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View Full Version : would you want TC to stay IF.....................



ryan12
12-19-2011, 09:07 AM
mara tell's him to get a new oc and dc.... i now hate fewell more than i hate gilbride and ive loathed gilbride for years

CDN_G-FAN
12-19-2011, 09:15 AM
mara tell's him to get a new oc and dc.... i now hate fewell more than i hate gilbride and ive loathed gilbride for years</P>


why would TC want to stay, given his resume and tenure, if he's told who to work with? I certainly wouldn't.</P>


how do you evaluate him then? Whose responsibility is the play of the team when you start dictating who he can hire/fire?</P>


i think coughlin is a great coach, and that any replaement we get will only be as good at best, or a significant downgrade at worst, but likehis coordinators or not, the buck stops with coughlin.</P>


he's earned the right to decide who he works with, and the tradeoff is we can evaluate him on that basis.</P>

hungrrrry
12-19-2011, 09:57 AM
mara tell's him to get a new oc and dc.... i now hate fewell more than i hate gilbride and ive loathed gilbride for years</P>


why would TC want to stay, given his resume and tenure, if he's told who to work with?* I certainly wouldn't.</P>


how do you evaluate him then?* Whose responsibility is the play of the team when you start dictating who he can hire/fire?</P>


i think coughlin is a great coach, and that any replaement we get will only be as good at best, or a significant downgrade at worst, but like*his coordinators or not, the buck stops with coughlin.</P>


he's earned the right to decide who he works with, and the tradeoff is we can evaluate him on that basis.</P>As much as it kills me to do so in this arguement, I agree with CDN_G-FAN...Not because I don't like this poster but I absolutely hate these coordinators...I don't think Coughlin should be castrated by the Maras...the Maras have to judge everything under the Tom Coughlin umbrella and determine if TC's tenure continues or ends. I like TC a lot. I am sure the powers above TC will express their approval/disapproval of his system and share what they really saw as weakness and strengths. Whether TC stays or not will fall on what his outlook is from here and whether ownership and Reese agree with his direction moving forward.....however, I do indeed think TC needs support in from his coaching staff if he is staying and right now, he isn't getting that support from a game-planning perspective which results in a lack of player support on the field...and thus fan support from the stands and merchandise sales.

FIFTY6G-MAN
12-19-2011, 10:05 AM
The only way i would let him stay is if........The front office has Tom and the entire staff attend a mandatory seminar called "MAKING IN GAME ADJUSTMENTS 101"

BParcells777
12-19-2011, 10:06 AM
What do you like most about him, his lack of a personality, or his Annual Nov/Dec collapse???

His Press Conferences???

Maybe it the fact all our free agents flee like rats from a sinking ship

Or is it his principles like sitting Bradshaw til the 2nd half and almost losing to the cowboys

Or is it perfect pitch when it comes to choosing co-ordinators and then duct taping thier mouths?

Really............. what is it you guys love about this old Crumudgeon????

Tony Bruno
12-19-2011, 10:08 AM
I thank TC for the years and the SB win... its time for him to move on and enjoy the rest of his life... he has accomplished more than alot of big time coaches and should be respected in that matter... He is a good coach but unfortunatly his days have pasted...

He is responsible for the gameplans and regardless of the Cords he has to make changes and we simply dont... Id be willing to roll the dice on a new coaching staff at this point...

CDN_G-FAN
12-19-2011, 10:12 AM
mara tell's him to get a new oc and dc.... i now hate fewell more than i hate gilbride and ive loathed gilbride for years</P>


why would TC want to stay, given his resume and tenure, if he's told who to work with? I certainly wouldn't.</P>


how do you evaluate him then? Whose responsibility is the play of the team when you start dictating who he can hire/fire?</P>


i think coughlin is a great coach, and that any replaement we get will only be as good at best, or a significant downgrade at worst, but likehis coordinators or not, the buck stops with coughlin.</P>


he's earned the right to decide who he works with, and the tradeoff is we can evaluate him on that basis.</P>


