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Rudyy
10-23-2012, 05:18 PM
@art_stapleton: Cruz tells @WFAN660 - as if there were any doubt & there isn't - says he wants to retire a Giant. "Knock it out, put it behind us" #NYG

giantsfan420
10-23-2012, 05:20 PM
nicks/cruz/bennett/bradshaw will retire giants-my bold prediction

FrankAE
10-23-2012, 05:25 PM
If we keep Nicks, Cruz and Bennett for the remainder of their careers this team will be champs at least two more times. Being Wilson pans out to be the running back we all expect.

BlueSanta
10-23-2012, 05:31 PM
Cruz is a smart guy. Aside from knowing how to play, he knows how to market himself. That Salsa Dance is a virtual trademark. NYC loves him and there is no better place to be loved than NYC. The lifetimes worth of endorsements and the love this city will shower him with is unparalleled anywhere in the world.

Ask guys like LT, Namath, and Strahan just to name a few. I could list a lot more if I included baseball guys.

Cool Papa B.
10-23-2012, 05:33 PM
nicks/cruz/bennett/bradshaw will retire giants-my bold prediction

Nicks, Cruz, JPP, Joseph.....IMO.

keyofgmen
10-23-2012, 05:37 PM
Oh dear heavens....talking retirement already? Come On Man! I'm sure S Smith was in the same situation in his 2nd year. This is a year by year league for WR.

ebick
10-23-2012, 05:38 PM
These statements are so cliche. If we don't sign him and he instead signs with the xyz's, then he will want to retire an xyz.

Can you imagine a guy being on one team and saying he wants to retire on some other team?

DLT
10-23-2012, 05:39 PM
I have a question and IDK where to ask it so Ill just try here. Ill delete my question after I get some responses. How come this forum only goes back 4 pages? Can you see things from a few days ago? Is there an archive or anything on here? Or is it just gone after a day or so?

gianta
10-23-2012, 05:44 PM
@art_stapleton: Cruz tells @WFAN660 - as if there were any doubt & there isn't - says he wants to retire a Giant. "Knock it out, put it behind us" #NYG

I just hope the Giants don't mess with him and pay him what he deserves as a premier receiver in the NFL.I could not bear the sight of him in a different uniform.

Cloud57
10-23-2012, 06:04 PM
I just hope the Giants don't mess with him and pay him what he deserves as a premier receiver in the NFL.I could not bear the sight of him in a different uniform.

yeah it would really suck to hear a another team shout cruuuuuuz

giant-4-life
10-23-2012, 06:23 PM
I say NY Giants will sign him. I'm sure they have a rep dealing with Cruz's agent while the season moves on. I hardly think they'll waste an opportunity. that's not like us. I have faith in Reese.

PRGiant
10-23-2012, 06:37 PM
I have a question and IDK where to ask it so Ill just try here. Ill delete my question after I get some responses. How come this forum only goes back 4 pages? Can you see things from a few days ago? Is there an archive or anything on here? Or is it just gone after a day or so?

There's an option in your account to show older threads...

Rudyy
10-23-2012, 06:53 PM
I have a question and IDK where to ask it so Ill just try here. Ill delete my question after I get some responses. How come this forum only goes back 4 pages? Can you see things from a few days ago? Is there an archive or anything on here? Or is it just gone after a day or so?

http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad318/TahlyaA/gmb.png

nycisgreat
10-23-2012, 06:58 PM
@art_stapleton: Cruz tells @WFAN660 - as if there were any doubt & there isn't - says he wants to retire a Giant. "Knock it out, put it behind us" #NYG

Eli will come to bat for this guy. Nick is all round better talent, but Cruz is a game breaker. He will definitely retire a Giant.

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 07:02 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/gia...term-deal-soon (http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/giants/2012/10/cruz-hoping-for-long-term-deal-soon)

Excerpt: "Victor Cruz wants to spend his entire career with the New York Giants, and he hopes the team helps him make that happen soon.

Though Cruz is still almost a year-and-a-half away from being an unrestricted free agent, he again expressed hope on Tuesday that he and the Giants will agree on a long-term contract long before he hits the open market in March, 2014. In fact, in his weekly WFAN appearance, he said he hopes it happens much sooner than that.

Like maybe sometime in the next few weeks.

“We would like to get it done before the season's (over)," Cruz said. “We don’t want to drag it along and (have it) become something that blocks the team in the offseason, and something that’s in the media every day. We don’t want it to get like that. We want to just knock it out halfway through the season, or during the season at the very least, and put it behind.”

Whether they can depends, as always, on the price. Cruz is making $540,000 this season. And considering he set a franchise record with 1,536 receiving yards last season and this year he’s third in the NFL in catches (50), fourth in yards (627) and first in receiving touchdowns (seven) it’s a good bet he’ll get the “first-round” tender when he becomes a restricted free agent in March. That tender was worth $2.7 million this year." Read more...

jomo
10-23-2012, 07:05 PM
These statements are so cliche. If we don't sign him and he instead signs with the xyz's, then he will want to retire an xyz.

Can you imagine a guy being on one team and saying he wants to retire on some other team?It's only a cliche when you are playing in Kansas City, Cleveland or Philadelphia! lol

FBomb
10-23-2012, 07:06 PM
......and I almost NEVER say this.......PAY THE MAN!!!

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 07:07 PM
......and I almost NEVER say this.......PAY THE MAN!!!


LOL That didn't take long

FBomb
10-23-2012, 07:09 PM
Well SOMEBODY had to do it!!:o

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 07:10 PM
Well SOMEBODY had to do it!!:o

You won't be lonely, that's for sure. He is versatile and durable and his numbers through 25 games are very impressive

Rudyy
10-23-2012, 07:15 PM
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/2/2/518bd4b8-9b5d-4f78-bf07-949972f34829.jpg

jomo
10-23-2012, 07:21 PM
......and I almost NEVER say this.......PAY THE MAN!!!With you FB.

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 07:25 PM
With you FB.

This is serious

NYGabriel
10-23-2012, 07:35 PM
Would they pay Cruz before Nicks and JPP?

jomo
10-23-2012, 07:39 PM
This is seriousHard for me to get that out RF.

Rudyy
10-23-2012, 07:40 PM
Wait,
did someone merge another thread to this one?

CowboysSuck
10-23-2012, 07:49 PM
I believe Cruz is a premier talent. However, we have seen a trend with Eli where he makes WR's look much better than most teams can.

So I question, IF Cruz left, is there any chance he would fall off--see Kevin Boss, Steve Smith, Plaxico Burress

Rudyy
10-23-2012, 08:00 PM
I believe Cruz is a premier talent. However, we have seen a trend with Eli where he makes WR's look much better than most teams can.

So I question, IF Cruz left, is there any chance he would fall off--see Kevin Boss, Steve Smith, Plaxico Burress STAHP

CRUZ WILL NOT LEAVE

JUST DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT. :(

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 08:02 PM
Hard for me to get that out RF.

I'm still trying to recover from the shock :cool:

fansince69
10-23-2012, 08:02 PM
I believe Cruz is a premier talent. However, we have seen a trend with Eli where he makes WR's look much better than most teams can.

