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View Full Version : Looks like barcode56 was right after all about Eli Manning.



barcode56
10-16-2012, 10:24 AM
Hi my name is barcode56.



Years ago Eli Manning was new to the team. I knew he would be something special.

People disagreed with me. I was fine with that tho.

I realized that all the so called "NY Giants Experts" arent really experts at all.

All these "experts" know is stats. They know nothing about the game.

I have dealt with "fire Coughlin, Fire Gilbride, Fire Reese, Trade Eli Manning etc."

Now we have two Superbowls under Eli, Coughlin, Gilbride. Guess what?

Provided Coughlin and company sticks together....

Eli Manning Will bring us at least two more superbowls

Eli Manning is THE greatest NYG QB of all time. (no offense Simms but Eli has Two SB MVPS)

Tom Coughlin is THE greatest NYG Coach of all time. (no offense Parcels)

Victor Cruz...is so awesome.

Sorry....just had to get that off my chest....have a good day all.

GameTime
10-16-2012, 10:38 AM
You are not alone . Many knew/thought Eli would pan out. As for the coaches I admit I thoguht Tom should have hnug it up a couple years ago. Not because I didnt lik ehim but it was hard to gauge his enthusiasm. But as I have come to find he is over the top with enthusiasm for the NYG and coaching.

yoeddy
10-16-2012, 10:49 AM
I will pat myself on the back about Eli and TC...my support and belief in them never wavered....

Flip Empty
10-16-2012, 10:53 AM
I criticised Coughlin but I've always defended Eli. Something tells me I'll never have to answer the "would you have preferred Rivers?" question again.

Morehead State
10-16-2012, 10:53 AM
Hi my name is barcode56.



Years ago Eli Manning was new to the team. I knew he would be something special.

People disagreed with me. I was fine with that tho.

I realized that all the so called "NY Giants Experts" arent really experts at all.

All these "experts" know is stats. They know nothing about the game.

I have dealt with "fire Coughlin, Fire Gilbride, Fire Reese, Trade Eli Manning etc."

Now we have two Superbowls under Eli, Coughlin, Gilbride. Guess what?

Provided Coughlin and company sticks together....

Eli Manning Will bring us at least two more superbowls

Eli Manning is THE greatest NYG QB of all time. (no offense Simms but Eli has Two SB MVPS)

Tom Coughlin is THE greatest NYG Coach of all time. (no offense Parcels)

Victor Cruz...is so awesome.

Sorry....just had to get that off my chest....have a good day all.

I love all the chest thumping going on around here. Every dope and his brother claiming to be "right" about Eli.

GameTime
10-16-2012, 10:56 AM
I love all the chest thumping going on around here. Every dope and his brother claiming to be "right" about Eli.
maybe the guy is being truthful.....
no need to judge him....

yoeddy
10-16-2012, 10:59 AM
I love all the chest thumping going on around here. Every dope and his brother claiming to be "right" about Eli.

My brother doesn't really have an opinion on this...

EliDaMANning
10-16-2012, 11:00 AM
Coughlin won me over. I didn't think he would last this long. But I watched Eli in Ole Miss and was glad we traded for him. Biggest steal ever.

I don't know how many years Coughlin has left as a coach but it would be good to see him retire with Eli with a handful of rings.

bansaw
10-16-2012, 11:06 AM
I love all the chest thumping going on around here. Every dope and his brother claiming to be "right" about Eli.

you're just jealous

yoeddy
10-16-2012, 11:07 AM
I'll thump my chest even more, saying that I wanted Coughlin as head coach for the Giants the day that Jacksonville let him go...

SweetZombieJesus
10-16-2012, 11:08 AM
Don't sprain your arm patting yourself on the back.

Of course we have no way to verify anything you said is true.

As for myself, it was a little disappointing he wasn't his brother right out of the box, and I think that's the template the haters still cling to, formed in those first few years. But all I wanted was improvement every year... Look at where he is now.

As for Coughlin, I will admit I was irate after the 2008 collapse and the 2010 meltdown vs. the Eagles... I thought we had a Joe Torre situation where we're giving him infinite chances to duplicate the magic only it's never going to happen and meanwhile we suffer these demoralizing flame-outs at the end of the year. And then the magic happened again. Happy to be wrong about that one, I just wish the lows weren't so low around here.

Dwinsballgames
10-16-2012, 11:08 AM
My brother doesn't really have an opinion on this...

LOL

Manning
10-16-2012, 11:11 AM
Look at my name and registration date. I had to defend Eli for years around these parts. Especially vs my hated rival Harooni. There were times when my confidence wavered in parts of that 2007 season, as he just wasn't helping my arguments. In 2007 however, us Eli fans were calling for a new coaching staff to see if it was the system that might have been limiting him.. Last year however I was not calling for TC's head as I still thought he was a great coach who was getting lesser talent to compete.

It feels good knowing that the person you defended for so long proved the doubters wrong. Doubters were not only people here, but family (dad) as well. I vividly remember my dad screaming Eli you "fvcking" suck while sitting in our seats at Giants Stadium.... Oh how times have changed.

yoeddy
10-16-2012, 11:12 AM
Don't sprain your arm patting yourself on the back.

Of course we have no way to verify anything you said is true.

For me, there was...I was really active on the AOL message boards back through the 90s and early 2000s, and was very vocal there about how much I didn't like Fassel and felt that Coughlin was what the team needed. Unfortunately, the AOL boards shut down little ways back (which is why I ended up coming here)...but at least there is track record on these boards of my support for Coughlin before SB42. Will admit to doubting Gilbride now and then, but have been a strong supporter of Coughlin and Eli thru it all...

bansaw
10-16-2012, 11:12 AM
Don't sprain your arm patting yourself on the back.

Of course we have no way to verify anything you said is true.


I made a photoshop of barcode posting back in 07

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_16noOQI-C9g/RyQL6aqrKxI/AAAAAAAAAoY/5cAy0lgcGBI/s400/barcode_edited-1.jpg

RoanokeFan
10-16-2012, 11:28 AM
I made a photoshop of barcode posting back in 07

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_16noOQI-C9g/RyQL6aqrKxI/AAAAAAAAAoY/5cAy0lgcGBI/s400/barcode_edited-1.jpg

LMAO

Morehead State
10-16-2012, 11:36 AM
you're just jealous
I'm as happy as can be with the fact that my beloved team has such an outstanding QB.
I just think its funny that these guys are coming out of the woodwork claiming to have such unique clairvoyance, that they predicted that the QB who was first taken in the draft and plays for our team was going to be an outstanding player.
I mean....what are the chances?.......Maybe 50/50.

Whats next? predicting when night will fall tonight?

RoanokeFan
10-16-2012, 11:41 AM
I'm as happy as can be with the fact that my beloved team has such an outstanding QB.
I just think its funny that these guys are coming out of the woodwork claiming to have such unique clairvoyance, that they predicted that the QB who was first taken in the draft and plays for our team was going to be an outstanding player.
I mean....what are the chances?.......Maybe 50/50.

Whats next? predicting when night will fall tonight?


I can predict then the next sky will fall.........:p

barcode56
10-16-2012, 11:50 AM
I'll thump my chest even more, saying that I wanted Coughlin as head coach for the Giants the day that Jacksonville let him go...

Wish Coughlin could have been coach right after Parcells...instead of us having to put up with Ray Handley, Dan Reeves, JimFassel!!

SweetZombieJesus
10-16-2012, 11:57 AM
I made a photoshop of barcode posting back in 07

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_16noOQI-C9g/RyQL6aqrKxI/AAAAAAAAAoY/5cAy0lgcGBI/s400/barcode_edited-1.jpg

God I miss your shops, Bansaw

Morehead State
10-16-2012, 11:58 AM
Wish Coughlin could have been coach right after Parcells...instead of us having to put up with Ray Handley, Dan Reeves, JimFassel!!
Well I wanted TC when he was at BC and we fired Handley (thats actually true)
Unfortunately he turned down the job.
I guess I'm better than you all......Right?

