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View Full Version : Is Eli being over-confident?



SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 12:39 PM
Some of the throws he's chucking it out there, I can only shake my head in utter disgust.

Apparently crazy Gilbride still thinks Eli is a gun-slinger when he isn't. Eli is at his best when he is managing the game with a nice touch of run game support.

The more Eli throws, the chances of losing the game goes up, it's true.

fizzlesticks
10-02-2012, 12:43 PM
The more Eli throws, the chances of losing the game goes up, it's true.

Have any stats to back that up?

burier
10-02-2012, 12:45 PM
Some of the throws he's chucking it out there, I can only shake my head in utter disgust.

Apparently crazy Gilbride still thinks Eli is a gun-slinger when he isn't. Eli is at his best when he is managing the game with a nice touch of run game support.

The more Eli throws, the chances of losing the game goes up, it's true.

Eli is indeed a gunslinger. He's at his best when he's at his best. That simple. last season he clearly wasn't a game manager and clear had no run support or help from the D and he had his best year ever. Not really sure what you're trying to say here but all of your points are patently false.

giantsfan420
10-02-2012, 12:48 PM
ugh. no offense to the OP and this isnt directed at him really, but do ppl understand that he made MAYBE TWO bad throws/decisions that entire philly game?like one bad throw vs Carolina for the entire game?
TB, he did have that 3 int first half but he played FLAWLESSLY the 2nd. Even vs Dallas, he missed MAYBE two throws? he's playing at such a high level that I hope he's extremely confident in himself. he doesnt strike me as the kinda guy who'd be OVER confident, he's very stoic and good at not disclosing his emotions....
romo just threw 5 ints, but he also threw his teammates under the bus in some of his post game remarks. he blamed the ints on how he had to try and do too much bc of the lack of help he was apparently not getting...thats overconfident, when u cant even admit a terrible performance was your fault...eli's never done anything but accept the blame even when its not always his...

joemorrisforprez
10-02-2012, 12:49 PM
Some of the throws he's chucking it out there, I can only shake my head in utter disgust.

Apparently crazy Gilbride still thinks Eli is a gun-slinger when he isn't. Eli is at his best when he is managing the game with a nice touch of run game support.

The more Eli throws, the chances of losing the game goes up, it's true.

It's up to the Coach to bring him back down to earth during certain situations.

When the Eagles were flagged and the Giants had the ball at the 26......that next play should have been Coughlin's call, not Eli's.

Eli runs the offense.....Coughlin runs the team, including the special teams. Tynes has been kicking terrific.....Eli hurt the special team's chance to win the game based on that risky throw....which was a check out from a running play.

ReiRiza
10-02-2012, 12:50 PM
6'6'' Ramses Barden

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 12:50 PM
Eli was gun slinging last year and what was the record? 9-7
In 2008 with a nice run support 10-1 (post Burress gunshot doesn't count)

And you are saying Eli's gun-slilnging 4th qt comebacks is more effective? No, last season was an exception, not the norm, if Eli has to play gun-slinger again, it won't be as successful because that's not Eli's game.

Rudyy
10-02-2012, 12:51 PM
Again, it was a bad call to throw it to Barden, that doesn't mean he's being over confident, just a bad decision.

repeatchamps
10-02-2012, 12:53 PM
It's up to the Coach to bring him back down to earth during certain situations.

When the Eagles were flagged and the Giants had the ball at the 26......that next play should have been Coughlin's call, not Eli's.

Eli runs the offense.....Coughlin runs the team, including the special teams. Tynes has been kicking terrific.....Eli hurt the special team's chance to win the game based on that risky throw....which was a check out from a running play.

Bingo! This is what I said Sunday night after the game. In this one instance, just before the 2nd and 9 play to Barden, yell in Eli's helmet that you are going to run the ball, no audible, no reading the defense, line up, run it up the gut nothing else. Folks who cannot be confident in Tynes (who has kicked game winners in two NFC Title games on the road in horrendous field conditons) kicking a 40-44 yard FG who has yet to miss a kick up until that point this season are misguided terribly.

giantsfan420
10-02-2012, 12:54 PM
Super- i think ur 100% wrong about that prior assessment. of course u want the run game to work. every team/qb wants that.

but when u win the sb w the last ranked run game, its not something u can just go "oh well he couldn't do that again." he ALREADY did it...he COULD do it again if need be. we were 10-1 that season bc we had a run game, not bc eli "couldn't take over games in the 4th" or whatever it was u were trying to say. every team wants to run, only a few are capable of winning when u can't run the ball and eli is one of the rare few who can...

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 12:56 PM
ugh. no offense to the OP and this isnt directed at him really, but do ppl understand that he made MAYBE TWO bad throws/decisions that entire philly game?like one bad throw vs Carolina for the entire game?
TB, he did have that 3 int first half but he played FLAWLESSLY the 2nd. Even vs Dallas, he missed MAYBE two throws? he's playing at such a high level that I hope he's extremely confident in himself. he doesnt strike me as the kinda guy who'd be OVER confident, he's very stoic and good at not disclosing his emotions....
romo just threw 5 ints, but he also threw his teammates under the bus in some of his post game remarks. he blamed the ints on how he had to try and do too much bc of the lack of help he was apparently not getting...thats overconfident, when u cant even admit a terrible performance was your fault...eli's never done anything but accept the blame even when its not always his...
To be honest I like the Eli from 2008 far more than how Eli has played so far this season, in 2008 Eli didn't try to be a chuck-it and pray hero on every passing attempt. He managed the game better. I'm not seeing much of it lately, it's down-field chuck it after another now.

giantsfan420
10-02-2012, 12:56 PM
that is 1000% eli's game as well imo, pure gun slinger with deadly accuracy and arm strength with tremendous understanding of the defensive concepts he's facing.

of course teams want to win the most effective way possible, rarely works out like that which is why having a qb like eli is so paramount to our success

giantsfan420
10-02-2012, 12:57 PM
WOW that is a HORRIBLE assessment and I will just duck out here...

GameTime
10-02-2012, 12:58 PM
Some of the throws he's chucking it out there, I can only shake my head in utter disgust.

Apparently crazy Gilbride still thinks Eli is a gun-slinger when he isn't. Eli is at his best when he is managing the game with a nice touch of run game support.

The more Eli throws, the chances of losing the game goes up, it's true.
Eli is a gunslinger and has one of the best deep throws in the game. And is very successful at it. Should they reign it in at times...??? Yes they should.
But he is not a dink and dunk QB nor should he be. A run game helps ANY QB. The Giants could use that.

burier
10-02-2012, 12:58 PM
Eli was gun slinging last year and what was the record? 9-7
In 2008 with a nice run support 10-1 (post Burress gunshot doesn't count)

And you are saying Eli's gun-slilnging 4th qt comebacks is more effective? No, last season was an exception, not the norm, if Eli has to play gun-slinger again, it won't be as successful because that's not Eli's game.

But you're wrong about it not being Eli's game. If it wasn't Eli's game we would have been 0-16 last season.

Of course you want to be able to run the ball. Of course you want to be able to play defense and of course you don't want to have to come back in the 4th all the time but say Eli isn't capable is wrong.

GameTime
10-02-2012, 01:00 PM
To be honest I like the Eli from 2008 far more than how Eli has played so far this season, in 2008 Eli didn't try to be a chuck-it and pray hero on every passing attempt. He managed the game better. I'm not seeing much of it lately, it's down-field chuck it after another now.
His best year was last year not 2008. He carried the O all last year with 32nd ranked runing game. Eli is not the problem with the Giants offense.

Flip Empty
10-02-2012, 01:00 PM
Have any stats to back that up?

Just had a quick glance through Eli's career stats, and the Giants are 11-18 in games where he's attempted at least 40 passes.

I suppose technically, the OP is correct.

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 01:01 PM
Super- i think ur 100% wrong about that prior assessment. of course u want the run game to work. every team/qb wants that.

but when u win the sb w the last ranked run game, its not something u can just go "oh well he couldn't do that again." he ALREADY did it...he COULD do it again if need be. we were 10-1 that season bc we had a run game, not bc eli "couldn't take over games in the 4th" or whatever it was u were trying to say. every team wants to run, only a few are capable of winning when u can't run the ball and eli is one of the rare few who can...
It won't happen again, and that statistic is a bit misleading, because Giants did run the ball better in the playoffs, and defense showed up.
It's not even debatable that QB does a lot better with real run game support.

Diamondring
10-02-2012, 01:01 PM
I want to say that some people have to realize that there are basic pass plays and set up plays. Now KG doesn't call that many set up plays like screens etc. This can help Eli gain more yards passing and even help the run. Some short passes are like run plays. I also say Eli holds his own as well with 300 yard passing making what you say OP wrong wrong wrong.

Eli made one mistake and that was throwing that int in the endzone. As for the pass to Barden, well Barden is a possesive type receiver and should know how to go under the ball to jump for it to use his height. Yet he tried to even with the ball coming down and fall into his hands but the defender was right with him. Barden made a mistake. KG should call more set up plays to mix with his basic ones and try to break records with this feakish offense.

joemorrisforprez
10-02-2012, 01:03 PM
Bingo! This is what I said Sunday night after the game. In this one instance, just before the 2nd and 9 play to Barden, yell in Eli's helmet that you are going to run the ball, no audible, no reading the defense, line up, run it up the gut nothing else.

Exactly.....about the only pass play I'd consider would involve play-action....fake handoff to Bradshaw.....Bennett lined up, initially as a blocker, but fade off to take a quick pass, rumble 5 or 6 yards.....if Bennet's not open, throw the ball away.

TheEnigma
10-02-2012, 01:04 PM
To be honest I like the Eli from 2008 far more than how Eli has played so far this season, in 2008 Eli didn't try to be a chuck-it and pray hero on every passing attempt. He managed the game better. I'm not seeing much of it lately, it's down-field chuck it after another now.

2008 Eli also had one of the best Olines of all time (yeah, they were that good) blocking in front of him and creating tunnels for the running game. In that situation, he rarely ever had to be the hero like he has had to be in the present day. He was essentially Alex Smith just not making mistakes.

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 01:04 PM
But you're wrong about it not being Eli's game. If it wasn't Eli's game we would have been 0-16 last season.

Of course you want to be able to run the ball. Of course you want to be able to play defense and of course you don't want to have to come back in the 4th all the time but say Eli isn't capable is wrong.
If Eli was true gun-slinger, then it would be 15-1 like Rodgers did with no defense. Eli is not a true gun-slinger.

YATittle1962
10-02-2012, 01:05 PM
until Coughlin comes to his senses and loses his loyalty to Bradshaw and goes with the better back Eli will unfortunately be throwing a ton down field because no defense will bite on any play action whatsoever

I have definitely noticed him putting it up on a prayer a bit more this season

joemorrisforprez
10-02-2012, 01:06 PM
It won't happen again, and that statistic is a bit misleading, because Giants did run the ball better in the playoffs, and defense showed up. It's not even debatable that QB does a lot better with real run game support.

Exactly....the Giants were 9-7 and made the playoff by the slimmest of margins.

In the playoffs, everything clicked.....if the running game didn't come on line, the Giants would have been one and done.

repeatchamps
10-02-2012, 01:06 PM
Exactly.....about the only pass play I'd consider would involve play-action....fake handoff to Bradshaw.....Bennett lined up, initially as a blocker, but fade off to take a quick pass, rumble 5 or 6 yards.....if Bennet's not open, throw the ball away.

