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View Full Version : Giants' Andre Brown can run, but he can't block



RoanokeFan
10-05-2012, 08:49 PM
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/10/giants_andre_brown_must_block.html

Excerpt: "The Giants planned that running backs Ahmad Bradshaw and Andre Brown would split the snaps, and carries, at about 50/50 last week against the Philadelphia Eagles.

But Bradshaw played 58 of the 68 offensive snaps. Brown was in on just nine and had five carries for 14 yards.

On Thursday, offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride gave the simple answer: The Giants donít trust Brown enough in pass protection, and they had been forced to throw more than they had planned.

Brown knows thatís the case and is looking to improve as a pass blocker." Read more...

Eli TO Shockey
10-05-2012, 08:51 PM
yea. ..cant pass block, cant play. time to get it togeter AB #2

CowboysSuck
10-05-2012, 08:52 PM
im getting fed up with gilbride and coughlin carping about how every back except bradshaw cant block. its ridiculous

giantsfan420
10-05-2012, 08:53 PM
i kinda agree, vs philly, KG has a point. but he cant pull that excuse vs Cleveland imho...give Brown a shot in pass protection, he did well vs TB when we had to make that epic comeback...

Eli TO Shockey
10-05-2012, 08:53 PM
im getting fed up with gilbride and coughlin carping about how every back except bradshaw cant block. its ridiculous

you're right. Lets just let ELI get murdered in the backfield....

TC and KG are protecting their greatest asset. that is all.

CowboysSuck
10-05-2012, 08:53 PM
Either they suck at blocking, which is inherently up to coaching (ala their faults) or they really dont and are just giving fluffy answers to excuse themselves of playing favorites

Eliscruzzz
10-05-2012, 08:55 PM
I'm sorry but sometimes I think KG thinks way to much. From what I've seen of Brown he is not that bad a pass protection.Also Bradshaw will not be here forever at some point you are going to have to trust some else with the pass protection. I mean really KG excuse is that we had to throw the ball more?? We were down by a TD that was it. I personally think he gave up to early on Brown. I'm not saying Bradshaw shouldn't start but at least trust him with the carries and if he is carrying the ball he not pass protecting so.....

Eli TO Shockey
10-05-2012, 08:56 PM
Either they suck at blocking, which is inherently up to coaching (ala their faults) or they really dont and are just giving fluffy answers to excuse themselves of playing favorites

so our backup RB's inability to block is the fault of coaching staff. I see

CowboysSuck
10-05-2012, 08:57 PM
you're right. Lets just let ELI get murdered in the backfield....

TC and KG are protecting their greatest asset. that is all.

You might be right, I'm just annoyed with it. Wilson cant play back there because he cant pass block. Now Brown apparently can't pass block. its just fristrating and I find it hard to imagine that backs like AP in his first year, Trent Richardsons first year, Doug Martin this year, etc. are really that much better at pass blocking than Wilson and Brown that their teams will let them get extended playing time and ours wont. It seems like a cop out

fansince69
10-05-2012, 08:57 PM
so our backup RB's inability to block is the fault of coaching staff. I see

yupp nobody learned him good

Eli TO Shockey
10-05-2012, 08:57 PM
I'm sorry but sometimes I think KG thinks way to much. From what I've seen of Brown he is not that bad a pass protection.Also Bradshaw will not be here forever at some point you are going to have to trust some else with the pass protection. I mean really KG excuse is that we had to throw the ball more?? We were down by a TD that was it. I personally think he gave up to early on Brown. I'm not saying Bradshaw shouldn't start but at least trust him with the carries and if he is carrying the ball he not pass protecting so.....

Look I agree, I want to see brown get more carries too...but not at the expense of Eli. I trust KG and his judgement.

TheEnigma
10-05-2012, 08:58 PM
The only concern I have here with KG is that I hope he doesn't expect Brown or Wilson to be as good at pass protection as Bradshaw is. That is a ridiculously high bar to set and one that most RBs in this league can't even reach. Brown could use a little more improvement but he looks like after another game or two of experience with it, that he would be ready for a larger role in the offense.

Eli TO Shockey
10-05-2012, 08:59 PM
You might be right, I'm just annoyed with it. Wilson cant play back there because he cant pass block. Now Brown apparently can't pass block. its just fristrating and I find it hard to imagine that backs like AP in his first year, Trent Richardsons first year, Doug Martin this year, etc. are really that much better at pass blocking than Wilson and Brown that their teams will let them get extended playing time and ours wont. It seems like a cop out

if Wilson and Brown want more carries....they need to earn it...Eli will not be injured at their expense.

CowboysSuck
10-05-2012, 08:59 PM
I'm sorry but sometimes I think KG thinks way to much. From what I've seen of Brown he is not that bad a pass protection.Also Bradshaw will not be here forever at some point you are going to have to trust some else with the pass protection. I mean really KG excuse is that we had to throw the ball more?? We were down by a TD that was it. I personally think he gave up to early on Brown. I'm not saying Bradshaw shouldn't start but at least trust him with the carries and if he is carrying the ball he not pass protecting so.....

Thank you. I think what KG meant to say was Coughlin told him to go with Bradshaw because he likes him better for no more of a reason other than hes loyal to veterans. simple.

Captain Chaos
10-05-2012, 08:59 PM
Sounds like a coaching problem, time to earn your pay Gilbride....Fix it!

RoanokeFan
10-05-2012, 09:01 PM
im getting fed up with gilbride and coughlin carping about how every back except bradshaw cant block. its ridiculous

You think they're lying?

Eli TO Shockey
10-05-2012, 09:02 PM
Sounds like a coaching problem, time to earn your pay Gilbride....Fix it!

lol. How is Browns below average blocking skills the fault of gilbride. I dont get it.

CowboysSuck
10-05-2012, 09:02 PM
if Wilson and Brown want more carries....they need to earn it...Eli will not be injured at their expense.

I havent seen any specific plays where Brown has completely blown the coverage. Or Wilson for that matter. Have you?

I know what everyone will say "No, but we arent the coaches we dont see these guys in practice and we dont analyze the film as much yada yada yada"
I know...I just would rather see Brown and Wilson get more touches. Kind of like how 5 years ago I was super hyped on Bradshaw and couldnt wait to see him get more touches.

Its just a natural cycle and we should start it sooner than later the way our running game has been going...

BParcells777
10-05-2012, 09:02 PM
"Bradshaw played 58 of the 68 offensive snaps. Brown was in on just nine and had five carries for 14 yards.".................so much for "They are both going to get equal snaps theory"

Sometimes the Giants coaches really want to make you pull your hair out.........they had all kinds of machinations about how Cruz was not ready for prime time too..........they had to be bludgeoned and dragged to starting Cruz by relentless injuries

Eliscruzzz
10-05-2012, 09:03 PM
Look I agree, I want to see brown get more carries too...but not at the expense of Eli. I trust KG and his judgement.Yeah but if your going to throw it I agree Bradshaw should be in there but if your going to run it, let them split the carries. I know Eli sometimes changes the play to pass but at some point you have to chance it.

Eliscruzzz
10-05-2012, 09:03 PM
The only concern I have here with KG is that I hope he doesn't expect Brown or Wilson to be as good at pass protection as Bradshaw is. That is a ridiculously high bar to set and one that most RBs in this league can't even reach. Brown could use a little more improvement but he looks like after another game or two of experience with it, that he would be ready for a larger role in the offense.Exactly ^^^

CowboysSuck
10-05-2012, 09:04 PM
You think they're lying?

