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View Full Version : Cruz/Nicks = Contract Dilemma



TuckandRolle
10-25-2012, 12:05 PM
With Cruz exploding this year the way he has, the sky seems to be getting cloudier that we can be keeping both these receivers. Sport Trac has estimated Cruz should be receiving around a 6 year 60 million dollar dear. Details explained here: http://www.spotrac.com/premium/research/nfl/the-victor-cruz-pay-day-220/

If this indeed the type of deal Cruz will be receiving, I find it very hard for us to be able to afford both Cruz and Nicks, which is extremely unfortunate. I've been wondering if the Giants will put a RFA price tag on Cruz's head at the end of this year for a price of atLEAST a 1st round draft pick, pay Nicks for a long term deal, and draft another offensive weapon...but I can't see the Giants risking the release of Cruz. Reese holds his 1st round picks close to his heart. I have no doubt they will be forced to let go of Kenny Phillips at the end of this year, will he have to let go of Nicks the year after that? 2 first round picks lost in a row to free agency?

He has some very tough decisions to make over the off season. Eli will be getting a contract restructure in the near future, JPP be up for a new deal the year after Nicks and will be EXPENSIVE, and 2 stud receivers to pay for within the next 2 years. Yes, these are good problems to have, but I can't see a way for us to keep both Nicks and Cruz. But as they say, In Reese We Trust.

TuckandRolle
10-25-2012, 12:09 PM
Ian Taubin- Twitter handle: @InReeseWeTrust, gave a great thought in regards to the contracts, stating Reese should try and offer a deal to both Nicks and Cruz around the same time for relatively the same price and HOPEfully a home team discount. Obviously an ideal situation, but who knows. Just food for thought.

Ruttiger711
10-25-2012, 12:12 PM
With Cruz exploding this year the way he has, the sky seems to be getting cloudier that we can be keeping both these receivers. Sport Trac has estimated Cruz should be receiving around a 6 year 60 million dollar dear. Details explained here: http://www.spotrac.com/premium/research/nfl/the-victor-cruz-pay-day-220/

If this indeed the type of deal Cruz will be receiving, I find it very hard for us to be able to afford both Cruz and Nicks, which is extremely unfortunate. I've been wondering if the Giants will put a RFA price tag on Cruz's head at the end of this year for a price of atLEAST a 1st round draft pick, pay Nicks for a long term deal, and draft another offensive weapon...but I can't see the Giants risking the release of Cruz. Reese holds his 1st round picks close to his heart. I have no doubt they will be forced to let go of Kenny Phillips at the end of this year, will he have to let go of Nicks the year after that? 2 first round picks lost in a row to free agency?

He has some very tough decisions to make over the off season. Eli will be getting a contract restructure in the near future, JPP be up for a new deal the year after Nicks and will be EXPENSIVE, and 2 stud receivers to pay for within the next 2 years. Yes, these are good problems to have, but I can't see a way for us to keep both Nicks and Cruz. But as they say, In Reese We Trust.

The Giants can simply not let it get to the point of Cruz getting offers from other teams. Because he WILL get a sky-high offer from some team that the Giants will have to match.

I think (hope) the Giants and Cruz will come to an agreement of about 7yr/$50 mil. He might get 10mil/yr offer(s) - but I dont beleive the giants would match that.

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 12:16 PM
7 for 7 a yr seems about what i'd expect, while it isnt the top yearly salary, it is an extended contract. thats what i would do, give him security over the majority of his career, and guarantee about 20 mil of it. ppl keep forgetting the kinda guy cruz is. i could easily see him taking a very giant friendly offer (thats still good to him).
i also feel nicks would be similar in that he knows the cruz situation and wont ask for anything crazy. i like the idea of telling both what u plan to offer and offer them both the same at a hometeam discount and see how they feel

both are gonna retire giants

Flip Empty
10-25-2012, 12:16 PM
Eli will be getting a contract restructure in the near future
Thanks to restructuring, Eli's contract is already insanely back-loaded. I don't think they'll be touching it again.

GMENAGAIN
10-25-2012, 12:17 PM
It's a good problem to have . . . too many good young players that are deserving of big salaries . . . . .

GMENAGAIN
10-25-2012, 12:20 PM
The Giants can simply not let it get to the point of Cruz getting offers from other teams. Because he WILL get a sky-high offer from some team that the Giants will have to match.

I think (hope) the Giants and Cruz will come to an agreement of about 7yr/$50 mil. He might get 10mil/yr offer(s) - but I dont beleive the giants would match that.

I don't know if the Giants would go 7 years for a WR who is currently 25. What about 4 years $30-35M with $15M guaranteed?

TuckandRolle
10-25-2012, 12:23 PM
The Giants can simply not let it get to the point of Cruz getting offers from other teams. Because he WILL get a sky-high offer from some team that the Giants will have to match.

I think (hope) the Giants and Cruz will come to an agreement of about 7yr/$50 mil. He might get 10mil/yr offer(s) - but I dont beleive the giants would match that.

Cruz is a restricted free agent, so they don't have to match offers by other teams....technically. If Cruz does sign an offer sheet from another team, depending on that offer, the Giants would receive compensation in the form of a draft pick directly correlating to the amount of the contract. If he signs a deal that would be signed by someone performing at a 1st round draft pick level, the Giants would receive a 1st round draft pick in compensation for giving up their RFA. Obviously, the Giants have the right to match an offer from another team as well... but like Ruttiger said, it's probably going to be a crazy high offer that the G-Men probably will not match (but will get a draft pick for).

