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FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 06:02 PM
Our front 4 are not doing their job at all. Even with a blitz we cannot get to the QB. I do not know what is going on or what is wrong. It almost seems once they get in, they over pressure and end up being out of the play.

I believe with our team we need to go to a 3-4. Basically moving JPP back to a LB'er position. This could be awesome in every sense and work very well for us since teams would not have a clue about us now and have no way to prepare. JPP could be the same as Kiwanuka in this respect. He would adapt very well as long as he is on the INSIDE.

ny06
10-07-2012, 06:12 PM
I was waiting for a 3-4 defense thread; we get one about once or twice every year. Let's face it, the d-line is underperforming. No one knows why, but changing defensive schemes is not the answer. We just don't have the personal to do the switch. The most valuable position in a 3-4 other than the linebackers is the nose tackle. And I think moving Linval Joseph to the nose might take at least a year for him to get comfortable. This team’s foundation is the d-line, and right now they are not getting the job done, hence why we are not looking that good on the defensive side of the ball.

Maybe an easy solution could be what the Eagles do with their d-line, rotate players so they are always fresh. We kept Tracy & Ojomo on the 53 man roster to play special teams? Let's give these two some snaps on defense, give Tuck, JPP, Osi a break here and there. You even have Kiwi who can get a few snaps at d-end.

joemorrisforprez
10-07-2012, 06:15 PM
I was waiting for a 3-4 defense thread; we get one about once or twice every year. Let's face it, the d-line is underperforming. No one knows why, but changing defensive schemes is not the answer. We just don't have the personal to do the switch. The most valuable position in a 3-4 other than the linebackers is the nose tackle. And I think moving Linval Joseph to the nose might take at least a year for him to get comfortable. This team’s foundation is the d-line, and right now they are not getting the job done, hence why we are not looking that good on the defensive side of the ball.

Maybe an easy solution could be what the Eagles do with their d-line, rotate players so they are always fresh. We kept Tracy & Ojomo on the 53 man roster to play special teams? Let's give these two some snaps on defense, give Tuck, JPP, Osi a break here and there. You even have Kiwi who can get a few snaps at d-end.

A rotation is a good idea. And bringing more than 4 on the pass rush is needed as well.

Buddy333
10-07-2012, 06:18 PM
Watching some of the 49ers on the RedZone and they have a Big OL. They might push the Giants DL all over the place next week.

TrueBlue@NYC
10-07-2012, 06:41 PM
Our DL is definitly underperforming and it's only been exhasterbated by the injuries at DT to Canty and Bernard. Tracy needs to see some snaps at least to give Tucks, Osi and JPP a breather and to mix things up.

Also, what the heck happened to all of the stunts and twists we used to use along the DL? Don't see them anymore.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 06:47 PM
Watching some of the 49ers on the RedZone and they have a Big OL. They might push the Giants DL all over the place next week. JPP got pushed all over today. Even the plays in slo-mo showed him getting handled.All I know is that in high-school ball I could play any Dlineman position at any given time. How hard is it to move to Nose-guard when you know if you do your job others have your back?

We at this present time have zero outside contain. The last 2 games have exposed that weakness. I always preached outside contain when I coached......move the ball to the interior where you have help!!!!!!

idiotekniQues
10-07-2012, 06:52 PM
that was the only real weakness today. and a few plays with poor tackling on Richardson, but he is talented

Buddy333
10-07-2012, 06:54 PM
I want to think that they have a break out game next week, but after 5 games hey just don't look good at all. I thought it was just about the others teams getting rid of the ball quicker, but there where times that the QB had all day to throw it today. They might get pushed around all day next week. I don't see why we should expect any different. Will Bernard be back next week?

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 06:56 PM
that was the only real weakness today. and a few plays with poor tackling on Richardson, but he is talentedHe is a beastof a runner with wheels that just dont stop until he hits the ground!!! Very impressed with him, and I think AB1 got motivated to be like him after his first fumble and succeeded.