Agree 100%.

Diamondring
10-02-2012, 01:08 PM
If Eli was true gun-slinger, then it would be 15-1 like Rodgers did with no defense. Eli is not a true gun-slinger.Right but Eli is a pure pocket passer wich is different from Rodgers.

GameTime
10-02-2012, 01:08 PM
If Eli was true gun-slinger, then it would be 15-1 like Rodgers did with no defense. Eli is not a true gun-slinger.
dont know why you equate a gunslinger with a 15-1 record but anyway...
The Giants O is a big play offense. Thats the way its designed and drawn up. Its a risky option offense but it has paid off so far.

burier
10-02-2012, 01:09 PM
2008 Eli also had one of the best Olines of all time (yeah, they were that good).

lol yeah, no they weren't.

But what's a tuesday without a little hyperbole?

TheEnigma
10-02-2012, 01:12 PM
lol yeah, no they weren't.

But what's a tuesday without a little hyperbole?

Name some that were better. I'd say there would be far and few and comparing the statistics to old school teams isn't exactly fair considering everyone and their grandma ran the ball down the D's throat.

Diamondring
10-02-2012, 01:17 PM
I come to some thinking though. If that running game can get better, it can help a lot. Yet here is the problem. Sometimes that running game has to go to the outside and not the inside all of the time. It can take a lot of work for the O-line. One more thing, the receivers need to be able to help. If a guy is 6 ft 6, and taller than most dbs, he should be a possesion type threat.

Drez
10-02-2012, 01:24 PM
It won't happen again, and that statistic is a bit misleading, because Giants did run the ball better in the playoffs, and defense showed up.
It's not even debatable that QB does a lot better with real run game support.
Yes, QBs play better with a run game because the defense can't just key in on the pass. However, you are completely wrong in your assessment that Eli is best as a game manager.

Drez
10-02-2012, 01:26 PM
Name some that were better. I'd say there would be far and few and comparing the statistics to old school teams isn't exactly fair considering everyone and their grandma ran the ball down the D's throat.
The OL in '08 was beastly, even if you are being a little hyperbolic calling them one of the best ever. The holes Jacobs and Ward had you could drive a Mack truck through.

BeatYale
10-02-2012, 01:26 PM
It won't happen again, and that statistic is a bit misleading, because Giants did run the ball better in the playoffs, and defense showed up.
It's not even debatable that QB does a lot better with real run game support.

Well we averaged 3.5 yards per carry through 16 regular season games, and 4.2 per carry in the 4 playoff games which is a very small sample size. We had a couple big run plays, like against Atlanta for example, that padded that average. The running game was still lacking in consistency IMO.

During our first Super Bowl run there was a significant decline in our running production in the post season.

I agree that a balanced attack is better, but you have to take what the defense gives you. The Panthers, for example, didn't want to give up big plays down field and in turn they got burnt by our run game and short to medium routes. The Eagles were shutting down the run, so we were forced to pass more. When the opposing defense is shutting down the run it really just comes down to guys winning their 1 on 1 match ups vs the CB's. Hixon did ok I thought, Ramses not so much, but he's inexperienced so I give him some slack.

Drez
10-02-2012, 01:27 PM
If Eli was true gun-slinger, then it would be 15-1 like Rodgers did with no defense. Eli is not a true gun-slinger.
Of all your dumb posts in this thread, this is the dumbest.

Kruunch
10-02-2012, 01:29 PM
Some of the throws he's chucking it out there, I can only shake my head in utter disgust.

Apparently crazy Gilbride still thinks Eli is a gun-slinger when he isn't. Eli is at his best when he is managing the game with a nice touch of run game support.

The more Eli throws, the chances of losing the game goes up, it's true.

-1

Totally disagree.

GiantRoc
10-02-2012, 01:51 PM
Eli Manning is not over confident. His personality, (and his family) would not allow that to happen. Eli Manning is not a gun slinger. Eli Manning is simply one or the best quarterbacks in the NFL. He reads the defense, and makes adjustments. He tries to call the best play for a given cituation. Sometimes he just makes the WRONG CALL. It happens. Defenses fool him, or he misreads the defense. It happens. I think what Eli did Sunday night was see something the defense was showing and it told him to throw. It was the WRONG CALL. It happens. If it didn't, Eli and every other great quarterback in the history of the game would never lose. I would still take Eli over any other guy in the league for this team.

gumby74
10-02-2012, 01:52 PM
Some of the throws he's chucking it out there, I can only shake my head in utter disgust.

Apparently crazy Gilbride still thinks Eli is a gun-slinger when he isn't. Eli is at his best when he is managing the game with a nice touch of run game support.

The more Eli throws, the chances of losing the game goes up, it's true.

I think that holds true for any QB. If a QB is throwing 50 times a game, that's becaue nothing else is working or they're way behind.

RoanokeFan
10-02-2012, 01:53 PM
Some of the throws he's chucking it out there, I can only shake my head in utter disgust.

Apparently crazy Gilbride still thinks Eli is a gun-slinger when he isn't. Eli is at his best when he is managing the game with a nice touch of run game support.

The more Eli throws, the chances of losing the game goes up, it's true.

How many bad throws did you witness against the Eagles? As for the run game, you have to have one to use one.

yoeddy
10-02-2012, 01:57 PM
I prefer Eli's gunslinging over 3.0ypc rushing any day of the week...

yoeddy
10-02-2012, 01:58 PM
If Eli was true gun-slinger, then it would be 15-1 like Rodgers did with no defense. Eli is not a true gun-slinger.

I guess Brett Favre wasn't a gunslinger either...

gumby74
10-02-2012, 01:59 PM
How many bad throws did you witness against the Eagles? As for the run game, you have to have one to use one.

He played well, but technically (since people are saying he only had like 2 bad throws) he had a decent amount of bad decisions. I've grown accustomed to Eli being Eli, so i didn't notice it until my cousin from Philly (who was over watching the game with us) pointed out multiple times - "Eli's really good, but man how does he get away with decisions like that. It happens all the time." It just happened that some passes were complete, but poor decisions none the less.

burier
10-02-2012, 02:04 PM
If Eli was true gun-slinger, then it would be 15-1 like Rodgers did with no defense. Eli is not a true gun-slinger.

What the hell does win % have to with an individual's style of play? And who told you Rogers had no defense? Is this troll tuesday?

burier
10-02-2012, 02:06 PM
He played well, but technically (since people are saying he only had like 2 bad throws) he had a decent amount of bad decisions. I've grown accustomed to Eli being Eli, so i didn't notice it until my cousin from Philly (who was over watching the game with us) pointed out multiple times - "Eli's really good, but man how does he get away with decisions like that. It happens all the time." It just happened that some passes were complete, but poor decisions none the less.

your cousin has some nerve trying to call an NFL quarterback out for COMPLETING a pass.

Eli completes passes that other quarterbacks wouldn't attempt and that speaks to his greatness.

zeph1
10-02-2012, 02:06 PM
The best part of this is the throw to barden is the right read.

gumby74
10-02-2012, 02:11 PM
your cousin has some nerve trying to call an NFL quarterback out for COMPLETING a pass.

Eli completes passes that other quarterbacks wouldn't attempt and that speaks to his greatness.

He called it for what it was. It was a poor decision. Hixon had a couple really great grabs. I realize you are the way you are about Eli, but a poor decision that happened to work out is not "great".

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 02:12 PM
Well we averaged 3.5 yards per carry through 16 regular season games, and 4.2 per carry in the 4 playoff games which is a very small sample size. We had a couple big run plays, like against Atlanta for example, that padded that average. The running game was still lacking in consistency IMO.

During our first Super Bowl run there was a significant decline in our running production in the post season.

I agree that a balanced attack is better, but you have to take what the defense gives you. The Panthers, for example, didn't want to give up big plays down field and in turn they got burnt by our run game and short to medium routes. The Eagles were shutting down the run, so we were forced to pass more. When the opposing defense is shutting down the run it really just comes down to guys winning their 1 on 1 match ups vs the CB's. Hixon did ok I thought, Ramses not so much, but he's inexperienced so I give him some slack.
Yes, let's take Eagles game for example, the defense played the run, so GUN SLINGING sexy Eli should light up the scoreboard no? Oh look, how many points the offense got in first half, wow! A whole 3 points!!

Folks, we all love Eli like a step-son and we bleed blue, but Eli is not a gun-slinger. Eli is a good QB, no doubt about it, but his style and tendencies do not equate to being a gun-slinger.

First thing that goes against Eli being a gun-slinger is that he starts off very slow in the first half, often not doing much or throwing INTs left and right to put the team in a nice hole. Have you seen Rodgers doing his gun-slinger thing where his scores 3 TDs in a blink of an eye before the opposing defense even realizes what just happened in the first half? THAT is a gun-slinger. Brees is a gun slinger too. Peyton in his prime years, yes. Eli? No.

Eli is good enough passer to have some nice 4th qt comebacks, but that's not the same as him being a gun-slinger.

Let's review as to why Eli is not a gun-slinger QB:

1. Starts the game very slow.
2. Doesn't score many points in first half most of the time.
3. Not having run support hurts his game more so than being irrelevant, like Brees and Rodgers are.
4. Look at Peyton
5. The more Eli passes, the worse he is and loses games.

Dwinsballgames
10-02-2012, 02:13 PM
The best part of this is the throw to barden is the right read.

Yes, Eli even said as much, he just didn't make the best throw considering the leverage that the DB had. If he made that throw to Barden's back shoulder, it would have been an easy completion and barden could have just steped out of bounds.

burier
10-02-2012, 02:14 PM
He called it for what it was. It was a poor decision. Hixon had a couple really great grabs. I realize you are the way you are about Eli, but a poor decision that happened to work out is not "great".

So how many times does a poor decision have to work out over how many years before the decision stops being poor?

I have no problem with fans being armchair quarterbacks but lets not get carried away. Eli makes throws that he believes he can complete.

gumby74
10-02-2012, 02:16 PM
So how many times does a poor decision have to work out over how many years before the decision stops being poor?

I have no problem with fans being armchair quarterbacks but lets not get carried away. Eli makes throws that he believes he can complete.

Are you saying that most of Eli's poor decisions have worked out? Seriously? If a QB throws a ball, it's pretty much assumed he thinks he can complete it.

ryan12
10-02-2012, 02:19 PM
Some of the throws he's chucking it out there, I can only shake my head in utter disgust.

Apparently crazy Gilbride still thinks Eli is a gun-slinger when he isn't. Eli is at his best when he is managing the game with a nice touch of run game support.

The more Eli throws, the chances of losing the game goes up, it's true.

shut up

burier
10-02-2012, 02:21 PM
Are you saying that most of Eli's poor decisions have worked out? Seriously? If a QB throws a ball, it's pretty much assumed he thinks he can complete it.

