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nygfan0816
12-18-2011, 04:46 PM
now we all know the d has been crap this season, part is because of fewell, part is because of bad players, and part is because of players being used wrong.

1st step would be firing fewell obviously, i know a lot of people want spags back i do 2 but i dont see the rams firing him.

2nd is moves in FA, trades, and draft. id trade osi for a 2nd and a player and canty for a mid round pick. i like both these guys but the d needs a rebuild. id resign terelle thomas, let ross walk.

3rd is switching to a 3-4 d, i think with the players we have a 3-4 d would be better.
tuck and jpp at DE, linval at NT.
boley and herzlich at MLBs
kiwi and a draftee at OLB
with thomas back we have 3 good CB and that would let rolle play safety again insted of trying to be a cover corner.

imo a 3-4 d is the way to go, i think our front 7 would thrive, especially kiwi, kiwi isnt a 4-3 LB, but in a 3-4 i think hed be very good, he can rush the QB and he'd be able to drop back too. tuck and jpp will be better too.

BJDaBeast
12-18-2011, 04:56 PM
I like the 3-4 look also but we need a NT to make it work.

RDE: Linval Joseph
NT: Draft/FA
LDE: Marvin Austin
OLB: Kiwi and JPP
ILB: Herlizch, Draft/FA... Williams/Jones are not ready

Bottom line is the Giants need to get faster on defense, Draft speedy DB's and big fast physical LB's and let a 3-4 coach run the show.
'
Get xtra draft picks by trading Rolle, Canty, Tuck and Osi.

PrimeTime89
12-18-2011, 05:00 PM
I think jpp as a 3-4 outside backer could be Matthews or ware like only things nd have to learn a whole new way unless he's just gunna be straight rushing but I think it could work Ed have to figure Something to do with boley

buddy33
12-18-2011, 05:06 PM
They will need to do a lot of work in the secondary. Not sure how TT will be after blowing out the same knee twice, Ross is horrible and should not be offered a penny to stay, Rolle is way over paid and just not that good so he should be cut ( saves a lot of money so that is a good thing ), Grant is old and slow, and Webster is getting older.

nygfan0816
12-18-2011, 05:11 PM
I think jpp as a 3-4 outside backer could be Matthews or ware like only things nd have to learn a whole new way unless he's just gunna be straight rushing but I think it could work Ed have to figure Something to do with boley jpp would be just as effective as a D E in a 3-4, kiwi tho could be very effective as an OLB in a 3-4 and could be like a matthews. boley would adjust fine, hed play in the middle along with herzlich who i believe played in a 3-4 at BC. we also have to draft another pass rushing OLB like an orakpo or ware.

nygfan0816
12-18-2011, 05:17 PM
They will need to do a lot of work in the secondary. Not sure how TT will be after blowing out the same knee twice, Ross is horrible and should not be offered a penny to stay, Rolle is way over paid and just not that good so he should be cut ( saves a lot of money so that is a good thing ), Grant is old and slow, and Webster is getting older.
id give thomas a 2 yr deal, hed be the nickle corner, prince will get better and be damn good, webster is solid every year no worries with him, rolle is being used like crap under fewells d, he isnt a cover corner and shouldnt be trying to cover santana moss 1 on 1. he needs to play SAFETY, not CB. and ross and grant have been the 2 worst players on d.

buddy33
12-18-2011, 05:18 PM
They will need to do a lot of work in the secondary. Not sure how TT will be after blowing out the same knee twice, Ross is horrible and should not be offered a penny to stay, Rolle is way over paid and just not that good so he should be cut ( saves a lot of money so that is a good thing ), Grant is old and slow, and Webster is getting older.
id give thomas a 2 yr deal, hed be the nickle corner, prince will get better and be damn good, webster is solid every year no worries with him, rolle is being used like crap under fewells d, he isnt a cover corner and shouldnt be trying to cover santana moss 1 on 1. he needs to play SAFETY, not CB.

Had enough of Rolle. Hope they show him the door and save some money.

M0rbid
12-18-2011, 05:20 PM
I could see both JPP and Kiwi adjusting to 3-4 really well.

Snappinnecks
12-18-2011, 05:23 PM
You guys are crazy. The 4-3 is here to stay.

nygfan0816
12-18-2011, 05:26 PM
I could see both JPP and Kiwi adjusting to 3-4 really well.
agree, its not 2007, we dont have a beast d line anymore. jpp would be just as good in a 3-4, kiwi would thrive imo playing OLB on the edge, he can rush the QB and isnt bad at coverage either. linval joseph would also do better imo, hes a big dude who i think would do good as a NT.

