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dave56dj
10-29-2012, 06:44 PM
With keith rivers getting healthy - paysinger seeing some snaps it seems as though the giants might want to start SLOWLY rotating kiwi back into the end rotation. He is a step up from osi in the run game and can still get after the q and it leaves a more natrual LB against TE's in coverage. Obviously we need jwill to cover the faster te's in the league. Still osi is most likely a goner after the year and it might be that kiwi takes his natural spot back. He had his hand in the dirt more against San Fran but that was really to defense against their run attack and to protect the giants who did not want to rely on kuhn and austin to much. Kiwi is already rushing from inside and out on passing downs but has not rotated in as a de in the base. I wonder if we might see some more of this going forward - it would mean a lot more work for kiwi - a lot of assignments to remember but also more time off for tuck osi and even jpp to keep them fresh. I know no one wants jpp of the field but even he needs a breather and keeping them fresh is always a good idea.

VBGiantsFan
10-29-2012, 06:52 PM
Amen to this. Kiwi is a ten to twelve sack de if he wasca full time end. He never had a chance to show his full potentual for the position he was drafted for.

dave56dj
10-29-2012, 06:59 PM
I actually dont think he is a 10 to 12 sack guy (but maybe) but i do believe he is a better all around player then osi - NOW. I still believe osi will have a huge impact in a game with a strip sack and still has value as a pass rusher and is not the sieve people think he is in the run game - but also not the best either. I think kiwi is just the better all around player. I'd rather kiwi in the base - with rivers at LB and Osi in for pass situations, rather then kiwi at LB in the ba

Mercury
10-29-2012, 07:50 PM
The base DL is JPP, Canty, Linval, and Tuck. They are all playing better with Canty back in the game. Canty was a beast this last game. You don't take JPP or Tuck out of the game unless they need a rest. Osi is backup. Kiwi is a LB who plays DL in some situations. Get used to it.

Captain Chaos
10-29-2012, 07:57 PM
I like the idea of being able to throw some speed in their. Kiwi is killer on the run but not so much on the pass....

JB456
10-29-2012, 08:19 PM
The base DL is JPP, Canty, Linval, and Tuck. They are all playing better with Canty back in the game. Canty was a beast this last game. You don't take JPP or Tuck out of the game unless they need a rest. Osi is backup. Kiwi is a LB who plays DL in some situations. Get used to it.

I agree with this. Canty is an absolute monster and for all of those who think we should get rid of him, please look at the game tape and understand what he brings to the Giants defensive line.

dave56dj
10-29-2012, 08:23 PM
Actually this is not entirely true - the giants rotate d ends - sometimes for an entire series - JPP usually doesnt get the whole series off for obvious reasons - but tuck has and so has osi. Osi played in the base many times yesterday. Even when strey was playing they would rotate him out for a series to get him some rest.

Canty is a beast but he is a dtackle not an end - not sure why this is being talked about. I am talkin about our ends. Very rarely they will place canty as an end in a heavy base against superior run teams but its very sporadic.

slipknottin
10-29-2012, 08:25 PM
Amen to this. Kiwi is a ten to twelve sack de if he wasca full time end. He never had a chance to show his full potentual for the position he was drafted for.

What? He played DE more snaps than any other DE in the league in 2008, finished with 8 sacks.

Mercury
10-29-2012, 08:32 PM
I mentioned Canty and Linval Joseph, because Kiwi sometimes lines up at DT too. The point being for Kiwi to be on the DL, it means that someone, (JPP, Canty, Joseph, or Tuck) is not on the field. And while that can and should happen occasionally, it should not be too regular a thing.

Contrary to what you may think, Kiwi is not our best DE.

JB456
10-29-2012, 08:47 PM
Actually this is not entirely true - the giants rotate d ends - sometimes for an entire series - JPP usually doesnt get the whole series off for obvious reasons - but tuck has and so has osi. Osi played in the base many times yesterday. Even when strey was playing they would rotate him out for a series to get him some rest.

Canty is a beast but he is a dtackle not an end - not sure why this is being talked about. I am talkin about our ends. Very rarely they will place canty as an end in a heavy base against superior run teams but its very sporadic.

Sorry about that Canty tangent but I am getting kinda pumped about having him back. He is our best defensive tackle and he was disruptive yesterday and had several hits on Romo.

B&RWarrior
10-29-2012, 08:48 PM
Kiwi was never a dominate NFL DE. He was a speed rusher that was a liability when they ran straight at him due to his lack of strength.

Buddy333
10-29-2012, 09:26 PM
Didn't Rivers get hurt again yesterday?

giantsfan420
10-29-2012, 09:52 PM
Amen to this. Kiwi is a ten to twelve sack de if he wasca full time end. He never had a chance to show his full potentual for the position he was drafted for.
i agree. he already has a handful of sacks in limited DE use

giantsfan420
10-29-2012, 09:53 PM
What? He played DE more snaps than any other DE in the league in 2008, finished with 8 sacks.

and the most pressures

and in 08 he was still super raw/young...u say it like its a bad thing he played those snaps OUT OF NECESSITY bc osi went IR on us iirc...Kiwi was our best DE in 08...guy could be an absolute beast...he was so talented we moved him to LB...where he still looks so talented.

dont mind either way altho i could see with the new LB's worth playing we have, the way to keep the best players (kiwi) on the field may be to move him to DE ironically

slipknottin
10-29-2012, 10:00 PM
Tuck was a top 5 DE in 2008. Made the probowl and was first team all-pro.

dave56dj
10-29-2012, 11:20 PM
Rivers was not hurt yesterday, at least nothing reported and never came out.

Kiwi is now stronger against the run the osi - again the base now has tuck and jpp as ends with osi rotating in. Kiwi is only rotating in on nickel situations or pure pass defenses - he has not rotated in on base D except at LB of course- except in san fran game due to heavy rush. The point i was making is that he and rivers split snaps at LB and rotate him into the base at de as well.

burier
10-30-2012, 11:23 AM
I agree with this. Canty is an absolute monster and for all of those who think we should get rid of him, please look at the game tape and understand what he brings to the Giants defensive line.

Calm down guy. He only plays like that against the Cowboys. You might want to turn on the tape and see how he plays against every other team in the NFL.

burier
10-30-2012, 11:26 AM
Tuck was a top 5 DE in 2008. Made the probowl and was first team all-pro.

08 was like a lightyear ago. Right now he's middle of the pack on a good day and I'm being generous. For every 1 play he makes he's gets worked like a slave for another 10 plays. We'd get better production from anyone on our roster not named Osi.

WEG313
10-30-2012, 11:38 AM
08 was like a lightyear ago. Right now he's middle of the pack on a good day and I'm being generous. For every 1 play he makes he's gets worked like a slave for another 10 plays. We'd get better production from anyone on our roster not named Osi.

Perhaps, but I'll still take Tuck over Osi any day of the week. Given that it is JPP who is being doubleteamed, OSI has been almost invisible this year as a pass rusher, and he's always been below average against the run. Osi is the guy who has been the greatest disappointment so far this season, IMO.

slipknottin
10-30-2012, 12:59 PM
08 was like a lightyear ago. Right now he's middle of the pack on a good day and I'm being generous. For every 1 play he makes he's gets worked like a slave for another 10 plays. We'd get better production from anyone on our roster not named Osi.

I meant to reply to the post above mine saying Kiwi was the best DE on the team that year