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View Full Version : DeAngelo Hall is correct in what he said.



thomsoad
10-26-2012, 11:49 AM
On the chalkboard im sure the play was supposed to be covered.
I dont doubt that.
However in the famous words of Tom Landry "The only problem with my game plans are the players".

Mohann
10-26-2012, 12:00 PM
So?

OX1
10-26-2012, 12:04 PM
On the chalkboard im sure the play was supposed to be covered.
I dont doubt that.
However in the famous words of Tom Landry "The only problem with my game plans are the players".

Cruz is not coverable in that situtation when he and Eli are on the same page.
The defender does not know if Cruz will act like he is
running full speed, then stop short and run back 3 yards
(hence defender tries to get over top and is out of positon).

Or he does run full speed and defender thinks he might stop short
and he doesn't, hence defender is behind.

The 3rd problem for defenders, is that even if they guess right AND have double coverage,
Cruz comes down with it many times anyway (although I can't stand those throws when Eli
makes them).

There is no play designed to cover all those options at the same time.

thomsoad
10-26-2012, 12:04 PM
So...the point is the Redskins Fd up...and we won.

thomsoad
10-26-2012, 12:06 PM
Cruz is not coverable in that situtation when he and Eli are on the same page.
The defender does not know if Cruz will act like he is
running full speed, then stop short and run back 3 yards
(hence defender tries to get over top and is out of positon).

Or he does run full speed and defender thinks he might stop short
and he doesn't, hence defender is behind.

The 3rd problem for defenders, is that even if they guess right AND have double coverage,
Cruz comes down with it many times anyway (although I can't stand those throws when Eli
makes them).

There is no play designed to cover all those options at the same time.

The designed coverage im sure was to have the safety playing from behind. I doubt the Redskins playcall was designed for a WR to get behind the safety in a 2 minute drill.

yoeddy
10-26-2012, 12:10 PM
Am looking forward to more gifts from DeAngelo Hall in the future...

The Notorious B.I.G BLUE
10-26-2012, 12:13 PM
My problem with that logic is...that can be use to explain away any play!!

On RG's touch down to Moss Hosley was suppose to be man to man with Rolle playing safety over the top. Using Hall's logic we gave away that play to because it should have been covered.

It's a joke! This whole we beat ourselves BS every team is using these days is just corny apparently nobody loses these days.

thomsoad
10-26-2012, 12:14 PM
My problem with that logic is...that can be use to explain away any play!!

On RG's touch down to Moss Hosley was suppose to be man to man with Rolle playing safety over the top. Using Hall's logic we gave away that play to because it should have been covered.

It's a joke! This whole we beat ourselves BS every team is using these days is just corny apparently nobody loses these days.

Exactly. Thats why every team says it ... including us.

stormblue
10-26-2012, 12:17 PM
Cruz is not coverable in that situtation when he and Eli are on the same page.
The defender does not know if Cruz will act like he is
running full speed, then stop short and run back 3 yards
(hence defender tries to get over top and is out of positon).

Or he does run full speed and defender thinks he might stop short
and he doesn't, hence defender is behind.

The 3rd problem for defenders, is that even if they guess right AND have double coverage,
Cruz comes down with it many times anyway (although I can't stand those throws when Eli
makes them).

There is no play designed to cover all those options at the same time.

yes , all that is true for the CB.

but in that game situation the Safety must stay between the WR
and the end zone.he can not let the WR get behind him.
even if he has to commit a foul....better than yielding the winning TD.
it was absolutely the safety's bad on that play.

Ruttiger711
10-26-2012, 12:25 PM
Cruz is not coverable in that situtation when he and Eli are on the same page.
The defender does not know if Cruz will act like he is
running full speed, then stop short and run back 3 yards
(hence defender tries to get over top and is out of positon).

Or he does run full speed and defender thinks he might stop short
and he doesn't, hence defender is behind.

The 3rd problem for defenders, is that even if they guess right AND have double coverage,
Cruz comes down with it many times anyway (although I can't stand those throws when Eli
makes them).

There is no play designed to cover all those options at the same time.

Both Nicks and Cruz had double coverage ... Hall was one on one with Hixon.

From what I saw the safety was not expecting Cruz to just "go" and was caught flat footed - he was toast. The Skins could live with underneath completions, they really f'ed up by assuming the Giants would just go for what the Skins could live with...dummies.

