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View Full Version : If Trey Junkin doesn't botch his snap, would we have Eli?



Toadofsteel
10-22-2012, 05:56 PM
A little thought experiment. If the snap wasn't botched and we beat SF, how far do we go in the playoffs? Does it affect our 2003 season performance, and would that push Eli out of our reach? If so, where does he end up?

We should try to get dameshek to do an N 'if' L on this...

GFiP
10-22-2012, 06:01 PM
That defense didnt deserve to win anything anyway.

fansince69
10-22-2012, 06:04 PM
interesting question....Honestly I dont see how that play affects us the next year other than our draft picks...we might have moved a spot or 2
we were not a real good team that year...we got some breaks and made the play offs...but i don't think any real fan believed we were going very far....and then 2003 we just were back to really bad again and the rest is history

MaekloTau
10-22-2012, 06:13 PM
interesting question....Honestly I dont see how that play affects us the next year other than our draft picks...we might have moved a spot or 2
we were not a real good team that year...we got some breaks and made the play offs...but i don't think any real fan believed we were going very far....and then 2003 we just were back to really bad again and the rest is history

I disagree. If I recall, Kerry Collins was just piling up the points at the end of that season. I'm not saying its probable but it was possible we could have beaten TB. They did not have a very good offense, if Collins had a good day its possible. Now as for 2003 there may have been some momentum carry over into 2003, maybe enough to win 5-6 game which really would have put us in a tough spot to get Manning.

In the end though., Accorsi was going to give up anything to get Manning. Maybe Roethlisberger would have been in SD and Rivers in Pitt.

fansince69
10-22-2012, 06:36 PM
I disagree. If I recall, Kerry Collins was just piling up the points at the end of that season. I'm not saying its probable but it was possible we could have beaten TB. They did not have a very good offense, if Collins had a good day its possible. Now as for 2003 there may have been some momentum carry over into 2003, maybe enough to win 5-6 game which really would have put us in a tough spot to get Manning.

In the end though., Accorsi was going to give up anything to get Manning. Maybe Roethlisberger would have been in SD and Rivers in Pitt.
even if we did happen to go further......that 93 season was terrible...the players literally gave up....I can't see how anything could have changed that

BigBlueAllDay
10-22-2012, 08:18 PM
This is a classic what if. If the snap wasn't botched or the refs got the offsetting penalties correct, Matt Bryant would still need to hit the long FG as well which is no guarantee. Then the Giants would have to go through Eagles and then the Superbowl Champion Bucs and then beat Oakland.The Giants were the hottest team going into the playoffs, but I'd have to admit that was the Bucs year. Their roster was loaded and their defense was at the apex of their franchise history (warren sapp, ronde barber, derrick brooks, simeon rice, john lynch in their primes, just to name a few). Of course, no disrepect for Fassell, but if you used a time machine and sent Tom Coughlin and the current coaching staff back in time, we would have possibly won it all and the 2000 superbowl as well.

Toadofsteel
10-22-2012, 08:22 PM
You really think coaching alone would have won us the SB in 2000? I mean yeah we dropped a 40 burger on minnesota in the title game, but the 2000 ravens are considered the best defense ever in some circles, topping even the 85 bears...

BigBlueAllDay
10-22-2012, 08:32 PM
You really think coaching alone would have won us the SB in 2000? I mean yeah we dropped a 40 burger on minnesota in the title game, but the 2000 ravens are considered the best defense ever in some circles, topping even the 85 bears...

Tom Coughlin beat the best offense ever in 2007. Gameplanning against the opponent is important and that is what Tom Coughlin and the coaching staff excels at. In 2000, the Giants got too pass happy after the NFC championship, abandoned the running game that got them there, and played right into the Ravens defense and lost control of the game. I'm not saying they should have won, but it could have been a lot closer than a 37-7 rout.

Captain Chaos
10-22-2012, 08:36 PM
Tom Coughlin beat the best offense ever in 2007. Gameplanning against the opponent is important and that is what Tom Coughlin and the coaching staff excels at. In 2000, the Giants got too pass happy after the NFC championship, abandoned the running game that got them there, and played right into the Ravens defense and lost control of the game. I'm not saying they should have won, but it could have been a lot closer than a 37-7 rout.

That has to be one of the worst SB's I've ever watched!

jomo
10-22-2012, 08:38 PM
Only the Super Bowl winner changes place in the draft as a result of post season play. Every one else stays put. Understanding that, we would have still gotten Eli.

bigblue58
10-22-2012, 10:14 PM
A little thought experiment. If the snap wasn't botched and we beat SF, how far do we go in the playoffs? Does it affect our 2003 season performance, and would that push Eli out of our reach? If so, where does he end up?

