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View Full Version : Game Management 101 (2nd week now)



sheepdip
10-10-2012, 12:46 PM
Please educate me someone

When your leading in the 3rd quarter by 17 points, should you be calling 3 straight pass plays ?? All of them turned out to be incomplete and took no time off the clock and also you never know pick 6 and new game. Now a lot of you will jump and say well we won the game who cares. Well yes this is true but it was the Browns and not Pats or Falcons or some other team that can get it going on offense. This to me is just bad game management and this somehow reminds me of Buddy Ryan punching Killdrive years ago ????. or the eagles game that I will never forget a few years back.

There just isnt a need for 3 straight passes. I am not saying you cant pass with lead but on a day your running the ball effectively or at least if not, with a lead its something that you should be working on anyways as we struggled at times this year running. Quick turn over of downs and stopping clock is just terrible game management in my opinion. Run once and than twice and pass on 3rd down. Seems simple to me ? i guess they like to over think things.

At least when you run 1 or 2 times you have a chance for positive yardage and take time off clock and perhaps even get a 1st down. Gives the defense a rest and lessons the distance for a 3rd down attempt.

I don't know maybe I don't understand simple football.

Hopefully our coaches look back and realize this (probably wont) and that it doesnt get us in a big game. lets face it, our D isnt playing like other years where we could rely on them.

GMan-67
10-10-2012, 01:08 PM
god you hate THE BEST offensive coordinator ever in Giants history ... we scored 41 points

and teams this past week that were satisfied settling for long FGs to win instead of trying to advance the ball further, all lost, so while our execution at the end of Philly was poor (well poor from a concussed player) ... our attack mode strategy was spot on

in this league, if you take your foot off the pedal ... you lose ... if the D puts 8 or 9 in the box, you dont bang your head against the wall ... you take what they give

and finally, what has been pointed out a million times ... Eli changes plays ... helloooo, he's not one of these game manager QBs that has no choice but to run the play that is called

Diamondring
10-10-2012, 01:10 PM
You can run 3 times in a row and still have to punt the ball. Moving the chains takes time off the clock. o more.

giantsfam04
10-10-2012, 01:13 PM
I was thinking the same thing when I saw that series. There are several things that go into this though, Eli has a lot of control when it comes to the plays. He may have checked out of a run because he saw a matchup he liked or based on what the d was doing decided to throw it. One thing I did notice during the game was on Bradshaw's td run in the 2nd quarter, where the checks Eli was making I don't think I ever heard any qb point out the will or safety.

sheepdip
10-10-2012, 03:06 PM
god you hate THE BEST offensive coordinator ever in Giants history ... we scored 41 points

and teams this past week that were satisfied settling for long FGs to win instead of trying to advance the ball further, all lost, so while our execution at the end of Philly was poor (well poor from a concussed player) ... our attack mode strategy was spot on

in this league, if you take your foot off the pedal ... you lose ... if the D puts 8 or 9 in the box, you dont bang your head against the wall ... you take what they give

and finally, what has been pointed out a million times ... Eli changes plays ... helloooo, he's not one of these game manager QBs that has no choice but to run the play that is called

Your comparisons are off. We werent leading by a FG. We were leading by 17. Also you mentioned philly game and defending the Gm management and play calling. I dont know where you have been but even the coaches second guessed there strategy on that.

Also if you are going to check out of run for the sake of passing than we shouldnt be hitting something then. They werent in a total run defense commit 8 or 9. I disagree with your reply.

sheepdip
10-10-2012, 03:11 PM
You can run 3 times in a row and still have to punt the ball. Moving the chains takes time off the clock. o more.

When you run 3 times at least you take time off the clock and at least gain some positive yardage, throwing 3 in-completes helps the other team actually.

Isnt this common sense.

I didnt say run 3 times punt for the rest of the game but I was a little shocked than with a decent lead we threw 3 straight incompletions. Whereas we could have slipped in a run or 2 and throw on 3rd.

BlueBlooded1979
10-10-2012, 05:01 PM
In the 3rd quarter you keep running your offense unless you really need to score points. Bottling up gives the other team hope that you will settle for a little field position before giving them back the ball. Their QB will know he can take chances and have a shot to win. If you keep playing the way that got you to 17 up you will probably win the game.

njg85m
10-10-2012, 05:04 PM
When you run 3 times at least you take time off the clock and at least gain some positive yardage, throwing 3 in-completes helps the other team actually.

Isnt this common sense.