Hall's also right in saying HE could have thrown that touchdown.... quite frankly MOST receivers catch that ball and score....

What makes that play is Eli and Cruz seeing the same thing at the same time... thats preparation - THATS what made it look simple... THATS what sets this apart from just a throw and a catch like Hall is making it out to be.

GameTime
10-26-2012, 01:04 PM
On the chalkboard im sure the play was supposed to be covered.
I dont doubt that.
However in the famous words of Tom Landry "The only problem with my game plans are the players".

a couple of things....
Cruz gave a slight fake for an outside move then just bolted. So they/he bit on the fake and then out ran two defenders. So they ****ed up BUT Cruz made them **** up....thats what a good offensive play is supposed to do.

thomsoad
10-26-2012, 01:16 PM
a couple of things....
Cruz gave a slight fake for an outside move then just bolted. So they/he bit on the fake and then out ran two defenders. So they ****ed up BUT Cruz made them **** up....thats what a good offensive play is supposed to do.

I agree with you 100%
But the actual play itself is designed for the safety to be between Cruz and the endzone.
Its the safety that f'd up...not the designed play.
Thats why i am saying Hall is correct in what he said.

That or we are to believe that we designed a fool proof TD pass play that for some reason we rarely run.
Not sure what some people of getting all amped up about.
Almost all the X's and O's are virtually the same in every locker room.
The difference is preperation and execution.

Unless someone else can explain to me why Spags system worked so well here but not in St Louis or New Oreans?
Cuz he sure as hell didnt change his entire playbook when he left here.

BeatYale
10-26-2012, 01:18 PM
Why is this still a hot topic?

thomsoad
10-26-2012, 01:20 PM
Why is this still a hot topic?

I think its an interesting topic becuz so many people are so offended by Halls comments.

RoanokeFan
10-26-2012, 01:21 PM
My problem with that logic is...that can be use to explain away any play!!

On RG's touch down to Moss Hosley was suppose to be man to man with Rolle playing safety over the top. Using Hall's logic we gave away that play to because it should have been covered.

It's a joke! This whole we beat ourselves BS every team is using these days is just corny apparently nobody loses these days.

The difference is Hosley admitted he messed up. No whining, no excuses. They made a play and we didn't.

GameTime
10-26-2012, 01:29 PM
I agree with you 100%
But the actual play itself is designed for the safety to be between Cruz and the endzone.
Its the safety that f'd up...not the designed play.
Thats why i am saying Hall is correct in what he said.

That or we are to believe that we designed a fool proof TD pass play that for some reason we rarely run.
Not sure what some people of getting all amped up about.
Almost all the X's and O's are virtually the same in every locker room.
The difference is preperation and execution.

Unless someone else can explain to me why Spags system worked so well here but not in St Louis or New Oreans?
Cuz he sure as hell didnt change his entire playbook when he left here.
every play is supposed to work...
so Hall is only right by default.....its still bull**** in my book.....

GameTime
10-26-2012, 01:30 PM
I think its an interesting topic becuz so many people are so offended by Halls comments.
offended???? I laughed just like Eli did....
it was a joke of a statement with no merit.....

njg85m
10-26-2012, 01:37 PM
He said that he could have made that pass?
Wheres the huge :rolleyes: when you need it?

Yeah, OK Deangelo....

Mohann
10-26-2012, 02:29 PM
I think its an interesting topic becuz so many people are so offended by Halls comments.

Ah, you're trolling. I get it now.

GMENAGAIN
10-26-2012, 02:47 PM
On the chalkboard im sure the play was supposed to be covered.
I dont doubt that.
However in the famous words of Tom Landry "The only problem with my game plans are the players".

I don't get this at all. On the chalboard every play is suposed to be covered.

egyptian420
10-26-2012, 02:48 PM
Let's hope Claiborne and Carr are correct this Sunday too

Rudyy
10-26-2012, 03:03 PM
Nobody seemed offended on here.

Ruttiger711
10-26-2012, 03:13 PM
a couple of things....
Cruz gave a slight fake for an outside move then just bolted. So they/he bit on the fake and then out ran two defenders. So they ****ed up BUT Cruz made them **** up....thats what a good offensive play is supposed to do.