Rich4114
12-18-2011, 05:29 PM
We need line backers and push up the middle. Also the scheme does not do anything creative at all. First creative thing I've seen in 14 games was when they moved JPP around and had him come up the middle last minute. Result = incomplete pass on third down.

nygfan0816
12-18-2011, 05:43 PM
You guys are crazy. The 4-3 is here to stay. i dont think so, when u look around the league most successful defenses run 3-4. baltimore, houston, pittsburgh, the skins, jets all run 3-4 and i think its time we make the change as well, we have talant to do so. alot of our players would play better.

Beelzeboss
12-18-2011, 05:47 PM
I would love to see a transition to 3-4 but with our bull headed stubborn front office and coaching staff I just don't see it happening.

NYG_88
12-18-2011, 05:48 PM
Do you think Jags keep Mel Tucker, I mean theJags D is in the top 10 but injuries caught up to them. </P>


What about Rolle? Keep him, trade him, or cut him?</P>


The Giants in a 3-4 D would be kind of interesting to see that but I have always seen them as a 4-3 but maybe change is for the better.</P>

RobCarpenter
12-18-2011, 05:52 PM
Going to a 3-4 would be absolutely crazy. Are biggest assets on defense are best suited to be 4-3 DE's. We don't have any LB's worth a damn. </P>


We'd need to add at least 3 very good LB's and a Nose Tackle to go to a 3-4... and a 3- would diminish the roles / impacts of JPP and Tuck. </P>


Jus a bad idea.</P>

nygfan0816
12-18-2011, 05:56 PM
Do you think Jags keep Mel Tucker, I mean the*Jags D is in the top 10 but injuries caught up to them. </P>


What about Rolle? Keep him, trade him, or cut him?</P>


The Giants in a 3-4 D would be kind of interesting to see that but I have always seen them as a 4-3 but maybe change is for the better.</P>
i think mel tucker would be a good option, idk who we could hire as d coordinator.

i say we keep rolle and play him at safety, these 2 yrs under fewell hes played way too much corner, thats not his strength. he needs to play back with kp, he can also move in the box to help with run d and cover TEs and RBs, he shouldnt play nickle corner, hes terrible at it.

Kase-1
12-18-2011, 06:00 PM
Do you think Jags keep Mel Tucker, I mean theJags D is in the top 10 but injuries caught up to them. </p>


What about Rolle? Keep him, trade him, or cut him?</p>


The Giants in a 3-4 D would be kind of interesting to see that but I have always seen them as a 4-3 but maybe change is for the better.</p>
i think mel tucker would be a good option, idk who we could hire as d coordinator.

i say we keep rolle and play him at safety, these 2 yrs under fewell hes played way too much corner, thats not his strength. he needs to play back with kp, he can also move in the box to help with run d and cover TEs and RBs, he shouldnt play nickle corner, hes terrible at it.FINALLY someone talking some sense about Rolle

nygfan0816
12-18-2011, 06:01 PM
Going to a 3-4 would be absolutely crazy.* Are biggest assets on defense are best suited to be 4-3 DE's.* We don't have any LB's worth a damn.*** </P>


We'd need to add at least 3 very good LB's and a Nose Tackle to go to a 3-4... and a 3- would diminish the roles / impacts of JPP and Tuck.* </P>


Jus a bad idea.</P> its not 2007 dude, our d line isnt great no more. tuck and jpp would be just as effective, linval at NT could get a big push up the middle, boley & herzlich at MLB would be good and kiwi at OLB would thrive in a 3-4, whats not to like?

RobCarpenter
12-18-2011, 06:06 PM
Going to a 3-4 would be absolutely crazy. Are biggest assets on defense are best suited to be 4-3 DE's. We don't have any LB's worth a damn. </P>


We'd need to add at least 3 very good LB's and a Nose Tackle to go to a 3-4... and a 3- would diminish the roles / impacts of JPP and Tuck. </P>


Jus a bad idea.</P>


its not 2007 dude, our d line isnt great no more. tuck and jpp would be just as effective, linval at NT could get a big push up the middle, boley &amp; herzlich at MLB would be good and kiwi at OLB would thrive in a 3-4, whats not to like?</P>


What are you smoking?</P>


Minimimize the only defensive strength that we have (4-3 style DE's) and emphasize our weakest link (LB's). </P>


Pass the pipe man....</P>

guerilla
12-18-2011, 06:07 PM
In the last 30 years the best Giants best defense was during the 80's. Do you know what defense set they ran?

answer: 3-4

My assumed projection:
Justin Tuck (Starting DE)
Linval Joseph (Starting NT)
Chris Canty (Starting DE)
Mathia Kiwanuka (Starting OLB)
Jason Pierre-Paul (Starting OLB)
Jon Goff (Starting MLB)
Open (Starting MLB) can't really be confident to who that would go to.

