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View Full Version : I've figured out the problem with the offensive line



joemorrisforprez
10-05-2012, 07:21 PM
For most of the season, the Giants offensive line has attempted to set up their blocks according to how Gilbride has been drawing up the plays.

Now, this approach might be all well and good for a running back that is going to stay with the play (please refer to Andre Brown v. Bucs and Carolina).

However, what the offensive line really needs to do is set up their blocks according to where they think Ahmad Bradshaw is going to be running.

For example, had they done that at the end of the game v. Philly, there's a good chance Bradshaw would have busted off 5 or 6 yards. Who knows?

Anyway, I think we should be set up for Cleveland's defense if they can work this into the gameplan.

Marvelousmik
10-05-2012, 07:24 PM
For most of the season, the Giants offensive line has attempted to set up their blocks according to how Gilbride has been drawing up the plays.

Now, this approach might be all well and good for a running back that is going to stay with the play (please refer to Andre Brown v. Bucs and Carolina).

However, what the offensive line really needs to do is set up their blocks according to where they think Ahmad Bradshaw is going to be running.

For example, had they done that at the end of the game v. Philly, there's a good chance Bradshaw would have busted off 5 or 6 yards. Who knows?

Anyway, I think we should be set up for Cleveland's defense if they can work this into the gameplan.

I know what you're trying to say, but this makes absolutely no sense

TheEnigma
10-05-2012, 07:33 PM
The offensive line has been fine since the second half of the TB game. We're getting such an improvement from our Ts not only in pass protection but Beatty has been instrument in making blocks on the edge for Brown to get his TDs. Snee looks like he is playing better this year with Locklear next to him instead of McKenzie. The only problem I have is that Boothe and Baas could afford to pick up there game a little more. Boothe was just downright atrocious against the Eagles and didn't exactly help us get the running game going in the middle.

joemorrisforprez
10-05-2012, 07:39 PM
The offensive line has been fine since the second half of the TB game. We're getting such an improvement from our Ts not only in pass protection but Beatty has been instrument in making blocks on the edge for Brown to get his TDs. Snee looks like he is playing better this year with Locklear next to him instead of McKenzie. The only problem I have is that Boothe and Baas could afford to pick up there game a little more. Boothe was just downright atrocious against the Eagles and didn't exactly help us get the running game going in the middle.


That's a fair point...I was expecting alot more from Boothe.

ELIte4MVP
10-05-2012, 07:40 PM
how about bradshaw runs where he is supposed to run? how is the oline supposed to know where bradshaw is going when he is behind them?

TheEnigma
10-05-2012, 07:45 PM
That's a fair point...I was expecting alot more from Boothe.

I see what you're getting at though with a different blocking scheme but someone mentioned on here before that Bradshaw is like the David Carr of RBs now - he has become so accustomed to having little to work with in front of him that he now seems to dance to the edges instead of follow the assigned blocks. He can still bust out some nice 5-15 yard runs for us on occasion but the amount of 1-2 yard runs he has provided because of his David Carr syndrome hurts us. As of this moment, he should still be the #1 back because of his pass blocking but I do hope Coughlin plans on diving the workload more in favor of Brown and Wilson as the season goes on. Bradshaw would make a fantastic 3rd down back when it comes to be that time.

GiantRoc
10-05-2012, 07:59 PM
I see what you're getting at though with a different blocking scheme but someone mentioned on here before that Bradshaw is like the David Carr of RBs now - he has become so accustomed to having little to work with in front of him that he now seems to dance to the edges instead of follow the assigned blocks.

This just doesn't fly. Bradshaw sits through game films every week. If he sees what we all see, he should have adjusted his running by now. Beside that, if you look at old game films you can see how many mistakes he has made over the years by not running the designed hole. For the most part we have and avg O-line. I sorry to say this guys, but Bradshaw is an avg RB. Not a knock, just a fact. He has HUGE heart, but his instincts are avg at best. Saddly I think he runs himself out of good gains more times than not.
As for Carr. I think he has lost the fire. He is too happy to hold the clipboard, and he is not pushed from behind. I used to feel good about him as a back up, but now I am terrified if Eli ever went down for a game or 2.

joemorrisforprez
10-05-2012, 08:05 PM
how about bradshaw runs where he is supposed to run? how is the oline supposed to know where bradshaw is going when he is behind them?

