never won "The Big One" ? Because he is and always will be.

COULD YOU EVEN IMAGINE the bashing Eli would still be taking had he lost those 2 SB's? He would still be poor little Eli. I dont even want to imagine the stuff people would say about Eli had he not won those two.

burier
09-26-2012, 12:51 PM
Whats the standard? Super gaudy numbers? Brady is great and has been since he took over for Bledsoe.

I'd say he set his own standard. Just look at what he did in 07 and compare it to his previous seasons. You're more sensative about Tom Brady than any of us are about Eli by the way.

gumby74
09-26-2012, 12:54 PM
Huh?
Brady won 3 SB's in his first 4 years as a starter.
Brees had great production in his 3 year as a starter and has continued that since.
And while Eli has generally had better than average production from season 2 on, his first great season was last year.

Statistically, Matt brought it up to my attention that the first 6/7 years between the 3 were very similar. He was correct, if my memory services me correctly. Last season was when Eli came into his own - which marked his 8th year I believe.

SuperNYGiants
09-26-2012, 12:55 PM
I can't rank Eli right now against all time greats because Eli's career is not over yet.

gumby74
09-26-2012, 12:55 PM
I agree with you, I never said he wasn't a beast of a man. However, do you not agree that he will always be known as that one great QB who never won "The Big One" ? Because he is and always will be.

COULD YOU EVEN IMAGINE the bashing Eli would still be taking had he lost those 2 SB's? He would still be poor little Eli. I dont even want to imagine the stuff people would say about Eli had he not won those two.

I beg to differ. If he continues to play the way he has for the last year and a half, no one would be bashing him.

CowboysSuck
09-26-2012, 12:58 PM
When all is said and done one thing is for sure: Eli will have a crap ton of yards with at least 2 SB's wins with a classic, famous team NYG and a hall of fame coach TC.

Regardless of his legacy, I will always love him for the great memories. Great runs, ups a downs, and most of all: two of the most exhilerating SB's wins I can remember. I love the guy.

elismom
09-26-2012, 12:59 PM
I can't rank Eli right now against all time greats because Eli's career is not over yet.


Him the man the person, there is no end.
His stats, another story

SuperNYGiants
09-26-2012, 12:59 PM
I agree with you, I never said he wasn't a beast of a man. However, do you not agree that he will always be known as that one great QB who never won "The Big One" ? Because he is and always will be.

COULD YOU EVEN IMAGINE the bashing Eli would still be taking had he lost those 2 SB's? He would still be poor little Eli. I dont even want to imagine the stuff people would say about Eli had he not won those two.
I'd put Jim Kelly in that category as well, the timing couldn't be any worse for running into the beast NFC East teams 4 in a row.

CowboysSuck
09-26-2012, 01:01 PM
I agree with you, I never said he wasn't a beast of a man. However, do you not agree that he will always be known as that one great QB who never won "The Big One" ? Because he is and always will be.

COULD YOU EVEN IMAGINE the bashing Eli would still be taking had he lost those 2 SB's? He would still be poor little Eli. I dont even want to imagine the stuff people would say about Eli had he not won those two.


I beg to differ. If he continues to play the way he has for the last year and a half, no one would be bashing him.


I beg to differ your beg to differ. Eli takes heat now and again as it is. He still wasn't considered Elite after his first SB win, what makes you think he would get any love with 0 SB wins?

Put it this way, the only QB's in this league with SB wins are:

Brady
Big Ben
Eli
Peyton
Brees
Rodgers.

Thats it. Now, wouldnt you consider all of them "elite"? And also, are there any QB's in this league who are considered "elite" who havent won the big one? I think the answer is no.

fansince69
09-26-2012, 01:07 PM
I beg to differ your beg to differ. Eli takes heat now and again as it is. He still wasn't considered Elite after his first SB win, what makes you think he would get any love with 0 SB wins?

Put it this way, the only QB's in this league with SB wins are:

Brady
Big Ben
Eli
Peyton
Brees
Rodgers.

Thats it. Now, wouldnt you consider all of them "elite"? And also, are there any QB's in this league who are considered "elite" who havent won the big one? I think the answer is no.


you are comparing apples and oranges....marino had huge numbers no super bowls....are there guys currently in NFL that are putting up Marino numbers FOR MANY years that havent won? NO


by your logic Trent dilfer>Marino
doug williams> marino

CowboysSuck
09-26-2012, 01:11 PM
you are comparing apples and oranges....marino had huge numbers no super bowls....are there guys currently in NFL that are putting up Marino numbers FOR MANY years that havent won? NO


by your logic Trent dilfer>Marino
doug williams> marino

I'm no longer speaking of Dan Marino lol.

I'm just talking about the current state of the NFL and how it is very coincidental that there are no "elite QB's" that havent won the big one. Is that just a coincidence? Probably. But it is interesting you must admit.

gumby74
09-26-2012, 01:12 PM
Whats the standard? Super gaudy numbers? Brady is great and has been since he took over for Bledsoe.