So I question, IF Cruz left, is there any chance he would fall off--see Kevin Boss, Steve Smith, Plaxico Burress

Cruz has way more talent than both boss and smith especially after injuries...he is younger and has a much better attitude and just overall maturity than plax ever had

although he may not put up the same numbers with a lessor QB ....i seriously doubt that he has the fallout that those 3 had

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 08:03 PM
I believe Cruz is a premier talent. However, we have seen a trend with Eli where he makes WR's look much better than most teams can.

So I question, IF Cruz left, is there any chance he would fall off--see Kevin Boss, Steve Smith, Plaxico Burress

Really?

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 08:03 PM
Wait,
did someone merge another thread to this one?

Yes

Rudyy
10-23-2012, 08:05 PM
YesOk cool. I'm not going crazy.

FBomb
10-23-2012, 08:09 PM
I thought it was the bud.:cool:

Cruz has the IT factor. He's clearly not just another WR that Eli is making look good. If anything, HE has helped make Eli look good. The kid has made some spectacular catches in tight coverages.

He's the real deal.

EnragedYouth85
10-23-2012, 08:12 PM
Like FBomb said, Cruz and Eli compliment each other so well. I am just assuming this but I'm sure both of them are always in the film room working together, talking about what they see and what they'd do with this coverage, etc. This is why they are always on the same page and get so many big plays. They are both very smart, very hard working and down to earth players! Glad to have them both on my team!

jomo
10-23-2012, 08:36 PM
I'm still trying to recover from the shock :cool:Here I am going to say it, TO HELL WITH CAP CONSIDERATIONS. Don't think less of me. lol

Eli TO Shockey
10-23-2012, 08:42 PM
god forbid Cruz hits the FA market. He will be offered top 5 WR money. Much cheaper to work out a deal before the season ends.

PAY THE MAN!

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 08:55 PM
Here I am going to say it, TO HELL WITH CAP CONSIDERATIONS. Don't think less of me. lol

Man, Hell just froze over :cool:

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 08:55 PM
god forbid Cruz hits the FA market. He will be offered top 5 WR money. Much cheaper to work out a deal before the season ends.

PAY THE MAN!

He's an RFA next season

RoanokeFan
10-23-2012, 09:00 PM
In the National Football League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League), a restricted free agent (RFA) is one with three accrued seasons of service, who has received a "qualifying" offer (a salary level predetermined by the Collective Bargaining Agreement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Bargaining_Agreement) between the league and its players) from his current club. He can negotiate with any club through a certain date. If the restricted free agent accepts an offer sheet from a new club, his old club has "right of first refusal," a seven-day period in which it may match the offer and retain him, or choose not to match the offer, in which case it may receive one or more draft picks for the upcoming draft from the player's new club. If an offer sheet is not executed, the player's rights revert to his old club the day after negotiations must end.[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Restricted_free_agent&action=edit&section=2)]Tender amountsIn 2007, a second-round tender offer was added, and after the 2011 lockout, the top tender was removed. The three tender amounts for 2012 are as follows:[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restricted_free_agent#cite_note-0)

Tender amountCompensation required

$2.742 million
First-round


$1.927 million
Second-round


$1.26 million
Determined by RFA's original draft status (see below)


Each player that signs a tender receives the one-year salary that corresponds to the tender level. Teams which choose not to match an offer on a player with a low tender receive a draft pick corresponding to the round in which the player was originally drafted (except that the highest pick that can be surrendered for such a tender is a second-round pick). For example, a player who was originally drafted in the sixth round of the NFL Draft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Draft) would force the team signing him to give his former team a sixth-round pick in the upcoming draft as compensation for his service. No compensation is required for an undrafted player on the lowest tender amount, so teams with valued undrafted RFAs are taking a notable risk by offering such tenders.[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Restricted_free_agent&action=edit&section=3)]Examples of possible outcomesIn addition to the following outcomes, if a player does not receive an offer sheet from his original team, he becomes an unrestricted free agent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrestricted_free_agent). If a player signs the offer sheet from his original team, he remains with that team.

Team declining to match offer sheet. Carolina Panthers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolina_Panthers) cornerback (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerback) Ricky Manning, Jr. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Manning,_Jr.) was a restricted free agent in the 2006 offseason. Based on the tender placed on Manning by the Panthers, the team would receive a third-round pick in the NFL Draft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Draft) if Manning signed with another team. On April 21, the Chicago Bears (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Bears) signed Manning to an offer sheet - a five-year contract worth up to $23 million. Although the Panthers had a full week to decide if they wanted to match the offer sheet, they announced on April 24 that they would not match. At this time, Manning became a member of the Bears and the Panthers received a third-round draft choice in the 2006 draft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_NFL_Draft) from Chicago.



Team matching offer sheet. Arizona Cardinals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Cardinals) offensive guard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_guard) Reggie Wells (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggie_Wells) was a restricted free agent in the 2006 offseason. On March 17, the Buffalo Bills (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Bills) signed him to an offer sheet - a five-year deal worth approximately $18 million. Four days later on March 21, the Cardinals matched the Bills' offer sheet for Wells, and he reverted to the Cardinals.



Team consummating a trade. The Miami Dolphins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_Dolphins) offered wide receiver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_receiver) Wes Welker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wes_Welker) a second-round tender in 2007. Although it was widely rumored that the New England Patriots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Patriots) would offer Welker a seven-year, $35 million deal, the Patriots ultimately traded their second- and seventh-round draft picks to the Dolphins for Welker, signing Welker to a five-year, $18 million contract.

Rudyy
10-23-2012, 09:02 PM
In the National Football League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League), a restricted free agent (RFA) is one with three accrued seasons of service, who has received a "qualifying" offer (a salary level predetermined by the Collective Bargaining Agreement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Bargaining_Agreement) between the league and its players) from his current club. He can negotiate with any club through a certain date. If the restricted free agent accepts an offer sheet from a new club, his old club has "right of first refusal," a seven-day period in which it may match the offer and retain him, or choose not to match the offer, in which case it may receive one or more draft picks for the upcoming draft from the player's new club. If an offer sheet is not executed, the player's rights revert to his old club the day after negotiations must end.[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Restricted_free_agent&action=edit§ion=2)]Tender amountsIn 2007, a second-round tender offer was added, and after the 2011 lockout, the top tender was removed. The three tender amounts for 2012 are as follows:[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restricted_free_agent#cite_note-0)

Tender amountCompensation required

$2.742 million
First-round


$1.927 million
Second-round


$1.26 million
Determined by RFA's original draft status (see below)


Each player that signs a tender receives the one-year salary that corresponds to the tender level. Teams which choose not to match an offer on a player with a low tender receive a draft pick corresponding to the round in which the player was originally drafted (except that the highest pick that can be surrendered for such a tender is a second-round pick). For example, a player who was originally drafted in the sixth round of the NFL Draft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Draft) would force the team signing him to give his former team a sixth-round pick in the upcoming draft as compensation for his service. No compensation is required for an undrafted player on the lowest tender amount, so teams with valued undrafted RFAs are taking a notable risk by offering such tenders.[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Restricted_free_agent&action=edit§ion=3)]Examples of possible outcomesIn addition to the following outcomes, if a player does not receive an offer sheet from his original team, he becomes an unrestricted free agent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrestricted_free_agent). If a player signs the offer sheet from his original team, he remains with that team.