But I have a feeling if Jerry Reese isn't fired, that he would stay at 4-3.

BJDaBeast
12-18-2011, 06:07 PM
Tuck and JPP couldn't play DE in a 3-4 unless you ask both to gain 30-40 pounds. JPP and Kiwi in a joker position rushing from the outside will be deadly. A nose tackle could be found in the draft or FA. The Giants have the pieces to go to a 3-4 trust me..

midnite_nj
12-18-2011, 06:07 PM
Doesnt a 3-4 mean that your linebackers are your strong suit? They have to be good at blitzing, covering, tackling, reading and recognizing pass or run. Name one linebacker on our squad that can do all of the above. We are a 4-3 team. Get over it. We dont have the personel for that scheme. Our d line will continue to be our strong suit even though JPP is the only warrior we have.

RobCarpenter
12-18-2011, 06:14 PM
Doesnt a 3-4 mean that your linebackers are your strong suit? They have to be good at blitzing, covering, tackling, reading and recognizing pass or run. Name one linebacker on our squad that can do all of the above. We are a 4-3 team. Get over it. We dont have the personel for that scheme. Our d line will continue to be our strong suit even though JPP is the only warrior we have.</P>


Agree.</P>


This 3-4 idea is one of teh worst I've seen on this site. A 3-4 places shifts the emphasis from th eDLine to teh LB's. We may have tohe weakest LB corp in the NFL. </P>


And regarding the '80's, we shifted to a 3-4 after we drafted LT and added him to an already strong LB corp which included Carson, Van Pelt, and Kelley. Back then, our cup run-it-over with LB's.</P>


</P>

nygfan0816
12-18-2011, 06:18 PM
Doesnt a 3-4 mean that your linebackers are your strong suit?* They have to be good at blitzing, covering, tackling, reading and recognizing pass or run.* Name one linebacker on our squad that can do all of the above.* We are a 4-3 team.* Get over it.* We dont have the personel for that scheme.* Our d line will continue to be our strong suit even though JPP is the only warrior we have.
boley and herzlich as MLBs could do all that. boley is a very good, fast LB and herzlich is gonna a good LB hes smart, great tackler and is good on a blitz.
kiwi is a 3-4 player, he isnt a 4-3 LB. every1 wants him to play a DE cause of his pass rushing skills but hes good in coverage too, if kiwi played in a 3-4 he would thrive.

3 LBs that we could use in a 3-4, wed also need to draft another OLB

PrimeTime89
12-18-2011, 06:23 PM
Wouldn't you want jpp rushing on the outside then you have joesph and Austin as your de along with candy unless we cut him we need a nt as the most glaring need to switch to a 3-4 in my opinion and then trade osi and possibly tuck I wanna give him a pass because he should prolly be on ir and well hear about it when the season is over

nygfan0816
12-18-2011, 06:33 PM
Wouldn't you want jpp rushing on the outside then you have joesph and Austin as your de along with candy unless we cut him we need a nt as the most glaring need to switch to a 3-4 in my opinion and then trade osi and possibly tuck I wanna give him a pass because he should prolly be on ir and well hear about it when the season is over
i think jpp could play DE in a 3-4 but he could probly be an OLB too. linval would be a good NT imo, a near 300 lbs rushing up the middle. id trade osi and canty. tuck would be good in a 3-4, he already plays all over the d line anyway. and as long as he doesn't have 15 different injuries hed be good.

O.C. Giant Fan
12-18-2011, 06:38 PM
There's no way this team can play a 3-4 with the linebackers they have and not having a true nose tackle-----they can stay with the 4-3 but changes need to be made:

I think with Austin coming back next season the line should improve but they need to draft a run-stuffing DT with one of their picks for depth and move Kiwanuka back to DE to replace Umenyiora and/or Tuck; Canty and Bernard are goners for sure:

my front four: Tuck or Kiwanuka/Joseph/Austin/Pierre-Paul

Linebackers: Paysinger or Kiwanuka/Herzlich or Jones/Williams (look for depth in draft or perhaps have Adrian Tracy/ Chad Jones (comeback!)/Clint Sintim (comeback?) play in this rotation)--I feel the young guys will improve with time and patience.

