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View Full Version : Our play calling needs to change once we establish a lead in the 4th



WinterIsComing
10-23-2012, 12:26 PM
Too many times to we opt for passing plays when we have the lead in the 4th. We need to run more and chew up the clock. It's a big reason why we have a hard time closing teams out, we're always giving them more time than they should have to make plays.

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 12:35 PM
Don't you have to have a consistently good running game to accomplish that? Also, doesn't the defense you're playing against dictate your play calling to some degree?

fansince69
10-23-2012, 12:39 PM
Don't you have to have a consistently good running game to accomplish that? Also, doesn't the defense you're playing against dictate your play calling to some degree?

You know I hate when you use logic...it just messes with everything

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 12:47 PM
You know I hate when you use logic...it just messes with everything

I may be alone in this, but on Sunday I thought we weren't running very well while the opposition was. I believe that if our defense hadn't held them to 3 field goals we would have lost that game. I am the first to admit I don't know anything about calling plays in the NFL, but if I had been Coughlin I would have been pass happy just to stay even with the Redskins.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am always saying don't abandon the run. But sometimes......

fansince69
10-23-2012, 12:50 PM
I may be alone in this, but on Sunday I thought we weren't running very well while the opposition was. I believe that our the defense hadn't held them to 3 field goals we would have lost that game. I am the first to admit I don't know anything about calling plays in the NFL, but if I had been Coughlin I would have been pass happy just to stay even with the Redskins.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am always saying don't abandon the run. But sometimes......
I won't say we were running well...but early in the game we seemed to be running effectively enough to keep their defense honest....We probably abandoned it too early.......honestly it is so much fun to watch eli and these receivers work...that sometimes i lose track of the run

BuffyBlueII
10-23-2012, 01:01 PM
I may be alone in this, but on Sunday I thought we weren't running very well while the opposition was. I believe that our the defense hadn't held them to 3 field goals we would have lost that game. I am the first to admit I don't know anything about calling plays in the NFL, but if I had been Coughlin I would have been pass happy just to stay even with the Redskins.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am always saying don't abandon the run. But sometimes......

Like you, I readily admit that I am not qualified to call plays in NFL but I do think we gave up on the run a little too early yesterday. Ahmad Bradshaw was close a couple times to breaking one and when he gave Victor Cruz the little slap to the helmet it was because if VC had made the block on that play, AB would have gotten a bit more yards and may have taken that one to the house.

Roosevelt
10-23-2012, 01:06 PM
Eli checked out of several run plays because of the defense according to Marty B.

GameTime
10-23-2012, 01:10 PM
Eli checked out of several run plays because of the defense according to Marty B.

so Eli sucks right along with KG......

now I am seeing the whole picture....

I knew it....they should be 7-0 right now....

TheAnalyst
10-23-2012, 01:11 PM
Eli was having an off day though, you could tell from the very begining. Everything was high. He missed Cruz on a few TDs too. And those INTs, the first was a high bad throw, the second was a misread. He just wasnt on his game.

GameTime
10-23-2012, 01:15 PM
Eli was having an off day though, you could tell from the very begining. Everything was high. He missed Cruz on a few TDs too. And those INTs, the first was a high bad throw, the second was a misread. He just wasnt on his game.
he missed CRuz on a "few" TDs?????

TheAnalyst
10-23-2012, 01:17 PM
he missed CRuz on a "few" TDs?????

2 that I saw. The quick slant on 3rd and 1 he threw behind him and the deep ball, I think it was the 3rd quarter. Just over threw him or it was another bomb TD.

He will bounce back, but just a bad game.

JayMas9
10-23-2012, 01:21 PM
When you have one of the best quarterbacks in the nfl, and your lead is not large, you need to be able to throw the ball to consistently get first downs and work the clock down. An over-conservative approach with the inconsistent running game we have would lead to us losing games.

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 01:29 PM
I won't say we were running well...but early in the game we seemed to be running effectively enough to keep their defense honest....We probably abandoned it too early.......honestly it is so much fun to watch eli and these receivers work...that sometimes i lose track of the run

Maybe I should have said seeing how much ground the Redskins were gaining and eating up the clock, we had to respond with the part of our game that has become our bread and butter; Air Eli

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 01:31 PM
he missed CRuz on a "few" TDs?????

Agreed, and I'm not trashing Eli before anyone gets defensive. It happens, Eli moved on and saved the game.

GiantGremlin
10-23-2012, 03:21 PM
When you have one of the best quarterbacks in the nfl, and your lead is not large, you need to be able to throw the ball to consistently get first downs and work the clock down. An over-conservative approach with the inconsistent running game we have would lead to us losing games.

True, but I thought the Giants took it to an extreme in the 4th - there was no need to throw on 1st down in back to back series w/under 7 min to go even if the Skins were expecting run - part of the strategy to run is to take time off the clock or make your opponent burn TO's. They could have still mixed in both w/o being too conservative. I know the run game/O-line was inconsistent, but you have to show you have faith in them as well.

Kruunch
10-23-2012, 03:44 PM
Don't you have to have a consistently good running game to accomplish that? Also, doesn't the defense you're playing against dictate your play calling to some degree?

Yes and no. Even a poor run game still takes off more time on the clock.