I saw it different - Cruz did a quick move outside to get himself in position to run between the inside and outside guy he just bolted from that point- he didnt juke them out of position or anything...the corner was playing underneath so he cant be "outrun" the safety was high and was waiting and waiting for Cruz to cut over the corner and under the saftey, by the time he realized Cruz's intention was just to RUN they were practically level and he had no chance...

so yeah i agree thats what a good offensive play is supposed to do - but it wasnt cruz faking the db's out of their shoes that made it possible....

JB456
10-26-2012, 03:56 PM
My problem with that logic is...that can be use to explain away any play!!

On RG's touch down to Moss Hosley was suppose to be man to man with Rolle playing safety over the top. Using Hall's logic we gave away that play to because it should have been covered.

It's a joke! This whole we beat ourselves BS every team is using these days is just corny apparently nobody loses these days.

Isn't funny how it seems that the Giants are the only team that can man up and admit they got beat but so many opposing players say they beat themselves? I am so glad I was brought up to root for this classy organization instead of one that makes up excuses. Hall is really showing low character by making a statement like this. What happened to honor and respect? Today's society is breading some real dirtbags.

FlyingTruck
10-26-2012, 04:13 PM
On the chalkboard im sure the play was supposed to be covered.
I dont doubt that.
However in the famous words of Tom Landry "The only problem with my game plans are the players".
"On the chalkboard im sure the play was supposed to be covered.
It was supposed to be covered?!
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/210/119/+_2acc5a8841f8752904d37f90a8014829.png?1322693145

jomo
10-26-2012, 04:31 PM
On the chalkboard im sure the play was supposed to be covered.
I dont doubt that.
However in the famous words of Tom Landry "The only problem with my game plans are the players".Hall is talking about something as meaningless as this because he doesn't want to talk about his team losing to us.

CowboysSuck
10-26-2012, 04:32 PM
Cruz is not coverable in that situtation when he and Eli are on the same page.
The defender does not know if Cruz will act like he is
running full speed, then stop short and run back 3 yards
(hence defender tries to get over top and is out of positon).

Or he does run full speed and defender thinks he might stop short
and he doesn't, hence defender is behind.

The 3rd problem for defenders, is that even if they guess right AND have double coverage,
Cruz comes down with it many times anyway (although I can't stand those throws when Eli
makes them).

There is no play designed to cover all those options at the same time.

Why all the weird margins? You cant just type normally and take up the whole page?

JesseJames
10-26-2012, 04:58 PM
the position is called "safety" for a reason, last line of defense ...

Rudyy
10-26-2012, 05:27 PM
Regardless of whether it was an incredible Mario Manningham Super Bowl catch play or not, we made the play, and they didn't do their job.

BParcells777
10-26-2012, 05:33 PM
maybe DeAngelo Hall has been hit in the head too many times.......what is his point?

they purposely made a mental error? FK DeAngelo Hall..........and he must have forgot he has to play us again in a few weeks

I predict they will pick on him

giantsfan420
10-26-2012, 05:39 PM
I saw it different - Cruz did a quick move outside to get himself in position to run between the inside and outside guy he just bolted from that point- he didnt juke them out of position or anything...the corner was playing underneath so he cant be "outrun" the safety was high and was waiting and waiting for Cruz to cut over the corner and under the saftey, by the time he realized Cruz's intention was just to RUN they were practically level and he had no chance...

so yeah i agree thats what a good offensive play is supposed to do - but it wasnt cruz faking the db's out of their shoes that made it possible....

ur wrong tho in a way bc it WAS cruz faking the db's throughout the game that setup that last strike.

thats what d.hall fails to realize bc he's a moron. that td play was a result of the entire day of cruz mixing up going inside and outside. the double coverage was more than two guys lining up directly w cruz at the los and running with him. the safety was actually shaded outside of cruz, trying to fool eli i guess into misreading the double coverage. the db across cruz was using inside contain to remove elis throwing lane if cruz broke inside. the safety was playing outside contain to take away the throw if cruz broke outside. and they did so bc thats what they were a)coached to do and b) had seen cruz run those type routes all game (except for one when he actually burned the coverage the same way and eli slightly overthrew him earlier in the game).
it was a well time wrinkle to what we ran that whole day, hence he was able to "split" the coverage bc they were never entertaining the notion cruz would go deep, again, which is coaching. basically, cruz is uncoverable bc he always will have the option to read the D and adjust his route, and its so lethal bc eli is always on the same page.

d.hall is full a ****. and i laughed my *** off when i heard elis response. it was one thing to read it, but when u actually see his response, it was way funnier. everyone who was near him was laughing their *** off as well. and frankly, eli didnt go into depth bc he doesnt need to. it will all be on tape for the redskins to see as much as they'd like.

