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View Full Version : Kruunch's Take (Browns Game)



Kruunch
10-09-2012, 09:07 AM
Was making merry on Monday so a little late with this. Without further ado and in no particular order:

1) 2008 called ... they want their Ahmad Bradshaw back. I like when he runs mad!

2) 2003 called ... they want Ahmad Bradshaw to hold it high and tight.

3) CRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUZ! What a great story. I will be so mad if this kid doesn't retire a Giant.

4) Offensive line starting to come together. Now let's see them do it against a team with a pass rush.

5) Our defense is seriously bad. Not mediocre. Bad. JPP continues to be the only consistent presence on the line (although that may be selling Joseph a bit short)

6) Stevie Brown is the next Polamalu. You heard it here first (if you're going to jump on the bandwagon, might as well do it while the good seats are still available ;) )

7) Eli looks like he has kidney stones when leading in the 4th quarter.

8) Chase Blackburn is our 3rd corner? Who knew?!

9) Rolle was so out of position it would have cost him extra postage if he mailed it in. If we pay him $10 mil a year could he stop playing linebacker?

10) Welcome to the NFL David Wilson!

slipknottin
10-09-2012, 09:12 AM
When was Rolle out of position? I actually thought the browns game was one of Rolle's best performances as a safety

Kruunch
10-09-2012, 09:15 AM
When was Rolle out of position? I actually thought the browns game was one of Rolle's best performances as a safety

Did you not see the TD catch with Chase Blackburn playing slot nickel (inadvertently)?

Rolle is a great run stuffer and blitzer ... he's down right awful when he's playing .... errr .... the Safety position.

slipknottin
10-09-2012, 09:16 AM
Did you not see the TD catch with Chase Blackburn playing slot nickel (inadvertently)?

Rolle is a great run stuffer and blitzer ... he's down right awful when he's playing .... errr .... the Safety position.

Yes, it was a tampa 2. Blackburn was supposed to drive deep middle, Rolle responsible for the other side of the field.

Stevie Brown had deep responsibility for that side of the field, but had come up on a short route instead.

That play is solely Stevie Brown's fault

Kruunch
10-09-2012, 09:18 AM
Yes, it was a tampa 2. Blackburn was supposed to drive deep middle, Rolle responsible for the other side of the field.

Stevie Brown had deep responsibility for that side of the field, but had come up on a short route instead.

That play is solely Stevie Brown's fault

We'll agree to disagree then.

And Tampa 2 != Cover 3. Blackburn was in perfect position (for his assignment).

slipknottin
10-09-2012, 09:20 AM
We'll agree to disagree then.

And Tampa 2 != Cover 3. Blackburn was in perfect position (for his assignment).

Yes, blackburn was in perfect position. So was Rolle.

Stevie Brown was not.

giantsfam04
10-09-2012, 09:30 AM
Agreed, Stevie bit on the under route when he should have been playing deep. that is not on rolle. stevie even admitted he was out of position. Also to say Stevie Brown is the next Polamalu is a joke right?

slipknottin
10-09-2012, 09:34 AM
I need to watch it when the game tape comes out, but that second TD pass to Josh Gordon may have been partially Stevie Brown's fault too. Looked like Webster was playing outside in a cover 4, and Gordon ran a skinny post. Any inside route Brown has to try to jump as well, he was a couple steps late. Though in that case Webster certainly needs to make a play there too

gumby74
10-09-2012, 09:48 AM
I'm surprised that Randle coming up big for us isn't more of a story. Both himself and Hixon were a lot more impressive than Cruz was.

giantsfam04
10-09-2012, 10:03 AM
I'm surprised that Randle coming up big for us isn't more of a story. Both himself and Hixon were a lot more impressive than Cruz was.

You are right especially Hixon, after the 2 surgeries being able to climb the ladder on that high throw from Eli was nice.

TuckandRolle
10-09-2012, 10:11 AM
Did you not see the TD catch with Chase Blackburn playing slot nickel (inadvertently)?

