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View Full Version : I know I wasn't the only person that saw this coming. (NO KILLER INSTINCT)



DragonSoul
10-28-2012, 08:42 PM
It was great how our defense made plays early (thankfully). Once it got out of hand, everyone went to lunch. Generally the whole offense started their lunch break from the snap... Cannot stand the safe play calls. We did it in SF at times and again in Dallas. I saw them trying to give up just before the half, but we didnt allow it.

Then 2nd half, they all took off. Defense was aggressive, then stopped. At the end they ratcheted it up and it made a difference. Why is it so hard to have the KILLER INSTINCT ffs.... You knew once they got close, then they would play solid, but it nearly cost us a game we had after 8 mins.

Sad state of affairs, but thankfully we ran away with the win.

RagTime Blue
10-28-2012, 08:43 PM
I don't like to see us play like that, but if it's going to get ugly, at least we get the "W", and live to see another day.

Also hoping Blackburn is ok, and we have no significant injuries.

NEXT GAME!!

DragonSoul
10-28-2012, 09:06 PM
Agreed. I will take an ugly win vs an ugly lose anytime as we did last week.

Sarcasman
10-28-2012, 09:15 PM
It was great how our defense made plays early (thankfully). Once it got out of hand, everyone went to lunch. Generally the whole offense started their lunch break from the snap... Cannot stand the safe play calls. We did it in SF at times and again in Dallas. I saw them trying to give up just before the half, but we didnt allow it.

Then 2nd half, they all took off. Defense was aggressive, then stopped. At the end they ratcheted it up and it made a difference. Why is it so hard to have the KILLER INSTINCT ffs.... You knew once they got close, then they would play solid, but it nearly cost us a game we had after 8 mins.

Sad state of affairs, but thankfully we ran away with the win.


Looked to me that the defensive vacation started in the 2nd quarter, not the 2nd half.

The offense sucked the whole game.

tonyt830
10-28-2012, 09:19 PM
It was great how our defense made plays early (thankfully). Once it got out of hand, everyone went to lunch. Generally the whole offense started their lunch break from the snap... Cannot stand the safe play calls. We did it in SF at times and again in Dallas. I saw them trying to give up just before the half, but we didnt allow it.

Then 2nd half, they all took off. Defense was aggressive, then stopped. At the end they ratcheted it up and it made a difference. Why is it so hard to have the KILLER INSTINCT ffs.... You knew once they got close, then they would play solid, but it nearly cost us a game we had after 8 mins.

Sad state of affairs, but thankfully we ran away with the win.though I agree with you for the most part, you know some of the kool aid drinking, Giants can do no wrong, homers may get upset at your post---LOL!!!

I would have liked to see more redzone TDs off of those turnovers and a better run game. But I will take the ugly win!

The Notorious B.I.G BLUE
10-28-2012, 09:21 PM
Looked to me that the defensive vacation started in the 2nd quarter, not the 2nd half.

The offense sucked the whole game.
We went to that soft zone to protect the lead.

Play Dallas man to man with safety help blitz Romo up the middle and force him to make a quick decision. Most time the defenders will pick off those quick floaters Romo likes to throw.

JustinTuckNYG91
10-28-2012, 09:22 PM
I agree with you, no killer instinct and we were a matter of inches/hand/fingers of losing this game. I'll of course take the win but damn it, smell blood and go for the kill going forward.

spair
10-28-2012, 09:29 PM
We went to that soft zone to protect the lead.

Play Dallas man to man with safety help blitz Romo up the middle and force him to make a quick decision. Most time the defenders will pick off those quick floaters Romo likes to throw.

That's what I kept screaming at the TV but no one in there would listen to me.

DragonSoul
10-29-2012, 01:48 AM
though I agree with you for the most part, you know some of the kool aid drinking, Giants can do no wrong, homers may get upset at your post---LOL!!!

I would have liked to see more redzone TDs off of those turnovers and a better run game. But I will take the ugly win!Well, I have always kept it real. Been called an Eli Homer before lol, yet I could call him out when needed. And I can do the same for this team. They did some good on the defense and ST.

Thats what put me off the most was the lack of redzone scoring. It is like they were happy to just be there and settle for 3. When they have to work for it you see some spark and progress, but when its given to them by the defense, they seem to take it easy as if they didnt work for it, so why capitalize on it.

GiantGremlin
10-29-2012, 01:53 AM
Agreed. I will take an ugly win vs an ugly lose anytime as we did last week.

I'd take an 'ugly win' over a 'pretty loss' as well.

gmenfan0488
10-29-2012, 02:00 AM
closing out games have been an issue for us for several years

dave56dj
10-29-2012, 02:05 AM
Yeahs its just so sad being 6-2 and not having that killer instinct - while the pats and steelers and everyone else around the league just dominates with the killer instiNct of a champ - even the undefeated falcons barely beat the panthers - grow up - both teams get paid - division games are always insane and no team is crushing other teams - EVERYONE MAKES A RUN AT SOME POINT IN A GAME. We are at the top of the heap -even without your so called killer instinct.