I'm saying these plays you're referring to as "poor decisions" were infact good decisions as evidenced by the fact that the ball was completed, a touchdown was scored, the chains were moved, etc.

burier
10-02-2012, 02:22 PM
shut up

+1

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 02:26 PM
Super what is this whole "gunslinger" thing I mean really Eli has proven that he is very cable of throwing down field with great accuracy just look at his stats throwing beyond 20 yards they are amazing....I also think that you are underestimating Eli's ability to make his wr's better then they are, he is missing Hakeem Nicks and Barden and Hixon have both got over 100 yards receiving and that is Eli's ability to throw with accuracy down the field. You also said Eli isn't a gunslinger cause he didn't go 15-1 what does that even mean???It's a team game isn't it??? The reason why Rodgers was so deadly was because he can run very well (so it is like they have an effective running game)when he has to so he can prolong plays even longer leaving wide open wr's down the field...Eli can't run like Rodgers but he can definitely throw the ball just as good as him....look at the playoffs Eli out played Rodgers so I don't get you whole notion that Eli is a better as a game manager?? If we can't run the ball then we need a qb that can throw the ball down the field and has confidence but it doesn't mean he is over confident.....I'm sure he wouldn't be throwing the ball as much if he had a running game but for right now Eli has proven he is a great "gunslinger" whatever that means.....

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 02:27 PM
I'm saying these plays you're referring to as "poor decisions" were infact good decisions as evidenced by the fact that the ball was completed, a touchdown was scored, the chains were moved, etc. I guess Eli is the only top qb that makes "poor decisions".

gumby74
10-02-2012, 02:30 PM
I'm saying these plays you're referring to as "poor decisions" were infact good decisions as evidenced by the fact that the ball was completed, a touchdown was scored, the chains were moved, etc.

Ah herein likes the crux of not just this debate, but back in the Tampa game, was going deep on 3rd and short a good decision or a bad one. Was going deep last game to Barden a good decision or a bad one? Poor decisions are poor decisions - regardless of outcome. In one scenario we had a decision that cost us the game (Barden). But in the other scenario we have a decision that helped win us the game (Cruz). You can't say one was good and the other was bad based on the outcome.

giantsfan420
10-02-2012, 02:35 PM
lmfao gumby. cruz was wide open vs TB. u try and recreate reality to fit whatever it is u believe to be true so u will always be biased.

and super, i have yet to see someone be so categorically wrong in his descriptions and reasons for why he holds a certain opinion. i dont think u've made more than 1 or 2 valid, logical ACCURATE points. this thread is a waste

giantsfan420
10-02-2012, 02:36 PM
this thread is like watching a duck try to **** a volleyball

burier
10-02-2012, 02:49 PM
Ah herein likes the crux of not just this debate, but back in the Tampa game, was going deep on 3rd and short a good decision or a bad one. Was going deep last game to Barden a good decision or a bad one? Poor decisions are poor decisions - regardless of outcome. In one scenario we had a decision that cost us the game (Barden). But in the other scenario we have a decision that helped win us the game (Cruz). You can't say one was good and the other was bad based on the outcome.

I disagree with the premise. If Eli drops a perfect pass to Barden and Barden walks in the endzone I highly doubt anyone would have the stones to sit up here and say Eli made a bad decision.

Hell if Ihe gets the PI in our favor on the play I doubt anyone would have the stone to call the throw a bad decision. So to me the question is: "How far do we go with the monday morning quarterbacking."

Was the throw to Tyree a bad decision?

Was the throw to Manningham a bad decision?

I'd say maybe for some quarterbacks but obviously not for Eli.

Roosevelt
10-02-2012, 02:56 PM
Some of the throws he's chucking it out there, I can only shake my head in utter disgust.

Apparently crazy Gilbride still thinks Eli is a gun-slinger when he isn't. Eli is at his best when he is managing the game with a nice touch of run game support.

The more Eli throws, the chances of losing the game goes up, it's true.


It sounds pretty silly to be complaining about these two guys who have helped us win a couple Championships recently. When you take your chances on offense sometimes it's going to come back you. It worked against Tampa but didn't not against the Eagles. Live and learn.

Roosevelt
10-02-2012, 02:59 PM
Eli Manning is not over confident. His personality, (and his family) would not allow that to happen. Eli Manning is not a gun slinger. Eli Manning is simply one or the best quarterbacks in the NFL. He reads the defense, and makes adjustments. He tries to call the best play for a given cituation. Sometimes he just makes the WRONG CALL. It happens. Defenses fool him, or he misreads the defense. It happens. I think what Eli did Sunday night was see something the defense was showing and it told him to throw. It was the WRONG CALL. It happens. If it didn't, Eli and every other great quarterback in the history of the game would never lose. I would still take Eli over any other guy in the league for this team.

I think this post sums it up pretty well. Except of course I'd rather have Tebow.

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 03:02 PM
lmfao gumby. cruz was wide open vs TB. u try and recreate reality to fit whatever it is u believe to be true so u will always be biased.

and super, i have yet to see someone be so categorically wrong in his descriptions and reasons for why he holds a certain opinion. i dont think u've made more than 1 or 2 valid, logical ACCURATE points. this thread is a waste
At least I have made my points with specifics, while all you've done is tell me that I'm wrong. How convenient of you.

TheShouldersOf
10-02-2012, 03:06 PM
I think they have it in their head 'Eli Will Win the Game' and whilst he has proven it time and time again, many other teams have watched film from past years and are better at defending it,

look at what is happening to the Packers, and the Saints, teams have been upgrading their talent to better defend that kind of game, with the Film on the Giants last year, people have built their talent and are defending against that kind of Game,

Teams know that with the Giants behind with a bit of time remaining, what they are going to do, and are better to defend it, they know Cruz now, and Nicks (When he is playing) how Bradshaw runs, and how the Giants continually stick to the 'Power Run' that doesn't work much all the time, they know how to better defend this team,

it's becoming predictable

Roosevelt
10-02-2012, 03:13 PM
I disagree with the premise. If Eli drops a perfect pass to Barden and Barden walks in the endzone I highly doubt anyone would have the stones to sit up here and say Eli made a bad decision.

Hell if Ihe gets the PI in our favor on the play I doubt anyone would have the stone to call the throw a bad decision. So to me the question is: "How far do we go with the monday morning quarterbacking."

Was the throw to Tyree a bad decision?

Was the throw to Manningham a bad decision?

I'd say maybe for some quarterbacks but obviously not for Eli.

Well, we obviously played to what we thought was our QB's strengths on Sunday night and it cost us. If you need 3 points to win and you play for 6 and fail, you can certainly question the thinking behind it. Same as in Tampa. It was imperative that we kept the chains moving at that point in the game, not that we score at that particular moment.

There is something to be said for making smart, sound football decisions. There is also something to be said for being gutsy. But when gutsy fails you look stupid. When you play the percentages and fail, there's not much you can say.

I'll toss the Tyree question back to you so you can clarify which part you thought was a bad decision. Throwing it up for grabs or trying to catch it with one hand on your helmet?

drewz
10-02-2012, 03:18 PM
I prefer Eli's gunslinging over 3.0ypc rushing any day of the week...

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 03:21 PM
Super what is this whole "gunslinger" thing I mean really Eli has proven that he is very cable of throwing down field with great accuracy just look at his stats throwing beyond 20 yards they are amazing....I also think that you are underestimating Eli's ability to make his wr's better then they are, he is missing Hakeem Nicks and Barden and Hixon have both got over 100 yards receiving and that is Eli's ability to throw with accuracy down the field. You also said Eli isn't a gunslinger cause he didn't go 15-1 what does that even mean???It's a team game isn't it??? The reason why Rodgers was so deadly was because he can run very well (so it is like they have an effective running game)when he has to so he can prolong plays even longer leaving wide open wr's down the field...Eli can't run like Rodgers but he can definitely throw the ball just as good as him....look at the playoffs Eli out played Rodgers so I don't get you whole notion that Eli is a better as a game manager?? If we can't run the ball then we need a qb that can throw the ball down the field and has confidence but it doesn't mean he is over confident.....I'm sure he wouldn't be throwing the ball as much if he had a running game but for right now Eli has proven he is a great "gunslinger" whatever that means.....
It's a little hard to grasp this aspect about Eli because people tend to only notice the most visible stuff such as the 4th quarter sexy Eli, but take this under consideration, how Eli plays in the 1st half is drastically different from 2nd half. Which is the true Eli then? Well it's the aw shucks laid back Eli of 1st half of course, that's his true identity as a QB, Eli is chucking it in the 4th quarter out of need and desperation to save the day, that's not his natural element. Yeah he's good at it, but still not his ideal natural element. The fact that he doesn't play like the sexy 4th quarter Eli all the time unquestionably proves that Eli at his core is not a gun-slinger QB.

yoeddy
10-02-2012, 03:21 PM
Let's review as to why Eli is not a gun-slinger QB:

1. Starts the game very slow.
2. Doesn't score many points in first half most of the time.
3. Not having run support hurts his game more so than being irrelevant, like Brees and Rodgers are.
4. Look at Peyton
5. The more Eli passes, the worse he is and loses games.

Am not sure where you got these criteria for being a gunslinger, but I will say that I don't agree with you:

1. Where does it say that a gunslinger has to start a game fast? Gunslinger is much more about attitude/mentality than anything else.
2. Again, where is this written as a criteria for being a gunslinger?
3. Eli's best statistical year was 2011, which also coincided with the Giants' weakest running game during Eli's career.
4. In each of their last three full seasons, Eli has a higher TD%, yards/attempt, and yards/completion than Peyton.
5. I would guess this is true of any QB, because throwing more means that he is playing catch-up. And in that context, Eli has more 4th quarter comebacks than anyone in the league....

Roosevelt
10-02-2012, 03:22 PM
At least I have made my points with specifics, while all you've done is tell me that I'm wrong. How convenient of you.

That's because Eli can do no wrong in 420's eyes.

burier
10-02-2012, 03:26 PM
Well, we obviously played to what we thought was our QB's strengths on Sunday night and it cost us. If you need 3 points to win and you play for 6 and fail, you can certainly question the thinking behind it. Same as in Tampa. It was imperative that we kept the chains moving at that point in the game, not that we score at that particular moment.

There is something to be said for making smart, sound football decisions. There is also something to be said for being gutsy. But when gutsy fails you look stupid. When you play the percentages and fail, there's not much you can say.

I'll toss the Tyree question back to you so you can clarify which part you thought was a bad decision. Throwing it up for grabs or trying to catch it with one hand on your helmet?

Well if we're talking text book once Eli escaped he should done 1 of 3 things: Tuck and run, Look to complete the ball in the flats or down the field OUTSIDE of the hashes or throw the ball into the stands. What you don't do is throw the ball over the middle of the field at that point. Its bound to be picked.

As far as the catch. I always felt that Tyree may have been able to get two hands on the ball and if he did then Eli doesn't have to share the glory as much.

But Rodney Harrison was all over him. I don't feel comfrotable saying tyree "decided" to catch the ball against his helmet.

So if anything was a bad decision it was the throw. But Eli has shown an ability to bend logic and challenge preceptions on what should happen in a given situation.

Upon further review you see that the throw to Tyree was imaculate. Tyree isn't very big so Eli can't deliver this ball too high. If it sails over Tyree's head it's picked for sure. But he can't throw it low because there are defenders underneath. He had one spot to put the ball and he did. Just high enough to get over the defenders and low enough for the small reciever to be able to go up and snag it. To me that's pure skill...I think the escape might have been a bit lucky but I can't find evidence of luck on the throw.

BuffyBlueII
10-02-2012, 03:35 PM
It's a little hard to grasp this aspect about Eli because people tend to only notice the most visible stuff such as the 4th quarter sexy Eli, but take this under consideration, how Eli plays in the 1st half is drastically different from 2nd half. Which is the true Eli then? Well it's the aw shucks laid back Eli of 1st half of course, that's his true identity as a QB, Eli is chucking it in the 4th quarter out of need and desperation to save the day, that's not his natural element. Yeah he's good at it, but still not his ideal natural element. The fact that he doesn't play like the sexy 4th quarter Eli all the time unquestionably proves that Eli at his core is not a gun-slinger QB.