Giantz4Life
10-26-2012, 05:45 PM
On the chalkboard im sure the play was supposed to be covered.

Post of the year!

Captain Chaos
10-26-2012, 06:09 PM
I thought we were done with Hall, at least until we play the again... Lets get on with Dallas!

Ruttiger711
10-26-2012, 07:29 PM
ur wrong tho in a way bc it WAS cruz faking the db's throughout the game that setup that last strike.

thats what d.hall fails to realize bc he's a moron. that td play was a result of the entire day of cruz mixing up going inside and outside. the double coverage was more than two guys lining up directly w cruz at the los and running with him. the safety was actually shaded outside of cruz, trying to fool eli i guess into misreading the double coverage. the db across cruz was using inside contain to remove elis throwing lane if cruz broke inside. the safety was playing outside contain to take away the throw if cruz broke outside. and they did so bc thats what they were a)coached to do and b) had seen cruz run those type routes all game (except for one when he actually burned the coverage the same way and eli slightly overthrew him earlier in the game).
it was a well time wrinkle to what we ran that whole day, hence he was able to "split" the coverage bc they were never entertaining the notion cruz would go deep, again, which is coaching. basically, cruz is uncoverable bc he always will have the option to read the D and adjust his route, and its so lethal bc eli is always on the same page.

d.hall is full a ****. and i laughed my *** off when i heard elis response. it was one thing to read it, but when u actually see his response, it was way funnier. everyone who was near him was laughing their *** off as well. and frankly, eli didnt go into depth bc he doesnt need to. it will all be on tape for the redskins to see as much as they'd like.

Yeah I see what you're saying about the setup during the plays prior - that most definitely had an effect.

Eli and Cruz saw the same thing and knew the deal if they saw inside/out. Of course the execution of the throw and catch has to happen but this was a shining example of coaching and preparation.

BParcells777
10-26-2012, 07:49 PM
I thought we were done with Hall, at least until we play the again... Lets get on with Dallas!

thats my point......they will play us again fairly soon.......Hall was a moron to make that comment

Rat_bastich
10-26-2012, 08:12 PM
I think the whole problem with the statement he made was more about it being DeAngelo Hall making it. If he would have reworded it..say..."Hats off to the Giants, we just didn't play up to our ability and they took advantage of it" it would've been more digestible. His problem is that he has never been an eloquent guy and he went into too much detail. He should've just left it alone.

Football, as with any sport, is about exploiting a team's weakness. Either a reoccuring weakness or one that pops up. Thats why teams throw at rookie corners alot. It is not unfair, it is just exploiting a possible weakness. When a corner makes a bad break or is trailing in coverage, a good quarterback with vision takes advantage of it. Kind of like a cheetah taking down a weak gazelle instead of a strong and fast one. Eli was just being a predator.

giantsfan420
10-26-2012, 08:41 PM
Yeah I see what you're saying about the setup during the plays prior - that most definitely had an effect.

Eli and Cruz saw the same thing and knew the deal if they saw inside/out. Of course the execution of the throw and catch has to happen but this was a shining example of coaching and preparation.

the ironic thing is that it was actually the way washington defended the play that created the opportunity for cruz. they were double teaming with the sole focus of taking away the inside and outside breaking option route. lol theres really only one way to go from there and we saw that play out

TextureDj
10-26-2012, 08:47 PM
ur wrong tho in a way bc it WAS cruz faking the db's throughout the game that setup that last strike.