GREAT WIN - GO BLUE.

DragonSoul
10-29-2012, 03:46 AM
closing out games have been an issue for us for several years more like several decades not years lol

DragonSoul
10-29-2012, 03:52 AM
Yeahs its just so sad being 6-2 and not having that killer instinct - while the pats and steelers and everyone else around the league just dominates with the killer instiNct of a champ - even the undefeated falcons barely beat the panthers - grow up - both teams get paid - division games are always insane and no team is crushing other teams - EVERYONE MAKES A RUN AT SOME POINT IN A GAME. We are at the top of the heap -even without your so called killer instinct.

GREAT WIN - GO BLUE.And I bet you would be the 1st one to cry and fire everyone on the Giants if Dez stayed in bounds and we lost... I love how its so black and white. Well there is nothing too see here people because we won the game. So lets not talk about our problems or issue nor improve on anything because hey we won. Oh and lets look at the other teams to prop ourselves up and feel better vs actually looking w/in and improving. Brilliant, continue.

Captain Chaos
10-29-2012, 04:42 AM
Made a similar comment "take control of the game" in the game thread. This was when we were making FGs vice TDs.

DragonSoul
10-29-2012, 07:48 PM
Thats when you saw it becoming the perfect storm.

RoanokeFan
10-29-2012, 07:54 PM
It was great how our defense made plays early (thankfully). Once it got out of hand, everyone went to lunch. Generally the whole offense started their lunch break from the snap... Cannot stand the safe play calls. We did it in SF at times and again in Dallas. I saw them trying to give up just before the half, but we didnt allow it.

Then 2nd half, they all took off. Defense was aggressive, then stopped. At the end they ratcheted it up and it made a difference. Why is it so hard to have the KILLER INSTINCT ffs.... You knew once they got close, then they would play solid, but it nearly cost us a game we had after 8 mins.

Sad state of affairs, but thankfully we ran away with the win.


Had we converted every interception into a touchdown that would have answered all questions about killer instinct

Buddy333
10-29-2012, 08:09 PM
That was their last game of October. The offense was bad yesterday but the defense has been bad almost all season. Time for their usual second half slump. With the schedule they have and the way the defense has played it won't surprise me if they went less than .500 for the rest of the season.

RoanokeFan
10-29-2012, 08:12 PM
That was their last game of October. The offense was bad yesterday but the defense has been bad almost all season. Time for their usual second half slump. With the schedule they have and the way the defense has played it won't surprise me if they went less than .500 for the rest of the season.

Have a little faith.

Buddy333
10-29-2012, 08:18 PM
Have a little faith.I will watch every game with anticipation of a win. I'm just saying even the players and coaches know that they flop second half of the season and they have not played well the last two games. It's like they are primed to have a second half slip. I could actually see them showing up this week because they seem to like a challenge but I don't know what team will show up against the Bengals.

brad
10-29-2012, 08:28 PM
It was great how our defense made plays early (thankfully). Once it got out of hand, everyone went to lunch. Generally the whole offense started their lunch break from the snap... Cannot stand the safe play calls. We did it in SF at times and again in Dallas. I saw them trying to give up just before the half, but we didnt allow it.

Then 2nd half, they all took off. Defense was aggressive, then stopped. At the end they ratcheted it up and it made a difference. Why is it so hard to have the KILLER INSTINCT ffs.... You knew once they got close, then they would play solid, but it nearly cost us a game we had after 8 mins.

Sad state of affairs, but thankfully we ran away with the win.

This sums it up perfectly... and it is the one thing that frustrates me with Coughlin, he tends to play not to lose at some point of every game they are leading in rather than going after them and putting the game away. I love Coughlin, especially after surviving some pretty bad teams/coaches prior to his arrival, but that is one thing I wish he would change.

RoanokeFan
10-29-2012, 08:29 PM
I will watch every game with anticipation of a win. I'm just saying even the players and coaches know that they flop second half of the season and they have not played well the last two games. It's like they are primed to have a second half slip. I could actually see them showing up this week because they seem to like a challenge but I don't know what team will show up against the Bengals.

Everybody needs to look forward. Having Canty back has already shown a obviously better DLine after just two starts. The players are the key, execution wins games.

