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Kruunch
10-22-2012, 08:39 AM
I feel bad for Jerry Reese ... there is no position of strength for negotiating Cruz's contract.

He's literally a top three receiver in the league. He's not a diva. He's humble. He's hard working (remember he begged off Dancing with the Stars this year). He's dedicated. He's not injury prone. He's done it on the biggest stage.

How can you pay him anything less than one of the top three receivers in the league? And how will we be able to afford that?!

Rudyy
10-22-2012, 08:51 AM
CUT ELI AND JPP!

Gimaniac
10-22-2012, 08:53 AM
s@cks being this good

NYFG
10-22-2012, 08:56 AM
But but but he joined the Illuminati

NYFG
10-22-2012, 09:11 AM
I feel bad for Jerry Reese ... there is no position of strength for negotiating Cruz's contract.

He just needs to point to his two SB rings. The Giants are in prime position to get another one with in the next two or three years. Doubt Cruz can go anywhere else and have as good a chance at winning another title than if he stayed with the Giants.

GMENAGAIN
10-22-2012, 09:14 AM
How many years can we keep Cruz locked up for if we don't negotiate a new long-term deal -- between what's left on his current deal and the number of times that we can tag him? That's JR's negotiating power . . . .

Kruunch
10-22-2012, 09:17 AM
He just needs to point to his two SB rings. The Giants are in prime position to get another one with in the next two or three years. Doubt Cruz can go anywhere else and have as good a chance at winning another title than if he stayed with the Giants.

That has a little less weight since Cruz has one of those rings (and was a big part of why we got that one). And he's easily worth $10+ million a year and I just don't see the Giants willing to pony up that kind of scratch.

Kruunch
10-22-2012, 09:18 AM
How many years can we keep Cruz locked up for if we don't negotiate a new long-term deal -- between what's left on his current deal and the number of times that we can tag him? That's JR's negotiating power . . . .

After QB, receivers have the highest tag number right now. If you're going to tag him, might as well just give him a deal. I just hope we can figure out how we can do that with the utter lack of cap space we have right now (and until 2014 basically).

GMENAGAIN
10-22-2012, 09:35 AM
After QB, receivers have the highest tag number right now. If you're going to tag him, might as well just give him a deal. I just hope we can figure out how we can do that with the utter lack of cap space we have right now (and until 2014 basically).

Regardless, the prospect of playing on one year deals for the next 3 or 4 years is what scares the player . . . .that's where JR's negotiating power lies.

JB456
10-22-2012, 10:18 AM
I feel bad for Jerry Reese ... there is no position of strength for negotiating Cruz's contract.

He's literally a top three receiver in the league. He's not a diva. He's humble. He's hard working (remember he begged off Dancing with the Stars this year). He's dedicated. He's not injury prone. He's done it on the biggest stage.

How can you pay him anything less than one of the top three receivers in the league? And how will we be able to afford that?!

Reese needs to sign Cruz before his contract ends and he hits the open market. If there were any doubts of Cruz being a one year wonder, they have been alleviated.

Kruunch
10-22-2012, 10:25 AM
Regardless, the prospect of playing on one year deals for the next 3 or 4 years is what scares the player . . . .that's where JR's negotiating power lies.


That's not how the franchise tag works and there is now an escalator for each successive year. A huge deal would still be cheaper then franchising him for more then one year.

drewz
10-22-2012, 10:28 AM
Cruz is a restricted free agent after this year, so he doesn't get UFA franchise tag money. RFA tender is something like $2 million, so if there's no long term deal in the off season, he'll still be a Giant next year.

And I'm sorry, as much as I love Cruz.. He is not a 10 million/yr receiver.. that is Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald money.. He's worth something along the lines that Antonio Brown got like 7yr/45mill..

dmighty326
10-22-2012, 10:29 AM
What is Ahmad making? I know he signed a new contract recently. If cutting Ahmad n not resigning Osi and black unicorn meant keeping Cruz n nicks, I'm in. Roll with brown n Wilson.