Here is the definition of a Restricted Free Agent in the NFL: A restricted free agent is a player who has received a "qualifying" offer (negotiated in the CBA) from his old club, but is free to negotiate with any club through the free agent signing period. If he accepts an offer sheet from a new club, his old club can match the offer and retain him, or not match the offer and possibly receive draft-choice compensation depending on the amount of its qualifying offer.
If an offer sheet is not executed, the player’s rights revert to his old club after the free agent signing period ends.Players become restricted free agents when they complete three accrued seasons and their contract expires.

TuckandRolle
10-25-2012, 12:24 PM
Thanks to restructuring, Eli's contract is already insanely back-loaded. I don't think they'll be touching it again.

This was a minimal restructure to clear cap space for this year and replace with bonuses. He will be up soon. There were no years or new money added.

Ruttiger711
10-25-2012, 12:25 PM
I don't know if the Giants would go 7 years for a WR who is currently 25. What about 4 years $30-35M with $15M guaranteed?

4 years doesnt sound like a "RETIRING" a Giant

GMENAGAIN
10-25-2012, 12:31 PM
Cruz is a restricted free agent, so they don't have to match offers by other teams....technically. If Cruz does sign an offer sheet from another team, depending on that offer, the Giants would receive compensation in the form of a draft pick directly correlating to the amount of the contract. If he signs a deal that would be signed by someone performing at a 1st round draft pick level, the Giants would receive a 1st round draft pick in compensation for giving up their RFA. Obviously, the Giants have the right to match an offer from another team as well... but like Ruttiger said, it's probably going to be a crazy high offer that the G-Men probably will not match (but will get a draft pick for).

Here is the definition of a Restricted Free Agent in the NFL: A restricted free agent is a player who has received a "qualifying" offer (negotiated in the CBA) from his old club, but is free to negotiate with any club through the free agent signing period. If he accepts an offer sheet from a new club, his old club can match the offer and retain him, or not match the offer and possibly receive draft-choice compensation depending on the amount of its qualifying offer.
If an offer sheet is not executed, the player’s rights revert to his old club after the free agent signing period ends.Players become restricted free agents when they complete three accrued seasons and their contract expires.

Well, if they want to keep him, they would have to match the offer.

There has not been a lot of movement in restricted FA's over the past few years because the system is designed to give the advantage to the team. If the Giants give Cruz the highest qualifying offer (which I assume they would), what other team is going to give him an offer so huge that the Giants won't be able to match it AND also give the Giants a first and 3rd round pick as compensation (I think that's the compensation required for the highest qualifying offer)?

There is a reason why Mike Wallace didn't get a single nibble from another team this offseason . . .. .

TuckandRolle
10-25-2012, 12:34 PM
Mike Wallace is no Victor Cruz, I think we can all agree on that. Haha. But I see your point GMENAGAIN, I'm just curious to see how Reese handles the next couple years with 2 stud receivers. I want them both!

GMENAGAIN
10-25-2012, 12:41 PM
Mike Wallace is no Victor Cruz, I think we can all agree on that. Haha. But I see your point GMENAGAIN, I'm just curious to see how Reese handles the next couple years with 2 stud receivers. I want them both!

I agree that Wallace is no Cruz.

But it would be crazy for a team to agree to give Cruz $10M a year AND give the Giants first and third round picks as compensation. That being said, it only takes one crazy team for that to happen . . . . .

Ruttiger711
10-25-2012, 12:46 PM
That being said, it only takes one crazy team for that to happen . . . . .

YES! thats exactly why Giants absolutely need to act before it gets to the point of teams being able to offer him anything.

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 12:48 PM
Cruz is a restricted free agent, so they don't have to match offers by other teams....technically. If Cruz does sign an offer sheet from another team, depending on that offer, the Giants would receive compensation in the form of a draft pick directly correlating to the amount of the contract. If he signs a deal that would be signed by someone performing at a 1st round draft pick level, the Giants would receive a 1st round draft pick in compensation for giving up their RFA. Obviously, the Giants have the right to match an offer from another team as well... but like Ruttiger said, it's probably going to be a crazy high offer that the G-Men probably will not match (but will get a draft pick for).

Here is the definition of a Restricted Free Agent in the NFL: A restricted free agent is a player who has received a "qualifying" offer (negotiated in the CBA) from his old club, but is free to negotiate with any club through the free agent signing period. If he accepts an offer sheet from a new club, his old club can match the offer and retain him, or not match the offer and possibly receive draft-choice compensation depending on the amount of its qualifying offer.
If an offer sheet is not executed, the player’s rights revert to his old club after the free agent signing period ends.Players become restricted free agents when they complete three accrued seasons and their contract expires.
cant it be multiple picks too? i thought for wallace it was TWO first round picks??

edit-iirc it is 2 picks, not sure if it was two 1rst rounders tho for wallace for cruz it could be tho :) he is that good

GMENAGAIN
10-25-2012, 12:50 PM
YES! thats exactly why Giants absolutely need to act before it gets to the point of teams being able to offer him anything.

How do we know that they haven't acted? Maybe they've offered Cruz $8M per year and he wants $12M . . . . . the point is that we don't know what's going on, so we really can't sit here and say the Giants have to get something done right now. It takes two to tango.

Which brings up an interesting question . . . . . At what number should the Giants let Cruz go? $9M a year? $10M a year? More? Less?