Buddy333
10-29-2012, 08:32 PM
Everybody needs to look forward. Having Canty back has already shown a obviously better DLine after just two starts. The players are the key, execution wins games.I'm hoping for the best but I have o see it to believe it. They have been to consistent at being inconsistent that I'm waiting for he collapse. Some will say that's negative but even players and coaches know that they have bad second halves. Lets see I they can change that trend starting this week.

miked1958
10-29-2012, 08:46 PM
Guess we kinda sorta had it after we overcame the early deficit vs Cleveland. Won in blowout fashion. SF was a blowout due to the D shutting them down. But we kinda took foot off gas. Carolina was a beatdown

jaxnygmen
10-29-2012, 08:50 PM
We did not take advantage of the early turn overs. Two TD's instead of FG's would have killed them off. Offense was poor all game. Eli and WR's out of sync. Although I thought the Dallas DB's got away with a lot of grabbing and holding. They were doing the same thing Hosley was. We have a glaring weakness in our Lb's and their ability to cover. Getting Brown was a gift from the gods. If phillips comes back, I think Rolle should sit. He is over rated and makes to many misreads. I also think we did not get enough pressure on Romo. When we did he got skittish. We he had time he picked us apart with his check downs. Lesson learned though and a win is a win.

dave56dj
10-29-2012, 10:29 PM
"And I bet you would be the 1st one to cry and fire everyone on the Giants if Dez stayed in bounds and we lost... I love how its so black and white. Well there is nothing too see here people because we won the game. So lets not talk about our problems or issue nor improve on anything because hey we won. Oh and lets look at the other teams to prop ourselves up and feel better vs actually looking w/in and improving. Brilliant, continue."

Dont ever paint me in that silly RIGHT NOW crowd please. If he had caught the ball i would have been upset for sure- more so with webster for being beaten on a double move when you are protecting against 6 not 3. I am a huge advocate of gilbride fewell and coughlin - i have never once asked for any of their heads b/c i have gotten quite used to winning. I realize this year that no team is exactly KILLING IT, and i am certainly thrilled to be 6-2. I also played the game and realize every team makes a run. I also know the Giants played against what has been one of the best defenses in all of football this year - and its less to do with silly notions of heart and "killer instinct" nonsense and more to do with executing against a very tough d - which has been hard for almost every team in the league this year. i dont cry about things that are nonsense. Now if you'd like to discuss the clouds they ran at the end of the game or the trap run that almost got ab the first and how they couldve executed it better - if boothe had gotten off his block - and discuss getting better on the field we can. If you wanna cry about smells and colors no thanks.

BlueOldSchool
10-30-2012, 12:04 AM
Thank goodness Tynes is having a great year!

pino
10-30-2012, 12:11 AM
It's coming. We just have to stay healthy, get healthier, and take it one week at a time. Dallas always plays us close. This week was just a good example of that.

BillTheGreek
10-30-2012, 07:13 AM
How come we all AGREE !

RoanokeFan
10-30-2012, 08:43 AM
I'm hoping for the best but I have o see it to believe it. They have been to consistent at being inconsistent that I'm waiting for he collapse. Some will say that's negative but even players and coaches know that they have bad second halves. Lets see I they can change that trend starting this week.

But we were inconsistent last season too, yes?

stormblue
10-30-2012, 09:31 AM
@DragonSoul

well said.

clawwolf
10-30-2012, 10:19 AM
why not give Dallas and their D some credit? Witten is a warrior and when a team is down by that many points they are dangerous. Last time I checked we won the friggin game! My sad cowboy friends can't say that.

DragonSoul
10-30-2012, 11:57 PM
"And I bet you would be the 1st one to cry and fire everyone on the Giants if Dez stayed in bounds and we lost... I love how its so black and white. Well there is nothing too see here people because we won the game. So lets not talk about our problems or issue nor improve on anything because hey we won. Oh and lets look at the other teams to prop ourselves up and feel better vs actually looking w/in and improving. Brilliant, continue."

Dont ever paint me in that silly RIGHT NOW crowd please. If he had caught the ball i would have been upset for sure- more so with webster for being beaten on a double move when you are protecting against 6 not 3. I am a huge advocate of gilbride fewell and coughlin - i have never once asked for any of their heads b/c i have gotten quite used to winning. I realize this year that no team is exactly KILLING IT, and i am certainly thrilled to be 6-2. I also played the game and realize every team makes a run. I also know the Giants played against what has been one of the best defenses in all of football this year - and its less to do with silly notions of heart and "killer instinct" nonsense and more to do with executing against a very tough d - which has been hard for almost every team in the league this year. i dont cry about things that are nonsense. Now if you'd like to discuss the clouds they ran at the end of the game or the trap run that almost got ab the first and how they couldve executed it better - if boothe had gotten off his block - and discuss getting better on the field we can. If you wanna cry about smells and colors no thanks.Amazing how many see it differently than you. And what I said in the title whether you like it or not is the problem. They have trouble finishing games when there is no reason to on a daily basis. How about last year when we lost 2xs to the skins? Let me guess that was cool b/c they had a stellar defense correct?

