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View Full Version : It's not just about SACKS



GMan-67
10-10-2012, 12:52 PM
ok, by their own admission and by TCs admission the stud DEs are under performing

but, we do need to take a step back and look at other things beyond sacks

if a QB takes a 3 step drop and immediately throws a slant ...there is no way to get a sack, for example

Eli has only been sacked 4 times and we are not a west coast offense, dink and dunk team, we are always looking to throw it downfield and we take 5-7 step drops and this board was chicken littling it up about our line and our Tackles, so are we looking at a league wide trend? ... well, not for the Packers, but :)

so, long story short, i feel the sacks will come and they do tend to come in bunches, but now is a good time to remember other things

batted passes ... had a bunch of these on Sunday and it is the way to defend 3 step drops

QB hits

hurries, we've got a good number of INTs, which almost always are the product of the QB hurrying it

illegal procedures .... Cleveland had guys ... even the great Joe Thomas .... jump(ing) due to the challenge of trying to block JPP, etc.

run D ... ok before you chuckle, we are right in the middle of the pack vs. the run giving up 111 / game and we've played Trent Richardson, who we did hold to 80 ultimately, Demarco Murray, Lesean McCoy, Cam Newton/Deangelo Hall and Doug Martin ... Tuck and JPP do better than avg. as DEs vs. the run ... Osi, well not so much, but the point is to read the posts here, you would think we were last in the league vs. the run

and just one more thing ... a great clip from the Super Bowl highlights was hearing Tom Brady say that he felt like he was trying to throw in a forest

burier
10-10-2012, 12:55 PM
We're not getting anything. It has nothing to do with 3 step drops. our guys are getting whooped and will continue to get whooped unless something drastic happens.

Flip Empty
10-10-2012, 01:00 PM
Sacks were the D's identity last season, this season it's being hopeless. Not good.

JB456
10-10-2012, 01:04 PM
We're not getting anything. It has nothing to do with 3 step drops. our guys are getting whooped and will continue to get whooped unless something drastic happens.

Its not all three step drops. I have watched every second of Giants football this year and opposing QB's have alot of time back there. Hell, even last week, Weeden wasn't just doing 3 step drops. He was holding the ball for 3-5 seconds.

The D-line is performing like trash with the exception of JPP (who actuall occasionaly beats his man). Its time to switch it up and let some rooks get some playing time.

Toadofsteel
10-10-2012, 01:24 PM
We need Canty back...

GMan-67
10-10-2012, 01:27 PM
the Houston Texans are last in the league in sacks and their best DE JJ Watt understands that vs. a west coast style, dink and dunk offense, you gotta elevate and knock down passes

is anyone saying their D is bad?

bottom line is we do have to get better and clearly that means taking chances and blitzing more, but again here's where you have to remember this is a team sport, so if we lack confidence in the backups that have been forced into action in our defensive backfield, well you can see why we are hesitant to do that ... just look at tape from the Tampa game

this past week, the worst D play we had was after the Browns abused backup Markus Kuhn with runs up the middle for the TD after our turnover

then they play action to Trent and our inexperienced Safety Brown bites on it and they hit a huge play

not to be cliche, but a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link

burier
10-10-2012, 01:31 PM
Its not all three step drops. I have watched every second of Giants football this year and opposing QB's have alot of time back there. Hell, even last week, Weeden wasn't just doing 3 step drops. He was holding the ball for 3-5 seconds.

The D-line is performing like trash with the exception of JPP (who actuall occasionaly beats his man). Its time to switch it up and let some rooks get some playing time.

Yeah we agree. I'm sick of people talking about three step drops when we've been beaten deep in almost every game this year. The young guys need to get some spin but...and I don't mean to sound like a broken record but its time to end the Kiwi experiment and put him back at his natural position.