No. I just think at this point its worth the gamble to spark our running game. maybe we need to put a TE in to chip on the side of interest...something other than keeping Brown and Wilson to under 5 touches

CowboysSuck
10-05-2012, 09:05 PM
Thanks god a few people agree here, I thought maybe I was going to be the only one.

Buddy333
10-05-2012, 09:05 PM
im getting fed up with gilbride and coughlin carping about how every back except bradshaw cant block. its ridiculousRight. Protecting the QB is so over rated.

CowboysSuck
10-05-2012, 09:09 PM
Ok, you guys got me. I am really forgetting that it is important to protect Eli Manning......



red font

Buddy333
10-05-2012, 09:10 PM
Well then why are you disputing what KG said?

nycisgreat
10-05-2012, 09:11 PM
im getting fed up with gilbride and coughlin carping about how every back except bradshaw cant block. its ridiculous

When Bradshaw got his shot, he would always miss his blocking assignments because he was always too busy looking for a screen pass.

Eliscruzzz
10-05-2012, 09:11 PM
Well then why are you disputing what KG said?lol I think he was kidding Buddy.

Buddy333
10-05-2012, 09:11 PM
I thought he was being sarcastic.

TextureDj
10-05-2012, 09:12 PM
I havent seen any specific plays where Brown has completely blown the coverage. Or Wilson for that matter. Have you?

I know what everyone will say "No, but we arent the coaches we dont see these guys in practice and we dont analyze the film as much yada yada yada"
I know...I just would rather see Brown and Wilson get more touches. Kind of like how 5 years ago I was super hyped on Bradshaw and couldnt wait to see him get more touches.

Its just a natural cycle and we should start it sooner than later the way our running game has been going...

There were a couple of scary whiffs. Dont remember which game they were in. I even feel like I remember one for a sack. All in all e didnt do terrible in protection while Bradshaw was out. It only takes one good whiff though.

CowboysSuck
10-05-2012, 09:13 PM
Ive explained multiple times.

I just dont like the resistance to change. Running game needs a spark.

Bshaw doesnt need to be in for 80%+ of snaps in order for Eli to be adequately protected. TE's. Two-back shotgun sets. Quick passes. Most importantly, just flat out running plays with Brown and Wilson in the game. One can think of many ways to get this done without just sitting back every pass play with bradshaw next to Eli for blocking. Need I go into greater detail?

Buddy333
10-05-2012, 09:14 PM
I remember posting in the game thread about the blocking of Bradshaw. I can't pin point just one, but I remember posting about how good he was at picking up pass rushers. If he's not back there Eli gets sacked multiple times that night. You don't try something different against that team.

CowboysSuck
10-05-2012, 09:14 PM
Although I am decently versed in rocket science, this is far from it.

Buddy333
10-05-2012, 09:15 PM
They passed more tha the threw so yes he did need to be in there more.

CowboysSuck
10-05-2012, 09:16 PM
Bradshaw is a good blocker. But remember, when Eli points out the Mike LB its for the Oline and Bradshaw to set/alter their blocking schemes. Sometimes the line will purposely let someone through on one of the edges if Bradshaw is designed to be there.

giantsfan420
10-05-2012, 09:16 PM
and does anyone remember, vs NO i think a few yrs ago, Bradshaw missed a block and eli got hit, afterwards eli was the most visually angry i've seen and he grabbed bradshaw and gestured what he was supposed to do...

my point is even bradshaw wasnt great right away, he had to go thru a learning process. if ur not 100% confident in brown, start designing more plays that place less emphasis on the back picking up a jailbreaking blitz. theres ways u can work with the protection, i dont really buy the whole "he cant pass protect" excuse...

Eli TO Shockey
10-05-2012, 09:17 PM
Ive explained multiple times.

I just dont like the resistance to change. Running game needs a spark.

Bshaw doesnt need to be in for 80%+ of snaps in order for Eli to be adequately protected. TE's. Two-back shotgun sets. Quick passes. Most importantly, just flat out running plays with Brown and Wilson in the game. One can think of many ways to get this done without just sitting back every pass play with bradshaw next to Eli for blocking. Need I go into greater detail?

I would also like to see both guys get more PT...but I trust the coaching staff....

2 things bug the F out of Coughlin. Guys who fumble, and guys who cant block. If you can't be trusted in the backfield, then you're not gonna see significant playing time. Wilson was set to be the 50/50 guy until he fumbed wk 1. Both guys will see an increased role as time goes on, its just not gonna happen overnight.

Eli TO Shockey
10-05-2012, 09:18 PM
I remember posting in the game thread about the blocking of Bradshaw. I can't pin point just one, but I remember posting about how good he was at picking up pass rushers. If he's not back there Eli gets sacked multiple times that night. You don't try something different against that team.

hes one of the best RB blockers in the NFL.

giantsfan420
10-05-2012, 09:20 PM
There were a couple of scary whiffs. Dont remember which game they were in. I even feel like I remember one for a sack. All in all e didnt do terrible in protection while Bradshaw was out. It only takes one good whiff though.

vs carolina brown had a pretty lousy blitz pickup and the guy got a sack, brown cut him off so it wasnt like a free blindside shot, but the play was negative.

if we arent playing a rb bc we're afraid he'll get eli killed, than thats an issue of the rb not knowing the terminology and checks, bc even if a rb isnt that great at blockiing but he understands the scheme and terms and checks, he can at least get in the way somewhat. if a guy doesnt know that stuff, he just goes out on a pass route when he's supposed to pick up some one, and the blitzer comes free at eli...

i say this bc i saw wilson pass protect in college and he wasnt bad...

Buddy333
10-05-2012, 09:30 PM
hes one of the best RB blockers in the NFL.Exactly. They threw the ball a lot more than they ran the ball. That's why he was playing more. They also haven't run the ball well against the Eagles since the 1st game in 2008. The Eagles love to get after the QB. You don't leave Eli back there to get hit against the Eagles.

CowboysSuck
10-05-2012, 09:31 PM
Imagine if the Giants did this:

Prince and Hosley start
Ojomo and JPP starting DE's
Randle starting #2...#3(with Nicks healthy)
Adrien Robinson gets at least 5-10 plays a game
No Carr, Perrilloux for the #2
Wilson Starts


That would never happen and in some positions isnt the best idea, but I think it would be pretty cool,
you know, see what kind of talent we have sooner rather than later

CowboysSuck
10-05-2012, 09:34 PM
Exactly. They threw the ball a lot more than they ran the ball. That's why he was playing more. They also haven't run the ball well against the Eagles since the 1st game in 2008. The Eagles love to get after the QB. You don't leave Eli back there to get hit against the Eagles.

I can use the same argument. The Eagles get after the QB well...so any RB that isnt extremely well versed in pass blocking isnt going to perform amazing. Also, since we havent run the ball well vs the Eagles since 2008 (which leaves Brahsaw and Jacobs as the two main backs to run against them in these past 4 years) why not go with a fresh look? Maybe Brown or Wilson have a certain skill set that would go after the weaknesses of Eagles Defense?

Ruttiger711
10-05-2012, 09:35 PM
I dont think KG expects Brown to be a perfect blocker... but Im sure he finds completely whiffing on a block unacceptable which Brown did in the Carolina game. It was practically right after they were talking up how Eli hadnt been sacked since the Dallas game.

