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View Full Version : Chase Blackburn: Helping or Hurting The Giants' Defense?



RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 03:35 PM
http://www.bigblueview.com/2012/10/23/3543680/chase-blackburn-new-york-giants-mark-herzlich

Excerpt: "One of the most polarizing topics regarding the New York Giants (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/new-york-giants) these days revolves around the performance of middle linebacker Chase Blackburn (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/2207/chase-blackburn).

Is Blackburn's perceived lack of athleticism and ability physically dominate the line of scrimmage killing the Giants, especially in run defense?

Does Blackburn's intelligence, knowledge of the intricacies of the Giants' defense and his ability to get both himself and kis teammates lined up properly help the Giants' defense more than any lack of physical skills might be detrimental?

How long is Blackburn going to keep the middle linebacker seat warm forMark Herzlich (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/131182/mark-herzlich), anyway?

So, let's discuss Blackburn.

Traditional statistics tell us that Blackburn actually leads the Giants in tackles with 42. He has two sacks, two forced fumbles (both Sunday vs. theWashington Redskins (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/washington-redskins)) and an interception. So, those raw numbers are not bad.

Pro Football Focus, though, would have us believe that Blackburn is the weak link in the Giants' defense. He is, by far, the lowest-graded player in the PFF +/- system, with a score of -14.7 for season, including what looks like an awful -11.2 score vs. the run." Read more...

Kruunch
10-23-2012, 03:42 PM
Ohhhh goodie ... it's been FOREVER since we've discussed CB :p

Buddy333
10-23-2012, 03:43 PM
This should be good. Lol.

Old Giant
10-23-2012, 03:43 PM
So he doesn't make it to Canton as a MLB. Its the Coaches decision on who gets to play. If Herzlich was ready, they would start him.
Blackburn is the type of guy you want on your team and every team has one like him.
He hasn't lost us a game yet.

My two cents.

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 03:44 PM
Keeps life interesting. Guess on Pages?

TheEnigma
10-23-2012, 03:46 PM
Keeps life interesting. Guess on Pages?

15+

GMENAGAIN
10-23-2012, 03:48 PM
Blackburn is not a good starting NFL MLB as a whole, but he is a very likeable, hard-working guy who, in spite of his shortcomings, is able to make plays here and there.

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 03:49 PM
Blackburn is not a good starting NFL MLB as a whole, but he is a very likeable, hard-working guy who, in spite of his shortcomings, is able to make plays here and there.

That's a fair assessment

EnragedYouth85
10-23-2012, 03:53 PM
Blackburn is not a good starting NFL MLB as a whole, but he is a very likeable, hard-working guy who, in spite of his shortcomings, is able to make plays here and there.

Agreed! Is there someone out there that's better? Totally! Is there someone out there on our team thats better? Apparently not..

Giant stuck in Texas
10-23-2012, 03:56 PM
Ohhhh goodie ... it's been FOREVER since we've discussed CB :plmao

Roosevelt
10-23-2012, 03:58 PM
Chase reminds me of AP, but a just hair faster.

GameTime
10-23-2012, 03:58 PM
Hey Slip this one is for you....lol


So, don't kid yourself. The Giants understand what they have -- and don't have -- with Blackburn quarterbacking the defense.
Right now, they obviously believe all of the intangible things outweigh any physical limitations.
Considering how much success they have enjoyed since Blackburn got up off his couch and put on the No. 93 jersey that is hard to argue with.

GiantWarfare
10-23-2012, 03:58 PM
As lacking as Chase is in the talent dept, he is our best option at the position.

BParcells777
10-23-2012, 03:58 PM
there is a huge fatal flaw in all of this.......The Dline's job is to keep the MLBer clean and allow him a lane to get to the RB.......the Giants DLine is not keeping Blackburn clean.......any MLBer put in that situation will fail

The real problem is at DT.....these guys are way below par in run stopping and collecting blockers........until that is fixed Butkus would be getting blocked on every run.

