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Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 10:50 AM
defense is 8th in points allowed. (right now)

Bradshaw is 9th in rushing averaging 4.5 yards a carry. (right now)

perry fewell first year with the giants the defense lead the league with 39 turnovers. (had 50 in total) ranked 16th in total yards allowed. 7th in points allowed. i think we were a top 5 defense that year.

In PF's second year the D struggled at the start of the season with injuries, but turned it up toward the end and we won another superbowl.

This season the giants have the 4th best record in the NFL at 6-2. we are leading the div by 2-3 games.

Are giant fans spoiled?


Discuss



edited a few errors

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 10:51 AM
No. We want consistency.

Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 10:57 AM
No. We want "perfection".

fixed

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 10:59 AM
No. I want consistency.I fixed what you fixed.

FBomb
10-30-2012, 11:01 AM
fixed

LOL....it really does seem like that around here.

Just win. It's the only stat that counts in my book. You will never see me complain after a win.

ashleymarie
10-30-2012, 11:02 AM
We wat TDs instead of FGs. There has to be a solution.

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 11:03 AM
We wat TDs instead of FGs. There has to be a solution.Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 11:04 AM
I fixed what you fixed.

defense consistently get turnovers. offense consistently make plays. this is why we lead the nfl in turnovers on d and we are one of the more explosive offenses this year.

again. you want perfection. no weakness. you want 8-0

RagTime Blue
10-30-2012, 11:06 AM
Cumulative stats are misleading, since most teams have had bye week already.

But honestly, our offense is like a batter in a slump. Hope we break out before it costs us games.

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 11:08 AM
defense consistently get turnovers. offense consistently make plays. this is why we lead the nfl in turnovers on d and we are one of the more explosive offenses this year.

again. you want perfection. no weakness. you want 8-0 Stop assuming you know what I want, you look silly.

How are we being consistent when you give up a 23 point lead? What about the run game? Is that consistent? Red zone? Our defense is good but we were literally inches away from giving up a 37 yard touchdown to Dez Bryant. Yes, it's one game, but that one game could have resulted in a loss and us being 1-3 in the division. Not to mention being 5-3 with the Cowboys one game behind, that's how close it was.

I just don't want a second half slump. We can't be giving up leads like that, and then stalling on offense.
We are a good team, and I know we will correct this but I can still be concerned from what I've seen.

Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 11:12 AM
Cumulative stats are misleading, since most teams have had bye week already.

But honestly, our offense is like a batter in a slump. Hope we break out before it costs us games.

only thing thats might be a little misleading are the defensive turnovers since we didnt have our bye week yet. everything else is all about averages.

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 11:14 AM
Oh and when Lawrence Tynes is kicking 5 FG's a game, you're going to be top 5 in scoring.

Razur
10-30-2012, 11:14 AM
defense consistently get turnovers. offense consistently make plays. this is why we lead the nfl in turnovers on d and we are one of the more explosive offenses this year.

again. you want perfection. no weakness. you want 8-0

If you ever listen to , read about, or watch post game videos, The coaches, players all echo exactly waht some of us here post...that the Giants, SHOULD be playing at their expected levels...the stats you quote are impressive..no doubt..but..think how much better they could be if the players and coaches all PERFORMED to the level they themselves admit they should be executing at.

rainierjef
10-30-2012, 11:16 AM
defense consistently get turnovers. offense consistently make plays. this is why we lead the nfl in turnovers on d and we are one of the more explosive offenses this year.

again. you want perfection. no weakness. you want 8-0

Sigh* stats are misleading
We had no turnovers vs the eagles who are a turn over machine
We got the bulk of our turnovers from Romo and the dysfunctional cowboys, go figure.

Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 11:20 AM
Stop assuming you know what I want, you look silly.

no my friend. you look silly because you just proved my point.


How are we being consistent when you give up a 23 point lead? What about the run game? Is that consistent? Red zone? Our defense is good but we were literally inches away from giving up a 37 yard touchdown to Dez Bryant. Yes, it's one game, but that one game could have resulted in a loss and us being 1-3 in the division. Not to mention being 5-3 with the Cowboys one game behind, that's how close it was.

everything you just spoke about for the exception of the run game, is in "one game". as far as the run game goes, you proved my point again. you want perfection, no weakness on offense. you want us to have one of the most explosive passing attacks and have an explosive running game.

what you want my friend, is a team with no weakness.

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 11:24 AM
no my friend. you look silly because you just proved my point.



everything you just spoke about for the exception of the run game, is in "one game". as far as the run game goes, you proved my point again. you want perfection, no weakness on offense. you want us to have one of the most explosive passing attacks and have an explosive running game.

what you want my friend, is a team with no weakness. Ok, I'm not going to waste my time going back and fourth if you're just going to assume and twist everything I say. See ya.

Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 11:29 AM
Oh and when Lawrence Tynes is kicking 5 FG's a game, you're going to be top 5 in scoring.

we are averaging about 29 points a game. how do you want us to score those 30 points rudyy? 4 touchdowns per game, or 9 field goals a game?

what weighs more? a pound of bricks or a pound of feathers?

think about it like this ruddy. the only team that is scoring more than us on offense is the patriots. we are SECOND IN SCORING. SECOND. RANKED #2. that means 2 things. the only teams are kicking more field goals than us, OR, the other teams are getting more touchdowns BUT arent scoring as much points as us.

Ill give you 1 more example. what would you rather? the offense move the ball down the field, get into the rezone 3 times and scores 3 field goals, or the offense moves the ball and only gets into the redzone once and scores a touchdown?..

last but not least, like i said, we are 2nd in scoring. if we turned those field goals into touchdowns, we would be 1st. we would achieve want you want. Perfection

Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 11:32 AM
.think how much better they could be if the players and coaches all PERFORMED to the level they themselves admit they should be executing at.

we would be the perfect team.

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 11:32 AM
we are averaging about 29 points a game. how do you want us to score those 30 points rudyy? 4 touchdowns per game, or 9 field goals a game?

what weighs more? a pound of bricks or a pound of feathers?

think about it like this ruddy. the only team that is scoring more than us on offense is the patriots. we are SECOND IN SCORING. SECOND. RANKED #2. that means 2 things. the only teams are kicking more field goals than us, OR, the other teams are getting more touchdowns BUT arent scoring as much points as us.

Ill give you 1 more example. what would you rather? the offense move the ball down the field, get into the rezone 3 times and scores 3 field goals, or the offense moves the ball and only gets into the redzone once and scores a touchdown?..

last but not least, like i said, we are 2nd in scoring. if we turned those field goals into touchdowns, we would be 1st. we would achieve want you want. PerfectionHow about actually scoring touchdowns and not FG's, EVERY TIME WE ARE IN THE RED ZONE. It's not like we can't move the ball down the field, we certainly can, but isn't it strange we can't get touchdowns? that has nothing to do with "perfection" that's execution, we aren't executing.

Don't believe me? Tom Coughlin is saying the same thing, Eli is saying the same thing. Our red zone offense is terrible, and it has been for some years now..I don't know how that correlates with "perfection". Are we going to score a touchdown on every possession? Hell no. Should we be scoring FG's every possession? HELL NO!

That's consistency, not perfection. I want to be consistent in the red zone. We can't keep getting 3's. Why? because our schedule gets so much harder. If you are fine with that then whoop-dee-doo, good for you.

Drez
10-30-2012, 11:38 AM
we are averaging about 29 points a game. how do you want us to score those 30 points rudyy? 4 touchdowns per game, or 9 field goals a game?

what weighs more? a pound of bricks or a pound of feathers?

think about it like this ruddy. the only team that is scoring more than us on offense is the patriots. we are SECOND IN SCORING. SECOND. RANKED #2. that means 2 things. the only teams are kicking more field goals than us, OR, the other teams are getting more touchdowns BUT arent scoring as much points as us.

Ill give you 1 more example. what would you rather? the offense move the ball down the field, get into the rezone 3 times and scores 3 field goals, or the offense moves the ball and only gets into the redzone once and scores a touchdown?..

last but not least, like i said, we are 2nd in scoring. if we turned those field goals into touchdowns, we would be 1st. we would achieve want you want. Perfection
There is a difference between what you are claiming as perfection with what the others are actually saying, that they are holding the Giants to a very high standard and would like to see the Giants play closer to their potential.

Is Tom Couglin spoiled, then? I mean, in his presser he was talking about improving our red zone scoring and correcting a lot of mistakes that we had made.

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 11:39 AM
There is a difference between what you are claiming as perfection with what the others are actually saying, that they are holding the Giants to a very high standard and would like to see the Giants play closer to their potential.