Buddy333
10-07-2012, 06:58 PM
The 49ers have some packages where the use their back up QB. That OL is huge. The guy always seems to make huge gains when they put him in.

Parademon
10-07-2012, 07:01 PM
There were a few plays were Weeden had all day to throw! Alex Smith will light us up if we give him that kind of time. We're gonna have to win the battle of the trenches & get a few TOs if we wanna win this one. Be nice if Bradshaw & or Wilson/Brown can have a big game too & Nicks is back.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 07:02 PM
The 49ers have some packages where the use their back up QB. That OL is huge. The guy always seems to make huge gains when they put him in.Dont forget, BJ is back and.......he ran well during his time there in the preseason, 4 carries for 37 yds. Our O-line is shot.

Buddy333
10-07-2012, 07:04 PM
The 49ers are humiliating the Bills. Hats 2 weeks in a row they look extremely dominant.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 07:55 PM
The 49ers are humiliating the Bills. Hats 2 weeks in a row they look extremely dominant.We will have a tough time with the 40 whiners next week for sure. I think they have gotten back to the 80's seasons with this years team. I can only hope we win but it looks dim.

ny06
10-07-2012, 07:57 PM
The 49ers are humiliating the Bills. Hats 2 weeks in a row they look extremely dominant.
The Jets and Bills are not what I call good teams.

Buddy333
10-07-2012, 07:58 PM
The Jets and the Bills are not what I call good teams.No, but they have still looked dominant while the Giants have not.

RoanokeFan
10-07-2012, 08:09 PM
A rotation is a good idea. And bringing more than 4 on the pass rush is needed as well.

If we had the secondary we started the season with we might see more corner and safety blitzes

Die-Hard
10-07-2012, 08:13 PM
A rotation is a good idea. And bringing more than 4 on the pass rush is needed as well.

I didnt read the entire thread, and it was probably already mentioned, but I think they reason why they aren't rushing more than 4 is because of the huge question marks in the secondary. It would be suicide to call an all-out blitz when you have 2nd and 3rd stringers back there that you(rightfully) dont trust to cover. There is no question about the front 4 though. They aren't doing a thing, and it's going to really cost them if it keeps up

Die-Hard
10-07-2012, 08:15 PM
There were a few plays were Weeden had all day to throw! Alex Smith will light us up if we give him that kind of time. We're gonna have to win the battle of the trenches & get a few TOs if we wanna win this one. Be nice if Bradshaw & or Wilson/Brown can have a big game too & Nicks is back.

Dont count on seeing the Giants run the ball at all next week. It'll be a huge waste of time, since no one is running on SF, especially with our non run blocking Oline.

BlueReign
10-07-2012, 08:28 PM
Dline has been non existent all year.

Hessian
10-07-2012, 08:29 PM
Dont count on seeing the Giants run the ball at all next week. It'll be a huge waste of time, since no one is running on SF, especially with our non run blocking Oline.
So pass on every down? LMFAO. The Giants will run it and have some success. A few draws and counters against a team out for blood will give the Gmen what they need to open up the passing game. I know its been posted a thousand times today that it was only the Browns but 41 points and 200+ on the ground is good against any club. Last I checked they employ professional players too.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 08:56 PM
I didnt read the entire thread, and it was probably already mentioned, but I think they reason why they aren't rushing more than 4 is because of the huge question marks in the secondary. It would be suicide to call an all-out blitz when you have 2nd and 3rd stringers back there that you(rightfully) dont trust to cover. There is no question about the front 4 though. They aren't doing a thing, and it's going to really cost them if it keeps upHow do you not read the thread and then comment???? LOL Yes our 2ndary is very suspect. We are just picking up the pieces as we go along. It did already cost us in the Philthy game. Badly!

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 09:14 PM
So pass on every down? LMFAO. The Giants will run it and have some success. A few draws and counters against a team out for blood will give the Gmen what they need to open up the passing game. I know its been posted a thousand times today that it was only the Browns but 41 points and 200+ on the ground is good against any club. Last I checked they employ professional players too.Well, I would have to say, use our weaknesses against them, Philthy did, and succeed.