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 12:51 PM
4 years doesnt sound like a "RETIRING" a Giant
that would have to be a selling point imo if we're gonna get a hometown discount. like we wont have to pay him as much per year, but we pay him an additional 2-3 yrs length on the contract (and im sure some sort of clauses can be written in to safeguard against injury or if he does something we wouldnt suspect of him)

Riverboat76
10-25-2012, 12:52 PM
Pierre Garcon - $8 million/year
Desean Jackson - $10 million/year
Vincent Jackson - over $11 million/year

He's more productive than all these guys, you really think Cruz would accept a short contract for short money when he's about to enter his prime? That would be an insult. The longer this drags out, the more these salaries are going to escalate and ultimately the more money this will cost the Giants.

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 12:53 PM
How do we know that they haven't acted? Maybe they've offered Cruz $8M per year and he wants $12M . . . . . the point is that we don't know what's going on, so we really can't sit here and say the Giants have to get something done right now. It takes two to tango.

Which brings up an interesting question . . . . . At what number should the Giants let Cruz go? $9M a year? $10M a year? More? Less?
imho, how cruz handles it determines what we do with nicks. i feel u HAVE to give cruz whatever it'd take...he's steve smith12 combined with a mike wallace bc of his consistent huge 70 plus yd plays. he is a mental match to eli unlike any other imho, eli could be a top 5 qb with cruz/bennett/randle lets say and i hate to say that bc i love me some nicks, but atm i feel cruz is 1rst in the peking order

Ruttiger711
10-25-2012, 12:55 PM
Pierre Garcon - $8 million/year
Desean Jackson - $10 million/year
Vincent Jackson - over $11 million/year

He's more productive than all these guys, you really think Cruz would accept a short contract for short money when he's about to enter his prime? That would be an insult. The longer this drags out, the more these salaries are going to escalate and ultimately the more money this will cost the Giants.

Neither of those guys are slot receivers. Giants will use that as a negotiating point.... to which Cruz and his agent will counter with the Welker arguement.

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 12:57 PM
we dont know how cruz feels either. i feel that eli and nicks help make cruz, if he feels that way too he could have a diff price range in mind. MM didnt get much, and im not saying MM is on Cruz's level but for the garcons and v.jacksons u have the MM's etc

manning to shockey
10-25-2012, 12:58 PM
I hope Cruz and Nicks both understand that they need each other along with the Giants and Eli to continue what they have going. It is not guaranteed that if you go to another team you are going to go down as an all-time great. At the current rate these two could go down as 2 of the greatest Giants to ever wear the uniform. I hope they look at more than the dollar signs.

Riverboat76
10-25-2012, 12:58 PM
Neither of those guys are slot receivers. Giants will use that as a negotiating point.... to which Cruz and his agent will counter with the Welker arguement.

Stop. Just stop.

Ruttiger711
10-25-2012, 12:59 PM
How do we know that they haven't acted? Maybe they've offered Cruz $8M per year and he wants $12M . . . . . the point is that we don't know what's going on, so we really can't sit here and say the Giants have to get something done right now. It takes two to tango.

Which brings up an interesting question . . . . . At what number should the Giants let Cruz go? $9M a year? $10M a year? More? Less?

Yeah we have no idea about who asking or whos offered what already. My statement is assuming nothing has happened yet.

I dont think the Giants touch $10 mil a year or even $9 mil for that matter.

Ruttiger711
10-25-2012, 01:00 PM
Stop. Just stop.

Stop what? You dont think this will be brought up?

Flip Empty
10-25-2012, 01:01 PM
I hope Cruz and Nicks both understand that they need each other along with the Giants and Eli to continue what they have going.
He needs Eli - yes; Nicks - no. That much has been proven by the season so far.

Ruttiger711
10-25-2012, 01:05 PM
He needs Eli - yes; Nicks - no. That much has been proven by the season so far.

Cruz's most productive games have been with Nicks on the field.

NYGabriel
10-25-2012, 01:09 PM
I hope we re-sign both but, this is football. If one of them leaves then somebody else will have to step up.

manning to shockey
10-25-2012, 01:09 PM
both Cruz and Nicks benefit from one another being on the field at the same time. I am not saying they can not have great games without the other but for long term success they need each other. This is a fact they both know already they have both talked about how important it is for the other guy to be on the field.

Riverboat76
10-25-2012, 01:14 PM
Stop what? You dont think this will be brought up?

You use slot reciever as a negative term. Im sure Jerry Reese is really going to use this "tactic" in negotiations. I'd imagine it would go something like this:

Victor's agent: "So we are looking for $10/million a year"

JR: "But, we can't pay $10/million year to a slot reciever"

Victor's agent: "a slot reciever who constantly catches 80 yard bombs"

JR: "Yeah, well, um, hmm, but but but he plays in the slot...?"

Victor's agent: "it was good talking to you Jerry but I've got to go, Daniel Snyder has his private jet waiting for us"

JR: - swallows tongue -

Flip Empty
10-25-2012, 01:16 PM
Cruz's most productive games have been with Nicks on the field.
~200 yards and four touchdowns in the games sans Nicks isn't so bad.

Obviously he's better with Nicks opposite, but it isn't essential.
The guy, like Wes Welker, is a #1. The term "slot receiver" doesn't do him justice.

RoanokeFan
10-25-2012, 01:20 PM
Ian Taubin- Twitter handle: @InReeseWeTrust, gave a great thought in regards to the contracts, stating Reese should try and offer a deal to both Nicks and Cruz around the same time for relatively the same price and HOPEfully a home team discount. Obviously an ideal situation, but who knows. Just food for thought.