The “true identity” of Eli Manning as QB is the one that he has won us two SuperBowl Championships with 2 completely different sets of recievers.

Eli Manning has to throw so much because of our miserable offensive line.

BuffyBlueII
10-02-2012, 03:36 PM
Eli Manning has never lost an NFL game when he has thrown 50 or more times. On the other hand, Drew Brees has never won an NFL game when he has thrown the ball 50 or more times.

Gee, can we guess which team leads the league in dropped passses?

"Which QB has had the most drops by his receivers ? --asked by @Words4Friends (http://twitter.com/Words4Friends)

The leader in quarterback drops since the start of last season is defending Super Bowl-champ Eli Manning (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/5526/eli-manning) with 24. That’s two more than Matt Ryan (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/11237/matt-ryan)."

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/tag/_/name/eli-manning


I (http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/tag/_/name/eli-manning) bELIeve.

gumby74
10-02-2012, 03:42 PM
I disagree with the premise. If Eli drops a perfect pass to Barden and Barden walks in the endzone I highly doubt anyone would have the stones to sit up here and say Eli made a bad decision.

Hell if Ihe gets the PI in our favor on the play I doubt anyone would have the stone to call the throw a bad decision. So to me the question is: "How far do we go with the monday morning quarterbacking."

Was the throw to Tyree a bad decision?

Was the throw to Manningham a bad decision?

I'd say maybe for some quarterbacks but obviously not for Eli.

I beg to differ. Roosevelt made a thread just last week questioning if the throw to Cruz was a good decision. And in there I said it wasn't - evne though it worked.

Martyr
10-02-2012, 03:43 PM
As long as Eli is playing I always feel the Giants can comeback. He will go down as the best Giants Qb ever.

BuffyBlueII
10-02-2012, 03:43 PM
Well, we obviously played to what we thought was our QB's strengths on Sunday night and it cost us. If you need 3 points to win and you play for 6 and fail, you can certainly question the thinking behind it. Same as in Tampa. It was imperative that we kept the chains moving at that point in the game, not that we score at that particular moment.

There is something to be said for making smart, sound football decisions. There is also something to be said for being gutsy. But when gutsy fails you look stupid. When you play the percentages and fail, there's not much you can say.

I'll toss the Tyree question back to you so you can clarify which part you thought was a bad decision. Throwing it up for grabs or trying to catch it with one hand on your helmet?

I kind of think the call on Sunday Night to pass was more out of neccesity due to our horrible running game than it was playing to our QBs strengths.

Diamondring
10-02-2012, 03:45 PM
That's because Eli can do no wrong in 420's eyes.But the SuperBYGiants thinks that Eli can't do anything right.

burier
10-02-2012, 03:47 PM
I beg to differ. Roosevelt made a thread just last week questioning if the throw to Cruz was a good decision. And in there I said it wasn't - evne though it worked.

Ok I didn't see that thread so I digress: If you're an Eli hater you'll find a way to criticize him win lose or draw.

Diamondring
10-02-2012, 03:48 PM
At least I have made my points with specifics, while all you've done is tell me that I'm wrong. How convenient of you.No you didn't. Your points are just your imagination.

gumby74
10-02-2012, 03:48 PM
Well if we're talking text book once Eli escaped he should done 1 of 3 things: Tuck and run, Look to complete the ball in the flats or down the field OUTSIDE of the hashes or throw the ball into the stands. What you don't do is throw the ball over the middle of the field at that point. Its bound to be picked.

As far as the catch. I always felt that Tyree may have been able to get two hands on the ball and if he did then Eli doesn't have to share the glory as much.

But Rodney Harrison was all over him. I don't feel comfrotable saying tyree "decided" to catch the ball against his helmet.

So if anything was a bad decision it was the throw. But Eli has shown an ability to bend logic and challenge preceptions on what should happen in a given situation.


Upon further review you see that the throw to Tyree was imaculate. Tyree isn't very big so Eli can't deliver this ball too high. If it sails over Tyree's head it's picked for sure. But he can't throw it low because there are defenders underneath. He had one spot to put the ball and he did. Just high enough to get over the defenders and low enough for the small reciever to be able to go up and snag it. To me that's pure skill...I think the escape might have been a bit lucky but I can't find evidence of luck on the throw.

Different strokes for different folks but I don't think I've ever seen anyone so in love with one player, save for yourself and a handful of other folks on here. I'm not questioning your fanhood, but it makes me wonder if there's a possibility that you and others put Eli above the team.

gumby74
10-02-2012, 03:49 PM
Ok I didn't see that thread so I digress: If you're an Eli hater you'll find a way to criticize him win lose or draw.

I guess that makes me a bigot because i criticize everything. I believe in equal opportunity.

GameTime
10-02-2012, 03:51 PM
it has now become another Eli is this or that pissing contest. Took 8 pages though....impressive....

burier
10-02-2012, 03:52 PM
Different strokes for different folks but I don't think I've ever seen anyone so in love with one player, save for yourself and a handful of other folks on here. I'm not questioning your fanhood, but it makes me wonder if there's a possibility that you and others put Eli above the team.

I was fan long before I ever knew there was a Peyton Manning let along an Eli but Eli is my kind of player. I like clutch players. Players who elevate themselves and others and become something greater under the highest pressure. I saw that in Eli a long time ago....this thing that's been going on the past few years where he's putting up the huge numbers is gravy to me.

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 04:15 PM
It's a little hard to grasp this aspect about Eli because people tend to only notice the most visible stuff such as the 4th quarter sexy Eli, but take this under consideration, how Eli plays in the 1st half is drastically different from 2nd half. Which is the true Eli then? Well it's the aw shucks laid back Eli of 1st half of course, that's his true identity as a QB, Eli is chucking it in the 4th quarter out of need and desperation to save the day, that's not his natural element. Yeah he's good at it, but still not his ideal natural element. The fact that he doesn't play like the sexy 4th quarter Eli all the time unquestionably proves that Eli at his core is not a gun-slinger QB.dUDE Eli said it himself that as the game progresses he figures out what the defense is doing so of course his numbers are going to go up in the second half if you watch his brother the same thing basically happens 1st half they score once or twice second Peyton buries them he just trying to figure out the defense it's not because he is aw shucks Jesus I thought Eli has done enough for people to stop saying that crap... the guy is a leader he doesn't have to be Tom Brady in your face your doing this and that wrong... he treats his teammates with the respect he wasn't given when he started. It just because he doesn't score a lot of points the 1st doesn't mean he is not a "gun-slinger" to the core this is just laughable and embarrassing coming from a Giants fan....

Roosevelt
10-02-2012, 04:16 PM
Well if we're talking text book once Eli escaped he should done 1 of 3 things: Tuck and run, Look to complete the ball in the flats or down the field OUTSIDE of the hashes or throw the ball into the stands. What you don't do is throw the ball over the middle of the field at that point. Its bound to be picked.

As far as the catch. I always felt that Tyree may have been able to get two hands on the ball and if he did then Eli doesn't have to share the glory as much.

But Rodney Harrison was all over him. I don't feel comfrotable saying tyree "decided" to catch the ball against his helmet.

So if anything was a bad decision it was the throw. But Eli has shown an ability to bend logic and challenge preceptions on what should happen in a given situation.

Upon further review you see that the throw to Tyree was imaculate. Tyree isn't very big so Eli can't deliver this ball too high. If it sails over Tyree's head it's picked for sure. But he can't throw it low because there are defenders underneath. He had one spot to put the ball and he did. Just high enough to get over the defenders and low enough for the small reciever to be able to go up and snag it. To me that's pure skill...I think the escape might have been a bit lucky but I can't find evidence of luck on the throw.

Huh? If that play wasn't the epitome of luck, I don't know what is. That entire play was amazing.

burier
10-02-2012, 04:20 PM
Huh? If that play wasn't the epitome of luck, I don't know what is. That entire play was amazing.

I was pretty detailed in my response not sure why you're confused. To call what Eli and Tyree and everyone else did on that play luck really doesn't do them justice. There may have been some funny bounces but there was a bunch of skill involved.

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 04:23 PM
Huh? If that play wasn't the epitome of luck, I don't know what is. That entire play was amazing.Eli said he saw a white jersey and threw it to him cause he was open....he threw the ball where it needed to go and Tyree made the catch I don't think it was luck Tyree just made a great catch are we going to say this everytime a receiver makes an amazing catch that it was luck????

Diamondring
10-02-2012, 04:24 PM
dUDE Eli said it himself that as the game progresses he figures out what the defense is doing so of course his numbers are going to go up in the second half if you watch his brother the same thing basically happens 1st half they score once or twice second Peyton buries them he just trying to figure out the defense it's not because he is aw shucks Jesus I thought Eli has done enough for people to stop saying that crap... the guy is a leader he doesn't have to be Tom Brady in your face your doing this and that wrong... he treats his teammates with the respect he wasn't given when he started. It just because he doesn't score a lot of points the 1st doesn't mean he is not a "gun-slinger" to the core this is just laughable and embarrassing coming from a Giants fan....Especially when Romo threw 5 ints with two going for tds.

Roosevelt
10-02-2012, 04:30 PM
But the SuperBYGiants thinks that Eli can't do anything right.

Well that's down right ridiculous.

No matter what anyone thinks we shouldn't take the SB Championships lightly.

Roosevelt
10-02-2012, 04:54 PM
Eli said he saw a white jersey and threw it to him cause he was open....he threw the ball where it needed to go and Tyree made the catch I don't think it was luck Tyree just made a great catch are we going to say this everytime a receiver makes an amazing catch that it was luck????

Obviously every play takes skill, but when you break that play down we were certainly lucky given all the circumstances.

jakegibbs
10-02-2012, 05:00 PM
Some of the throws he's chucking it out there, I can only shake my head in utter disgust.

Apparently crazy Gilbride still thinks Eli is a gun-slinger when he isn't. Eli is at his best when he is managing the game with a nice touch of run game support.

The more Eli throws, the chances of losing the game goes up, it's true.

THAT'S WHY HE HAS 2 SB MVPs & 2 SB TROPHIES AT THE OWNERS HOUSE. Don't try and change him from what he is or he could end up being another close but no cigar QB. I love it when they try & go for the kill instead of trying to go conservative.

GMENAGAIN
10-02-2012, 05:05 PM
Can't believe that this ridiculous thread is 9 pages long . . . .

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 05:09 PM
THAT'S WHY HE HAS 2 SB MVPs & 2 SB TROPHIES AT THE OWNERS HOUSE. Don't try and change him from what he is or he could end up being another close but no cigar QB. I love it when they try & go for the kill instead of trying to go conservative.me too.....except for when it doesn't work like Sunday lol....

nycisgreat
10-02-2012, 05:19 PM
Some of the throws he's chucking it out there, I can only shake my head in utter disgust.

Apparently crazy Gilbride still thinks Eli is a gun-slinger when he isn't. Eli is at his best when he is managing the game with a nice touch of run game support.

The more Eli throws, the chances of losing the game goes up, it's true.

Nope, I think he goes about his handling his job the way he should. The guy is veteran. I think Eli shows a lot of Maturity and poise majority of games. I think that is definitely not a quality that you can teach.