thats what d.hall fails to realize bc he's a moron. that td play was a result of the entire day of cruz mixing up going inside and outside. the double coverage was more than two guys lining up directly w cruz at the los and running with him. the safety was actually shaded outside of cruz, trying to fool eli i guess into misreading the double coverage. the db across cruz was using inside contain to remove elis throwing lane if cruz broke inside. the safety was playing outside contain to take away the throw if cruz broke outside. and they did so bc thats what they were a)coached to do and b) had seen cruz run those type routes all game (except for one when he actually burned the coverage the same way and eli slightly overthrew him earlier in the game).
it was a well time wrinkle to what we ran that whole day, hence he was able to "split" the coverage bc they were never entertaining the notion cruz would go deep, again, which is coaching. basically, cruz is uncoverable bc he always will have the option to read the D and adjust his route, and its so lethal bc eli is always on the same page.

d.hall is full a ****. and i laughed my *** off when i heard elis response. it was one thing to read it, but when u actually see his response, it was way funnier. everyone who was near him was laughing their *** off as well. and frankly, eli didnt go into depth bc he doesnt need to. it will all be on tape for the redskins to see as much as they'd like.

And this is why this offense is so potent at the end of games. You have this mental softening up of defenses, to the point they are crying in front of cameras that there is no way to cover these receivers, "I go left he go right" sound familiar?

People always say go to the 2 minute more often, but without a whole game of option routes to get the D's head spinning the 2min drill just wouldnt be the same. You option route them to death all half, but with a veiled conservatism, until the end of said half when you pull the real ballsy option out of your back pocket.

Works great, but like its been said in here, it requires herculean preparation, practice, and communication.

Diamondring
10-26-2012, 09:31 PM
Hall don't know what he is talking about. He did what he suppose to do but Cruz did more than Hall anticipated

giantsfan420
10-26-2012, 10:44 PM
And this is why this offense is so potent at the end of games. You have this mental softening up of defenses, to the point they are crying in front of cameras that there is no way to cover these receivers, "I go left he go right" sound familiar?

People always say go to the 2 minute more often, but without a whole game of option routes to get the D's head spinning the 2min drill just wouldnt be the same. You option route them to death all half, but with a veiled conservatism, until the end of said half when you pull the real ballsy option out of your back pocket.

Works great, but like its been said in here, it requires herculean preparation, practice, and communication.
i didnt know how to word it but u said it perfectly. its like we wait to unleash the big time play based off setup plays earlier throughout the game for when we really need it. and it is unstoppable IF and WHEN eli/cruz are on the same page...or eli/any receiver for that matter

OX1
10-26-2012, 11:03 PM
ur wrong tho in a way bc it WAS cruz faking the db's throughout the game that setup that last strike.

thats what d.hall fails to realize bc he's a moron. that td play was a result of the entire day of cruz mixing up going inside and outside. the double coverage was more than two guys lining up directly w cruz at the los and running with him. the safety was actually shaded outside of cruz, trying to fool eli i guess into misreading the double coverage. the db across cruz was using inside contain to remove elis throwing lane if cruz broke inside. the safety was playing outside contain to take away the throw if cruz broke outside. and they did so bc thats what they were a)coached to do and b) had seen cruz run those type routes all game (except for one when he actually burned the coverage the same way and eli slightly overthrew him earlier in the game).
it was a well time wrinkle to what we ran that whole day, hence he was able to "split" the coverage bc they were never entertaining the notion cruz would go deep, again, which is coaching. basically, cruz is uncoverable bc he always will have the option to read the D and adjust his route, and its so lethal bc eli is always on the same page.

d.hall is full a ****. and i laughed my *** off when i heard elis response. it was one thing to read it, but when u actually see his response, it was way funnier. everyone who was near him was laughing their *** off as well. and frankly, eli didnt go into depth bc he doesnt need to. it will all be on tape for the redskins to see as much as they'd like.

Exactly, but you said it better than I. Niners found this out last year.

B&RWarrior
10-26-2012, 11:20 PM
The designed coverage im sure was to have the safety playing from behind. I doubt the Redskins playcall was designed for a WR to get behind the safety in a 2 minute drill.

Yeah I'm sure designed coverage was not to play the short route aggressively.

GMan-67
10-27-2012, 04:06 AM
the play was actually double covered and Cruz beat/split the double coverge

and all plays are covered on the chalk board ... that's why you find talent like Cruz and Eli ... they laugh at chalk boards

Rat_bastich
10-27-2012, 04:46 AM
the play was actually double covered and Cruz beat/split the double coverge

and all plays are covered on the chalk board ... that's why you find talent like Cruz and Eli ... they laugh at chalk boards

Thats what Eric Mangini was showing on ESPN earlier yesterday. He showed how difficult Cruz makes it on the defense. It seems no matter what they try...safety over the top, bump and press or whatever Cruz seems to be able to adjust and make the play. Hell he even makes blocks.

