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View Full Version : ESPN Rob Parker and Skip Bayless think Eli won't be MVP because he's not COOL enough.



GentleGiant
10-24-2012, 04:02 PM
Apparently these idiots translate "cool" as being an *****hole because they think aaron rodgers is cool and that's why Rob Parker still thinks Rodger is MVP. Coach is being the dumb old "never was" by still picking the cowboys to win the super bowl. Skip Bayless thinks Eli not being "cool" should make him lose MVP. He thinks he acts naive(even though they've done nothing but praise Tebow who always acts like the most naive person ever).


Off topic: Why does ESPN always have BAD coaches and players to talk on their show? Where's Jon Gruden? I only see him on Monday.

Guess what QB they have talking about how to be a QB all the time? Is it Steve Young? No he's on that other show. Is it Dan Fouts? Phil Simms? NO

It's freaking Trent Dilfer. TRENT DILFER.

On topic:





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nlt95nVwNQ


























(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nlt95nVwNQ)

GameTime
10-24-2012, 04:05 PM
Apparently these idiots translate "cool" as being an *****hole because they think aaron rodgers is cool and that's why Rob Parker still thinks Rodger is MVP. Coach is being the dumb old "never was" by still picking the cowboys to win the super bowl. Skip Bayless thinks Eli not being "cool" should make him lose MVP. He thinks he acts naive(even though they've done nothing but praise Tebow who always acts like the most naive person ever).


Off topic: Why does ESPN always have BAD coaches and players to talk on their show? Where's Jon Gruden? I only see him on Monday.

Guess what QB they have talking about how to be a QB all the time? Is it Steve Young? No he's on that other show. Is it Dan Fouts? Phil Simms? NO

It's freaking Trent Dilfer. TRENT DILFER.




























nothing wrong with Difler at all. Good analyst, doesn't take himself seriously at all, and likes eli and the Giants.
whats your problem with him????

Rudyy
10-24-2012, 04:05 PM
It's nothing new.
Eli doesn't play "pretty" games. He rarely shows emotion, and he's not a rah-rah type guy. You probably won't see him in sound bites or SoundFX screaming, and I couldn't careless.

If that's what a MVP candidate is supposed to be, give it to Brees or Rodgers. Eli wins championships.

TheEnigma
10-24-2012, 04:08 PM
Skip Bayless should be nominated for a Best Actor award.

TheAnalyst
10-24-2012, 04:22 PM
Well, 13 Tds and 7 INTs wont really get you an MVP trophy. MVPs go to stat guys like Brady, Peyton and Rodgers and Brees. We had 2 rushing TDs from the 1 yard line that those other QBs would of thrown for. But, Eli wont win MVP when he throws directly at a defender like he did vs Washington. Its ugly, but its winning. That's just how it is.

I've come to realize the fact Eli wont ever have a 40+ TD season. He is a 30TD - 15INT 4200 yards type QB.

rainierjef
10-24-2012, 04:23 PM
Like i've been saying, Eli can throw for 5.5k yards 30+ TD's and have less than 10-12 INT's and still not win league MVP. He's just not as high profile as Brady, Brees, Rdogers. Notihing wrong with lossing a popularity contest when your winning playoff games in route to the super bowl.

merritt
10-24-2012, 04:33 PM
I'd rather see Peyton win MVP...

...and Eli win another Super Bowl MVP.

Mistanihan
10-24-2012, 04:37 PM
****, I'll take a SUperbowl anyday. SB MVP looks a helluva lot better than Regular season MVP.

BeatYale
10-24-2012, 04:38 PM
Rogers: 19 TD (1st). 4 Int (23rd). 1979 yards (4th). Rushing offense ranked 24th.
Brees: 18 TD (2nd). 7 int (8th). 2097 yards (3rd). Rushing offense ranked 32nd.
Brady: 12 TD (7th). 3 int (28th). 2104 yards (2nd). Rushing offense ranked 5th.
Eli: 12 TD (7th). 7 int (8th). 2109 yards (1st). Rushing offense ranked 12th.

He's getting dusted in TD-Int ratio by the other elite QB's. It's a stat line Eli's fanatics don't like to hear and prefer to downplay it's importance. However, it is and always will be the main culprit for why he doesn't get the respect he deserves. The 4th quarter comebacks are exciting, but people overlook the fact that he's climbing out of a hole he dug up earlier in the game via turnovers or lack of efficiency in the redzone. Rogers has thrown 4 times as many TD's than Ints. Eli doesn't even have double in that regard. I understand how important he is to the team, but it's ridiculous to consider him over Rogers (as of right now) for the league MVP.

Rudyy
10-24-2012, 04:40 PM
Rogers: 19 TD (1st). 4 Int (23rd). 1979 yards (4th). Rushing offense ranked 24th.
Brees: 18 TD (2nd). 7 int (8th). 2097 yards (3rd). Rushing offense ranked 32nd.
Brady: 12 TD (7th). 3 int (28th). 2104 yards (2nd). Rushing offense ranked 5th.
Eli: 12 TD (7th). 7 int (8th). 2109 yards (1st). Rushing offense ranked 12th.

He's getting dusted in TD-Int ratio by the other elite QB's. It's a stat line Eli's fanatics don't like to hear and prefer to downplay it's importance. However, it is and always will be the main culprit for why he doesn't get the respect he deserves. The 4th quarter comebacks are exciting, but people overlook the fact that he's climbing out of a hole he dug up earlier in the game via turnovers or lack of efficiency in the redzone. I understand how important he is to the team, but it's ridiculous to consider him over Rogers (as of right now) for the league MVP.Eli dug the hole?

BParcells777
10-24-2012, 04:41 PM
Apparently these idiots translate "cool" as being an *****hole because they think aaron rodgers is cool and that's why Rob Parker still thinks Rodger is MVP. Coach is being the dumb old "never was" by still picking the cowboys to win the super bowl. Skip Bayless thinks Eli not being "cool" should make him lose MVP. He thinks he acts naive(even though they've done nothing but praise Tebow who always acts like the most naive person ever).


Off topic: Why does ESPN always have BAD coaches and players to talk on their show? Where's Jon Gruden? I only see him on Monday.

Guess what QB they have talking about how to be a QB all the time? Is it Steve Young? No he's on that other show. Is it Dan Fouts? Phil Simms? NO

It's freaking Trent Dilfer. TRENT DILFER.

On topic:





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nlt95nVwNQ


























(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nlt95nVwNQ)

Dont forget Billick who either has his old team or Houston atop the power rankings every week..........he must live in CA and have a medical weed card

BigBlue1971
10-24-2012, 04:41 PM
Rob Parker and Skip Bayless better check their facts!

(1. Eli is cool and:

(2. Eli does have MVP awards the kind most if not all qbs want!

TheEnigma
10-24-2012, 04:44 PM
Eli seems to be the kind of player who will always be in the race but there will be a few players who are just having better seasons that year. I'm not sure he will ever actually get an MVP.

Rudyy
10-24-2012, 04:47 PM
Eli seems to be the kind of player who will always be in the race but there will be a few players who are just having better seasons that year. I'm not sure he will ever actually get an MVP.He doesn't even care, so it doesn't concern me one bit lol.

BeatYale
10-24-2012, 04:49 PM
Eli dug the hole?

It wasn't a riddle. I said turnovers and poor redzone play. The guy does lead the league in total turnovers over the course of the last 3 seasons. There's no denying that and no denying the fact that turnovers are bad. I don't hate Eli, I think he's a great QB. I just don't think he's worthy of the MVP award with production that isn't as great as other QB's in the league.

BeatYale
10-24-2012, 04:52 PM
He doesn't even care, so it doesn't concern me one bit lol.

Of course it does. Why else would you be replying to a post that says he doesn't deserve it. You're butt hurt bro, but I'm sure you'll get over it some day.

Rudyy
10-24-2012, 04:54 PM
Of course it does. Why else would you be replying to a post that says he doesn't deserve it. You're butt hurt bro, but I'm sure you'll get over it some day. If you read my first post, I said I couldn't careless, and I couldn't.

