PDA

View Full Version : PFF Cornerback Ratings



TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 04:09 PM
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/10/25/snapshot-nfl-passer-rating-allowed-cornerbacks/

Tale of Two Corners

For as good as Amukamara’s play has been for the Giants this year, Corey Webster’s play has been equally bad. Webster has been a staple of the Giants’ defense ever since he came into the league in 2005, and his sub-par season so far has been a head scratcher. He is playing as bad a stretch as PFF has seen him play, even though he is only 30 years old. He doesn’t look like the same guy who allowed only 112 yards through four postseason games last year, as he has already given up 431 yards and hasn’t had a positive grade yet. His career success, however, suggests that he can turn his season around. If he can, it will make New York one scary team.

Toadofsteel
10-25-2012, 04:22 PM
Cant wait to see Hosley and Prince start together. We'll be an absolute FORCE then in pass defense...

Mercury
10-25-2012, 04:22 PM
I think some of it is that he wants a more aggressive DB scheme. Some of it is injuries to the DBs, including his own broken hand. Even injuries to the Dline make a difference, as Fewell was using DEs to cover for them, which means less pressure on the QB. The defense is very dependant on all its parts. I think you will see the defense improving now that guys like Canty are back, including CW.

TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 04:25 PM
The good news is that Morris Claiborne isn't as good as initially advertised. He ranks just below Webster.

Toadofsteel
10-25-2012, 04:26 PM
The good news is that Morris Claiborne isn't as good as initially advertised. He ranks just below Webster.

At least for this year...

blueNorange
10-25-2012, 04:31 PM
hosley needs to develop fast

TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 04:36 PM
hosley needs to develop fast

He had his worst game against the Redskins which I was surprised to see it happen this late honestly. He seems to struggle in man coverage as opposed to zone.

NASCARBLITZ
10-25-2012, 04:43 PM
thats great to see that draft for prince paying off, as far as webster goes the guy literaly has been playing like crap..he had the shortest prime of any career ive ever seen in football like 4 years maybe..his first 2 years he was terrible

Ntegrase96
10-25-2012, 05:21 PM
The good news is that Morris Claiborne isn't as good as initially advertised. He ranks just below Webster.

The stats aren't all that misleading, but the way that they've interpreted them is.

Claiborne has been targeted only 24 times, which is pretty good for a Rookie. They mention the Hester play, and really that's been the only play I've seen where Claiborne looked like a rookie. He surrendered another TD in which he had great position but got tangled up (and called for a PI on top of that).

And although I haven't seen all of the all 22 film, they aren't exactly holding Mo's hand out there either. Most times he's out on an island.

shotcalla39
10-25-2012, 05:48 PM
Pff is wrong Webster was terrible and labeled a bust until he finally came around in the 07 playoff run.. and has been excellent ever wince except this season

TheEnigma
10-25-2012, 05:55 PM
The stats aren't all that misleading, but the way that they've interpreted them is.

Claiborne has been targeted only 24 times, which is pretty good for a Rookie. They mention the Hester play, and really that's been the only play I've seen where Claiborne looked like a rookie. He surrendered another TD in which he had great position but got tangled up (and called for a PI on top of that).

And although I haven't seen all of the all 22 film, they aren't exactly holding Mo's hand out there either. Most times he's out on an island.

I've seen the term shutdown corner being applied to Claiborne and I don't think someone who allows 70% of passes thrown at him qualifies for that. The good news for him though is that he hasn't allowed too many yards compared to the guys on the bottom. He has his simple rookie mistakes that can be corrected in time and I expect that to happen by the end of this year/beginning of next.

Ntegrase96
10-25-2012, 06:17 PM
I've seen the term shutdown corner being applied to Claiborne and I don't think someone who allows 70% of passes thrown at him qualifies for that. The good news for him though is that he hasn't allowed too many yards compared to the guys on the bottom. He has his simple rookie mistakes that can be corrected in time and I expect that to happen by the end of this year/beginning of next.

Right, the term shut down corner is widely overused. There's only 1 shutdown corner in this league, and sometimes that title doesn't even apply. Not really many 'shut down' corners in the history of the league, really.

Watching him, it's obvious he's still getting comfortable, but outside of one play he's pretty much always in position and can play the ball well. He just usually plays it safe-- thus all the underneath stuff he's given up resulting in few yards on a high percentage of catches.