Secondary: Amukamara/Webster/ Phillips would be starters, with Justin Tryon, Terrell Thomas (should he re-sign coming off knee surgery), Michael Coe and Bryan Witherspoon in the mix at DB: the team woefully needs a safety in draft--preferably a SS-- to replace Rolle (swallow the cap hit on this bum!) and cut Grant immediately.

The Giants have done a good job building through the draft and have to go this route since they are saddled with huge contracts and not much cap room relief--I feel Jerry Reese's free-agent signings have been busts for the most part anyway.

And of course Perry Fewell has to be fired.[:)]

nygfan0816
12-18-2011, 07:50 PM
jpp would be even better in a 3-4 imo, u move him and kiwi to OLB and they will be beasts. tuck would still be good as a DE in the 3-4, linval joseph could be good at NT, and have canty move back to DE like he was in dallas. boley and herzlich would be good MLBs.

the giants would be top 5 d if they switched to a 3-4.

tuck and canty at ends
linval at NT
jpp and kiwi off the edges
boley and herzlich in the middle
thats a scary front 7

NYG_88
12-19-2011, 12:00 AM
Do you think Jags keep Mel Tucker, I mean the*Jags D is in the top 10 but injuries caught up to them. </p>


What about Rolle? Keep him, trade him, or cut him?</p>


The Giants in a 3-4 D would be kind of interesting to see that but I have always seen them as a 4-3 but maybe change is for the better.</p>
i think mel tucker would be a good option, idk who we could hire as d coordinator.

i say we keep rolle and play him at safety, these 2 yrs under fewell hes played way too much corner, thats not his strength. he needs to play back with kp, he can also move in the box to help with run d and cover TEs and RBs, he shouldnt play nickle corner, hes terrible at it.FINALLY someone talking some sense about Rolle


Yeah everybody here knows Rolle is a better safety than a corner thats why the Cards moved him to that position.

greenca190
12-19-2011, 12:10 AM
I think Tuck three years ago could play end in a 3-4. Now he's too worried about injuries to eat up two blockers at once for the rushers behind him.

Canty was excellent at defensive end in Dallas.

We only need to draft one line backer to make our 3-4 scheme complete? What happens when Goff goes down? Or boley? Or if Kiwi's neck snaps in half? Where's the depth?

Bad idea.

VBGiantsFan
12-19-2011, 12:10 AM
Do you think Jags keep Mel Tucker, I mean the*Jags D is in the top 10 but injuries caught up to them. </p>


What about Rolle? Keep him, trade him, or cut him?</p>


The Giants in a 3-4 D would be kind of interesting to see that but I have always seen them as a 4-3 but maybe change is for the better.</p>
i think mel tucker would be a good option, idk who we could hire as d coordinator.

i say we keep rolle and play him at safety, these 2 yrs under fewell hes played way too much corner, thats not his strength. he needs to play back with kp, he can also move in the box to help with run d and cover TEs and RBs, he shouldnt play nickle corner, hes terrible at it.FINALLY someone talking some sense about Rolle


Yeah everybody here knows Rolle is a better safety than a corner thats why the Cards moved him to that position.

Rolle sucks at safety also. He gets no excuses for being bad.

As for a 3-4 defense, I've been saying this forever on this board.

JPP CAN play DE in a 3-4, he is big enough. Canty used to play 3-4 DE for the Cowboys, and was very good at it when we picked him up infact.

Osi could definitely make the transition to OLB, as he is a small 4-3 end, and would mainly be the pass rushing specialist (similar to Ware). He has the quickest step of all our DEs currently, including JPP who is more powerful. Tuck would be the odd man out on the transition.

Boley and Kiwi are adequate blitzers, however we are severely lacking at MLB. We also do not have a true NT, and Joseph could not fil that roll.

Safeties: Phillips, New Safety
Corners: Webster,Thomas
Linebackers: Osi,Boley,New MLB,Kiwi
Line: JPP,New NT,Canty

Our LB in coverage would be our biggest concern.