I only responded to when you said he dug the hole. I think our 24th ranked defense have been digging much of that hole. Not just Eli. That's all I was trying to say..

TheEnigma
10-24-2012, 04:58 PM
The Giants are also tied for 4th in rushing TDs with 9 on the season so far. We prefer to run it in when we are very close to the end zone so it's the little things like these that won't help Eli in the statistical department.

Rudyy
10-24-2012, 05:00 PM
Stats don't always tell the entire story.
Patriots aren't a running team.
Packers aren't a running team.
Saints aren't a running team
They like to throw the football, which means more yards and touchdowns for the quarterback.
Not saying that's a bad thing, but it is what it is. Good for them.

Bring me the championships.

Buddy333
10-24-2012, 05:00 PM
They probably have a point. His name has not been mentioned in the MVP talks and he is probably hands down the MVP of the league. Who cares?

Moke
10-24-2012, 05:10 PM
Of course it does. Why else would you be replying to a post that says he doesn't deserve it. You're butt hurt bro, but I'm sure you'll get over it some day.


Maybe your butthurt, hence why you even responded to Rudy's post that was directed to someone else.

fansince69
10-24-2012, 05:13 PM
the funny part of this entire thread is that all of you that are complaining care more about this than Eli...cause I promise you he doesn't give a rats *** about these awards

merritt
10-24-2012, 06:30 PM
There is more to being valuable than just stats. Part of that value is the fact that Eli does whatever he can to put us in the play that will help us win.


Eli has no problem checking to a run near the goal line if he thinks that play will give us the highest chance to score. He's selfless. Even in the rare cases that we pull out to a dominating lead, TC is the kind of coach that would prefer to eat the clock and run the ball rather than let Eli continue padding his stats with yards and TDs. You saw earlier this year that Eli is capable of a 500+ yard game when necessary. But, if they can help it, it's not how the Giants like to win games.


Eli also runs one of the most complex offenses in the league. It allows for a lot more miscommunications and misreads that can result in, you guessed it, more INTs. Obviously, like any QB, sometimes Eli just makes bad throws/decisions. To truly ever compare QBs, they would have to all play in the same system, in the same stadium, with the same team and against the same teams for a full season.


Will Eli ever throw 6 TDs in a game like Rodgers did recently? Maybe not. Does that make him any less VALUABLE to this team? Absolutely not.

GentleGiant
10-24-2012, 07:55 PM
nothing wrong with Difler at all. Good analyst, doesn't take himself seriously at all, and likes eli and the Giants.
whats your problem with him????

Not talking about that. He can have his opinion on that. I don't care. I mean the fact that ESPN has HIM as the "QBs opinion" sort of guy.

After Drew Brees beat the single season passing record(I hate the Falcons) they asked him to show how to throw it and how to hold the football(as if he knows). I've seen film of him. He throws floaters and ducks. There were games that the Ravens won where they never threw a TD.

He might be the worst QB to ever win a SB(worst part is it was against us but that was a damn good defense.)

I have nothing against him personally. But come on ESPN. This is it? You got Steve Young on there. Put him on more. Nfl network has Kurt Warner. CBS and NBC and FOX have Bradshaw, Marino, Simms, Fouts, etc, When you're actually gonna make a guy tell us how to be a QB, then he should at least have some credentials appropriate to his profession.

GMan-67
10-24-2012, 10:50 PM
sadly that is probably true ... i joked in an earlier thread that he would need to formulate some kinda TD celebration ... maybe a Toyota Triple Trot ... ooo maybe he can pretend to be holding a Vince Lombardi trophy

then he could get his head shaved and carve an NY on the side

once a game he should get up in the grille of a defender and maybe scream at his Oline or better yet since he is hated even on this board, scream at KG

to win football awards now you have to be able to appeal to the casual fans

fansince69
10-24-2012, 10:56 PM
Not talking about that. He can have his opinion on that. I don't care. I mean the fact that ESPN has HIM as the "QBs opinion" sort of guy.

After Drew Brees beat the single season passing record(I hate the Falcons) they asked him to show how to throw it and how to hold the football(as if he knows). I've seen film of him. He throws floaters and ducks. There were games that the Ravens won where they never threw a TD.

He might be the worst QB to ever win a SB(worst part is it was against us but that was a damn good defense.)

I have nothing against him personally. But come on ESPN. This is it? You got Steve Young on there. Put him on more. Nfl network has Kurt Warner. CBS and NBC and FOX have Bradshaw, Marino, Simms, Fouts, etc, When you're actually gonna make a guy tell us how to be a QB, then he should at least have some credentials appropriate to his profession.

I understand exactly what you are saying.....but there is an old saying ...those who can ..play...those who can't...coach.....some of the greatest football MINDS did not have the skill set to actually play.....just because dilfer was not a good player does not mean he doesn't understand the game.......he knows what it takes to play QB in the nfl....I would much rather listen to dilfer than Steve Young...who to me sounds like a pretentious idiot

flimflam
10-24-2012, 10:58 PM
Rogers: 19 TD (1st). 4 Int (23rd). 1979 yards (4th). Rushing offense ranked 24th.
Brees: 18 TD (2nd). 7 int (8th). 2097 yards (3rd). Rushing offense ranked 32nd.
Brady: 12 TD (7th). 3 int (28th). 2104 yards (2nd). Rushing offense ranked 5th.
Eli: 12 TD (7th). 7 int (8th). 2109 yards (1st). Rushing offense ranked 12th.

He's getting dusted in TD-Int ratio by the other elite QB's. It's a stat line Eli's fanatics don't like to hear and prefer to downplay it's importance. However, it is and always will be the main culprit for why he doesn't get the respect he deserves. The 4th quarter comebacks are exciting, but people overlook the fact that he's climbing out of a hole he dug up earlier in the game via turnovers or lack of efficiency in the redzone. Rogers has thrown 4 times as many TD's than Ints. Eli doesn't even have double in that regard. I understand how important he is to the team, but it's ridiculous to consider him over Rogers (as of right now) for the league MVP.

Yeah, all those guys throw the ball 40-50 times a game too. We run the ball too.

Rat_bastich
10-24-2012, 11:30 PM
Look at guys like Marvin Harrison, Andre Johnson, Curtis Martin and a host of other guys that barely got or get any recognition. They were quiet guys but really good players. Just chalk Eli up to being like them v. the Suh's Cutler's, etc.

Buddy333
10-24-2012, 11:32 PM
Honestly, if you go by numbers which many people do, Rogers is having another MVP season.

giantsfan420
10-24-2012, 11:36 PM
id say thats a good thing skip said that bc usually he takes a topic that is generally accepted as true, and then makes his opinion the opposite as a means to create the drama and back n forth.
eli's obviously a strong mvp candidate, i've heard a ton of respectable nfl analysts say they would pick him as of today...if the giants win the nfc e i'd say eli would get it if he has his typical numbers w/ one exceptional stat ie the 5k yards

giantsfan420
10-24-2012, 11:45 PM
and guys, does eli really have to put ANOTHER 6 game streak of 9 tds 1 int and like 2 k yards for u guys to realize he's extremely capable of that. he has been making 2-3 dumb *** plays a game the past couple weeks, but he also has had games with virtually no chance of an int...but besides those plays, eli is at that level of play that he gets to during those unbelievable runs.
i think the ints have actually been completely flukely and bad luckish. 2 ints in the flats with eli throwing it straight to the defender in a complete brain fart moment, he's only had a couple of ints where he like overthrew the intended wr...i think the ints will go back to 0 to 1 a game if that starting with dallas...

Drez
10-25-2012, 12:00 AM
Like i've been saying, Eli can throw for 5.5k yards 30+ TD's and have less than 10-12 INT's and still not win league MVP. He's just not as high profile as Brady, Brees, Rdogers. Notihing wrong with lossing a popularity contest when your winning playoff games in route to the super bowl.
Except he's holding second place on both ESPN and NFL's current MVP watches (second to Peyton and JJ Watt respectively).