Is Tom Couglin spoiled, then? I mean, in his presser he was talking about improving our red zone scoring and correcting a lot of mistakes that we had made. Improving red zone scoring? He obviously wants perfection

Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 11:40 AM
How about actually scoring touchdowns and not FG's, EVERY TIME WE ARE IN THE RED ZONE. It's not like we can't move the ball down the field, we certainly can, but isn't it strange we can't get touchdowns? that has nothing to do with "perfection" that's execution, we aren't executing.

Don't believe me? Tom Coughlin is saying the same thing, Eli is saying the same thing. Our red zone offense is terrible, and it has been for some years now..I don't know how that correlates with "perfection". Are we going to score a touchdown on every possession? Hell no. Should we be scoring FG's every possession? HELL NO!

That's consistency, not perfection. I want to be consistent in the red zone. We can't keep getting 3's. Why? because our schedule gets so much harder. If you are fine with that then whoop-dee-doo, good for you.

You are missing the point. i know we arent good in the redzone, and i too want us to score more touchdowns. But, at the end of the day we are 6-2 and 2nd in scoring. we have the 4th best record.

that means

1. out of 31 teams, 30 teams are scoring less points.
2. out of 32 teams, 28 teams have a worse record.
3. ultimately, other teams have more problems than us.


which brings me back to my main point. Are giant fans spoiled?

discuss

ashleymarie
10-30-2012, 11:40 AM
Stop assuming you know what I want, you look silly.

How are we being consistent when you give up a 23 point lead? What about the run game? Is that consistent? Red zone? Our defense is good but we were literally inches away from giving up a 37 yard touchdown to Dez Bryant. Yes, it's one game, but that one game could have resulted in a loss and us being 1-3 in the division. Not to mention being 5-3 with the Cowboys one game behind, that's how close it was.

I just don't want a second half slump. We can't be giving up leads like that, and then stalling on offense.
We are a good team, and I know we will correct this but I can still be concerned from what I've seen.

Giving up a 23 point lead reminds us of that long ago Eagles game we gave away. Don't want any of that anymore, yet almost achieved the same results Sunday. Too close for comfort. We pulled it out with "FGs". What the heck? FGs? When we are that close to the end zone put up 7! And don't look back. Keep it rolling.

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 11:42 AM
Giving up a 23 point lead reminds us of that long ago Eagles game we gave away. Don't want any of that anymore, yet almost achieved the same results Sunday. Too close for comfort. We pulled it out with "FGs". What the heck? FGs? When we are that close to the end zone put up 7! And don't look back. Keep it rolling. Stop being logical!

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 11:44 AM
You are missing the point. i know we arent good in the redzone, and i too want us to score more touchdowns. But, at the end of the day we are 6-2 and 2nd in scoring. we have the 4th best record.

that means

1. out of 31 teams, 30 teams are scoring less points.
2. out of 32 teams, 28 teams have a worse record.
3. ultimately, other teams have more problems than us.


which brings me back to my main point. Are giant fans spoiled?

discuss Yes, some of us are spoiled because we would rather see more consistency in scoring than have Lawrence Tynes kick 6 FG's a game. Those pesky Giants fans are so spoiled, they gave up a 23 point lead to a division rival which almost led to a loss and they are upset at the performance! WHAT? BUT THEY LEAD THE LEAGUE IN SCORING! DOESN'T MATTER. Doesn't matter that they were inches away from losing. Doesn't matter that we have the toughest remaining schedule in the league, nope. More spoiled than milk.

Drez
10-30-2012, 11:46 AM
You are missing the point. i know we arent good in the redzone, and i too want us to score more touchdowns. But, at the end of the day we are 6-2 and 2nd in scoring. we have the 4th best record.

that means

1. out of 31 teams, 30 teams are scoring less points.
2. out of 32 teams, 28 teams have a worse record.
3. ultimately, other teams have more problems than us.


which brings me back to my main point. Are giant fans spoiled?

discuss
And what bearing does the performance of other teams have on out evaluation of the performance of ours?

Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 11:47 AM
There is a difference between what you are claiming as perfection with what the others are actually saying, that they are holding the Giants to a very high standard and would like to see the Giants play closer to their potential.

Is Tom Couglin spoiled, then? I mean, in his presser he was talking about improving our red zone scoring and correcting a lot of mistakes that we had made.

I understand what you're saying. for example, the fact that we are complaining this much after wins whether you want to believe it or not, it shows that we are a little spoiled. And when i say we i mean a lot of the guys here. even tom coughlin had good things to say after the game. Stevie brown had good things to say. But thats actually not what gets me. Its okay that after a game you say there a lot of things you need to work on and that you need to play better. thats cool.

This is where the real spoiled part comes into play. We are bashing our offensive coordinator day in and day out in spite of the fact we have aregably the second best offense in the league. why? because some of his calls are questionable "to the eyes of fans". I am willing to bet that 90% of the people bashing the play calling dont have "all 22". they just go by what they see on the tv.

Thats being spoiled.

Drez
10-30-2012, 11:56 AM
I understand what you're saying. for example, the fact that we are complaining this much after wins whether you want to believe it or not, it shows that we are a little spoiled. And when i say we i mean a lot of the guys here. even tom coughlin had good things to say after the game. Stevie brown had good things to say. But thats actually not what gets me. Its okay that after a game you say there a lot of things you need to work on and that you need to play better. thats cool.

This is where the real spoiled part comes into play. We are bashing our offensive coordinator day in and day out in spite of the fact we have aregably the second best offense in the league. why? because some of his calls are questionable "to the eyes of fans". I am willing to bet that 90% of the people bashing the play calling dont have "all 22". they just go by what they see on the tv.

Thats being spoiled.
People bashing KG are just morons. However, the OC is usually the most hated member of the coaching staff by fans league-wide.

I don't think it's being spoiled. We blew a 23-0 lead. We nearly blew a 5 point lead with under a minute left in the game. There are issues both on offense and defense that showed up on Sunday that have plagued the team all season, despite our successes (primarily red zone scoring and rushing on offense and giving up big plays in the passing game on defense).

Wanting to see those corrected doesn't make a fan spoiled, it just means they want to see the team play to the high level of which this team is capable.

rainierjef
10-30-2012, 11:58 AM
You are missing the point. i know we arent good in the redzone, and i too want us to score more touchdowns. But, at the end of the day we are 6-2 and 2nd in scoring. we have the 4th best record.

that means

1. out of 31 teams, 30 teams are scoring less points.
2. out of 32 teams, 28 teams have a worse record.
3. ultimately, other teams have more problems than us.


which brings me back to my main point. Are giant fans spoiled?

discuss

Tynes misses two of those field goals and we lose the game.
3 is nice but when you can get 7 you have to go for 7. the defense provided us with turnovers, reward them with TD's
The play calling in the red zone at times is predictable that's the only consistent thing about our red zone offense.
Canty said " it still took us a little luck to pull out this win." Why are we relying on luck to win games, then get upset when other rival fans or players say it was in fact luck that they won.
Put your foot on their neck and push down, No reason why we should be forcing 6 turnovers and only winning by 5 points.
No reason why we should be up by 23 point and only win because Dez braced himself for a hard fall.
Do this against any other team coming up on the schedule and we lose, then its a different tune on these boards.
I for one am not okay with mediocrity, what we saw on Sunday! that was not Giants football.

VBGiantsFan
10-30-2012, 12:01 PM
defense is 8th in points allowed. (right now)

Bradshaw is 9th in rushing averaging 4.5 yards a carry. (right now)

perry fewell first year with the giants the defense lead the league with 50 turnovers. ranked 3rd in total yards allowed. 6th in points allowed. i think we were a top 5 defense that year.

In PF's second year the D struggled at the start of the season with injuries, but turned it up toward the end and we won another superbowl.

This season the giants have the 4th best record in the NFL at 6-2. we are leading the div by 2-3 games.

Are giant fans spoiled?


Discuss

Stats are stats. The eye test will tell you we are not as good a defense as you would like us to believe under PF. That's not to say we are not opportunistic. We certainly are doing well with turnovers. However, we are FAR from a dominant defense which is what all of us on the board would like to have.

giantsforce
10-30-2012, 12:02 PM
Improving red zone scoring? He obviously wants perfectionYeah, why would we want to improve our red zone scoring? After all we scored 1 TD in 5 possessions inside the 20. Isn't that good enough?

stormblue
10-30-2012, 12:03 PM
yes , we have scored the 2nd most points in the league !!!!

unfortunately , most of 'em belong to Lawrence Tynes.

rainierjef
10-30-2012, 12:04 PM
the fact that we are complaining this much after wins whether you want to believe it or not,

complaining after a Win! not wins
anymore wins like this and I think these boards shut down.
Football is a game of habit, habit breeds consistency.
what was consistent about what you saw on Sunday?
Field goals in the end zone!
That does not get you anywhere far against better opponents.
Romo gave us the game wit his turnovers, if they did not exist we lose this game man.
If Romo only threw 2 Int's we lose this game.
does that not alarm you?
I am happy its a win, but the way we won is disgusting and I hope its corrected for next week, it seems you are okay with it.

Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 12:05 PM
Yes, some of us are spoiled because we would rather see more consistency in scoring than have Lawrence Tynes kick 6 FG's a game. Those pesky Giants fans are so spoiled, they gave up a 23 point lead to a division rival which almost led to a loss and they are upset at the performance! WHAT? BUT THEY LEAD THE LEAGUE IN SCORING! DOESN'T MATTER. Doesn't matter that they were inches away from losing. Doesn't matter that we have the toughest remaining schedule in the league, nope. More spoiled than milk.

Just so you know, if i choose not to reply to anymore of your posts its because you have evaded my main points in order to use sarcasm. I wont waste my time stressing the same facts to you which out weighs the negatives when you look at this team as a whole. When you decide to counter my argument in a more detailed way without contradicting yourself, then ill reply back to you. a perfect example of you contradicing yourself is stating you want consistency, but you only talk about 1 game where we had trouble scoring touchdowns in the redzone. we played 8. thank you

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 12:20 PM
Just so you know, if i choose not to reply to anymore of your posts its because you have evaded my main points in order to use sarcasm. I wont waste my time stressing the same facts to you which out weighs the negatives when you look at this team as a whole. When you decide to counter my argument in a more detailed way without contradicting yourself, then ill reply back to you. a perfect example of you contradicing yourself is stating you want consistency, but you only talk about 1 game where we had trouble scoring touchdowns in the redzone. we played 8. thank youI've already countered your argument and you give me that "I want perfection" bull crap. One game? ONE GAME HAVING PROBLEMS IN THE RED ZONE? LOL, we've been having trouble for sometime now. It's okay though, you're right and I'm wrong. You have facts and I only have game tape, that's not good enough.

Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 12:25 PM
I've already countered your argument and you give me that "I want perfection" bull crap. One game? ONE GAME HAVING PROBLEMS IN THE RED ZONE? LOL, we've been having trouble for sometime now. It's okay though, you're right and I'm wrong. You have facts and I only have game tape, that's not good enough.

i need you to answer 2 questions. thats all i ask of you.

1. we played 8 games this year. out of those 8, how many games have we had trouble in the redzone?


2. whats better. scoring touchdowns outside of the 20 yard line, or scoring touchdowns inside the 20?

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 12:31 PM
i need you to answer 2 questions. thats all i ask of you.

1. we played 8 games this year. out of those 8, how many games have we had trouble in the redzone?


2. whats better. scoring touchdowns outside of the 20 yard line, or scoring touchdowns inside the 20? The two Cowboys games, the Philadelphia game, the Redskins game(whom by the way has a very bad pass defense) So about 4 of the last 8 games.

2. Both. Anytime you have an opportunity to get touchdowns you need to make the most out of that. Especially against better teams.

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 12:41 PM
And since you like to use stats to help your claim, here's one for you.

So far, the Giants red zone scoring percentage is 44.44% That's less than half.
The last 3 games, it was 38.46%
The last game against Dallas was 25%

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

ashleymarie
10-30-2012, 12:43 PM
complaining after a Win! not wins
anymore wins like this and I think these boards shut down.
Football is a game of habit, habit breeds consistency.
what was consistent about what you saw on Sunday?
Field goals in the end zone!
That does not get you anywhere far against better opponents.
Romo gave us the game wit his turnovers, if they did not exist we lose this game man.
If Romo only threw 2 Int's we lose this game.
does that not alarm you?
I am happy its a win, but the way we won is disgusting and I hope its corrected for next week, it seems you are okay with it.

+1. It is and was alarming.

TonyNYG1
10-30-2012, 12:44 PM
defense is 8th in points allowed. (right now)

Bradshaw is 9th in rushing averaging 4.5 yards a carry. (right now)

perry fewell first year with the giants the defense lead the league with 50 turnovers. ranked 3rd in total yards allowed. 6th in points allowed. i think we were a top 5 defense that year.

In PF's second year the D struggled at the start of the season with injuries, but turned it up toward the end and we won another superbowl.

This season the giants have the 4th best record in the NFL at 6-2. we are leading the div by 2-3 games.

Are giant fans spoiled?


Discuss

This may be nitpicking, but your stats for Fewell's first year are NOT correct. We were 16th in ppg allowed and 7th in ypg allowed. We also forced 39 turnovers, not 50. Usually I wouldn't care about inaccuracies, but in the context of this thread it is worth noting.

TonyNYG1
10-30-2012, 12:46 PM
Also, this defense is not "good" or "fine" or any other word thrown around. Remember when everyone says "Oh, that team is only winning because of all the turnovers they get". Guess what? We're now that team. If we don't tighten up, we're in a world of trouble because the turnovers are not guaranteed.

Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 12:51 PM
The two Cowboys games, the Philadelphia game, the Redskins game(whom by the way has a very bad pass defense) So about 4 of the last 8 games.

2. Both. Anytime you have an opportunity to get touchdowns you need to make the most out of that. Especially against better teams.



in the redskins game we had 2 rushing touchdowns in the redzone and scored 3 touchdowns that game. tynes kicked 2 field goals and 1 was a 39 yard field goal. thats not in the red zone =)..

in the first cowboys game we scored 2 touchdowns and 1 field goal. the 2 touchdowns were in the red zone.

against the eagles our 2 touchdowns were in the red zone.

in regards to my second question, a touchdown is a touchdown. whether you score int he red zone or not it still counts as 6 points. You should understand the point i am trying to make being that we have 23 touchdowns and only 5 teams have more than us, (most of them not by much)..

now lets discuss you being wrong

FBomb
10-30-2012, 12:54 PM
You are missing the point. i know we arent good in the redzone, and i too want us to score more touchdowns. But, at the end of the day we are 6-2 and 2nd in scoring. we have the 4th best record.

that means

1. out of 31 teams, 30 teams are scoring less points.
2. out of 32 teams, 28 teams have a worse record.
3. ultimately, other teams have more problems than us.


which brings me back to my main point. Are giant fans spoiled?

discuss

The answer, of course is "Yes............I am"

I'm not satisfied with being #2 in anything. Our redzone offense suffers because of our run game!! Not playcalling or "lack of imagination" (Although we do tend to lean on plays that worked for us in the past that defenses have seen on tape a million times).

Simply put....we don't run the ball well most of the time. Good defenses know we can't, so they are being more physical with our receivers,and making it more difficult to get open. That is why our redzone offense is sputtering.

Eli surprised the other teams last year.....they are figuring it out. We need to figure out the run game.......I'd like to see Brown get more touches.

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 12:56 PM
in the redskins game we had 2 rushing touchdowns in the redzone and scored 3 touchdowns that game. tynes kicked 2 field goals and 1 was a 39 yard field goal. thats not in the red zone =)..

in the first cowboys game we scored 2 touchdowns and 1 field goal. the 2 touchdowns were in the red zone.

against the eagles our 2 touchdowns were in the red zone.

in regards to my second question, a touchdown is a touchdown. whether you score int he red zone or not it still counts as 6 points. You should understand the point i am trying to make being that we have 23 touchdowns and only 5 teams have more than us, (most of them not by much)..

now lets discuss you being wrongYes, let's discuss this

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct Because what you're saying isn't matching up with that stat.

http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?22263-Tom-Coughlin-addressing-Giants-red-zone-problems and this too.

stormblue
10-30-2012, 01:12 PM
no , i don't think we're spoiled.
i think we are tired of starting out the season at 5-3 or 6-2
just to wind up 9-7 and go to take a college crash course in "tie-breaker scenarios"to learn
enough math / science to figure our how to lose 5 of your last 8 regular season
games and still make the playoffs .

all the good teams get into "mid-season form" or "hit their stride" , while we get sloppy and lucky for
a couple cheap wins on the way to our mid-season swoon.
then all the "fire the coaching staff" threads lite up the boards (yes, i'm as guilty as the next guy)
this is not new , and we are tired of it. how's about a nice scenic 11-5 , 12-4 cruise every now and then.

yes , we have the rings.....but why can't we get 'em like ALI instead of Rocky.
why do have to do it the hard , painful way.

i'm not spoiled....i'm black and blue. we could duck a punch once in a while
and still be champs.