Rudyy
10-07-2012, 09:18 PM
I'm seriously starting to think someone is injured, and someone is speaking up.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 09:29 PM
I'm seriously starting to think someone is injured, and someone is speaking up.What does that mean? We do not put injured players in as our injury list clearly is a measurement.

Rudyy
10-07-2012, 09:31 PM
What does that mean? We do not put injured players in as our injury list clearly is a measurement.Meant to say not* speaking up.

idiotekniQues
10-07-2012, 09:33 PM
I didnt read the entire thread, and it was probably already mentioned, but I think they reason why they aren't rushing more than 4 is because of the huge question marks in the secondary. It would be suicide to call an all-out blitz when you have 2nd and 3rd stringers back there that you(rightfully) dont trust to cover. There is no question about the front 4 though. They aren't doing a thing, and it's going to really cost them if it keeps up

that's pretty much it. the secondary is not to be trusted yet with so many injuries, but the point of the front office focusing on the DL is that we are supposed to be getting pressure with just the four man line. it sure isn't happening. i can see not overpursuing against very mobile QB's, but we aren't getting much pressure on anyone.

Buddy333
10-07-2012, 09:36 PM
Yeah but the secondary has been getting torched at time anyway. I haven't heard them call out Prince since he came back. Maybe they can trust him alone a little. Is Hosely ever coming back? They could also use Bernard.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 09:42 PM
Meant to say not* speaking up.Ok, but you should if you know something. Or at least have an opinion Rudyy. BTW I am not mad. lol

Kase-1
10-07-2012, 09:42 PM
I love people suggesting we go to the 3-4, you guys are so cute

slipknottin
10-07-2012, 09:45 PM
Ill try to go through the coaches film tomorrow and see what was going on. At the game it did seem like a lot of 3 step drops and quick throws. Which does partly explain the 4 batted passes at the line.

Also Joe Thomas vs. JPP. Joe Thomas is, without doubt, the best LT in the league. That certainly worked in cleveland's favor

Rudyy
10-07-2012, 09:46 PM
Ok, but you should if you know something. Or at least have an opinion Rudyy. BTW I am not mad. lolI'm not saying that someone is injured for sure, but I'm just guessing that somebody might have an injury (Specifically Tuck) and it's affecting the d-line. It's just speculation.

I don't understand why me being mad at you has anything to do with this topic. And I'm not.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 09:47 PM
I love people suggesting we go to the 3-4, you guys are so cuteReally why is that? What do you know that we dont at this time? Cute is not a word I would describe our D getting handed an az whooping every week. We do not have a Dline that does anything but show me a line of blue on the TV every week. Last 2 games =zero penetration. That in itself is weak!

slipknottin
10-07-2012, 09:49 PM
Really why is that?

Because they dont have the players for a 3-4. Their best players are best in a 4-3.

Scheme isnt the issue.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 09:49 PM
I'm not saying that someone is injured for sure, but I'm just guessing that somebody might have an injury (Specifically Tuck) and it's affecting the d-line. It's just speculation.

I don't understand why me being mad at you has anything to do with this topic. And I'm not.I just think Tuck has not been the same since Flozzell tripped his ***, and now it has taken its toll. Tuck may not be injured but he sure as hell isnt the same rusher we knew 2 years ago. I say he retires at the end of this year. He is playing like a lame duck the last 2 years.

Glad you r not mad.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 09:51 PM
Because they dont have the players for a 3-4. Their best players are best in a 4-3.

Scheme isnt the issue.Yes I know they dont have the players for a 3-4. But in my opinion they do. move bernard to NT and JPP to Inside LB and there you have it. Just MHO.

slipknottin
10-07-2012, 09:52 PM
Yes I know they dont have the players for a 3-4. But in my opinion they do. move bernard to NT and JPP to Inside LB and there you have it. Just MHO.

what? JPP playing inside linebacker?

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 09:54 PM
Ill try to go through the coaches film tomorrow and see what was going on. At the game it did seem like a lot of 3 step drops and quick throws. Which does partly explain the 4 batted passes at the line.