GameTime
10-23-2012, 03:59 PM
Chase reminds me of AP, but a just hair faster.

ouch...

slipknottin
10-23-2012, 04:00 PM
there is a huge fatal flaw in all of this.......The Dline's job is to keep the MLBer clean and allow him a lane to get to the RB.......the Giants DLine is not keeping Blackburn clean.......any MLBer put in that situation will fail

The real problem is at DT.....these guys are way below par in run stopping and collecting blockers........until that is fixed Butkus would be getting blocked on every run.

The mlb always gets blocked at the nfl level.

GMENAGAIN
10-23-2012, 04:04 PM
That's a fair assessment

Thanks. I am sort of surprised that Herzlich hasn't been able to overtake him . . . . doesn't say much about what the coaching staff thinks of Herzlich's ability at this point IMO . . . . .

slipknottin
10-23-2012, 04:06 PM
Thanks. I am sort of surprised that Herzlich hasn't been able to overtake him . . . . doesn't say much about what the coaching staff thinks of Herzlich's ability at this point IMO . . . . .

It's not surprising. Herzlich after cancer was just not that great of a player, lost a ton of athleticism. I keep wondering if that athleticism will come back with time, but i have no idea.

GameTime
10-23-2012, 04:07 PM
Thanks. I am sort of surprised that Herzlich hasn't been able to overtake him . . . . doesn't say much about what the coaching staff thinks of Herzlich's ability at this point IMO . . . . .

exactly. Also taking the calls away from Boley as well and giving that rewsponsiblitly to Chase.
I guess when you think about it on a defense that is under performing as a whole at the very least you want people on the same page and set up with the right calls. Chase gives them that and obvioulsy no one lese is up to that task. Which for a MLB is a huge part of his job. Does ****ing PFF have a rating for that??????

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 04:07 PM
Hey Slip this one is for you....lol


So, don't kid yourself. The Giants understand what they have -- and don't have -- with Blackburn quarterbacking the defense.
Right now, they obviously believe all of the intangible things outweigh any physical limitations.
Considering how much success they have enjoyed since Blackburn got up off his couch and put on the No. 93 jersey that is hard to argue with.


Are you sure he calls the defensive signals? I could have sworn it was Boley

TheEnigma
10-23-2012, 04:08 PM
Thanks. I am sort of surprised that Herzlich hasn't been able to overtake him . . . . doesn't say much about what the coaching staff thinks of Herzlich's ability at this point IMO . . . . .

Things operate for the most part when Blackburn is out there making sure the defense is lined up properly. I don't think many people would argue that Herzlich would give us better play individually but the Giants coaching staff simply doesn't want to risk what has gotten us to this point in the season. It sucks and I get jealous watching other teams with their young MLB making constant plays in the run game but it is what it is.

GMENAGAIN
10-23-2012, 04:09 PM
It's not surprising. Herzlich after cancer was just not that great of a player, lost a ton of athleticism. I keep wondering if that athleticism will come back with time, but i have no idea.

Herzlich seems like he is at least as athletic as Chase at this point and that he could hold up better against the run, but I guess that the coaches feel that they are better off with Chase in there . . . . .

Giant stuck in Texas
10-23-2012, 04:14 PM
Are you sure he calls the defensive signals? I could have sworn it was BoleyNope, I'm most certain it's Chase.

BParcells777
10-23-2012, 04:15 PM
The mlb always gets blocked at the nfl level.

that is an incredibly dense statement......the only reason Pierce got so many tackles was that he was kept clean.......watch the games.....are you blind and listenign on the radio? Do they get blocked yes.........always???? uh no......our DTs are really really bad as run stoppers....... really bad

Also on more exotic downs Williams is playing MLB and dropping deep into coverage.

fansince69
10-23-2012, 04:16 PM
Nope, I'm most certain it's Chase.

Honestly I thought Boley was doing it last year when the rookies were playing middle...but thought Chase took over when he came off the couch

BParcells777
10-23-2012, 04:20 PM
Boley was calling the plays until Chase came back........having an outside LBer calling plays is not optimal.....they are off on one side of the field all day

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 04:25 PM
Boley was calling the plays until Chase came back........having an outside LBer calling plays is not optimal.....they are off on one side of the field all day

If that's the case, it does explain why Chase is still the MLB. Pierce was not the most athletic player either, but he was cerebral and did a better than average job call the defenses. That could be all that separates Chase from Herzlich at this point in time.