RoanokeFan
10-16-2012, 12:10 PM
Well I wanted TC when he was at BC and we fired Handley (thats actually true)
Unfortunately he turned down the job.
I guess I'm better than you all......Right?

There can be no question!

Ruttiger711
10-16-2012, 12:22 PM
Ruttiger711 would never refer to himself in the 3rd person in a self congratulatory post touting his long time support of Eli.

Cindy in INdy
10-16-2012, 12:27 PM
I ain't going there. Remember when we had to declare Friday's as no hating on Eli here ect...I ain't going there.

ryan12
10-16-2012, 12:33 PM
i thought he would be great and i was as happy as a pig in **** when we drafted him... however i must admit through his 1st few years i was starting to doubt he would be anything better then a ok qb. as far as tc i wanted him to come hear but also had my doubts if he would bring us to the big dance. well eli is ****ing great and tc...... well he has two rings.... nuff said

barcode56
10-16-2012, 12:33 PM
Don't sprain your arm patting yourself on the back.

Of course we have no way to verify anything you said is true.

As for myself, it was a little disappointing he wasn't his brother right out of the box, and I think that's the template the haters still cling to, formed in those first few years. But all I wanted was improvement every year... Look at where he is now.

As for Coughlin, I will admit I was irate after the 2008 collapse and the 2010 meltdown vs. the Eagles... I thought we had a Joe Torre situation where we're giving him infinite chances to duplicate the magic only it's never going to happen and meanwhile we suffer these demoralizing flame-outs at the end of the year. And then the magic happened again. Happy to be wrong about that one, I just wish the lows weren't so low around here.

Ha ha!! Verify what I said is true??? You have no faith dude. Just look at Bansaws post I got teased because of it. Since 2007 I had to seek therapy, I had abused my cat and everything. cause of dudes like u. but the good news is im ok now. Thanks.

Harooni
10-16-2012, 12:41 PM
Everyone is wrong at times, and sometimes that person wasn't wrong at the time. As i look at the posters that were right about Eli , I see the very same posters were wrong about TC and fewell , Some said Lavar Arington would be a stud, some said we couldnt do well without Plax ect ect. I remember arguing 2 years ago that we had very good Wr's and Eli fanatics telling me i was wrong.

Maybe some of us didnt think eli was going to be that great when he lead the league in ints and had a QB rating in the 70's. we were wrong but we were going off what Eli was showing us and other QB's successes at that time.

TheEnigma
10-16-2012, 12:44 PM
The 2004 draft was amazing outside of Eli, Big Ben, and Rivers as well. Fitzgerald is probably a future HoF WR, Steven Jackson is a heck of a RB for a Rams team that has failed to do anything with him, Jared Allen was a mid day pick for the Chiefs, Chris Snee was our best offensive player for years...

Too many good players to list from that draft.

Harooni
10-16-2012, 12:45 PM
So if i was to say the oline sucked 2 months ago and now that they are playing great , was I wrong 2 months ago then????

BurnerNYG
10-16-2012, 12:46 PM
i thought he would be great and i was as happy as a pig in **** when we drafted him... however i must admit through his 1st few years i was starting to doubt he would be anything better then a ok qb. as far as tc i wanted him to come hear but also had my doubts if he would bring us to the big dance. well eli is ****ing great and tc...... well he has two rings.... nuff saidThese are and were my thoughts... wow.

GameTime
10-16-2012, 12:48 PM
So if i was to say the oline sucked 2 months ago and now that they are playing great , was I wrong 2 months ago then????
only if you said they would suck for the rest of the season......

Harooni
10-16-2012, 12:52 PM
only if you said they would suck for the rest of the season...... I did. lol oops i was wrong about that too, but come on look what i was going off.


ok So i thought Eli would be Arod. but then i did see he had this different look when we were losing a game as if he then started to feel it aand play like a madman.

bansaw
10-16-2012, 12:53 PM
Realists they called themselves if i remember correct

Harooni
10-16-2012, 12:54 PM
I can't speak for everyone but we didn't say Eli was a bust or a bad QB, we just said draft picks and 50mill rookie contract was a bit much. As enigma said that 2004 draft was deep and we could have landed a few quality guys and maybe even traded out for more picks and still got Ben.

GameTime
10-16-2012, 12:55 PM
I did. lol oops i was wrong about that too, but come on look what i was going off.


ok So i thought Eli would be Arod. but then i did see he had this different look when we were losing a game as if he then started to feel it aand play like a madman.
your not wrong yet. They have had a few good games. Lets see if they can be consistent throughout now....
I cursed Eli many times but I always felt that he would work out for some reason.

bansaw
10-16-2012, 12:56 PM
thread needs more gumby and cantblameshockey

barcode56
10-16-2012, 12:57 PM
Look at my name and registration date. I had to defend Eli for years around these parts. Especially vs my hated rival Harooni. There were times when my confidence wavered in parts of that 2007 season, as he just wasn't helping my arguments. In 2007 however, us Eli fans were calling for a new coaching staff to see if it was the system that might have been limiting him.. Last year however I was not calling for TC's head as I still thought he was a great coach who was getting lesser talent to compete.

It feels good knowing that the person you defended for so long proved the doubters wrong. Doubters were not only people here, but family (dad) as well. I vividly remember my dad screaming Eli you "fvcking" suck while sitting in our seats at Giants Stadium.... Oh how times have changed.

This is great! Eli is the nextlevel QB and he is only getting better. To be so awesome with so many wide recivers is awesome.

GameTime
10-16-2012, 12:59 PM
thread needs more gumby and cantblameshockey
we need more cowbell......

ny06
10-16-2012, 12:59 PM
The 2004 draft was amazing outside of Eli, Big Ben, and Rivers as well. Fitzgerald is probably a future HoF WR, Steven Jackson is a heck of a RB for a Rams team that has failed to do anything with him, Jared Allen was a mid day pick for the Chiefs, Chris Snee was our best offensive player for years...

Too many good players to list from that draft.
That was a great draft. Sean Taylor (r.i.p) Winslow jr, DeAngelo Hall, Dunta Robinson, Vilma, D.J Williams, Will Smith, Vince Wilfork, Jason Babin, Chris Gamble, Shawn Andrews (injuries hampered a real good player) Tommie Harris, Benjamin Watson. This is just the first round, and I left off guys like Roy Williams WR, Robert Gallery, Lee Evans.

yoeddy
10-16-2012, 01:01 PM
Well I wanted TC when he was at BC and we fired Handley (thats actually true)
Unfortunately he turned down the job.
I guess I'm better than you all......Right?

No...barcode wanted him before he went to BC....

bansaw
10-16-2012, 01:01 PM
thought Dave Brown was your favourite barcode

Dwinsballgames
10-16-2012, 01:02 PM
So if i was to say the oline sucked 2 months ago and now that they are playing great , was I wrong 2 months ago then????

You weren't then wrong about then, you were just wrong about now back then then. Of course if they have a bad game, you would have been right then about later. Hope that clears things up

Harooni
10-16-2012, 01:12 PM
You weren't then wrong about then, you were just wrong about now back then then. Of course if they have a bad game, you would have been right then about later. Hope that clears things up So when is then now?

Dwinsballgames
10-16-2012, 01:13 PM
So when is then now?

right about.........wait for it..................

















later

Harooni
10-16-2012, 01:16 PM
right about.........wait for it..................

















later

http://gifs.gifbin.com/180155915.gif

repeatchamps
10-16-2012, 01:16 PM
right about.........wait for it..................

















later


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeZ9HhHU86o

Harooni
10-16-2012, 01:19 PM
great movie lol

repeatchamps
10-16-2012, 01:21 PM
great movie lol

Legendary. The combination is 1,2,3,4,5:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6iW-8xPw3k

They skipped the turned the movie off line :mad:.