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 01:16 PM
no , i don't think we're spoiled.
i think we are tired of starting out the season at 5-3 or 6-2
just to wind up 9-7 and go to take a college crash course in "tie-breaker scenarios"to learn
enough math / science to figure our how to lose 5 of your last 8 regular season
games and still make the playoffs make the playoffs.

all the good teams get into "mid-season form" or "hit their stride" , while we get sloppy and lucky for
a couple cheap wins on the to our mid-season swoon.
this is not new , and we are tired of it.

yes , we have the rings.....but why can't we get 'em like ALI instead of Rocky.
why do have to do it the hard , painful way.

i'm not spoiled....i'm black and blue. we could duck a punch once in a while
and still be champs.Thank you.

Why do we have to lose 4 games in a row to start figuring things out?

Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 01:16 PM
Yes, let's discuss this

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct Because what you're saying isn't matching up with that stat.

http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?22263-Tom-Coughlin-addressing-Giants-red-zone-problems and this too.

it says our red zone percentage is only 44%. But ask yourself this. does that percentage have something to with that 1 bad game? if you took away that 1 game where we played bad in the red zone what would the percentage be? here is another reason that is misleading. what if we reach the red zone 5 times and score no touchdowns in one game. but it the next 5 games we reach the redzone once in each game and score a touchdown. that puts us at 50%. as i was saying. out of those 8 games. how many games could you say we played bad in the red zone?

" Coach Tom Coughlin, however, wasn't hired to put his feet up on the desk. Despite a 29-24 win over the Dallas Cowboys, he isn't pleased with New York's problems in the red zone."

again we are still talking about that one game.

BeatYale
10-30-2012, 01:17 PM
No. The more explosive offenses are the ones who finish more drives with touchdowns. Yardage wise we are on par with those teams, but not the same in scoring efficiency. Eli ranks 3rd in yards, but 10th in touchdown passes because too many of our drives come to a halt. We don't pass well and we don't run well in the red zone. It's a problem that has existed for a long time now.

Bradshaw averages 4.5 per carry? Man I wish he did average 4.5, no one would have a problem with him if he did. The truth is that his average is inflated from 2 good games. Brown averages 5.1 yards and David Wilson averages 5.2 btw.

BeatYale
10-30-2012, 01:21 PM
it says our red zone percentage is only 44%. But ask yourself this. does that percentage have something to with that 1 bad game? if you took away that 1 game where we played bad in the red zone what would the percentage be? here is another reason that is misleading. what if we score 5 touchdowns outside in the red zone but when we finally get inside the 20 yard line we end up with a field goal. for that game our percentage in the red zone would be 0% touchdown wise. that doesnt mean we struggled that game. as i was saying. out of those 8 games. how many games could you say we played bad in the red zone?

" Coach Tom Coughlin, however, wasn't hired to put his feet up on the desk. Despite a 29-24 win over the Dallas Cowboys, he isn't pleased with New York's problems in the red zone."

again we are still talking about that one game.

A better way to describe it is to just say we don't score enough touchdowns based on the amount of yardage we generate. Too many drives end up stalling when we're in enemy territory on the field.

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 01:23 PM
it says our red zone percentage is only 44%. But ask yourself this. does that percentage have something to with that 1 bad game? if you took away that 1 game where we played bad in the red zone what would the percentage be? here is another reason that is misleading. what if we score 5 touchdowns outside in the red zone but when we finally get inside the 20 yard line we end up with a field goal. for that game our percentage in the red zone would be 0% touchdown wise. that doesnt mean we struggled that game. as i was saying. out of those 8 games. how many games could you say we played bad in the red zone?

" Coach Tom Coughlin, however, wasn't hired to put his feet up on the desk. Despite a 29-24 win over the Dallas Cowboys, he isn't pleased with New York's problems in the red zone."

again we are still talking about that one game.I'm pretty sure Coughlin wouldn't be pissed from one game only. This has been happening for quite sometime.Oh, and we weren't so great in the red zone in San Fran either. Eli scored one touchdown, and AB ran for another. The rest were field goals.
You can't use the "what if we score 5 touchdowns" scenario because that hasn't happened, and it's difficult to predict.
You may want to look at that chart again, because the last 3 games we've been absolutely horrible in scoring touchdowns IN the red zone. Not just the one Cowboys game.

stormblue
10-30-2012, 01:26 PM
No. The more explosive offenses are the ones who finish more drives with touchdowns. Yardage wise we are on par with those teams, but not the same in scoring efficiency. Eli ranks 3rd in yards, but 10th in touchdown passes because too many of our drives come to a halt. We don't pass well and we don't run well in the red zone. It's a problem that has existed for a long time now.

Bradshaw averages 4.5 per carry? Man I wish he did average 4.5, no one would have a problem with him if he did. The truth is that his average is inflated from 2 good games. Brown averages 5.1 yards and David Wilson averages 5.2 btw.

"Bradshaw averages 4.5 per carry? Man I wish he did average 4.5, no one would have a problem with him if he did."

right on.
i showed the stats last week where over 60% of his yards are garbage yards when it didn't matter.
when you really need it for a first down or something in the red zone he rarely delivers anymore.
and we have younger stronger faster healthier x3 sittin' on the bench.

stormblue
10-30-2012, 01:30 PM
@Rudyy

"Why do we have to lose 4 games in a row to start figuring things out?"

i trulyy share your angst.

stormblue
10-30-2012, 01:43 PM
for all you stat lovers who think our offense is doin' just fine....
of all the top scoring teams out there how many of them have a kicker
with as many points as their QB.

without even looking it up.....i'm bettin' it's just us.

Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 01:50 PM
I'm pretty sure Coughlin wouldn't be pissed from one game only.

That one game we looked really bad. But this year for the majority of the games we played, we have done a solid job. You were 100% wrong about the redskins and the first cowboys game. you might be able to argue the eagles game since eli did throw a pick in the red zone, but if you enter the red zone 4 times and come up with 2 touchdowns, i wouldnt call it struggling there. its a glass half full, half empty thing. depends on how you feel.


the last 3 games we've been absolutely horrible in scoring touchdowns IN the red zone. Not just the one Cowboys game.

yes but thats only 2 games out of 8. honestly. you would make a good politician. you tell the truth, but dont add in the important details. Out of those 8 games we played, how many did we struggle with inside the red zone? the most you could point out is maybe 3 out of those 8 games.

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 01:56 PM
That one game we looked really bad. But this year for the majority of the games we played, we have done a solid job. You were 100% wrong about the redskins and the first cowboys game. you might be able to argue the eagles game since eli did throw a pick in the red zone, but if you enter the red zone 4 times and come up with 2 touchdowns, i wouldnt call it struggling there. its a glass half full, half empty thing. depends on how you feel.



yes but thats only 2 games out of 8. honestly. you would make a good politician. you tell the truth, but dont add in the important details. Out of those 8 games we played, how many did we struggle with inside the red zone? the most you could point out is maybe 3 out of those 8 games.I give you details, but once again you ignore them and belittle everything I say. But that's okay, many people are saying the same thing including our head coach and quarterback.

Obviously we aren't on the same page and won't get on the same page, that's fine. I respect your opinion.

OrangeGiant
10-30-2012, 01:57 PM
What people seem to forget is if you look at the games the Giants have played, the games where they have stuggled to run the ball the most and where the offense has been the most inconsitent were all against NFC East teams. Even though they scored 27 against Washington, they still didn't run the ball well. Divisional games are just different, they always are. These are the teams that know you the best, know your tendencies, your personnel from playing yout twice a year, sometimes 3 times a year counting the playoffs.

2-2 vs NFC East, 4-0 vs the rest. That isn't a coincidence. You can't read to much into how the Giants perform vs a divisional opponent, these are going to be the toughest games they play, even if the other teams in the division aren't as good as some of the other teams on the schedule. Does anyone think any team in the NFC East is better than the Niners?

FrankAE
10-30-2012, 02:02 PM
To be honest, when a football game is a blowout I stop watching, Giants winning or losing. I just have to much stuff to do to sit and watch a game that's not even competitive. The Giants know this and are helping me and everyone just like me enjoy football more. So relax, as long as they win lets embrace the victories.

Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 02:03 PM
I give you details, but once again you ignore them and belittle everything I say.

all you said was in the last 3 games we were bad scoring in the red zone. But if you look at it game to game, how many games did we struggle out of the 8?

you left out a very important part.



But that's okay, many people are saying the same thing including our head coach and quarterback.

i wont deny the fact that we had trouble scoring in the red zone in a few games, but you wont admit that out of the 8 games we played we have done solid if you take it game to game. There are certain games where we score touchdowns from outside the red zone. At the end of the day our offense is 2nd in scoring in the NFL and we have the 4th best record but fans are complaining after wins blaming the play calling? come on man. this is not the only win where there are more complaints than positive threads. its because the giants have spoiled us. our expectations are very high. we are super bowl champions after all. the patriots go through the same thing. their fans trash their team constantly.

Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 02:13 PM
ultimately, my philosophy is this. Right now everyone in the NFL is struggling. All teams have strengths and weaknesses. We have an explosive offense. whether we score touchdowns from outside the 20 yard line or inside the 20, it doesnt matter to me. as long as we are scoring touchdowns. Yes we struggled in a few game inside the red zone, but for the majority of the games we have done good. bashing the coaches and play calling is just being spoiled.

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 02:14 PM
all you said was in the last 3 games we were bad scoring in the red zone. But if you look at it game to game, how many games did we struggle out of the 8?

you left out a very important part.




i wont deny the fact that we had trouble scoring in the red zone in a few games, but you wont admit that out of the 8 games we played we have done solid if you take it game to game. There are certain games where we score touchdowns from outside the red zone. At the end of the day our offense is 2nd in scoring in the NFL and we have the 4th best record but fans are complaining after wins blaming the play calling? come on man. this is not the only win where there are more complaints than positive threads. its because the giants have spoiled us. our expectations are very high. we are super bowl champions after all. the patriots go through the same thing. their fans trash their team constantly.You're absolutely right in everything you just said, and I'm completely wrong.

giantsfan420
10-30-2012, 02:16 PM
I think a big part of our redzone struggles is due to what the score is and if we r trailing or ahead. In dallas, it seemed we were content with fgs early bc we just wanted to get points. The turnovers kept on giving us free points i dont think tc wanted to squander. I saw someone say well what if tynes missed those two fgs, we lose...but we won bc we made them too so u can t ignore that. With the way the game was going it just seemed we went into protect lead mode, and like the meltdown 2 we werent really able to just turn it on when needed altho eli did go 5/5 that drive to retake the lead, which again score dictated what we did. Fg gives us the lead.
I mean eli has even stated this somewhat when discussing coming from behind and knowing u need a td and playing differently when needing a fg. We jumped out to a lead that wasnt dictating a necessity for seven. And id gather that this trend follows suit in other games this year at least, where score and lead are dictating the level of urgency. Now love kg or hate him, at times for me its both altho hes made me at my crow, but this is an issue hes had historically, maybe its tc i dunno but when it seems we have any sorta lead or behind by a fg, we go into safe mode imo. I wish we were like n.o. or gb where it dont matter, a td is being scored. Those teams seem to treat each possession like its tied except for blatant scenarios...

Now in context to the op, yes i feel eli has spoiled us big time. Fgs are an issue when ur losing...not beating some pretty good teams. I had us winning by ten at least and it looked that way early, dallas completely took momentum but we won the fourth qrt as usual. I know we want tds every time, but we have most redzone trips at least we did a few weeks ago, our %redzone isnt great but it is not terrible.
vs dallas is was pretty bad and magnified bc of how the game played out and who the opponent was, but cmon. Its an issue we need to fix, to act like we lost four in a row bc of this is silly imho. We all see it is an issue, but take a strp back. 2innd

Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 02:22 PM
I think a big part of our redzone struggles is due to what the score is and if we r trailing or ahead. In dallas, it seemed we were content with fgs early bc we just wanted to get points. The turnovers kept on giving us free points i dont think tc wanted to squander. I saw someone say well what if tynes missed those two fgs, we lose...but we won bc we made them too so u can t ignore that. With the way the game was going it just seemed we went into protect lead mode, and like the meltdown 2 we werent really able to just turn it on when needed altho eli did go 5/5 that drive to retake the lead, which again score dictated what we did. Fg gives us the lead.
I mean eli has even stated this somewhat when discussing coming from behind and knowing u need a td and playing differently when needing a fg. We jumped out to a lead that wasnt dictating a necessity for seven. And id gather that this trend follows suit in other games this year at least, where score and lead are dictating the level of urgency. Now love kg or hate him, at times for me its both altho hes made me at my crow, but this is an issue hes had historically, maybe its tc i dunno but when it seems we have any sorta lead or behind by a fg, we go into safe mode imo. I wish we were like n.o. or gb where it dont matter, a td is being scored. Those teams seem to treat each possession like its tied except for blatant scenarios...

Now in context to the op, yes i feel eli has spoiled us big time. Fgs are an issue when ur losing...not beating some pretty good teams. I had us winning by ten at least and it looked that way early, dallas completely took momentum but we won the fourth qrt as usual. I know we want tds every time, but we have most redzone trips at least we did a few weeks ago, our %redzone isnt great but it is not terrible.
vs dallas is was pretty bad and magnified bc of how the game played out and who the opponent was, but cmon. Its an issue we need to fix, to act like we lost four in a row bc of this is silly imho. We all see it is an issue, but take a strp back. 2innd

thank you. and i just want to also point out, if bennett doesnt drop that pass at the one, we have 3 downs (maybe even 4) to punch it in for a touchdown. there were a lot of dropped passes that game. i dont think KG was playing for the field goals. even eli missed hixon on a play where if he hits him in stride he probably gets the first down. i just think the constant heat KG takes just isnt fair. the heat bradshaw is taking isnt also. Its gotten to the point where, unless we blow a team completely out, no one is happy.

giantsfan420
10-30-2012, 02:26 PM
What people seem to forget is if you look at the games the Giants have played, the games where they have stuggled to run the ball the most and where the offense has been the most inconsitent were all against NFC East teams. Even though they scored 27 against Washington, they still didn't run the ball well. Divisional games are just different, they always are. These are the teams that know you the best, know your tendencies, your personnel from playing yout twice a year, sometimes 3 times a year counting the playoffs.

2-2 vs NFC East, 4-0 vs the rest. That isn't a coincidence. You can't read to much into how the Giants perform vs a divisional opponent, these are going to be the toughest games they play, even if the other teams in the division aren't as good as some of the other teams on the schedule. Does anyone think any team in the NFC East is better than the Niners?
Perfectly said and excellent point. People need to read this post

pino
10-30-2012, 02:32 PM
We are fine. 6-2 is no fluke.

If the Cowboys would have went on their run in the first half, and the Giants did what they did in the second half, people would be talking about how the Giants are so awesome to overcome just a terrible first half and grind out a tough win.

My point is, just win baby. The Cowboys D played good at times, but they still gave up the lead right away.

giantsfan420
10-30-2012, 02:40 PM
Dont forget, teams have issues even scoring fgs in the redzone. Td rate was 44% iirc but overall i think at least a couple weeks ago, we had the highest redzone conversion %.
Fgs is an issue but more along the lines of like running out of room to store lombardis (lame attempt i know). Its an issue every team wojld love to have and really is an issue when its leading to losseS emphasis intended. Now i agree it could cost us a game or two looking ahead but im more confident kg/eli figure it out before too long

giantsfan420
10-30-2012, 02:48 PM
You're absolutely right in everything you just said, and I'm completely wrong.

Why do u keep acting like this? I havent seen marv disrespect u once in this thread hes just posting his opinion.. it seems mkore like u just want him to say he is completely wrong and u r right. U make good points and valid points and i dont even think marv is referring to u in his op, i wouldnt say ur being quoute unquote spoiled, ur addressing valid points but so is marv and regardless i just seen him presenting his stance.

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 02:50 PM
Why do u keep acting like this? I havent seen marv disrespect u once in this thread hes just posting his opinion.. it seems mkore like u just want him to say he is completely wrong and u r right. U make good points and valid points and i dont even think marv is referring to u in his op, i wouldnt say ur being quoute unquote spoiled, ur addressing valid points but so is marv and regardless i just seen him presenting his stance. I never said he disrespected me, not once. I already said I respect his opinion.

giantsfan420
10-30-2012, 02:54 PM
I didnt mean to sojnd like a jerk rudy if i did sorry and i think marv u need to also undrstand rudy and others arent happy only when we blow out a team altho i think we all love that, but in this case, WHEN WE SHOULD blow them out up 23, the concerns with the fgs are valid FOR THIS GAME. I agree marv that alot r spoiled and as u described, but in this case its a fine line imho.

No one seemed to have an issue with the rz prior to this last game, and now after a win it does seem like some r going wat overboard but some of that could be trolls lol

Drez
10-30-2012, 02:58 PM
for all you stat lovers who think our offense is doin' just fine....
of all the top scoring teams out there how many of them have a kicker
with as many points as their QB.

without even looking it up.....i'm bettin' it's just us.
Of the top 30 scorers in the NFL (which is out of 33 or 34 players due to ties), 28 are kickers.