I don't think they have to do anything with Nicks until next season. If that's so, we're talking about the 2014 season when it's been reported the CAP will increase. That might allow them to take care of Cruz now and Nicks next year. I don't see Reese letting Cruz or Nicks get anywhere near UFA

Ruttiger711
10-25-2012, 01:20 PM
You use slot reciever as a negative term. Im sure Jerry Reese is really going to use this "tactic" in negotiations. I'd imagine it would go something like this:

Victor's agent: "So we are looking for $10/million a year"

JR: "But, we can't pay $10/million year to a slot reciever"

Victor's agent: "a slot reciever who constantly catches 80 yard bombs"

JR: "Yeah, well, um, hmm, but but but he plays in the slot...?"

Victor's agent: "it was good talking to you Jerry but I've got to go, Daniel Snyder has his private jet waiting for us"

JR: - swallows tongue -

No I use it as an actual term... it will be used as a tool - like it or not it will happen. Its not just Jerry in there, he wont have to get his hands dirty by throwing out actual comparable salaries of slot receivers.... and Cruz agent will just throw out straight production.

Dont be fooled by all the sunshine being blown in both directions... it will be a business negotiation, the Giants WILL treat him well, they WILL NOT give him the combo to the safe.

I hope for Cruz's sake his agent doesnt open up with "catches 80 yard bombs"... Cruz is much more of a receiver than that.

RoanokeFan
10-25-2012, 01:24 PM
Neither of those guys are slot receivers. Giants will use that as a negotiating point.... to which Cruz and his agent will counter with the Welker arguement.

Cruz plays about an equal amount of time outside and in the slot.. It's this versatility that makes him so valuable

ny06
10-25-2012, 01:25 PM
Can we just enjoy the season and focus on the Cowboys this week? We will have numerous threads about Cruz and other players once the season is over.

Ruttiger711
10-25-2012, 01:26 PM
~200 yards and four touchdowns in the games sans Nicks isn't so bad.

Obviously he's better with Nicks opposite, but it isn't essential.
The guy, like Wes Welker, is a #1. The term "slot receiver" doesn't do him justice.

yeah - but you could also say avg 67yds a game without Nicks , avg 106 yds a game with Nicks.

I dont agree with the term "slot receiver" for Cruz either... I'm just saying it will be used in negotiation. Smith was a "slot" guy.

Ruttiger711
10-25-2012, 01:27 PM
Cruz plays about an equal amount of time outside and in the slot.. It's this versatility that makes him so valuable

I dont disagree.

Riverboat76
10-25-2012, 01:30 PM
No I use it as an actual term... it will be used as a tool - like it or not it will happen. Its not just Jerry in there, he wont have to get his hands dirty by throwing out actual comparable salaries of slot receivers.... and Cruz agent will just throw out straight production.

Dont be fooled by all the sunshine being blown in both directions... it will be a business negotiation, the Giants WILL treat him well, they WILL not give him the combo to the safe.

I hope for Cruz's sake his agent doesnt open up with "catches 80 yard bombs"... Cruz is much more of a receiver than that.

You're the one who keeps referring to him as a "slot reciever", I'm the one who keeps telling you that he is a complete reciever. At this point I am convinced you are trying to troll.

Ruttiger711
10-25-2012, 01:37 PM
You're the one who keeps referring to him as a "slot reciever", I'm the one who keeps telling you that he is a complete reciever. At this point I am convinced you are trying to troll.

Then you are just having comprehension issues. I'm saying they (Giants and whoever is doing the actual negotioans along w/JR) will try to label him 'just a slot guy" since that is exactly what he was brought in to do... in order to set a base price... cruz and his agent will RIGHTFULLY SO go the route of him being a complete receiver...

nhpgiantsfan
10-25-2012, 01:49 PM
It's gonna be tough. Just because they are "good guys" and not primadonas like so many other WR's in this league, doesn't mean they will offer the Giants a discount. This is their careers. And in the NFL you have to earn as much as you possibly can, because your career can be over on the very next play. Don't expect these guys to make it easy on the Giants.

blueNorange
10-25-2012, 01:52 PM
giants have tons of money coming off the books in the next 2 years

Ruttiger711
10-25-2012, 01:52 PM
Not saying its likely - but can Cruz get the franchise tag put on him?

BParcells777
10-25-2012, 01:55 PM
There is no dilemma....Cruz is younger, stronger and and Nicks is always hurt.

Also Cruz is just as good as a pure WR

Flip Empty
10-25-2012, 01:59 PM
giants have tons of money coming off the books in the next 2 years
Money that'll have to go into filling a ton of empty spots.

Most of the guys coming off contract don't earn much.

There is no dilemma....Cruz is younger, stronger and and Nicks is always hurt.

Also Cruz is just as good as a pure WR
Cruz is a year older than Nicks.

Toadofsteel
10-25-2012, 01:59 PM
I think KP is a cap casualty, as well as Diehl getting cut early if there isn't too much guaranteed on his contract that we still have to pay him...

The Notorious B.I.G BLUE
10-25-2012, 02:00 PM
I said on another site. I'd offer them the same contract! I would hope they would understand that being in NY together is a benefit to them, they have a great QB in his prime, and we throw enough for them to both do numbers.

Look @ Boldin he wanted to be the man and yeah he got his money but look at his numbers.

BParcells777
10-25-2012, 02:01 PM
Money that'll have to go into filling a ton of empty spots.

Most of the guys coming off contract don't earn much.