I think a combo of Kiwi and JPP with Osi and tuck SPRINKLED in will be just the change of pace to get the pass rush moving.

burier
10-10-2012, 01:35 PM
the Houston Texans are last in the league in sacks and their best DE JJ Watt understands that vs. a west coast style, dink and dunk offense, you gotta elevate and knock down passes

is anyone saying their D is bad?

bottom line is we do have to get better and clearly that means taking chances and blitzing more, but again here's where you have to remember this is a team sport, so if we lack confidence in the backups that have been forced into action in our defensive backfield, well you can see why we are hesitant to do that ... just look at tape from the Tampa game

this past week, the worst D play we had was after the Browns abused backup Markus Kuhn with runs up the middle for the TD after our turnover

then they play action to Trent and our inexperienced Safety Brown bites on it and they hit a huge play

not to be cliche, but a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link

I'm confused as to what you're talking about. The whole point is if our front 4 would do their damn job we wouldn't have to worry about blitzing and exposing the secondary.

GMan-67
10-10-2012, 01:37 PM
I'm confused as to what you're talking about. The whole point is if our front 4 would do their damn job we wouldn't have to worry about blitzing and exposing the secondary.

i was talking about the last game .... 14 points given up b/c of Kuhn and Stevie Brown ... take those 14 away or knock that number down to 3 an our D peformance looks just fine

TheAnalyst
10-10-2012, 01:39 PM
Id take some pressures at least... We leave the QB standing in the pocket without any hurry.

Flip Empty
10-10-2012, 01:40 PM
the Houston Texans are last in the league in sacks and their best DE JJ Watt understands that vs. a west coast style, dink and dunk offense, you gotta elevate and knock down passes

is anyone saying their D is bad?
The difference is that the Texans are stopping people - the Giants aren't.

Manning
10-10-2012, 01:50 PM
yeah its not JUST about sacks... but these guys aren't even getting PRESSURE.

sharick88
10-10-2012, 03:24 PM
Sacks are definitely an overrated stat. However, this team isn't even getting pressure on the qb. Get us some real qb pressures and I am cool with that

CowboysSuck
10-10-2012, 03:29 PM
Sacks are vital. The first step in getting a sack is batting balls. As long as we are getting our hands on the balls, we are are doing something right. Its almost a decision that must be made: get a sack or bat balls. To get to the sack you must never give up during the play and go straight after your man. Batting balls is almost a different technique. The lineman gives up on getting to the man, and puts hinds hands in the air to try and at least touch the balls.

burier
10-10-2012, 03:35 PM
i was talking about the last game .... 14 points given up b/c of Kuhn and Stevie Brown ... take those 14 away or knock that number down to 3 an our D peformance looks just fine

not to me it doesn't

I know that with our corners and with our backers we don't have a chance against the better offenses in the league unless we can utilize the great equalizer which is a great pass rush. And I've actually seen a terrible pass rush over 5 games and it can't be explained away.

I know the Tuck fans WISH he'd just come out and claim he had a hangnail or something to explain why he sucks so bad.
We've actually gotten to the point where we're BEGGING for Chris Canty to get back in the lineup when we ALLLLLL know he is no more than a decent player on his best day and his absence cleary doesn't even begin to explain why we can't rush the passer. IN FACT Canty's absense doesn't even explain why we can't stop the run as we were just as bad against the run last season when he didn't miss a game.

To paraphrase : TUCK AND OSI SUCK SO HARD THAT FANS ARE ACTUALLY IMAGINING THAT MARGINAL PLAYERS ARE BETTER THAN THEY ARE TO COMPENSATE.

We don't have to jump up and bat down passes we need to bench the two players that Ray Charles can see aren't getting it done.

slipknottin
10-10-2012, 04:11 PM
The interesting thing with this is had anyone looked more in depth last season the giants pass rush was actually very poor.

What the giants did a great job at was converting pressures/hits into sacks.

But they did not consistently get pressure or hits

CowboysSuck
10-10-2012, 04:36 PM
The interesting thing with this is had anyone looked more in depth last season the giants pass rush was actually very poor.

What the giants did a great job at was converting pressures/hits into sacks.

But they did not consistently get pressure or hits

You are right. But it does always seem to pick up at the end of the year or in the playoffs for some reason.

slipknottin
10-10-2012, 04:41 PM
You are right. But it does always seem to pick up at the end of the year or in the playoffs for some reason.

I thought the giants pass rush was largely non existent in the playoffs. The more closely you look at the pass rush the more worrying it becomes.