NYG4lifeNYK
12-19-2011, 12:13 AM
In order to run a 3-4 you need 2 things, a STUD NT and LBers... we have neither.

slipknottin
12-19-2011, 12:15 AM
Here we go with the madden posts again. Sigh

NYG4lifeNYK
12-19-2011, 12:16 AM
Here we go with the madden posts again. Sigh

lol

greenca190
12-19-2011, 12:21 AM
Completely switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4 for next season will be impossible. I do not think that we have the personnel to run a 3-4 for the entire 4 quarters. However, I would not be against running multiple fronts. I don't understand why more teams in the league don't do this.

I also think this D would be pretty stout with some 46 looks. I think Rolle would excel, and our corners would flourish in man coverage.

VBGiantsFan
12-19-2011, 12:22 AM
Here we go with the madden posts again. Sigh

Teams make successful transitions to 3-4 defenses all the time.

Look at the Jets. Look at Houston. Look at the Redskins.

I agree, we'd need a few free agent pick ups and drafts, but it's not some crazy pipe dream like you are trying to make it seem. We have some pieces that can be moved to different positions and still be effective.

slipknottin
12-19-2011, 12:25 AM
Here we go with the madden posts again. Sigh

Teams make successful transitions to 3-4 defenses all the time.

Look at the Jets. Look at Houston. Look at the Redskins.

I agree, we'd need a few free agent pick ups and drafts, but it's not some crazy pipe dream like you are trying to make it seem. We have some pieces that can be moved to different positions and still be effective.

And the teams that do it have a reason to do it.

Redskins for instance had orakpo who was not a good fit as a 4-3 LB or a 4-3 De.

Texans switched because they had a lot of linebacker talent.

The giants would switch why? Their best players are ideally suited as 4-3 DEs.

VBGiantsFan
12-19-2011, 12:34 AM
Here we go with the madden posts again. Sigh

Teams make successful transitions to 3-4 defenses all the time.

Look at the Jets. Look at Houston. Look at the Redskins.

I agree, we'd need a few free agent pick ups and drafts, but it's not some crazy pipe dream like you are trying to make it seem. We have some pieces that can be moved to different positions and still be effective.

And the teams that do it have a reason to do it.

Redskins for instance had orakpo who was not a good fit as a 4-3 LB or a 4-3 De.

Texans switched because they had a lot of linebacker talent.

The giants would switch why? Their best players are ideally suited as 4-3 DEs.

Well, I agree and disagree with you:

A 3-4 defense would make Tuck, Joseph, and probably Austin obselete along the line.

JPP is big enough to be a DE in a 3-4 and Canty was originally a 3-4 end.

Osi would be a wildcard. He has the same size as guys like Ware and Orakpo, but there really is not tell how good he would be as an OLB until he's actually playing it. I think he'd be great, but I guess that's an unknown.

Boley's and Kiwi's position wouldn't change that drastically. What may happen is Kiwi could become obsolete and J Williams put at his position since he has similar size and speed, but is better in coverage as well.

Either way, I agree it would be an interesting transition, but a lot of our great players could still be effective. Tuck and possibly Kiwi are the only guys we'd probably have no place for.

slipknottin
12-19-2011, 12:38 AM
Osi isn't switching to a new scheme at this point in his career, he would just ask for a trade.

JPP is a beast as a 4-3 end, you want to move him inside and ask him to just tie up blockers?

Why you would want tuck to be obsolete just so you can move Canty back to 3-4 end I have no idea, but it has to rank up there as worst decisions possible.

JMFP2
12-19-2011, 12:40 AM
Some of this might be wishful thinking....I'll admit I don't know the contract status of these players, so this is thinking out loud.</P>


But, if possible,I think the front office needs to make moves that exclude the following players from the equation.</P>


Tuck (too injury prone, possibly past prime)</P>


Osi (same)</P>


Bradshaw (same)</P>


Jacobs (age, past-peak)</P>


Diehl (age, past-peak)</P>


Canty (cost)</P>


Bernard (cost)</P>


Rolle (cost, chemistry,overrated)</P>

nygfan0816
12-19-2011, 12:47 AM
transitioning to a 3-4 wouldn't be that difficult. we have the pieces.

kiwi would be great as an OLB in the 3-4, great pass rusher, decent coverage skills.
move jpp to OLB, worked wonders for mario williams b4 he got hurt
tuck is big enuff to play DE in a 3-4 and canty play DE in a 3-4 in dallas.
linval is a 300 lb wrecking ball, i think hed be a good NT.
boley could move to MLB in a 3-4 along with herzlich who is gonna be very good, i think he played in a 3-4 at BC?

only problem i see is depth at LB.

fewellmustgo
12-19-2011, 12:50 AM
JPP is our best player on defense and if you ask me he will be the best DE in the league in a couple years. Hes not a 3-4 end. Hes a play maker making him a 3-4 DE you take away a lot of his play making ability. 3-4 ends need to take up blockers jpp should'nt be doing that. Reason most teams switch to 3-4 is because its hard to find pass rushing ends.