VBGiantsFan
10-22-2012, 10:35 AM
Cruz is a restricted free agent after this year, so he doesn't get UFA franchise tag money. RFA tender is something like $2 million, so if there's no long term deal in the off season, he'll still be a Giant next year.

And I'm sorry, as much as I love Cruz.. He is not a 10 million/yr receiver.. that is Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald money.. He's worth something along the lines that Antonio Brown got like 7yr/45mill..

I totally disagree with you. Cruz is worth every bit to this team that Megatron and Fitzgerald are to their teams. Cruz is the spark plug that makes our WR corp work so well together. He makes the huge play when we need it the most.

If you ask me, Cruz deserves Calvin Johnson money and Nicks deserves to make less.

RoanokeFan
10-22-2012, 10:40 AM
That's not how the franchise tag works and there is now an escalator for each successive year. A huge deal would still be cheaper then franchising him for more then one year. The Giants avoid the franchise tag. They have sparingly applied it to bridge negotiations but they want to have long term agreements with play makers.

Toadofsteel
10-22-2012, 10:41 AM
If you ask me, Cruz deserves Calvin Johnson money and Nicks deserves to make less.

Nicks is still the better receiver and draws a lot more coverage, allowing Cruz to break out week after week. Cruz is also humble enough to realize that being on the field with Nicks improves his own stats. It won't be cheap, but JR and Cruz will work something out...

If we're talking unfortunate cap casualties to otherwise good players, I'd say that after the obvious cuts/non-renewals (Osi, Diehl), the next one to go is KP. Stevie Brown may not be at the level of KP yet, but he has the physical potential and once he works through the rookie mistakes, he will be just as much a beast as KP ever was... I used to think Bradshaw was on the line next year after he started slow and Brown emerged, but the way he's running now he may have saved himself.

Kruunch
10-22-2012, 10:48 AM
Cruz is a restricted free agent after this year, so he doesn't get UFA franchise tag money. RFA tender is something like $2 million, so if there's no long term deal in the off season, he'll still be a Giant next year.

And I'm sorry, as much as I love Cruz.. He is not a 10 million/yr receiver.. that is Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald money.. He's worth something along the lines that Antonio Brown got like 7yr/45mill..

The RFA tag may (or may not depending how desperate a team is) save us a little anguish but it would still put us in the same position in 2014 and more then likely alienate Cruz.

And Cruz is indeed worth Fitz/Megatron money based on stats alone (at least last years and what he's piling up this year).

RoanokeFan
10-22-2012, 10:51 AM
Cruz is a restricted free agent after this year, so he doesn't get UFA franchise tag money. RFA tender is something like $2 million, so if there's no long term deal in the off season, he'll still be a Giant next year. And I'm sorry, as much as I love Cruz.. He is not a 10 million/yr receiver.. that is Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald money.. He's worth something along the lines that Antonio Brown got like 7yr/45mill..

I think you may be wrong on what Cruz is worth

GMENAGAIN
10-22-2012, 11:33 AM
That's not how the franchise tag works and there is now an escalator for each successive year. A huge deal would still be cheaper then franchising him for more then one year.

It's not a matter of being cheaper . . . it's a matter of the player wanting some long-term security to avoid the risk of playing on successive one-year deals. That's the only thing that the team will be able to leverage here. Not that I'm saying this will help us to get Cruz signed cheaply . . . . the man is going to get paid.

joemorrisforprez
10-22-2012, 11:34 AM
I feel bad for Jerry Reese ... there is no position of strength for negotiating Cruz's contract.

He's literally a top three receiver in the league. He's not a diva. He's humble. He's hard working (remember he begged off Dancing with the Stars this year). He's dedicated. He's not injury prone. He's done it on the biggest stage.

How can you pay him anything less than one of the top three receivers in the league? And how will we be able to afford that?!

No way they are letting Cruz go.....next to Eli he's the must clutch player on the team.

joemorrisforprez
10-22-2012, 11:37 AM
Cruz is a restricted free agent after this year, so he doesn't get UFA franchise tag money. RFA tender is something like $2 million, so if there's no long term deal in the off season, he'll still be a Giant next year.