Rolle is a great run stuffer and blitzer ... he's down right awful when he's playing .... errr .... the Safety position.

That TD was Brown's fault, not Rolle's

Kruunch
10-09-2012, 10:48 AM
That TD was Brown's fault, not Rolle's

Here's the thing about that ... deep middle route against a Tampa 2 defense are going to get the attention of:

A) The veteran safety.

B) The rookie 4th string safety

It wasn't a sideline pass ... either safety had range on the middle of the field and the veteran usually is assigned the greater range if a toss up. So yeah, I say it's Rolle's fault more than the 4th string rookie's.

But you say tomato, I say beet. Shrug.

Kruunch
10-09-2012, 10:49 AM
I'm surprised that Randle coming up big for us isn't more of a story. Both himself and Hixon were a lot more impressive than Cruz was.

Hard to talk about Randle in a three TD performance by Cruz.

But yeah it was really nice seeing him contribute Sunday (I expect that level of contribution from Hixon when healthy).

TroyArcher
10-09-2012, 11:28 AM
We'll agree to disagree then.

And Tampa 2 != Cover 3. Blackburn was in perfect position (for his assignment).

Brown admitted it was his fault, classy move but don't do it again.

TroyArcher
10-09-2012, 11:30 AM
Linebackers were absolutely horrible behind an equally horrible d-line. I saw Kiwi get knocked down by a WR on a run his way. You can add Kiwi to the list of under-achievers in 2012. I don't get the Eli comment. Bradshaw is tough, I do agree he should do the Tiki.

burier
10-09-2012, 11:36 AM
Our linebackers suck.

Oh and Micheal Boley? Michael Boley? I told you guys last season he was playing out of his mind and that we shouldn't assume he'll double up. And for the people who lov Kiwi at linebacker....I didn't see him doing too much "funneling" sunday. He's as much a non-factor at backer as Tuck and Osi are at end.

EnragedYouth85
10-09-2012, 11:40 AM
Here's the thing about that ... deep middle route against a Tampa 2 defense are going to get the attention of:

A) The veteran safety.

B) The rookie 4th string safety

It wasn't a sideline pass ... either safety had range on the middle of the field and the veteran usually is assigned the greater range if a toss up. So yeah, I say it's Rolle's fault more than the 4th string rookie's.

But you say tomato, I say beet. Shrug.

I got what your saying, Rolle is a veteran but when your playing cover 2, you have one side of the field and Brown has the other. Brown dropped down into a short route leaving Rolle to cover the whole deep part of the field? I don't think so.. Rolle was covering his portion, seen what was happening and tried to get over to Browns side but couldnt in time.

Buddy333
10-09-2012, 11:41 AM
Did Brown really have a good game? He intercepted a poorly thrown ball and picked up a fumble caused by Hill. Right place at the right time I suppose. Well except for maybe those 2 TD's.

EnragedYouth85
10-09-2012, 11:45 AM
Did Brown really have a good game? He intercepted a poorly thrown ball and picked up a fumble caused by Hill. Right place at the right time I suppose. Well except for maybe those 2 TD's.

Isn't being at the right place at the right time, doing your job?

Toadofsteel
10-09-2012, 11:49 AM
I think our offensive line will hold up vs the 49ers. They kept the Eagles to 0 sacks on Eli. Part of that was on Eli's superhuman pocket presence, part of it was Bennett being kept in to block all the time (which is what we got him to do). I think we will frustrate SF's defense a lot more than people realize. Eli is the most patient QB in the NFL. He's not going to force it in a bad position if he can help it.

It all comes down to whose defense shows up to play. Hopefully Tuck and Osi can wake up. JPP (and to some extent Linval) are the only ones on the d-line doing anything. Hopefully Hosley and Prince both play their A-game, so PF feels like he can send a blitzer from time to time.

Also, Alex Smith may not be Michael *****, but he can still take off if you lose contain. Osi, you're on notice...