Team declining to match offer sheet. Carolina Panthers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolina_Panthers) cornerback (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerback) Ricky Manning, Jr. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Manning,_Jr.) was a restricted free agent in the 2006 offseason. Based on the tender placed on Manning by the Panthers, the team would receive a third-round pick in the NFL Draft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Draft) if Manning signed with another team. On April 21, the Chicago Bears (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Bears) signed Manning to an offer sheet - a five-year contract worth up to $23 million. Although the Panthers had a full week to decide if they wanted to match the offer sheet, they announced on April 24 that they would not match. At this time, Manning became a member of the Bears and the Panthers received a third-round draft choice in the 2006 draft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_NFL_Draft) from Chicago.



Team matching offer sheet. Arizona Cardinals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Cardinals) offensive guard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_guard) Reggie Wells (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggie_Wells) was a restricted free agent in the 2006 offseason. On March 17, the Buffalo Bills (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Bills) signed him to an offer sheet - a five-year deal worth approximately $18 million. Four days later on March 21, the Cardinals matched the Bills' offer sheet for Wells, and he reverted to the Cardinals.



Team consummating a trade. The Miami Dolphins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_Dolphins) offered wide receiver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_receiver) Wes Welker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wes_Welker) a second-round tender in 2007. Although it was widely rumored that the New England Patriots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Patriots) would offer Welker a seven-year, $35 million deal, the Patriots ultimately traded their second- and seventh-round draft picks to the Dolphins for Welker, signing Welker to a five-year, $18 million contract.


WELL ALL OF THIS WON'T MATTER BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO PAY HIM! :D
































hopefully..

TheAnalyst
10-23-2012, 09:04 PM
Could you imagine if the Redskins stole him? Him and RG3... Wow.

Ruttiger711
10-23-2012, 09:20 PM
Could you imagine if the Redskins stole him? Him and RG3... Wow.

I could probably stomach that more than another Philly Phiasco like what happened with SS.

No i couldnt - PAY THE MAN!

But rumor had it that Smith passed on a 35 mil deal (7yr i think?) - you think Cruz will get 6-7 mil/yr? 7 years? 7yrs/$50 mil?

2012 top salaries - if you click on the player you can see their contract details:

http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/wide-receiver/

BigBlue1971
10-23-2012, 09:27 PM
......and I almost NEVER say this.......PAY THE MAN!!!

i wholeheartedly agree with this! get it done like Cruz says "sooner than later".

Rudyy
10-23-2012, 09:52 PM
Could you imagine if the Redskins stole him? Him and RG3... Wow.http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/whydowe_fall/GIFS/orig-10334211jpg.gif

JJC7301
10-23-2012, 10:08 PM
nicks/cruz/bennett/bradshaw will retire giants-my bold prediction
I believe that Cruz would be the only one of those 4 to retire as a Giant.

Cruz is the one that they'll spend the money on, thereby letting Nicks walk because they won't be able to afford him. Unfortunate, but probably reality.

Bennett is having a really good year and I really like him a lot, but we don't spend money on TE's and he'll be able to get what he's really worth next year with another team, which is unfortunate.

AB's my favorite Giant, but the Giants will release him eventually before he's ready to retire and he'll wind up on another team for 1 - 3 years.

Rudyy
10-23-2012, 10:10 PM
I believe that Cruz would be the only one of those 4 to retire as a Giant.

Cruz is the one that they'll spend the money on, thereby letting Nicks walk because they won't be able to afford him. Unfortunate, but probably reality.

Bennett is having a really good year and I really like him a lot, but we don't spend money on TE's and he'll be able to get what he's really worth next year with another team, which is unfortunate.

AB's my favorite Giant, but the Giants will release him eventually before he's ready to retire and he'll wind up on another team for 1 - 3 years.I honestly think they're going to let Osi and Tuck go, I just do.

SweetZombieJesus
10-23-2012, 10:11 PM
Osi's already gone

Rudyy
10-23-2012, 10:13 PM
Osi's already gone He will physically be gone.

JJC7301
10-23-2012, 10:24 PM
I honestly think they're going to let Osi and Tuck go, I just do.
Rudyy, my man, I actually agree with you. Quite frankly, I'm sick of Tuck being injured, not being a force this season and for most of last season. I don't think that he's been very good for the past few years, except for last year's playoff run. Same can be said for Osi.

I'd like to see Kiwi moved up to the d-line next year, but they'll need at least 1 more DE to keep the rotation going. Hopefully that can be Ojomo, but if not, they'll have to draft someone who would need to be groomed.

JJC7301
10-23-2012, 10:25 PM
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/whydowe_fall/GIFS/orig-10334211jpg.gif

HAAAAAAAA!!!!!

Giants5699
10-23-2012, 10:28 PM
Osi, Tuck, Thomas, Diehl, Bradshaw, and Canty are all on the way out IMO

Nicks, JPP, Cruz, Bennett will get extensions.

Rudyy
10-23-2012, 10:30 PM
Rudyy, my girl, I actually agree with you. Quite frankly, I'm sick of Tuck being injured, not being a force this season and for most of last season. I don't think that he's been very good for the past few years, except for last year's playoff run. Same can be said for Osi.

I'd like to see Kiwi moved up to the d-line next year, but they'll need at least 1 more DE to keep the rotation going. Hopefully that can be Ojomo, but if not, they'll have to draft someone who would need to be groomed.

Haha, had to edit.

Anyways, yeah..their time is definitely up, and it's showing. I hate to say it but it's true. Osi is only a good pass rusher when he wants to be one, actually he's more of a speed rusher. He gets beat CONSTANTLY it drives me insane. Then he's on the sideline laughing like everything is all good. Tuck is one of my favorite Giants, but his time is up at well. He looks out of shape/tired. I hope we get Ojomo going with Kuhn and others. Maybe drafting fresh legs would do wonders for this d-line.

Rudyy
10-23-2012, 10:30 PM
Osi, Tuck, Thomas, Diehl, Bradshaw, and Canty are all on the way out IMO

Nicks, JPP, Cruz, Bennett will get extensions.Bradshaw..?

gumby74
10-23-2012, 10:38 PM
No more than 7 million a year imo. If both Cruz and Nicks get resigned, say bye bye to Joseph, KP, Tuck, Webster, and Osi. I'll be very surprised if both Nicks and Cruz get paid though. And if we sign JPP to a huge contract in addition to Nicks and Cruz, you know what team we're going to resemble? Peyton Manning's Colts. For better or worse.

Rudyy
10-23-2012, 10:40 PM
No more than 7 million a year imo. If both Cruz and Nicks get resigned, say bye bye to Joseph, KP, Tuck, Webster, and Osi. I'll be very surprised if both Nicks and Cruz get paid though.I seriously think Osi and Tuck will be gone. I'm not sure about anyone else. Possibly Webster. 3 of these guys simply do not have it in them anymore.

Buddy333
10-23-2012, 10:41 PM
I think Webster takes a serious pay cut or gets cut. It's just business. Osi will be gone. How much Maloney does that save them?

gumby74
10-23-2012, 10:45 PM
No more than 7 million a year imo. If both Cruz and Nicks get resigned, say bye bye to Joseph, KP, Tuck, Webster, and Osi. I'll be very surprised if both Nicks and Cruz get paid though. And if we sign JPP to a huge contract in addition to Nicks and Cruz, you know what team we're going to resemble? Peyton Manning's Colts. For better or worse.


I seriously think Osi and Tuck will be gone. I'm not sure about anyone else. Possibly Webster. 3 of these guys simply do not have it in them anymore.