A switch to lb is not a good idea either. First hes very big for a lb. His power is one of his best strength. His 2nd best strength is his first step. Olb speed is most inportant. His best spot is 4-3 end.

VBGiantsFan
12-19-2011, 01:01 AM
Osi isn't switching to a new scheme at this point in his career, he would just ask for a trade.

JPP is a beast as a 4-3 end, you want to move him inside and ask him to just tie up blockers?

Why you would want tuck to be obsolete just so you can move Canty back to 3-4 end I have no idea, but it has to rank up there as worst decisions possible.

Hate to break it to you, but Tuck isn't exactly tearing it up this season. Canty has been much more valuable to us. Tuck is getting injured a lot, and that may not change.

Rarely do we have Tuck, Osi, and JPP on the field together at the same time. In fact, when they are all healthy we usually rotate them.

Osi moving to OLB would significantly lessen the wear and tear on his body every play. In fact, he'd probably be able to play the whole game.

JPP would still have a chance to get after the QB, it is not as drastic as you make it sound. He is also very good against the run, something very important at that position.

It's pretty obvious what we have right now isn't working...I'm not against trying something new and seeing where it goes.

A new defensive cooridinator would be a start before a different scheme.

VBGiantsFan
12-19-2011, 01:02 AM
JPP is our best player on defense and if you ask me he will be the best DE in the league in a couple years. Hes not a 3-4 end. Hes a play maker making him a 3-4 DE you take away a lot of his play making ability. 3-4 ends need to take up blockers jpp should'nt be doing that. Reason most teams switch to 3-4 is because its hard to find pass rushing ends.

A switch to lb is not a good idea either. First hes very big for a lb. His power is one of his best strength. His 2nd best strength is his first step. Olb speed is most inportant. His best spot is 4-3 end.


I do agree JPP is better suited for a 4-3, BUT I still think he would be effective in a 3-4.

Also, maybe the transition doesn't need to be drastic, but instead, we could get a coordinator who could run a hybrid defense.

slipknottin
12-19-2011, 01:07 AM
Canty more valuable than Tuck?

Tuck has been a top 5 Dae in the league the last three seasons, amazing how quickly people want to throw someone away, especially when he's injured.

fewellmustgo
12-19-2011, 01:09 AM
JPP is our best player on defense and if you ask me he will be the best DE in the league in a couple years. Hes not a 3-4 end. Hes a play maker making him a 3-4 DE you take away a lot of his play making ability. 3-4 ends need to take up blockers jpp should'nt be doing that. Reason most teams switch to 3-4 is because its hard to find pass rushing ends.

A switch to lb is not a good idea either. First hes very big for a lb. His power is one of his best strength. His 2nd best strength is his first step. Olb speed is most inportant. His best spot is 4-3 end.


I do agree JPP is better suited for a 4-3, BUT I still think he would be effective in a 3-4.

Also, maybe the transition doesn't need to be drastic, but instead, we could get a coordinator who could run a hybrid defense.

See I want a DC to take our best player and build the defense around what he does best. Thats the best way to run a defense imo.

giants2thebowl
12-19-2011, 01:09 AM
I like the 3-4 look also but we need a NT to make it work.

RDE: Linval Joseph
NT: Draft/FA
LDE: Marvin Austin
OLB: Kiwi and JPP
ILB: Herlizch, Draft/FA... Williams/Jones are not ready

Bottom line is the Giants need to get faster on defense, Draft speedy DB's and big fast physical LB's and let a 3-4 coach run the show.
'
Get xtra draft picks by trading Rolle, Canty, Tuck and Osi.wow that would be an awful defensive line..