However TC and KG have both been quoted as saying that they don't like becoming conservative towards the end of games when the game is still in doubt. Since we haven't blown many 4th quarter leads (especially to lose a game) I think their style is working.

oldgiantfan
10-23-2012, 05:29 PM
In the old days we'd go into a shell too soon. It was like a prevent offense instead of a prevent defense. Then we'd lose games because we just sat back on a run out the clock offense. I like the excitement and although the clock management hasn't been optimal it is at least better than losing by sitting on our hands.

jax5338
10-23-2012, 05:36 PM
In the old days we'd go into a shell too soon. It was like a prevent offense instead of a prevent defense. Then we'd lose games because we just sat back on a run out the clock offense. I like the excitement and although the clock management hasn't been optimal it is at least better than losing by sitting on our hands.

yep exactly.

drove me nuts that we would go what i like to call "3 and out mode" whenever they had a lead. i feel like it killed us in the desean jackson pr td eagles game in 2010.

washington has the worst pass defense in the league, so my guess is that the giants were trying to exploit them by getting some 1st downs by throwing it in typical running situations.

obviously it did not work out as eli threw that bad pick when he didnt see the LB in the passing lane and threw it right to him, but i don't think it was an awful approach, just poor execution. giants are a passing team now, so you gotta stick to your guns.

keyofgmen
10-23-2012, 05:38 PM
News flash...Giants passing game is more effective than the running game. Really not that complicated. If Giants need 4 yards, they are more likely to get it by pass than by run. Don't get me wrong..I'm an ole dude that would rather see a "run it down their throat" kind of team, but it just simply is not more reliable than the pass game right now. When I see a hand off to Bradshaw, I hope for a nice gain, but expect a yard or two. It used to be other way around..when Eli went back to pass, it was a hope and a prayer. Now I'm much more confident in pass game, but hoping for a good run game.

BlueSanta
10-23-2012, 06:44 PM
This is not a complicated issue.


There have been multiple articles written about Gilbride and this offense. They all say the same thing the offense is designed around taking what the defense gives. If defenses load up the box, we go to the air. If defenses play nickle or dime all game, we pound the rock.


When we have a 4th quarter lead I would certainly like to see us run more. At times, I do not think we make enough effort to run the clock out. I said this 2 years ago for the infamous punt return game vs the Eagles where we hardly ran the ball in the 3rd quarter when we had a big lead. However, this offense just does not ignore how the defense lines up and when you are down in the 4th quarter on defense you play to stop the run. and so, we pass more than most.

Diamondring
10-23-2012, 07:00 PM
I agree the play calling should change but that should happen almost every week. I like our offense and it has perform well. I think we should not run the clock out all of the time. We have a very powerful offense and people want to limit it like our blockers can get the best out of all the D-lines in the NFL. Our O-line is not that powerful and is enough to win championships. All players have attributes guys so stop acting like they can do everything.

hungrrrry
10-23-2012, 07:15 PM
Too many times to we opt for passing plays when we have the lead in the 4th. We need to run more and chew up the clock. It's a big reason why we have a hard time closing teams out, we're always giving them more time than they should have to make plays.

If you only run the ball teams will focus on stopping the run...3 and out and you are giving them the ball. You should mix it up, but they need to be effective plays...not the long ball, not even the mid-range ball...screens and dump offs are sufficient and when they key on the short play, keep'em honestly with a long ball.

you can't commit only to the run when ahead...you need to play to win and play hard..

Diamondring
10-23-2012, 07:17 PM
If you only run the ball teams will focus on stopping the run...3 and out and you are giving them the ball. You should mix it up, but they need to be effective plays...not the long ball, not even the mid-range ball...screens and dump offs are sufficient and when they key on the short play, keep'em honestly with a long ball.

you can't commit only to the run when ahead...you need to play to win and play hard..Listen to him. HE KNOWS!!!

oldgiantfan
10-23-2012, 07:23 PM
In this league there's never a lead that's big enough to just keep running. If you're talking about clock management then that's another thread. But sit on a lead? Never. In this league you've got to put the opponent out of their misery or you're in danger of losing the game.

moosedrool
10-23-2012, 07:35 PM
If our defense was stopping them they would have called more running plays. The fact is, we couldn't stop Alfred Morris and we couldn't stop RG3. More than 20 points would be needed to win the game, so they stayed agressive. I find it amusing people don't realize that and think they are better offensive coordinators than the one we have who has two super bowl rings.

Diamondring
10-23-2012, 07:38 PM
If our defense was stopping them they would have called more running plays. The fact is, we couldn't stop Alfred Morris and we couldn't stop RG3. More than 20 points would be needed to win the game, so they stayed agressive. I find it amusing people don't realize that and think they are better offensive coordinators than the one we have who has two super bowl rings.What a shame. Makes me said.

BigBlueAllDay
10-23-2012, 07:48 PM
Clock Management with lead: If a team justs run, run, run, punts assuming no timeout can be called and no forced turnovers, snapping the ball after 39 seconds (40 second play clock) per down, that's 2 minutes and 36 seconds clock-kill minimum per possession. Tacking on the 5 seconds per running play and 4 seconds for the fair-catch punt, that's close to 3 minutes total. It's almost inexcuseable for some of the huge late comebacks aka meltdowns that we had to endure, but ---- happens.

Drez
10-23-2012, 08:32 PM
And once we give up a 4Q lead because of 3 and outs, people will ***** that we didn't stay aggressive enough...