As much as it kills me to do so in this arguement, I agree with CDN_G-FAN...Not because I don't like this poster but I absolutely hate these coordinators...I don't think Coughlin should be castrated by the Maras...the Maras have to judge everything under the Tom Coughlin umbrella and determine if TC's tenure continues or ends. I like TC a lot. I am sure the powers above TC will express their approval/disapproval of his system and share what they really saw as weakness and strengths. Whether TC stays or not will fall on what his outlook is from here and whether ownership and Reese agree with his direction moving forward.....however, I do indeed think TC needs support in from his coaching staff if he is staying and right now, he isn't getting that support from a game-planning perspective which results in a lack of player support on the field...and thus fan support from the stands and merchandise sales.</P>


i love coughlin too, but the buck stops with him.</P>


sometimes you don't change coaches to get a better coach. Sometimes you change coaches because you need a change.</P>


and that's dangerous, because we could find ourselves with a couple good years, but this roster has shown its not a self motivating roster, and its only a matter of time before they finda reason to tune the new messanger out as well.</P>

daynemustgo
12-19-2011, 10:16 AM
Fair or not, it's a bottom line business. Coughlin knows this and he will be the last one to publicly complain about it. The coach has produced many wins and perhaps the finest hour in Giants history (SB 42).

That said, NY is on the verge of missing the playoffs for the third straight year and Coughlin has never won a single playoff game outside of 07.

For whatever reason(s), the team is locked in a cycle of starting the year strong and limping to the finish line.

I have no idea if a 7-9 finish is enough to get him canned but how many second half collapses and home meltdowns can any coach survive?

hungrrrry
12-19-2011, 10:35 AM
mara tell's him to get a new oc and dc.... i now hate fewell more than i hate gilbride and ive loathed gilbride for years</P>


why would TC want to stay, given his resume and tenure, if he's told who to work with?* I certainly wouldn't.</P>


how do you evaluate him then?* Whose responsibility is the play of the team when you start dictating who he can hire/fire?</P>


i think coughlin is a great coach, and that any replaement we get will only be as good at best, or a significant downgrade at worst, but like*his coordinators or not, the buck stops with coughlin.</P>


he's earned the right to decide who he works with, and the tradeoff is we can evaluate him on that basis.</P>


As much as it kills me to do so in this arguement, I agree with CDN_G-FAN...Not because I don't like this poster but I absolutely hate these coordinators...I don't think Coughlin should be castrated by the Maras...the Maras have to judge everything under the Tom Coughlin umbrella and determine if TC's tenure continues or ends. I like TC a lot. I am sure the powers above TC will express their approval/disapproval of his system and share what they really saw as weakness and strengths. Whether TC stays or not will fall on what his outlook is from here and whether ownership and Reese agree with his direction moving forward.....however, I do indeed think TC needs support in from his coaching staff if he is staying and right now, he isn't getting that support from a game-planning perspective which results in a lack of player support on the field...and thus fan support from the stands and merchandise sales.</P>


i love coughlin too, but the buck stops with him.</P>


sometimes you don't change coaches to get a better coach.* Sometimes you change coaches because you need a change.</P>


and that's dangerous, because we could find ourselves with a couple good years, but this roster has shown its not a self motivating roster, and its only a matter of time before they find*a reason to tune the new messanger out as well.</P>At this point I don't want TC out if we can replace at least our DC with someone that has a more (Giants) traditional style and philosophy of defense, which essentially means high-intensity/heavy pass-rush, in general. Read and react is for street football and kids modified teams.
If that doesn't happen then I welcome the change, though reluctantly!
As for why I like Coughlin...because he holds to principles...if you don't then you instill a major lack of discipline and, furthermore, learning/improving, as a team and an individual. Look at Ochocinco as just one example. Was never kept under wraps and therefore he sucks now that he has had to move on. Has it really hurt us? No, not really! Even if it did on occassion, it is much less so than letting the inmates run the prison.

JesseJames
12-19-2011, 10:36 AM
TC's time here is over and most of us have seen enough and I hope the owners feel the same way.

JJC7301
12-19-2011, 10:42 AM
I'd be willing to give Tom 1 more year, but this team needs an overhaul and that includes the coordinators. And if you're going to do that, then you really need to get a new HC who can have a hand in choosing his own coordinators.</P>


I have a strong feeling that the FO will excuse this season due to injuries and the entire coaching staff will be back for one last hurrah. I like TC, but I just don't like the idea of all of them being back. I would like to see a lot of this roster gone as well.</P>

nygfanmaybe
12-19-2011, 10:47 AM
I say give TC another year due to the way the season started with the injuries. If he decides he wants to replace someone, then he does it...if not, he lives with the consequences.