GMan-67
10-25-2012, 06:35 PM
thanks for the info

but let's cut him a break ... he's nursing a hammy and he's playing with a broken hand

plus he's made some good tackles

i fully expect him to regain his form very soon

but it does show you how this league is ... C-Web was a guy that didnt get thrown at much and for good reason ... then once there was some success throwing at him, every team started doing it

if he was 32, id be worried too, but at 30 ... nah, im going with the newer softer camp and then the hand and then the hammy, he'll be fine

oh and finally, has he been burned for a TD?? correct me, but i do not recall that ... remember we are 9th in points allowed and teams dont get points just for completing a pass vs. C-Web

Imgrate
10-25-2012, 06:56 PM
thanks for the infobut let's cut him a break ... he's nursing a hammy and he's playing with a broken handplus he's made some good tacklesi fully expect him to regain his form very soonbut it does show you how this league is ... C-Web was a guy that didnt get thrown at much and for good reason ... then once there was some success throwing at him, every team started doing itif he was 32, id be worried too, but at 30 ... nah, im going with the newer softer camp and then the hand and then the hammy, he'll be fineoh and finally, has he been burned for a TD?? correct me, but i do not recall that ... remember we are 9th in points allowed and teams dont get points just for completing a pass vs. C-WebOgletree burned him on a stop and go for a td in week one..first thing that comes to mind that was definitely his fault

moosedrool
10-25-2012, 07:38 PM
CWEB needs to pick it up soon. If not, it's good to know we have Hosley and Prince.

giantsfan420
10-25-2012, 07:47 PM
Right, the term shut down corner is widely overused. There's only 1 shutdown corner in this league, and sometimes that title doesn't even apply. Not really many 'shut down' corners in the history of the league, really.

Watching him, it's obvious he's still getting comfortable, but outside of one play he's pretty much always in position and can play the ball well. He just usually plays it safe-- thus all the underneath stuff he's given up resulting in few yards on a high percentage of catches.

how bout my offseason prediction then that MC would struggle his rookie year, something u claimed was impossible. seems silly now to make that assertion.
and how about Carr. I've discussed with a few posters here specifically after Carr has given up a play where he looks like hes better fit for midget wrestling than the NFL. Dammit I wish I could remember the wr names, but there were 3 examples of what I meant when I said he plays small. Now I havent watched every minute, but I have watched enough to see Carr at the 5th floor, and the WR going up to the 10th floor several times for TDs etc and I know u have too

stormblue
10-25-2012, 08:50 PM
in 2009 he was ranked 39th
in 2010 he was ranked 44th
in 2011 he was ranked 20th
so far this year he is ranked 98th (out of 98 CB's)

no where to go but up.

gumby74
10-25-2012, 08:54 PM
Safe to say that Webster and his 8 million dollar salary aren't going to be re-signed.

stormblue
10-25-2012, 09:04 PM
Safe to say that Webster and his 8 million dollar salary aren't going to be re-signed.

heh-heh.

BigJ
10-25-2012, 11:15 PM
I've seen the term shutdown corner being applied to Claiborne and I don't think someone who allows 70% of passes thrown at him qualifies for that. The good news for him though is that he hasn't allowed too many yards compared to the guys on the bottom. He has his simple rookie mistakes that can be corrected in time and I expect that to happen by the end of this year/beginning of next.
Well first of all, Claiborn is a Rookie I don't know y people are even comparing them two. I'm sure anyone on this message board would take Claiborn over Webster at this point and time. Claiborn has way more upside and Webster looks like one of the worst #1 corners in the league this year. I really think he use to look as good as he did because our pass rush was so insane. We didn't have a good pass rush this year until the 49ers game so I feel Webster was exposed. On a better note as of now Prince is making me eat my words and the Ice bath JPP gave him woke him up because he's playin like a beast, very happy to see and hope he is on Dez this week not CWebb

blueNorange
10-26-2012, 12:14 AM
Pff is wrong Webster was terrible and labeled a bust until he finally came around in the 07 playoff run.. and has been excellent ever wince except this season
webster was never excellent, he was good. but he always got beat by bigger receivers.

why do people get so bent out of shape when a player who was once good is showing signs of decline?

BigJ
10-26-2012, 11:18 AM
webster was never excellent, he was good. but he always got beat by bigger receivers.

why do people get so bent out of shape when a player who was once good is showing signs of decline?

U are completly right I think the same thing all the time, People on these boards get so offended when u say someone on the Giants is bad haha. I don't get it, they stick up for them till the end but in reality the guy is terrible right now. I really don't get it. Everyone is so uptight haha

stormblue
10-26-2012, 11:31 AM
he is just like blackburn....every now and then he makes a nice play
and everybody loves him and forgets the previous 20 plays that
he totally baked.

GMENAGAIN
10-26-2012, 12:12 PM
Safe to say that Webster and his 8 million dollar salary aren't going to be re-signed.