And I'm sorry, as much as I love Cruz.. He is not a 10 million/yr receiver.. that is Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald money.. He's worth something along the lines that Antonio Brown got like 7yr/45mill..

With all due respect, Antonio Brown is not the equal of Victor Cruz.

Cruz is going to demand - and deserve - top position money.

dnotch121
10-22-2012, 12:01 PM
Jr can easily say "look fool follow the money and you'll end up like that last slot guy" case closed lol

GMENAGAIN
10-22-2012, 12:04 PM
Jr can easily say "look fool follow the money and you'll end up like that last slot guy" case closed lol

Yeah, that'll work . . . .

FrankAE
10-22-2012, 12:17 PM
I'm not doubting how good he is, I agree he's staut and compliments Nicks in the best way. But he is not top three in the league. Let run it down who is hands down, Megatron, Fitz, Andre Johnson then there's a second level of best. Where guys like Nicks and Cruz come into play. I do think they are the league's best tandem probably league's best 3 set, but Green bay edge's them out when talking entire reciever group.

RoanokeFan
10-22-2012, 12:19 PM
Jr can easily say "look fool follow the money and you'll end up like that last slot guy" case closed lol

Seriously?

ryan12
10-22-2012, 12:23 PM
cruz is the type of player you dont let go... the thought of him doing on the salsa on any other team then ours make me sick to my stomach. no way the let him walk. and i think he loves playing for the giants

Kruunch
10-22-2012, 12:37 PM
I'm not doubting how good he is, I agree he's staut and compliments Nicks in the best way. But he is not top three in the league. Let run it down who is hands down, Megatron, Fitz, Andre Johnson then there's a second level of best. Where guys like Nicks and Cruz come into play. I do think they are the league's best tandem probably league's best 3 set, but Green bay edge's them out when talking entire reciever group.

Heh check your stats.

EliDaMANning
10-22-2012, 12:42 PM
Clinging onto the idea that Cruz will stay for less money because of his chances winning SB is not the best option in the NFL. As a matter of fact he has his ring now, the next big thing he wants is the $$$.

He will not be cheap and I doubt he will take a significant discount to stay because this is the NFL, not NBA where contracts are guaranteed.

PRGiant
10-22-2012, 04:03 PM
Thing is, those guys do it as a true #1. Have you seen Megatron's contract?! No way we give that to Cruz. $138m/8 years, $60m guaranteed. NO WAY.

slipknottin
10-22-2012, 05:02 PM
Cruz isnt worth top 5 money. Top 15 yes. The thing that helps most is that Cruz is a RFA this season, he can be tagged cheap.

RoanokeFan
10-22-2012, 05:09 PM
I'm not doubting how good he is, I agree he's staut and compliments Nicks in the best way. But he is not top three in the league. Let run it down who is hands down, Megatron, Fitz, Andre Johnson then there's a second level of best. Where guys like Nicks and Cruz come into play. I do think they are the league's best tandem probably league's best 3 set, but Green bay edge's them out when talking entire reciever group.

What would his stats have to look like to be in the top 3?

giant-4-life
10-22-2012, 05:12 PM
We shall see if he's a quality guy like Eli and work out the money issue this time around. I would take less on contract and more on a guaranteed bonus. 5 mil on the contract and maybe 7-10 mill as a bonus. bonus's I heard are garaunteed. well whatever.. we need to lock him up

RoanokeFan
10-22-2012, 05:15 PM
I think Reese will do what he always does; put forward a reasonable offer and negotiate to a successful conclusion. If Cruz continues on his current path, someone is going to offer him a boat load of money at the appropriate time. It may as well be Jerry Reese.

PETEY006
10-22-2012, 05:20 PM
I think he's a great reciever but i also feel that Eli is a big part of his success.

If a team like Jacksonville offer him a big contract, he won't post the same number b/c they don't have an elite QB like Eli Manning

I think playing in new york gives him the best chance to win another superbowl. I hope we can get a discount on that reason...

NorwoodBlue
10-22-2012, 05:24 PM
These guys have to consider a couple things: 1) If you want to win you can't always take the top dollar contract offered, and 2) if you stay in NY and win you can make a pile of money in endorsements.