Harooni
10-16-2012, 01:23 PM
haha, well getting back to Eli i can verify Barcode did say those things, but then so did 1000's of others going off Archies golden seeds.

TheEnigma
10-16-2012, 01:34 PM
1st overall draft selections are always predicted for greatness in this age (well except for Cam Newton. Most people hated him). Luck is the best prospect since Elway, Bradford is so mature for his age and a leader, Stafford has an amazing arm, Jake Long will be the best Tackle, etc.

YATittle1962
10-16-2012, 01:41 PM
I would love to hold this in and be professional about it........but this post is absolutely ridiculous

you are giving yourself credit for having faith in the NY Giants first round, #1 pick QB?

I would like to give myself credit for saying the sun would come up this morning (YA pats himself on the back )

TuckandRolle
10-16-2012, 01:41 PM
I'm pretty sure when he went #1 in the draft and the Giants traded for him most people thought he was going to be amazing. But you can take the credit!

barcode56
10-16-2012, 01:50 PM
I made a photoshop of barcode posting back in 07

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_16noOQI-C9g/RyQL6aqrKxI/AAAAAAAAAoY/5cAy0lgcGBI/s400/barcode_edited-1.jpg


Geez dude u still got this picture??? LOL!!

Morehead State
10-16-2012, 01:57 PM
I would love to hold this in and be professional about it........but this post is absolutely ridiculous

you are giving yourself credit for having faith in the NY Giants first round, #1 pick QB?

I would like to give myself credit for saying the sun would come up this morning (YA pats himself on the back )
That halo extends over all of Eli followers as well. Eli can do no wrong and by extention nor can his disciples.

Its a big *** halo!

TheEnigma
10-16-2012, 02:02 PM
I still think Fitz is the best overall player from that draft. Eli will obviously have a bigger impact on this league and on his team vs a WR but when can you say Larry has been bad?

gumby74
10-16-2012, 02:13 PM
Eli will be the best.
Eli is the best.

Very big difference. Don't congratulate yourself too hard there.

Giants5699
10-16-2012, 02:14 PM
Do you want a cookie for your great foresight?

gumby74
10-16-2012, 02:15 PM
thread needs more gumby and cantblameshockey

You have serious issues if you can't tell the differece between us. although, i must admit Can'tBlameShockeyNow was pretty funny.

Morehead State
10-16-2012, 02:22 PM
You have serious issues if you can't tell the differece between us. although, i must admit Can'tBlameShockeyNow was pretty funny.
Cantblameshockeynow has no time to post here since he joined that Village People tribute band.

bansaw
10-16-2012, 03:37 PM
Geez dude u still got this picture??? LOL!!

well I had to have a site to host the pics so I made an account and the site is still running

if you thought it was on my computer then lolu

GFiP
10-16-2012, 03:41 PM
I've always been a huge Eli supporter. Not the same for Coughlin, and I'm still not his biggest fan.

Ruttiger711
10-16-2012, 05:28 PM
I've always been a huge Eli supporter. Not the same for Coughlin, and I'm still not his biggest fan.

Anything specifically this year?

yoeddy
10-16-2012, 05:36 PM
I would love to hold this in and be professional about it........but this post is absolutely ridiculous

you are giving yourself credit for having faith in the NY Giants first round, #1 pick QB?

I would like to give myself credit for saying the sun would come up this morning (YA pats himself on the back )

Given the number of people who either didn't have or lost their faith, I would say that it's ok to be proud of keeping the faith...

rainierjef
10-16-2012, 05:40 PM
Its easy to come on here and gloat about being right about Eli, Not saying i don't belive you but also saying we don't care. Why didn't you do this after the last super bowl win, or the one prior to that? why did you wait till we beat the 9ers to make this grandiose post?

pino
10-16-2012, 05:45 PM
Don't let it bother you man. The people that were harping on Eli and Coughlin are usually the same people that are wrong about football in general. Some people understand the game, some don't.

OrangeGiant
10-16-2012, 05:50 PM
I have to admit, there were times I thought Eli was just never going to be a great QB. I think most people felt that way, even though they will not admit it. I doubt there are very many people on these boards who from day 1 until now believed Eli would be a 2 time SB MVP and future hall of famer. I'd like to say I did, but I had my doubts. I've never bashed him, but I have doubted him in the past because he needed to be consistently good, not just good for 5 games in a row. He's proven everyone wrong and I do think he will win at least 1 more SB for sure.

That being said, the one person I never waivered on was TC. I honestly wished that SU would have hired him a long time ago, but I am glad he is where he is. He's made teams better everywhere he's gone- BC, Jacksonville, the Giants...I said on my first year on these boards that we would win a SB with him as coach and got flamed for it. "I'll remember that" was a comment I heard a few times.

Let's just enjoy things right now because it doesn't get much better than it is now as a Giants fan. We;ll, it could with a couple more SB's, but this is a special time that will be appreciated more down the road. Just ask Miami, who still hasn't replaced Marino, Buffalo, who still hasn't replaced Kelly, Denver, who finally replaced Elway! Sorry Cowboys fans, you could argue Dallas still hasn't replaced Aikman. So whether you predicted it or not, I'm glad it is what it is.

Harooni
10-16-2012, 06:05 PM
I secretly Knew Eli would take that next step to manhood from awkward boy , when he grabbed Bradshaw by his face mask. It was quite arousing


Though I didnt say it much ( i had to keep face)

Harooni
10-16-2012, 06:06 PM
Don't let it bother you man. The people that were harping on Eli and Coughlin are usually the same people that are wrong about football in general. Some people understand the game, some don't. problem is some loved Eli but harped on TC what does that make them?

Sarcasman
10-16-2012, 06:15 PM
Hi my name is barcode56.



Years ago Eli Manning was new to the team. I knew he would be something special.

People disagreed with me. I was fine with that tho.

I realized that all the so called "NY Giants Experts" arent really experts at all.

All these "experts" know is stats. They know nothing about the game.

I have dealt with "fire Coughlin, Fire Gilbride, Fire Reese, Trade Eli Manning etc."

Now we have two Superbowls under Eli, Coughlin, Gilbride. Guess what?

Provided Coughlin and company sticks together....

Eli Manning Will bring us at least two more superbowls

Eli Manning is THE greatest NYG QB of all time. (no offense Simms but Eli has Two SB MVPS)

Tom Coughlin is THE greatest NYG Coach of all time. (no offense Parcels)

Victor Cruz...is so awesome.

Sorry....just had to get that off my chest....have a good day all.


Join the club, I'm betting most folks knew at the time that he'd be something special.

Certainly those who are smart enough to know they're not smarter than Ernie Accorsi did.

TheEnigma
10-16-2012, 06:17 PM
Barden is the next Plax because of his height.

Bradshaw sucks and should be replaced by Andre Brown because of 6 quarters.

Beatty is soft.

Bennett will have little work ethic and fail to impress (I admit I was in this crowd)

JPP was a stupid pick

"Princess" Amukamara is a complete bust

I've seen tremendous posters who I've grown to respect say some of these asinine things while they were dead on with other predictions. It's like...sometimes...people are right or wrong. Shocking concept. I'm always more impressed when people admit their mistakes versus bragging about a prediction.

Sarcasman
10-16-2012, 06:18 PM
I would love to hold this in and be professional about it........but this post is absolutely ridiculous

you are giving yourself credit for having faith in the NY Giants first round, #1 pick QB?

I would like to give myself credit for saying the sun would come up this morning (YA pats himself on the back )


How can you be so sure? Maybe you're just really a sun homer.

Morehead State
10-16-2012, 06:19 PM
Don't let it bother you man. The people that were harping on Eli and Coughlin are usually the same people that are wrong about football in general. Some people understand the game, some don't.
What a foolish post from an otherwise good poster.

May I ask how you are defining "harp"?