Also Joe Thomas vs. JPP. Joe Thomas is, without doubt, the best LT in the league. That certainly worked in cleveland's favorBut at RT for the Browns they had a ROOKIE and Tuck got zero pressure? Something is wrong. No switches on D No cross schemes, just straigght up pass rush. Hell I could do that all day. where is the trickery on the D line?????

brad
10-07-2012, 09:54 PM
Yes I know they dont have the players for a 3-4. But in my opinion they do. move bernard to NT and JPP to Inside LB and there you have it. Just MHO.

Wow, I think this thread just went beyond rediculous

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 09:56 PM
what? JPP playing inside linebacker?Yes, I think he would be easy to convert since he didnt play a down of football prior to college. Great brain, Great skills= put me in coach at any position almost. I think he would be a GREAT LB.

slipknottin
10-07-2012, 09:56 PM
But at RT for the Browns they had a ROOKIE and Tuck got zero pressure? Something is wrong. No switches on D No cross schemes, just straigght up pass rush. Hell I could do that all day. where is the trickery on the D line?????

As I said, I have to go back and watch. But the ability to leave Thomas alone on JPP does let them double/chip the other side. Lots of quick throws and screens also will slow a pass rush.

Tracy got quite a few snaps late in the game, got some pressure on at least one of the plays that I saw.

slipknottin
10-07-2012, 09:56 PM
Yes, I think he would be easy to convert since he didnt play a down of football prior to college. Great brain, Great skills= put me in coach at any position almost. I think he would be a GREAT LB.



I dont see how taking the best DE the giants have and making him play ILB improves the pass rush.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 09:57 PM
Wow, I think this thread just went beyond rediculouswhen you have coached as long as I have and won championships, I will let you say that. However, JPP has the ability the be like Kiwanuka on a higher level. I see it and feel it. we could go to a 3-4 tomorrow.

TheEnigma
10-07-2012, 09:58 PM
Bernard at 3-4 NT? That sounds like a recipe for disaster.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 09:59 PM
I dont see how taking the best DE the giants have and making him play ILB improves the pass rush.We get killed on slants all day long. JPP is so quick and big he could break half of them up himself. plus, he could be a major blitz concern, much like LT was from every side of the ball.

Toadofsteel
10-07-2012, 10:00 PM
when you have coached as long as I have and won championships, I will let you say that. However, JPP has the ability the be like Kiwanuka on a higher level. I see it and feel it. we could go to a 3-4 tomorrow.

While I find the idea of going to a 3-4 (or even just mixing in some 3-4 concepts) intriguing, you just can't go to 3-4 on the turn of a dime. I sure as hell wouldn't want to have only one week to install a brand new defense...

slipknottin
10-07-2012, 10:00 PM
We get killed on slants all day long. JPP is so quick and big he could break half of them up himself. plus, he could be a major blitz concern, much like LT was from every side of the ball.

So take the best pass rusher on the team, and only let him rush the passer occasionally, and this will improve the pass rush?

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 10:01 PM
Bernard at 3-4 NT? That sounds like a recipe for disaster.put whomever you want at NT,put linval in IDC, we should go to a 3-4 cause the 4-3 isnt getting it done and we have zero outside containment.

Toadofsteel
10-07-2012, 10:01 PM
So take the best pass rusher on the team, and only let him rush the passer occasionally, and this will improve the pass rush?

Personally, I like my "CB Jernigan" idea better than that TBH... lol

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 10:02 PM
So take the best pass rusher on the team, and only let him rush the passer occasionally, and this will improve the pass rush?what did he do the last 2 games? got double teamed. Move him back a notch and let him get a head of steam on the way in.

miked1958
10-07-2012, 10:02 PM
No, but they have still looked dominant while the Giants have not.Yes but what about the game where the niners were overwhelmed by the Vikings. It happens. We could overwhelm them this upcoming week

Toadofsteel
10-07-2012, 10:02 PM
put whomever you want at NT,put linval in IDC, we should go to a 3-4 cause the 4-3 isnt getting it done and we have zero outside containment.You just can't revamp a defense like that midseason though...