You are missing a huge point. Im ecstatic that we won. My problem is, is that you think its all pie in the sky and we need not worry or improve on anything b/c we are 6-2. That is a joke. Thank god the coaching staff does think like you do. They could have been as aggressive or more so when they got the turn overs.

And what is amazing, is that b/c we feel they can do better and improve based on all those turn overs you want to give them a pass. Oh Dallases defenses was great, oh SF defense was great. Yet when we needed it, the Offense move it on both teams, as Eli did initially before the turnovers and at the end in the 4 as usual. So yea we can say they stunk it up, because THEY DID, yet we can be happy they won at the same time.

Luckily they didn't feel as you did, and see it as a problem. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000087733/article/tom-coughlin-addressing-giants-redzone-problems

giantsforce
10-31-2012, 12:44 AM
Everybody needs to look forward. Having Canty back has already shown a obviously better DLine after just two starts. The players are the key, execution wins games.A wise man once said that "those who forget their history, they are condemn to repeat it". Looking forward, without addressing the problems of the past is why the Giants keep repeating the same mistakes. The coaching staff is also part of the game and you need to have a plan that is executable. It is like going to war and having generals that send the soldiers to capture a hill and they get slaughtered and the generals blame the soldiers for not executing the plan. Part of the coaches job is to see if the plan is not working to either change it or put in the field personnel who can execute.

dave56dj
10-31-2012, 05:35 AM
I never said they couldn't get better - I said the belief in "killer instinct" is silly. I said if you wanna talk about actual plays - and players executing better then so be it. But you'd rather discuss things like smells and colors. I made it clear the giants - even at 6-2 had issues - i said boothe had to do a better job on the trap runs - the cloud coverages were poorly executed - THAT IS ACTUAL FOOTBALL - that is what the coaches are working on - that is what players try and correct when watching game film. NOT THE ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENTS. Get off a block - shed the tackle and get to the next level - feather in zones - what they are not doing is discussing how it is they could've adjusted to a better attitude or killer instinct against the cowboys - or niners. What you call killer instinct is actually a team that has excellent technique, that knows their assignments back to front - that has a great grasp of their own playbook and who can execute to perfection. You then call it instinct but its just good football, and you don't wanna discuss actual football you wanna talk about attitude and like i said thats about as silly as smells and colors.

a4gmen
10-31-2012, 07:19 AM
The same team that showed up against the Browns.14 to nothing before that got their a** in gear.

danielboone
10-31-2012, 10:00 AM
"And I bet you would be the 1st one to cry and fire everyone on the Giants if Dez stayed in bounds and we lost... I love how its so black and white. Well there is nothing too see here people because we won the game. So lets not talk about our problems or issue nor improve on anything because hey we won. Oh and lets look at the other teams to prop ourselves up and feel better vs actually looking w/in and improving. Brilliant, continue."

Dont ever paint me in that silly RIGHT NOW crowd please. If he had caught the ball i would have been upset for sure- more so with webster for being beaten on a double move when you are protecting against 6 not 3. I am a huge advocate of gilbride fewell and coughlin - i have never once asked for any of their heads b/c i have gotten quite used to winning. I realize this year that no team is exactly KILLING IT, and i am certainly thrilled to be 6-2. I also played the game and realize every team makes a run. I also know the Giants played against what has been one of the best defenses in all of football this year - and its less to do with silly notions of heart and "killer instinct" nonsense and more to do with executing against a very tough d - which has been hard for almost every team in the league this year. i dont cry about things that are nonsense. Now if you'd like to discuss the clouds they ran at the end of the game or the trap run that almost got ab the first and how they couldve executed it better - if boothe had gotten off his block - and discuss getting better on the field we can. If you wanna cry about smells and colors no thanks.

You're wasting your time, dave56dj. 99% of the people here don't appreciate the absolute truth of your statements. It's much easier to criticize the team for lack of effort or other unmeasurable concepts. One can tell your opinions come from someone who has been on the playing field.

As to the criticisms of the coaches for not being sufficiently aggressive on offense, I remember a couple of years ago when Eli set a record for interceptions precisely because he was trying to do too much. They are now playing smarter. And winning more. That is the big change in Eli which has elevated his game. He will take a short gain or a sack, if necessary, and avoid the big mistake for the most part. Look at how successful SF has been with that! Yet Eli will win more than lose if he has to turn it on in the clutch something Alex Smith is missing. But you only take chances on turnovers when you have to. That is playing smart. Most people on this board don't get it.

Not saying the team is perfect. You should always be looking to get better. There are lots of things that can be improved. I don't think desire and strategy are among them.

CowboysSuck
10-31-2012, 10:06 AM
"And I bet you would be the 1st one to cry and fire everyone on the Giants if Dez stayed in bounds and we lost... I love how its so black and white. Well there is nothing too see here people because we won the game. So lets not talk about our problems or issue nor improve on anything because hey we won. Oh and lets look at the other teams to prop ourselves up and feel better vs actually looking w/in and improving. Brilliant, continue."