I was just kidding around.....your comments were really my point.

joemorrisforprez
10-05-2012, 08:07 PM
I see what you're getting at though with a different blocking scheme but someone mentioned on here before that Bradshaw is like the David Carr of RBs now - he has become so accustomed to having little to work with in front of him that he now seems to dance to the edges instead of follow the assigned blocks. He can still bust out some nice 5-15 yard runs for us on occasion but the amount of 1-2 yard runs he has provided because of his David Carr syndrome hurts us. As of this moment, he should still be the #1 back because of his pass blocking but I do hope Coughlin plans on diving the workload more in favor of Brown and Wilson as the season goes on. Bradshaw would make a fantastic 3rd down back when it comes to be that time.

I didn't see that comment, but that's a really interesting point.

Another possibility is that he's so used to being able to use his burst and cutback ability to avoid disaster that he's pretty much settled into this habit, but his body is now slowing down with all the pounding he's taken.

giantsfan420
10-05-2012, 08:43 PM
kevin boothe tripping over himself 2x a game aint helping thats for sure...anyone else notice that he has 1 trip over himself play a game?

Buddy333
10-05-2012, 10:37 PM
The OL is not fine. They do a better job at pass blocking but have been struggling to block well when running the ball for over a year now. For every run you want to blame Bradshaw for not going the right way you can blame the OL 5 times for having defenders almost take the hand off from Eli. They ran the ball well playing from behind against Tampa and then hers are not a good team.

Cool Papa B.
10-05-2012, 10:44 PM
For most of the season, the Giants offensive line has attempted to set up their blocks according to how Gilbride has been drawing up the plays.

Now, this approach might be all well and good for a running back that is going to stay with the play (please refer to Andre Brown v. Bucs and Carolina).

However, what the offensive line really needs to do is set up their blocks according to where they think Ahmad Bradshaw is going to be running.

For example, had they done that at the end of the game v. Philly, there's a good chance Bradshaw would have busted off 5 or 6 yards. Who knows?

Anyway, I think we should be set up for Cleveland's defense if they can work this into the gameplan.

How about giving more carries to Brown who runs downhill and is more explosive than Bradshaw. I'm not saying to take Bradshaw out completely, just give more carries to Brown.

ELIte4MVP
10-05-2012, 10:46 PM
I was just kidding around.....your comments were really my point.


gotcha. yeah i agree i mean the run blocking hasn't been great, but he really needs to trust the play more. its getting ridiculous

bearbryant
10-05-2012, 11:04 PM
Drafts for the last ten years... Any early rounders? No. So whats the question?

Captain Chaos
10-06-2012, 07:30 AM
The Eagles spent more time in the Backfield than Brown did last game. The interior of this line has to step it up. Bradshaw is going nowhere if he is greeted by a 300 lb lineman just after he gets the ball handed to him, that did happen. The Browns have some LARGE DTs (330+) which really worries me. I'm not sure if Baas will be able to handle that...

fansince69
10-06-2012, 07:33 AM
The Eagles spent more time in the Backfield than Brown did last game. The interior of this line has to step it up. Bradshaw is going nowhere if he is greeted by a 300 lb lineman just after he gets the ball handed to him, that did happen. The Browns have some LARGE DTs (330+) which really worries me. I'm not sure if Baas will be able to handle that...
he seemed to do a good job against Woofolk(sp) in the superbowl

Diamondring
10-06-2012, 08:46 AM
The OL is not fine. They do a better job at pass blocking but have been struggling to block well when running the ball for over a year now. For every run you want to blame Bradshaw for not going the right way you can blame the OL 5 times for having defenders almost take the hand off from Eli. They ran the ball well playing from behind against Tampa and then hers are not a good team.In life, you going to have weaknesses and strengths. This is why I get on some posters when they talk about execution like it is automatic. Well it is not cause the play can be executed well and still fail cause the play does not hide the weakness or the opposition's defensive play was the better one.

We also have to look at our players. Reese is not going to get that pefect team. Sometimes we have luck and that can work against you. We also have Novice players as wellso it is hard to say that the O-line is not doing a good job especially when you have five main blockers and no help can make things harder.

BuffyBlueII
10-06-2012, 09:46 AM
Ahmad Bradshaw adjusts his runs because he iz not getting the lanes and the blocks required from the offensive line. Heck, we are even having problems with snapping the ball properly.This O line has been a problem for the past few seasons and they are now at their absolute worst.I bELIeve.

jomo
10-06-2012, 11:13 AM
At our core the problem is that we just don't have the talent. Our best OL Snee is only above average at this point in his career. Our average guys are below average NFL grade OL (Baas and Beatty). Our bottom guys are downright scary at times and below average NFL linemen (Diehl, Boothe, Locklear, Petrus and Brewer). We need considerable overhaul but that won't happen until the offseason.