Methinks if Eli continues to play as he has and we clinch the NFCE he very well may get it.

Drez
10-25-2012, 12:03 AM
Not talking about that. He can have his opinion on that. I don't care. I mean the fact that ESPN has HIM as the "QBs opinion" sort of guy.



They have him as that guy because he is an excellent QB analyst.

Steve Young may have been the better QB between the two of them, but he's a horrible analyst.

TheAnalyst
10-25-2012, 12:07 AM
Stats don't always tell the entire story.Patriots aren't a running team.Packers aren't a running team.Saints aren't a running teamThey like to throw the football, which means more yards and touchdowns for the quarterback. Not saying that's a bad thing, but it is what it is. Good for them.Bring me the championships.Pats are a running team this year so far, which explains Brady only having 12 tds. Ridley is 2nd in the league in rushing.

BlueSanta
10-25-2012, 12:32 AM
can we stop making a new thread every time Skip Bayless speaks? seriously

Rudyy
10-25-2012, 12:32 AM
Pats are a running team this year so far, which explains Brady only having 12 tds. Ridley is 2nd in the league in rushing.That is true. However, if you look at the last 4 or 5 years they have mostly been a passing team, same with the Packers and the Saints.

Rudyy
10-25-2012, 12:33 AM
can we stop making a new thread every time Skip Bayless speaks? seriously You know you don't have to watch him, or even click on the thread if it bothers you that much.

miked1958
10-25-2012, 12:43 AM
Rogers: 19 TD (1st). 4 Int (23rd). 1979 yards (4th). Rushing offense ranked 24th.
Brees: 18 TD (2nd). 7 int (8th). 2097 yards (3rd). Rushing offense ranked 32nd.
Brady: 12 TD (7th). 3 int (28th). 2104 yards (2nd). Rushing offense ranked 5th.
Eli: 12 TD (7th). 7 int (8th). 2109 yards (1st). Rushing offense ranked 12th.

He's getting dusted in TD-Int ratio by the other elite QB's. It's a stat line Eli's fanatics don't like to hear and prefer to downplay it's importance. However, it is and always will be the main culprit for why he doesn't get the respect he deserves. The 4th quarter comebacks are exciting, but people overlook the fact that he's climbing out of a hole he dug up earlier in the game via turnovers or lack of efficiency in the redzone. Rogers has thrown 4 times as many TD's than Ints. Eli doesn't even have double in that regard. I understand how important he is to the team, but it's ridiculous to consider him over Rogers (as of right now) for the league MVP.I have a question for you Stat MAN... of the 4 qbs you mention. who has the better won loss record of the 4???

TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 12:52 AM
I have a question for you Stat MAN... of the 4 qbs you mention. who has the better won loss record of the 4???

So you have Matt Ryan as your MVP candidate?

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 01:02 AM
So you have Matt Ryan as your MVP candidate?
oh pls he made a valid point

TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 01:08 AM
oh pls he made a valid point

Not really. W-L isn't an individual achievement or lack of success but a team thing. It only seems to be a factor on this board when it can be used as an advantage for Eli. Why shouldn't Ryan be included in this conversation? He has superior stats to all of those QBs except Rodgers, is the QB of the only undefeated team, and has made huge strides with a new offensive direction.

What about J.J Watt? 9.5 sacks in 7 games by a 3-4 DE, constant pressure and is a force in stuffing the run. His team is also 6-1. What I'm driving at here is if we are going to bring up W-L record, let's include people outside Eli.

miked1958
10-25-2012, 01:13 AM
So you have Matt Ryan as your MVP candidate?Not sure if you mean to be funny or what you meant by your comment. The bottom line isnt who wins the season MVP... Its who wins the most Titles. Im pretty sure Eli didnt win the League MVP award in 07 or 11 but he did win the more important MVP award those seasons... MVP of the SB that is.
SO yes.. Brees, Brady, Rodgers are way ahead of Eli again this season STAT wise.. What else is new.. DO WE CARE??? NO! As long as this season ends the way the other 2 did they can rack up all the Stats they want.

When its all said and done someday people will count up SB Titles won when these 4 names are mentioned. I am fairly confident that Eli"s Name will be on the TOP OF THAT LIST. and thats all that matters to most Giants Fans

TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 01:17 AM
Not sure if you mean to be funny or what you meant by your comment.

Your comment made it sound like you were using W-L as a factor in the MVP race. I didn't realize you were just happy with the team's overall superior success compared to the teams of the other QBs.

miked1958
10-25-2012, 01:19 AM
Not really. W-L isn't an individual achievement or lack of success but a team thing. It only seems to be a factor on this board when it can be used as an advantage for Eli. Why shouldn't Ryan be included in this conversation? He has superior stats to all of those QBs except Rodgers, is the QB of the only undefeated team, and has made huge strides with a new offensive direction.

What about J.J Watt? 9.5 sacks in 7 games by a 3-4 DE, constant pressure and is a force in stuffing the run. His team is also 6-1. What I'm driving at here is if we are going to bring up W-L record, let's include people outside Eli.Throw in Matt Ryan... LOL..what has he won??? NOTHING. just a couple HUGE FLOPS in the playoffs. He will never be taken serious until he at least wins A PLAYOFF GAME... Nevermind a SB.

And you do count wins when you are talking about ELI. He is the direct result of our last second win over washington the other day. The CRAZY 4th quarter Comeback on TB. The Comeback against the Browns when we were way behind, and being able to take us into SF and win big where no one thought we could. As a matter of fact at the time not many thought we'd go into Carolina on that Thursday night and do what we did. That was supposed to be their coming out party. them rounding the corner. Instead it was the start of a huge losing streak and a GM getting fired.

miked1958
10-25-2012, 01:21 AM
Your comment made it sound like you were using W-L as a factor in the MVP race. I didn't realize you were just happy with the team's overall superior success compared to the teams of the other QBs.correct. And sorry if i came across harsh. That wasnt my intention.

I have always been one personally that didnt get all hung up on Regular season Stats. I will take Eli anyday over any of the STAT monsters. lol.

TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 01:25 AM
Throw in Matt Ryan... LOL..what has he won??? NOTHING. just a couple HUGE FLOPS in the playoffs. He will never be taken serious until he at least wins A PLAYOFF GAME... Nevermind a SB.

MVP has nothing to do with prior or expected future playoff success. All that matters for the award is week 1 through week 17 of the regular season that year. So many good players out there would be excluded from awards like Tony Gonzalez because of his horrible luck of never being on team who could get far in the playoffs.


And you do count wins when you are talking about ELI.

Matt Ryan had a comeback against Carolina this year. The only really bad game he has had this season was Oakland and he also managed to eek out the victory for that one like Eli did against Washington. I just wish people would use the same standards for all players.

TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 01:32 AM
correct. And sorry if i came across harsh. That wasnt my intention.

I have always been one personally that didnt get all hung up on Regular season Stats. I will take Eli anyday over any of the STAT monsters. lol.

It's all good man. I probably came across a little snarky myself.

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 03:05 AM
Not really. W-L isn't an individual achievement or lack of success but a team thing. It only seems to be a factor on this board when it can be used as an advantage for Eli. Why shouldn't Ryan be included in this conversation? He has superior stats to all of those QBs except Rodgers, is the QB of the only undefeated team, and has made huge strides with a new offensive direction.