Dont ever paint me in that silly RIGHT NOW crowd please. If he had caught the ball i would have been upset for sure- more so with webster for being beaten on a double move when you are protecting against 6 not 3. I am a huge advocate of gilbride fewell and coughlin - i have never once asked for any of their heads b/c i have gotten quite used to winning. I realize this year that no team is exactly KILLING IT, and i am certainly thrilled to be 6-2. I also played the game and realize every team makes a run. I also know the Giants played against what has been one of the best defenses in all of football this year - and its less to do with silly notions of heart and "killer instinct" nonsense and more to do with executing against a very tough d - which has been hard for almost every team in the league this year. i dont cry about things that are nonsense. Now if you'd like to discuss the clouds they ran at the end of the game or the trap run that almost got ab the first and how they couldve executed it better - if boothe had gotten off his block - and discuss getting better on the field we can. If you wanna cry about smells and colors no thanks.

Dave, you and I are on the same page. (granted the offense an defense have struggled, but so does every team's at some point.)

Dont let all these whiners get to you're head. They are just here to blow smoke up eachother's___ and gripe and moan about how were not 8-0 or the Greatest Show on Turf.

DragonSoul
10-31-2012, 02:29 PM
I never said they couldn't get better - I said the belief in "killer instinct" is silly. I said if you wanna talk about actual plays - and players executing better then so be it. But you'd rather discuss things like smells and colors. I made it clear the giants - even at 6-2 had issues - i said boothe had to do a better job on the trap runs - the cloud coverages were poorly executed - THAT IS ACTUAL FOOTBALL - that is what the coaches are working on - that is what players try and correct when watching game film. NOT THE ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENTS. Get off a block - shed the tackle and get to the next level - feather in zones - what they are not doing is discussing how it is they could've adjusted to a better attitude or killer instinct against the cowboys - or niners. What you call killer instinct is actually a team that has excellent technique, that knows their assignments back to front - that has a great grasp of their own playbook and who can execute to perfection. You then call it instinct but its just good football, and you don't wanna discuss actual football you wanna talk about attitude and like i said thats about as silly as smells and colors.Sure some of what you say is part of it, but so is ATTITUDE. It could be from sports, to gaming, as well as other venues. When people are doing well or have it easier they generally let off the gas. The Giants have done that for decades. Why is it that most people know what to expect? I said it when they were gonna play SF. That I have a feeling Giants win, as they always play up to their opponents when they have a need to prove themselves. Yet when they play a weaker opponent they generally have problems.

As you say, from being a former football player I would think you know something about that. Once your attitude changes your FORM changes, aggressiveness shifts as well as other factors. Not sure what is so hard to understand. But keep going around in a circle if you must. Im done.

Carlos C
10-31-2012, 02:36 PM
Even when we were up 23-0 I kept telling friends not to be over confident. Many were already congratulating me on the win. The San Francisco game was a rarity for the Giants where they take a lead and actually keep it or build on it without drama. Sad part is that this team is talented enough to win every game easily if they decide to play 4 quarters of disciplined football and also if Gilbride opens up the play book a little.

DragonSoul
10-31-2012, 02:37 PM
As to the criticisms of the coaches for not being sufficiently aggressive on offense, I remember a couple of years ago when Eli set a record for interceptions precisely because he was trying to do too much. They are now playing smarter. And winning more. That is the big change in Eli which has elevated his game. He will take a short gain or a sack, if necessary, and avoid the big mistake for the most part. Look at how successful SF has been with that! Yet Eli will win more than lose if he has to turn it on in the clutch something Alex Smith is missing. But you only take chances on turnovers when you have to. That is playing smart. Most people on this board don't get it.

Not saying the team is perfect. You should always be looking to get better. There are lots of things that can be improved. I don't think desire and strategy are among them.

1 - You are wrong as to the reason Eli had those 25 pics if you recall the games. It was a stat showing that Eli was the most unluckiest QB in the league that year when it came to INTS. They said Brady and Vick were the luckiest as most of the INTS they should have had were dropped while Elis werent or had crazy bounces. There was an article stating that approximately 8 to 10 of those INTS were on the WRS/TEs...

While Eli did make bad throws earlier in his career and at times had to based on the team, that year was not on Eli but on his wrs/tes/hbs or bad luck if you would prefer to use it. Look at the INT he had vs the cowboys? Was that on him? Stat wise it was, but not if you saw it. The Int he had vs the Skins, he had 2. Both were on him. So there are obvious tells, but do not use that example as evidence because it is false.

2 - I agree Eli improved with taking a sack, throwing the ball away and not taking as many chances (or more so, we have better quality wrs). So that he did improve on. But that had nothing to do with the topic at hand, of being aggressive or lacking killer instinct.