Kruunch
10-23-2012, 04:27 PM
Blackburn is not a good starting NFL MLB as a whole, but he is a very likeable, hard-working guy who, in spite of his shortcomings, is able to make plays here and there.

Basically sums it up for me as well.

GameTime
10-23-2012, 04:27 PM
If that's the case, it does explain why Chase is still the MLB. Pierce was not the most athletic player either, but he was cerebral and did a better than average job call the defenses. That could be all that separates Chase from Herzlich at this point in time.

exactly right Ro.....

trying to tell people that is like talking to a rock. Thats IS why he is in. The article points that out as have other analyst over this season and last.
Back ups play like back ups.....duh....

Kruunch
10-23-2012, 04:29 PM
Chase reminds me of AP, but a just hair faster.

Chase isn't nearly the run stuffer that AP was in his prime.

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 04:32 PM
exactly right Ro.....

trying to tell people that is like talking to a rock. Thats IS why he is in. The article points that out as have other analyst over this season and last.
Back ups play like back ups.....duh....

I am THE ROCK and now I get it lol

GameTime
10-23-2012, 04:33 PM
I am THE ROCK and now I get it lol
well if you didnt know that then I get it....

see how I am sticking up for you.....

fansince69
10-23-2012, 04:33 PM
I am THE ROCK and now I get it lol
and the light goes on lol

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 04:35 PM
well if you didnt know that then I get it....

see how I am sticking up for you.....

One of the damn few lmao

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 04:40 PM
well if you didnt know that then I get it....<br>
<br>
see how I am sticking up for you.....


One of the damn few lmao

slipknottin
10-23-2012, 04:43 PM
that is an incredibly dense statement......the only reason Pierce got so many tackles was that he was kept clean.......watch the games.....are you blind and listenign on the radio? Do they get blocked yes.........always???? uh no......our DTs are really really bad as run stoppers....... really bad

Also on more exotic downs Williams is playing MLB and dropping deep into coverage.

Every single running play the MLB is accounted for and supposed to be blocked. No matter how good the DTs are.

Watch any team who runs the ball well. They always get blockers to the MLB. Watch the giants 49ers game. Willis and Bowman are blocked on every successful run play the giants had.

A MLB who can't shed simply does not play in the NFL. Or at least does not play well

GameTime
10-23-2012, 04:44 PM
One of the damn few lmao

:cool:

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 04:46 PM
Every single running play the MLB is accounted for and supposed to be blocked. No matter how good the DTs are.

Watch any team who runs the ball well. They always get blockers to the MLB. Watch the giants 49ers game. Willis and Bowman are blocked on every successful run play the giants had.



A MLB who can't shed simply does not play in the NFL. Or at least does not play well

I'm holding out for this team to run the ball well CONSISTENTLY :mad:

Kruunch
10-23-2012, 04:46 PM
:cool:

You two need to get a room :p

giantsfan420
10-23-2012, 04:47 PM
Nope, I'm most certain it's Chase.
last yr at least it was boley bc he's the only "everydown" lb we have, meaning he can play on 3rd down...Chase is a 2 down LB and taken off the field on 3rd downs, who calls the plays then?
thats how it was last year at least, I actually havent read anything definitive about whose got the helmet with the radio capabilities....so I assume its Boley again, but then again he missed time this year. I know last yr when he missed time, the Safety was given that responsibility iirc...i havent read anywhere its chase and his 3rd down limitation makes me question that he's doing it

GameTime
10-23-2012, 04:48 PM
You two need to get a room :p

now thats not funny.....

or is it....

I feel a little sick though....

fansince69
10-23-2012, 04:50 PM
You two need to get a room :p
At their age ..all they could do is play cards...lol

GameTime
10-23-2012, 04:52 PM
At their age ..all they could do is play cards...lol

hey now.....