There isn't enough money to resign anyone else to be honest. Webster is making 8 million a year. If the Giants feel that Prince and Hosely can step in and do a half decent job, I'm guessing they'll have no qualms cutting him loose. Cofield got a 8 million dollar contract. Joseph would probably command the same. He's not coming back either. Gibril Wilson got 5 million. KP is much better than he is. Our roster in the next couple years is going to look really really different.

Rudyy
10-23-2012, 10:46 PM
There isn't enough money to resign anyone else to be honest. Webster is making 8 million a year. If the Giants feel that Prince and Hosely can step in and do a half decent job, I'm guessing they'll have no qualms cutting him loose. Cofield got a 8 million dollar contract. Joseph would probably command the same. He's not coming back either. Gibril Wilson got 5 million. KP is much better than he is. Our roster in the next couple years is going to look really really different.I don't see KP leaving, he's too valuable. Not sure on Joseph..

Rudyy
10-23-2012, 10:47 PM
I think Webster takes a serious pay cut or gets cut. It's just business. Osi will be gone. How much Maloney does that save them?I agree, not sure how much money they will have.

Buddy333
10-23-2012, 10:47 PM
Isn't Joseph wrapped up for a couple years? Of course they will have issues with JPP too.

dnotch121
10-23-2012, 11:48 PM
PAY THE MAN!!!

Captain Chaos
10-24-2012, 04:54 AM
He is becoming one of the faces of the Giants, they will pay the man. The question is when, they will have to pay Nicks if they want to keep him...

B-Red22
10-24-2012, 05:47 AM
......and I almost NEVER say this.......PAY THE MAN!!!

I agree, I never want to just hand out money but we need to wrap him up, he has already proved that he is not a one year wonder

SweetZombieJesus
10-24-2012, 06:53 AM
I seriously think Osi and Tuck will be gone. I'm not sure about anyone else. Possibly Webster. 3 of these guys simply do not have it in them anymore.

Osi is ALREADY gone. He's itching for the free agent payday and his contract is up this year. There is ZERO chance he will be in blue next year.

Tuck may be in decline but since the pass rushing DEs are the heart of this team I don't think we'll show him the door too soon, need to wind him down and ramp up replacements. Can't have only JPP alone, that ruins the winning formula. And as for the DT problem, maybe they can get Canty back at reduced price. They may have overpaid but we've seen this season how important DT is for the DEs to look good.

And Kiwi is as old as Osi and Tuck are, he's not going to be some magical savior going back to DE.

Redeyejedi
10-24-2012, 07:14 AM
The problem is by extending Cruz now u open up a can of worms. How can u extend Cruz when Hakeem Nicks came in earlier. Then soon as u extend him JPP who is from the same season gets unhappy . Juggling these young players contracts while trying to keep as many as the vets around to give Eli the best chance for his last 3-4 seasons is going to be difficult

Redeyejedi
10-24-2012, 07:17 AM
Osi is ALREADY gone. He's itching for the free agent payday and his contract is up this year. There is ZERO chance he will be in blue next year.

Tuck may be in decline but since the pass rushing DEs are the heart of this team I don't think we'll show him the door too soon, need to wind him down and ramp up replacements. Can't have only JPP alone, that ruins the winning formula. And as for the DT problem, maybe they can get Canty back at reduced price. They may have overpaid but we've seen this season how important DT is for the DEs to look good.

And Kiwi is as old as Osi and Tuck are, he's not going to be some magical savior going back to DE.Im convinced the Giants will take a Defensive end in the 1st round. Im actually surprised they didnt bring in 1 last year. The Names to watch are Damontre Moore, Dion Jordan,Cornelius Carradine and Ezeikel Ansah. Very strong group of defensive ends in this class Giants will be able to get a good 1 no matter where they pick in the 1st round

Marvelousmik
10-24-2012, 07:29 AM
Eli will come to bat for this guy. Nick is all round better talent, but Cruz is a game breaker. He will definitely retire a Giant.

lol what is with the nicks hype?

Rudyy
10-24-2012, 07:35 AM
lol what is with the nicks hype?He's a great player? We all know you like Cruz lol but we cannot lose Nicks.

Marvelousmik
10-24-2012, 07:36 AM
I believe Cruz is a premier talent. However, we have seen a trend with Eli where he makes WR's look much better than most teams can.

So I question, IF Cruz left, is there any chance he would fall off--see Kevin Boss, Steve Smith, Plaxico Burress

i think he would unless he played for the packers broncos, saints, or pats. great qbs in great systems make receivers play better. The hype that the packers had so much talent at WR used to kill me because i knew they were mostly products of a great QB. Cruz is a top 5 receiver. Even though his numbers would probably drop a little, he will still make big plays.

Marvelousmik
10-24-2012, 07:40 AM
He's a great player? We all know you like Cruz lol but we cannot lose Nicks.

i know hes a great player but you know i have to intervene when people say hes better than cruz lol. Also, losing nicks at the end of the year wont really hurt this offense. (as long as its not in the middle of the season.) the next man will step up and average 1000+ yards per season like every #1 eli throws to. when we got nicks we didnt miss plax and when we got cruz we didnt miss smith.

RoanokeFan
10-24-2012, 07:51 AM
Bradshaw..?

If Brown and Wilson can make some plays this season, I wouldn't be surprised

gumby74
10-24-2012, 08:23 AM
Nicks > Cruz when healthy. IMO, the way to tell how much a WR is worth is this. Can they make a bad QB look good? Nicks can, Fitz can, Calvin can. Cruz? Not so much. He doesn't quite have that physicality that all the top WRs have. But then again, Nicks has problems staying healthy also which is why I'd like to resign Cruz - but not at top WR money.

Ruttiger711
10-24-2012, 08:39 AM
i know hes a great player but you know i have to intervene when people say hes better than cruz lol. Also, losing nicks at the end of the year wont really hurt this offense. (as long as its not in the middle of the season.) the next man will step up and average 1000+ yards per season like every #1 eli throws to. when we got nicks we didnt miss plax and when we got cruz we didnt miss smith.

Nicks is better than Cruz at the #1 position

#1's just don't fall into your hands as easy as you make it sound.

Rudyy
10-24-2012, 09:22 AM
If Brown and Wilson can make some plays this season, I wouldn't be surprisedProblem is, nobody knows when Wilson will start.

Marvelousmik
10-24-2012, 10:03 AM
Nicks > Cruz when healthy. IMO, the way to tell how much a WR is worth is this. Can they make a bad QB look good? Nicks can, Fitz can, Calvin can. Cruz? Not so much. He doesn't quite have that physicality that all the top WRs have. But then again, Nicks has problems staying healthy also which is why I'd like to resign Cruz - but not at top WR money.

This doesnt make sense to me. Remember the circus catch during the seahawks game last year?Or the touchdown in the endzone where he caught a jump ball on namdi and the safety vs the eagles last year? how many times has cruz taken a simple short pass and turned it into a home run play? Aren't those the things that make QB's look good?

I feel as though its the other way around with nicks. That back shoulder throw to nicks is a pass where nicks doesnt need to beat his man to get the ball. Eli puts it where only he can catch it. If anything, it is Eli who makes nicks look good more often than he makes cruz look good. What you said about the 2 are complete opposites

drewz
10-24-2012, 10:17 AM
Osi, Tuck, Thomas, Diehl, Bradshaw, and Canty are all on the way out IMO

Nicks, JPP, Cruz, Bennett will get extensions.