EnragedYouth85
10-09-2012, 12:00 PM
I think our offensive line will hold up vs the 49ers. They kept the Eagles to 0 sacks on Eli. Part of that was on Eli's superhuman pocket presence, part of it was Bennett being kept in to block all the time (which is what we got him to do). I think we will frustrate SF's defense a lot more than people realize. Eli is the most patient QB in the NFL. He's not going to force it in a bad position if he can help it.

It all comes down to whose defense shows up to play. Hopefully Tuck and Osi can wake up. JPP (and to some extent Linval) are the only ones on the d-line doing anything. Hopefully Hosley and Prince both play their A-game, so PF feels like he can send a blitzer from time to time.

Also, Alex Smith may not be Michael *****, but he can still take off if you lose contain. Osi, you're on notice...

Osi has been on notice all year. He complained and begged for more money and he's playing his worst football I've ever seen! I think he's gone this year. Too much money, too little effort. We have rookies and backups that can do what he's doing for 1/4 of what he's making.

Kruunch
10-09-2012, 12:14 PM
I got what your saying, Rolle is a veteran but when your playing cover 2, you have one side of the field and Brown has the other. Brown dropped down into a short route leaving Rolle to cover the whole deep part of the field? I don't think so.. Rolle was covering his portion, seen what was happening and tried to get over to Browns side but couldnt in time.

It was a deep seam route. There was no "side". It was the middle of the field. Normally in that scenario either the Safeties have an understanding or it defaults to the veteran.

Brown saying it was his fault is a nice sound bite from a guy trying to stay on the team and a stand up move ... but it wasn't his fault.

Rolle is an excellent linebacker. Unfortunately that's not his position.

Kruunch
10-09-2012, 12:15 PM
Did Brown really have a good game? He intercepted a poorly thrown ball and picked up a fumble caused by Hill. Right place at the right time I suppose. Well except for maybe those 2 TD's.

That first interception he came out of nowhere for though. Pretty nice move. With limited liability he did a good job.

That reference to him being the next Polamalu was a joke.

Kruunch
10-09-2012, 12:18 PM
Osi has been on notice all year. He complained and begged for more money and he's playing his worst football I've ever seen! I think he's gone this year. Too much money, too little effort. We have rookies and backups that can do what he's doing for 1/4 of what he's making.

Glad to know I'm not the only one hoping to see more Ojomo in the near future.

EnragedYouth85
10-09-2012, 12:25 PM
It was a deep seam route. There was no "side". It was the middle of the field. Normally in that scenario either the Safeties have an understanding or it defaults to the veteran.

Brown saying it was his fault is a nice sound bite from a guy trying to stay on the team and a stand up move ... but it wasn't his fault.

Rolle is an excellent linebacker. Unfortunately that's not his position.

Well we won't know until game film, maybe Rolle was covering a deep route on his side? Broke off that to try to help out Blackburn but didn't in time.. we will never know :D


Glad to know I'm not the only one hoping to see more Ojomo in the near future.

Why not, he has a reason to try.. and he makes a hell of a lot less...

NYGfanNC
10-09-2012, 12:52 PM
Yes, it was a tampa 2. Blackburn was supposed to drive deep middle, Rolle responsible for the other side of the field.

Stevie Brown had deep responsibility for that side of the field, but had come up on a short route instead.

That play is solely Stevie Brown's fault

Yea, I saw that thinking Rolle was out of position. Stevie admited that it was his fault.

slipknottin
10-09-2012, 01:36 PM
It was a deep seam route. There was no "side". It was the middle of the field. Normally in that scenario either the Safeties have an understanding or it defaults to the veteran.

What are you talking about? the slot WR ran a corner route, the safety on the other side of the field will never get there.

You are wrong. That play is Brown's mistake.

Saying another player should be doing someone else's job instead of his own is even more incorrect.

Kruunch
10-09-2012, 01:38 PM
What are you talking about? the slot WR ran a corner route, the safety on the other side of the field will never get there.

You are wrong. That play is Brown's mistake.

Saying another player should be doing someone else's job instead of his own is even more incorrect.