Cruz is a year older than Nicks.

maybe so but Nicks is always nicked up

BParcells777
10-25-2012, 02:02 PM
I think Cruz has less NFL miles on his odometer if not outright younger.........Look at Stevie Brown......he is 3-4 yrs in the league but has the spring in his step of a rookie

BParcells777
10-25-2012, 02:03 PM
we cannot afford to lose either guy.........losing Manningham was a big blow. Mario looked pretty good despite our slaughtering them

Toadofsteel
10-25-2012, 02:05 PM
we cannot afford to lose either guy.........losing Manningham was a big blow. Mario looked pretty good despite our slaughtering them

But Hixon looked better. Yeah his 2 ACL's means he can't really be a #1 starter anymore, but he's still more than servicable as a #3... Plus he knows our offense like the back of his hand, unlike mario who doesn't know any offense beyond "run out there and catch the ball"...

drewz
10-25-2012, 03:20 PM
Not saying its likely - but can Cruz get the franchise tag put on him?

He's a restricted free agent, meaning the Giants own his rights through next year

fansince69
10-25-2012, 04:28 PM
just said on franscesa...cruz has more tds than c johnson a johnson d jackson and l fittz combined

RoanokeFan
10-25-2012, 04:36 PM
just said on franscesa...cruz has more tds than c johnson a johnson d jackson and l fittz combined

Now there's a stat for negotiations lol

TuckandRolle
10-25-2012, 04:39 PM
just said on franscesa...cruz has more tds than c johnson a johnson d jackson and l fittz combined

I hate Fat Francesca, that guy has the biggest ego in all of radio. Body of work, Fitz is one of the greatest and NEVER gets hurt. Cruz was sent to IR 2 seasons ago for a leg injury. I understand Cruz deserves big money and will get big money. But I don't see him getting Calvin/Fitz money. Andre Johnson is on the massive decline and he's obviously better then Desean.

All that being said, try your best not to be blinded by Francesca's "expertise." That guy talks over every caller, misses plays on film every week, and is the most biased Giant/Yankee fan on the tri-state air waves.

You can literally hear him drooling when he talks to Manning/Cruz everytime they talk to him on Monday and Tuesday of every week.

RoanokeFan
10-25-2012, 04:46 PM
I hate Fat Francesca, that guy has the biggest ego in all of radio. Body of work, Fitz is one of the greatest and NEVER gets hurt. Cruz was sent to IR 2 seasons ago for a leg injury. I understand Cruz deserves big money and will get big money. But I don't see him getting Calvin/Fitz money. Andre Johnson is on the massive decline and he's obviously better then Desean.

All that being said, try your best not to be blinded by Francesca's "expertise." That guy talks over every caller, misses plays on film every week, and is the most biased Giant/Yankee fan on the tri-state air waves.

You can literally hear him drooling when he talks to Manning/Cruz everytime they talk to him on Monday and Tuesday of every week.

On the Cruz being sent to IR, the truth of that situation is that Tynes had a bad ankle and they needed a spot for an emergency kicker so Cruz was sacrificed. They would have preferred he be on the practice squad but realized he never would have cleared waivers.

I don't like Francessa either but either his numbers quoted are right or they aren't.

Ruttiger711
10-25-2012, 04:47 PM
Cruz was sent to IR 2 seasons ago for a leg injury.

Cruz was really put on IR so we wouldn't lose him. The New York Football Giants were just a bit shady on this one - good for us.

TuckandRolle
10-25-2012, 04:49 PM
I knowwwwww he was sent to IR for a leg injury. The leg injury was real, but EXTREMELY minor haha. I'm sure what Fran said was true about Cruz for this year. That being said, I have not the slightest idea what Reese will do about the contract...as well as Nicks.

GMENAGAIN
10-25-2012, 04:51 PM
just said on franscesa...cruz has more tds than c johnson a johnson d jackson and l fittz combined

There are other explanations for that, other than cruz is a better receiver. Andre is on the downslope of his career, Stafford and Vick have sucked this year and poor Fitz hasn't had a good QB since Warner left.

What do you think these guys would be doing if they had Eli throwing it to them??

RoanokeFan
10-25-2012, 04:52 PM
I knowwwwww he was sent to IR for a leg injury. The leg injury was real, but EXTREMELY minor haha. I'm sure what Fran said was true about Cruz for this year. That being said, I have not the slightest idea what Reese will do about the contract...as well as Nicks.

He had a hamstring and was quoted as saying, just before he went to IR, that he was ready to go back to practice. The NFL was so not sure about the "injury" they insisted an IME be undertaken.

Giants5699
10-25-2012, 04:52 PM
Canty, Diehl, and Bradshaw all will get cut. Maybe even Webster.
Rolle is going to get a restructure as well.
Cruz, Nicks will both get in the ball park of 6 years, 50 million
JPP will get a hell of a payday.

fansince69
10-25-2012, 05:27 PM
There are other explanations for that, other than cruz is a better receiver. Andre is on the downslope of his career, Stafford and Vick have sucked this year and poor Fitz hasn't had a good QB since Warner left.

What do you think these guys would be doing if they had Eli throwing it to them??
i wasnt implying anything...i just thought it seemed kind of shocking

blueNorange
10-25-2012, 05:43 PM
Canty, Diehl, and Bradshaw all will get cut. Maybe even Webster.
Rolle is going to get a restructure as well.
Cruz, Nicks will both get in the ball park of 6 years, 50 million
JPP will get a hell of a payday.
why is bradshaw getting cut if he's making nothing?

rolle has a chance of being cut

slipknottin
10-25-2012, 05:44 PM
why is bradshaw getting cut if he's making nothing?

rolle has a chance of being cut

bradshaw's cap his is 6.25 mil next year, and 6.5 in 2014.