You are insane if you think Tuck, Bradshaw and Canty are gone..

RoanokeFan
10-24-2012, 10:22 AM
Im convinced the Giants will take a Defensive end in the 1st round. Im actually surprised they didnt bring in 1 last year. The Names to watch are Damontre Moore, Dion Jordan,Cornelius Carradine and Ezeikel Ansah. Very strong group of defensive ends in this class Giants will be able to get a good 1 no matter where they pick in the 1st round That will be 32nd

DLT
10-24-2012, 10:51 AM
been out of town so just rechecking this thread. Thanks to the guys who helped me out about how the board & threads work

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 10:51 AM
This doesnt make sense to me. Remember the circus catch during the seahawks game last year?Or the touchdown in the endzone where he caught a jump ball on namdi and the safety vs the eagles last year? how many times has cruz taken a simple short pass and turned it into a home run play? Aren't those the things that make QB's look good?

I feel as though its the other way around with nicks. That back shoulder throw to nicks is a pass where nicks doesnt need to beat his man to get the ball. Eli puts it where only he can catch it. If anything, it is Eli who makes nicks look good more often than he makes cruz look good. What you said about the 2 are complete opposites

This times infinity.

I don't get the Nicks better than Cruz talk. I really don't. Cruz catches short passes, Cruz catches long passes, Cruz takes short passes and makes them long passes, Cruz goes across the middle, and Cruz is remarkably durable given his considerable workload. Cruz does it with Nicks in the lineup and he can obviously do it without Nicks in the lineup. Cruz can single-handedly win games for you. He does everything you could possibly ask for as a WR. CRUZ IS THE #1. AND THATS NOT A SLAM ON NICKS. Nicks is great, but he doesn't put up the numbers that Cruz does and he doesn't stay healthy. And that has to be considered.

I honestly think it's the fact that Nicks was a first round pick and Cruz was a free agent that it is skewing people's perspectives. If it was the other way around and Cruz was the first rounder, Cruz would be considered the Alpha WR and people would have no problem paying him market price. It shouldn't matter.

The fact is, Cruz has greatly outperformed his contract. I understand the Giants gave him his shot and all that but I think he has repaid that debt in full. There is no playoffs last year without Cruz much less a Superbowl. And if he blows out his knee this week he gets nothing. So I don't blame him for making some noise about a contract.

Ruttiger711
10-24-2012, 11:03 AM
How quickly everyone forgets the playoff output of these two last year. Cruz did great, the 9ers game specifically.

Nicks was a scary playoff beast throughout.

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 11:07 AM
How quickly everyone forgets the playoff output of these two last year. Cruz did great, the 9ers game specifically.

Nicks was a scary playoff beast throughout.

Without Cruz, the Giants are watching last year's playoffs.

RoanokeFan
10-24-2012, 11:09 AM
How quickly everyone forgets the playoff output of these two last year. Cruz did great, the 9ers game specifically.

Nicks was a scary playoff beast throughout.

No one is saying Nicks isn't a great receiver. everyone hopes Reese can find a way to keep them both, and I think he will. But should we only be able to keep one of them, at this moment in time, Cruz seems to be the best bet.

Ruttiger711
10-24-2012, 11:15 AM
No one is saying Nicks isn't a great receiver. everyone hopes Reese can find a way to keep them both, and I think he will. But should we only be able to keep one of them, at this moment in time, Cruz seems to be the best bet.

I think it's only a discussion due to Nick's injury. I still think they are so different in style and roles that a direct side by side comparison is impossible and the neither is or will be as successful without the other.

Ruttiger711
10-24-2012, 11:21 AM
Without Cruz, the Giants are watching last year's playoffs.

Ok and the Giants may not get past GB or MAYBE ATL without Nicks. We don't win the Super Bowl without each of their contributions. My point is in the second season of the playoffs, Nicks was clearly the better of the two.

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 11:23 AM
I think it's only a discussion due to Nick's injury. I still think they are so different in style and roles that a direct side by side comparison is impossible and the neither is or will be as successful without the other.

And Nicks injury history has to be in the equation. He has missed games every year and he is perpetually dinged up even when he does play. This year if it's not the foot it's the knee. If it's not the knee it's the back. Some guys are just like that.

Ruttiger711
10-24-2012, 11:27 AM
And Nicks injury history has to be in the equation. He has missed games every year and he is perpetually dinged up even when he does play. This year if it's not the foot it's the knee. If it's not the knee it's the back. Some guys are just like that.

And yet he's been able to put up numbers similar to the legendary Megatron.

People will laugh at the comparison until they actually look for themselves.

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 11:34 AM
Ok and the Giants may not get past GB or MAYBE ATL without Nicks. We don't win the Super Bowl without each of their contributions. My point is in the second season of the playoffs, Nicks was clearly the better of the two.

The Giants dominated both GB and ATL in the playoffs last year. I think an argument can be made that they still win both those games. But whatever, of course the Giants are better with both guys healthy. But Cruz is a more versatile reciever. He's quicker, more agile. The signature play for the Giants last year was Cruz's TD vs. the Jets, a remarkable play on so many levels. The ability to dodge the tackles. The agility to stay in bounds and the speed to go 99 yards. He's the total package. The only advantage Nicks has on him is the size. You need a jump ball in the end zone, Nicks is the guy, and that is valuable. But there are more guys in the league who bring what Nicks brings to the table than what Cruz brings to the table. Cruz is a rare talent.

Eli2Shockey4aTD
10-24-2012, 11:38 AM
If I had to keep one it woul dbe Cruz. Nicks injury prone issues and Randle I think would fill in better for Nicks then Cruz in the future.

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 11:42 AM
And yet he's been able to put up numbers similar to the legendary Megatron.

People will laugh at the comparison until they actually look for themselves.

Wait, what?

Apples and Oranges. Nicks has had Eli Manning and a great team since coming to the Giants. Calvin Johnson has had one year of a healthy Stafford and a terrible team since joining the Lions. I can't even remember the Lions QB when megatron first got to Detroit. Dan Orlovsky? And also:

Calvin Johnson's best year - 96 catches, 1681 yards, 16 tds

Hakeem Nicks' best year - 79 catches, 1052 yards, 11 tds

Victor Cruz - 82 catches, 1536 yards. 9 tds - on pace to beat that this year

Napstew
10-24-2012, 11:59 AM
The downplaying of Nicks is pure comedy.

Ruttiger711
10-24-2012, 12:01 PM
Wait, what?

Apples and Oranges. Nicks has had Eli Manning and a great team since coming to the Giants. Calvin Johnson has had one year of a healthy Stafford and a terrible team since joining the Lions. I can't even remember the Lions QB when megatron first got to Detroit. Dan Orlovsky? And also:

Calvin Johnson's best year - 96 catches, 1681 yards, 16 tds

Hakeem Nicks' best year - 79 catches, 1052 yards, 11 tds

Victor Cruz - 82 catches, 1536 yards. 9 tds - on pace to beat that this year

As of a few weeks ago:

Career avg Nicks - 15.1 yds/catch 74.3 yds/game - 44 games 216 catches

Career avg Megatron - 16.0 yds/catch 79 yds/game - 79 games 390 catches

Megatron until very recently has been heralded as the nfl best - just saying our number #1 isn't far off.