RoanokeFan
10-05-2012, 09:37 PM
No. I just think at this point its worth the gamble to spark our running game. maybe we need to put a TE in to chip on the side of interest...something other than keeping Brown and Wilson to under 5 touches

But the "gamble" is Eli's ability to stay upright. Worth it?

BParcells777
10-05-2012, 09:39 PM
for the life of me I fail to see how a 113 yd running game does not take considerable pressure off the QB

you do not pin your ears back when you know the ball is being run through your vacated responsibility........well one guy does- Osi

How many sacks and pressures did we get in the second half when everyone was forced to stay home and stop McCoy?

fansince69
10-05-2012, 09:40 PM
But the "gamble" is Eli's ability to stay upright. Worth it?

here we go with logic again

OX1
10-05-2012, 09:49 PM
I would also like to see both guys get more PT...but I trust the coaching staff....

2 things bug the F out of Coughlin. Guys who fumble, and guys who cant block. If you can't be trusted in the backfield, then you're not gonna see significant playing time. Wilson was set to be the 50/50 guy until he fumbed wk 1. Both guys will see an increased role as time goes on, its just not gonna happen overnight.

Great, so play conservative ball straight to last in the division.
Got a gift last year winning div with such a crappy record. Not
going to happen again.

Start running 2 back sets if thats what it takes
to get these other RB's out there. Let Wilson chip and go out to the flats or
take a screen. Get the ball out quick and Eli won't have to worry about a sack.

CowboysSuck
10-05-2012, 09:57 PM
But the "gamble" is Eli's ability to stay upright. Worth it?
I meant gamble as in the running game. I'm saying we dont have to gamble in the pasing game if we employ other techniques which i have already described a few times.

But lets use your gamble as a pretense to another argument. In fact, yes I would like them to gamble. Taking chances and being vulnerable are paramount to unexpected success. EA gambled on Eli. Shoot, I gambled today betting on horses. Taking chances is a part of life and I think the payoff in this case is worth the *possibility* of Eli being pressured 1 or 2 more times a game.

CowboysSuck
10-05-2012, 09:59 PM
just my $.02. At the end of the day I trust, for the most part, what the coaches are doing. As long as I'm entertained I'll gladly take the result. Entertainment is the name of the game after all, isn't it?

RoanokeFan
10-05-2012, 09:59 PM
here we go with logic again

It's a persistent flaw

RoanokeFan
10-05-2012, 10:00 PM
I meant gamble as in the running game. I'm saying we dont have to gamble in the pasing game if we employ other techniques which i have already described a few times.

But lets use your gamble as a pretense to another argument. In fact, yes I would like them to gamble. Taking chances and being vulnerable are paramount to unexpected success. EA gambled on Eli. Shoot, I gambled today betting on horses. Taking chances is a part of life and I think the payoff in this case is worth the *possibility* of Eli being pressured 1 or 2 more times a game.

So you signal the defense when Brown is in because they know it's not a pass play?

And your willingness to expose Eli, the franchise, to injury is mind boggling to me. He is already under pressure on most pass plays.

Buddy333
10-05-2012, 10:24 PM
I can use the same argument. The Eagles get after the QB well...so any RB that isnt extremely well versed in pass blocking isnt going to perform amazing. Also, since we havent run the ball well vs the Eagles since 2008 (which leaves Brahsaw and Jacobs as the two main backs to run against them in these past 4 years) why not go with a fresh look? Maybe Brown or Wilson have a certain skill set that would go after the weaknesses of Eagles Defense?I'll just have to trust the 2 time Super Bowl winning coaching staff. I also don't think it's that hard o understand. Bad OL goes against great pass rushing DL and franchise QB is at risk. They also threw he ball a lot more because they are not the Giants of the past. They are a pass 1st team now. Using Bradshaw to ensure the safety of Eli was the right move. Further more, be careful what you wish for. I like Brown, but why is he all of a sudden the answer? Is it because he ran well on Tampa when the Giants where trailing? Or was it because he ran well against a bad Panthers team?

BParcells777
10-05-2012, 10:27 PM
This is all moot.......Coughlin will run Bradshaw until his foot falls off

Why waste time discussing it?

Buddy333
10-05-2012, 10:29 PM
So you think TC doesn't want to win?

ShakeandBake
10-05-2012, 10:31 PM
I'll just have to trust the 2 time Super Bowl winning coaching staff. I also don't think it's that hard o understand. Bad OL goes against great pass rushing DL and franchise QB is at risk. They also threw he ball a lot more because they are not the Giants of the past. They are a pass 1st team now. Using Bradshaw to ensure the safety of Eli was the right move. Further more, be careful what you wish for. I like Brown, but why is he all of a sudden the answer? Is it because he ran well on Tampa when the Giants where trailing? Or was it because he ran well against a bad Panthers team?

We are lucky that somehow Eli did not get sacked last game IIRC. We should look into getting him that Kevlar padding Vick has if our o-line keeps playing like garbage, Eli is bound to get roughed up at some point.

BParcells777
10-05-2012, 10:38 PM
So you think TC doesn't want to win?

he wants to win within his boundries

he will not violate his pecking order in order to win..........the only way to infuse new talent is injuries, unsigned free agents, and retirements

Buddy333
10-05-2012, 10:45 PM
He has won 2 of the last 5 Super Bowls. I think he knows what he is doing.

BParcells777
10-05-2012, 10:49 PM
well he wont win this one if he stubbornly refuses to replace mr 37 yds rushing per game...........Elis good.....hes not that good
and the lack of a rushing game means too much time on the field for our defense

Buddy333
10-05-2012, 10:55 PM
Didn't they win last year with a horrible running game?

BParcells777
10-05-2012, 10:59 PM
There is a reason Vince Lombardi called his book "Run to daylight"...........not "Pass to Daylight"

BParcells777
10-05-2012, 11:01 PM
Didn't they win last year with a horrible running game?

Once we got to the last 6 games of the season the running game jumped to one of the best in the NFL

Rat_bastich
10-05-2012, 11:03 PM
Didn't they win last year with a horrible running game?

Yes, but eventually that time is going to run out. Live by the sword and die by the sword. They need to establish an effective running game at some point or eventually they will peter out. Doesn't mean a running game where they are game breakers but a game they will have to respect.

RoanokeFan
10-05-2012, 11:29 PM
Great, so play conservative ball straight to last in the division. Got a gift last year winning div with such a crappy record. Not going to happen again. Start running 2 back sets if thats what it takes to get these other RB's out there. Let Wilson chip and go out to the flats or take a screen. Get the ball out quick and Eli won't have to worry about a sack. Wilson hasn't shown he can catch a pass out of the backfield yet

BParcells777
10-05-2012, 11:38 PM
Wilson hasn't shown he can catch a pass out of the backfield yet

and......

Roger Craig only caught 16 in college and went on to become the most prolific NFL receiver out of the backfield in its history

You have to throw a few his way to make this determination.....he caught quite a few in college

I'm just trying to see if we can get him in to space from the LOS......its worth a try

Buddy333
10-05-2012, 11:41 PM
He also dropped a couple so far.

DandyDon
10-05-2012, 11:45 PM
I would also like to see both guys get more PT...but I trust the coaching staff....

2 things bug the F out of Coughlin. Guys who fumble, and guys who cant block. If you can't be trusted in the backfield, then you're not gonna see significant playing time. Wilson was set to be the 50/50 guy until he fumbed wk 1. Both guys will see an increased role as time goes on, its just not gonna happen overnight.