Jon6777
12-19-2011, 01:21 AM
JPP would be awesome as an OLB in a 3-4. Use him like Ware and blitz him from all over the line all game, have him drop in to coverage only a few times. We'd have Kiwi opposite of JPP who can play coverage well for a big guy. Canty would be back at his natural position at 3-4 DE (rather see him cut though with that contract). Have Linval be the NT and Tuck at the other DE spot. Boley and Herzlich/Jones would be at MLB.Wouldn't like to see this actually happen but Id gladly do it in Madden!

fewellmustgo
12-19-2011, 01:34 AM
Ware is a better olb then JPP would be. You can move JPP all over the line as a de. He dont have the top end speed Ware has. What JPP has is strength and a first step thats off the charts. Both things are made for a 4-3 end. When you have a player like JPP use his strengths to his best then build the rest of the defense around him. I think hes that good.

Spizi
12-19-2011, 01:56 AM
Doesnt a 3-4 mean that your linebackers are your strong suit?* They have to be good at blitzing, covering, tackling, reading and recognizing pass or run.* Name one linebacker on our squad that can do all of the above.* We are a 4-3 team.* Get over it.* We dont have the personel for that scheme.* Our d line will continue to be our strong suit even though JPP is the only warrior we have.
boley and herzlich as MLBs could do all that. boley is a very good, fast LB and herzlich is gonna a good LB hes smart, great tackler and is good on a blitz.
kiwi is a 3-4 player, he isnt a 4-3 LB. every1 wants him to play a DE cause of his pass rushing skills but hes good in coverage too, if kiwi played in a 3-4 he would thrive.

3 LBs that we could use in a 3-4, wed also need to draft another OLB

You make a great point about Kiwi. He's somewhat of a liability in coverage in a 4-3 but in a 3-4 he has the potential to be great. JPP definitely has the ability to play in space with is athleticism and long arms.

If you have those 2 at OLB, Tuck LJ and Canty on the Dline, they have potential.

It's funny all the people who come on here and bash us switching to a 3-4 acting like they know everything. WE COULD DO IT and it would only take 1 offseason.

Jotun_Fan
12-19-2011, 02:01 AM
lol @ this thread. We have one good linebacker, and people want us to use more of them? Not only that, we'd have people who have played a position their whole career suddenly learn a new position? The main issue is personnel and depth. Our personnel is suited to a 4-3, and our D-line is deeper than our linebacker corps. Even if we had 4 good starting backers in a 3-4 it's not enough, because at least one of those guys is going to miss significant playing time.

nygfan0816
12-19-2011, 02:30 AM
lol @ this thread. We have one good linebacker, and people want us to use more of them? Not only that, we'd have people who have played a position their whole career suddenly learn a new position? The main issue is personnel and depth. Our personnel is suited to a 4-3, and our D-line is deeper than our linebacker corps. Even if we had 4 good starting backers in a 3-4 it's not enough, because at least one of those guys is going to miss significant playing time.
i love how ever1 thinks they're defensive geniuses. yea in a 4-3 right now we have 1 good LB in boley, but if we were to switch to a 3-4 our OLB would be jpp and kiwi, they would be great in a 3-4. then u have boley who would adjust fine at MLB and herzlich who played in a 3-4 in college will know what hes doing, then u have tuck, linval, and canty as d linemen.
and boom u have what looks like a scary front 7 in a 3-4. not f'n difficult

nycsportzfan
12-19-2011, 02:53 AM
I've been saying for awhile now its ti<span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">me to get rid of the Core group of vets that have been around and strangly invisible for </span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">most if not enough chunks of 3straight collapses! Guys like Osi and Tuck are right at the head of the list! I basically pleaded that we take that 2nd rounder for Osi in the offseason as he'd never had back to back good seasons and was yet another yr older and dosen't defend the run and is injury prone The backlash fro</span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">m the ho</span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">mers on here is to </span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">much so</span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">meti</span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">mes! THey get way to attached! We'd be lucky to get a 2nd for Osi at this point </span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">more like a 3rd now </span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription"></span>

gmen 24/7
12-19-2011, 03:14 AM
Not that I support having a 3-4 defense or if i do, but correct me if I'm wrong, didn't we invent the 3-4 defense?

Kase-1
12-19-2011, 09:14 AM
JPP would be awesome as an OLB in a 3-4. Use him like Ware and blitz him from all over the line all game, have him drop in to coverage only a few times. We'd have Kiwi opposite of JPP who can play coverage well for a big guy. Canty would be back at his natural position at 3-4 DE (rather see him cut though with that contract). Have Linval be the NT and Tuck at the other DE spot. Boley and Herzlich/Jones would be at MLB.<font size="6">Wouldn't like to see this actually happen but Id gladly do it in Madden!</font>
LMAO, agreed

Kase-1
12-19-2011, 09:21 AM
Here we go with the madden posts again. Sigh

Teams make successful transitions to 3-4 defenses all the time.