What about J.J Watt? 9.5 sacks in 7 games by a 3-4 DE, constant pressure and is a force in stuffing the run. His team is also 6-1. What I'm driving at here is if we are going to bring up W-L record, let's include people outside Eli.
who the hell said they didnt consider those people? some one posted 4 qbs alongside eli who had better stats, but a worse w/l record. pretty much anyone will tell you team success is part of the formula for choosing an mvp. he made a valid point, and if u were to suggest matt ryan as mvp, that'd be fair. but to use that against that poster bc he didnt mention matt ryan (which u seem to imply he should only be mentioned bc theyre 6-0) when asking the w/l record of qbs eli was compared to that didnt include matt ryan, well thats just lame imho

G.I. Ants
10-25-2012, 03:17 AM
Damn the football gods for not making Eli cool.
http://i.imgur.com/YbD3G.gif

PRGiant
10-25-2012, 03:46 AM
who the hell said they didnt consider those people? some one posted 4 qbs alongside eli who had better stats, but a worse w/l record. pretty much anyone will tell you team success is part of the formula for choosing an mvp. he made a valid point, and if u were to suggest matt ryan as mvp, that'd be fair. but to use that against that poster bc he didnt mention matt ryan (which u seem to imply he should only be mentioned bc theyre 6-0) when asking the w/l record of qbs eli was compared to that didnt include matt ryan, well thats just lame imho

Well the thing is that if you gonna bring up wins as a stat then you have to include Ryan who has better stats and wins than Eli thus far and whoever mentioned previous years...Please jus stop hehehe.

Eli has no shot right now but there's still more than half a season to go.

Go Giants and forget this MVP crap!

Captain Chaos
10-25-2012, 04:02 AM
Believe me Skip knows what uncool is, he sees it in the mirror every morning!

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 04:19 AM
Well the thing is that if you gonna bring up wins as a stat then you have to include Ryan who has better stats and wins than Eli thus far and whoever mentioned previous years...Please jus stop hehehe.

Eli has no shot right now but there's still more than half a season to go.

Go Giants and forget this MVP crap!
oh i agree. dunno if u saw but the previous page, there was a post with eli compared to 4 other qbs (brady,brees, two others iirc) negatively bc those other qbs had a bit better stats.
a poster responded questioning that those other 4 qbs are leading their teams to .500 or worse records....that was all. then another poster jumped in and introduced matt ryan to that particular conversation and used it against that poster for no reason. thats why i made the post u quoted

and i/many others disagree with u about eli not having a shot at mvp. its not purely about stats, its about stats but how they are acquired and if those stats are leading ur team to victories...eli is the best example of that imho so far yes even more so than ryan

BlueSanta
10-25-2012, 06:04 AM
You know you don't have to watch him, or even click on the thread if it bothers you that much.

I do not watch him much, and the forums are inundated with with posts about stuff he says. Personally, he doesn't bother me, even when he says ridiculous things because I recognize that is his job; to say things to get people's ire up so they keep coming back. I prefer not to be a sheep. My problem is that every time he, or anyone says something controversial about the Giants, which is every day, people post here shocked and amazed that such an opinion could exists. Do we really need a post every day after his show complaining about his opinions?


What I find amazing about THIS topic is that Skip statement was actually in Eli's defense. It wasnt an insult to Eli but rather an indictment of the MVP voting process. If anything his saying it will make MORE people vote for Eli because it brings the absurdity of someone's "coolness" being a factor in the process. But people here seem to have taken it as him saying he would not vote for Eli because of the cool factor. Skip actually says very vocally that Eli SHOULD be the MVP based on his play thus far.

Drez
10-25-2012, 07:26 AM
Your comment made it sound like you were using W-L as a factor in the MVP race. I didn't realize you were just happy with the team's overall superior success compared to the teams of the other QBs.
W-L is a factor. You aren't the MVP if your team isn't winning/making the playoffs.

Drez
10-25-2012, 07:28 AM
What about J.J Watt? 9.5 sacks in 7 games by a 3-4 DE, constant pressure and is a force in stuffing the run. His team is also 6-1. What I'm driving at here is if we are going to bring up W-L record, let's include people outside Eli.

JJ Watt is the leading contender on NFL.com's MVP watch list.

Drez
10-25-2012, 07:30 AM
Well the thing is that if you gonna bring up wins as a stat then you have to include Ryan who has better stats and wins than Eli thus far and whoever mentioned previous years...Please jus stop hehehe.

Eli has no shot right now but there's still more than half a season to go.

Go Giants and forget this MVP crap!
Ryan doesn't really have better stats, though. They're pretty similar actually.

giantsfam04
10-25-2012, 08:24 AM
Rogers: 19 TD (1st). 4 Int (23rd). 1979 yards (4th). Rushing offense ranked 24th.
Brees: 18 TD (2nd). 7 int (8th). 2097 yards (3rd). Rushing offense ranked 32nd.
Brady: 12 TD (7th). 3 int (28th). 2104 yards (2nd). Rushing offense ranked 5th.
Eli: 12 TD (7th). 7 int (8th). 2109 yards (1st). Rushing offense ranked 12th.

He's getting dusted in TD-Int ratio by the other elite QB's. It's a stat line Eli's fanatics don't like to hear and prefer to downplay it's importance. However, it is and always will be the main culprit for why he doesn't get the respect he deserves. The 4th quarter comebacks are exciting, but people overlook the fact that he's climbing out of a hole he dug up earlier in the game via turnovers or lack of efficiency in the redzone. Rogers has thrown 4 times as many TD's than Ints. Eli doesn't even have double in that regard. I understand how important he is to the team, but it's ridiculous to consider him over Rogers (as of right now) for the league MVP.

Good post, the argument I would say is the style of offense we play can and does lead to the possibility of more picks for the qb. If the wr reads the d differently that can lead to a pick, ala Bennett during the skins game. Also Eli has dealt with having to groom wr during the season because of injuries to the position. Not making excuses just trying to put a spin on this that has been missed.

GCGiant
10-25-2012, 08:36 AM
The award is a regular season award. The true MVP's are the guys who turn it up a notch during the playoffs and bring home the trophy. I have always wondered why they don't wait until the season is over to give these types of awards. If they had waited for the season to be completely over, Eli might have a couple by now.

Redeyejedi
10-25-2012, 09:09 AM
[QUOTE=GentleGiant;549312]Apparently these idiots translate "cool" as being an *****hole because they think aaron rodgers is cool and that's why Rob Parker still thinks Rodger is MVP. Coach is being the dumb old "never was" by still picking the cowboys to win the super bowl. Skip Bayless thinks Eli not being "cool" should make him lose MVP. He thinks he acts naive(even though they've done nothing but praise Tebow who always acts like the most naive person ever).


Off topic: Why does ESPN always have BAD coaches and players to talk on their show? Where's Jon Gruden? I only see him on Monday.

Guess what QB they have talking about how to be a QB all the time? Is it Steve Young? No he's on that other show. Is it Dan Fouts? Phil Simms? NO

It's freaking Trent Dilfer. TRENT DILFER.

On topic:





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nlt95nVwNQ


























(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nlt95nVwNQ)[/QUOTE

I like Dilfer he is always fair and is complimentary to Eli when its warranted and he has never taken himself to seriously. Dilfer has been 1 of Eli's biggest supporters of late. They are probably right Eli wont win the MVP. Eli we have to put the best numbers in the NFL and have his team with a by to have any chance and even then they would give it to JJ Watt then

SweetZombieJesus
10-25-2012, 09:18 AM
I'd rather see Super Bowl MVPs than regular season MVPs. And Eli's doing quite well in that department.

Out of Exile
10-25-2012, 09:45 AM
Rob Parker is the biggest hater I've seen in years. He can S my D.

Rudyy
10-25-2012, 10:28 AM
I'd rather see Super Bowl MVPs than regular season MVPs. And Eli's doing quite well in that department. /thread

BeatYale
10-25-2012, 02:47 PM
oh i agree. dunno if u saw but the previous page, there was a post with eli compared to 4 other qbs (brady,brees, two others iirc) negatively bc those other qbs had a bit better stats.
a poster responded questioning that those other 4 qbs are leading their teams to .500 or worse records....that was all. then another poster jumped in and introduced matt ryan to that particular conversation and used it against that poster for no reason. thats why i made the post u quoted

and i/many others disagree with u about eli not having a shot at mvp. its not purely about stats, its about stats but how they are acquired and if those stats are leading ur team to victories...eli is the best example of that imho so far yes even more so than ryan

19:4 is 'a bit' better than 12:7? The 7 touchdown differential is a big deal, that's 42 more points on a scoreboard. And he's doing that with almost half as less interceptions. The point I'm trying to make is how hard it would be to justify Eli getting the MVP award when, Rodgers, for this example, is producing far more than him. Regarding winning percentages, that has more to do with teams as a whole.