Do you think the pass plays were called because we wanted incompletions?

yatitle
10-10-2012, 05:10 PM
Please educate me someone

When your leading in the 3rd quarter by 17 points, should you be calling 3 straight pass plays ?? All of them turned out to be incomplete and took no time off the clock and also you never know pick 6 and new game. Now a lot of you will jump and say well we won the game who cares. Well yes this is true but it was the Browns and not Pats or Falcons or some other team that can get it going on offense. This to me is just bad game management and this somehow reminds me of Buddy Ryan punching Killdrive years ago ????. or the eagles game that I will never forget a few years back.

There just isnt a need for 3 straight passes. I am not saying you cant pass with lead but on a day your running the ball effectively or at least if not, with a lead its something that you should be working on anyways as we struggled at times this year running. Quick turn over of downs and stopping clock is just terrible game management in my opinion. Run once and than twice and pass on 3rd down. Seems simple to me ? i guess they like to over think things.

At least when you run 1 or 2 times you have a chance for positive yardage and take time off clock and perhaps even get a 1st down. Gives the defense a rest and lessons the distance for a 3rd down attempt.

I don't know maybe I don't understand simple football.

Hopefully our coaches look back and realize this (probably wont) and that it doesnt get us in a big game. lets face it, our D isnt playing like other years where we could rely on them.

While you might have a point about the time management, evoking Buddy Ryan to back up your argument loses you all credibility. Fat Buddy (much like his fat son Rob and his once fat son Rex) never had a clue about offense. Had he figured out that no matter how good your defense is you still need to outscore the opponent to win , the Eagles SB trophy case might not be empty today.

GMan-67
10-10-2012, 05:37 PM
Your comparisons are off. We werent leading by a FG. We were leading by 17. Also you mentioned philly game and defending the Gm management and play calling. I dont know where you have been but even the coaches second guessed there strategy on that.

Also if you are going to check out of run for the sake of passing than we shouldnt be hitting something then. They werent in a total run defense commit 8 or 9. I disagree with your reply.

so we abandoned the run then, but still ran for over 200 yards .. man, sheep, i know those blinders you have are permanently affixed to your head, but you may want to see about getting them removed somehow

GiantRoc
10-10-2012, 05:42 PM
Well yes this is true but it was the Browns and not Pats or Falcons or some other team that can get it going on offense. .

This one sentance is an important one. You can not discount the fact that the strength of an opponent is a big factor in play calling decisions. I think the fact we ran the crap out of the ball was also a factor. If the D stacks against the run, adjustments have to be made. Eli makes calls based on what he sees set up infront of him. Sometimes we just don't exacute the plays properly or a defender makes a good play. If not we would never lose. Play calling got us to a 17 point lead. No sense abandoning the offense that got us there, (run or pass). The blunder at the end of the Philly game is a different situation. I have a feeling that kinda thing will never happen again.

GMENAGAIN
10-10-2012, 05:43 PM
While you might have a point about the time management, evoking Buddy Ryan to back up your argument loses you all credibility. Fat Buddy (much like his fat son Rob and his once fat son Rex) never had a clue about offense. Had he figured out that no matter how good your defense is you still need to outscore the opponent to win , the Eagles SB trophy case might not be empty today.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Buddy Ryan sucker-punched Gilbride in a game that the Oilers won 24-0 and in a year where Gilbride's offense was one of the best in the league.

The only reason that Buddy Ryan punched Gilbride is that Buddy is a fat idiot. To imply that Gilbride somehow deserved it is just ignorant.

slipknottin
10-10-2012, 05:44 PM
Eli can change from a run to pass on any play. The giants offense is built to take advantage of whatever the defense shows.

If the browns bring a safety up into the box, the correct play is to pass. That doesn't always mean it will work, but that's how it's designed

And frankly, putting the ball in Eli's hands in any scenario is not a bad thing

CowboysSuck
10-10-2012, 05:57 PM
You play a game to win and you score points to win. You DO NOT play a game "not to lose".

That mentality will bite you in the *** 9 times out of 10. Unless there is 3 or 4 minutes left and a comeback is mathematically inconceivable, you keep pressing.

Drez
10-10-2012, 06:39 PM
Why is it that only morons bring up Buddy Ryan punching Gilbride?

njersey
10-10-2012, 09:27 PM
Please educate me someone

When your leading in the 3rd quarter by 17 points, should you be calling 3 straight pass plays ?? All of them turned out to be incomplete and took no time off the clock and also you never know pick 6 and new game. Now a lot of you will jump and say well we won the game who cares. Well yes this is true but it was the Browns and not Pats or Falcons or some other team that can get it going on offense. This to me is just bad game management and this somehow reminds me of Buddy Ryan punching Killdrive years ago ????. or the eagles game that I will never forget a few years back.