Sarcasman
10-16-2012, 06:19 PM
thought Dave Brown was your favourite barcode


Dave Brown is something special and I knew he would be.

I talked to his Mom last week and she confirmed it, so there.

Harooni
10-16-2012, 06:41 PM
Dave Brown is something special and I knew he would be.

I talked to his Mom last week and she confirmed it, so there. haha i thought Brown was going to stink , i was kinda Poed we let hostetler go

yoeddy
10-16-2012, 06:43 PM
Dave Brown will always be ok in my book for his hit on Deion...

joemorrisforprez
10-16-2012, 06:49 PM
I will pat myself on the back about Eli and TC...my support and belief in them never wavered....

There were a few times when my belief wavered....but I never gave up on either of them.

EliDaMANning
10-17-2012, 09:36 AM
Even in Eli's rookie year I saw flashes of brilliance. He was basically playing with scrubs and old people who couldn't get open. Even at his young age he was getting the most out of these average to below average receivers. Outside of Burress who complimented Eli well, who did Eli really have before Nicks and Manningham? Toomer? Please. Shockey? LOL

He was working with a very bad WR core for the first half of his career. Now his numbers start popping because he all of a sudden gotten mature? Became a leader? Entering his prime?


No fellas, for almost 5 years he had practically no weapons at WR. I saw what he had had to work with, I saw his excellent pocket presense, his pin point accuracy and knack to play under pressure.

Dwinsballgames
10-17-2012, 09:41 AM
Dave Brown will always be ok in my book for his hit on Deion...

The sad thing is that the Deion hit was the best thing he ever did.

GMENAGAIN
10-17-2012, 09:42 AM
The premise of this thread irritates me . . . . .

Morehead State
10-17-2012, 09:44 AM
Even in Eli's rookie year I saw flashes of brilliance. He was basically playing with scrubs and old people who couldn't get open. Even at his young age he was getting the most out of these average to below average receivers. Outside of Burress who complimented Eli well, who did Eli really have before Nicks and Manningham? Toomer? Please. Shockey? LOL

He was working with a very bad WR core for the first half of his career. Now his numbers start popping because he all of a sudden gotten mature? Became a leader? Entering his prime?


No fellas, for almost 5 years he had practically no weapons at WR. I saw what he had had to work with, I saw his excellent pocket presense, his pin point accuracy and knack to play under pressure.

Plaxico and Toomer were one of the top WR duo's in the NFL. Amani Toomer is the leading receiver in Giants history.
I'm really not sure what you are talking about when you talk down our WR's early in Eli's career here.

speedman
10-17-2012, 11:15 AM
Well I wanted TC when he was at BC and we fired Handley (thats actually true)
Unfortunately he turned down the job.
I guess I'm better than you all......Right?You were really right about Eli.

Imgrate
10-17-2012, 11:15 AM
Plaxico and Toomer were one of the top WR duo's in the NFL. Amani Toomer is the leading receiver in Giants history.I'm really not sure what you are talking about when you talk down our WR's early in Eli's career here.Shockey was a top TE at the time as was tiki at RB.

giantsfan420
10-17-2012, 11:25 AM
You were really right about Eli.

lol well played

CowboysSuck
10-17-2012, 11:28 AM
Most of us thought Eli was the second coming... I did. I was right!! look at that, they call me Nostradomus!!

giantsfan420
10-17-2012, 11:29 AM
Given the number of people who either didn't have or lost their faith, I would say that it's ok to be proud of keeping the faith...

exactly. its revionist history. dont u know, there wasnt one person who disliked eli/the teams future pre 2007. no one never doubted him. and even farther, we should thank the people who didnt support him bc they were really right, if u had supported eli and believed this reality we live in today was possible pre 2007, t was bc u were delusional....u should have doubted him and comment on how rivers is so much better than him, which would mean u werent delusional...lmao

CowboysSuck
10-17-2012, 11:30 AM
Shockey was a top TE at the time as was tiki at RB.

Did Eli ever play with Hilliard? I forget...

I remember guys like Jamaar Taylor (not gonna lie I thought he was going to be a hidden gem) and other no-names catching deep bomb pases from Eli early in his career.

fansince69
10-17-2012, 11:31 AM
Even in Eli's rookie year I saw flashes of brilliance. He was basically playing with scrubs and old people who couldn't get open. Even at his young age he was getting the most out of these average to below average receivers. Outside of Burress who complimented Eli well, who did Eli really have before Nicks and Manningham? Toomer? Please. Shockey? LOL

He was working with a very bad WR core for the first half of his career. Now his numbers start popping because he all of a sudden gotten mature? Became a leader? Entering his prime?


No fellas, for almost 5 years he had practically no weapons at WR. I saw what he had had to work with, I saw his excellent pocket presense, his pin point accuracy and knack to play under pressure.

Funny thing is whenever the Simms/manning debate comes up...The Simms backers including myself have pointed this very thing out about Simms but yet in that case it means nothing.......

.I have always backed Eli and the trade.....but I had a problem with everyone trying to give him credit for things he hadn't accomplished yet......5+ years ago claiming he was the best....hes going to the hall of fame...ect ect....at this point in time... yes those arguments may have merit....but 5+ years ago it was all talk

CowboysSuck
10-17-2012, 11:32 AM
I remember the final drive of the 2005 season, Eli orchestrated a 2 min drill to perfection against the Cowboys. I knew right then and there this kid was going to be something special.

CowboysSuck
10-17-2012, 11:33 AM
Funny thing is whenever the Simms/manning debate comes up...The Simms backers including myself have pointed this very thing out about Simms but yet in that case it means nothing.......

.I have always backed Eli and the trade.....but I had a problem with everyone trying to give him credit for things he hadn't accomplished yet......5+ years ago claiming he was the best....hes going to the hall of fame...ect ect....at this point in time... yes those arguments may have merit....but 5+ years ago it was all talk

Its called being a fan and having hope. We all knew he was going to be the face of the Franchise after we drafted him, so why not love the guy and have high hopes? I really dont understand the contrary..

fansince69
10-17-2012, 11:35 AM
Its called being a fan and having hope. We all knew he was going to be the face of the Franchise after we drafted him, so why not love the guy and have high hopes? I really dont understand the contrary..

I agree...but hope and rooting are very different than some of the claims that were being made prematurely

BillTheGreek
10-17-2012, 11:57 AM
You know what, many a game, years ago, I wanted Coughlin gone. for any reason..........I never thought he would bring the Giants to these Hights ! He should feel VERY Proud of himself ....As far as Eli, I always Liked him, but he use to give me a Heart Attack ! When he first started ! The Past Years have been Unbelievable ! They have to be the Greatest and most Talanted Pair of Guys around !

Go Giants!

EliDaMANning
10-17-2012, 02:14 PM
Plaxico and Toomer were one of the top WR duo's in the NFL. Amani Toomer is the leading receiver in Giants history.
I'm really not sure what you are talking about when you talk down our WR's early in Eli's career here.No they weren't. So what if Toomer is the leading receiver in Giants history? They don't have much history at WR anyways. He was a reliable quiet WR who was past his prime with Eli.

Burress, as good as he is, became a #1 with the Giants by default. In reality he's nothing more than a #2 anywhere else. You know why Eli used to chuck it to him most of the time? Because he couldn't get any separation.

Shockey was used as a blocking TE with TC. And then he declined from there, pretty much became a backup TE. If you think Eli had weapons for the first half of his career you gotta be kidding me. His numbers wouldn't have popped all of a sudden once Toomer and Burress left and we got younger at WR.

EliDaMANning
10-17-2012, 02:15 PM
Shockey was a top TE at the time as was tiki at RB.Shockey turned into nothing once TC became head coach. Tiki was a great RB for us but that doesn't affect Eli's numbers as much as WR.

GMENAGAIN
10-17-2012, 02:19 PM
No they weren't. So what if Toomer is the leading receiver in Giants history? They don't have much history at WR anyways. He was a reliable quiet WR who was past his prime with Eli.