In the meantime, I agree that Bradshaw could help as Brown did with a more decisive forthright running style.

giantsfan420
10-06-2012, 11:17 AM
Lockler has been awesome Jomo imo

jomo
10-06-2012, 11:23 AM
Lockler has been awesome Jomo imoYou are right, especially given how we got him. I was just a roll and reached a bit. Allow me to remain frightened of Diehl, Boothe and Petrus with nothing special reviews on the rest.

TheEnigma
10-06-2012, 11:32 AM
Beatty is quietly putting together a really nice season. He finally got the Trent Cole monkey off of his back last week and I'm really looking forward to see him battle Aldon Smith when we go to SF.

giantsfan420
10-06-2012, 11:35 AM
You are right, especially given how we got him. I was just a roll and reached a bit. Allow me to remain frightened of Diehl, Boothe and Petrus with nothing special reviews on the rest.

i agreed with everything else u wrote tho. how would u fix the OL? draft? FA? both? we def/ need an influx of young talent

jomo
10-06-2012, 11:47 AM
i agreed with everything else u wrote tho. how would u fix the OL? draft? FA? both? we def/ need an influx of young talentIt is probably a multi year project. We need to reload with projects on the practice squad that have more upside than our current crop. I think if we can find a stud at LG in free agency, we can muddle through with the rest for another year. However we need to begin reloading our depth immediately because Snee and Diehl and Locklear and Baas, now 31 will all need to be replaced. that can happen through the draft and prehaps mid level FA signings.

BeatYale
10-06-2012, 12:00 PM
I completely agree with the OP, it makes perfect sense to me. Each of our offensive linemen need to figure out how to read Bradshaw's mind. Once that is out of the way, they can can learn to read the minds of opposing defensive linemen to know in advance what type of dance moves they plan on using to try to get past them on a pass rush.

I'm emailing Coughlin right now. Thanks OP.

joemorrisforprez
10-06-2012, 01:04 PM
gotcha. yeah i agree i mean the run blocking hasn't been great, but he really needs to trust the play more. its getting ridiculous

Bradshaw bailed on his blocking on the most important running play of the game......that's not according to me.....that's according to Carl Banks, who said there was a nice gain there for the taking if Bradshaw stuck with his blocks.

So instead of maybe 2nd and 3 and a field goal of under 40 yards, it's 2nd and long.

My point is that Bradshaw makes the offensive line look much worse than it really is. I think the line is fine.

Back when Bradshaw had explosiveness and cutback ability, his helter-skelter running style could be understood.

I feel like I'm watching an aging pitcher that has lost his fastball, but still wants to challenge the sluggers with high heat.

joemorrisforprez
10-06-2012, 01:05 PM
I completely agree with the OP, it makes perfect sense to me. Each of our offensive linemen need to figure out how to read Bradshaw's mind. Once that is out of the way, they can can learn to read the minds of opposing defensive linemen to know in advance what type of dance moves they plan on using to try to get past them on a pass rush.

I'm emailing Coughlin right now. Thanks OP.

The same line that made Andre Brown look like Arian Foster?.....the same line that gave up zero sacks v. Philly? Okay, gotcha.

Buddy333
10-06-2012, 02:13 PM
Don't forget that Bradshaw played most of the game and he had something to do win Eli not getting sacked.

Diamondring
10-06-2012, 02:51 PM
Posters talk about we need to do this and we need to do that but I say inorder to do some things, the team needs to have a bad record so they can get some of the players in the high rounds. Giants had so much success in past seasons that most of the time they are in the late or middle rounds. They haven't had a real early round since they drafted Rivers I think. There are going to be some players in the high rounds with a lot of talent and they are going to go early.

Another thing we have to look at is prepare our young talent. We need to start doing that even if we have a bad season. It is time to get Randle going and maybe Barden. These guys along with Wilson at rb hopefully can give us more talent than teams can handle. I think that the Giants maybe should move up and get a big prospect at O-line a star our backs can run behind to give the Giants a power running game you guys love.

ShakeandBake
10-06-2012, 03:05 PM
Beatty is quietly putting together a really nice season. He finally got the Trent Cole monkey off of his back last week and I'm really looking forward to see him battle Aldon Smith when we go to SF.

Beatty is the only bright spot on our offensive line now that Snee is hurt

joemorrisforprez
10-06-2012, 03:19 PM
Don't forget that Bradshaw played most of the game and he had something to do win Eli not getting sacked.

Bradshaw's best talent is in pass protection. That's apparently not enough to beat Philly, though.