There just isnt a need for 3 straight passes. I am not saying you cant pass with lead but on a day your running the ball effectively or at least if not, with a lead its something that you should be working on anyways as we struggled at times this year running. Quick turn over of downs and stopping clock is just terrible game management in my opinion. Run once and than twice and pass on 3rd down. Seems simple to me ? i guess they like to over think things.

At least when you run 1 or 2 times you have a chance for positive yardage and take time off clock and perhaps even get a 1st down. Gives the defense a rest and lessons the distance for a 3rd down attempt.

I don't know maybe I don't understand simple football.

Hopefully our coaches look back and realize this (probably wont) and that it doesnt get us in a big game. lets face it, our D isnt playing like other years where we could rely on them.


Eli often changes plays at the line according to what he sees on the defense. I'm sure he knows what he is doing.

SweetZombieJesus
10-10-2012, 09:42 PM
I attribute it to two things:

(1) the defense expect you to run so keep them honest and/orr off balance
(2) being aggressive and going for even more points

However, the reasons you run in this situation are not just that you kill the clock but it's demoralizing and exhausting for the defense to try to stop run plays down after down after down.

Of course this greed of going for more through the air lost us the Philly game

offingmoot
10-11-2012, 01:50 AM
I was thinking the same thing when I saw that series. There are several things that go into this though, Eli has a lot of control when it comes to the plays. He may have checked out of a run because he saw a matchup he liked or based on what the d was doing decided to throw it. One thing I did notice during the game was on Bradshaw's td run in the 2nd quarter, where the checks Eli was making I don't think I ever heard any qb point out the will or safety.

Funny you should mention that! I noticed too and commented to my wife that i had never heard it b4.... It was ironic cause i was just briefly explaining why eli would say 52 is the mike

PRGiant
10-11-2012, 02:31 AM
Third quarter is too early to think like that.

Rat_bastich
10-11-2012, 02:41 AM
Third quarter is too early to think like that.

Exactly, you still have another quarter to drive the knife in deeper. Prevent defenses and conservative offenses should be saved until you the very end of the game. The offense was having their way with Cleveland, but still it was too early to run the clock down.

Marvelousmik
10-11-2012, 02:44 AM
god you hate THE BEST offensive coordinator ever in Giants history ... we scored 41 points

and teams this past week that were satisfied settling for long FGs to win instead of trying to advance the ball further, all lost, so while our execution at the end of Philly was poor (well poor from a concussed player) ... our attack mode strategy was spot on

in this league, if you take your foot off the pedal ... you lose ... if the D puts 8 or 9 in the box, you dont bang your head against the wall ... you take what they give

and finally, what has been pointed out a million times ... Eli changes plays ... helloooo, he's not one of these game manager QBs that has no choice but to run the play that is called

spot on

giantsfan420
10-11-2012, 02:50 AM
ppl dont seem to understand KG's pass to setup the run...yeah, it means we'll have a few 3 n outs, but it also means that we're forcing the D to respect our ability to pass on any down, which in essence opens up running lanes. We prob went 3 n out that drive, but I'd bet we drove the field on the next one or at least had a few first downs with some good runs

giantsfan420
10-11-2012, 02:51 AM
and if anything im glad KG didnt go straight into a run run pass shell (see meadowlands meltdown 2)...we should be doing whatever the defense isnt set to defend all game, not just when we're in the lead. cleveland and other teams will keep stacking the box late in games when trailing if u dont threaten them with the pass, making the running game stagnant.

giantsfan420
10-11-2012, 02:58 AM
When you run 3 times at least you take time off the clock and at least gain some positive yardage, throwing 3 in-completes helps the other team actually.

Isnt this common sense.

I didnt say run 3 times punt for the rest of the game but I was a little shocked than with a decent lead we threw 3 straight incompletions. Whereas we could have slipped in a run or 2 and throw on 3rd.
no it isnt. u assume that running the ball magically gains us yardage. if the d is ready for the run, ur looking at no gain or loss of yardage, how many times do wee see that. kg passes to setup the run. he's constantly planning ahead and setting traps. the d has to drop their safeties off in coverage when we show we will pass on any down.

MrDenmark
10-11-2012, 05:19 AM
Funny thread really. Oh the team did something you wouldn't have done yourself? Shocker!!

I always assume that the OC and the teams knows a lot more about the situation that I do, sitting in my couch far from the game.

Second thing is, we are completing roughly 2/3 of our passes. So throwing 3 times when the defense is favoring run stuffing is actually a pretty solid idea. So even though it didn't work this time, it was a chance worth taking as I see it.

Finally, we are talking about the third quarter up by 17. Way too soon to be defending the lead. Didn't we score 25 points in the 4th quarter alone quite recently?