Burress, as good as he is, became a #1 with the Giants by default. In reality he's nothing more than a #2 anywhere else. You know why Eli used to chuck it to him most of the time? Because he couldn't get any separation.

Shockey was used as a blocking TE with TC. And then he declined from there, pretty much became a backup TE. If you think Eli had weapons for the first half of his career you gotta be kidding me. His numbers wouldn't have popped all of a sudden once Toomer and Burress left and we got younger at WR.

You do not know a lot about football or the Giants.

Maybe football isn't your thing? There are plenty of other hobbies out there that might suit you better.

easterbeast
10-17-2012, 02:27 PM
I love all the chest thumping going on around here. Every dope and his brother claiming to be "right" about Eli.

i know i was

EliDaMANning
10-17-2012, 02:31 PM
You do not know a lot about football or the Giants.

Maybe football isn't your thing? There are plenty of other hobbies out there that might suit you better.My son, if you think Toomer was an all pro stud because he's the Giants all time receiving leader then there is no point in taking this any further.

Morehead State
10-17-2012, 02:46 PM
No they weren't. So what if Toomer is the leading receiver in Giants history? They don't have much history at WR anyways. He was a reliable quiet WR who was past his prime with Eli.

Burress, as good as he is, became a #1 with the Giants by default. In reality he's nothing more than a #2 anywhere else. You know why Eli used to chuck it to him most of the time? Because he couldn't get any separation.

Shockey was used as a blocking TE with TC. And then he declined from there, pretty much became a backup TE. If you think Eli had weapons for the first half of his career you gotta be kidding me. His numbers wouldn't have popped all of a sudden once Toomer and Burress left and we got younger at WR.

This is friggin crazy talk. You're saying Toomer wasn't an outstanding WR?

yoeddy
10-17-2012, 03:01 PM
Shockey turned into nothing once TC became head coach. Tiki was a great RB for us but that doesn't affect Eli's numbers as much as WR.

Shockey actually had his most productive season of his career under TC in 2005, with season highs in yards/reception (13.7) and TDs (7), and second most yards (891), yards per game (59.4) in his career. On top of that, he became a complete TE under TC, with big improvements to his blocking ability (something he never did under Fassel)...

yoeddy
10-17-2012, 03:06 PM
This is friggin crazy talk. You're saying Toomer wasn't an outstanding WR?

Toomer's reputation prior to TC was as a talented receiver who disappeared at crunch-time. This of course reversed in his last few years, where he was less productive but came up big in big moments. Other than that, Toomer couldn't crack the starting lineup until his 4th year in the league, taking a backseat to receivers such as Chris Calloway, Thomas Lewis, David Patten, Ike Hilliard, and Kevin Alexander (who?). Even a rookie Jurevicius got starts ahead of Toomer in those first 3 years of Toomer's career.

Morehead State
10-17-2012, 03:10 PM
Toomer's reputation prior to TC was as a talented receiver who disappeared at crunch-time. This of course reversed in his last few years, where he was less productive but came up big in big moments. Other than that, Toomer couldn't crack the starting lineup until his 4th year in the league, taking a backseat to receivers such as Chris Calloway, Thomas Lewis, David Patten, Ike Hilliard, and Kevin Alexander (who?). Even a rookie Jurevicius got starts ahead of Toomer in those first 3 years of Toomer's career.
We are talking about the weapons Eli had early in his career. He had Toomer still in his prime. He had Burress in his prime and he had Shockey in his prime. He also had Tiki for 3 years during his 3 most prolific years.
Toomer was a great player. Is it really important for some posters to have to try to denigrate guys like Toomer to prop Eli up? Thats really bush league as far as I'm concerned.

And your charactorization of Toomer is way off as far as I'm concerned. His clutch play in 2002 when he was essentially the only WR we had was legendary in Giants history.

yoeddy
10-17-2012, 03:20 PM
We are talking about the weapons Eli had early in his career. He had Toomer still in his prime. He had Burress in his prime and he had Shockey in his prime. He also had Tiki for 3 years during his 3 most prolific years.
Toomer was a great player. Is it really important for some posters to have to try to denigrate guys like Toomer to prop Eli up? Thats really bush league as far as I'm concerned.

I actually think Eli had Toomer when Toomer was past his athletic prime...he wasn't as fast, nor was he as agile. But as I said before, he was probably at his most consistent and reliable...and probably at his peak in terms of body control. And I also think that he benefited a lot from having Coughlin and his staff around...if you read his comments about the switch from Fassel to Coughlin back in 2004, you could tell that Toomer was really happy to have the new coaches, their knowledge and their discipline. A great reliable possession receiver, I agree.

Beyond that, I agree that Plax, Shockey and Barber were in the primes of their careers with Eli. Great from the skills perspective, but their personalities weren't helping Eli all that much...



And your charactorization of Toomer is way off as far as I'm concerned. His clutch play in 2002 when he was essentially the only WR we had was legendary in Giants history.

2002 was his 7th season in the league. He did not start until his 4th season (1999). Yes, I might agree that he had a great year in 2002 and showed some signs of clutch back then...but my point was that his reputation for the vast majority of his time up until the TC/Eli years was a couple of tiers below "great"....

jakegibbs
10-17-2012, 03:46 PM
We are talking about the weapons Eli had early in his career. He had Toomer still in his prime. He had Burress in his prime and he had Shockey in his prime. He also had Tiki for 3 years during his 3 most prolific years.
Toomer was a great player. Is it really important for some posters to have to try to denigrate guys like Toomer to prop Eli up? Thats really bush league as far as I'm concerned.

And your charactorization of Toomer is way off as far as I'm concerned. His clutch play in 2002 when he was essentially the only WR we had was legendary in Giants history.

Toomer in his prime should read: He had Toomer in the last 4 years of his 12 year career that started in 1996 & ended in 2008.

Eli2Shockey4aTD
10-17-2012, 04:11 PM
I admit I did not want Coughlin here to begin with, but I was always a pro-Eli guy.

Robert21156
10-17-2012, 04:25 PM
Everyone is wrong at times, and sometimes that person wasn't wrong at the time. As i look at the posters that were right about Eli , I see the very same posters were wrong about TC and fewell , Some said Lavar Arington would be a stud, some said we couldnt do well without Plax ect ect. I remember arguing 2 years ago that we had very good Wr's and Eli fanatics telling me i was wrong.

Maybe some of us didnt think eli was going to be that great when he lead the league in ints and had a QB rating in the 70's. we were wrong but we were going off what Eli was showing us and other QB's successes at that time.
So, prior to the Cruz sighting you argued that we had very good WR's? I'm sure we'd ALL agree that Nicks was a very good WR, but who else, really? Manningham? The guy who ran his sideline patterns virtually out of bounds? Or couldn't make sight adjustments in line with the QB's thinking? Hixon perhaps? He had potential but had he shown much? Or were you including any of the other mixed bag of receivers that we've cycled through in the "very good" group? Just MAYBE Eli looked great in 2011 because he truly did have 2 great receivers and another one who made significant improvement. Not many pro QB's look great if they don't have talented receivers. Maybe Eli's erratic play in the first few years was at least partly due to inadequate receivers. And again, people who reference the almighty QB rating apparently tend to ignore that Eli throws away several passes a game in order not to be sacked. Incompletions obviously hurt the QB rating, but sacks don't. Everyone is talking-up our O-line right now, and they have played better than I anticipated, but they have given up some pressures that Eli discarded. Still, I'm very happy overall with their play.

Robert21156
10-17-2012, 04:31 PM
This is friggin crazy talk. You're saying Toomer wasn't an outstanding WR?
Well, I'm sure saying it!!! "Outstanding" to me would indicate that he would be in the top 5-10% of the receivers in the league while he was playing. There's NO WAY that's accurate. He wasn't fast, didn't get separation, but he would make some clutch catches. "Outstanding"? No.