If he wanted to replace those guys I sure wouldn't have a problem with it.

hungrrrry
12-19-2011, 10:52 AM
I'd be willing to give Tom 1 more year, but this team needs an overhaul and that includes the coordinators.* And if you're going to do that, then you really need to get a new HC who can have a hand in choosing his own coordinators.</P>


I have a strong feeling that the FO will excuse this season due to injuries and the entire coaching staff will be back for one last hurrah.* I like TC, but I just don't like the idea of all of them being back.* I would like to see a lot of this roster gone as well.</P>I disagree with the roster bit...look at it like this:
You are having a snowfight...the team against you is an awesome snowball fighter but your guys can't even make a snowball...you are gonna lose right? Possibly! But your team might be great at making avalanches, thus squashing the snowball fighters...wouldn't you like that? I would.
Our defense was built to emphasize rushing the passer (causing avalanches) but our defensive leader (Fewell) is a snowball fighter so naturally our guys look inept in his system....I hope that helps.

It is easier to replace the DC because we definately have the talent to squash any offense we have seen this season.

nygfanmaybe
12-19-2011, 10:58 AM
look at it like this:
You are having a snowfight...the team against you is an awesome snowball fighter but your guys can't even make a snowball...you are gonna lose right? Possibly! But your team might be great at making avalanches, thus squashing the snowball fighters...
.

Was it snowing in NY yesterday???

TrueBlue@NYC
12-19-2011, 10:58 AM
It really all comes down to the Giants making the playoffs and at least being competitive in the wild card game. </P>


If they miss the playoffs, TC's gone. It's one thing to miss the playoffs three years running if you're rebuilding a team (like STL or BUF). It's quite another for that to happen when you're supposed to be a contender. </P>


Injuries are a factor, and they've hurt us. But, those were similar excuses in 2010 and 2009. And that doesn't fly. </P>


If we get into the playoffs and win a game, TC has earned the right to stay. </P>


For the poster who asked what people like about TC as a coach. </P>


1. His game management is top notch. </P>


2. He holds players accountable for their actions. </P>


3. He's an actual head coach that oversees the whole team, not just a glorified coordinator with the title who has little or no say in the other side of the ball. </P>


4. Overall, he's a winner. As much as we've struggled under TC late the in the year, which is a HUGE concern, we've only had one losing season under him, in our rebuilding year, and are one of only a couple of teams that havent had a losing season in that time span. </P>

hungrrrry
12-19-2011, 11:00 AM
look at it like this:
You are having a snowfight...the team against you is an awesome snowball fighter but your guys can't even make a snowball...you are gonna lose right? Possibly! But your team might be great at making avalanches, thus squashing the snowball fighters...
.

Was it snowing in NY yesterday???it might have been better for us if it was

FIFTY6G-MAN
12-19-2011, 11:13 AM
I say give TC another year due to the way the season started with the injuries. If he decides he wants to replace someone, then he does it...if not, <FONT size=5>he lives with the consequences</FONT>. If he wanted to replace those guys I sure wouldn't have a problem with it.NO, "WE" live with the consequences of his decisions.

Big Blue 418
12-19-2011, 11:14 AM
We have went through countless coordinators under Coughlin . Enough with these excuses . He has to be held responsible for the headcoach ..


You apologists act like coordinators have all the responsibility and the head coach has none .


When a team is not mentally focoused or prepared against bad teams that is on the head coach...


No more coordinators taking the hit ...

We need to clean house periopd . Coughlin & company all got to go

hungrrrry
12-19-2011, 11:28 AM
We have went through countless coordinators under Coughlin . Enough with these excuses . He has to be held responsible for the headcoach ..


You apologists act like coordinators have all the responsibility and the head coach has none .


When a team is not mentally focoused or prepared against bad teams that is on the head coach...


No more coordinators taking the hit ...

We need to clean house periopd . Coughlin & company all got to go

I agree that Coughlins loyalty to his coordinators is detrimental to his tenure. I also believe he is quick to hire just about anyone to fill a coordinators position. I agree that falls on him, no doubt. It is up to the Maras to bring him back based on what they have seen overall and what he proposes going forward...don't forget that part though. They will take his plans moving forward into consideration as well. Call it being an apologist but the Mara family and other successfull people aren't that way because they make snap-decisions without thorough considerations to all aspects of their investments. Do you sell a car because a tire seems to keep going flat? No, you fix or replace the tire. You don't by a car just because it looks hot, it might be low-powered and get poor fuel economy. So because of that, they weigh whether it is best to replace him and if so, with whom and then they need to consider all the different aspects of the replacement. Nothing to apologise about in my opinion

bearbryant
12-19-2011, 11:31 AM
There would be no reason to keep a head coach who is the head of a team with issues like this team has. TC's time in coaching is done. He had a nice ride ( fortunate to have spagnola) but watching the attitude, lack of intensity and nearly every games excuses of " Its stops with me the HC"; part of the problem lies in leadership both players and coaching. So he's right:time to pay the price of bad football!</P>