CowboysSuck
10-25-2012, 06:19 PM
10/mil is only made by a few wideouts. Marshall, Jackson, etc.. (who are overpaid anyway) I really dont think we should pay Cruz that much and if he demands it...I would have no problem letting him walk.

GMan-67
10-25-2012, 06:23 PM
wow this board can turn anything negative

isnt the whole point to acquire the best talent you can possibly acquire

why dont we post, phew that player turned out to be a BUST and saved us big time from having a contract dilemma !!!

at least be consistent

CowboysSuck
10-25-2012, 06:29 PM
wow this board can turn anything negative

isnt the whole point to acquire the best talent you can possibly acquire

why dont we post, phew that player turned out to be a BUST and saved us big time from having a contract dilemma !!!

at least be consistent

I'm not sure what you are trying to say?

But acquiring talent doesnt mean throwing all of the money you have at 2 or 3 players. That way you have less money for Free Agency, Developing other draft picks, and awarding other players for their good play. Its math, Its not an enthusiasm "Im a huge Giants fan how could I ever be realistic" thing..

drewz
10-25-2012, 07:13 PM
Canty, Diehl, and Bradshaw all will get cut. Maybe even Webster.
Rolle is going to get a restructure as well.
Cruz, Nicks will both get in the ball park of 6 years, 50 million
JPP will get a hell of a payday.

Canty and Bradshaw aren't getting cut

Flip Empty
10-25-2012, 09:18 PM
just said on franscesa...cruz has more tds than c johnson a johnson d jackson and l fittz combined

Yeah, but so do James Jones and Heath Miller; even Andre Roberts and Santana Moss are on level pegging with Andre, Calvin and DeSean. Josh Gordon? Scott Chandler? All have the same amount of touchdowns (4) as Calvin, Andre and DeSean.

It's just a meaningless soundbite.

TextureDj
10-25-2012, 09:40 PM
Canty and Bradshaw aren't getting cutAm I misunderstanding the fact that most of these players cant even be cut to reduce their cap impact?

These signing bonuses are already paid, we are only spreading out the cap hit, its not like we can get the money back people so we still have to take the hit. Rolle could get cut tomorrow and most of his salary will still count the way I understand these restructures,

Flip Empty
10-25-2012, 10:00 PM
Am I misunderstanding the fact that most of these players cant even be cut to reduce their cap impact?

These signing bonuses are already paid, we are only spreading out the cap hit, its not like we can get the money back people so we still have to take the hit. Rolle could get cut tomorrow and most of his salary will still count the way I understand these restructures,
Exactly, it isn't as easy as just firing someone.

VBGiantsFan
10-25-2012, 10:42 PM
There is no dillema.

Cruz>>>>>>>Nicks. Pay the man to keep him.

Enough said.

I Bleed Blue
10-26-2012, 12:35 AM
Pierre Garcon - $8 million/year
Desean Jackson - $10 million/year
Vincent Jackson - over $11 million/year

He's more productive than all these guys, you really think Cruz would accept a short contract for short money when he's about to enter his prime? That would be an insult. The longer this drags out, the more these salaries are going to escalate and ultimately the more money this will cost the Giants.

Out of all the comments regarding this post, this here pretty much says it all. They have to get this done, NOW! If other teams get involved, this will spiral out of control. I never thought I would say this, but Cruz has become the bigger priority over Nicks, due to his inability to staff healthy. Justin Tuck was kept of the market and the same has to be done with Cruz. This isn't rocket science.

Rat_bastich
10-26-2012, 12:42 AM
Out of all the comments regarding this post, this here pretty much says it all. They have to get this done, NOW! If other teams get involved, this will spiral out of control. I never thought I would say this, but Cruz has become the bigger priority over Nicks, due to his inability to staff healthy. Justin Tuck was kept of the market and the same has to be done with Cruz. This isn't rocket science.

Who is Cruz' agent? The problem I see is the agent convincing Cruz to test the market. For him that is great...for us it sucks. I'm hoping that he feels an inkling to stay with the team that gave him a shot but I don't blame the guy for testing his worth in the NFL market. He has his Super Bowl and has records with the Giants.

GMan-67
10-26-2012, 12:53 AM
I'm not sure what you are trying to say?

But acquiring talent doesnt mean throwing all of the money you have at 2 or 3 players. That way you have less money for Free Agency, Developing other draft picks, and awarding other players for their good play. Its math, Its not an enthusiasm "Im a huge Giants fan how could I ever be realistic" thing..

we threw money at Nicks?, Cruz?

oh wait, you are simply anticipating that the Giants organization has no idea what it is doing ... well email them a solution

meanwhile i hope they continue to operate in the here and now and Cruz is here now and will be here next year

NEXT stoopid negative post please

giantsfan420
10-26-2012, 12:55 AM
Who is Cruz' agent? The problem I see is the agent convincing Cruz to test the market. For him that is great...for us it sucks. I'm hoping that he feels an inkling to stay with the team that gave him a shot but I don't blame the guy for testing his worth in the NFL market. He has his Super Bowl and has records with the Giants.

cruz has stated he hopes a contract can get done before the end of the season

Flip Empty
10-26-2012, 01:02 AM
cruz has stated he hopes a contract can get done before the end of the season
What a player says and what he plans on doing aren't necessarily consistent, especially when an agent is also looking to cash in.

blueNorange
10-26-2012, 01:15 AM
There is no dillema.