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 02:58 PM
I didnt mean to sojnd like a jerk rudy if i did sorry and i think marv u need to also undrstand rudy and others arent happy only when we blow out a team altho i think we all love that, but in this case, WHEN WE SHOULD blow them out up 23, the concerns with the fgs are valid FOR THIS GAME. I agree marv that alot r spoiled and as u described, but in this case its a fine line imho.

No one seemed to have an issue with the rz prior to this last game, and now after a win it does seem like some r going wat overboard but some of that could be trolls lolWell even prior to the Cowboys game, it was frustrating at least to me personally. We aren't a blow out team, so people wishing for blow outs are going to keep wishing for a long time. I'm just tired of us being stalled in the red zone, no matter the reason.

stormblue
10-30-2012, 03:08 PM
To be honest, when a football game is a blowout I stop watching, Giants winning or losing. I just have to much stuff to do to sit and watch a game that's not even competitive. The Giants know this and are helping me and everyone just like me enjoy football more. So relax, as long as they win lets embrace the victories.

something better to do than watch the Giants ?
are you even allowed to THINK such sacrilege ; let alone say it out loud.

Drez
10-30-2012, 03:08 PM
That one game we looked really bad. But this year for the majority of the games we played, we have done a solid job. You were 100% wrong about the redskins and the first cowboys game. you might be able to argue the eagles game since eli did throw a pick in the red zone, but if you enter the red zone 4 times and come up with 2 touchdowns, i wouldnt call it struggling there. its a glass half full, half empty thing. depends on how you feel.



yes but thats only 2 games out of 8. honestly. you would make a good politician. you tell the truth, but dont add in the important details. Out of those 8 games we played, how many did we struggle with inside the red zone? the most you could point out is maybe 3 out of those 8 games.
We're averaging 2 TDs out of 4.5 RZ trips on the year. No matter how you slice it, that's just not good enough. It should be above 3.

Drez
10-30-2012, 03:09 PM
No one seemed to have an issue with the rz prior to this last game, and now after a win it does seem like some r going wat overboard but some of that could be trolls lol

That frankly is not true.

giantsfan420
10-30-2012, 03:15 PM
That frankly is not true.
where r the redzone posts prior to the dallas game? I know its been a nagging issue, just seemed like no one foucsed on it bc it wasnt a blaring issue for everyone like it is now.
the troll part is referring to some posts ive read about how we should give the win back, kg is the worst oc and needs to be fired, we r doomed etc...and again rz issue is valid, but there r some acting like its led to 6losses and we r in line for a top pick

Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 03:16 PM
Well even prior to the Cowboys game, it was frustrating at least to me personally. We aren't a blow out team, so people wishing for blow outs are going to keep wishing for a long time. I'm just tired of us being stalled in the red zone, no matter the reason.

There is only 1 thing i cant stand. and thats the constant blaming of the coaches. especially after a game where there were missed oppotunities because of dropped passes. you said something after the game that i just couldnt reply to at the time because i felt you were so out of touch with football.

you said "run, run pass so predictable". I feel like any person who truly understands the X's and O's of the game would never say something like that, and for 2 reasons.

the first reason has to do with probability. on first down you can either pass or run. on second down, you can either pass or run. There are only 2 types of plays in football, and there are different types of that play. so to say run run pass is being very narrow minded.

the second thing is that its a division game. You arent going to come up with a play that the other team hasnt seen or doesnt know about. what you have to do is set them up. Eli hikes the ball everything he says omha. But there were times when he would say omaha but the ball wouldnt be hiked in order to catch the other team off guard. (run, run, pass...) (run, run, pass) (run, run, pass,) (play action pass!!)..

I remember in one of the seasons rex ryan was coaching the jets, they made it deep into the playoffs to play the colts. before that game every time brad smith would get the ball in the wild cat, it was a run play. then BAM. in the playoff game he comes out in the wildcat. the colts are thinking run, but he passes and hits them with a big play.

its little things like these that many fans dont understand about the game. And no offense, I feel you are one of those fans.

Morehead State
10-30-2012, 03:19 PM
where r the redzone posts prior to the dallas game? I know its been a nagging issue, just seemed like no one foucsed on it bc it wasnt a blaring issue for everyone like it is now.
the troll part is referring to some posts ive read about how we should give the win back, kg is the worst oc and needs to be fired, we r doomed etc...and again rz issue is valid, but there r some acting like its led to 6losses and we r in line for a top pick
Our redzone performance has been very bad all season.
I don't understand the claim that it was only true at Dallas.
It was bad at SF, bad vs. Wash. and generally bad all season.

TheEnigma
10-30-2012, 03:21 PM
We had red zone issues against the 49ers and it was one of the few negatives brought up after that dominant victory. One does have to take into account that the 49ers and Cowboys defenses are pretty good this year so at least we aren't struggling against the likes of the Panthers or Bills. I think people just want the team to be more "polished" or perhaps the correct word would be disciplined from these last two games. 250 yards on the ground allowed to the Redskins? I don't care if it's a damn divisional game - That was just a horrible performance where no excuses apply. Almost blowing a 23-0 lead to a divisional rival that already beat us earlier in the year? Glad that Dez has those big hands or else we would be in a tough position looking ahead.

I'd be surprised if we can play like this against the Steelers and somehow get a win. I highly doubt we will get an abundance of turnovers against them this Sunday like we did against the Cowboys.

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 03:23 PM
There is only 1 thing i cant stand. and thats the constant blaming of the coaches. especially after a game where there were missed oppotunities because of dropped passes. you said something after the game that i just couldnt reply to at the time because i felt you were so out of touch with football.

you said "run, run pass so predictable". I feel like any person who truly understands the X's and O's of the game would never say something like that, and for 2 reasons.

the first reason has to do with probability. on first down you can either pass or run. on second down, you can either pass or run. There are only 2 types of plays in football, and there are different types of that play. so to say run run pass is being very narrow minded.

the second thing is that its a division game. You arent going to come up with a play that the other team hasnt seen or doesnt know about. what you have to do is set them up. Eli hikes the ball everything he says omha. But there were times when he would say omaha but the ball wouldnt be hiked in order to catch them off guard. (run, run, pass...) (run, run, pass) (run, run, pass,) (play action pass!!)..

its little things like these that many fans dont understand about the game. And no offense. I feel you are one of those fans.That's my opinion though. How would you feel if I said "Oh well stats are misleading and you are one of those fans who always base everything on stats". That wouldn't be fair at all. I've stated before that we obviously disagree and that's your opinion. I have my opinions, it doesn't make me a dumb fan because I believe something else. It's just a different opinion from yours.

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 03:24 PM
Our redzone performance has been very bad all season.
I don't understand the claim that it was only true at Dallas.
It was bad at SF, bad vs. Wash. and generally bad all season.I don't understand why it's hard to accept this fact.

Morehead State
10-30-2012, 03:24 PM
We had red zone issues against the 49ers and it was one of the few negatives brought up after that dominant victory. One does have to take into account that the 49ers and Cowboys defenses are pretty good this year so at least we aren't struggling against the likes of the Panthers or Bills. I think people just want the team to be more "polished" or perhaps the correct word would be disciplined from these last two games. 250 yards on the ground allowed to the Redskins? I don't care if it's a damn divisional game - That was just a horrible performance where no excuses apply. Almost blowing a 23-0 lead to a divisional rival that already beat us earlier in the year? Glad that Dez has those big hands or else we would be in a tough position looking ahead.

I'd be surprised if we can play like this against the Steelers and somehow get a win. I highly doubt we will get an abundance of turnovers against them this Sunday like we did against the Cowboys.
We were actually lousy in the red zone vs. the Panthers.

TheEnigma
10-30-2012, 03:28 PM
We were actually lousy in the red zone vs. the Panthers.

I would check right now but the NFL site is being a nuisance. I could of swore we ran the ball effectively in the red zone against them.

Edit: We were 3-6. Not great but lousy might be a bit much.

Drez
10-30-2012, 03:32 PM
where r the redzone posts prior to the dallas game? I know its been a nagging issue, just seemed like no one foucsed on it bc it wasnt a blaring issue for everyone like it is now.
the troll part is referring to some posts ive read about how we should give the win back, kg is the worst oc and needs to be fired, we r doomed etc...and again rz issue is valid, but there r some acting like its led to 6losses and we r in line for a top pick
The fact that you say it was a nagging issue says that it was a problem prior to the Dallas game. Now it's more on the front burner than the back.

Morehead State
10-30-2012, 03:32 PM
I would check right now but the NFL site is being a nuisance. I could of swore we ran the ball effectively in the red zone against them.
3 FG's inside the 15 vs. Carolina. I believe we were at 50% that night. Which isn't very good. And that was a day where we ran the ball well.
We are currently ranked 26th in 3rd down effieciency. Our worst performance since 2003.