I agree 100%. And like it or not, protecting Eli is HUGE for this team.

I also would like to see Brown more, but I think especially against a D like the egals you have to go with the coach's decisions. I bet you see him a lot more this week.

giantsfan420
10-06-2012, 12:25 AM
Wilson hasn't shown he can catch a pass out of the backfield yet

i dunno bout that, he hasnt really had an attempt in the backfield. that shovel play was more like a play action screen at the LOS...he did have that real nice reception vs chicago in the preseason. besides those, he's had a couple drops but iirc, when he was lined up out wide...

its kinda funny. its like the chicken or the egg, some people want a rb to get the majority of carries to see what they can produce while others are saying they want to see him get 100 yds vs a good defense before they give him the majority of the carries. like lol, the only way a rb is gonna catch passes out of the backfield, or run for 100 yds, is if u give em a chance. imo we've give bradshaw tons of chances/opportunities...and he hasnt won everyone over, and thats bc of his play not winning everyone over...maybe its time someone else get the shot bradshaw got

joemorrisforprez
10-06-2012, 02:38 AM
This article is a bunch of bull****. Gilbride has been ****ting the bed against the Eagles since Andre Brown was in high school.

1-8 with Bradshaw against the Eagles.....give me break.

Here's the newsflash: KEVIN GILBRIDE STINKS AGAINST THE EAGLES.

OX1
10-06-2012, 06:00 AM
Wilson hasn't shown he can catch a pass out of the backfield yet

So what. The upside is huge when he gets one in space. It's not like he can't catch.
Had no problem getting kickoffs and that is when you have to also keep an eye
on getting hammered @ full speed.

This is a player we have to develop as soon as possible. A running game can help
solve our d rotation issue big time..........

OX1
10-06-2012, 06:09 AM
i dunno bout that, he hasnt really had an attempt in the backfield. that shovel play was more like a play action screen at the LOS...he did have that real nice reception vs chicago in the preseason. besides those, he's had a couple drops but iirc, when he was lined up out wide...

its kinda funny. its like the chicken or the egg, some people want a rb to get the majority of carries to see what they can produce while others are saying they want to see him get 100 yds vs a good defense before they give him the majority of the carries. like lol, the only way a rb is gonna catch passes out of the backfield, or run for 100 yds, is if u give em a chance. imo we've give bradshaw tons of chances/opportunities...and he hasnt won everyone over, and thats bc of his play not winning everyone over...maybe its time someone else get the shot bradshaw got

Bradshaw got a shot when our O-line wasn't crap. Imagine Wilson with that line.
The only way your winning with all these injuries is to not to play conservative/scared.
If we had everyone healthy, then play their game, but we don't. Need to figure
out how to mix it up.

RoanokeFan
10-06-2012, 06:47 AM
and......

Roger Craig only caught 16 in college and went on to become the most prolific NFL receiver out of the backfield in its history

You have to throw a few his way to make this determination.....he caught quite a few in college

I'm just trying to see if we can get him in to space from the LOS......its worth a try


I agree with you and there's a time and a place for that. He's had limited chances because he has fumbled and dropped a pass. He's a rookie, he will be a great back for us when he develops

RoanokeFan
10-06-2012, 06:49 AM
i dunno bout that, he hasnt really had an attempt in the backfield. that shovel play was more like a play action screen at the LOS...he did have that real nice reception vs chicago in the preseason. besides those, he's had a couple drops but iirc, when he was lined up out wide...

its kinda funny. its like the chicken or the egg, some people want a rb to get the majority of carries to see what they can produce while others are saying they want to see him get 100 yds vs a good defense before they give him the majority of the carries. like lol, the only way a rb is gonna catch passes out of the backfield, or run for 100 yds, is if u give em a chance. imo we've give bradshaw tons of chances/opportunities...and he hasnt won everyone over, and thats bc of his play not winning everyone over...maybe its time someone else get the shot bradshaw got

True and that's been Brown so far.

I Bleed Blue
10-06-2012, 09:15 AM
Either they suck at blocking, which is inherently up to coaching (ala their faults) or they really dont and are just giving fluffy answers to excuse themselves of playing favorites

Totally agree. Coughlin needs to do what's best for team and not someone's ego.

BeatYale
10-06-2012, 11:52 AM
You guys are funny. It's the coaches fault? How so? They aren't covering pass protection with the RB's in practice? The physical aspect of it is easier for them to coach because they can watch the guy block in practice and let him know what he's doing wrong technique wise. The mental stuff, like knowing the playbook and understanding blitz pick up etc. is more on the player's ability to recognize what's going happening on the other side of the LOS.

Fans are being made aware of this now, but I'm pretty sure the owners and Reese know about this stuff from interacting with coaches through out the day-to-day team activities. So if our 100 million dollar QB gets hurt because of a blown assignment by a work-in-progress RB, Coughlin will take a lot of heat and look incompetent. I'm sure the staff wants Brown on the field as much as possible because he has been an efficient runner, but he's gotta help himself get on the field more.

RoanokeFan
10-06-2012, 12:13 PM
You guys are funny. It's the coaches fault? How so? They aren't covering pass protection with the RB's in practice? The physical aspect of it is easier for them to coach because they can watch the guy block in practice and let him know what he's doing wrong technique wise. The mental stuff, like knowing the playbook and understanding blitz pick up etc. is more on the player's ability to recognize what's going happening on the other side of the LOS.

Fans are being made aware of this now, but I'm pretty sure the owners and Reese know about this stuff from interacting with coaches through out the day-to-day team activities. So if our 100 million dollar QB gets hurt because of a blown assignment by a work-in-progress RB, Coughlin will take a lot of heat and look incompetent. I'm sure the staff wants Brown on the field as much as possible because he has been an efficient runner, but he's gotta help himself get on the field more.

Now you're just being silly. To think the coaches could know anything more than we fans is, well just silly. :rolleyes:

Both Wilson and Brown have acknowledged they have to do better and .in Wilson's case, he's a rookie. There is a reason Brown has been on a number of teams without latching on. I like both of them and I think, at this moment in time, Brown has proven he can run with the ball without fumbling. Wilson has given us a return game we haven't seen since Jesus was a corporal. To say they're not being used is inaccurate. The have talents that the coaches are putting to use as they develop their shortcomings.

And for some to suggest that the coaches placing a high priority on protecting Eli is bad planning, aren't old enough to remember the truly dark days of this franchise.

joemorrisforprez
10-06-2012, 12:58 PM
The best offensive performances - both rushing and passing - came with Andre Brown in the backfield.

I'm not sure what's been going on in practices, but a 2-0 record with Bradshaw out of the game tells me the pass protection held up.

Frankly, I think Gilbride helped to lose this game.....but again, as his record shows, he is awful against the Eagles. Last week I felt like I was watching the 2008 Playoffs

The Giants are not going to win tomorrow if they bring the same lousy offensive gameplan in against the Browns that they brought against the Eagles.

Fortunately, the game is at home....so if Brown is mothballed again, and the running game blows again, Gilbride will be hearing it from the fans.

RoanokeFan
10-06-2012, 01:50 PM
The best offensive performances - both rushing and passing - came with Andre Brown in the backfield.

I'm not sure what's been going on in practices, but a 2-0 record with Bradshaw out of the game tells me the pass protection held up.