It's not a knock on Cruz but he benefits from the coverage that the #1 commands - look what happened when Cruz took the #1 spot and Barden excelled.

Ruttiger711
10-24-2012, 12:04 PM
The downplaying of Nicks is pure comedy.

100%

Cruz's play is damn good enough to not have to say CRAZY **** like "all Nicks has is size"

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 12:10 PM
As of a few weeks ago:

Career avg Nicks - 15.1 yds/catch 74.3 yds/game - 44 games 216 catches

Career avg Megatron - 16.0 yds/catch 79 yds/game - 79 games 390 catches

Megatron until very recently has been heralded as the nfl best - just saying our number #1 isn't far off.

It's not a knock on Cruz but he benefits from the coverage that the #1 commands - look what happened when Cruz took the #1 spot and Barden excelled.

And who was Megatron's QB during most of this time? And wasn't he on a team that was 0-16? Larry Fitzgerald has terrible numbers this year, do we think he is suddenly bad or do we think maybe it's because his QBs are terrible. Megatron suddenly got a competent QB last year and look what happened. I guess some people are just incapable of understanding this concept.

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 12:12 PM
The downplaying of Nicks is pure comedy.

And nobody is downplaying Nicks if you bothered to read the posts, he is a good player...when healthy. It's just that Cruz beats him in every measurable.

Ruttiger711
10-24-2012, 12:16 PM
And nobody is downplaying Nicks if you bothered to read the posts, he is a good player...when healthy. It's just that Cruz beats him in every measurable.

You basically said his only attribute is a jump ball receiver.

RoanokeFan
10-24-2012, 12:17 PM
I think it's only a discussion due to Nick's injury. I still think they are so different in style and roles that a direct side by side comparison is impossible and the neither is or will be as successful without the other.

His injuries do factor in.

RoanokeFan
10-24-2012, 12:19 PM
As of a few weeks ago:

Career avg Nicks - 15.1 yds/catch 74.3 yds/game - 44 games 216 catches

Career avg Megatron - 16.0 yds/catch 79 yds/game - 79 games 390 catches

Megatron until very recently has been heralded as the nfl best - just saying our number #1 isn't far off.

It's not a knock on Cruz but he benefits from the coverage that the #1 commands - look what happened when Cruz took the #1 spot and Barden excelled.

That's true, but he also caught 3 TD passes in a game when Nicks wasn't playing.

Ruttiger711
10-24-2012, 12:22 PM
And who was Megatron's QB during most of this time? And wasn't he on a team that was 0-16? Larry Fitzgerald has terrible numbers this year, do we think he is suddenly bad or do we think maybe it's because his QBs are terrible. Megatron suddenly got a competent QB last year and look what happened. I guess some people are just incapable of understanding this concept.

What does it matter - he's been considered the best or near the best regardless of QB or team record every year he's played. Maybe you only noticed him last year.

I'm comparing what Nicks has done compared to the league's best AS A #1 receiver - Cruz has barely had to face #1 coverage.

fansince69
10-24-2012, 12:24 PM
is there really a reason we are having this discussion? why can't we as Giant fans just be glad we have them both....

.this is like 2 parents arguing over who their favorite child is

Ruttiger711
10-24-2012, 12:25 PM
His injuries do factor in.

I suppose - but he has/had a broken foot - it doesn't mean he has "bad feet" now.

And his amount of time out his year isn't the norm as being characterized.

RoanokeFan
10-24-2012, 12:25 PM
What does it matter - he's been considered the best or near the best regardless of QB or team record every year he's played. Maybe you only noticed him last year.

I'm comparing what Nicks has done compared to the league's best AS A #1 receiver - Cruz has barely had to face #1 coverage.

Didn't he have to do that in the games when Nicks didn't play?

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 12:28 PM
You basically said his only attribute is a jump ball receiver.

I said he is better at it than cruz because of his size. He is a big target, he uses his body to box out defenders. That is how he makes most of his catches. He's not a speed burner, he doesn't have off the chart quickness. He's a big physical reciever and Eli likes going to him in the Red Zone. Again, there is value there.

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 12:31 PM
I suppose - but he has/had a broken foot - it doesn't mean he has "bad feet" now.

And his amount of time out his year isn't the norm as being characterized.

If it's not a bad foot, its a bad knee. If it's not a bad knee, its a bad back. The scary part is we really can't point to any one play and say "that's where it happened." These injuries just seem to creep up.

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 12:32 PM
Didn't he have to do that in the games when Nicks didn't play?

Thank you. HE'S BEEN THE #1 RECIEVER FOR THE ENTIRE YEAR!

primetime
10-24-2012, 12:33 PM
The topic of the thread is about Cruz hoping for a long-term contract. Nicks is still under contract, and I feel should get a nice contract raise as well when his time is up. But as of today Cruz is a free agent at the end of the season. And so far he has shown that he is not a one year wonder. I'm not to worried about this situation, I feel Reese will give Cruz a new contract before the season is over.

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 12:38 PM
The topic of the thread is about Cruz hoping for a long-term contract. Nicks is still under contract, and I feel should get a nice contract raise as well when his time is up. But as of today Cruz is a free agent at the end of the season. And so far he has shown that he is not a one year wonder. I'm not to worried about this situation, I feel Reese will give Cruz a nice contract before of at the end of the season.

The reason I think it is legit to involve Nicks in the discussion is because there seems to be a thought out there that the Giants can't keep both. I don't know if that's true, I hope the Giants can keep both. But if you are going to break the bank for one of them, it's gotta be the one who is A) more productive and B) more durable.

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 12:43 PM
What does it matter - he's been considered the best or near the best regardless of QB or team record every year he's played. Maybe you only noticed him last year.

I'm comparing what Nicks has done compared to the league's best AS A #1 receiver - Cruz has barely had to face #1 coverage.

It matters because for the duration of his stay in Detroit, Calvin Johnson has been the only weapon that team has had. Terrible QBs, Terrible RBs, just bad teams. Since Nicks has been with the Giants he has had Eli Manning as his QB, a very good running game (at least for the first couple years) and a good overall team. Stick Calvin Johnson on the Giants for the last 5 years, do you think his numbers might have been a little better? They would have been a lot better. Because who you have throwing you the ball makes a bit of difference.

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 12:48 PM
Keep in mind the Giants have clones of Hakeem Nicks on the roster already. Barden and Randle are very similar recievers. Not as talented (jury is still out on Randle), but capable fill-ins. There is nobody on the Giants roster that brings what Cruz brings. There is nobody in the league who brings what Cruz brings.

dmighty326
10-24-2012, 01:01 PM
writing is on the wall
randle for nicks
wilson for bradshaw
resign cruz

Toadofsteel
10-24-2012, 01:04 PM
Keep in mind the Giants have clones of Hakeem Nicks on the roster already. Barden and Randle are very similar recievers. Not as talented (jury is still out on Randle), but capable fill-ins. There is nobody on the Giants roster that brings what Cruz brings. There is nobody in the league who brings what Cruz brings.

Jernigan

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 01:07 PM
Jernigan

I honestly can't tell if you're being serious.

Toadofsteel
10-24-2012, 01:08 PM
You've been here for 3 years and you don't know what red font means?

fansince69
10-24-2012, 01:09 PM
I honestly can't tell if you're being serious.

its in red hes not serious....he doesnt get that jernigan has talent..