EliDaMANning
10-17-2012, 04:34 PM
Shockey actually had his most productive season of his career under TC in 2005, with season highs in yards/reception (13.7) and TDs (7), and second most yards (891), yards per game (59.4) in his career. On top of that, he became a complete TE under TC, with big improvements to his blocking ability (something he never did under Fassel)...And the Giants went 11-5 in Eli's second year. A significant improvement from his 1-6 record from the year before.

EliDaMANning
10-17-2012, 04:42 PM
We are talking about the weapons Eli had early in his career. He had Toomer still in his prime. He had Burress in his prime and he had Shockey in his prime. He also had Tiki for 3 years during his 3 most prolific years.
Toomer was a great player. Is it really important for some posters to have to try to denigrate guys like Toomer to prop Eli up? Thats really bush league as far as I'm concerned.

And your charactorization of Toomer is way off as far as I'm concerned. His clutch play in 2002 when he was essentially the only WR we had was legendary in Giants history.Toomer was not in his prime my friend. He played his last 1/3 of his career with Eli. He was older, slower and not as quick. He was considered a potential bust early in his career. Not that it has any bearing now because we know his stats, but don't throw these ridiculous words like OUTSTANDING when describing a guy who didn't even make 1 pro bowl.

Burress had some good seasons with the Giants too. There's no doubt about it. But it's not like Eli was terrible the first half of his career either. He got us into the playoffs regularly and played in every game since he started.

Can you explain to me how his completion % increased dramatically after the WR core got younger?? Do you actually believe he improved his accuracy overnight? LOL.. No, that's not the case buddy. His completion % increased because we finally get to see some WR get some separation like we see other teams have.


Yes at times he missed receivers. Heck he still does and has done it this year. The problem with Eli haters is that they magnified every bad pass of his and saw highlights of other QB on ESPN and wondered why our QB couldn't do that. Bottom line is he can and he did.

Morehead State
10-17-2012, 04:56 PM
Toomer was not in his prime my friend. He played his last 1/3 of his career with Eli. He was older, slower and not as quick. He was considered a potential bust early in his career. Not that it has any bearing now because we know his stats, but don't throw these ridiculous words like OUTSTANDING when describing a guy who didn't even make 1 pro bowl.

Burress had some good seasons with the Giants too. There's no doubt about it. But it's not like Eli was terrible the first half of his career either. He got us into the playoffs regularly and played in every game since he started.

Can you explain to me how his completion % increased dramatically after the WR core got younger?? Do you actually believe he improved his accuracy overnight? LOL.. No, that's not the case buddy. His completion % increased because we finally get to see some WR get some separation like we see other teams have.


Yes at times he missed receivers. Heck he still does and has done it this year. The problem with Eli haters is that they magnified every bad pass of his and saw highlights of other QB on ESPN and wondered why our QB couldn't do that. Bottom line is he can and he did.

I've never heard a Giants fan trash Amani Toomer like this before. Its disgraceful.

EliDaMANning
10-17-2012, 05:08 PM
I've never heard a Giants fan trash Amani Toomer like this before. Its disgraceful.You are deflecting. I never trashed Toomer. You called him legendary and outstanding. I said he wasn't.


How is that trashing?

Morehead State
10-17-2012, 05:17 PM
You are deflecting. I never trashed Toomer. You called him legendary and outstanding. I said he wasn't.


How is that trashing?
How ironic?

yoeddy
10-17-2012, 05:44 PM
I've never heard a Giants fan trash Amani Toomer like this before. Its disgraceful.

Really? Back in the Fassel years, I heard Giant fans trashing Toomer all the time...

Robert21156
10-17-2012, 06:04 PM
I've never heard a Giants fan trash Amani Toomer like this before. Its disgraceful.
Ask any fan from any other team if Toomer was "outstanding" and report back to us how long it takes them to stop laughing. He likely had a few good years, but not many people would go for the outstanding tag.

yoeddy
10-17-2012, 06:17 PM
Ask any fan from any other team if Toomer was "outstanding" and report back to us how long it takes them to stop laughing. He likely had a few good years, but not many people would go for the outstanding tag.

The fact that he never made the Pro Bowl is probably a good indicator of this. Not that the Pro Bowl is a good indicator of talent in general...but there wasn't any outcry from Giant fans or non-Giant fans alike about him being deserving when he didn't make it, not even in 2002 (his best year as a pro)

Morehead State
10-17-2012, 07:30 PM
The fact that he never made the Pro Bowl is probably a good indicator of this. Not that the Pro Bowl is a good indicator of talent in general...but there wasn't any outcry from Giant fans or non-Giant fans alike about him being deserving when he didn't make it, not even in 2002 (his best year as a pro)
So a guy who only made 1 pro bowl as a replacement isn't an outstanding player?

GCGiant
10-17-2012, 07:38 PM
problem is some loved Eli but harped on TC what does that make them?

Right! It is well documented that TC changed his ways and the team came together after that and won 2 SB's. (A Football LIfe...Tom Coughlin)

Not only were we right about TC, but we were right about Tiki and Shockey. Some of us have been right the whole time. :)

Also, I said Eli would be HOF long before it became accepted.

GMan-67
10-17-2012, 08:04 PM
Really? Back in the Fassel years, I heard Giant fans trashing Toomer all the time...

oh they did

a famous thread was TOOMER is a TUMOR

the anti-Bradshaw stuff reminded me of that stuff

we all get it, we all know that players wont play forever ... the players will lose 1/2 step or just be too beat up to operate at a high level

but have some respect ... Toomer has the most yards ever as a Giants WR ... that wont last long, but that still says a lot

and anyone watching Bradshaw has to see how much heart he has ... this guy would run thru a brick wall if he thought it would help our beloved Giants win

if/when Wilson becomes the starting RB here, can we applaud and thank Bradshaw for his great efforts and Super Bowl heroism instead of throwing dirt on him?

Captain Chaos
10-17-2012, 08:05 PM
Rubber arm award!

yoeddy
10-17-2012, 08:28 PM
So a guy who only made 1 pro bowl as a replacement isn't an outstanding player?

If you're referring to Eli, I don't think you read my post. There have been plenty of people who have made outcries that Eli deserves to be in the Pro Bowl in many of the years that he didn't make it. As far as Toomer goes, I can't recall anyone saying that he should have made it in any of his seasons.

Morehead State
10-17-2012, 08:33 PM
If you're referring to Eli, I don't think you read my post. There have been plenty of people who have made outcries that Eli deserves to be in the Pro Bowl in many of the years that he didn't make it. As far as Toomer goes, I can't recall anyone saying that he should have made it in any of his seasons.
I thought Toomer was the best WR in football in 2002. He was double teamed all season because he was the only real WR we had on the team. And he produced like a champion. The kid was great then.

yoeddy
10-17-2012, 08:45 PM
I thought Toomer was the best WR in football in 2002. He was double teamed all season because he was the only real WR we had on the team. And he produced like a champion. The kid was great then.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion...but honestly, you are the only person I've ever heard say that...

Robert21156
10-17-2012, 08:46 PM
So a guy who only made 1 pro bowl as a replacement isn't an outstanding player?

Are you talking about THIS GUY who was selected to the pro bowl twice, neither time as a replacement?