Frankly, I think Gilbride helped to lose this game.....but again, as his record shows, he is awful against the Eagles. Last week I felt like I was watching the 2008 Playoffs

The Giants are not going to win tomorrow if they bring the same lousy offensive gameplan in against the Browns that they brought against the Eagles.

Fortunately, the game is at home....so if Brown is mothballed again, and the running game blows again, Gilbride will be hearing it from the fans.


As he does after every game

Buddy333
10-06-2012, 01:55 PM
Lol. I can't believe this is still going on. This is how it would be on every team in the league, even in college. If a RB can not block he will not get on the field as much. It's that simple. The Giants where playing the best pass rush in the NFL and you want them to allow guys who have good upside play while the franchise QB gets lit up? This is comical. Oh, and they still could have won the game. There where plenty of things that went wrong that game and protecting Eli was not one of them.

RoanokeFan
10-06-2012, 02:00 PM
Lol. I can't believe this is still going on. This is how it would be on every team in the league, even in college. If a RB can not block he will not get on the field as much. It's that simple. The Giants where playing the best pass rush in the NFL and you want them to allow guys who have good upside play while the franchise QB gets lit up? This is comical. Oh, and they still could have won the game. There where plenty of things that went wrong that game and protecting Eli was not one of them.

I posted another article in which Gilbride gives his thoughts on Nicks, Randle, and the running game. Just some insight into the thought process.

SackingMyths
10-06-2012, 02:27 PM
I still can't believe how much overreacting there is to Andre's game against Carolina. He had a huge game, but it was against a team with a bottom-5 Run defense and pass rush. (Why doesn't that get taken into account?) And you know he had some extra juice playing in front of his hometown and family on a national stage. The coaches didn't overreact to it -- maybe we shouldn't either.

This over-inflated impressiveness of his performance -- as if he manhandled the Steel Curtain -- is just out of control. Carolina just let the extremely slow-footed (and that's generous) Michael Turner do this to them last week:

Rush: 13-103-7.9 YPC
AND
Receiving: 3-68-1TD (with a career best 60-yard catch and run...pathetic)

Carolina's D is bad. REALLY BAD. They've been making every running back look like a HOFer for the past 3 years.

I'm sure if the coaches don't trust Brown as much as Bradshaw in pass pro, it's probably because he's missed some assignments in practice, and they don't fully trust him...yet. Two SB wins and we still don't trust that the coaching staff knows what they're doing. What's it gonna take?

If Eli goes down, you can put Barry Sanders in his prime back there and we'd still be competing with the Jets for top pick in the draft. You'd be "robbing Peter to pay Paul" by having a marginal improvement in rushing at the potential expense of protecting our most important commodity.

That said, I'm thinking he'll get a fair amount of carries tomorrow against CLE where pass rush isn't as big an issue, and ideally, we'll have a lead and not in shotgun all game.

jintsfan666
10-06-2012, 02:31 PM
I would also like to see both guys get more PT...but I trust the coaching staff....

2 things bug the F out of Coughlin. Guys who fumble, and guys who cant block. If you can't be trusted in the backfield, then you're not gonna see significant playing time. Wilson was set to be the 50/50 guy until he fumbed wk 1. Both guys will see an increased role as time goes on, its just not gonna happen overnight.

Cool. Then don't expect to see us establish a running game overnight.

joemorrisforprez
10-06-2012, 03:30 PM
Good article in Pro Football Weekly on getting Brown more work...

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/10/01/giants-rb-brown-merits-more-work



Should the Giants give more carries to Andre Brown and fewer to Ahmad Bradshaw? With Bradshaw back in the lineup in Week Four against the Eagles following the neck injury he suffered against the Buccaneers in Week Two, he was held to 39 yards on 13 carries. Bradshaw’s long run of the game was nine yards, and he had six rushes of two yards or fewer. It’s a small sample size — one week back from a scary injury — but the feeling around the Giants after their loss to the Eagles is that Brown, the catalyst in Weeks Two and Three, could get more opportunities......

RoanokeFan
10-06-2012, 04:02 PM
Good article in Pro Football Weekly on getting Brown more work...

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/10/01/giants-rb-brown-merits-more-work

I'm with them in theory, but still defer to the coaching staff.

jomo
10-06-2012, 04:24 PM
I am very late to this thread but this one is easily solved. Brown needs to block better. He is plenty physical. He just needs to sharpen his technique a little and his recognition alot. Go Blue!!

Ruttiger711
10-06-2012, 04:59 PM
I still can't believe how much overreacting there is to Andre's game against Carolina. He had a huge game, but it was against a team with a bottom-5 Run defense and pass rush. (Why doesn't that get taken into account?) And you know he had some extra juice playing in front of his hometown and family on a national stage. The coaches didn't overreact to it -- maybe we shouldn't either.

This over-inflated impressiveness of his performance -- as if he manhandled the Steel Curtain -- is just out of control. Carolina just let the extremely slow-footed (and that's generous) Michael Turner do this to them last week:

Rush: 13-103-7.9 YPC
AND
Receiving: 3-68-1TD (with a career best 60-yard catch and run...pathetic)

Carolina's D is bad. REALLY BAD. They've been making every running back look like a HOFer for the past 3 years.

I'm sure if the coaches don't trust Brown as much as Bradshaw in pass pro, it's probably because he's missed some assignments in practice, and they don't fully trust him...yet. Two SB wins and we still don't trust that the coaching staff knows what they're doing. What's it gonna take?

If Eli goes down, you can put Barry Sanders in his prime back there and we'd still be competing with the Jets for top pick in the draft. You'd be "robbing Peter to pay Paul" by having a marginal improvement in rushing at the potential expense of protecting our most important commodity.

That said, I'm thinking he'll get a fair amount of carries tomorrow against CLE where pass rush isn't as big an issue, and ideally, we'll have a lead and not in shotgun all game.

I brought up Turner and Carolina's 134 rush yds allowed per game to all the "anti-brads" and failed to get a response. Turner is a decent back who put up career numbers on CAR.

The same folks who knock Bradshaws TB performance before he had to leave the game (AFTER 5 CARRIES) give Brown a pass in in the Eagles game because he didn't get to touch the ball as much.

RoanokeFan
10-06-2012, 05:05 PM
I am very late to this thread but this one is easily solved. Brown needs to block better. He is plenty physical. He just needs to sharpen his technique a little and his recognition alot. Go Blue!! So wise for such a young man :)

BParcells777
10-06-2012, 05:12 PM
I dont remember Eli being under seige the 6 straight Qtrs that Brown played.........I must be losing my marbles

2 of those were against TB who has a pretty decent D

Ok Ok I get it.....Brown can't block.....or Brown has bad blocking technique.....Guess what? Bradshaw has very bad running technique, he is emulating the great departed and ever in the tub- Brandon Jacobs.....no patience, no vision, runing right into his own blockers

BlueBlitzer
10-06-2012, 05:42 PM
a 100 + yards would do the trick.

joemorrisforprez
10-06-2012, 06:09 PM
I'd love to see it next week, but fat chance..... apparently Bradshaw is the second coming of Anthony Munoz....so they'll stick with the magic that has given us an 0-2 NFC East record.

Eli TO Shockey
10-06-2012, 06:18 PM
he will play. If for any reason we fall behind and rely on Eli to throw the ball, AB #1 will be in the backfield. he needs to earn the trust of coaches.