One of the things I found interesting was that Mortensen was saying the only reason he was invited to try out with the Giants was that he only lived 30 minutes away from the stadium. Not sure how true that is, but talk about a lucky break.

GameTime
10-27-2012, 08:32 AM
I saw it different - Cruz did a quick move outside to get himself in position to run between the inside and outside guy he just bolted from that point- he didnt juke them out of position or anything...the corner was playing underneath so he cant be "outrun" the safety was high and was waiting and waiting for Cruz to cut over the corner and under the saftey, by the time he realized Cruz's intention was just to RUN they were practically level and he had no chance...

so yeah i agree thats what a good offensive play is supposed to do - but it wasnt cruz faking the db's out of their shoes that made it possible....

I said he made I slight outside move fake....thats not faking a DB out of his shoes but its showing intention like you said. Just like an LB getting frozen for 1 second on play action. What Cruz did had the same effect. Thats all he needed,

giantsfan420
10-27-2012, 10:27 AM
Thats what Eric Mangini was showing on ESPN earlier yesterday. He showed how difficult Cruz makes it on the defense. It seems no matter what they try...safety over the top, bump and press or whatever Cruz seems to be able to adjust and make the play. Hell he even makes blocks.

One of the things I found interesting was that Mortensen was saying the only reason he was invited to try out with the Giants was that he only lived 30 minutes away from the stadium. Not sure how true that is, but talk about a lucky break.
it is true. see there is a rule that u can invite unlimited (iirc, it could be 30 person limit) number of local players bc theyre local. cruz was from paterson and went to Umass, he was considered a "local" player, so it cost the giants nothing to bring him in for a workout, which is pretty damn lucky for cruz but at the same time it was a rule on the books for a while...

tcseacliff
10-27-2012, 12:17 PM
So...the point is the Redskins Fd up...and we won.

LOL! this site needs a "LIKE" button! this I LIKED! (because it is true) DeAngelo-EAT IT! learn from it!

CDN_G-FAN
10-27-2012, 12:25 PM
i don't know why everyone got so bunged up about what Hall said, he was right, there's no way the coverage was anything other than the safety staying over the top.

saying that was a busted the coverage doesn't change the W to a L, so i don't know what the hell fire problem is with saying the Redskins screwed up?

we would have lost the SB last year if Welker doesn't drop the ball. We probably would have beat the Eagles in that brutal comeback if Dodge kicks it out of bounds, or manningham catches any of the 2 drops he had on 3rd downs.

as Al Pacino said: "that's football fellas. that's all it is".

giantsfan420
10-27-2012, 01:08 PM
i don't know why everyone got so bunged up about what Hall said, he was right, there's no way the coverage was anything other than the safety staying over the top.

saying that was a busted the coverage doesn't change the W to a L, so i don't know what the hell fire problem is with saying the Redskins screwed up?

we would have lost the SB last year if Welker doesn't drop the ball. We probably would have beat the Eagles in that brutal comeback if Dodge kicks it out of bounds, or manningham catches any of the 2 drops he had on 3rd downs.

as Al Pacino said: "that's football fellas. that's all it is".
not tryin to single u out but ur assessment is wrong. it wasnt merely a case of "having a safety over the top". washington was trying to be coy, confuse eli and bait him into throwing to cruz making his patented option in/out route. the safety had outside contain to take away cruz on an outbreaking route. the corner had inside contain, to take away cruz on an inside breaking route.
the ironic thing is that their D was what forced cruz to run a go. it wasnt "busted" coverage. it was washington trying to take away a staple to our offense we ran throughout the entirety of the game and every game, the cruz option route.
cruz simply read the D correctly as did eli, and the play resulted in a TD. it wasnt like the two washington defenders didnt defend that play as they were coached to.
its simple; carlos rogers said it best. theres no defense for the option route when the wr/qb are on the same page

Fharcyde
10-27-2012, 03:14 PM
Eli had enough time to get down the field regardless.