You don't think strategy is among the problems? Did you not watch last years SF game? Because that was the cause of our loss. Not sure what you guys are watching or are not watching, but ok.

dave56dj
10-31-2012, 03:02 PM
Dragon - I can see youre a great fan - youve been on these boards for a long time and I have seen you post passionately about this team. I think what im saying to you is maybe its time for a die hard like yourself to acquaint yourself more with the actual football and less with the speeches and emotions of the game. I am not saying you aren't very knowledgeable - im saying take it to a different level. What happens on saturday walk throughs - what happens in prep meetings and speeches on sunday are really just a tiny tiny cherry on the all ready put together cake. The cake includes the defensive and offensive installments for the week - these are the ingredients that really determine our fate. How we defend the box against dwyer - will we play tampa 2 against the speed of wallace and brown- what ab can do against the excellent edges set by Pitts disciplined LB's - how we can use a banged up steeler secondary to our advantage.

After that its ra ra time and thats mainly what fans and even commentators talk about -why? Because its easier to make a story of - its easier to understand for a casual fan - its a jucier story then talking about tighter zones - better chipping and a lb being able to scrape - BUT TRULY IT IS THE MEANINGLESS CHERRY. - the cake has been baked and it is either executed or not. I can think of no better example then our own ELI - work work work - he really doesnt say a whole lot - he really is not a ra ra leader - he rarely makes speeches - he leads by being prepared and ready to play. So you speak of killer instinct - i'd rather hear about the struggle to run against a 7 man front and then why we were struggling to beat bump and run and press?

My football days are far far behind -and i never saw a player who wasn't absolutely shot of a cannon on sundays - or in my case friday and saturdays - but that was never a problem for football players - it was the guys who knew what was gonna happen and how to play it who succeeded.

DragonSoul
10-31-2012, 03:51 PM
I think we just see it differently. First I have never played football as I was into other sports/activities at that time, and actually being refugees from Russia, no one in my family knew what football was. So I didnt get into till about Junior Year of HS. But that does not make a difference in a number of ways. Sure if I try to debate some people who are more experienced their word at time can have a heavier impact compared to mine. But then again they are not always correct. How many pro football coaches every played the game? I mean look at some of our own players who got into it towards the end of college like JPP, or the rookie TE we got. So you can learn it if you should choose to.

I actually learned the (beginnings of the )game of football from madden (i know cliche). I started to play Fever when xbox live came on to the scene. Some of the people I became friends with were players in HS/College level. So when playing they would explain a lot to me. I learned about the differences in formations, lineups, strong side, weak side and so forth. The more technical terms like maybe "cloud" coverage to me sounds like a soft zone so to me thats just simple terminology as each team has their own for the same type of slant, dig, comeback or post routes. Oh and I also read and researched quite a bit once I started learning. And the end of your 1st paragraph I know and understand. So do not assume that passion means uninformed. I knock this team for its good and its bad, technique (meaning I may not know all the correct terminology for stances, but I can see where a block was missed, who did pick up the man, where the blitz was coming from, and the picks that Eli threw vs the Skins while were on him, I also know that the way the played it (or hid it could almost make Eli not take the blame because it was based on a hot read due to a possible incoming blitz which he had it as a timed release, but the DB played fake blitz back up and go to the throwing lane and maybe get a pic, and he won that round.) and passion at times.

So I may not have played football, or learned much of it (obviously I have a bit to learn still, but not big on technique like 3 or 4 point stances), but I have been competitive in my life in other sports (I know there is more than just football) so I know generally human nature. I appreciate you think I am a passionate fan, but I am also an informed and believe knowledgeable fan, not as some of the other posters here (even they can be wrong).

I just happened to translate the killer instinct not based on strategy or preparation which are a great part of it, but for easing up, and/or KG and Fewell changing their mindset which then changes the players mindset. Instead of playing more of an attacking defense as they all stated they would, and which they did early on, they backed off once they got the jump, and thats when the so called moment changed again. So I can easily go into the technical terms you used above if I wanted to, I just went a different way about it. Because I do agree some of that is true based on boothe and so forth, but just because I did not mention it, doesn't mean I didn't see it, or didn't know/notice it. I appreciate your input as well, and have read you posts as well. There are peoples posts I enjoy reading for a number of reasons. Some humor, some different point of view, others technical where I may learn something I previously did not know.