Morehead State
10-30-2012, 03:34 PM
I would check right now but the NFL site is being a nuisance. I could of swore we ran the ball effectively in the red zone against them.

Edit: We were 3-6. Not great but lousy might be a bit much.
It was Carolina and that was a day we ran the ball well. This has to change when we start playing some of these good teams.
And we have done an especially poor job in converting turnovers into TD's.

Giants5699
10-30-2012, 03:35 PM
I want a super bowl

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 03:35 PM
The point is we are not a good red zone team, no matter where we rank in scoring.

TheEnigma
10-30-2012, 03:36 PM
Our worst red zone performance was actually against the Bucs with a 1-5 performance. The Skins Red zone was actually 2-3.

Morehead State
10-30-2012, 03:36 PM
The point is we are not a good red zone team, no matter where we rank in scoring.
Of course.
420's position seems to be that if we didn't complain about it before this week it must not be true.

TheEnigma
10-30-2012, 03:38 PM
It was Carolina and that was a day we ran the ball well. This has to change when we start playing some of these good teams.
And we have done an especially poor job in converting turnovers into TD's.

Compared to some other performances, 50% is a blessing for the Giants.

Drez
10-30-2012, 03:39 PM
We were actually lousy in the red zone vs. the Panthers.
I wouldn't say we were lousy, just mediocre. We were 3/6 (TDs) in the RZ against Carolina, with another 2 longer FGs.

Ideally, I'd like to see our RZ TDs up towards 65%. Considering how many times we get into the RZ, I think we can live with 2/3 being TDs.

Morehead State
10-30-2012, 03:40 PM
Compared to some other performances, 50% is a blessing for the Giants.
You do see the point though. We are not good in the red zone. We have gotten away with it so far but that certainly won't continue against teams like Baltimore and Pittsburgh. And if it happens vs. New Orleans the way that Drew Brees owns our secondary, we will certainly lose there as well.

Drez
10-30-2012, 03:42 PM
You do see the point though. We are not good in the red zone. We have gotten away with it so far but that certainly won't continue against teams like Baltimore and Pittsburgh. And if it happens vs. New Orleans the way that Drew Brees owns our secondary, we will certainly lose there as well.
Fortunately for us, our offense scores a lot from outside of the RZ.

Baltimore's defense isn't what it used to be, especially without Webb and Lewis.

NO owns us when we play in NO. It'll be a different story at MetLife in December. Brees tends to struggle more in the elements.

Morehead State
10-30-2012, 03:42 PM
I wouldn't say we were lousy, just mediocre. We were 3/6 (TDs) in the RZ against Carolina, with another 2 longer FGs.

Ideally, I'd like to see our RZ TDs up towards 65%. Considering how many times we get into the RZ, I think we can live with 2/3 being TDs.
Well the fact that we kicked two other FG's shows that we were stopped in the other team's zone. Just not inside the 20.
I suppose the real point here is that we are fine between the 20's. Lots of yards. But when its time to score TD's in the attacking zone, we have been poor.

NYGfanNC
10-30-2012, 03:45 PM
Honesttly, if we're winning by kicking FG's, I'm cool with that. Just win baby.

TheEnigma
10-30-2012, 03:45 PM
You do see the point though. We are not good in the red zone. We have gotten away with it so far but that certainly won't continue against teams like Baltimore and Pittsburgh. And if it happens vs. New Orleans the way that Drew Brees owns our secondary, we will certainly lose there as well.

Truth. I think that the people complaining about Giants fans being spoiled need to realize that since this team is the defending champions, the expectations for this team are going to be extremely high down to the finest of details. It's not like we are the Colts or Redskins with a rookie QB and are just looking to play good football. We're too talented for us to miss the playoffs. Too talented to get gashed for an enormous amount of yards on the ground. It's like this for any fanbase of a team defending a title.

Morehead State
10-30-2012, 03:46 PM
Fortunately for us, our offense scores a lot from outside of the RZ.

Baltimore's defense isn't what it used to be, especially without Webb and Lewis.

NO owns us when we play in NO. It'll be a different story at MetLife in December. Brees tends to struggle more in the elements.
Trust me, defenses know that we strike on the deep ball and will certainly make their defensive calls accordingly.
And I remember the last game where New Orleans came into Giants stadium and cleaned our clocks. It was an embarrassing loss at home.

Drez
10-30-2012, 03:47 PM
Well the fact that we kicked two other FG's shows that we were stopped in the other team's zone. Just not inside the 20.
I suppose the real point here is that we are fine between the 20's. Lots of yards. But when its time to score TD's in the attacking zone, we have been poor.
The other 2 FGs were at the 29 and 31, so they weren't exactly short FGs. I think a sack led to one of those FGs.

Morehead State
10-30-2012, 03:48 PM
Honesttly, if we're winning by kicking FG's, I'm cool with that. Just win baby.
Good thing our coaching staff doesn't share your view. Thats a recipe for losing. That's why TC made a point of it in his press conference.
He knows as most of us do that we won't beat these good teams coming up unless we get better in the red zone.

Morehead State
10-30-2012, 03:49 PM
The other 2 FGs were at the 29 and 31, so they weren't exactly short FGs. I think a sack led to one of those FGs.
So you are saying that we got stopped 5 times against a bad team (thats 5 out of 8) inside the 35 yard line.
You think this is a good thing?

stormblue
10-30-2012, 03:51 PM
Of the top 30 scorers in the NFL (which is out of 33 or 34 players due to ties), 28 are kickers.

credit the QB with 6 points per TD pass and re-evaluate.
the QB can't throw and catch it.

as in Eli 10 TD passes = 60 points , his keeker - Tynes 24 FG's = 72 points.

Peyton 17 TD'passes = 102 points , his keeker- Prater 9 FG's = 27 points

Brees 20 TD passes =120 points ,his keeker -Hartley 9 FG's = 27 points

even Brady's keeker who is 2nd only to Tynes still loses 126 to 51.

anyways you see what i'm tryin' to get at here .........we settle for way too many field goals.

Morehead State
10-30-2012, 03:51 PM
Truth. I think that the people complaining about Giants fans being spoiled need to realize that since this team is the defending champions, the expectations for this team are going to be extremely high down to the finest of details. It's not like we are the Colts or Redskins with a rookie QB and are just looking to play good football. We're too talented for us to miss the playoffs. Too talented to get gashed for an enormous amount of yards on the ground. It's like this for any fanbase of a team defending a title.
you are definitely right but its a lot better than settling for... "meaningful games in December".

Morehead State
10-30-2012, 03:52 PM
credit the QB with 6 points per TD pass and re-evaluate.
the QB can't throw and catch it.

as in Eli 10 TD passes = 60 points , his keeker - Tynes 24 FG's = 72 points.

Peyton 17 TD'passes = 102 points , his keeker- Prater 9 FG's = 27 points

Brees 20 TD passes =120 points ,his keeker -Hartley 9 FG's = 27 points

even Brady's keeker who is 2nd only to Tynes still loses 126 to 51.

anyways you see what i'm tryin' to get at here .........we settle for way too many field goals.

i hope that changes...I have Prater on my FF team.

Drez
10-30-2012, 03:52 PM
Trust me, defenses know that we strike on the deep ball and will certainly make their defensive calls accordingly.
And I remember the last game where New Orleans came into Giants stadium and cleaned our clocks. It was an embarrassing loss at home.
That was quite some time ago, though. ****, I think Tim Lewis was still our DC then, lol.

TheEnigma
10-30-2012, 03:58 PM
Our running against the Cowboys in the beginning of the game left a lot to be desired from me personally. We ran a bit too often towards the RT (Locklear) when it was obvious that much success wasn't going to be achieved there. The team needs to realize that Beatty is now the best run blocker on the OL and that's where the focus needs to be versus Locklear, who isn't the pre 2011 Kareem McKenzie.

stormblue
10-30-2012, 04:00 PM
The fact that you say it was a nagging issue says that it was a problem prior to the Dallas game. Now it's more on the front burner than the back.

its been an issue long enough for TC to actually refer to it as the "green zone"
to try put a positive attitude towards the situation.
a dumb term which i can't stand by the way.

Morehead State
10-30-2012, 04:01 PM
That was quite some time ago, though. ****, I think Tim Lewis was still our DC then, lol.
Brees is 3-0 against us. He's averaged more than 42 points against us in those games. He did it against 3 different DC's, including putting up 49 on our current DC.
Is it your view that he doesn't own our defense? I promise you, if we go 2 for 5 (which is about our average this season) against NO, we will lose.