If it was a corner route then why was the receiver running a deep middle seam? We talking about the same play?

I could very well be wrong ... as I said earlier, many times the safeties talk and understand who is going to be covering the gray area of the field on a given play. I just have a hard time seeing the last guy being the 4th string rookie, when we have a "star" veteran there.

slipknottin
10-09-2012, 01:43 PM
If it was a corner route then why was the receiver running a deep middle seam? We talking about the same play?

Its not a seam, he is running a corner route, he just turns up field once he clears the safety instead of continuing towards the corner. He is outside the numbers when he reaches the endzone.

Sorry man, but even Brown has said it was his fault. Let it go. Brown is not Polamalu, and Rolle is not at fault on this play.

And you know I am no Rolle homer.

EnragedYouth85
10-09-2012, 01:44 PM
As you can see by this video, the pass is clearly on Browns side of the field. You can also see Brown way up on the short route when he should be been playing deep..

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap2000000071769/WK-5-Can-t-Miss-Play-Gordon-62-yard-TD

TheEnigma
10-09-2012, 01:49 PM
As you can see by this video, the pass is clearly on Browns side of the field. You can also see Brown way up on the short route when he should be been playing deep..

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap2000000071769/WK-5-Can-t-Miss-Play-Gordon-62-yard-TD

That's one of those plays that makes you appreciate KP because he is rarely out of position and shines in covering the deep end of the field.

EnragedYouth85
10-09-2012, 01:53 PM
That's one of those plays that makes you appreciate KP because he is rarely out of position and shines in covering the deep end of the field.

Yup, this is in no way, Rolles fault as previously stated..

TheEnigma
10-09-2012, 01:57 PM
Yup, this is in no way, Rolles fault as previously stated..

Even with this mistake on Brown that led to the touchdown, he overall had a decent game. I'm not sure how much credit I really want to give to Brown for the INT since it was more of a "Weeden Mistake" than a Brown play. I'm just thankful it's not C.C. Brown or Aaron Rouse back there while we wait for KP to return.

EnragedYouth85
10-09-2012, 02:06 PM
Even with this mistake on Brown that led to the touchdown, he overall had a decent game. I'm not sure how much credit I really want to give to Brown for the INT since it was more of a "Weeden Mistake" than a Brown play. I'm just thankful it's not C.C. Brown or Aaron Rouse back there while we wait for KP to return.

Yeah Brown had a pretty decent game, that was the only glaring mistake I seen by him and he coughed up to it. He will learn and only get better. He is a way better backup then CC Brown and Ross.. KP needs to come back soon though, he's a badass back there! :)

lamas
10-09-2012, 03:06 PM
If it was a corner route then why was the receiver running a deep middle seam? We talking about the same play?

I could very well be wrong ... as I said earlier, many times the safeties talk and understand who is going to be covering the gray area of the field on a given play. I just have a hard time seeing the last guy being the 4th string rookie, when we have a "star" veteran there.

Second time you said "4th string rookie"...you know Stevie Brown is a third year player, right?

burier
10-09-2012, 03:19 PM
to be fair to the OPs analysis it did "Look" like rolle was out of position on that play.

slipknottin
10-09-2012, 03:21 PM
to be fair to the OPs analysis it did "Look" like rolle was out of position on that play.

The announcers blamed it Rolle too.

Generally when you have players chasing a guy and far behind, it wasent their fault.

Kruunch
10-09-2012, 04:41 PM
Second time you said "4th string rookie"...you know Stevie Brown is a third year player, right?

First start though no?

I understand that that doesn't make him a true rookie ... was just trying to illustrate a point.

lamas
10-09-2012, 04:46 PM
First start though no?

I understand that that doesn't make him a true rookie ... was just trying to illustrate a point.

Second. He started the last game of his rookie year in 2010.

I'm not trying to split hairs with you. I enjoy reading 'Kruunch's Take', but wanted to correct you on this.

giantsfan420
10-09-2012, 07:07 PM
Our linebackers suck.