But let me give you a quick run down on what I have said in the past.
1 - Tiki could/would be a top tier RB (this was still in his hey day of fumbling and was the rotating back with dayne and wheatly.)
2. Eli would be a very good QB if not a great one (again this is when people were questioning him even before he won his 1st SB (and they still did after the 1st one). If you paid attention to things you could see it coming. ( I haven't been that bad off of my Eli Stats (post) on a yearly basis)
3. Called Eli Elite when others wanted him gone already. And Mentioned last year when the controversy hit that before seasons End he will be considered Elite. Funny how that turned out. I also called him clutch and that Eli could take a hit when most qbs couldn't face what he did (just think of last years SF playoff game) like Brady, Rodgers, Brees (Ben may be one of the few who could based on just his build)
4. Mentioned since 09 that we needed to redo our offensive line. Yet some how we managed to win a SB, still amazing.
5. In 08/09 - I also said AB should be the starter over Jacobs
6. Last year I felt Booth was a better guard, and we needed to get diehl off the line. I may have been wrong about Baas (being average or not good, but time will tell as he has had some bad plays, but I hope he does well and I am wrong).
7. I also felt that time passed mckenzie as well as ohara, and we needed to find replacements. While most thought all was ok, and their was no issues.
8. Cruz - I think most felt he was going to be good. The reason I did, was not the big plays, but his hand/eye coordination, he just made it look easy, it wasn't a fight or struggle, he was/is a natural, and his speed/agility and shiftiness helps to add to him.
9. I said McNabb will never win as he is a choke artist as is Reid. I was happy when vick came to the eagles as he was just a playmaker and also could not finish out games when there was pressure on him. Said the same about Romo, and Turner in SD.
10. I also have said, that the Eagles generally start slow, but finish strong in the end (may not happen this year, that they finish strong), and the cowboys are generally the opposite. They usually start fast(er) but mellow out at the end. But none of those players/teams can win because the QBS were/are all chokers while their coaches are just as brain dead in crunch time, big spots, or 2-4 minutes of the quarters.

Plus there is a bunch of other stuff I didn't mention. So no I may not have ever played the game, but I think my record is pretty good based on observation, willingness to research/read/learn and listen.

dave56dj
10-31-2012, 04:08 PM
Well dragon i guess we are gonna have to move on - I am not talking about prognosticating or coming up right or wrong with educated guesses. That is what the casual fan does. They predict barber will be good based on flashes - and to an extent coaches do as well. What seperates fans from coaches is that coaches watch technique - they watch assignments - they watch a players know how. Anyone - including me or you, can look and see that wilson is extremely talented with the ball in his hands (this is why he is a frist rounder) - he can make "madden" like moves - anyone can see that luck is worth a 1st round pick - their talents are off the chart. But what you dont see is wilson picking up his pass protections in practice - can you see why Linval is capable of playing the one and 3 tech and therefore a very useful 2nd round pick. Can you tell that hakeem nicks runs a route tree better then hayward bay - can you see incognito get off a block and get to the second level and then dump a LB?

Again you are talking about seeing a guy make a great play then saying he will be good - you need to know alot more about the player before he even gets to that situation.

I am not saying you are not a great knowledgeable fan - im saying you are not seeing the x's and o's and thats what the game is really about. Because again anyone can give a great speech anyone can have the right attitude its the preparation and understanding and talent fro executing that wins games.

JesseJames
10-31-2012, 04:47 PM
sure we all liked the win against the Cowboys but how long can we expect to win games with a call reversal by the refs. We are now in the second half of the season and it looks to me like we still don't know what kind of team we have and who we can count on to beat. This business of counting on Eli to bring out his miracle in the 4th quarter isn't going to hold up for long, especially against the really good teams.

stormblue
10-31-2012, 06:20 PM
the killer instinct being referred to in this thread has nothing to do with
palm-palms and rah-rahs and players backing off and taking it easy because
they think its a blowout and don't need to execute anymore.

it has to do with a coaching staff that runs around preaching "finish"
but when we get a good lead the play calling becomes conservative.
especially in the 4th qtr.

the ridiculously impossible comebacks that have happened to this
team are frustrating because it's mainly due to a change of philosophy
going from pedal to metal on both sides of the ball to prevent defense soft zones
with that don't give up the big play crap on defense ,wherein they march right
down the field in 7 to 12 yard chunks and stuff in the endzone.
and we respond on offense with that Bradshaw 3 runs to kill clock time
punt the ball right back to them so we can play the soft zone again and watch
them march right back down the field again.
then we get the ball back and call another safe , conservative 3 and out to try
and eat up more clocktime and keep the wolves at bay. punt , and here they come again.

how many times do you see this around here.......that would be anytime we have a 4th qtr lead.
when we should have marched right down the field with the same aggressive play-calling
that lets us come from behind and pull out last minute victories or got us the lead to start
with.

that is all on the coaching staff and their over conservative play calling on both sides of the ball when we have a lead

when you have a big lead and you are on defense you are supposed to
pin your ears back send the house.....not us , we call soft zones instead of press man and blitz.
on offense we stop trying to score and start trying to eat the clock up.

the killer instinct we are referring to would be better served by renaming it to ;

COWARDLY CONSERVATIVE COACHING WITH A LEAD.

that is not x's and o's my friends it is poor philosophy.
it is poor chess-playing.