He is signed through 2013 and has a $7M salary next year. The question will be how much cap relief they will get if he is released.

My understanding is that Webster has been slowed by injuries all year, so I'm not sure that his performance thus far necessarily means that he is shot.

Ntegrase96
10-26-2012, 12:43 PM
how bout my offseason prediction then that MC would struggle his rookie year, something u claimed was impossible. seems silly now to make that assertion.
and how about Carr. I've discussed with a few posters here specifically after Carr has given up a play where he looks like hes better fit for midget wrestling than the NFL. Dammit I wish I could remember the wr names, but there were 3 examples of what I meant when I said he plays small. Now I havent watched every minute, but I have watched enough to see Carr at the 5th floor, and the WR going up to the 10th floor several times for TDs etc and I know u have too

GF420 remembers something incorrectly? No way...

I've never, ever... EVER spoken in absolute. I never guarantee that something will happen or that it won't happen. And that's not just on these boards, that's life for me in general.

I said it wasn't likely for Mo' to struggle, and in all honesty, he hasn't. So far it seems as though I may be wrong when I 'went out on a limb' and said Mo would be better than Amukamara at the end of the year... doesn't seem to be shaping up that way, but he's far from struggling. I believe outlook on Mo' has been a pretty realistic one. He would be able to play the position and have very few 'rookie moments' but not dominate. So far that's held true.

And you have 3 examples of Carr 'playing small'? 3 whole examples? Out of the 350+ snaps he's taken. That's a staggering .8 % of the time when he 'plays small'. You clearly are mistaken because Carr has only given up 1 TD this season.

BeatYale
10-26-2012, 02:08 PM
Well first of all, Claiborn is a Rookie I don't know y people are even comparing them two. I'm sure anyone on this message board would take Claiborn over Webster at this point and time. Claiborn has way more upside and Webster looks like one of the worst #1 corners in the league this year. I really think he use to look as good as he did because our pass rush was so insane. We didn't have a good pass rush this year until the 49ers game so I feel Webster was exposed. On a better note as of now Prince is making me eat my words and the Ice bath JPP gave him woke him up because he's playin like a beast, very happy to see and hope he is on Dez this week not CWebb

CB is one of the hardest positions to develop. Don't just assume Claiborne is going to Canton with David Wilson. Regardless of all that, JJ drafted him to make an immediate impact. Unfortunately for him, it's a negative impact.

I understand that pass-rush and pass-coverage compliment each other, but I think it's incorrect to assume CWebb's success was a product of our pass rush. We did rank high in sacks, but we all know sacks don't tell the whole story. Our defense, last year, actually ranked in the bottom 10 in QB pressure/hurries whatever the term is. So we weren't really harassing opposing QB's as much as people think. Sacks are the sexy stat, so the media and fans say great things about our DLine. I'm not saying they suck, but they definitely didn't generate as much pressure as a team like the Texans who ranked #1 in QB pressures last year.

joemorrisforprez
10-26-2012, 02:12 PM
Pff is wrong Webster was terrible and labeled a bust until he finally came around in the 07 playoff run.. and has been excellent ever wince except this season

Correct...I remember the board was on suicide watch going into that Tampa Bay game in 2007.

gumby74
10-26-2012, 02:12 PM
He is signed through 2013 and has a $7M salary next year. The question will be how much cap relief they will get if he is released.

My understanding is that Webster has been slowed by injuries all year, so I'm not sure that his performance thus far necessarily means that he is shot.

Yeah, i don't think anyone knows. But with Hosely and Prince coming up, it's very possible Webster is expendable as they can do an adequate job (more or less) in his place. I'd take that 7 million and then some and give it to Cruz or Nicks.

Ntegrase96
10-26-2012, 03:20 PM
CB is one of the hardest positions to develop. Don't just assume Claiborne is going to Canton with David Wilson. Regardless of all that, JJ drafted him to make an immediate impact. Unfortunately for him, it's a negative impact.



Negative impact? Claiborne is an upgrade over Newman for sure. Dallas currently only gives up the 3rd fewest passing yards per game and they rank in the top 10 overall in pass defense, even without our best starting safety.

These grades are very very helpful, but need to be taken into context and interpreted correctly.

blueNorange
10-26-2012, 03:34 PM
Yeah, i don't think anyone knows. But with Hosely and Prince coming up, it's very possible Webster is expendable as they can do an adequate job (more or less) in his place. I'd take that 7 million and then some and give it to Cruz or Nicks.

prince and hosley starting and hill as your nickel

JayMillah
10-26-2012, 03:40 PM
CB is one of the hardest positions to develop. Don't just assume Claiborne is going to Canton with David Wilson. Regardless of all that, JJ drafted him to make an immediate impact. Unfortunately for him, it's a negative impact.