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 10:03 PM
While I find the idea of going to a 3-4 (or even just mixing in some 3-4 concepts) intriguing, you just can't go to 3-4 on the turn of a dime. I sure as hell wouldn't want to have only one week to install a brand new defense...Its not brand new, we did it years ago with huge success. I say switch it up and we will kill'em all this season.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 10:04 PM
You just can't revamp a defense like that midseason though...what we have isnt working and a 3-4 isnt hard to comprehend. I will go do it. lol

slipknottin
10-07-2012, 10:04 PM
Its not brand new, we did it years ago with huge success. I say switch it up and we will kill'em all this season.

Years ago they took their best DE and made them an inside linebacker?

alentown pa
10-07-2012, 10:04 PM
when you have coached as long as I have and won championships, I will let you say that. However, JPP has the ability the be like Kiwanuka on a higher level. I see it and feel it. we could go to a 3-4 tomorrow.

fantasy football championshps dont count.

TheEnigma
10-07-2012, 10:05 PM
put whomever you want at NT,put linval in IDC, we should go to a 3-4 cause the 4-3 isnt getting it done and we have zero outside containment.

Which 3 defensive linemen would stay at the LOS? Remember that there is more pressure on those guys to occupy blockers for the linebackers to make plays. If we don't have enough big bodies who can also adequately rush the passer at all times, it would be an easy defense to defeat.

Kase-1
10-07-2012, 10:06 PM
put whomever you want at NT,put linval in IDC, we should go to a 3-4 cause the 4-3 isnt getting it done and we have zero outside containment.That has nothing to do with scheme and everything to do with undisciplined players

Toadofsteel
10-07-2012, 10:07 PM
Which 3 defensive linemen would stay at the LOS? Remember that there is more pressure on those guys to occupy blockers for the linebackers to make plays. If we don't have enough big bodies who can also adequately rush the passer at all times, it would be an easy defense to defeat.

There is this to be said as well. Canty is the only body big enough to take double teams, and he's out. And honestly, I think Canty did a lot more than most fans realize. He functioned like a 3-4 nose tackle, taking up bodies on the O-line, allowing Tuck to get to the QB.

Kase-1
10-07-2012, 10:07 PM
what did he do the last 2 games? got double teamed. Move him back a notch and let him get a head of steam on the way in.You DO realize theres more to it than just rushing the passer, right?

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 10:08 PM
As I said, I have to go back and watch. But the ability to leave Thomas alone on JPP does let them double/chip the other side. Lots of quick throws and screens also will slow a pass rush.

Tracy got quite a few snaps late in the game, got some pressure on at least one of the plays that I saw.Slip, with your knowledge of the game, and the fact you re-watch most of the plays like you are a HC I would never doubt you. I just know what I saw during the game. The last 2 games we have had zero sacks and minimal QB pressures. That is a mjor concern. PM me on this issue if you need to. Thanks Slip!

alentown pa
10-07-2012, 10:08 PM
Banks said on the post game that JPP and Tuck commented that teams are doing something different this year in their blocking schems, and that is taking away from the pass rush...I know the eagles did a lot of chipping but this can not be what they are talking about, it's not like thats some fresh new idea...anyone see or hear anything on what other teams are doing?

Toadofsteel
10-07-2012, 10:09 PM
Banks said on the post game that JPP and Tuck commented that teams are doing something different this year in their blocking schems, and that is taking away from the pass rush...I know the eagles did a lot of chipping but this can not be what they are talking about, it's not like thats some fresh new idea...anyone see or hear anything on what other teams are doing?