Off topic: The area of concern, which has been this way throughout his career, is redzone efficiency. Last season, for example, he was the only QB who produced almost half of his TD's outside the redzone. 15 of his 29 TD's were in the redzone which is an anomaly compared to the other top performers. Rodgers and Brees had double that amount with 30, Brady and Stafford had 29. Sadly, he was tied for the league lead in redzone interceptions and only Jay Cutler has had more than him over the last 3 years. This year Eli already has 2, maybe 3?

I love the Giants, I'll take championships over MVP awards. I just don't believe Eli is the best in the league, not when excuses have to be made asking people to 'think outside the box' for the sake of figuring out his edge over other elite QB's. Championships are team accolades. You run the offense, put up more points and less turnovers to change the opinions of the masses. It's simple, but it's not easy.

yoeddy
10-25-2012, 02:50 PM
Off topic: The area of concern, which has been this way throughout his career, is redzone efficiency. Last season, for example, he was the only QB who produced almost half of his TD's outside the redzone. 15 of his 29 TD's were in the redzone which is an anomaly compared to the other top performers. Rodgers and Brees had double that amount with 30, Brady and Stafford had 29. Sadly, he was tied for the league lead in redzone interceptions and only Jay Cutler has had more than him over the last 3 years. This year Eli already has 2, maybe 3?

Think about it this way...if he didn't score so many TDs from outside the redzone, he'd probably have more from inside the redzone as he would have more opportunities....

BlueReign
10-25-2012, 02:51 PM
Rob Parker is a buffoon. Skip, on the other hand, as opinionated as he may be is usually spot on.

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 02:57 PM
19:4 is 'a bit' better than 12:7? The 7 touchdown differential is a big deal, that's 42 more points on a scoreboard. And he's doing that with almost half as less interceptions. The point I'm trying to make is how hard it would be to justify Eli getting the MVP award when, Rodgers, for this example, is producing far more than him. Regarding winning percentages, that has more to do with teams as a whole.

Off topic: The area of concern, which has been this way throughout his career, is redzone efficiency. Last season, for example, he was the only QB who produced almost half of his TD's outside the redzone. 15 of his 29 TD's were in the redzone which is an anomaly compared to the other top performers. Rodgers and Brees had double that amount with 30, Brady and Stafford had 29. Sadly, he was tied for the league lead in redzone interceptions and only Jay Cutler has had more than him over the last 3 years. This year Eli already has 2, maybe 3?

I love the Giants, I'll take championships over MVP awards. I just don't believe Eli is the best in the league, not when excuses have to be made asking people to 'think outside the box' for the sake of figuring out his edge over other elite QB's. Championships are team accolades. You run the offense, put up more points and less turnovers to change the opinions of the masses. It's simple, but it's not easy.
theres no disputing the statistical success of those qbs. but the nfl isnt FF. this stat driven thing is more a result of this past decade or so and the FF take off. stats of course play a huge role, but so does how u are leading the team, the success ur leading ur team to, in combination with stats. factor in outside things like he's made barden and randle look like superstars in 2 diff games when nicks was out...i think u'd be surprised with just how many people are saying eli isnt only a strong candidate but he's their mvp at this point...i know the case has been made for ryan and others but i've heard a stronger consensus for eli than any other play. its still early tho. got a whole season to go, and i think he'll start to have stats closer to those guys in terms of td:int ratio, even tho he leads the league in yardage (partly bc of the 500 yd game, which is another thing ppl take notice of) so is it really that outside the box when so many ppl r saying the same person?

BParcells777
10-25-2012, 02:59 PM
I dont watch Skip too much anymore........is he still professing his man love for Tim Tebow?

Drez
10-25-2012, 04:32 PM
theres no disputing the statistical success of those qbs. but the nfl isnt FF. this stat driven thing is more a result of this past decade or so and the FF take off. stats of course play a huge role, but so does how u are leading the team, the success ur leading ur team to, in combination with stats. factor in outside things like he's made barden and randle look like superstars in 2 diff games when nicks was out...i think u'd be surprised with just how many people are saying eli isnt only a strong candidate but he's their mvp at this point...i know the case has been made for ryan and others but i've heard a stronger consensus for eli than any other play. its still early tho. got a whole season to go, and i think he'll start to have stats closer to those guys in terms of td:int ratio, even tho he leads the league in yardage (partly bc of the 500 yd game, which is another thing ppl take notice of) so is it really that outside the box when so many ppl r saying the same person?
Yale just has a hard on for td:int ratio, as that is the sole measure for QB play. Anyone who has half a brain that's been watching football this season knows that Eli has been playing the position as well as anyone, regardless of whether or not others may have slightly better stats than him.

Remember, it's Most Valuable Player Award, not Best Statistical Season at Said Position Award.

TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 04:38 PM
W-L is a factor. You aren't the MVP if your team isn't winning/making the playoffs.

Which isn't quite fair to be honest. There's plenty of good players in this league on teams who are struggling. W-L is mostly used as a tiebreaker and isn't heavily considered unless the race is that dead even.

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 04:55 PM
Which isn't quite fair to be honest. There's plenty of good players in this league on teams who are struggling. W-L is mostly used as a tiebreaker and isn't heavily considered unless the race is that dead even.
lmfao...wrong. just 100% wrong. u do know that some of the voters explain their criteria right? how their success equates to their team success is unanimously a heavy weighted criteria.
if u want to argue thats fair or not, thats fine. but go look at the past 10 mvp winners...tell me ur statement holds water

Mercury
10-25-2012, 04:57 PM
I think it's just great that Eli is a contender. Last year the discussion was whether he was elite. Now it's about, whether he is #1.

TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 05:02 PM
lmfao...wrong. just 100% wrong. u do know that some of the voters explain their criteria right? how their success equates to their team success is unanimously a heavy weighted criteria.
if u want to argue thats fair or not, thats fine. but go look at the past 10 mvp winners...tell me ur statement holds water

Aaron Rodgers won it because of his ridiculous QB rating last year
Brady won it in 2010 because of his phenomenal TD:INT ratio
Peyton won it in 2009 because he WAS the Colts that year. Seriously, nothing else was that great for them.
Peyton won it in 2008 with his Colts team that had a lesser record than the Titans? Huh, what do you know... W-L didn't factor here.

lmfao rofl looooooooool dude...

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 05:33 PM
Aaron Rodgers won it because of his ridiculous QB rating last year
Brady won it in 2010 because of his phenomenal TD:INT ratio
Peyton won it in 2009 because he WAS the Colts that year. Seriously, nothing else was that great for them.
Peyton won it in 2008 with his Colts team that had a lesser record than the Titans? Huh, what do you know... W-L didn't factor here.

lmfao rofl looooooooool dude...

u mean the 13-3 titans or whatever it was? and who the hell said "best w/l record means auto mvp"...u said w/l didnt matter except for "tie breaking" and thats just a completely false statement. sorry if pointing that out envokes some sort of territorial alpha dog bs i dunno with the lmfao rofl etc...i literally found ur statement to be funny bc it was just so wrong, dont quite get how ud find what u did funny unless u stopped taking ur meds?

edit- and as i pointed out, u stopped at the past like 5 bc i guess it became apparent enough, but the success an individual player has and its relation to the success of his team is most def a very weighted criteria

nycisgreat
10-25-2012, 05:44 PM
Apparently these idiots translate "cool" as being an *****hole because they think aaron rodgers is cool and that's why Rob Parker still thinks Rodger is MVP. Coach is being the dumb old "never was" by still picking the cowboys to win the super bowl. Skip Bayless thinks Eli not being "cool" should make him lose MVP. He thinks he acts naive(even though they've done nothing but praise Tebow who always acts like the most naive person ever).