I understand that pass-rush and pass-coverage compliment each other, but I think it's incorrect to assume CWebb's success was a product of our pass rush. We did rank high in sacks, but we all know sacks don't tell the whole story. Our defense, last year, actually ranked in the bottom 10 in QB pressure/hurries whatever the term is. So we weren't really harassing opposing QB's as much as people think. Sacks are the sexy stat, so the media and fans say great things about our DLine. I'm not saying they suck, but they definitely didn't generate as much pressure as a team like the Texans who ranked #1 in QB pressures last year.

200 yards, 40 of those and a TD came off a bogus OPI from Smith. I'd say 24 targets in 6 games with an average of 2.3 completions per game and ~35 yards is pretty damn good for a rookie.

TheEnigma
10-26-2012, 03:44 PM
Negative impact? Claiborne is an upgrade over Newman for sure. Dallas currently only gives up the 3rd fewest passing yards per game and they rank in the top 10 overall in pass defense, even without our best starting safety.

These grades are very very helpful, but need to be taken into context and interpreted correctly.

Not sure I'd say negative impact either because even though Claiborne's NFL QB rating is worse than Webster's, the NFL system doesn't put in enough weight into the Yards category that MC clearly beats Webster on. He's not allowing nearly as many big plays as Webster as this season but one could argue that the loss of Kenny Phillips has sort of lead to that occurring more frequently.

Anyway, he's a top 10 selection who was also the top CB of the 2012 class and he's a Dallas Cowboy. He's going to get additional hype he doesn't deserve at times but on that same note, he has a ton of detractors based on what I just listed earlier. Having another good game against the Giants would go a long way in keeping the criticism quiet.

BeatYale
10-26-2012, 04:33 PM
200 yards, 40 of those and a TD came off a bogus OPI from Smith. I'd say 24 targets in 6 games with an average of 2.3 completions per game and ~35 yards is pretty damn good for a rookie.

Yeah my mistake I didn't read the article, Just glanced at the rankings. I was basing it off the high completion % against him and the 21 points he's given up. I figured the targets were low because he got benched, but I guess not.

Captain Chaos
10-26-2012, 07:20 PM
Lets see what Webster's stats look like once they start pressing the WRs....

penguinfarmer
10-26-2012, 09:36 PM
It's odd. Webster isn't struggling because he's slowed by injury/age/whatever. He's just making some horrible reads and making some undisciplined plays that vets aren't supposed to be making similar to what Prince was doing in that one preseason struggle. I find solace in the fact that these can be corrected, but I'm just curious as to what was going on.

CowboysSuck
10-26-2012, 11:15 PM
thats great to see that draft for prince paying off, as far as webster goes the guy literaly has been playing like crap..he had the shortest prime of any career ive ever seen in football like 4 years maybe..his first 2 years he was terrible

Huh? How can you say that when the average NFL career (in total) is barely 4 years?

CowboysSuck
10-26-2012, 11:17 PM
I'd like to mention also that I have seen a large amount of plays converted on CWebb while he was playing extremely soffttttt coverage. Like 10 yards off the reciever and also backpedaling at the snap. Its definitely a headscratcher, but as you can see from my Avatar im a big fan of his and I think he can turn it around. I'll love him forever for picking off Favre in that NFCCG.

BigJ
10-27-2012, 12:59 AM
CB is one of the hardest positions to develop. Don't just assume Claiborne is going to Canton with David Wilson. Regardless of all that, JJ drafted him to make an immediate impact. Unfortunately for him, it's a negative impact.

I understand that pass-rush and pass-coverage compliment each other, but I think it's incorrect to assume CWebb's success was a product of our pass rush. We did rank high in sacks, but we all know sacks don't tell the whole story. Our defense, last year, actually ranked in the bottom 10 in QB pressure/hurries whatever the term is. So we weren't really harassing opposing QB's as much as people think. Sacks are the sexy stat, so the media and fans say great things about our DLine. I'm not saying they suck, but they definitely didn't generate as much pressure as a team like the Texans who ranked #1 in QB pressures last year.
Yea I'm not sayin Claiborn is HOF but as u have seen he has not been a negative impact, the funny thing is we are comparing our Veteran #1 conerback of the superbowl champs to a #2 Rookie Conerback that has only played 7 games in the NFL. We shouldn't even be comparing . I hope Cwebb is playing better then him but the fact is, he isn't.

RagTime Blue
10-27-2012, 01:48 AM
Look at the number of targets, and what does that say? They're picking on him. Claiborne's had a similar number of snaps and much fewer targets.