A lot more teams are remembering (thanks to us) that you can use TE's to block. It's not just opposing teams either... Bennett helped keep Eli upright the whole freaking game against the Eagles.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 10:10 PM
Years ago they took their best DE and made them an inside linebacker?No, I see where you are coming from. I am just so frustrated with our lack of penetration this year that I think I see something that is attainable with JPP being converted, and with that OJOMO gets back in as well.

slipknottin
10-07-2012, 10:11 PM
Banks said on the post game that JPP and Tuck commented that teams are doing something different this year in their blocking schems, and that is taking away from the pass rush...I know the eagles did a lot of chipping but this can not be what they are talking about, it's not like thats some fresh new idea...anyone see or hear anything on what other teams are doing?

Thats what I want to look for.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 10:13 PM
fantasy football championshps dont count.That is not fantasy football. It was Pop Warner football. Yeah it is not anything much, but when you take a given group of kids, put them into a position, train them, condition them and then win on a weekly basis that means I/We did something right and have an idea of who and what needs to happen to win. sorry if I didnt win the SB yet.LOL

Buddy333
10-07-2012, 10:13 PM
Ojomo was suited up. The coaches must not think he is ready because I don't recall him being in the game.

slipknottin
10-07-2012, 10:14 PM
No, I see where you are coming from. I am just so frustrated with our lack of penetration this year that I think I see something that is attainable with JPP being converted, and with that OJOMO gets back in as well.

I agree with that, I just dont think moving JPP is a solution. JPP has been playing really well, just doesnt have the stats or the big plays yet. Tracy finally got some defensive snaps late this game, hopefully Ojomo gets a few soon. There has really been no push inside either, a push inside or at least some hands in the QB's face may get him to pull the ball back down and let the ends get to him.

It really did seem to me that the browns spent most of the game getting the ball out quick, and they did keep extra players into block nearly every play.

Coach Carter
10-07-2012, 10:15 PM
Its not brand new, we did it years ago with huge success. I say switch it up and we will kill'em all this season.

Wow, if I were a mod I would ban you for a month. Not because you want to switch to a 3-4, because you would move our best pass rusher from a 4-3 end to a 3-4 inside linebacker just to jump up and tip passes. Then you said it does not matter who you put at nose, when the most important position in the 3-4 defense is the nose - the person who needs to get double teamed every play for that defense to be effective.

Then to top it all off, you said you do this in real life with people's kids.

slipknottin
10-07-2012, 10:15 PM
Ojomo was suited up. The coaches must not think he is ready because I don't recall him being in the game.

played STs.

But how often do teams usually sit their all-pro DEs to play an undrafted rookie?

Not saying that I dont want to see Ojomo on the field, just that that is the logic there.

Rudyy
10-07-2012, 10:16 PM
Banks said on the post game that JPP and Tuck commented that teams are doing something different this year in their blocking schems, and that is taking away from the pass rush...I know the eagles did a lot of chipping but this can not be what they are talking about, it's not like thats some fresh new idea...anyone see or hear anything on what other teams are doing?That's what I'm trying to figure out. Last week, Vick pretty much got zero pressure. Meanwhile he's turning the ball over left and right when other teams play him. The Bucs put 34 on our D because Josh Freeman had all day. Meanwhile, he's playing absolutely terrible against other teams. The Carolina game is the only exception. So I'm seriously trying to figure out what the problem is.

TheEnigma
10-07-2012, 10:16 PM
There is this to be said as well. Canty is the only body big enough to take double teams, and he's out. And honestly, I think Canty did a lot more than most fans realize. He functioned like a 3-4 nose tackle, taking up bodies on the O-line, allowing Tuck to get to the QB.

I think Joseph would be a more ideal 3-4 NT than Canty. I worry that astute offensive linemen would take advantage of his height and easily get under his pads. Canty was a 3-4 DE with the Cowboys anyhow and would work well as the LDE while Austin (if he can reach his potential once more) could be good as a 3-4 DE possibly as well. There's just too many "if's" or "coulds" for me to be comfortable switching to a 3-4 with our linemen.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 10:17 PM
Which 3 defensive linemen would stay at the LOS? Remember that there is more pressure on those guys to occupy blockers for the linebackers to make plays. If we don't have enough big bodies who can also adequately rush the passer at all times, it would be an easy defense to defeat.I would say that it would be Tuck(t) Joeseph(nt) and Osi(t). Move JPP to an inside backer with Blackburn. Keep Kiwanuka and Boley on the outside.