Ro is WAY older then me and I believe you probably are too....lol

cards are cool though and thats all I think I really want to do with Ro anyway...
(nobody say strip poker either...lol)

fansince69
10-23-2012, 04:53 PM
hey now.....

Ro is WAY older then me and I believe you probably are too....lol

cards are cool though and thats all I think I really want to do with Ro anyway...
(nobody say strip poker either...lol)


actually something you said about your knee one time led me to believe we are about same....52 here lol

primetime
10-23-2012, 04:54 PM
If Chase was hurting the Giants defense in any way I would assume he would be benched. At this moment he's the best we got at the Mike position.

PBTimmons
10-23-2012, 04:55 PM
A question I might raise is:

If we were not SO poor against the run, would we be SO reliant on fluke plays from CB? We have only made 2 teams this year look one dimensional. Carolina and San Fran. Both cases seemed to be largely self inflicted by those teams, and neither of which are considered potent offenses.

The D's inability to stop the run almost bit us on Sunday. It will bite us eventually.

Honestly, if Blackburn is the worst against the run in the league - and 2nd worst overall...then a change should be made.

GameTime
10-23-2012, 04:56 PM
actually something you said about your knee one time led me to believe we are about same....52 here lol

yeah knee, ankle, back, etc. Not 50 yet. Just a beat up 47 year old.....
Still out there playing though

fansince69
10-23-2012, 04:57 PM
If Chase was hurting the Giants defense in any way I would assume he would be benched. At this moment he's the best we got at the Mike position.

Just because he is lesser of 2 evils doesn't mean he isn't hurting us....just means coaching staff feels he hurts us less than next best option

slipknottin
10-23-2012, 04:58 PM
Afaik Blackburn has the headset, and when he isn't on the field the player who comes out to replace him is told the play call.

I think Boley struggled with it, but nobody explained why exactly.

fansince69
10-23-2012, 04:59 PM
yeah knee, ankle, back, etc. Not 50 yet. Just a beat up 47 year old.....
Still out there playing though
I stopped playing softball at 47 cause i need a knee replacement...so now I live vicariously through my 18 year old son(huge giant fan)hes playing college baseball

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 05:00 PM
hey now.....

Ro is WAY older then me and I believe you probably are too....lol

cards are cool though and thats all I think I really want to do with Ro anyway...
(nobody say strip poker either...lol)


I'm being jilted before my eyes :(

GameTime
10-23-2012, 05:01 PM
I'm being jilted before my eyes :(

yep.
totally throwing you under the bus. Sorry.......

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 05:02 PM
yep.
totally throwing you under the bus. Sorry.......

Like Eli, I will just pick myself up and get back in the game. Where is my walker?

GameTime
10-23-2012, 05:02 PM
Afaik Blackburn has the headset, and when he isn't on the field the player who comes out to replace him is told the play call.

I think Boley struggled with it, but nobody explained why exactly.

simple...he just isnt as good as Chase at it......no explaination needed

GameTime
10-23-2012, 05:03 PM
Like Eli, I will just pick myself up and get back in the game. Where is my walker?

alright old man. I will throw you a bone. I'll push you around the stadium at the next game....

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 05:04 PM
alright old man. I will throw you a bone. I'll push you around the stadium at the next game....

Now that's ALL-IN!

fansince69
10-23-2012, 05:05 PM
Now that's ALL-IN!

throw you a bone and all in ...same post after someone else told you guys to get a room?you 2 are scaring me

GameTime
10-23-2012, 05:07 PM
I stopped playing softball at 47 cause i need a knee replacement...so now I live vicariously through my 18 year old son(huge giant fan)hes playing college baseball

a new knee uhh. Goo dluck with that when you get it done. I know a few people who have had that with great success.
Thats a regret I have is not going to college to play ball. Played alot of baseball even in leagues after HS. I was pretty darn good too. But I wanted to party more then I wanted to play.
Good luck to him.