Drez
10-02-2012, 05:22 PM
Can't believe that this ridiculous thread is 9 pages long . . . .
But, are you REALLY surprised?

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 05:36 PM
dUDE Eli said it himself that as the game progresses he figures out what the defense is doing so of course his numbers are going to go up in the second half if you watch his brother the same thing basically happens 1st half they score once or twice second Peyton buries them he just trying to figure out the defense it's not because he is aw shucks Jesus I thought Eli has done enough for people to stop saying that crap... the guy is a leader he doesn't have to be Tom Brady in your face your doing this and that wrong... he treats his teammates with the respect he wasn't given when he started. It just because he doesn't score a lot of points the 1st doesn't mean he is not a "gun-slinger" to the core this is just laughable and embarrassing coming from a Giants fan....
So why hasn't sexy gun-slinger Eli put up the numbers Brees, Brady, Peyton, and Rodgers put up? Last season was his best? How many TD passes did Eli throw? 29? That's far from being comparable to the real gun slingers. The fact that Eli rarely has blowout wins or scores many points attest to this.

My whole point is this, Eli while a good passing QB, is not a gun-slinger who can keep playing as such and expect to keep winning at the last second, it won't happen, it has already failed 2 times this season. But it's not Eli's fault, it's the coaches who keep trying to put too much on Eli's plate that will ultimately doom this season if they don't get some running game going. The Giants simply won't be successful by how they have played last regular season because Eli the 4th quarter gun-slinger is not his true self as a QB.

But blinded by the Super Bowl trophy, MOST people now think Eli the 4th quarter sexy gun slinger is the norm, and expect him to play like that all the time, which is utterly ridiculous and a wrong assessment of Eli.

Rudyy
10-02-2012, 05:38 PM
So why hasn't sexy gun-slinger Eli put up the numbers Brees, Brady, Peyton, and Rodgers put up? Last season was his best? How many TD passes did Eli throw? 29? That's far from being comparable to the real gun slingers. The fact that Eli rarely has blowout wins or scores many points attest to this.

My whole point is this, Eli while a good passing QB, is not a gun-slinger who can keep playing as such and expect to keep winning at the last second, it won't happen, it has already failed 2 times this season. But it's not Eli's fault, it's the coaches who keep trying to put too much on Eli's plate that will ultimately doom this season if they don't get some running game going. The Giants simply won't be successful by how they have played last regular season because Eli the 4th quarter gun-slinger is not his true self as a QB.

But blinded by the Super Bowl trophy, MOST people now think Eli the 4th quarter sexy gun slinger is the norm, and expect him to play like that all the time, which is utterly ridiculous and a wrong assessment of Eli.Since when do stats determine how great a quarterback is? Do you NEED to be a gunslinger to be a good quarterback?

Rudyy
10-02-2012, 05:40 PM
And not blowing out other teams has nothing to do with being a gunslinger..or even a good quarterback. If you want a gunslinger, that's fine. Eli wins games, and that matters the most in this league. Not throwing for 50 touchdowns.

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 05:43 PM
So why hasn't sexy gun-slinger Eli put up the numbers Brees, Brady, Peyton, and Rodgers put up? Last season was his best? How many TD passes did Eli throw? 29? That's far from being comparable to the real gun slingers. The fact that Eli rarely has blowout wins or scores many points attest to this.

My whole point is this, Eli while a good passing QB, is not a gun-slinger who can keep playing as such and expect to keep winning at the last second, it won't happen, it has already failed 2 times this season. But it's not Eli's fault, it's the coaches who keep trying to put too much on Eli's plate that will ultimately doom this season if they don't get some running game going. The Giants simply won't be successful by how they have played last regular season because Eli the 4th quarter gun-slinger is not his true self as a QB.

But blinded by the Super Bowl trophy, MOST people now think Eli the 4th quarter sexy gun slinger is the norm, and expect him to play like that all the time, which is utterly ridiculous and a wrong assessment of Eli.Man now you just sound stupid almost 5,000 last season consistently throws for over 4000 yards the TDs may not be there but can you say he's had a real endzone threat until Bennett??? Rodgers passes for a lot of TDs cause that is all the Packer do is throw the ball in the endzone down on the goaline, against Carolina Eli could've thrown 4 tds but they decided to run it in that's just the way Giants do thing I'm starting to think you are just hating now..... so your telling me Eli is the same as Alex Smith and what QB would you take over him?????

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 05:50 PM
So why hasn't sexy gun-slinger Eli put up the numbers Brees, Brady, Peyton, and Rodgers put up? Last season was his best? How many TD passes did Eli throw? 29? That's far from being comparable to the real gun slingers. The fact that Eli rarely has blowout wins or scores many points attest to this.

My whole point is this, Eli while a good passing QB, is not a gun-slinger who can keep playing as such and expect to keep winning at the last second, it won't happen, it has already failed 2 times this season. But it's not Eli's fault, it's the coaches who keep trying to put too much on Eli's plate that will ultimately doom this season if they don't get some running game going. The Giants simply won't be successful by how they have played last regular season because Eli the 4th quarter gun-slinger is not his true self as a QB.

But blinded by the Super Bowl trophy, MOST people now think Eli the 4th quarter sexy gun slinger is the norm, and expect him to play like that all the time, which is utterly ridiculous and a wrong assessment of Eli.Yeah blowing out crappy teams and throwing for 5 tds makes them great but yet the couldn't beat Eli?????

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 05:52 PM
Man now you just sound stupid almost 5,000 last season consistently throws for over 4000 yards the TDs may not be there but can you say he's had a real endzone threat until Bennett??? Rodgers passes for a lot of TDs cause that is all the Packer do is throw the ball in the endzone down on the goaline, against Carolina Eli could've thrown 4 tds but they decided to run it in that's just the way Giants do thing I'm starting to think you are just hating now..... so your telling me Eli is the same as Alex Smith and what QB would you take over him?????
Wait a minute, doesn't Eli have supposedly the best WR duo in Nicks and Cruz? And you say Bennett is the real endzone threat? THIS MUST BE A FREAKING JOKE OF AN EXCUSE.

I've lost all interest in replying to you.

Rudyy
10-02-2012, 05:54 PM
Wait a minute, doesn't Eli have supposedly the best WR duo in Nicks and Cruz? And you say Bennett is the real endzone threat? THIS MUST BE A FREAKING JOKE OF AN EXCUSE.

I've lost all interest in replying to you.Cruz is always triple covered, Nicks is going to attract defenders, so Bennett gets more opportunities in the redzone.

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 05:57 PM
Wait a minute, doesn't Eli have supposedly the best WR duo in Nicks and Cruz? And you say Bennett is the real endzone threat? THIS MUST BE A FREAKING JOKE OF AN EXCUSE.

I've lost all interest in replying to you.good cause for someone who said Eli isn't great cause he doesn't throw for 50 tds I have no respect for the fact is you have no comeback cause you know you dead wrong about this whole thing and what I meant is Bennett is a huge redzone target while Cruz and Nicks are smaller they are good for about 7 to 9 tds a season while megatron and the bigger wideouts have 12 to 15....

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 05:57 PM
Yeah blowing out crappy teams and throwing for 5 tds makes them great but yet the couldn't beat Eli?????
I'd like to see Eli blow out crappy teams once in a while too but seems like Whitehursts, Kitnas, Grossmans, and Derek Andersons outplay him.

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 05:58 PM
Cruz is always triple covered, Nicks is going to attract defenders, so Bennett gets more opportunities in the redzone.thank you rudy at least you have a brain the fact is he knows he's wrong and has made himself look very stupid

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 05:59 PM
Cruz is always triple covered, Nicks is going to attract defenders, so Bennett gets more opportunities in the redzone.
So how does other QBs score TDs with their WRs? Magic? Sorcery? Do tell.

yoeddy
10-02-2012, 06:00 PM
A gunslinger is a QB who believes he can make any throw, and is willing to risk making a throw even if it's a bad decision because he believes he can make the play. I believe Eli has this mentality and the physical skills to back it up. Just because it doesn't result in 30+ TDs in a season doesn't mean he doesn't have that mentality...

Rudyy
10-02-2012, 06:00 PM
I'd like to see Eli blow out crappy teams once in a while too but seems like Whitehursts, Kitnas, Grossmans, and Derek Andersons outplay him.That's not on Eli. Thats our defense playong like crap. Do you watch Giants games? Seriously, it's like you have no clue at all.

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 06:00 PM
I'd like to see Eli blow out crappy teams once in a while too but seems like Whitehursts, Kitnas, Grossmans, and Derek Andersons outplay him.Yeah cause it not a team game or anything right even when Eli did throw for 3 td in a game just like seattle last year the d didn't do a thing your who logic on this gun-slinger thing is just asinine..lol

yoeddy
10-02-2012, 06:00 PM
So how does other QBs score TDs with their WRs? Magic? Sorcery? Do tell.

Playing in divisions with bad pass defenses?

Rudyy
10-02-2012, 06:01 PM
So how does other QBs score TDs with their WRs? Magic? Sorcery? Do tell....It has to do with playcalling and or if that receiver is open..not whether you're a gunslinger or not..

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 06:05 PM
So how does other QBs score TDs with their WRs? Magic? Sorcery? Do tell. Like I said KG runs the ball on the 5 yard line so....what the hell are you talking about????

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 06:05 PM
good cause for someone who said Eli isn't great cause he doesn't throw for 50 tds I have no respect for the fact is you have no comeback cause you know you dead wrong about this whole thing and what I meant is Bennett is a huge redzone target while Cruz and Nicks are smaller they are good for about 7 to 9 tds a season while megatron and the bigger wideouts have 12 to 15....
Rodgers doesn't have Megatron, he has senior citizen Driver, and always hurt Jennings, yet he has no trouble getting TD passes.
Brady has who? washed up Branch? I don't even know what other WR he has, he has Gronk at TE Hernandez didn't even suit up and scored 52 points, isn't that nice?

Seriously, are you really blaming our WRs for lack of pass TDs now? COME ON.

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 06:07 PM
Like I said KG runs the ball on the 5 yard line so....what the hell are you talking about????
Are you basing it just on Carolina game? Are you a new fan? Gilbride calls pass plays like a maniac inside 20. What have you been watching man.

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 06:08 PM
Yeah cause it not a team game or anything right even when Eli did throw for 3 td in a game just like seattle last year the d didn't do a thing your who logic on this gun-slinger thing is just asinine..lol
Didn't Eli throw a pick returned for a TD that sealed it, and you are blaming the defense? Oh boy.

Rudyy
10-02-2012, 06:08 PM
Rodgers doesn't have Megatron, he has senior citizen Driver, and always hurt Jennings, yet he has no trouble getting TD passes.
Brady has who? washed up Branch? I don't even know what other WR he has, he has Gronk at TE Hernandez didn't even suit up and scored 52 points, isn't that nice?

Seriously, are you really blaming our WRs for lack of pass TDs now? COME ON.Do you watch football? Good Lord. Green Bay- Jordy Nelson, Brady-Welker AND Gronk. Nobody is blaming anyone, except you. Eli doesnt theow 50 TD's because he doesnt want to, and he doesnt have to. He's won 2 Super Bowls without throwing for 50 touchdowns like Brees and Brady. Brees threw 45 TD's last year, did that win him a Super Bowl? NO. Oh, and all those teams you mentioned have good offensive linea. That kinda helps.