Buddy333
10-07-2012, 10:20 PM
played STs. But how often do teams usually sit their all-pro DEs to play an undrafted rookie? Not saying that I dont want to see Ojomo on the field, just that that is the logic there.Not even at the end of the game though? Maybe get him some reps. Maybe even give one of the other guys a breather.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 10:20 PM
Wow, if I were a mod I would ban you for a month. Not because you want to switch to a 3-4, because you would move our best pass rusher from a 4-3 end to a 3-4 inside linebacker just to jump up and tip passes. Then you said it does not matter who you put at nose, when the most important position in the 3-4 defense is the nose - the person who needs to get double teamed every play for that defense to be effective.

Then to top it all off, you said you do this in real life with people's kids.Thanks for you vote of confidence. It is noted.(and I am being nice) note that.

TheEnigma
10-07-2012, 10:20 PM
I would say that it would be Tuck(t) Joeseph(nt) and Osi(t). Move JPP to an inside backer with Blackburn. Keep Kiwanuka and Boley on the outside.

Osi as a 3-4 DE? What % of the snaps would he have throughout a regular game? Do you expect him to hold up in the running game with his skillset against two possible linemen at a time?

slipknottin
10-07-2012, 10:21 PM
Not even at the end of the game though? Maybe get him some reps. Maybe even give one of the other guys a breather.

They had Tracy playing at the end of the game for awhile.

FlyingTruck
10-07-2012, 10:21 PM
It's not about keeping our guys fresh....it's not like there is any pressure during the beginning of the game either.

Rudyy
10-07-2012, 10:22 PM
It's not about keeping our guys fresh....it's not like there is any pressure during the beginning of the game either.True.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 10:23 PM
That's what I'm trying to figure out. Last week, Vick pretty much got zero pressure. Meanwhile he's turning the ball over left and right when other teams play him. The Bucs put 34 on our D because Josh Freeman had all day. Meanwhile, he's playing absolutely terrible against other teams. The Carolina game is the only exception. So I'm seriously trying to figure out what the problem is.See rudyy, I am not that far off the mark. we just straight up bull rush with no trickery, no schemes, no tom foolery. We do nothing that make the O-line of opposing teams scared or flinch. Our D-line is a joke for the most part when they say "just block the guy in front of you", well .........thats the guy you will block cause he is coming straight in.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 10:25 PM
Osi as a 3-4 DE? What % of the snaps would he have throughout a regular game? Do you expect him to hold up in the running game with his skillset against two possible linemen at a time?with PF bringing a blitz with even just 1 LB a snap(change'em up) Olineman wouldnt have a clue of who to block. I think we would fair better with my scheme. By no means am I NFL caliber, but the Giants are way to predictable on O and D now.

Buddy333
10-07-2012, 10:26 PM
It wold be great if the could get back a bunch of guys next week. I think Bernard was missed today. They cold also use Rivers and Hosely.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 10:26 PM
It's not about keeping our guys fresh....it's not like there is any pressure during the beginning of the game either.What do you mean no pressure at beginning of the game? just asking.

TheEnigma
10-07-2012, 10:29 PM
with PF bringing a blitz with even just 1 LB a snap(change'em up) Olineman wouldnt have a clue of who to block. I think we would fair better with my scheme. By no means am I NFL caliber, but the Giants are way to predictable on O and D now.

He's only 255lbs though. I don't see how he could make much of an impact if heavens forbid a Guard got a good block on him. Wouldn't you say that he would be better suited as a 3-4 OLB with his speed off the edge and could take advantage of bigger linemen absorbing blockers?

Toadofsteel
10-07-2012, 10:29 PM
It wold be great if the could get back a bunch of guys next week. I think Bernard was missed today. They cold also use Rivers and Hosely.