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 01:11 PM
You've been here for 3 years and you don't know what red font means?

I've had an account here for three years but only really started participating for the last few weeks. I assume red font means "this is a joke"...?

fansince69
10-24-2012, 01:11 PM
I've had an account here for three years but only really started participating for the last few weeks. I assume red font means "this is a joke"...?

it means sarcasm

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 01:12 PM
he doesnt get that jernigan has talent..

I honestly can't tell if you're being serious.

Toadofsteel
10-24-2012, 01:13 PM
its in red hes not serious....he doesnt get that jernigan has talent..

In all seriousness, I think he's servicable as a receiver, otherwise we would have kept Stanback or Talley or Depalma over him. But he's no Cruz...

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 01:13 PM
it means sarcasm

Gotcha

drewz
10-24-2012, 01:15 PM
That's true, but he also caught 3 TD passes in a game when Nicks wasn't playing.

In a game where the Browns top corner wasn't playing

Toadofsteel
10-24-2012, 01:17 PM
In a game where the Browns top corner wasn't playing

I still think our offense changes if we're without Nicks. We basically use Cruz like a big ****** magnet, and open up the field for whoever to catch... Hixon, Barden, and Randle all did that and had breakout games for it.

fansince69
10-24-2012, 01:17 PM
In all seriousness, I think he's servicable as a receiver, otherwise we would have kept Stanback or Talley or Depalma over him. But he's no Cruz...

as you so nicely stated.or maybe it was someone else....who is? I still firmly believe that if cruz goes down ....jernigan fills in as nice as barden did for nicks....will he be cruz? no way...but hell do what is asked of him and probably surprise most on this board....his problem is he is stuck behind a guy that never misses a snap

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 01:22 PM
In a game where the Browns top corner wasn't playing

Wow, are we really criticizing a 3 TD game now? You guys are desperate.

RoanokeFan
10-24-2012, 01:22 PM
as you so nicely stated.or maybe it was someone else....who is? I still firmly believe that if cruz goes down ....jernigan fills in as nice as barden did for nicks....will he be cruz? no way...but hell do what is asked of him and probably surprise most on this board....his problem is he is stuck behind a guy that never misses a snap

I don't know about Jernigan, I think you'd more likely see Randle or maybe even Barden .Hixon would fill in for Cruz

drewz
10-24-2012, 01:23 PM
Keep in mind the Giants have clones of Hakeem Nicks on the roster already. Barden and Randle are very similar recievers. Not as talented (jury is still out on Randle), but capable fill-ins. There is nobody on the Giants roster that brings what Cruz brings. There is nobody in the league who brings what Cruz brings.

I can't tell if you're being serious as well. If you're thinking Ramses Barden is ANYWHERE on the same level as Hakeem Nicks, you don't know what you're talking about. Ramses Barden isn't as quick, can't get any separation, can't run the same routes.. he's extra limited as a receiver. Nicks can routinely beat double coverage by find weak spots in zone coverage, Ramses can't even beat man coverage. There's a reason he was drafted 3 rounds after Nicks

fansince69
10-24-2012, 01:23 PM
Wow, are we really criticizing a 3 TD game now? You guys are desperate.

but he only had 5 catches

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 01:24 PM
as you so nicely stated.or maybe it was someone else....who is? I still firmly believe that if cruz goes down ....jernigan fills in as nice as barden did for nicks....will he be cruz? no way...but hell do what is asked of him and probably surprise most on this board....his problem is he is stuck behind a guy that never misses a snap

I think Jernigan has been given every opportunity to contribute to this team, whether it's at WR or KR or PR. I think he is what he is at this point.

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 01:26 PM
but he only had 5 catches

Lulz.

RoanokeFan
10-24-2012, 01:27 PM
but he only had 5 catches

I've been waiting for that to rear its ugly head lol

fansince69
10-24-2012, 01:28 PM
I think Jernigan has been given every opportunity to contribute to this team at this point, whether it's at WR or KR or PR. I think he is what he is at this point.

really? where have you seen these opportunities? the one catch he made on the ONLY ball thrown his way...just remember in 3-4 years we will revisit this ok?

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 01:51 PM
I can't tell if you're being serious as well. If you're thinking Ramses Barden is ANYWHERE on the same level as Hakeem Nicks, you don't know what you're talking about. Ramses Barden isn't as quick, can't get any separation, can't run the same routes.. he's extra limited as a receiver. Nicks can routinely beat double coverage by find weak spots in zone coverage, Ramses can't even beat man coverage. There's a reason he was drafted 3 rounds after Nicks


First off, in my post, I said Barden wasn't as talented. So thanks for your selective reading.

Secondly, using your "drafted 3 rounds after Nicks" argument for Barden, I think this is what most people can't wrap their heads around concering Cruz. How can an undrafted FA out of Mass be the Giants best skill position player? How could this possibly be? It's like people can't believe their eyes. ALL THE GUY DOES IS SCORE GAME WINNING TOUCHDOWNS ALL THE TIME. ALL BIG PLAYS, ALL THE TIME. Let me break it down for you...

The Giants got INCREDIBLY LUCKY. Cruz dropped into their lap. He is being paid a minimal amount of money, despite being a top 3 reciever right now. TOP 3! He is our best skill position player on a team that has other talented players (like Nicks). But he is the best. His stats say it. The impact that he has on games says it. If he was a first round pick then everybody would be okay with this, but some still can't believe a FA out of Mass could possibly be this good. HE IS THIS GOOD. Terrell Davis, Steve Largent, Bart Starr, Roger Staubach, Tom Brady, all thru history guys have been drafted late and underestimated and have turned into some of the best players of all time. HE COULD BE ONE OF THESE GUYS.

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 01:54 PM
really? where have you seen these opportunities? the one catch he made on the ONLY ball thrown his way...just remember in 3-4 years we will revisit this ok?

I'm saying it because he has been passed on the depth chart by everybody, including undrafted free agents out of Mass. Also all Kick and Punt return duties are being performed primarily by 2 rookies. Call it a hunch.

fansince69
10-24-2012, 01:56 PM
First off, in my post, I said Barden wasn't as talented. So thanks for your selective reading.

Secondly, using your "drafted 3 rounds after Nicks" argument for Barden, I think this is what most people can't wrap their heads around concering Cruz. How can an undrafted FA out of Mass be the Giants best skill position player? How could this possibly be? It's like people can't believe their eyes. ALL THE GUY DOES IS SCORE GAME WINNING TOUCHDOWNS ALL THE TIME. ALL BIG PLAYS, ALL THE TIME. Let me break it down for you...

The Giants got INCREDIBLY LUCKY. Cruz dropped into their lap. He is being paid a minimal amount of money, despite being a top 3 reciever right now. TOP 3! He is our best skill position player on a team that has other talented players (like Nicks). But he is the best. His stats say it. The impact that he has on games says it. If he was a first round pick then everybody would be okay with this, but some still can't believe a FA out of Mass could possibly be this good. HE IS THIS GOOD. Terrell Davis, Steve Largent, Bart Starr, Roger Staubach, Tom Brady, all thru history guys have been drafted late and underestimated and have turned into some of the best players of all time. HE COULD BE ONE OF THESE GUYS.

roger staubach isnt a good example...he was upper round talent that dropped cause he had to put time in navy....not really comparable...but your point is relevent


btw eli is a skill position...cruz is better than eli?m just wondering......i love when you guys state things so emphatically that are JUST OPINIONS...stats are not always the bottom line

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 02:05 PM
roger staubach isnt a good example...he was upper round talent that dropped cause he had to put time in navy....not really comparable...but your point is relevent


btw eli is a skill position...cruz is better than eli?m just wondering......i love when you guys state things so emphatically that are JUST OPINIONS...stats are not always the bottom line

I'm talking about backs and recievers.