Cruz, more than any player in the league I can think of, owes his team a deep debt of gratitude for giving him the chance to be on the field. He was an undrafted free agent that JR liked, and he's reaping huge benefits because of what the Giants did for him. He can afford to give up a little at contract time and play in his back yard for a long time to come. He's a Jersey boy, and that counts for a lot too, even though he liked the 'Boys when he was growing up.

Then there's the system factor. The Giants have at least four recievers with 100 yd games this year, so there's no guarantee in my mind that any of these guys goes elsewhere and has the success they have as a Giant. If they move away from Eli, they're taking a huge chance that they're going to play for a sub-par QB, and aren't going to have anywhere near the success they had in NY.


If I'm Victor, I want to stay a Giant really bad; and if I'm JR, I don't want to open the door to free agency. I say they extend him now, and get rid of the free agent hassle.

gumby74
10-22-2012, 05:25 PM
imo, Cruz is not worth Fitz/Calvin Johnson money. If that's what teams are willing to give him, let him walk. We have better places to invest 10+ million.

Tmurda1984
10-22-2012, 06:03 PM
Cruz does deserve TOP 5 receiver money because truly he is our number 1 receiver. I really really like Nicks, but this guy cannot stay healthy...if it wasn't for having Cruz here, we would of been struggling with Nicks and Barden out of the lineup. Out of all our receivers Cruz is the most reliable by performance and attendance....I dont see Nicks, Barden, or even Hixon prove they can stay healthy. Cruz can play inside as well as outside...it very hard to double team a receiver like this. Any fan that doesn't believe Cruz is worthy of that type of contract is siding with idiots like Roddy White.

Riverboat76
10-22-2012, 06:04 PM
These guys have to consider a couple things: 1) If you want to win you can't always take the top dollar contract offered, and 2) if you stay in NY and win you can make a pile of money in endorsements.


Cruz, more than any player in the league I can think of, owes his team a deep debt of gratitude for giving him the chance to be on the field. He was an undrafted free agent that JR liked, and he's reaping huge benefits because of what the Giants did for him. He can afford to give up a little at contract time and play in his back yard for a long time to come. He's a Jersey boy, and that counts for a lot too, even though he liked the 'Boys when he was growing up.

Then there's the system factor. The Giants have at least four recievers with 100 yd games this year, so there's no guarantee in my mind that any of these guys goes elsewhere and has the success they have as a Giant. If they move away from Eli, they're taking a huge chance that they're going to play for a sub-par QB, and aren't going to have anywhere near the success they had in NY.


If I'm Victor, I want to stay a Giant really bad; and if I'm JR, I don't want to open the door to free agency. I say they extend him now, and get rid of the free agent hassle.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but the Giants cannot play around with this deal. Cruz is the straw that stirs the drink. He's the best skill position player the Giants have ever had. Guys like Desean and Vincent Jackson are making $10 million/ year...he's worth at least that much and the Giants need to make a fair deal. Heck, Pierre Garcon makes almost $9 million/year. That's the going rate for talented (and not so talented) WRs. Hopefully he realizes that he is in the right situation, the right city, the right QB and he doesn't try and go for every last penny. But if I could lock him up for 5 years/ $50 million, I do it.

Tmurda1984
10-22-2012, 06:09 PM
Reese won't do it...I dont see Cruz and Nicks playing together in the future. I think this is the reason Barden and Hixon been around sooo long even though they cant stay healthy. Even drafting Jernigan and Randle shows the Giants are creating alot of depth just in case we lost one of these receivers as a cap casualty. Nicks is playing on a rookie contract and Cruz is playing just above league minimum...and LOL we are still tight against the cap. Also remember Phillips is playing on a rookie contract and what if guys like JPP outperform his rookie contract again this year.

Eliscruzzz
10-22-2012, 06:19 PM
Reese needs to sign Cruz before his contract ends and he hits the open market. If there were any doubts of Cruz being a one year wonder, they have been alleviated.Even when his contract ends he is a RFA. Giants get the first crack at him...