And the premise that the next HC would be worse than coughlin is all supposition based on emotion. My facts tell us that year after year this team cannot keep the intensity needed to compete with other teams especially when the quality gets better. Come on, we can't even beat the foreskins when it nearly insures a playoff spot.</P>


Its time to get a coaching staff that uses the talent they're given to the most they can not continue to play down to all competition. It all starts with an attitude of winning, they don't show this anymore.</P>


</P>

elaherb
12-19-2011, 12:11 PM
NO HE IS THE BOTTOM LINE.HE SHOULD HAVE FIRED WHO EVER IS IN THE BOOTH TELLING HIM TO CHALLENGE.HE HAS BEEN WRONG CONSTANLY.WE LOSE TIMEOUTS.THE OC&DC ARE TERRIBLE. BUTHE IS THE HC& IT SEEMS CANNOT GET THIS TEAM UP FOR IMPORTANT GAMES. ALSO REESE'S TALENT JUDGEMENT HAS WANED WE ARE HURT BY INJURIES ,BUT WHERE IS THE DEPTH.HE SAID THIS WAS THE MOST TALENT WE HAVE .SPECIAL TEAM COACH IS AWFUL,IWRITE THIS AS AFAN SINCXE THE POLO GROUNDS DAYS & AM TERRIBLY UPSET WITH THIS TEAM.

Tenspro2002
12-19-2011, 12:58 PM
if...

He were 30 years younger and knew how to get players in their 20s to rally around him and each other (and no, requiring them to be 5 minutes early to meetings and enforcing a curfew is not the way to do that), then I'd say we should keep him.

What's that? He's a grumpy old man who alienates 21st-century players? Well, I think we should let him go.

davmac2BB
12-19-2011, 01:15 PM
mara tell's him to get a new oc and dc.... i now hate fewell more than i hate gilbride and ive loathed gilbride for years

Changing the OC and DC is not going to do anything for this team right now.

It's proven that the only coaches that are on this team are the assistants that NO ONE covets! Coaches don't want to work for him.
Coughlin has had two OCs and four DCs during his eight years with the team, and with the exception of two season where he lucked out with Spags, the defense has been traditionally horrible. The offense is just as bad at times. You've had two OCs that are too STUPID to let their QB run a version of the K-Gun, even thought since his rookie year he has shown that he functions A LOT better in the hurry up offense where he is calling the plays. The OCs pass the ball more than throw it. The Run blocking is terrible from an assignment category and not a FREAKING trick play in the book!
The CBs play too far off inferior receivers and allow defenses to pass as will!No TC has to go and take all his s*t*y coaches with him!

hungrrrry
12-19-2011, 04:07 PM
NO HE IS THE BOTTOM LINE.HE SHOULD HAVE FIRED WHO EVER IS IN THE BOOTH TELLING HIM TO CHALLENGE.HE HAS BEEN WRONG CONSTANLY.WE LOSE TIMEOUTS.THE OC&DC ARE TERRIBLE. BUTHE IS THE HC& IT SEEMS CANNOT GET THIS TEAM UP FOR IMPORTANT GAMES. ALSO REESE'S TALENT JUDGEMENT HAS WANED WE ARE HURT BY INJURIES ,BUT WHERE IS THE DEPTH.HE SAID THIS WAS THE MOST TALENT WE HAVE .SPECIAL TEAM COACH IS AWFUL,IWRITE THIS AS AFAN SINCXE THE POLO GROUNDS DAYS & AM TERRIBLY UPSET WITH THIS TEAM.special teams is the only thing I am ok with this season...the offense is not horrible but the run game is horrendous and could get completely revamped if you asked me

jakegibbs
12-19-2011, 04:10 PM
mara tell's him to get a new oc and dc.... i now hate fewell more than i hate gilbride and ive loathed gilbride for years

If he can scrape this team off the deck & take them to another SB victory. Nothing less. That's the only way he stays.