Professional
2011: Super Bowl XLVI Most Valuable Player[109]
2007: Super Bowl XLII Most Valuable Player[110]
2008: November NFC Offensive Player of the Month[111]
2008/2011: 2 Pro Bowl Selection[79]
2011: NFL Record most 4th quarter touchdown passes in a season (15)
2011: Tied NFL Record for longest pass completion and touchdown (99 yards)
Holds NFL Record for most road playoff wins (5)[112]
Most passing yards in a single postseason (1219 yards, 2011)
Super Bowl XLVI: Most consecutive completions to begin a Super Bowl (9)
Active leader for most consecutive starts by a National Football League quarterback (119, 3rd all-time)

NFL records
Most 4th quarter touchdown passes in a season (15 in 2011)
Tied NFL Record longest pass completion and touchdown (99 yards in 2011)
Most road playoff wins by a quarterback (5)
Tied NFL Record most game-winning drives in a season (8 in 2011)
Most road wins in a single regular season and postseason by a starting quarterback (10)
Most passing yards in a single postseason (1,219 yards in 2011)

Giants franchise records
Most passing attempts (season): 589 (2011)
Most completions (season): 359 (2011)
Most passing yards (season): 4,933 (2011)
Longest completed pass: 99 yards (2011)
Most interceptions thrown (season): 25 (2010), tied
Most 4th quarter touchdown passes, season: 15 (NFL record)
Most consecutive starts by a quarterback: 119
Most consecutive pass completions, game: 21 (2011)
Most comeback wins in the 4th quarter (season): 5 (2007, 2011), tied
Most game-winning drives in the 4th quarter/overtime (season): 6 (2007, 2011)
Most career playoff touchdowns: 13 (2011)

Robert21156
10-17-2012, 08:52 PM
I thought Toomer was the best WR in football in 2002. He was double teamed all season because he was the only real WR we had on the team. And he produced like a champion. The kid was great then.

Obviously Toomer had a great year, particularly in yards per catch.

1 Marvin Harrison, WR IND 143 0 1,722 12.0 11 69 22 107.6 0 0 92
2 Randy Moss, WR MIN 106 0 1,347 12.7 7 60 19 84.2 1 0 66
3 Amani Toomer, WR NYG 82 0 1,343 16.4 8 82 24 83.9 0 0 59

Morehead State
10-18-2012, 08:39 AM
Obviously Toomer had a great year, particularly in yards per catch.

1 Marvin Harrison, WR IND 143 0 1,722 12.0 11 69 22 107.6 0 0 92
2 Randy Moss, WR MIN 106 0 1,347 12.7 7 60 19 84.2 1 0 66
3 Amani Toomer, WR NYG 82 0 1,343 16.4 8 82 24 83.9 0 0 59
But Amani had no other WR to deflect coverage. We litterally went on our un late in the season with no other WR. All we had were bodies on the other side.
It was one of the greatest seasons for a WR in Giants history. Defenses knew he was getting the ball and they couldn't stop him.

yoeddy
10-18-2012, 11:02 AM
But Amani had no other WR to deflect coverage. We litterally went on our un late in the season with no other WR. All we had were bodies on the other side.
It was one of the greatest seasons for a WR in Giants history. Defenses knew he was getting the ball and they couldn't stop him.

No other receivers, but he had Shockey and Barber.

In any case, I agree that Toomer's 2002 season should be considered outstanding. But I would also say that one of the reasons why very few/no-one cried foul when he didn't make it to the Pro Bowl was because his reputation up until that point in his career was as a relatively mediocre WR. And he followed it up with a pretty mediocre 2003 season (acknowledging that Fassel had pretty much lost the team at that point, so Toomer's mediocre season was more an indictment of the team's overall malaise).

GameTime
10-18-2012, 11:05 AM
OMG you guys....Toomer was a very good and at times a great WR for the Giants. Could do the sideline grab and toes down superbly.
We dont need all kinds of stats and who this and who that....If you watched the games then you know. Plain and simple.....

yoeddy
10-18-2012, 11:06 AM
OMG you guys....Toomer was a very good and at times a great WR for the Giants. Could do the sideline grab and toes down superbly.
We dont need all kinds of stats and who this and who that....If you watched the games then you know. Plain and simple.....

Toomer wasn't doing the side-line clutch thing until TC came to town...

Morehead State
10-18-2012, 11:11 AM
No other receivers, but he had Shockey and Barber.

In any case, I agree that Toomer's 2002 season should be considered outstanding. But I would also say that one of the reasons why very few/no-one cried foul when he didn't make it to the Pro Bowl was because his reputation up until that point in his career was as a relatively mediocre WR. And he followed it up with a pretty mediocre 2003 season (acknowledging that Fassel had pretty much lost the team at that point, so Toomer's mediocre season was more an indictment of the team's overall malaise).

I don't give a **** about his reputation, nor do I care if he made the pro bowl or not. My point is that Toomer was an outstanding player.
I'm fine with those on the outside not giving him his due. But I'm a bit surprised that some fellow Giants fans, who watched him play every game are failing to do so.

GameTime
10-18-2012, 11:11 AM
Toomer wasn't doing the side-line clutch thing until TC came to town...
whatever....sounds like a scheme or a QB thing then....
either I liked Toomer and thought he was a very good WR

yoeddy
10-18-2012, 11:13 AM
I don't give a **** about his reputation, nor do I care if he made the pro bowl or not. My point is that Toomer was an outstanding player.
I'm fine with those on the outside not giving him his due. But I'm a bit surprised that some fellow Giants fans, who watched him play every game are failing to do so.

Do you think his first 6 seasons reflected the performance of an "outstanding WR"?

Morehead State
10-18-2012, 11:13 AM
May I also remind you all of the great play Toomer made in the Dallas playoff game where he turned a 20 yard gain into a long TD. Without that play we don't win that SB.

yoeddy
10-18-2012, 11:14 AM
whatever....sounds like a scheme or a QB thing then....
either I liked Toomer and thought he was a very good WR

I always felt like it was a coaching thing...he had all the tools, but poor coaching kept him from blooming for a long time. I believe that if he had played under TC earlier, he could have been a perennial Pro Bowl player...

Morehead State
10-18-2012, 11:14 AM
Do you think his first 6 seasons reflected the performance of an "outstanding WR"?
But we are talking about his play with Eli. Toomer's first 6 seasons aren't the point.
Phil Simms first 5 years weren't anything to write home about either, but he turned into a great player.

yoeddy
10-18-2012, 11:14 AM
May I also remind you all of the great play Toomer made in the Dallas playoff game where he turned a 20 yard gain into a long TD. Without that play we don't win that SB.

Yep...under TC, right?

yoeddy
10-18-2012, 11:20 AM
But we are talking about his play with Eli. Toomer's first 6 seasons aren't the point.
Phil Simms first 5 years weren't anything to write home about either, but he turned into a great player.

Sure...I am sure this part of the discussion has diverged a bit. My overall perspective in this context is that Toomer underachieved for much of his career, and at the point where he was playing with Eli, he was already past his athletic prime...but being a veteran, together with strong coaching from TC, Toomer was able to turn his performance around from being an underachieving-disappear-during-crunchtime player into an overachieving-come-up-big-during-clutchtime player. His last 4 years, despite being some of his lowest years yardage-wise and reception-wise ended up being his most impactful years in terms of contributing to the success of the team.

So...I am agreeing with you that Toomer turned out to be a great player playing with Eli...

Morehead State
10-18-2012, 12:20 PM
Sure...I am sure this part of the discussion has diverged a bit. My overall perspective in this context is that Toomer underachieved for much of his career, and at the point where he was playing with Eli, he was already past his athletic prime...but being a veteran, together with strong coaching from TC, Toomer was able to turn his performance around from being an underachieving-disappear-during-crunchtime player into an overachieving-come-up-big-during-clutchtime player. His last 4 years, despite being some of his lowest years yardage-wise and reception-wise ended up being his most impactful years in terms of contributing to the success of the team.

So...I am agreeing with you that Toomer turned out to be a great player playing with Eli...

Plaxico, Toomer. Tiki and Shockey were a nice group of weapons for Eli early in his career. This conversation started with someone claiming that Eli didn't have any weapons early in his career.

giantsfan420
10-18-2012, 12:57 PM
Are you talking about THIS GUY who was selected to the pro bowl twice, neither time as a replacement?