Cruz>>>>>>>Nicks. Pay the man to keep him.

Enough said.
i hate threads like this, people convince themselves that nicks isn't good enough to be kept so everyone forms an opinion and believe it as fact

nicks and cruz are both great players, nicks has gone facing double teams and still wins the battle. there's no db out there who can contain nicks

keep both and let them do damage one on one

greenca190
10-26-2012, 01:25 AM
give them roughly similar contracts. 5 years, 35 million. Cruz gets more guaranteed money and automatic bonuses to help for the cap. Hakeem NIcks gets more incentive based writing in his contract.

greenca190
10-26-2012, 01:28 AM
Out of all the comments regarding this post, this here pretty much says it all. They have to get this done, NOW! If other teams get involved, this will spiral out of control. I never thought I would say this, but Cruz has become the bigger priority over Nicks, due to his inability to staff healthy. Justin Tuck was kept of the market and the same has to be done with Cruz. This isn't rocket science.

contracts can be written in a variety of ways. jackson is making over 11 million this year but makes five million in various years throughout his deal.

we can dothe same for both these guys.

giantsfan420
10-26-2012, 01:58 AM
What a player says and what he plans on doing aren't necessarily consistent, especially when an agent is also looking to cash in.
i agree most times, not with cruz. he doesnt strike me llike that. im telling u guys, he has a spot in his heart for us and a big part of him feels he owes so much to eli and the giants. he'll give us a discount i'd bet anything on it. and i bet nicks does too tbh. nothing crazy, both get respectable contracts, but it will help us rather than hurt us financially the way they get it done

giantsfan420
10-26-2012, 02:00 AM
plus, with calvin johnson getting that mega deal along with several other of the top paid wrs and up there have not produced anywhere near the money they make. i believe we will see wr salaries top off and lower some

JJC7301
10-26-2012, 02:32 AM
Ian Taubin- Twitter handle: @InReeseWeTrust, gave a great thought in regards to the contracts, stating Reese should try and offer a deal to both Nicks and Cruz around the same time for relatively the same price and HOPEfully a home team discount. Obviously an ideal situation, but who knows. Just food for thought.
That's exactly what I was thinking. 2 great WRs playing with a great QB for years.

I would keep Cruz over Nicks who is pretty fragile.

gmen46
10-26-2012, 04:42 AM
give them roughly similar contracts. 5 years, 35 million. Cruz gets more guaranteed money and automatic bonuses to help for the cap. Hakeem NIcks gets more incentive based writing in his contract.

Yes, insult both of them. I'm sure they won't mind that at all.

The Jacksons have $9-10 million/year contracts, and you think Cruz and Nicks will go for 5 year/$35 million?

And Guarantee more up front to Cruz but make Nicks go through more hoops (ie, your "more incentive based writing" wording) to get his money?

Fortunately, the Giants org. doesn't take huge, steaming, craps on their star players.

giantsfan420
10-26-2012, 04:45 AM
Yes, insult both of them. I'm sure they won't mind that at all.

The Jacksons have $9-10 million/year contracts, and you think Cruz and Nicks will go for 5 year/$35 million?

And Guarantee more up front to Cruz but make Nicks go through more hoops (ie, your "more incentive based writing" wording) to get his money?

Fortunately, the Giants org. doesn't take huge, steaming, craps on their star players.

woah easy there sport. dont think any of us are qualified to claim we know how and if they'll offer contracts

Rat_bastich
10-26-2012, 04:54 AM
This whole thing is the reason I'm glad I am not a GM. Most of the time you probably have a good player or two coming up in free agency and most likely have a clear cut number one to resign leaving the other to see if they can get a deal somewhere else or gauge interest by other teams. This time it becomes more difficult. Nicks and Cruz are both integral parts of this offense and to short either one would be an insult. Not to mention but there are a bunch of other players becoming free agents as well. Glad I'm just a fan.

Captain Chaos
10-26-2012, 06:23 AM
You offer them what you can, knowing that you have JPP, Beatty and others that you have to sign. What happens...happens, you have to adjust and move on. Coefield was the last guy to go for the money.

gumby74
10-26-2012, 08:02 AM
woah easy there sport. dont think any of us are qualified to claim we know how and if they'll offer contracts I think Cruz making 7 million is fair. Nicks will definitely command more - if he's totally healthy. Cruz just doesn't have the physicality to take over a game like the Johnson, Fitz, Calvin Johnson and company do. Those kind of guys deserve top dollar.

Redeyejedi
10-26-2012, 09:03 AM
The problem is dealing with those 2 now then JPP needs to be dealt with as well. As much as I would like to keep both of them Eli has plug and played with WR's the last few years and has shown very little if any drop off. Giants have to get them at the right price. Giants must be able to maintain the depth of this roster its why they have been so good

Buddy333
10-26-2012, 09:12 AM
That's a good point. I want to see them both stay but Eli has been doing fine with whoever they put on the team. Don't forget they just drafted Randle who is supposed to be just like Nicks only bigger. As far as years to come and paying guys like JPP they will have to restructure or part ways with some of the current roster. Based on the way he has played this year Webster is owing to have to take a huge pay cut. They have to do something with Rolle. I think they are extremely lucky hat they picked up Hill. Not sure if KP will be around either. I'm not sure about all the contracts, but JPP and Joseph where drafted in the same draft. If their contracts are up at the same time that is another huge problem. We all know JPP is worth a lot and Joseph is making a name for himself as well. Canty will probably have to be let go. I'm glad I'm not the GM because I like them all and couldn't cut anyone.