Oh and Micheal Boley? Michael Boley? I told you guys last season he was playing out of his mind and that we shouldn't assume he'll double up. And for the people who lov Kiwi at linebacker....I didn't see him doing too much "funneling" sunday. He's as much a non-factor at backer as Tuck and Osi are at end.


u do realize boley has 3 ints and is like 2nd in the nfl for ints...he almost had 1 vs philly (honestly he should have had that pass to celek that split double coverage) and iirc almost had one vs cleveland...guys been hurt, he still aint 100% and he's made a helluva an impact. so far he's prob our d mvp bc his 3 ints have just about been the only time we've stopped opponents drives before scoring

giantsfan420
10-09-2012, 07:08 PM
First start though no?

I understand that that doesn't make him a true rookie ... was just trying to illustrate a point.

lol no u werent, u were wrong but i applaud the attempt

giantsfan420
10-09-2012, 07:10 PM
That's one of those plays that makes you appreciate KP because he is rarely out of position and shines in covering the deep end of the field.

didnt he like not allow a pass to go over him for a td last yr or something? i remember reading a helluva stat on his coverage last season

giantsfan420
10-09-2012, 07:13 PM
As you can see by this video, the pass is clearly on Browns side of the field. You can also see Brown way up on the short route when he should be been playing deep..

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap2000000071769/WK-5-Can-t-Miss-Play-Gordon-62-yard-TD

yeah but the wr aligned presnap on rolles side. i'd say it was just a bad play call and bad play by both safeties. rolle wasnt like chasing hm 10 yds away, he was virtually a step behind. the route prob developed on rolles 1/2 of the field, which is understandable for brown making his mistake bc he prob felt he had no one threaten his responsibility and moved up to cover the shorter route, which can sometimes actually be a savvy move by a S (but also can lead to getting burnt deep)....it was just a great play call and great throw vs a defense that wasnt properly ready to defend it...lets not forget, it was a PA and the pass rush shoulda gotten there as well

giantsfan420
10-09-2012, 07:15 PM
Its not a seam, he is running a corner route, he just turns up field once he clears the safety instead of continuing towards the corner. He is outside the numbers when he reaches the endzone.

Sorry man, but even Brown has said it was his fault. Let it go. Brown is not Polamalu, and Rolle is not at fault on this play.

And you know I am no Rolle homer.

wasnt it a post route or am i confusing plays?

slipknottin
10-09-2012, 08:28 PM
yeah but the wr aligned presnap on rolles side.

That doesnt matter, Rolles responsibility was to be the deepest player on his side of the field, which he did.

Brown did not.

It may have been designed as a post route, but once Brown came up, he bent the route outwards to keep yardage on Rolle.

giantsfan420
10-09-2012, 08:33 PM
yeah i know it doesnt matter in terms of play responsibility. but i believe that in the post that u erased the context of that statement, i stated that he aligned to rolles side, and the route developed on rolles side. which is then easy to understand how brown could have lost sight of his responsibility. it was browns gaffe, but i can understand why he made it. sometimes the S can get an int when doing what he did, we just didnt have coverage on Gordon.
Thats why i guess i said overall it was really just a good play call that caught us off guard, and thats why i put some blame to rolle as well...it wasnt like rolle was trailing him by 10 yds, he was pretty much a step or two trailing the entire way really...but i know the alignment presnap doesnt matter in terms of what the defensive responsibilities are...

slipknottin
10-09-2012, 08:38 PM
Well players dont usually make mistakes for poor reasons, either they dont get the play properly, or they dont realize what they should be doing.

Rolle never gained on him because the WR bent the route outwards away from him, Rolle had a lot of ground to make up, plus Rolle could not originally just forget about his assignment and run over to help stevie brown out.

giantsfan420
10-09-2012, 08:40 PM
true

slipknottin
10-10-2012, 11:49 AM
Just talked to a former nfl DB. (Matt Bowen) he looked at the second passing TD and agreed that was Stevie Browns fault.

So Brown was solely responsible for both passing TDs allowed.