Rudyy
10-02-2012, 06:09 PM
Didn't Eli throw a pick returned for a TD that sealed it, and you are blaming the defense? Oh boy. Didnt Eli lead the league in 4th quarter touchdowns? Oh boy.

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 06:13 PM
Rodgers doesn't have Megatron, he has senior citizen Driver, and always hurt Jennings, yet he has no trouble getting TD passes.
Brady has who? washed up Branch? I don't even know what other WR he has, he has Gronk at TE Hernandez didn't even suit up and scored 52 points, isn't that nice?

Seriously, are you really blaming our WRs for lack of pass TDs now? COME ON.how many freakin TD s did Gronk have last year huh???? like 20 something that is a legit redzone threat and for the last time do you even watch the Giants cause I really don't think you do they 1st of all don't get aggressive on the 5 yrd line then run until they get in and 2 when they do blow teams out TC is not a jerk and doesn't just keep throwing it in the endzone to pad players stats like Rodgers and Brees.. you must be a Packers fan or something cause wow.

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 06:13 PM
Do you watch football? Good Lord. Green Bay- Jordy Nelson, Brady-Welker AND Gronk. Nobody is blaming anyone, except you. Eli doesnt theow 50 TD's because he doesnt want to, and he doesnt have to. He's won 2 Super Bowls without throwing for 50 touchdowns like Brees and Brady. Brees threw 45 TD's last year, did that win him a Super Bowl? NO. Oh, and all those teams you mentioned have good offensive linea. That kinda helps.
That makes perfect sense now! Eli likes to keep the game close so the fans can get excited watching it! That is a beautiful analysis of your fantasy world! I'd like to live there someday sir!

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 06:14 PM
Playing in divisions with bad pass defenses?He doesn't understand that there is a lot of factors that go into this he just likes to hate on Eli obviously it's really annoying

Rudyy
10-02-2012, 06:16 PM
That makes perfect sense now! Eli likes to keep the game close so the fans can get excited watching it! That is a beautiful analysis of your fantasy world! I'd like to live there someday sir! I'm a girl, and I highly doubt Eli wakes up every morning thinking "Gee, I would sure like a close game!" Things happen sometimes that are out of the quarterbacks control. Maybe he can get a redzone td, maybe he can't, maybe he gets picked off. It happens, its the NFL.

Marvelousmik
10-02-2012, 06:16 PM
Apparently crazy Gilbride still thinks Eli is a gun-slinger when he isn't. .

even when eli makes mistakes GB gets blamed

cease
10-02-2012, 06:17 PM
you would be a fool 2 bet against eli,

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 06:17 PM
Are you basing it just on Carolina game? Are you a new fan? Gilbride calls pass plays like a maniac inside 20. What have you been watching man.no the question is are you a fan cause it doesn't seem like you watched a single Giants game in your whole entire life you a joke keep making yourself look like a donkey's butt..

fansince69
10-02-2012, 06:18 PM
I'm a girl, and I highly doubt Eli wakes up every morning thinking "Gee, I would sure like a close game!" Things happen sometimes that are out of the quarterbacks control. Maybe he can get a redzone td, maybe he can't, maybe he gets picked off. It happens, its the NFL.

Just ignore him

btw I didn't know you were female till this moment

Rudyy
10-02-2012, 06:18 PM
no the question is are you a fan cause it doesn't seem like you watched a single Giants game in your whole entire life you a joke keep making yourself look like a donkey's butt..Or any NFL game.

Rudyy
10-02-2012, 06:18 PM
Just ignore himGood idea.

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 06:19 PM
Didn't Eli throw a pick returned for a TD that sealed it, and you are blaming the defense? Oh boy.Oh but it's ok for you to go on a one 1 basis right..... you joke man I'm laughing my you know what off at you right no cause your not making any sense....

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 06:25 PM
Playing in divisions with bad pass defenses?
Fine, let's use a QB within our division, let's go take a look at Tony Romo's stat from 2011 and laugh about it shall we?

Tony Romo has 31 pass TDs....err...what...that can't be...wait 1 rushing TD for total of 32?! Romo has more TDs than Eli? How could this be?!?!?!?!

Eli is not a gun-slinger.

Reality check.

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 06:27 PM
lmao wow 2 more tds lol Romo must be a gun slinger cause he made it to 30 lmao your sad bro real sad lol

fansince69
10-02-2012, 06:31 PM
lmao wow 2 more tds lol Romo must be a gun slinger cause he made it to 30 lmao you sad bro real sad lol

why do you bother?

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 06:35 PM
why do you bother?cause I want him to know how stupid he sounds someone has to do it.....

fansince69
10-02-2012, 06:37 PM
cause I want him to know how stupid he sounds someone has to do it.....

good luck...but telling you from experience...won't work...read RF's sig that says it perfectly

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 06:38 PM
lmao wow 2 more tds lol Romo must be a gun slinger cause he made it to 30 lmao you sad bro real sad lol
What's truly sad is that you think Eli's best statistical season of 2011 is worthy of labeling him as a gun slinger yet he didn't throw for more TDs than the lowly sad Cowboy Romo.

Calm down people, Eli is not gun-slinger.

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 06:39 PM
good luck...but telling you from experience...won't work...read RF's sig that says it perfectlyok?????

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 06:43 PM
What's truly sad is that you think Eli's best statistical season of 2011 is worthy of labeling him as a gun slinger yet he didn't throw for more TDs than the lowly sad Cowboy Romo.

Calm down people, Eli is not gun-slinger.LMAO your funny keep thinking that way and when Eli throws for 35 to 40 TDs this season you will be making a thread eating crow and I can't wait and let's be honest you didn't use Romo as an example cause you thought he was a scrub you used him as an example cause you think he's a "gun-slinger" lol ahahahahah just wow man I have never laughed this hard in my life...oh yeah you never answered my question so you think Eli is meant to play like Alex Smith????

fansince69
10-02-2012, 06:47 PM
ok?????

RF's sig.....Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 06:49 PM
RF's sig.....Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!Oh yeah I have read that but I can handle it I really just want to know how a person can think this way but thanks anyway....

Drez
10-02-2012, 07:09 PM
Eli is not gun-slinger.
http://i.qkme.me/3obupn.jpg

fansince69
10-02-2012, 07:11 PM
http://i.qkme.me/3obupn.jpg


LMAO....cute movie

Rusty192
10-02-2012, 07:39 PM
btw I didn't know you were female till this momenthttp://howrudoing.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/glenn_quagmire_1920x1200.png?w=490&h=306

Rudyy
10-02-2012, 07:43 PM
Just ignore him

btw I didn't know you were female till this moment It's cool, haha.

Rudyy
10-02-2012, 07:55 PM
http://howrudoing.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/glenn_quagmire_1920x1200.png?w=490&h=306Nice...giggity.

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 08:25 PM
LMAO your funny keep thinking that way and when Eli throws for 35 to 40 TDs this season you will be making a thread eating crow and I can't wait and let's be honest you didn't use Romo as an example cause you thought he was a scrub you used him as an example cause you think he's a "gun-slinger" lol ahahahahah just wow man I have never laughed this hard in my life...oh yeah you never answered my question so you think Eli is meant to play like Alex Smith????
Will you be eating crow when Eli doesn't get 30 TD passes this season, I mean let's make this fair, I don't want to stick my neck out if you aren't.

Honestly, I didn't think Romo would have better numbers than Eli, so I didn't bother until someone said something about not the same for different division. I'm even more convinced that Eli is just forced into a gun-slinger in the 4th quarter.

I'm sure Eli has more liberty than Alex Smith, but I don't like to see Eli trying to play as a gun-slinger that you all think he is. Giants and Eli need some semblance of a running game, I assure you, that's the ideal formula.

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 08:40 PM
Will you be eating crow when Eli doesn't get 30 TD passes this season, I mean let's make this fair, I don't want to stick my neck out if you aren't.

Honestly, I didn't think Romo would have better numbers than Eli, so I didn't bother until someone said something about not the same for different division. I'm even more convinced that Eli is just forced into a gun-slinger in the 4th quarter.

I'm sure Eli has more liberty than Alex Smith, but I don't like to see Eli trying to play as a gun-slinger that you all think he is. Giants and Eli need some semblance of a running game, I assure you, that's the ideal formula.If Eli doesn't throw over 30 TDs I will crow but your stupidity has left mein a loss for words and a gun-slinger doesn't mean what you think it means bro but whatever your a joke of a Giants fan you are the same guy that said Brandon Weedon will out play Eli so what does that say about you,,,,,lol

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 08:42 PM
If Eli doesn't throw over 30 TDs I will crow but your stupidity has left mein a loss for words and a gun-slinger doesn't mean what you think it means bro but whatever your a joke of a Giants fan you are the same guy that said Brandon Weedon will out play Eli so what does that say about you,,,,,lol
Why is that even a shocking claim? Whitehurst, Derek Anderson, Rex Grossman, Kitna all have won against Eli. Really, do you even watch Giant games?

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 08:56 PM
Why is that even a shocking claim? Whitehurst, Derek Anderson, Rex Grossman, Kitna all have won against Eli. Really, do you even watch Giant games?I'm done with you your such a loser man...lol Brandon Weeden hahaha I guess it's not a team game anymore lol and go watch Drew Brees and the Saints cause you just way off base lol and let's be honest with some of the stupid stuff you have said today I'm positive you have never seen a Giants game in your life...Have a nice day loser lollllllllllllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YATittle1962
10-02-2012, 09:02 PM
I love how people throw around the term "gunslinger" like it actually means something

quite amusing

gmenfan0488
10-02-2012, 09:04 PM
Eli isn't a game manager when our running game sucks, and last year, the only reason we were in the playoffs was Eli, the guy threw for nearly 5,000 yards. He isn't a "manage the game, don't make mistakes", quarterback any more, he's got the weapons to throw the ball around, and should because our run game's lacking right name

Flip Empty
10-02-2012, 09:43 PM
This is like watching monkeys fling their poo at one another.

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 09:47 PM
I'm done with you your such a loser man...lol Brandon Weeden hahaha I guess it's not a team game anymore lol and go watch Drew Brees and the Saints cause you just way off base lol and let's be honest with some of the stupid stuff you have said today I'm positive you have never seen a Giants game in your life...Have a nice day loser lollllllllllllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's sad to see a homer stoop to a sad low stature of resorting to insults in a discussion about football, really you homers give Giants fans a very bad name acting like spoiled little kids.

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 09:49 PM
Eli isn't a game manager when our running game sucks, and last year, the only reason we were in the playoffs was Eli, the guy threw for nearly 5,000 yards. He isn't a "manage the game, don't make mistakes", quarterback any more, he's got the weapons to throw the ball around, and should because our run game's lacking right name
Yes Eli is gun-slinging out of NEED, and Eli is slowly being destroyed because of it. Give him a running game and Eli can be oh so great...

jax5338
10-02-2012, 10:12 PM
I love how people throw around the term "gunslinger" like it actually means something

quite amusing

it's amazing watching people argue about whether or not somebody fits the description of a term made up by sportscasters.

Flip Empty
10-02-2012, 10:14 PM
I'm done with you your such a loser man...lol Brandon Weeden hahaha I guess it's not a team game anymore lol and go watch Drew Brees and the Saints cause you just way off base lol and let's be honest with some of the stupid stuff you have said today I'm positive you have never seen a Giants game in your life...Have a nice day loser lollllllllllllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's great how people can't have an opinion on here without being insulted personally for having it. Grow up.