Off topic: Why does ESPN always have BAD coaches and players to talk on their show? Where's Jon Gruden? I only see him on Monday.

Guess what QB they have talking about how to be a QB all the time? Is it Steve Young? No he's on that other show. Is it Dan Fouts? Phil Simms? NO

It's freaking Trent Dilfer. TRENT DILFER.

On topic:





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nlt95nVwNQ


























(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nlt95nVwNQ)

Honestly, I can see where they're coming from. Eli is a really nice guy, and he isn't boastful. He seems like a very humble person. People in general like controversy. The media likes controversy because it sells. I think what they are saying is the same reason why people never give Eli any credit. Because he isn't going around talking trash like other players in the NFL, and isn't seeking everyone's approval. Look at what D Hall said this week about him after suffering a terrible loss. I don't think he would've said anything if Peyton threw that touch down. The Skins defense have been getting hammered all season, but when Eli causes it. He did because of luck.

TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 05:52 PM
who the hell said "best w/l record means auto mvp"

Where did I ever claim anyone stated that?


u said w/l didnt matter except for "tie breaking" and thats just a completely false statement.

It's not really brought up too much unless you have multiple candidates being considered for the same award. As of now, there is no frontrunner so that's why it is brought up.


sorry if pointing that out envokes some sort of territorial alpha dog bs i dunno with the lmfao rofl etc...

Yes, clearly it had to do with alpha dog forum drama. You type it as a way to mock and belittle other posters and you've been doing that for years.


i literally found ur statement to be funny bc it was just so wrong, dont quite get how ud find what u did funny unless u stopped taking ur meds?

Very classy 420. I know you can be more mature than that. You just can't manage to avoid putting in personal attacks, can you?


edit- and as i pointed out, u stopped at the past like 5 bc i guess it became apparent enough, but the success an individual player has and its relation to the success of his team is most def a very weighted criteria

2007 was the Pats 16-0 year. I'll give you that this year no one else was going to be considered in a season with an undefeated team and W-L had a huge factor.

2006 was Ladainian Tomlinson's 28 TD and 1800+ yards year. Anyone who isn't a QB that gets 28 TDs is going to be considered for MVP no matter the record.

2005 was Shaun Alexander. Again, 27 TD and 1800+ yards. W-L factors very little in such production like that.

If you want, I can keep going. What I'm seeing so far is ridiculous individual achievements that very few people even compared to in those seasons.

Drez
10-25-2012, 07:41 PM
Aaron Rodgers won it because of his ridiculous QB rating last year
Brady won it in 2010 because of his phenomenal TD:INT ratio
Peyton won it in 2009 because he WAS the Colts that year. Seriously, nothing else was that great for them.
Peyton won it in 2008 with his Colts team that had a lesser record than the Titans? Huh, what do you know... W-L didn't factor here.

lmfao rofl looooooooool dude...
Did the Colts have a winning record?

Did all those players play on teams that had above .500 records?

Hmmmm.....

giantsforce
10-25-2012, 07:42 PM
nothing wrong with Difler at all. Good analyst, doesn't take himself seriously at all, and likes eli and the Giants.
whats your problem with him????Trent Dilfer is a much better analyst that he was QB.

Drez
10-25-2012, 07:47 PM
Where did I ever claim anyone stated that?



It's not really brought up too much unless you have multiple candidates being considered for the same award. As of now, there is no frontrunner so that's why it is brought up.



Yes, clearly it had to do with alpha dog forum drama. You type it as a way to mock and belittle other posters and you've been doing that for years.



Very classy 420. I know you can be more mature than that. You just can't manage to avoid putting in personal attacks, can you?



2007 was the Pats 16-0 year. I'll give you that this year no one else was going to be considered in a season with an undefeated team and W-L had a huge factor.

2006 was Ladainian Tomlinson's 28 TD and 1800+ yards year. Anyone who isn't a QB that gets 28 TDs is going to be considered for MVP no matter the record.

2005 was Shaun Alexander. Again, 27 TD and 1800+ yards. W-L factors very little in such production like that.

If you want, I can keep going. What I'm seeing so far is ridiculous individual achievements that very few people even compared to in those seasons.
And it remains unlikely that any of those players would have won MVP if their team had a losing record.

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 07:53 PM
Where did I ever claim anyone stated that?



It's not really brought up too much unless you have multiple candidates being considered for the same award. As of now, there is no frontrunner so that's why it is brought up.



Yes, clearly it had to do with alpha dog forum drama. You type it as a way to mock and belittle other posters and you've been doing that for years.



Very classy 420. I know you can be more mature than that. You just can't manage to avoid putting in personal attacks, can you?



2007 was the Pats 16-0 year. I'll give you that this year no one else was going to be considered in a season with an undefeated team and W-L had a huge factor.

2006 was Ladainian Tomlinson's 28 TD and 1800+ yards year. Anyone who isn't a QB that gets 28 TDs is going to be considered for MVP no matter the record.

2005 was Shaun Alexander. Again, 27 TD and 1800+ yards. W-L factors very little in such production like that.

If you want, I can keep going. What I'm seeing so far is ridiculous individual achievements that very few people even compared to in those seasons.
this is why i d ont take stock in the "oh u do this and that for years" comments...how is it personally attacking you at all to point out an inaccurate statement? im not calling into question anything about you. i honestly did find ur original statement funny bc its prob the least accurate thing i've seen u post, i mean cmon it is a funny assertion that "w/l are used as tiebreakers" lol really?

ur "lmfao lol..." was way more of a personal attack than anything i did and u know thats true bc thats why u specifically did it. which is why i questioned why u would? u seemed to take my pointing out at the least a different stance (even tho its the truth) and just got offended. sorry if i didnt word it right or seemed like a jerk, but how a player leads a team is def valued in the mvp discussion. u say that all u see with the prior mvps are a lot of ridiculous personal achievements...guess what they did, HELPED THEIR TEAMS TO SUCCESS IN THE REG. SEASON...

edit-and my pt about the w/l auto mvp statement was u implied that bc the titans had a better record that peyton winning the mvp goes against what i said

TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 07:55 PM
Did the Colts have a winning record?

Did all those players play on teams that had above .500 records?

Hmmmm.....

Usually individual success to the degrees that the former MVPs have achieved will make it very easy for a team to have a great W/L ratio. I just read two articles (one is ESPN, the other is some local news) about Peyton's 2008 MVP award and not once in either article did they mention the Colts 12-4 record that year. They did mention though Peyton's high amount of yards, TDs, and few INTs thrown in the streak after their 3-4 record. What I've been getting at but perhaps I'm just not wording it right...the W-L factor isn't nearly as big of a deal as you guys make it out to be.

Source: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3805670

TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 07:56 PM
And it remains unlikely that any of those players would have won MVP if their team had a losing record.

Complete conjecture. Unless of course in your scenario that there is other players that have similar statistics or individual achievements as well.

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 07:57 PM
Did the Colts have a winning record?

Did all those players play on teams that had above .500 records?

Hmmmm.....

thats why i felt he was like trying to be alpha dog or something. he got offended bc he made a terribly inaccurate statement and someone (me, which prob is specifically why he got offended) called it out. it happens. its not a personal attack in any way

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 08:00 PM
Usually individual success to the degrees that the former MVPs have achieved will make it very easy for a team to have a great W/L ratio. I just read two articles (one is ESPN, the other is some local news) about Peyton's 2008 MVP award and not once in either article did they mention the Colts 12-4 record that year. They did mention though Peyton's high amount of yards, TDs, and few INTs thrown in the streak after their 3-4 record. What I've been getting at but perhaps I'm just not wording it right...the W-L factor isn't nearly as big of a deal as you guys make it out to be.