Let me ask you something, because you are one of these people that is a "stats aren't always the bottom line" guys. What more does he have to do? What does he have to do to prove he is great? How does one prove their greatness, if stats are not the primary metric? He has the stats, but this goes beyond stats. He has the big plays. He wins games. He has been durable. By all accounts he's a great kid. What else is there? Again I ask, what more does he have to do?

And by the way, this is a message board. Opinions are the fuel that run this place.

fansince69
10-24-2012, 02:12 PM
I'm talking about backs and recievers.

Let me ask you something, because you are one of these people that is a "stats aren't always the bottom line" guys. What more does he have to do? What does he have to do to prove he is great? How does one prove their greatness, if stats are not the primary metric? He has the stats, but this goes beyond stats. He has the big plays. He wins games. He has been durable. By all accounts he's a great kid. What else is there? Again I ask, what more does he have to do?

And by the way, this is a message board. Opinions are the fuel that run this place.

first I don't have any problems with opinions...i have problems when people state them like they are facts.....stats are a good guide but they are not the end all...most stats can be manipulated to prove any point... I am a stat fanatic...but they dont always tell the whole story......I am sorry but in this current debate I feel nicks is just as good as cruz.....sorry if forced to choose I am not sure I could...they both have a great amount of value to this team...it is different value but I believe they both feed off each other...I do not think either would be as good somewhere else...without the other and without eli....this is why it's a team sport

its like being forced to pick your favorite kid....

btw I never said he wasn't great...i am just not sure he is any greater than nicks

Ruttiger711
10-24-2012, 02:34 PM
first I don't have any problems with opinions...i have problems when people state them like they are facts.....stats are a good guide but they are not the end all...most stats can be manipulated to prove any point... I am a stat fanatic...but they dont always tell the whole story......I am sorry but in this current debate I feel nicks is just as good as cruz.....sorry if forced to choose I am not sure I could...they both have a great amount of value to this team...it is different value but I believe they both feed off each other...I do not think either would be as good somewhere else...without the other and without eli....this is why it's a team sport

its like being forced to pick your favorite kid....

btw I never said he wasn't great...i am just not sure he is any greater than nicks

Cruz is not a #1 receiver - it will be evident in his signing. His value to the team though is no less or no more than Nicks'

Eli and Cruz won this last game on the last play - emotions are high and he is riding the wave - it is NO COINCIDENCE that on this week that his calculated statement of wanting to be a Giant for life is coming out. It is a brilliant move by him and whoever is advising him... its not shady or anything bad so no one needs to get offended for him...

but I'll say again - when he's the #1 and faces the coverage and top level corners... the top producers are the other guys, Barden, Bennet, Hixon and Randle... neither of those guys can replace Nicks or Cruz.

when the Giants true #1 is in the game - Cruz gets that benefit.

RoanokeFan
10-24-2012, 02:38 PM
Cruz is not a #1 receiver - it will be evident in his signing. His value to the team though is no less or no more than Nicks'

Eli and Cruz won this last game on the last play - emotions are high and he is riding the wave - it is NO COINCIDENCE that on this week that his calculated statement of wanting to be a Giant for life is coming out. It is a brilliant move by him and whoever is advising him... its not shady or anything bad so no one needs to get offended for him...

but I'll say again - when he's the #1 and faces the coverage and top level corners... the top producers are the other guys, Barden, Bennet, Hixon and Randle... neither of those guys can replace Nicks or Cruz.

when the Giants true #1 is in the game - Cruz gets that benefit.

Just curious, has Nicks or Cruz been the "#1" receiver more this season so far?

Ruttiger711
10-24-2012, 02:51 PM
Just curious, has Nicks or Cruz been the "#1" receiver more this season so far?

Do you mean production wise?

As far as where they line up? I have no idea about the number of reps etc but I don't think I've seen nicks in the slot. For all I know the slot could the "x" in some of KG's plays.

RoanokeFan
10-24-2012, 02:56 PM
Do you mean production wise?

As far as where they line up? I have no idea about the number of reps etc but I don't think I've seen nicks in the slot. For all I know the slot could the "x" in some of KG's plays.

According to the snap counts, Nicks has played 51% of the snaps and Cruz 91% through the Redskins game. I also don't think Nicks has played in the slot

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 03:03 PM
its like being forced to pick your favorite kid....


You favor the best looking one, of course.

Rudyy
10-24-2012, 03:07 PM
You favor the best looking one, of course.Goodness.

Riverboat76
10-24-2012, 03:15 PM
Cruz is not a #1 receiver - it will be evident in his signing. His value to the team though is no less or no more than Nicks'

Eli and Cruz won this last game on the last play - emotions are high and he is riding the wave - it is NO COINCIDENCE that on this week that his calculated statement of wanting to be a Giant for life is coming out. It is a brilliant move by him and whoever is advising him... its not shady or anything bad so no one needs to get offended for him...

but I'll say again - when he's the #1 and faces the coverage and top level corners... the top producers are the other guys, Barden, Bennet, Hixon and Randle... neither of those guys can replace Nicks or Cruz.

when the Giants true #1 is in the game - Cruz gets that benefit.

You make my head hurt. What is it with Top-Level corners, as if everybody has a Revis on their team. He almost broke Cromartie's ankles in the Jets game last year. He's pretty good. He's made Asomugha look bad. He's had a big game VS the Bucs secondary which has guys like Talib, Barber, Barron. He has beaten just about everybody put in front of him. You don't think opposing teams gameplan to stop Cruz, especially with Nicks either out or banged up? Really?

Ruttiger711
10-24-2012, 03:50 PM
You make my head hurt. What is it with Top-Level corners, as if everybody has a Revis on their team. He almost broke Cromartie's ankles in the Jets game last year. He's pretty good. He's made Asomugha look bad. He's had a big game VS the Bucs secondary which has guys like Talib, Barber, Barron. He has beaten just about everybody put in front of him. You don't think opposing teams gameplan to stop Cruz, especially with Nicks either out or banged up? Really?

Sure they do - and thats my point - look at the Carolina game - Nicks out... Cruz clearly the "top gun" - and who had the probably the best game out of any WR in the league that week... Cruz? Not with 42 yards he didnt - RAMSES F'ing BARDEN. At what point did i even come close to saying teams dont game plan for him - THATS WHY BARDEN WAS SO SUCCESFUL.

Funny you mention the TB game where he had an amazing game... but still didnt produce as much as Nicks who had the majority of the matchups against Talib. Barber is a safety.

Who do you think Revis was covering that game? OF COURSE it was Cromarties ankles he broke.... Stop acting like Im trying to take anything away from what Cruz has actually done.... i love what hes done.... but it doenst minimize all that Nicks has done - not even close.

You're characterizing Cruz as some world beater all by his lonesome... that he doesnt benefit from the quality of the other receivers around him... namely and ESPECIALLY Nicks.

you really think he doesnt benefit from Nicks being on the field? Really??