CowboysSuck
10-06-2012, 06:23 PM
unless bradhsaw breaks his neck, Brown will not see more than 6 or 7 carries. Ask Tom why, maybe he will give you a logical answer...but likely he wont.

BParcells777
10-06-2012, 06:25 PM
I'd love to see it next week, but fat chance..... apparently Bradshaw is the second coming of Anthony Munoz....so they'll stick with the magic that has given us an 0-2 NFC East record.

LOL .........that was hillarious

I see Bradshaw coming out when his foot falls off........literally you would have to see a foot in a shoe sitting on the field before Brown plays any significant minutes again

joemorrisforprez
10-06-2012, 06:26 PM
I still can't believe how much overreacting there is to Andre's game against Carolina. He had a huge game, but it was against a team with a bottom-5 Run defense and pass rush. (Why doesn't that get taken into account?) And you know he had some extra juice playing in front of his hometown and family on a national stage. The coaches didn't overreact to it -- maybe we shouldn't either.

This over-inflated impressiveness of his performance -- as if he manhandled the Steel Curtain -- is just out of control. Carolina just let the extremely slow-footed (and that's generous) Michael Turner do this to them last week:

Rush: 13-103-7.9 YPC
AND
Receiving: 3-68-1TD (with a career best 60-yard catch and run...pathetic)

Carolina's D is bad. REALLY BAD. They've been making every running back look like a HOFer for the past 3 years.

I'm sure if the coaches don't trust Brown as much as Bradshaw in pass pro, it's probably because he's missed some assignments in practice, and they don't fully trust him...yet. Two SB wins and we still don't trust that the coaching staff knows what they're doing. What's it gonna take?

If Eli goes down, you can put Barry Sanders in his prime back there and we'd still be competing with the Jets for top pick in the draft. You'd be "robbing Peter to pay Paul" by having a marginal improvement in rushing at the potential expense of protecting our most important commodity.

That said, I'm thinking he'll get a fair amount of carries tomorrow against CLE where pass rush isn't as big an issue, and ideally, we'll have a lead and not in shotgun all game.

I don't think you can compare Michael Turner to Ahmad Bradshaw.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/5679/michael-turner

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/10693/ahmad-bradshaw

For one thing, Turner uses his blockers. For another thing, the stats say it's not a comparison.....

Michael Turner had 1,300 yards in 2011.....that's about twice what Bradshaw had.

Over the last 4 seasons, Turners has gone over 1000 yards 3 times. .....averaging 1300+ yards per season.
Over the last 4 seasons, Bradshaw has gone over 1000 yards 1 time..... averageing 750+ yards per season.

Michael Turner is averaging 4.7 yards per carry this season.....his yards/carry is better this season than last. Bradshaw is following a subpar 2011 with a worse 2012. Right now, Bradshaw is averaging 3.7 yards per carry....1 yard less than Turner per attempt.

In fact, Bradshaws yards/carry has dropped every season since his rookie year. Some of that is understandable....he went from a change of pace back to a featured back (which was a mistake, IMHO). But a big part of that is Bradhshaw has been grinding down with wear and tear.

The sooner they cut his workload, the better.

BParcells777
10-06-2012, 06:26 PM
also we have 2 Browns......both impact players......the other one will be out there

joemorrisforprez
10-06-2012, 06:31 PM
LOL .........that was hillarious

I see Bradshaw coming out when his foot falls off........literally you would have to see a foot in a shoe sitting on the field before Brown plays any significant minutes again


I don't understand the bromance that Killdrive has for Bradshaw.......maybe he sees Andre Brown, and gets Brandon Jacob flashback.

But I'm convinced that Bradshaw would start even if he needed a Rascal to get out of the tunnel.

BParcells777
10-06-2012, 07:52 PM
Bradshaw plays his heart out.......I cannot fault his effort
I can fault his running technique, and unfortuantley Wilson makes the exact same mistakes Bradshaw does
Brown has patience and vision

RoanokeFan
10-06-2012, 08:05 PM
unless bradhsaw breaks his neck, Brown will not see more than 6 or 7 carries. Ask Tom why, maybe he will give you a logical answer...but likely he wont.

Gilbride answered your question in a recent interview that was posted here earlier today..

SackingMyths
10-06-2012, 08:40 PM
Michael Turner is averaging 4.7 yards per carry this season.....his yards/carry is better this season than last. B

Turner's stats are inflated by the CAR game--just like Brown's. Turner has 154 yards on 42 carries (3.66 YPC) if you remove his game against Carolina. And that's my whole point. Carolina makes every RB look better than usual, as they did for Brown.

I mean, how do we know that Bradshaw wouldn't have had a monster game and looked great against Carolina?

I have nothing against Andre. I just don't agree with all the love floating around and don't feel he's this slam dunk talent that would magically improve our rushing game to the point where Ahmad's superior ability as a pass protector can be so easily dismissed.

I trust what the coaches think they do/don't have in him. If there's anybody that would give this running game a shot in the arm it's Wilson. But sadly, they trust him even less than Brown.

It's a long season, though and I'm sure we both just want what's best for the team. We'll see what happens...

Buddy333
10-06-2012, 08:42 PM
What would a 2 time Super Bowl winning coaching staff know anyway? Apparently Brown is the next coming of Barry Sanders. Pass protection for a pass heavy offense is over rated anyway.

RoanokeFan
10-06-2012, 08:45 PM
What would a 2 time Super Bowl winning coaching staff know anyway? Apparently Brown is the next coming of Barry Sanders. Pass protection for a pass heavy offense is over rated anyway.

And all this time I was thinking......

giantsfan420
10-06-2012, 08:55 PM
Turner's stats are inflated by the CAR game--just like Brown's. Turner has 154 yards on 42 carries (3.66 YPC) if you remove his game against Carolina. And that's my whole point. Carolina makes every RB look better than usual, as they did for Brown.

I mean, how do we know that Bradshaw wouldn't have had a monster game and looked great against Carolina?

I have nothing against Andre. I just don't agree with all the love floating around and don't feel he's this slam dunk talent that would magically improve our rushing game to the point where Ahmad's superior ability as a pass protector can be so easily dismissed.

I trust what the coaches think they do/don't have in him. If there's anybody that would give this running game a shot in the arm it's Wilson. But sadly, they trust him even less than Brown.

It's a long season, though and I'm sure we both just want what's best for the team. We'll see what happens...
what do u attribute his success vs tb to then? theyre 3rd in run d

ShakeandBake
10-06-2012, 09:10 PM
what do u attribute his success vs tb to then? theyre 3rd in run d

71 yards on the ground from Brown vs 510 in the air, I wouldn't call Andre Brown's game against Tampa a success.

Buddy333
10-06-2012, 09:14 PM
They where also trailing Tampa for a good portion of that game. Tampa wasn't worried about the run at that point. The Panthers are bad team.

BParcells777
10-06-2012, 09:27 PM
Gilbride answered your question in a recent interview that was posted here earlier today..

Did you read it? Gilbride actualy said "Bradshaw did not want to come out because of the situation" who died and appointed Ahmad the HC or OC?
Of course, "he" didnt want to come out.......I could not believe my eyes whe I read that. He does not have the stats to be making such pronouncements.

Can you imagine if Joe McCarthy listened to Wally Pip when he returned.........Lou Gehrig might have spent half his career on the bench.

Its been a long long time since Ahmad had a 100 yd game........2 seasons I believe. He is a good 3rd down back, or 4th Qtr replacement.....Brown is a horse.

moosedrool
10-06-2012, 10:00 PM
"Most impressive with Brown was how he ran through contact and dragged would-be
tacklers with him for additional yards."