Source: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3805670

dude, do u need me to requoute what u said? u literally said "w'/l arent a factor. its usually used when theres close races between players as a tiebreaker" LMFAO what?!
u are thinking of FF MVP i guess i dunno? SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY VOTE SHARE THE CRITERIA THEY USE, HOW THE PLAYERS PERSONAL SUCCESS RELATES TO THE TEAMS SUCCESS IS HEAVILY WEIGHTED. thus, u can have a guy rush for 2k on a 2-14 team and a guy rush for 1800 on a 14-2 team...guess whose gonna get the mvp?

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 08:02 PM
Which isn't quite fair to be honest. There's plenty of good players in this league on teams who are struggling. W-L is mostly used as a tiebreaker and isn't heavily considered unless the race is that dead even.

whether its fair or not is fair to argue. the second statement is just 1000% wrong and no spin u put on it changes that

TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 08:05 PM
this is why i d ont take stock in the "oh u do this and that for years" comments...

Do you not do that to people when you argue/discuss points with them? Maybe you don't mean it the way it comes across but to some people, it appears very mean-spirited. You bring up good points man. I just hate to see you do that kind of stuff when you don't need to.


how is it personally attacking you at all to point out an inaccurate statement?

The personal attack was the "did you forget to take your meds" comment. Unless you know someone literally has medication, it's very insulting to assume someone has meds that they need to take to become level-headed. Just ask someone that in real life and you'll see what I mean.


i honestly did find ur original statement funny bc its prob the least accurate thing i've seen u post, i mean cmon it is a funny assertion that "w/l are used as tiebreakers" lol really?

Perhaps I could of elaborated on my stance better with a more thorough explanation but these past 10 NFL MVPS, how often did the race come down to multiple candidates in the end? Not very often because the winner usually has a clear statistical edge.


ur "lmfao lol..." was way more of a personal attack than anything i did and u know thats true bc thats why u specifically did it. which is why i questioned why u would? u seemed to take my pointing out at the least a different stance (even tho its the truth) and just got offended. sorry if i didnt word it right or seemed like a jerk, but how a player leads a team is def valued in the mvp discussion. u say that all u see with the prior mvps are a lot of ridiculous personal achievements...guess what they did, HELPED THEIR TEAMS TO SUCCESS IN THE REG. SEASON...

My comment was personal yes and that's because you do it to a ton of people. It was not nearly as vile as your meds statement though.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that the individual achievements are weighed in much more than the W-L that you guys value so much. Look back at the articles for these guys when they won the MVP awards. What do they talk about more often?

TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 08:08 PM
dude, do u need me to requoute what u said? u literally said "w'/l arent a factor. its usually used when theres close races between players as a tiebreaker" LMFAO what?!
u are thinking of FF MVP i guess i dunno? SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY VOTE SHARE THE CRITERIA THEY USE, HOW THE PLAYERS PERSONAL SUCCESS RELATES TO THE TEAMS SUCCESS IS HEAVILY WEIGHTED. thus, u can have a guy rush for 2k on a 2-14 team and a guy rush for 1800 on a 14-2 team...guess whose gonna get the mvp?

Just to show that I can admit my faults...I should of said "W/L isn't that strong of a factor". It just seems you guys are putting more weight on it than it actually has for the MVP awards.

Drez
10-25-2012, 08:08 PM
Complete conjecture. Unless of course in your scenario that there is other players that have similar statistics or individual achievements as well.
Not really. No player in the Super Bowl era has ever won an MVP award while on a team with a losing record. The MVP may not be on the team with the best record, but that team WILL have a winning record.

TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 08:09 PM
thats why i felt he was like trying to be alpha dog or something. he got offended bc he made a terribly inaccurate statement and someone (me, which prob is specifically why he got offended) called it out. it happens. its not a personal attack in any way

You really flatter yourself dude lol.

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 08:11 PM
Do you not do that to people when you argue/discuss points with them? Maybe you don't mean it the way it comes across but to some people, it appears very mean-spirited. You bring up good points man. I just hate to see you do that kind of stuff when you don't need to.



The personal attack was the "did you forget to take your meds" comment. Unless you know someone literally has medication, it's very insulting to assume someone has meds that they need to take to become level-headed. Just ask someone that in real life and you'll see what I mean.



Perhaps I could of elaborated on my stance better with a more thorough explanation but these past 10 NFL MVPS, how often did the race come down to multiple candidates in the end? Not very often because the winner usually has a clear statistical edge.



My comment was personal yes and that's because you do it to a ton of people. It was not nearly as vile as your meds statement though.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that the individual achievements are weighed in much more than the W-L that you guys value so much. Look back at the articles for these guys when they won the MVP awards. What do they talk about more often?
if u relook, i made the meds comment bc i didnt understand why u FIRST attacked me with the rofl lol omg duuuuuuude bs. that didnt come out of nowhere, it was instigated bc i challenged an inaccurate claim u made. and i personally take meds, which is why i said that as a joke, not even to insult u bc as i stated, id say ur statement was the least accurate one ive seen u made (which shuldnt be taken as an insult bc thats like nothing and actually a comment).
whatever over it. just dont do the "now i see why the last years so and so says this about u" bs bc its lame esp when im just trying to talk football

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 08:12 PM
Not really. No player in the Super Bowl era has ever won an MVP award while on a team with a losing record. The MVP may not be on the team with the best record, but that team WILL have a winning record.
must have been a ton of tiebreakers back to back since the mvps inception then lol

TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 08:13 PM
Not really. No player in the Super Bowl era has ever won an MVP award while on a team with a losing record. The MVP may not be on the team with the best record, but that team WILL have a winning record.

And how often is there a player on a team with a losing record that can be compared to a player on a winning team with stats? There aren't enough of these scenarios to judge.

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 08:15 PM
And how often is there a player on a team with a losing record that can be compared to a player on a winning team with stats? There aren't enough of these scenarios to judge.

lmfao dude u need to throw in the towel on this one...MJD???

TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 08:15 PM
lmfao dude u need to throw in the towel on this one...MJD???

Which season?


if u relook, i made the meds comment bc i didnt understand why u FIRST attacked me with the rofl lol omg duuuuuuude bs. that didnt come out of nowhere, it was instigated bc i challenged an inaccurate claim u made. and i personally take meds, which is why i said that as a joke, not even to insult u bc

Look I'll admit that I said the whole rofl thing as an attack because I just don't appreciate you doing that to people on this forum but can you seriously sit there with a straight face and say the meds comment was a joke? C'mon man haha.

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 08:15 PM
i dont believe barry sanders ever won league mvp altho he could be the exception...

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 08:16 PM
Which season?
any of the last 3 or 4 he's led the league in all purpose yards. dont know his stats well enough but i do know he's been the most consistent, top performing rb and he never is even voted for mvp

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 08:18 PM
id venture barry sanders would be the lone exception and that was 97 and iirc they even made the playoffs that yr lemme check, he won OPOY 2x before and id venture the lions had lil success as a team those years

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 08:19 PM
and yup, i was right. the one year barry sanders won mvp, it was the first year the lions made the playoffs in that era...says something about how mvps are awarded...sanders had mvp season each n every season but only got it when his team had success

Drez
10-25-2012, 08:19 PM
And how often is there a player on a team with a losing record that can be compared to a player on a winning team with stats? There aren't enough of these scenarios to judge.
My only contention is that W/L matters, insofar as the team needs to have a winning record and be playoff bound for a player to be considered for MVP. So long as that minimum is met, then it doesn't matter as much. From there personal achievement and importance to the success of the player's team is more heavily weighed than W/L. Granted, I didn't elaborate quite as much, but I said essentially the same thing in my first post about W/L mattering.

TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 08:22 PM
any of the last 3 or 4 he's led the league in all purpose yards. dont know his stats well enough but i do know he's been the most consistent, top performing rb and he never is even voted for mvp

Are you absolutely sure he was an MVP candidate those years? I just looked at his wiki and some articles but never seen him considered a serious candidate. Just thoughts by local writers and none of the guys actually responsible for the ballot.