I said before the Philly game that if Bradshaw started, and saw the lion's share of the work, the Giants were going to lose. So, I pretty much expected to see what happened on Sunday night. I wasn't surprised at all.

I thought the best way to attack the Philly defense was by running the ball up the gut with Andre Brown. I thought this would be effective for several reasons:

1....The Wide Nine stretches the gap responsibilities of the linebackers.....the LBs have to cover alot of ground, and that's going to result in arm tackles.
2....The Philly defense is undersized, which favored a running attack.
3....Andre Brown is a tough downhill runner with good ball security and the ability to break arm tackles.
4....Establishment of the run would increase the effectiveness of the play-action.
5....The success of Martellus Bennett would require that Philly's linebackers accounted for him, which would help the running game.

In another post, Roanoke posted the following....



"....We expected it to be more 50/50, but as the [Eagles] game was going, it looked like it was one of those days where we wound up throwing the ball more and so Ahmad wanted to be in there more," said Gilbride. "We’ll play it out and see who’s having some success. Unfortunately neither one of them were having a lot of success. So it was no reason to stay, from a running perspective, with one of them as opposed to or over the other. It was really a matter of what were we doing? Well, we were throwing more and Ahmad, right now, is a better pass protector......"


Killdrive went pass happy, against a defense that is built to stop the pass. In fact, Philly's defense is built specifically to stop the Giants passing attack. So, as he has done 8 of the last 9 losses, our offensive game plan was designed to go against the strength of the Philly defense, rather than attack it's weakness.

As a result of that strategy, our most effective runner is swapped out for our least effective runner, in order to provide pass protection against a defense built specifically to counter the Giants passing attack.

And then, with the game on the line.....Bradshaw ****s up a simple running play that Carl Banks said would have a otherwise been a nice gain. I'm thinking that if the Giants had 2nd and short, and inside a 40 yard kick, it would have influenced what Coughlin later decided.

Obviously we'll never know. But like I said, it's no surprise this approach has now lost the Giants 8 of the last 9 against the Eagles.

The longer they stubbornly stick with Bradshaw, the tougher it's going to be to win the NFC East. So far, were 0-2 in the division with him carrying the rock.

joemorrisforprez
10-06-2012, 03:23 PM
One more thing.....I guarantee you the Steelers offensie will attack the Wide Nine with interior running, and an uptempo attack that prevents the constant D-line rotation of Philly.

Philly is going to lose tomorrow because the Steelers are going to attack their weakness.

Buddy333
10-06-2012, 03:58 PM
Bradshaw's best talent is in pass protection. That's apparently not enough to beat Philly, though.I said before the Philly game that if Bradshaw started, and saw the lion's share of the work, the Giants were going to lose. So, I pretty much expected to see what happened on Sunday night. I wasn't surprised at all.I thought the best way to attack the Philly defense was by running the ball up the gut with Andre Brown. I thought this would be effective for several reasons:1....The Wide Nine stretches the gap responsibilities of the linebackers.....the LBs have to cover alot of ground, and that's going to result in arm tackles. 2....The Philly defense is undersized, which favored a running attack.3....Andre Brown is a tough downhill runner with good ball security and the ability to break arm tackles.4....Establishment of the run would increase the effectiveness of the play-action.5....The success of Martellus Bennett would require that Philly's linebackers accounted for him, which would help the running game.In another post, Roanoke posted the following.... Killdrive went pass happy, against a defense that is built to stop the pass. In fact, Philly's defense is built specifically to stop the Giants passing attack. So, as he has done 8 of the last 9 losses, our offensive game plan was designed to go against the strength of the Philly defense, rather than attack it's weakness. As a result of that strategy, our most effective runner is swapped out for our least effective runner, in order to provide pass protection against a defense built specifically to counter the Giants passing attack. And then, with the game on the line.....Bradshaw ****s up a simple running play that Carl Banks said would have a otherwise been a nice gain. I'm thinking that if the Giants had 2nd and short, and inside a 40 yard kick, it would have influenced what Coughlin later decided. Obviously we'll never know. But like I said, it's no surprise this approach has now lost the Giants 8 of the last 9 against the Eagles.The longer they stubbornly stick with Bradshaw, the tougher it's going to be to win the NFC East. So far, were 0-2 in the division with him carrying the rock.Right and they would have won he game had Eli been sacked numerous times? I'll go with what the coaches said and that is that he is their BEST blocker right now and because the threw it more than a they ran it because BOTH runners had no success it was going to be Bradshaw back there more. Another thing, the Eagles have been dominating the Giants for some time now. They have won something like 17 of the last 25 games between the 2 teams. It has nothing to do with just KG or Bradshaw