Something Bradshaw can't do.

miked1958
10-06-2012, 10:10 PM
I'd love to see it next week, but fat chance..... apparently Bradshaw is the second coming of Anthony Munoz....so they'll stick with the magic that has given us an 0-2 NFC East record.Numbers don't lie..... 2-0 with brown in there and 0-2 with bradshaw

NorwoodBlue
10-06-2012, 10:13 PM
Let's see, Brown was in for ten plays, half of which were running plays, so somewhere along the line Gibride decides that Brown can't pass block even though he did a good job pass blocking in both the Tampa game and the Carolina game. For the record, Eli was not sacked at all in the Tampa game, even though we were playing from behind and Tampa could rush every play. He was sacked only once during the Carolina game, and I don't know who was responsile for that sack. When Bradshaw was assigned with protecting him in Philadelphia he didn't get sacked either. So we have one sack in three games, two of which Brown played a featured role in, and, out of the blue, pass protection is the key, deciding issue in who our running back should be? I think Gilbride is full of crap on this one, period. This is the same old resistance to change that we've seen from Gilbride and Coughlin forever. They had some momentum in the running game and threw it out the window for bull crap reasons. The best thing we coud have done at the Eagles was to run right over them, between the tackles. Their line is small, and they are very succeptible to that approach. Instead we go with Ahmad Cutbackshaw, and the running game never got going. Even Collinsworth pointed out the Cutbackshaw seldom follows his blockers and hits the hole, he's ALWAYS looking to take the play outside.

I bet dollars to donuts that Deihl steps right back in when he comes back too. Even though it looks pretty evident that there are better lineman playing right now.

I think the coaching staff out thought themselves Sunday night, and they lost the game, not the team. Eli's interception in the endzone didn't help; but, the coaching staff was doing some weird stuff in the Eagles game. But now, Gilbride has justified why he's going to go with Bradshaw, and sit Brown on the bench. I hope he'll remember we're 2-0 with Brown, and 0-2 with Cutbackshaw.

MikeyMike01
10-06-2012, 10:43 PM
im getting fed up with gilbride and coughlin carping about how every back except bradshaw cant block. its ridiculous

Unfortunately I think we're stuck with these two for a while.

BParcells777
10-06-2012, 10:53 PM
71 yards on the ground from Brown vs 510 in the air, I wouldn't call Andre Brown's game against Tampa a success.

Vinny Lombardi said if you cannot run you cannot win a title........with rare exceptions that holds true today

You live by the pass you die by the pass.........ask Bill Bellicheck our little slave

Buddy333
10-06-2012, 10:54 PM
Clueless 2 time Super Bowl winning coaches. Protecting your franchise QB is so over rated. Put in Brown and the rookie.

joemorrisforprez
10-06-2012, 11:51 PM
Looks like Brown should have more opportunities tomorrow.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000077611/article/andre-brown-could-see-more-snaps-for-new-york-giants?module=HP11_headline_stack



NFL Network's Kimberly Jones reported that Andre Brown will play against Cleveland and coach Tom Coughlin will ride the hot hand. That falls in line with what Coughlin planned before last week's loss to the Philadelphia Eagles, but Brown saw only nine snaps in that game.

The team has been concerned about Brown's pass protection, but coaches love his burst and were encouraged by his 113-yard outing against the Carolina Panthers in Week 3. Coughlin has always enjoyed hitting defenses with a variety of backs, and Brown has come out of nowhere to emerge as Bradshaw's able helper......

moosedrool
10-06-2012, 11:53 PM
Brown limped off with about 6 minutes to play in the third quarter. That could have been the reason he didn't get more carries.

joemorrisforprez
10-07-2012, 12:33 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000077611/article/andre-brown-could-see-more-snaps-for-new-york-giants?module=HP11_headline_stack



.....NFL Network's Kimberly Jones reported that Andre Brown will play against Cleveland and coach Tom Coughlin will ride the hot hand. That falls in line with what Coughlin planned before last week's loss to the Philadelphia Eagles, but Brown saw only nine snaps in that game.

The team has been concerned about Brown's pass protection, but coaches love his burst and were encouraged by his 113-yard outing against the Carolina Panthers in Week 3. Coughlin has always enjoyed hitting defenses with a variety of backs, and Brown has come out of nowhere to emerge as Bradshaw's able helper....

Antwuan
10-07-2012, 12:36 AM
Nice!

Moke
10-07-2012, 12:38 AM
I'm glad. I'd still like to see if Bradshaw can still do it.... We'll see.

Antwuan
10-07-2012, 12:46 AM
I'm glad. I'd still like to see if Bradshaw can still do it.... We'll see.

What are your impressions on Andre Brown so far?

Moke
10-07-2012, 12:48 AM
I've been an Andre Brown supporter for awhile now. When we had DJ Ware picked over him, I was still an Andre fan.

I think he's done a heck of a job and he's got the potential to be a very nice integrated part of the giants offense this year.

giantsfan420
10-07-2012, 12:52 AM
TC said the same thing before the philly game iirc...

SackingMyths
10-07-2012, 12:54 AM
In a game where we can dictate the flow of the game, I'd prefer to see Andre get equal carries -- if not the majority.

But against a fierce pass rush like Philly, I had no problem with Ahmad playing more. So many people are making that out to be the sole reason why we lost...as if the gap in talent is so wide that Andre would've gashed Philly. I, for one, didn't see a ton of running room for anybody.

Reality: The eagles are actually a good team (vomit) and when you're missing your difference-making, star WR in a division game on the road, that can be the difference between two otherwise very evenly matched teams. If Nicks is back for the rematch we should give them the kind of beatdown we've owed them for years.

The coaches aren't dumb, though. They did what they felt was necessary and best for the team.

What if Brown had played more but then Eli got smacked around all night and ended up hurt? Is THAT worth the potential increase in rushing success? The coaches sure didn't think so and frankly, they've earned MY trust at this point (How many rings will it take before they earn yours?)

If the best pure runner played regardless of what else they bring to the table then neither AB would get the lion's share of carries...Wilson would.

But until Brown and Wilson earn the coaches' full trust, might as well get used to seeing Ahmad.

Hessian
10-07-2012, 02:36 AM
There is just no question that AB is the best back atm, if you are missing blocking assignments in PRACTICE then you do not deserve to be on the field, period. When Wilson wins out the position we'll all be happy, Brown is not the answer lol. I like the kid but cmon, lets count the teams that bounced him. Patience is a ****ing virtue, learn it.

Rat_bastich
10-07-2012, 03:07 AM
Looks like Brown should have more opportunities tomorrow.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000077611/article/andre-brown-could-see-more-snaps-for-new-york-giants?module=HP11_headline_stack

Read that and was thinking that last week that Coughlin was giving Bradshaw a chance to prove why he should remain the number one. I seriously think they begin to implement more Brown into the run plays. He seems more efficient in his runs, getting almost 2 more yards per carry than Bradshaw.

I also think people are overrating Bradhaw's ability to block and that Brown is not as far a drop off as some believe. Brown has the bigger body and all he has to do is impede a rushers movement, not totally lock up on one. Yeah, I know KG says it but still I don't think it is as much of a drop off as said.