JMFP2
12-19-2011, 04:16 PM
I'm a big Coughlin fan, but the time for a coaching staff purge might be 2 weeks away.

If Gilbride and Fewell are the top assistants he can recruit, then perhaps it's time for change at the top.

I hope that ownerships takes a hard look at the job Reese has done as well.....we have a cluster of overpaid, underperforming, often-injured players that are the product of his drafting and free agent moves. The Giants have cap issues because of Reese, not Coughlin.

I've been supportive of guys like Coughlin and Reeese for quite a while. I get it that Couglin is blamed more than Reese, because it's his job to manage the staff, and make sure the team is prepared.

And this Redskins debacle really was pathetic.....it brings back memories of rollovers against the Panthers, Vikings, etc.

But just remember, Mara served notice to everyone in the organization, including Reese. I'd really like our GM to do a much better job in terms of cutting dead wood in the offseason and replacing it with high energy, high character guys.

Reese utterly failed to do that after missing with a 10-6 team.....so a 9-7 team (at best) should surprise no one.

giantsforce
12-19-2011, 04:32 PM
mara tell's him to get a new oc and dc.... i now hate fewell more than i hate gilbride and ive loathed gilbride for yearsI would not let Coughlin work at the gates collecting tickets if I had any say.

JesseJames
12-19-2011, 05:09 PM
how many times are we going to give TC a pass and fire his co-ordinators, this has gone on for too long now, when a baseball team has back to back bad seasons the manager gets the ax but we keep giving TC a pass for whatever reason and fire one or 2 of his coaches. These coaches that get fired were hired by Coughlin, if they screwed the team then so did he and he can't keep stepping outside the problem when he is a big part of it..

BParcells777
12-19-2011, 09:01 PM
He paid me 10 million dollars and convinced Scarlett Johanson to move in with me....then I'd be cool with Tom until he passes

JJC7301
12-19-2011, 09:29 PM
I'd be willing to give Tom 1 more year, but this team needs an overhaul and that includes the coordinators.* And if you're going to do that, then you really need to get a new HC who can have a hand in choosing his own coordinators.</P>


I have a strong feeling that the FO will excuse this season due to injuries and the entire coaching staff will be back for one last hurrah.* I like TC, but I just don't like the idea of all of them being back.* I would like to see a lot of this roster gone as well.</P>I disagree with the roster bit...look at it like this:
You are having a snowfight...the team against you is an awesome snowball fighter but your guys can't even make a snowball...you are gonna lose right? Possibly! But your team might be great at making avalanches, thus squashing the snowball fighters...wouldn't you like that? I would.
Our defense was built to emphasize rushing the passer (causing avalanches) but our defensive leader (Fewell) is a snowball fighter so naturally our guys look inept in his system....I hope that helps.

It is easier to replace the DC because we definately have the talent to squash any offense we have seen this season.
That's the way that I used to see it myself, but the idea that this team consistently can't find it's "intensity" for the past few years means a lot. I do fault the coaching for the most part, but I feel that this team lacks leadership & intensity on the field.

DemandedAce
12-19-2011, 09:30 PM
mara tell's him to get a new oc and dc.... i now hate fewell more than i hate gilbride and ive loathed gilbride for years

Clearly TC cannot pick a good OC and DC and shows too much loyalty to fire someone who deserves it (Gilbride). So, no. I want the house cleaned.

nycisgreat
12-19-2011, 10:17 PM
mara tell's him to get a new oc and dc.... i now hate fewell more than i hate gilbride and ive loathed gilbride for years

LMAO. I am there with you. I said the same thing a couple of times. I couldn't imagine hating someone more the Gilbride, but Fewell has been on the top of my list for a while now.

I think the Giants may get rid of both the OC and DC. I am hoping they can get spags back, and make him the coach in waiting. I like the energy that he brought to this team.

At this point, Spags and the Giants sorely miss each other.

nycisgreat
12-19-2011, 10:21 PM
mara tell's him to get a new oc and dc.... i now hate fewell more than i hate gilbride and ive loathed gilbride for years

LMAO. I am there with you. I said the same thing a couple of times. I couldn't imagine hating someone more than Gilbride, but Fewell has been on the top of my list for a while now.

I think the Giants may get rid of both the OC and DC. I am hoping they can get spags back, and make him the coach in waiting. I like the energy that he brought to this team.

At this point, Spags and the Giants sorely miss each other.

NYfanatic
12-19-2011, 10:38 PM
No.