Professional
2011: Super Bowl XLVI Most Valuable Player[109]
2007: Super Bowl XLII Most Valuable Player[110]
2008: November NFC Offensive Player of the Month[111]
2008/2011: 2 Pro Bowl Selection[79]
2011: NFL Record most 4th quarter touchdown passes in a season (15)
2011: Tied NFL Record for longest pass completion and touchdown (99 yards)
Holds NFL Record for most road playoff wins (5)[112]
Most passing yards in a single postseason (1219 yards, 2011)
Super Bowl XLVI: Most consecutive completions to begin a Super Bowl (9)
Active leader for most consecutive starts by a National Football League quarterback (119, 3rd all-time)

NFL records
Most 4th quarter touchdown passes in a season (15 in 2011)
Tied NFL Record longest pass completion and touchdown (99 yards in 2011)
Most road playoff wins by a quarterback (5)
Tied NFL Record most game-winning drives in a season (8 in 2011)
Most road wins in a single regular season and postseason by a starting quarterback (10)
Most passing yards in a single postseason (1,219 yards in 2011)

Giants franchise records
Most passing attempts (season): 589 (2011)
Most completions (season): 359 (2011)
Most passing yards (season): 4,933 (2011)
Longest completed pass: 99 yards (2011)
Most interceptions thrown (season): 25 (2010), tied
Most 4th quarter touchdown passes, season: 15 (NFL record)
Most consecutive starts by a quarterback: 119
Most consecutive pass completions, game: 21 (2011)
Most comeback wins in the 4th quarter (season): 5 (2007, 2011), tied
Most game-winning drives in the 4th quarter/overtime (season): 6 (2007, 2011)
Most career playoff touchdowns: 13 (2011)

THANK YOU EA FOR BEING THE GENIUS YOU ARE!

look at all he's accomplished, and he's just NOW entering his prime. Wow, the future looks bright, the potential is there to do some amazing, once in a generation stuff....

giantsfan420
10-18-2012, 12:59 PM
Harroni, you need to do a much better job of eating crow. You were just wrong, plain and simple when you were asking for Eli's head in the past. It wasn't a question of pointing out what Eli was doing at the time. We were all aware of what he was doing at the time. It was a question of whether he was showing potential to do much better. And you got it wrong. Just admit it and quit making excuses.

As to the quality of our receivers, this season has been eye-opening in that regard. The passing game's performance has practically been the same no matter which receivers have been out there and it has been a varied bunch. How many of our receivers have we lost or gone to other teams where their performance has been less than stellar? You are still not giving Eli his due by implying Eli's performance has been due to his receivers. I guess you are incapable of eating crow.

he's ate his crow altho he does playfully like to stir things up.
but dboone, i gotta tell u, that 1rst paragraph describes so well what I've failed to. from now on, im just gonna copy n paste that first paragraph when needed. well said, EXCELLENT post

giantsfan420
10-18-2012, 01:07 PM
Plaxico, Toomer. Tiki and Shockey were a nice group of weapons for Eli early in his career. This conversation started with someone claiming that Eli didn't have any weapons early in his career.

they certainly were talented. but athleticism and talent dont mean jack when the offense isnt on the same page repeatedly. shockey and burress were beasts, i prob held plex in the same regard as eli, for a while plex was carrying eli tbh or it seemed that way at least with all those amazing circus catch TD's. BUT, I know im not alone when i say i HATED how shockey and burress refused to spend the offseason working with eli. they would "if eli went to south beach to work with them" but then what about the other 30 people on the offensive unit?
and that issue did rear its head in games. that minn 4 pick 2 for pick 6 game for example, 2 ints were a result of shockey not making the proper sight adjustment in which he was supposed to run an out which would take his defender with him which then clears the window for the designed target. he instead curled, which kept his defender in a zone to pick eli off...those kinda things happened ALL THE TIME, probably even more so than the amazing plays shockey and burress would bless us with...

he certainly had weapons, its just they'd jam up on him often. look at the offense now, cruz, randle, barden, hixon...all guys who put in the work with eli and look at eli/the offense now...can u see it from that perspective MS?

giantsfan420
10-18-2012, 01:10 PM
i guess i'd say it like this, eli had weapons, but what he needed was teammates, true teammates. that may seem harsh, but when you compare burress and shockey to lets say cruz and hixon...i'd venture to say most all of us would consider hixon and cruz better teammates

Morehead State
10-18-2012, 01:14 PM
he's ate his crow altho he does playfully like to stir things up.
but dboone, i gotta tell u, that 1rst paragraph describes so well what I've failed to. from now on, im just gonna copy n paste that first paragraph when needed. well said, EXCELLENT post
Because we all know how important it is to you folks to stick it in the faces of fellow Giants fans.

yoeddy
10-18-2012, 01:20 PM
i guess i'd say it like this, eli had weapons, but what he needed was teammates, true teammates. that may seem harsh, but when you compare burress and shockey to lets say cruz and hixon...i'd venture to say most all of us would consider hixon and cruz better teammates

+1

yoeddy
10-18-2012, 01:21 PM
Because we all know how important it is to you folks to stick it in the faces of fellow Giants fans.

Only to the haters...

giantsfan420
10-18-2012, 01:40 PM
Because we all know how important it is to you folks to stick it in the faces of fellow Giants fans.

oh you mean like repeatedly referring to people as eli cultists and constantly remarking about what you dislike about those people and how you are superior to them??? oh ok well as long as thats understood.

JimC
10-18-2012, 02:16 PM
Eli question - Was Eli's string of 200 yard games broken Sunday? I thought Eli had a very long string of 200+ yard games. Yes?

GameTime
10-18-2012, 02:18 PM
Eli question - Was Eli's string of 200 yard games broken Sunday? I thought Eli had a very long string of 200+ yard games. Yes?
check a stats site...
yes it was broken. 193 yards passing,. He had 24 games I think. Second all time. First is Founts with 45(?) or somehitng like that.

EliDaMANning
10-18-2012, 02:25 PM
check a stats site...
yes it was broken. 193 yards passing,. He had 24 games I think. Second all time. First is Founts with 45(?) or somehitng like that.As a fan I wish he got to 200. But i'm even more happy we have a QB who couldn't care less about records and just want to win.

Meanwhile the guy in NO.....

Morehead State
10-18-2012, 02:26 PM
oh you mean like repeatedly referring to people as eli cultists and constantly remarking about what you dislike about those people and how you are superior to them??? oh ok well as long as thats understood.
If i see a guy trying to stick Eli's play in the face of fellow Giants fans, they will hear from me. I didn't start this thread. Just like the other thread about morons and Phillip Rivers.
These threads are always started by guys who want to bring some measure of unhappiness to some Giants fans when we are playing well.

Deal with it. If you want to give it back to me...that's fine. I enjoy the battle.

GameTime
10-18-2012, 02:27 PM
As a fan I wish he got to 200. But i'm even more happy we have a QB who couldn't care less about records and just want to win.

Meanwhile the guy in NO.....

I know...7 lousy yards. Would have been cool to keep it going. Just has to start over thats all.....

rainierjef
10-18-2012, 02:42 PM
Because we all know how important it is to you folks to stick it in the faces of fellow Giants fans.

Children

Morehead State
10-18-2012, 02:48 PM
Children
None of us is "oozing with maturity".

Kruunch
10-18-2012, 02:50 PM
None of us is "oozing with maturity".

I haven't gotten my shots yet, so I might still be oozing.

rainierjef
10-18-2012, 03:05 PM
None of us is "oozing with maturity".

While that is true, Threads like this in fact separate the completely immature from the slighty mature. my question is what was the overall purpose of this 16 page thread? what have we learned?

rainierjef
10-18-2012, 03:05 PM
I haven't gotten my shots yet, so I might still be oozing.

lol this^

Morehead State
10-18-2012, 03:11 PM
While that is true, Threads like this in fact separate the completely immature from the slighty mature. my question is what was the overall purpose of this 16 page thread? what have we learned?
To occupy our minds and fulfill our never ending need to always be right.
That should be obvious to you.