BlueSanta
10-07-2012, 03:11 AM
Vinny Lombardi said if you cannot run you cannot win a title........with rare exceptions that holds true today

You live by the pass you die by the pass.........ask Bill Bellicheck our little slave

I am not disagreeing that our run game needs to improve a great deal.

However, the league is different now. If Vinny were Still around he would be saying "if you cannot pass, you cannot win"

Fact is since the rules were changed a few years ago this league has been dominated by passing teams and the importance of running has diminished. Personaly, I do not like it this way and wish they league would reconsider some of their new rules favoring passing offenses.

Captain Chaos
10-07-2012, 07:14 AM
We'll see what happens, our O line isn't doing that well and we are playing a pretty darn good front 7...

Redeyejedi
10-07-2012, 08:32 AM
Coaches u sure? U dont think 9 snaps was enough? No, lets give it to Bradshaw all day who has never had a good day running against the eagles

RoanokeFan
10-07-2012, 08:46 AM
Coaches u sure? U dont think 9 snaps was enough? No, lets give it to Bradshaw all day who has never had a good day running against the eagles

Somebody poop in your Cheerios? :confused:

giantsfan420
10-07-2012, 08:48 AM
Coaches u sure? U dont think 9 snaps was enough? No, lets give it to Bradshaw all day who has never had a good day running against the eagles
IIRC, he had a good game @ philly last year...

Redeyejedi
10-07-2012, 08:50 AM
Somebody poop in your Cheerios? :confused:I rewatched the Eagle game this morning fing pissed off. They had that game won and everything broke down in the last few minutes. I dont understand why everything goes wrong against that team late in games

Redeyejedi
10-07-2012, 08:52 AM
IIRC, he had a good game @ philly last year...Yeah your right he is 1 for 7

giantsfan420
10-07-2012, 09:00 AM
Yeah your right he is 1 for 7

well i wasnt really right as much as it was you were wrong...just playing around. yeah 1 outta 7 but he did have that 1...IIRC he also had a good game vs them a few yrs ago

Toadofsteel
10-07-2012, 09:00 AM
IIRC, he had a good game @ philly last year...

That was Jacobs...

nycisgreat
10-07-2012, 10:08 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000077611/article/andre-brown-could-see-more-snaps-for-new-york-giants?module=HP11_headline_stack

I am glad that they are going to give him an opportunity. Bradshaw had the same issue along with fumbling issues when he first got his opportunity.

BParcells777
10-07-2012, 10:19 AM
i'll always go with the balanced attack
you can win by the pass but few to none become champs that way

brown gives us the best balance

brad
10-07-2012, 10:20 AM
Bradshaw has always done better when he has another back in there to take some of the carries, and Brown has earned the opportunity to get more. I just hope the situation allows them to give him more playing time to give us a true head to head comparison of what he can do compared to what Bradshaw can do against the same defense.

appodictic
10-07-2012, 11:33 AM
All I have to say is "would all of your Andre Brown fan like some magic beans?" I have some for sale good value. I thought David Wilson was RJ3. Real Jesus 3 with the way you guys were talking him up after his pre-season carries. There must have been 40 threads about how Wilson is going to take bradshaws job because of a handfull of nice runs. Now we have moved onto RJ4 aka Andrea brown. After a come from behind win against a team the readskins flat out dominated, and a game against the Panthers who are generally a bad team you guys all switched religions. You have left the first church of Wilson to join the Browntology.

News flash! You can not run behind a bad o-line. Example Chris Johnson. No injuries, no way he "lost a step". His line just does not get it done and he has bad games. Suddenly they get their blocking right and he rushes for 150.

Also the reason Brown did not get many carries in philly is he game out limping, so don't try to go point out he is more bigger and durable.

FlyingTruck
10-07-2012, 11:37 AM
LOL can't block. He had one back block that I remember. Bradshaw has been sucking lately as a RB. But hey! He can block so let's play him more.

appodictic
10-07-2012, 11:40 AM
LOL can't block. He had one back block that I remember. Bradshaw has been sucking lately as a RB. But hey! He can block so let's play him more. The giants only need a running back to do two things, block and hang onto the ball. This is why they did not not keep Jacobs and why they did not go after anyone else, they wanted people as cheap as possible. We signed a guy who was cut 7 times! including by us. That should demonstrate to you what the giants are looking for!

Buddy333
10-07-2012, 11:52 AM
I rewatched the Eagle game this morning fing pissed off. They had that game won and everything broke down in the last few minutes. I dont understand why everything goes wrong against that team late in gamesI understand the frustration but they haven't been able to run on the Eagles for some time now. That and the fact they where pawing the ball a lot means Bradshaw plays more.

SackingMyths
10-07-2012, 12:05 PM
Example Chris Johnson. No injuries, no way he "lost a step". His line just does not get it done and he has bad games. Suddenly they get their blocking right and he rushes for 150.

That's actually not a bad comparison.

TENN's O-Line is much better at pass blocking than run blocking...just like ours.

And CJ picked up some bad habits dancing around and trying to create stuff that's not there -- just like Ahmad -- and for the same reasons, too.

Since we're bad at run blocking, Andre's North/South run style would no doubt work better. But if he can't block as well as Bradshaw, you're pretty much telegraphing that it's a run when he's in.

RoanokeFan
10-07-2012, 12:15 PM
I rewatched the Eagle game this morning fing pissed off. They had that game won and everything broke down in the last few minutes. I dont understand why everything goes wrong against that team late in games

It's really an amazing phenom

Buddy333
10-07-2012, 12:22 PM
It's really an amazing phenomUnfortunately against the Eagles it's not.

Joe Morrison
10-07-2012, 12:26 PM
I think he missed one block, a little over the top don't you think?

BParcells777
10-07-2012, 12:34 PM
every once in a while a guy comes along- A Blackburn, a Cruz, a Stevie Brown............guys who come out of nowhere who have honed their craft, worked hard, and prepared themselves for achievment

Andre Brown has the athletic tools and instincts to lead the NFL in rushing........Ahmad has been a mighty little warrior, but he does not have that kind of upside and is indeed slipping......also he is not a student of the run game, he is a student of the blocking game......he refuses to follow his blockers and have the patience that makes for a great not just a good runner.

If we are to repeat as Champions new blood has to step forward, as some like Tuck and Bradshaw slip into decline.....this is not the 2011 Giants

We have 33% roster turnover, and frankly we have one potential super star who has not yet played a down- Ojomo

I'm good with this team. I think they are headed in the right direction........sometimes a little early season disappointment is a character builder

I look forward to Eli hoisting another Silver Trophy this February.........LETS GO GIANTS!!!!!

RoanokeFan
10-07-2012, 12:38 PM
LOL can't block. He had one back block that I remember. Bradshaw has been sucking lately as a RB. But hey! He can block so let's play him more.

Eli got sacked because Brown didn't hold the block long enough. It's not earth shattering, he'll learn. He acknowledges he needs to improve as does Wilson.

BParcells777
10-07-2012, 12:45 PM
Eli got sacked because Brown didn't hold the block long enough. It's not earth shattering, he'll learn. He acknowledges he needs to improve as does Wilson.

With all due respect, I wonder why you need to keep pointing out one missed block in 6 sterling Qtrs of tremendous play? Why?
Give the man his due......he is the best looking RB we have seen since Hampton

gumby74
10-07-2012, 12:54 PM
Protecting Eli #1. He IS the franchise.

BParcells777
10-07-2012, 01:01 PM
OMG...........it was one sack in 6 QTRS?????????????????