joemorrisforprez
10-26-2012, 11:26 AM
With Cruz exploding this year the way he has, the sky seems to be getting cloudier that we can be keeping both these receivers. Sport Trac has estimated Cruz should be receiving around a 6 year 60 million dollar dear. Details explained here: http://www.spotrac.com/premium/research/nfl/the-victor-cruz-pay-day-220/

If this indeed the type of deal Cruz will be receiving, I find it very hard for us to be able to afford both Cruz and Nicks, which is extremely unfortunate. I've been wondering if the Giants will put a RFA price tag on Cruz's head at the end of this year for a price of atLEAST a 1st round draft pick, pay Nicks for a long term deal, and draft another offensive weapon...but I can't see the Giants risking the release of Cruz. Reese holds his 1st round picks close to his heart. I have no doubt they will be forced to let go of Kenny Phillips at the end of this year, will he have to let go of Nicks the year after that? 2 first round picks lost in a row to free agency?

He has some very tough decisions to make over the off season. Eli will be getting a contract restructure in the near future, JPP be up for a new deal the year after Nicks and will be EXPENSIVE, and 2 stud receivers to pay for within the next 2 years. Yes, these are good problems to have, but I can't see a way for us to keep both Nicks and Cruz. But as they say, In Reese We Trust.

Nicks and Cruz are two of the most important players on the team.

Reese needs to look at who is earning their paychecks, and who isn't, and structure the payrolls accordingly.

Cruz needs to be reworked before the end of the year, otherwise a team like the Redskins will make an insane offer that the Giants would need to match.

The only good thing is the Giants have the right to match, or would likely get a very high draft pick for Cruz.

JB456
10-26-2012, 11:32 AM
I think Cruz making 7 million is fair. Nicks will definitely command more - if he's totally healthy. Cruz just doesn't have the physicality to take over a game like the Johnson, Fitz, Calvin Johnson and company do. Those kind of guys deserve top dollar.

If I was Cruz's agent, I would laugh at 7 million a year. The Giants will probably have to start the negotiations around 6-7 million per year. Cruz is a gamebreaker who can play slot and on the outside. Look at his YAC. You also have to factor his age in the equation and I think more like 8-9 million a year. Who knows, that might not be enough to get a contract done and I hope it doesn't come to that.

joemorrisforprez
10-26-2012, 11:33 AM
I think Cruz making 7 million is fair. Nicks will definitely command more - if he's totally healthy. Cruz just doesn't have the physicality to take over a game like the Johnson, Fitz, Calvin Johnson and company do. Those kind of guys deserve top dollar.

I totally disagree.

The Giants have several guys on the team that are "game-changers"...... Eli Mannning, Victor Cruz, JPP, and Nicks.

Cruz is a top NFL receiver. Not saying he's the best....but he belongs in the conversation.

RoanokeFan
10-26-2012, 11:36 AM
I think Cruz making 7 million is fair. Nicks will definitely command more - if he's totally healthy. Cruz just doesn't have the physicality to take over a game like the Johnson, Fitz, Calvin Johnson and company do. Those kind of guys deserve top dollar. I just don't see that much space between Nicks and Cruz in terms of production

Ruttiger711
10-26-2012, 12:00 PM
I just don't see that much space between Nicks and Cruz in terms of production

The last snapshopt of them playing healthy together was really the playoffs and superbowl and IMO Nicks had the greater contribution. Not dramatically, but significant.

RoanokeFan
10-26-2012, 12:15 PM
The last snapshopt of them playing healthy together was really the playoffs and superbowl and IMO Nicks had the greater contribution. Not dramatically, but significant.

Reese will figure it out

njg85m
10-26-2012, 12:22 PM
Cruz really has the edge here IMO for the simple reason that he's able to either play as the #1 on the outside, or play the slot depending on what injuries or gameplans dictate, week to week.

RoanokeFan
10-26-2012, 12:29 PM
Cruz really has the edge here IMO for the simple reason that he's able to either play as the #1 on the outside, or play the slot depending on what injuries or gameplans dictate, week to week.

That, and, so far, he's more durable but I sure hope Nicks is over his injuries for good.

gumby74
10-26-2012, 02:21 PM
I just don't see that much space between Nicks and Cruz in terms of production

Both are great, but if a QB makes a throw into traffic, which WR do you think will be able to fight off defenders and position himself to catch the ball? Nicks has more physicality about him which is why if both were healthy, I think Nicks would command a higher salary.

njg85m
10-26-2012, 02:25 PM
That, and, so far, he's more durable but I sure hope Nicks is over his injuries for good.

Very true. Hakeem's injuries worry me. This season even when he's on the field he's clearly not 100%. Hope he can recover and stay healthy!

RoanokeFan
10-26-2012, 02:27 PM
Very true. Hakeem's injuries worry me. This season even when he's on the field he's clearly not 100%. Hope he can recover and stay healthy!

That's going to be the key moving on. If he can finish the season without anything else happening he will be in line for a big payday.

gumby74
10-26-2012, 02:35 PM
I totally disagree.

The Giants have several guys on the team that are "game-changers"...... Eli Mannning, Victor Cruz, JPP, and Nicks.

Cruz is a top NFL receiver. Not saying he's the best....but he belongs in the conversation.

There are plenty "game changing" WRs in the league. But what separates the cream of the crop to the rest is the physicality. Top earners for the most part are all big and physical and can make an average QB look good. If you put Victor Cruz on a mediocre team, I'm pretty sure he'd do much worse than Nicks on a mediocre team.