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 10:20 PM
It's great how people can't have an opinion on here without being insulted personally for having it. Grow up.lol you don't even know half the story so please shut up empty.....

yoeddy
10-02-2012, 10:21 PM
Yes Eli is gun-slinging out of NEED, and Eli is slowly being destroyed because of it. Give him a running game and Eli can be oh so great...

I think most people say that Eli has gotten better every year he's been in the league. Not exactly a sign of being "destroyed"...

YATittle1962
10-02-2012, 10:28 PM
it's amazing watching people argue about whether or not somebody fits the description of a term made up by sportscasters.

exactly..... EXACTLY!!!!

SweetZombieJesus
10-02-2012, 10:36 PM
The more Eli throws, the chances of losing the game goes up, it's true.

2011 NFC Championship Game he threw more than 50 times.

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 10:40 PM
I think most people say that Eli has gotten better every year he's been in the league. Not exactly a sign of being "destroyed"...
Eli threw career high 25 interceptions in 2010, so not exactly getting better at every department.

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 10:42 PM
2011 NFC Championship Game he threw more than 50 times.
Do you really want Eli to throw 50 times a game and get pounded? Really? You must like violence.

yoeddy
10-02-2012, 10:57 PM
Eli threw career high 25 interceptions in 2010, so not exactly getting better at every department.

That was 2 years ago (and an anomaly compared to every other year of his career), and he followed it up with his best season as a pro in 2011. And you said something about his needing a running game...well, we had a top 10 running game in 2010 and he had a career-high INTs, compared to 2011 where we had one of the league's worst running attacks and he comes up with almost 5000yards, 29 TDs and a career-low INT%.

Again, not really signs of being "destroyed"...

giantsfan420
10-02-2012, 11:03 PM
lmao. his last claim, well every team/qb needs a run game. whats that have to do with ur classic inaccurate understanding and description of several aspects in this thread

SuperNYGiants
10-02-2012, 11:49 PM
That was 2 years ago (and an anomaly compared to every other year of his career), and he followed it up with his best season as a pro in 2011. And you said something about his needing a running game...well, we had a top 10 running game in 2010 and he had a career-high INTs, compared to 2011 where we had one of the league's worst running attacks and he comes up with almost 5000yards, 29 TDs and a career-low INT%.

Again, not really signs of being "destroyed"...
Anomaly or not, that's not getting better over previous years.
I consider 2008 season to be the season where run game was actually an integral part of the offense. Let's take a look at pass attempts by the year:
2008: 479
2009: 509
2010: 539
2011: 589
Now, you've mentioned that we had top 10 running game in 2010, but look at pass attempts, this is why I consider Gilbride to be pass-happy, even with a good running game he resorts to passing just the same.
Eli had 29 TDs in 2011 with 80 more passes attempted than in 2009, where he had 27 TDs, and in 2010 he had 31 TDs. Yeah Eli threw 80 more passes last year versus 2009 and managed a whopping 2 more TDs. Lots of style points, yes, but not much efficiency. Last season is Eli's ceiling as far as being a gun-slinger QB goes, Gilbride is taxing Eli's arm to death for a very slim bump in TD production. And looking at the pass attempts last season, that 5,000 yard passing looks inflated seeing that Eli attempted 50 more passes than the previous season, that's a lot.

I assure you, last year's formula is not the ideal for Eli, over-working and counting on Eli every 4th quarter will lead to more failures than successes, the game is simply conceived in such a way that not even a great QB can fight against the odds long-term.

Flip Empty
10-02-2012, 11:54 PM
lol you don't even know half the story so please shut up empty.....
There you go again. You debate the opinion, not the person.

Eliscruzzz
10-02-2012, 11:57 PM
There you go again. You debate the opinion, not the person.man seriously you are not my dad this has been going on the whole day so why don't you just shut it..... but you probably won't so keep telling how I'm acting like a child.... cause you are the holy Giants fan that is proper in every aspect of life PLEASE GIVE ME A BREAK.....I guess you didn't read the whole thread and who made you a mod????? I've been "debating" the opinion the whole time and what he is saying about Eli and his play is 100% false just cause he doesn't throw for 100 TDs doesn't mean he is not in the top 5 qb class

Flip Empty
10-03-2012, 12:04 AM
man seriously you are not my dad this has been going on the whole day so why don't you just shut it..... but you probably won't so keep telling how I'm acting like a child.... cause the the holy Giants fans that is proper in every aspect of life PLEASE GIVE ME A BREAK.....
Not gonna keep ragging on you, it's just that this seems to happen often and it's usually what leads to these arguments spiralling out of control. If you just tear a person's opinion to shreds, they have nothing to come back with. If you just insult them, they'll keep coming back.

Eliscruzzz
10-03-2012, 12:05 AM
Anomaly or not, that's not getting better over previous years.
I consider 2008 season to be the season where run game was actually an integral part of the offense. Let's take a look at pass attempts by the year:
2008: 479
2009: 509
2010: 539
2011: 589
Now, you've mentioned that we had top 10 running game in 2010, but look at pass attempts, this is why I consider Gilbride to be pass-happy, even with a good running game he resorts to passing just the same.
Eli had 29 TDs in 2011 with 80 more passes attempted than in 2009, where he had 27 TDs, and in 2010 he had 31 TDs. Yeah Eli threw 80 more passes last year versus 2009 and managed a whopping 2 more TDs. Lots of style points, yes, but not much efficiency. Last season is Eli's ceiling as far as being a gun-slinger QB goes, Gilbride is taxing Eli's arm to death for a very slim bump in TD production. And looking at the pass attempts last season, that 5,000 yard passing looks inflated seeing that Eli attempted 50 more passes than the previous season, that's a lot.

I assure you, last year's formula is not the ideal for Eli, over-working and counting on Eli every 4th quarter will lead to more failures than successes, the game is simply conceived in such a way that not even a great QB can fight against the odds long-term.lol once again your missing the point Eli has been improving every year just look at the completion % and the yards you are going by TD which doesn't do Eli justice cause once again the Giants always run the ball into the endzone they could have Eli throw it all the time in the endzone and his td's would be around your so called "gun-slingers".

Eliscruzzz
10-03-2012, 12:08 AM
Not gonna keep ragging on you, it's just that this seems to happen often and it's usually what leads to these arguments spiralling out of control. If you just tear a person's opinion to shreds, they have nothing to come back with. If you just insult them, they'll keep coming back.I really don't care man whatever....

Eliscruzzz
10-03-2012, 12:10 AM
Anomaly or not, that's not getting better over previous years.
I consider 2008 season to be the season where run game was actually an integral part of the offense. Let's take a look at pass attempts by the year:
2008: 479
2009: 509
2010: 539
2011: 589
Now, you've mentioned that we had top 10 running game in 2010, but look at pass attempts, this is why I consider Gilbride to be pass-happy, even with a good running game he resorts to passing just the same.
Eli had 29 TDs in 2011 with 80 more passes attempted than in 2009, where he had 27 TDs, and in 2010 he had 31 TDs. Yeah Eli threw 80 more passes last year versus 2009 and managed a whopping 2 more TDs. Lots of style points, yes, but not much efficiency. Last season is Eli's ceiling as far as being a gun-slinger QB goes, Gilbride is taxing Eli's arm to death for a very slim bump in TD production. And looking at the pass attempts last season, that 5,000 yard passing looks inflated seeing that Eli attempted 50 more passes than the previous season, that's a lot.

I assure you, last year's formula is not the ideal for Eli, over-working and counting on Eli every 4th quarter will lead to more failures than successes, the game is simply conceived in such a way that not even a great QB can fight against the odds long-term.9 95 197 48.2 1,043 5.29 6 52 9 2 -- 55.4
2005

NYG

16 294 557 52.8 3,762 6.75 24 78 17 7 -- 75.9
2006

NYG

16 301 522 57.7 3,244 6.22 24 55 18 7 -- 77.0
2007

NYG

16 297 529 56.1 3,336 6.31 23 60 20 9 -- 73.9
2008

NYG

16 289 479 60.3 3,238 6.76 21 48 10 5 62.6 86.4
2009

NYG

16 317 509 62.3 4,021 7.90 27 74 14 9 69.8 93.1
2010

NYG

16 339 539 62.9 4,002 7.43 31 92 25 5 65.9 85.3
2011

NYG

16 359 589 61.0 4,933 8.38 29 99 16 6 59.4 92.9
2012

NYG

4 103 160 64.4 1,320 8.25 7 80 4 1 63.7 94.3

Notice how the completion% along with everything else has gone up, even when he is throwing the ball more or being pass happy as you put it. also his qbr has gone up almost 20% that right there shows you how much he is involved with wins...

SuperNYGiants
10-03-2012, 12:28 AM
lol once again your missing the point Eli has been improving every year just look at the completion % and the yards you are going by TD which doesn't do Eli justice cause once again the Giants always run the ball into the endzone they could have Eli throw it all the time in the endzone and his td's would be around your so called "gun-slingers".
You make absolutely no sense. Eli attempted most passes in 2011 and you keep saying Eli wasn't given a chance to score more TDs. Very comical.

Eliscruzzz
10-03-2012, 12:33 AM
You make absolutely no sense. Eli attempted most passes in 2011 and you keep saying Eli wasn't given a chance to score more TDs. Very comical.It does make sense cause obviously if you watched Giants football you would know that the Giants when they get to the 5 yard line the run the ball in all those other qb's you talk about throw the ball in the redzone and pass attempts mean nothing lol find me a stat about pass attempt in the redzone the I can take you somewhat serious....or do I have to find it for you lol

SuperNYGiants
10-03-2012, 12:38 AM
9 95 197 48.2 1,043 5.29 6 52 9 2 -- 55.4
2005

NYG

16 294 557 52.8 3,762 6.75 24 78 17 7 -- 75.9
2006

NYG

16 301 522 57.7 3,244 6.22 24 55 18 7 -- 77.0
2007

NYG

16 297 529 56.1 3,336 6.31 23 60 20 9 -- 73.9
2008

NYG

16 289 479 60.3 3,238 6.76 21 48 10 5 62.6 86.4
2009

NYG

16 317 509 62.3 4,021 7.90 27 74 14 9 69.8 93.1
2010

NYG

16 339 539 62.9 4,002 7.43 31 92 25 5 65.9 85.3
2011

NYG

16 359 589 61.0 4,933 8.38 29 99 16 6 59.4 92.9
2012

NYG

4 103 160 64.4 1,320 8.25 7 80 4 1 63.7 94.3

Notice how the completion% along with everything else has gone up, even when he is throwing the ball more or being pass happy as you put it. also his qbr has gone up almost 20% that right there shows you how much he is involved with wins...
Forget the few percentage points, in real world it doesn't mean much. Like I said, in 2011 Eli hit the ceiling and with 80 more pass attempts than 2009 he managed 2 more TDs, that's risking too much. I expect 2012 Eli to go south real fast if he's pushed even more than 2011. You can count on it.