Drez
10-25-2012, 08:22 PM
id venture barry sanders would be the lone exception and that was 97 and iirc they even made the playoffs that yr lemme check, he won OPOY 2x before and id venture the lions had lil success as a team those yearsSanders won the MVP award that year. The Lions were 9-7 and lost in the WC round.

TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 08:25 PM
My only contention is that W/L matters, insofar as the team needs to have a winning record and be playoff bound for a player to be considered for MVP. So long as that minimum is met, then it doesn't matter as much. From there personal achievement and importance to the success of the player's team is more heavily weighed than W/L. Granted, I didn't elaborate quite as much, but I said essentially the same thing in my first post about W/L mattering.

Fair enough. Can't really disagree with that statement. Thanks for clearing it up Drez.


and yup, i was right. the one year barry sanders won mvp, it was the first year the lions made the playoffs in that era...says something about how mvps are awarded...sanders had mvp season each n every season but only got it when his team had success

Fair enough. Though I think it's fair to argue that W/L isn't as heavily weighted these days and with sports writers being more open minded, I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen one day.

VBGiantsFan
10-25-2012, 08:28 PM
I'd rather he was superbowl MVP than regular season MVP anyway. Get us the playoffs and see who the real MVP is then.

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 08:39 PM
Fair enough. Can't really disagree with that statement. Thanks for clearing it up Drez.



Fair enough. Though I think it's fair to argue that W/L isn't as heavily weighted these days and with sports writers being more open minded, I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen one day.

well thanx to me being a ****, i actually didnt get to talk about an interesting point u raised. whether or not that its fair for the team to have to essentially be a successful team to earn the mvp award. in baseball, i believe there was a cy young winner last yr with like a 12-12 record. his personal stats were amazing, but the team behind him sucked.
i think that it could possibly happen like that in the nfl, but its so hard to dominate certain statistical subsets and not have that lead ur team to some sorta success. thats why i brought up MJD. the fact he prob HASNT been discussed as an mvp candidate at all (from what u found i dunno i know he prob never got a vote towards mvp but im sure he was thought of) bc of his team constantly being poor. mjd would have to like break several prominent records to get mvp if his team still sucked record wise...i dunno tho. in this fantasy era, i like that the nfl mvp requires some sort of contribution to the team succeeding. thats why id prefer it to stay like this

Drez
10-25-2012, 08:44 PM
Though I think it's fair to argue that W/L isn't as heavily weighted these days and with sports writers being more open minded, I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen one day.
I find it very unlikely that there will ever be an MVP that's from a team with a losing record, save for if there are co-MVPs (for example, the year that Sanders won with the 9-7 Lions, he was co-MVP with Favre whose team was 13-3); the thought process being (errantly or not) that how valuable can you be if your team isn't winning games?

Drez
10-25-2012, 08:46 PM
well thanx to me being a ****, i actually didnt get to talk about an interesting point u raised. whether or not that its fair for the team to have to essentially be a successful team to earn the mvp award. in baseball, i believe there was a cy young winner last yr with like a 12-12 record. his personal stats were amazing, but the team behind him sucked.


Yeah, that was King Felix. IIRC, he had the worst run support of any pitcher in baseball, yet his individual stats were outstanding.

However, I can see a player win an offensive or defensive player of the year award while being on a team with a losing record, but don't see an MVP coming from a team with a losing record, save for the caveat in my prior post.

Tommy_Ribs
10-25-2012, 09:31 PM
Eli Manning will be the Worst QB ever to win 3 or more Superbowls, and the Worst Quarterback ever to into the HOF on the First Ballot. And he will be the Worst top 5 QB of his era.

I'll take all of those.

Bayless is a little female dog. No one, and I mean no one likes or respects him - no one. To me, that says volumes about you as a man.

GCGiant
10-26-2012, 07:20 AM
I find the comment ironic since Eli has a reputation for being cool when the pressure is on. I have heard comments like "cooler than the other side of the pillow"..."Easy E", etc.

If his demeanor off the field is being referenced, then I would have to take exception to that as well. IMO, coolness is a perception, and my perception is that Eli remains a very down to earth guy despite his celibrity. To me, that's the coolest a person can get...not very full of himself.

I recently installed a machine in Oxford, Eli's offseason home, and people tell me that he drives around town in a pick-up truck wearing jeans and shops at Walmart. OK...maybe that last part doesn't sound so cool...but again...it's all in your perspective of cool.

sharick88
10-26-2012, 07:53 PM
Apparently these idiots translate "cool" as being an *****hole because they think aaron rodgers is cool and that's why Rob Parker still thinks Rodger is MVP. Coach is being the dumb old "never was" by still picking the cowboys to win the super bowl. Skip Bayless thinks Eli not being "cool" should make him lose MVP. He thinks he acts naive(even though they've done nothing but praise Tebow who always acts like the most naive person ever).


Off topic: Why does ESPN always have BAD coaches and players to talk on their show? Where's Jon Gruden? I only see him on Monday.

Guess what QB they have talking about how to be a QB all the time? Is it Steve Young? No he's on that other show. Is it Dan Fouts? Phil Simms? NO

It's freaking Trent Dilfer. TRENT DILFER.

On topic:





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nlt95nVwNQ


























(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nlt95nVwNQ)

Dilfer is actually one of the few analysts over there that are any good. I don't even watch first take that much anymore. I mean that new host on there is scorching hot, but I would rather be able to digest my breakfast instead of throwing it up because of the dumb **** that Skip Bayless and Rob Parker say on a regular basis. Anyways, why even care? A loser is a loser and they both are.

brad
10-26-2012, 10:46 PM
Rogers: 19 TD (1st). 4 Int (23rd). 1979 yards (4th). Rushing offense ranked 24th.
Brees: 18 TD (2nd). 7 int (8th). 2097 yards (3rd). Rushing offense ranked 32nd.
Brady: 12 TD (7th). 3 int (28th). 2104 yards (2nd). Rushing offense ranked 5th.
Eli: 12 TD (7th). 7 int (8th). 2109 yards (1st). Rushing offense ranked 12th.


If your looking strictly at performance as a passer, clearly Eli falls somewhere below Brees, Rogers and Brady. That isn't a slight on Eli, it is just what the numbers show. And that is OK... Marino put up great numbers and never won a ring, I would take Eli and his numbers with the rings over Marino and his numbers without them.

These are all great QB's, to have one among that list is a good thing considering the many years we endured without one. I couldn't care less if pundits want to bash Eli, he is the right QB for the Giants and he has brought us two rings so far. He is likely a first ballot HOF QB... what more do you need as a fan?

CowboysSuck
10-26-2012, 11:11 PM
Rogers: 19 TD (1st). 4 Int (23rd). 1979 yards (4th). Rushing offense ranked 24th.
Brees: 18 TD (2nd). 7 int (8th). 2097 yards (3rd). Rushing offense ranked 32nd.
Brady: 12 TD (7th). 3 int (28th). 2104 yards (2nd). Rushing offense ranked 5th.
Eli: 12 TD (7th). 7 int (8th). 2109 yards (1st). Rushing offense ranked 12th.

He's getting dusted in TD-Int ratio by the other elite QB's. It's a stat line Eli's fanatics don't like to hear and prefer to downplay it's importance. However, it is and always will be the main culprit for why he doesn't get the respect he deserves. The 4th quarter comebacks are exciting, but people overlook the fact that he's climbing out of a hole he dug up earlier in the game via turnovers or lack of efficiency in the redzone. Rogers has thrown 4 times as many TD's than Ints. Eli doesn't even have double in that regard. I understand how important he is to the team, but it's ridiculous to consider him over Rogers (as of right now) for the league MVP.

Hey hot-shot, Look at the yard totals. Eli is winning. Thats all you need to know ;)

fizzlesticks
10-26-2012, 11:15 PM
Hey hot-shot, Look at the yard totals. Eli is winning. Thats all you need to know ;)

ehhh not really, Brees is behind by a whopping 12 yards and already had his bye.