GameTime
10-23-2012, 05:08 PM
throw you a bone and all in ...same post after someone else told you guys to get a room?you 2 are scaring me

Ro...you are killing me Bro. Now we have "rep".....
GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not that there's anything wrong with that...(Jerry Seinfeld)

fansince69
10-23-2012, 05:09 PM
a new knee uhh. Goo dluck with that when you get it done. I know a few people who have had that with great success.
Thats a regret I have is not going to college to play ball. Played alot of baseball even in leagues after HS. I was pretty darn good too. But I wanted to party more then I wanted to play.
Good luck to him.

I played at the same college 30 years ago...but alas partying was more fun too...luckily hes got his head on straight...starting as a freshman... cf and catcher

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 05:09 PM
throw you a bone and all in ...same post after someone else told you guys to get a room?you 2 are scaring me

Just meet us at J20 lol

fansince69
10-23-2012, 05:10 PM
Ro...you are killing me Bro. Now we have "rep".....
GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not that there's anything wrong with that...(Jerry Seinfeld)

whats with tv/movie quotes today?

GameTime
10-23-2012, 05:10 PM
Just meet us at J20 lol

I aint parking there anymore. Hear there's some weirdos hanging out now....lol

blueNorange
10-23-2012, 05:10 PM
-14.7 is disgraceful

GameTime
10-23-2012, 05:11 PM
whats with tv/movie quotes today?
I am big on that stuff.....kind of.....

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 05:11 PM
Ro...you are killing me Bro. Now we have "rep".....
GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not that there's anything wrong with that...(Jerry Seinfeld)

I was going to suggest you ride around the parking lot in my lap but that might have been misunderstood :p

GameTime
10-23-2012, 05:11 PM
-14.7 is disgraceful
apparently everything else he brings to the game is well above average...

GameTime
10-23-2012, 05:12 PM
I was going to suggest you ride around the parking lot in my lap but that might have been misunderstood :p

now thats funny....LOL

fansince69
10-23-2012, 05:13 PM
I was going to suggest you ride around the parking lot in my lap but that might have been misunderstood :p
Talk about the first thing that pops up?

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 05:14 PM
I aint parking there anymore. Hear there's some weirdos hanging out now....lol

I did think those ladies in the short skirts and halter tops were getting far too much attention and cutting into our bean bag tossing

fansince69
10-23-2012, 05:14 PM
apparently everything else he brings to the game is well above average...
Blackburn or Ro?

GameTime
10-23-2012, 05:14 PM
Gentlemen....had fun today. Time to leave work since they dont really like to pay me to bull**** on the computer "all" day.
back on later......adios for now....

GameTime
10-23-2012, 05:15 PM
Blackburn or Ro?
LMMFAO....

nice...
I guess I will find out at parking lot J20....lol

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 05:17 PM
Gentlemen....had fun today. Time to leave work since they dont really like to pay me to bull**** on the computer "all" day.
back on later......adios for now....

Drive safely

jomo
10-23-2012, 05:24 PM
That was a pretty thin article, kinda like something that would be interesting to someone who is not a fan of the team and has not been following at all. For the rabid faithful on these boards and elsewhere it was somewhere below a puff piece. Who are these guys/women writing this stuff. I think my wife, only a casual fan has more insight on our ILB situation than the writer.

blueNorange
10-23-2012, 05:30 PM
pff is accurate with it's grading

dillyyo1972
10-23-2012, 05:40 PM
For all of his physical limitations at MLB, I have no idea how someone can claim that Chase is a problem with our D. For as limited as the guy is he has had some game changing and saving plays at critical times in his recent career. I'm not saying he can't be replaced, but a guy like this is a guy you always want to have on the team because he just knows how to play football and make plays when needed.

JesseJames
10-23-2012, 06:05 PM
so it sounds like TC goes with the guy who is least likely to make a mistake over one who is more talented...

GameTime
10-23-2012, 06:13 PM
so it sounds like TC goes with the guy who is least likely to make a mistake over one who is more talented...
no it goes to the MLB that can actually run the defense.....and know what the heck is going on...