Sun Tzu would be ashamed.

and comparing the friday and saturday edition to the sunday version is insulting the game.
that's comparing times tables to calculus.
you either read the sunday playbook or you didn't

dave56dj
10-31-2012, 09:37 PM
Im sure tom coughlin kevin gilbride and perry fewell have suddenly turned into cowards - im sure.

stormblue
11-01-2012, 05:31 AM
Im sure tom coughlin kevin gilbride and perry fewell have suddenly turned into cowards - im sure.

i suppose you have a point there , no need to insult them on a personal level....

all right then....

conservative coaching with a lead..........

DragonSoul
11-01-2012, 12:10 PM
Well dragon i guess we are gonna have to move on - I am not talking about prognosticating or coming up right or wrong with educated guesses. That is what the casual fan does. They predict barber will be good based on flashes - and to an extent coaches do as well. What seperates fans from coaches is that coaches watch technique - they watch assignments - they watch a players know how. Anyone - including me or you, can look and see that wilson is extremely talented with the ball in his hands (this is why he is a frist rounder) - he can make "madden" like moves - anyone can see that luck is worth a 1st round pick - their talents are off the chart. But what you dont see is wilson picking up his pass protections in practice - can you see why Linval is capable of playing the one and 3 tech and therefore a very useful 2nd round pick. Can you tell that hakeem nicks runs a route tree better then hayward bay - can you see incognito get off a block and get to the second level and then dump a LB?

Again you are talking about seeing a guy make a great play then saying he will be good - you need to know alot more about the player before he even gets to that situation.

I am not saying you are not a great knowledgeable fan - im saying you are not seeing the x's and o's and thats what the game is really about. Because again anyone can give a great speech anyone can have the right attitude its the preparation and understanding and talent fro executing that wins games.

I have no problem agreeing to disagree. While I do know some X's & O's, I obviously don't know it all, or maybe even a quarter of it. And to answer your questions..

1) anyone can see that luck is worth a 1st round pick - their talents are off the chart. --------------I disagree here. How many have been busts, that many thought would be great like Leaf or even vice versa like Brady.

2) But what you dont see is wilson picking up his pass protections in practice ----------------------- Actually I do see this and watch it, as I picked that up from the tiki days. Thats why AB is in there on most plays (besides his ability to make plays as a running back). That was also what kept AB off the field partially earlier in his career. Also that is why on occasion you may see Brown and/or wilson in the passing game. Because they will use them as a safety net for the pass as they did with brown on the screen play pass vs SF (even though it was designed for that ball to go his way anyway). And generally wilson is used to either run w/the ball or as an extra receiver.

3) can you see why Linval is capable of playing the one and 3 tech and therefore a very useful 2nd round pick. ------------ Truthfully here I cannot, but I have noticed he has played well even from last year before many took note. Do I know exactly why based on what technique? Nope I dont and when I have time that would be something I would look into (research to learn)

4) Can you tell that hakeem nicks runs a route tree better then hayward bay --------------------------- Yes, easily. Perfect example was Mario Manningham. Which is why I wasn't a big fan of his. Because he may make one great plat, but thats after a couple ok ones and more so then not bad ones. Which mostly came from go routes that he never left enough room to the sidelines to make a play, or was forced out by the dbs play.

5) can you see incognito get off a block and get to the second level and then dump a LB? ------- Sure can...

DragonSoul
11-01-2012, 12:12 PM
sure we all liked the win against the Cowboys but how long can we expect to win games with a call reversal by the refs. We are now in the second half of the season and it looks to me like we still don't know what kind of team we have and who we can count on to beat. This business of counting on Eli to bring out his miracle in the 4th quarter isn't going to hold up for long, especially against the really good teams.Agreed. But the problem is with relying on Eli, is that he will still have the magic, but that one game he may not, could be the playoff game we are in. Or could be because of the play calling.

DragonSoul
11-01-2012, 12:15 PM
it has to do with a coaching staff that runs around preaching "finish"
but when we get a good lead the play calling becomes conservative.
especially in the 4th qtr.

the ridiculously impossible comebacks that have happened to this
team are frustrating because it's mainly due to a change of philosophy
going from pedal to metal on both sides of the ball to prevent defense soft zones
with that don't give up the big play crap on defense ,wherein they march right
down the field in 7 to 12 yard chunks and stuff in the endzone.
and we respond on offense with that Bradshaw 3 runs to kill clock time
punt the ball right back to them so we can play the soft zone again and watch
them march right back down the field again.
This summed it up well. Who did not see AB finally getting the ball once? At that time, I would have been fine with 1 of the 3 plays being a pass. In a way it is similar to how dallas was criticized for not running 1 time on 4 downs.