Look at the Jets. Look at Houston. Look at the Redskins.

I agree, we'd need a few free agent pick ups and drafts, but it's not some crazy pipe dream like you are trying to make it seem. We have some pieces that can be moved to different positions and still be effective.

And the teams that do it have a reason to do it.

Redskins for instance had orakpo who was not a good fit as a 4-3 LB or a 4-3 De.

Texans switched because they had a lot of linebacker talent.

The giants would switch why? Their best players are ideally suited as 4-3 DEs.

Well, I agree and disagree with you:

A 3-4 defense would make Tuck, Joseph, and probably Austin obselete along the line.

JPP is big enough to be a DE in a 3-4 and Canty was originally a 3-4 end.

Osi would be a wildcard. He has the same size as guys like Ware and Orakpo, but there really is not tell how good he would be as an OLB until he's actually playing it. I think he'd be great, but I guess that's an unknown.

Boley's and Kiwi's position wouldn't change that drastically. What may happen is Kiwi could become obsolete and J Williams put at his position since he has similar size and speed, but is better in coverage as well.

Either way, I agree it would be an interesting transition, but a lot of our great players could still be effective. Tuck and possibly Kiwi are the only guys we'd probably have no place for.

So in your mindset we would switch to 3-4 and all of a sudden our last 2 2nd round picks just become expendable??

JPP is big enough to be a 3-4 DE, but he excells in 4-3. Canty as well is having a damned good year. It would be a waste of talent to have those guys as 3-4 OL eaters

Osi as a straight pass rushing OLB, I guess that could be possible. As long as he doestn have to play coverage or stop the run

If you think JWill's coverage skill is better than Kiwi's you must have missed a handful of games this year. The only time JWill's coverage was good was against Vick when his duty was to be the spy all game

Redeyejedi
12-19-2011, 09:36 AM
*I've been saying for awhile now its ti<span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">me to get rid of the Core group of vets that have been around and strangly invisible for </span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">most if not enough chunks of 3straight collapses! Guys like Osi and Tuck are right at the head of the list!* I** basically pleaded that we take that 2nd rounder for Osi in the offseason as he'd never had back to back good seasons and was yet another yr older and dosen't defend the run and is injury prone*** The backlash fro</span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">m the ho</span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">mers on here is to </span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">much so</span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">meti</span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">mes! THey get way to attached!* We'd be lucky to get* a 2nd for Osi at this point*** </span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">more like a 3rd now**** </span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription"></span> No one is giving the Giants more then a 5th round pick for Osi

nygfan0816
12-19-2011, 12:54 PM
any suggestions on defensive coordinators that will be available? some1 who can run a 3-4?

would jack del rio be willing to be a DC or does he want a head coaching job?

slipknottin
12-19-2011, 12:59 PM
any suggestions on defensive coordinators that will be available? some1 who can run a 3-4?

would jack del rio be willing to be a DC or does he want a head coaching job?

They aren't going to switch to a 3-4. Their best players are 4-3 ends,

nycsportzfan
12-19-2011, 06:38 PM
I've been saying for awhile now its ti<span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">me to get rid of the Core group of vets that have been around and strangly invisible for </span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">most if not enough chunks of 3straight collapses! Guys like Osi and Tuck are right at the head of the list! I basically pleaded that we take that 2nd rounder for Osi in the offseason as he'd never had back to back good seasons and was yet another yr older and dosen't defend the run and is injury prone The backlash fro</span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">m the ho</span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">mers on here is to </span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">much so</span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">meti</span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">mes! THey get way to attached! We'd be lucky to get a 2nd for Osi at this point </span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription">more like a 3rd now </span><span id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr_PostForm___ForumDescription"></span> No one is giving the Giants more then a 5th round pick for Osi No i here ya there a 3rd was wishful thinking to be honest Its funny because we'll probably jump on a 4th rounder at this point lol Its funny how many people just coulden't think for themselves in the offseason and agree that a 2nd was more then enough looking at what Osi has done on a every yr basis and being another yr older and also injury prone and not good against the run It was the same thing the Yr we could've traded a 2nd for Tony Gonzalez and i pleaded that we do it and 90pct of the people on here were "no way hes to old and yada yada yada" lol He would've been huge for us and not to mention would still be here producing unlike Clint Sintim