We should try to get dameshek to do an N 'if' L on this...

Man.....stop talking like that, I don't even want to think about it! When I think back to those teams in between LT's last season and Eli's first I actually get depressed!
Every Sunday was a downer and I never want to experience the aftermath of SB 35 EVER AGAIN!
These young Giants fans have been spoiled compared to what we old farts had to watch between those years. Maybe thats why the older guys here have been more patient in defending Eli's ascent to his current greatness.
You youngsters didn't have to watch Ray Handley butchering a season! Gosh...i'm shuddering just recalling that horror show.

NYG 5
10-22-2012, 11:23 PM
Tom Coughlin beat the best offense ever in 2007. Gameplanning against the opponent is important and that is what Tom Coughlin and the coaching staff excels at. In 2000, the Giants got too pass happy after the NFC championship, abandoned the running game that got them there, and played right into the Ravens defense and lost control of the game. I'm not saying they should have won, but it could have been a lot closer than a 37-7 rout.

they weren't going to run against the ravens. they're blocking at the point of attack, and more importantly, blocking downfield (which should have been their strength as a finesse offensive line), was atrocious. every chance they had to run a good screen, or a counter, got blown up because pulling lineman couldn't get a hand on those raven defenders. they also couldn't pass protect on third down in the first half, and collins heard footsteps for the rest of the game even if pressure wasn't there. but as a whole, the team didn't come to play that game. Strahan played well, Tiki played well, all things considered. Griffin played well. Dixon had potential that game as well. Armstead played pretty well too. thats about it. Toomer did nothing, Collins imploded, Sehorn fell down, Thomas and Shaun WIlliams blew coverage, the defense as a whole couldn't swarm over the Ravens line the way they did to a good Viking line. very strange game, very bad game. that was a great raven defense, but the team as a whole was just very good. when the defense is all world and the offense sucks, you always have a shot at beating them, and the Giants had their chance to turn the game around in the second quarter but couldn't. first when they give up a gimme long pass down the sideline on third and long at the Raven 15 yard line, then Collins turns it over on first and 10 at the raven 28 yardline. that was a tough team to face, but certainly beatable, more beatable than a 18-0 team.

as for 2002, they could beat philly. the only question is whether they could get through the bucs. they got manhandled by them the following season on MNF, but that was with a scab offensive line. the 2002 line was better, had a healthy shockey, #3 scoring defense in the league. it would have been interesting. winning in that building would have been huge.

as far as getting Eli goes, if Junkingate never happens, everything depends on however Kerry Collins played the rest of that postseason. guy throws 5 TDs on the road if Shockey could catch a football. like today's Eli, he was a 30 year old player at the time who had settled into an offense for 3 years and had seemed to have shaken any big game skittishness, was entering his prime. EA would have used that Tampa game, and any ensuing postseason games in 2002 and 2003 to gauge whether Collins was going to become "the guy who could lead his team down the field in the big game". if there was any shred of doubt, he was going to pull the trigger on Eli no matter the cost. and the rug was pulled from under the Fassel era before he could use those mid 2000s players, so it made the decision to go after Eli all the easier.

i think EA's mind was already made up, regardless of what happened with Junkingate. what you have to ask is, had Super Bowl XXXV not resulted in a meltdown which left an everlasting wound, which compounded itself with those unbelievable, late game losses in 2001 and 2002, would the team have been in a position to need him? for example, this current team consistently winning these big, clutch, comeback victories has set its confidence so high. those early 2000's teams lost so many late, close games, that they were so mentally fragile that they collapsed halfway through 2003. had the Giants not been so skittish, i think they would have been like the early 2000s Packers, and probably not have taken any younger quarterbacks since they had the poor man's Tom Brady.

par404
10-23-2012, 12:25 AM
A little thought experiment. If the snap wasn't botched and we beat SF, how far do we go in the playoffs? Does it affect our 2003 season performance, and would that push Eli out of our reach? If so, where does he end up?

We should try to get dameshek to do an N 'if' L on this...

Too much speculation. If Joe Pisarcik and Conzka not batched the snap in 1978, would we have gotten Phil Simms?

fansince69
10-23-2012, 01:18 AM
Too much speculation. If Joe Pisarcik and Conzka not batched the snap in 1978, would we have gotten Phil Simms?

How would the saints have done if they had drafted LT instead of george rogers?

greenca190
10-23-2012, 02:15 AM
Would I have had so much diarrhea today if I didn't eat all of those gummy worms?

GMan-67
10-23-2012, 02:30 AM
i hope you are simply admiring Toad's from a safe distance