Eliscruzzz
10-03-2012, 12:44 AM
Forget the few percentage points, in real world it doesn't mean much. Like I said, in 2011 Eli hit the ceiling and with 50 more pass attempts than 2009 he managed 2 more TDs, that's risking too much. I expect 2012 Eli to go south real fast if he's pushed even more than 2011. You can count on it.ok whatever forget all that stuff that counts lol... any here is a site that proves my point that the Giants rush the ball all the time in the redzone http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-touchdowns-per-game?date=2011-02-07 and notice every since the Giants signed Eli have been in the top 10 in rushing TDs 6 out of the 8 years Eli has been here look at the top teams for rushing touchdowns a game and you won't find Green Bay, New Orleans, or the Colts on there only the Pats made it one year in the top ten check it out....this is why you don't see all the crazy TD numbers for Eli which is what you have been bashing him for saying he's a game manager personally I would like to see them throw it More in the Redzone so Eli can go over 30 TDs but it's not what the Giants do.....except lately cause they know Eli has progressed his game to the top level QBs.....you can even check the passing td offense per year and the Giants were in the top ten once 2010 that's it cause at least 1 or 2 times a game they decide to run it in instead of throw it in... check it out it's right there for you to see....

SuperNYGiants
10-03-2012, 12:51 AM
ok whatever forget all that stuff that counts lol... any here is a site that proves my point that the Giants rush the ball all the time in the redzone http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-touchdowns-per-game?date=2011-02-07 and notice every since the Giants signed Eli have been in the top 10 in rushing TDs 6 out of the 8 years Eli has been here look at the top teams for rushing touchdowns a game and you won't find Green Bay, New Orleans, or the Colts on there only the Pats made it one year in the top ten check it out....
Your point is irrelevant, with 80 more pass attempts getting merely 2 more TDs is simply not efficient production. Eli is asked to do a lot for a very little gain.

Eliscruzzz
10-03-2012, 01:00 AM
Your point is irrelevant, with 80 more pass attempts getting merely 2 more TDs is simply not efficient production. Eli is asked to do a lot for a very little gain.well this site says your point is irrelevant I get it...it sucks to be wrong you don't want to face the facts I get it but this is the way it's going to be Eli is not a game manager anymore and if we find a running game great but if not this perfectly suits Eli's game he has proven he can do it and your swipe at the notion that 29 td's is garbage when more half of the qbs in the league can't even get 20 so..... I knew you were to lazy to check out the real facts I expected nothing less from you...lol

BeatYale
10-03-2012, 01:26 AM
Yes, let's take Eagles game for example, the defense played the run, so GUN SLINGING sexy Eli should light up the scoreboard no? Oh look, how many points the offense got in first half, wow! A whole 3 points!!

Folks, we all love Eli like a step-son and we bleed blue, but Eli is not a gun-slinger. Eli is a good QB, no doubt about it, but his style and tendencies do not equate to being a gun-slinger.

First thing that goes against Eli being a gun-slinger is that he starts off very slow in the first half, often not doing much or throwing INTs left and right to put the team in a nice hole. Have you seen Rodgers doing his gun-slinger thing where his scores 3 TDs in a blink of an eye before the opposing defense even realizes what just happened in the first half? THAT is a gun-slinger. Brees is a gun slinger too. Peyton in his prime years, yes. Eli? No.

Eli is good enough passer to have some nice 4th qt comebacks, but that's not the same as him being a gun-slinger.

Let's review as to why Eli is not a gun-slinger QB:

1. Starts the game very slow.
2. Doesn't score many points in first half most of the time.
3. Not having run support hurts his game more so than being irrelevant, like Brees and Rodgers are.
4. Look at Peyton
5. The more Eli passes, the worse he is and loses games.

I think the term gun slinger is a bit wacky. Brees, for example, runs a gimmick offense that has a lot of dinking and dunking type passes to the TE and RB. 235 of his 468 completions last year were to TE's or RB's. Sproles had 86 receptions! That's more receptions than all of the Giants RB's combined last season, that's more receptions than any Giants WR.

It's really hard to compare QB's when guys are in different systems with different personnel.

SuperNYGiants
10-03-2012, 01:28 AM
well this site says your point is irrelevant I get it...it sucks to be wrong you don't want to face the facts I get it but this is the way it's going to be Eli is not a game manager anymore and if we find a running game great but if not this perfectly suits Eli's game he has proven he can do it and your swipe at the notion that 29 td's is garbage when more half of the qbs in the league can't even get 20 so..... I knew you were to lazy to check out the real facts I expected nothing less from you...lol
You are not giving me any facts in regards to supporting your case, you simply took something about rushing attempts in redzone and twisted it and pointed out somehow that it proves your point when it doesn't. The two things are not connecting. Eli attempted 80 more passes and managed just 2 more pass TDs, just look at those two numbers, and you should realize that it's not efficient. If you think running game inside redzone had anything to do with it, does it say they had significantly more rushing TDs in 2011 than in 2009?

In 2009 they had 14 rushing TDs on 443 attempts
In 2011 they had 17 rushing TDs on 411 attempts

That right there disproves your point because they didn't even attempt more rushes in 2011.
Game over.

Eliscruzzz
10-03-2012, 01:29 AM
I think the term gun slinger is a bit wacky. Brees, for example, runs a gimmick offense that has a lot of dinking and dunking type passes to the TE and RB. 235 of his 468 completions last year were to TE's or RB's. Sproles had 86 receptions! That's more receptions than all of the Giants RB's combined last season, that's more receptions than any Giants WR.

It's really hard to compare QB's when guys are in different systems with different personnel.this ^^^^^^^^^^

Eliscruzzz
10-03-2012, 01:34 AM
You are not giving me any facts in regards to supporting your case, you simply took something about rushing attempts in redzone and twisted it and pointed out somehow that it proves your point when it doesn't. The two things are not connecting. Eli attempted 80 more passes and managed just 2 more pass TDs, just look at those two numbers, and you should realize that it's not efficient. If you think running game inside redzone had anything to do with it, does it say they had significantly more rushing TDs in 2011 than in 2009?

In 2009 they had 14 rushing TDs on 443 attempts
In 2011 they had 17 rushing TDs on 411 attempts

That right there disproves your point because they didn't even attempt more rushes in 2011.
Game over.It does prove my point they were in the TOP 10 IN RUSHING TDS per game I don't know how clearer it could be for you that should tell you that when they get into the redzone they run the ball for tds not throw little screens or hb passes to get passing tds but I came to the conclusion that you'll never get you made your whole arguement off a ridiculous td notion and it's funny that you pick the two years that I already said they weren't in the top 10 lol what about the other 6?????

Eliscruzzz
10-03-2012, 01:37 AM
You are not giving me any facts in regards to supporting your case, you simply took something about rushing attempts in redzone and twisted it and pointed out somehow that it proves your point when it doesn't. The two things are not connecting. Eli attempted 80 more passes and managed just 2 more pass TDs, just look at those two numbers, and you should realize that it's not efficient. If you think running game inside redzone had anything to do with it, does it say they had significantly more rushing TDs in 2011 than in 2009?

In 2009 they had 14 rushing TDs on 443 attempts
In 2011 they had 17 rushing TDs on 411 attempts

That right there disproves your point because they didn't even attempt more rushes in 2011.
Game over.also don't discount that 25 tds a year is bad if Eli throws for 25 the next 7 year he will end up with 350 passing tds that is pretty damn good so.............

SuperNYGiants
10-03-2012, 01:45 AM
It does prove my point they were in the TOP 10 IN RUSHING TDS per game I don't know how clearer it could be for you that should tell you that when they get into the redzone they run the ball for tds not throw little screens or hb passes to get passing tds but I came to the conclusion that you'll never get you made your whole arguement off a ridiculous td notion and it's funny that you pick the two years that I already said they weren't in the top 10 lol what about the other 6?????
You don't get it do you, with 80 more pass attempts and 1,000 yards more, you'd think they'd get more rushing chances for TDs, that was your argument, but it proved to be wrong when they didn't even have more attempts in 2011. Yes it must hurt to be totally wrong and exposed, you'll get used to it.

SuperNYGiants
10-03-2012, 01:47 AM
also don't discount that 25 tds a year is bad if Eli throws for 25 the next 7 year he will end up with 350 passing tds that is pretty damn good so.............
A wishful thought? That's nice, but irrelevant.

Eliscruzzz
10-03-2012, 01:51 AM
You don't get it do you, with 80 more pass attempts and 1,000 yards more, you'd think they'd get more rushing chances for TDs, that was your argument, but it proved to be wrong when they didn't even have more attempts in 2011. Yes it must hurt to be totally wrong and exposed, you'll get used to it.Yeah ok man your soooooooooo right Eli sucks he's just a game manager that can't throw 50 tds a season lol how ridiculous does that sound????? LOL I'm not hurt at all cause I gave you FACTS while you gave me TDs lol talk about being greedy do you either want him to throw for 50 tds or have a running game make up your mind and I want you back here when you eat crow off Eli's butt. Have a nice day.... keep trying to defend you idiotic premise....

Eliscruzzz
10-03-2012, 01:54 AM
A wishful thought? That's nice, but irrelevant.lol it will happen 193 td's righ now do the math even though you probably can't so here
25x7=175 +193= 363 well what do you know more then 350 I know it's hard to grasp how can someone like Eli who never misses a game ever pass for that many TDs......

SuperNYGiants
10-03-2012, 01:55 AM
Yeah ok man your soooooooooo right Eli sucks he's just a game manager that can't throw 50 tds a season lol how ridiculous does that sound????? LOL I'm not hurt at all cause I gave you FACTS while you gave me TDs lol talk about being greedy do you either want him to throw for 50 tds or have a running game make up your mind and I want you back here when you eat crow off Eli's butt. Have a nice day.... keep trying to defend you idiotic premise....
Eli will never get 50 TDs in a season, because like I have been saying, he's no gun-slinger. 2011 was his CEILING. He should cut back on pass attempts, say by 30, that's his sweet spot.

Eliscruzzz
10-03-2012, 02:01 AM
Eli will never get 50 TDs in a season, because like I have been saying, he's no gun-slinger. 2011 was his CEILING. He should cut back on pass attempts, say by 30, that's his sweet spot.dumb^^^ and you are now blocked cause that is the biggest bs you ever said today what qb can throw for 50 td besides Brady name 1????? lol good bye super it's been real.............

giantsfan420
10-03-2012, 02:48 AM
dude, not one person has found any of his statements credible. dont sweat it

xRick52x
10-03-2012, 02:56 AM
Some of the throws he's chucking it out there, I can only shake my head in utter disgust.

Apparently crazy Gilbride still thinks Eli is a gun-slinger when he isn't. Eli is at his best when he is managing the game with a nice touch of run game support.

The more Eli throws, the chances of losing the game goes up, it's true.

yeah, okay bud. You do know that we were LAST in the running game last season, right? Where the heck have you been bud...

Captain Chaos
10-03-2012, 06:05 AM
I think he's arrogant as well!

GCGiant
10-03-2012, 09:51 AM
The OP's posts are eerily similar to Harooni's...

GMENAGAIN
10-03-2012, 10:10 AM
dumb^^^ and you are now blocked cause that is the biggest bs you ever said today what qb can throw for 50 td besides Brady name 1????? lol good bye super it's been real.............

Blocking other posters who are not being abusive or threatening, simply because you disagree with their position . . . . . . . . how truly gay.

Almost as gay as PM'ing nasty message to other posters. If you have something to say, why not just say it out here for everyone to se???

BlueReign
10-03-2012, 10:16 AM
Didn't read any of this. The simple answer is NO.

burier
10-03-2012, 10:42 AM
This thread was created on Troll Tuesday.