I'd say he set his own standard. Just look at what he did in 07 and compare it to his previous seasons. You're more sensative about Tom Brady than any of us are about Eli by the way.


I beg to differ your beg to differ. Eli takes heat now and again as it is. He still wasn't considered Elite after his first SB win, what makes you think he would get any love with 0 SB wins?

Put it this way, the only QB's in this league with SB wins are:

Brady
Big Ben
Eli
Peyton
Brees
Rodgers.

Thats it. Now, wouldnt you consider all of them "elite"? And also, are there any QB's in this league who are considered "elite" who havent won the big one? I think the answer is no.

Well, if he didn't up his level of play last year, then yes I agree with you, he'd still be questioned.

Because the last year and a half Eli has been playing out of his damn mind. Any Eli critic in the past can tell you that. Heck, any Eli critic in the media or any other source can tell you that. It's pretty much unanimous. If Eli continues his level of play, no one short of a troll can say anything.

This whole argument of # of SB wins doesn't hold water. It's a team sport. Brandon Jacobs won 2 rings with us. Does that make him any better than he is? Nope.

CowboysSuck
09-26-2012, 01:15 PM
Well, if he didn't up his level of play last year, then yes I agree with you, he'd still be questioned.

Because the last year and a half Eli has been playing out of his damn mind. Any Eli critic in the past can tell you that. Heck, any Eli critic in the media or any other source can tell you that. It's pretty much unanimous. If Eli continues his level of play, no one short of a troll can say anything.

This whole argument of # of SB wins doesn't hold water. It's a team sport. Brandon Jacobs won 2 rings with us. Does that make him any better than he is? Nope.

C'mon, it definitely holds SOME weight. I mean, it is the Superbowl, no?

Isnt it interesting though, that the only "elite qb's" are the only 6 that are playing and have a ring? I think thats pretty cool/fun fact.

GameTime
09-26-2012, 01:24 PM
the top 5 QBs at any given time can be interchanged from week to week. They all have dif skill sets and different variables that make them who and what they are. You can twist any of those variables to satisfy your arguement for who is better then the other.

gumby74
09-26-2012, 01:25 PM
Well, if he didn't up his level of play last year, then yes I agree with you, he'd still be questioned.

Because the last year and a half Eli has been playing out of his damn mind. Any Eli critic in the past can tell you that. Heck, any Eli critic in the media or any other source can tell you that. It's pretty much unanimous. If Eli continues his level of play, no one short of a troll can say anything.

This whole argument of # of SB wins doesn't hold water. It's a team sport. Brandon Jacobs won 2 rings with us. Does that make him any better than he is? Nope.


C'mon, it definitely holds SOME weight. I mean, it is the Superbowl, no?

Isnt it interesting though, that the only "elite qb's" are the only 6 that are playing and have a ring? I think thats pretty cool/fun fact.

If people want to make the SB and post season as something that improves a players performance, then all I expect as a reader is for them to be consistent. If it applies to Eli, than it also applies to everyone else. Along the same lines, those same people that use the SB argument would never concede that Ben is a better QB than Eli. But, yet he has had more post season success - much more so.

See what I'm getting at?

GameTime
09-26-2012, 01:28 PM
If people want to make the SB and post season as something that improves a players performance, then all I expect as a reader is for them to be consistent. If it applies to Eli, than it also applies to everyone else. Along the same lines, those same people that use the SB argument would never concede that Ben is a better QB than Eli. But, yet he has had more post season success - much more so.

See what I'm getting at?

the top 5 QBs at any given time can be interchanged from week to week. They all have dif skill sets and different variables that make them who and what they are. You can twist any of those variables to satisfy your arguement for who is better then the other.

fansince69
09-26-2012, 01:31 PM
the top 5 QBs at any given time can be interchanged from week to week. They all have dif skill sets and different variables that make them who and what they are. You can twist any of those variables to satisfy your arguement for who is better then the other.

ok now its just funny

GameTime
09-26-2012, 01:32 PM
ok now its just funny
damn....I wanted it to be annoying....

fansince69
09-26-2012, 01:34 PM
damn....I wanted it to be annoying....

you probably are annoying some that are way to serious...I am sure you have met your goal

elismom
09-26-2012, 01:44 PM
the top 5 QBs at any given time can be interchanged from week to week. They all have dif skill sets and different variables that make them who and what they are. You can twist any of those variables to satisfy your arguement for who is better then the other.

on playoff apperances. that should change your views
Same teams win SB's Why?

elismom
09-26-2012, 01:45 PM
Because with your theory, matt shaub is in todays discussion

GameTime
09-26-2012, 01:46 PM
on playoff apperances. that should change your views
Same teams win SB's Why?
my main point is there are variables with each that can be twisted. Of course there are hard facts as well.
But the evry fact that it is such a heated debate shows you there are no clear cut winner here.

GameTime
09-26-2012, 01:47 PM
Because with your theory, matt shaub is in todays discussion
No my therory is what most would call the top 5 QBs in the league not based on week to week stats. But on body of work for several seasons.