Giant stuck in Texas
10-23-2012, 06:24 PM
Chase isn't nearly the run stuffer that AP was in his prime. Remember this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUnnW3DkaCk

Ny_STAT1989
10-23-2012, 06:29 PM
I just think the Giants are being to loyal to CB. Their is no question he makes game changing plays and knows the D but I would rather them give Herzlich a chance to see if he really is our future or not. I really think the Giants are to loyal and keep players in the line up who are past there prime just look at David Deihl their is no way he should have been a starter on the past three years. The only reason the kept him in was because he knew the line calls.

moosedrool
10-23-2012, 08:04 PM
Herzlich last year when he started against Philly had 3 stops (tackle considered an offensive failure). But he was awful in pass coverage. At 5-2 and with an offense that can score, I doubt Blackburn gets replaced. But I do miss Harry Carson. Carson got blocked on every play too and threw them away like rag dolls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv97I7CRvLs

TextureDj
10-23-2012, 08:25 PM
We can argue.....again..... whether or not Chase is a good fit or should be playing etc. What we can not argue is if Chase is THE weak link in our D, that is simply ridiculous.

If nothing else there is that our D starfted to play lights out last year at the same time he came aboard. I'm not one of these who thinks he is the reason we got it together, but his coming off the couch didn't prevent us from dominating as the article suggests he is doing now.

BParcells777
10-23-2012, 10:16 PM
Well Chase Blackburn is MLBer for the World Champs and now elevated to the top of the power rankings...he is as much the QB of the D as Eli is the Offense.......why he is not wearing a Captains badge is unfathomable

If he was really THAT bad he would be sitting......I'm usually a big proponent of the bench players but Herzlich is not ready to play MLBer for us..He is also prone to injury

Blackburn has made some spectacular plays for us this year and last- the INT inthe SB probably beig the most spectacular...........you don't mess with success......the Skins game ended because Chase stripped the ball
He is an impact player
All this Blackburn doubting is RIDICULOUS

brad
10-23-2012, 10:24 PM
CB is, at this point, the best option for the Giants at MLB... he isn't a dominant MLB, but he is good enough. Like a lot of people here, I would love to have see the Giants grab the next great MLB, but for now he brings some things to the Giants that are difficult to replace, primarily his football smarts... although the big turnovers he seems to create fairly regularly are a nice bonus.

GameTime
10-23-2012, 10:49 PM
just watched the game agais and while Chase got blown off on several plays he also made several as well. One thing I did notice is that ALL of the Giants LBs suck on coverage and Rolle sucks on coverage when he is close to the line. Chase wasnt on the field when Moss got his screen pass through 8 Giants players. Oh and BTW.....two plays before Chase caused Moss to fumble the game away he made Morris fumble too but Morris picked it back up. So two HUGE forced fumble with in two plays at a criticle time in the game. Yeah he sucks...

Say what you want and I dont care about PFF stuff. Chase is not playing any worse than any other Giants LB AND they are suppose to be the starters!!!

JJC7301
10-23-2012, 11:12 PM
Problem with the D is not Chase. It's a front line that hasn't gotten consistent pressure on the QB this year, as well as our best CB (Webster) having his worst year in a long time, and yet another year of injuries in the secondary, but they're getting healthier.

Hopefully Herz will eventually be an upgrade (I'm not sold on that until Herz can actually prove it). If not, I will at least say this -- Chase is MUCH better than Goff ever was so that's an improvement right there.

fansince69
10-23-2012, 11:32 PM
Problem with the D is not Chase. It's a front line that hasn't gotten consistent pressure on the QB this year, as well as our best CB (Webster) having his worst year in a long time, and yet another year of injuries in the secondary, but they're getting healthier.

Hopefully Herz will eventually be an upgrade (I'm not sold on that until Herz can actually prove it). If not, I will at least say this -- Chase is MUCH better than Goff ever was so that's an improvement right there.


this is not acurate...Goff was just coming into his own when he blew out his knee...he was much better even at his young age at point of attack than chase....if he had a downfall it was in pass coverage which is learned ...but he came off the field in passing downs...but overall goff by now would have chase sitting on his couch again...the reason he is gone is because of knee