Not to mention Canty (though he's still on PUP through the SF game). Talk about unsung hero... I'm pretty sure that Canty is the power behind the pass rush. Tuck and Osi look so gassed and JPP is getting all the double teams.

Rudyy
10-07-2012, 10:29 PM
What do you mean no pressure at beginning of the game? just asking.The defense wasn't getting pressure in the beginning, so you can't make the excuse that they were "tired", since they were already sucking at the get go, haha.

Die-Hard
10-07-2012, 10:31 PM
Yes I know they dont have the players for a 3-4. But in my opinion they do. move bernard to NT and JPP to Inside LB and there you have it. Just MHO.

Bernard at NT? No offense, but thats insane. He's not the kind of player that can eat up a C/G by himself. Teams would run right at him all day with huge success. Hypothetically, I can see JPP at ILB. He's certainly fast enough and has just the right size and power for the position.

Overall though, a 3-4 would never work for the personnel we now have, and they would NEVER attempt a switch in the middle of a season. You'd have to teach the entire defense a brand new scheme on the fly, and thats not happening.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 10:34 PM
He's only 255lbs though. I don't see how he could make much of an impact if heavens forbid a Guard got a good block on him. Wouldn't you say that he would be better suited as a 3-4 OLB with his speed off the edge and could take advantage of bigger linemen absorbing blockers?I really agree with you on that. So, now that I have you on board somewhat, even though not 100% I would rather Boley and Kiwanuka be on the outside for pass plays. Trust me I would love to see the Giants switch LB positions every play if not only to confuse the O line. We did it with MAJOR success with the 86 Giants! I believe that adding JPP to the LB Corps would give us a HUGE advantage.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 10:38 PM
Bernard at NT? No offense, but thats insane. He's not the kind of player that can eat up a C/G by himself. Teams would run right at him all day with huge success. Hypothetically, I can see JPP at ILB. He's certainly fast enough and has just the right size and power for the position.

Overall though, a 3-4 would never work for the personnel we now have, and they would NEVER attempt a switch in the middle of a season. You'd have to teach the entire defense a brand new scheme on the fly, and thats not happening.I dont think it is that hard to convert to a 3-4 vice a 4-3. I have done it with great success in lower leagues with almost no reprecussion changing our D look multiple times during a game. Not sure how NFL guys cant do that since our Secondary has many different shemes and adapt just fine. front 7 should be the same.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 10:41 PM
If we go into a game and the opposing team expects a 4-3 and we show a 3-4 they will go beserk. If we have the ability to change it periodically throughout the game they will be so confused they wont have a clue. Switch crap up and see what happens. they have been trained on our 4-3, they end up seeing a 3-4 and then keep switching they will be so confused we just end up killing every play cause they have no idea who to block.

FIFTY6G-MAN
10-07-2012, 10:44 PM
Its the samthing as running a 4-3, dropping a DE into coverage and blitzing a CB. In the scheme I have in mind the O-line has no idea what they are facing on any given play. Simple.

alentown pa
10-07-2012, 10:54 PM
That is not fantasy football. It was Pop Warner football. Yeah it is not anything much, but when you take a given group of kids, put them into a position, train them, condition them and then win on a weekly basis that means I/We did something right and have an idea of who and what needs to happen to win. sorry if I didnt win the SB yet.LOL

I was just kidding, lol..I played football from the time I was 6 until I graduated college from a small division 1AA school in the northeast and I can honestly say the coaches from my pop warner team were prbly the best if you could believe that....anyway good luck with coaching and with all due respect your crazy if you think OSI could play on the tackle in the 3-4.

idiotekniQues
10-08-2012, 12:15 AM
Really why is that? What do you know that we dont at this time? Cute is not a word I would describe our D getting handed an az whooping every week. We do not have a Dline that does anything but show me a line of blue on the TV every week. Last 2 games =zero penetration. That in itself is weak!


it's one of the silliest suggestions ever. it's completely asinine to switch defensive schemes in such a significant way during a season from a 4-3 to 3-4. it takes offseason moves to adjust and acquire players and coaching such a drastic change. it totally ridiculous.