Drez
10-30-2012, 04:02 PM
credit the QB with 6 points per TD pass and re-evaluate.
the QB can't throw and catch it.

as in Eli 10 TD passes = 60 points , his keeker - Tynes 24 FG's = 72 points.

Peyton 17 TD'passes = 102 points , his keeker- Prater 9 FG's = 27 points

Brees 20 TD passes =120 points ,his keeker -Hartley 9 FG's = 27 points

even Brady's keeker who is 2nd only to Tynes still loses 126 to 51.

anyways you see what i'm tryin' to get at here .........we settle for way too many field goals.
Eli has 12 Tds. Also, kickers get 1 point for each PAT.

However, save for the Pats, we have considerably more rushing TDs than the Saints or Broncos (3 and 5 respectively).

We also have more more trips into the redzone than both the Saints and Broncos (by 1.5 per game and nearly 1 per game, respectively). That means that we also have more opportunities to score FGs than either of those two teams.

Don't get me wrong, we need to score more TDs, I agree with you there, but first point was that kickers are always league leaders in scoring (and QBs actually don't get points for throwing TDs, the receivers do).

Drez
10-30-2012, 04:03 PM
Brees is 3-0 against us. He's averaged more than 42 points against us in those games. He did it against 3 different DC's, including putting up 49 on our current DC.
Is it your view that he doesn't own our defense? I promise you, if we go 2 for 5 (which is about our average this season) against NO, we will lose.
I just think Brees outside in December without Sean Payton isn't as daunting as it first seems.

Morehead State
10-30-2012, 04:05 PM
I just think Brees outside in December without Sean Payton isn't as daunting as it first seems.
So you are saying that we need to pray for bad weather?
I don't personally like that strategy.
And Brees has been prolific this season without Payton.
He's on a pace for 5300 yards and 46 TD's.

Drez
10-30-2012, 04:07 PM
So you are saying that we need to pray for bad weather?
I don't personally like that strategy.
And Brees has been prolific this season without Payton.
He's on a pace for 5300 yards and 46 TD's.
And how many wins has that left him with?

TheEnigma
10-30-2012, 04:10 PM
(15:00) 44-A.Bradshaw right tackle to NYG 22 for 2 yards (94-D.Ware, 99-K.Coleman).

(12:52) 44-A.Bradshaw right tackle to DAL 23 for no gain (99-K.Coleman).

(8:33) 22-D.Wilson right tackle to DAL 19 for 2 yards (99-K.Coleman; 97-J.Hatcher).

(7:54) (Shotgun) 44-A.Bradshaw right end to DAL 19 for no gain (90-J.Ratliff). Direct snap to Bradshaw. <---- That was just a bad play and wrong RB to go with.

Now we decided that, hey, maybe the right side isn't working...

(5:05) 44-A.Bradshaw left end to DAL 7 for 12 yards (40-D.McCray; 52-D.Connor). DAL-94-D.Ware was injured during the play. His return is Questionable.

(4:26) (Shotgun) 44-A.Bradshaw left tackle to DAL 1 for 6 yards (97-J.Hatcher).

(3:46) 35-A.Brown left end for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

Let's try the right side again!

(2:17) 22-D.Wilson right end to NYG 14 for -1 yards (54-B.Carter).

(:51) 44-A.Bradshaw right tackle to DAL 12 for 3 yards (59-E.Sims).

(:09) (Shotgun) 44-A.Bradshaw right tackle to DAL 13 for -1 yards (27-E.Frampton).

((So I think we know a huge part of why the offense struggled against the Cowboys now.))

stormblue
10-30-2012, 04:11 PM
Eli has 12 Tds. Also, kickers get 1 point for each PAT.

However, save for the Pats, we have considerably more rushing TDs than the Saints or Broncos (3 and 5 respectively).

We also have more more trips into the redzone than both the Saints and Broncos (by 1.5 per game and nearly 1 per game, respectively). That means that we also have more opportunities to score FGs than either of those two teams.

Don't get me wrong, we need to score more TDs, I agree with you there, but first point was that kickers are always league leaders in scoring (and QBs actually don't get points for throwing TDs, the receivers do).

yeah you're right about all that , i was just trying make an analogy there ;
trying point out that most of the other high scoring teams are doin' it
with their QB , not their kicker.

Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 04:11 PM
credit the QB with 6 points per TD pass and re-evaluate.
the QB can't throw and catch it.

as in Eli 10 TD passes = 60 points , his keeker - Tynes 24 FG's = 72 points.

Peyton 17 TD'passes = 102 points , his keeker- Prater 9 FG's = 27 points

Brees 20 TD passes =120 points ,his keeker -Hartley 9 FG's = 27 points

even Brady's keeker who is 2nd only to Tynes still loses 126 to 51.

anyways you see what i'm tryin' to get at here .........we settle for way too many field goals.

whats with these 1 sided facts? add the 10 rushing touchdowns and thats 70 more points.

Morehead State
10-30-2012, 04:11 PM
And how many wins has that left him with?
Well this is my point exactly. Their defense is lousy. Brees is putting up huge numbers and they are still losing by being outscored in generally high scoring games. If we have a red zone performance like many of the others we will be outscored by Brees.
Thats all I'm saying. I'm saying that we need to take advantage of our opportunities by scoring TD's. If we come up against good offenses, we have to.

I'm sure you agree.

Eliscruzzz
10-30-2012, 04:17 PM
MS is right.... no matter what Drew Brees record is it is usually going to be a shootout and if you settle for fg's you will lose. The redskins, Packers,Panthers won because they got td's not fg's and if we don't get our **** together in that area before that game I'm afraid it is going to be the same result.

Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 04:22 PM
. I'm saying that we need to take advantage of our opportunities by scoring TD's. If we come up against good offenses, we have to.


our offense has 1 less touchdown that the saints so far this year. we are averaging more points than them so far this season. and we have more total yards. you could argue we are more explosive than the saints right now.

Eliscruzzz
10-30-2012, 04:23 PM
our offense has 1 less touchdown that the saints so far this year. we are averaging more points than them so far this season. and we have more total yards. you could argue we are more explosive than the saints right now. The saints have also played one less game then us....

giantsfan420
10-30-2012, 04:25 PM
Of course.
420's position seems to be that if we didn't complain about it before this week it must not be true.

What??? Does bad weather effect old people brain? I am pointing out how around HERE on these mbs, that for all ur genius, u and no one else aside from a statement here or there, ever addressed the rz issues. I know theyve been an issue going on years now really and i hate it. I was just saying it didnt seem to bother anyone before the dallas game and now ppl act like we lost our last 5games bc of it....lol ur funny man

Marvelousmik
10-30-2012, 04:25 PM
The saints have also played one less game then us....

well we are averaging more yards and points than them per game. but since they played 1 less game id assume those touchdowns would go up by at least 3 more.

Eliscruzzz
10-30-2012, 04:29 PM
well we are averaging more yards and points than them per game. but since they played 1 less game id assume those touchdowns would go up by at least 3 more.Who knows I'm just stating that they played one less game.

TheEnigma
10-30-2012, 04:32 PM
What??? Does bad weather effect old people brain? I am pointing out how around HERE on these mbs, that for all ur genius, u and no one else aside from a statement here or there, ever addressed the rz issues. I know theyve been an issue going on years now really and i hate it. I was just saying it didnt seem to bother anyone before the dallas game and now ppl act like we lost our last 5games bc of it....lol ur funny man

The red zone issues were a much larger part of the story against the Cowboys this time because of how close the game was in the final seconds. Hindsight says that if only one of those FGs was a TD instead, the mainstream sports media would never be talking about Dez's end zone moment or the final 10 seconds and how the clock seemed to be slow.

Now go to the 49ers game which was another horrible performance in terms of red zone production but because the game never became close again, everyone was focused on how bad Alex Smith performed and how the Giants beat the 49ers with their own game. That's just how the story goes my friend when the game is a close victory versus a dominant performance.

stormblue
10-30-2012, 04:36 PM
whats with these 1 sided facts? add the 10 rushing touchdowns and thats 70 more points.

go ahead ... but you'd have to do that for the other teams too......
it doesn't change the fact that we score 3 instead of 7 more often than any other high powered offense out there.
Brady , Peyton, Brees , Rodgers , heck...not even Romo have OC's that waste a bunch of downs trying to run it in the red zone.
yeah, 1st and goal from the 2 yard line..i get that.
but we do the 1st and 10 on the 18 and do Bradshaw twice for a total of 3 yards ....then either hit or miss the fade in the corner of the endzone
and then kick a field goal.
or that quick sideline out to the WR for 3 yards. and then kick a field goal.

and yes i'm exagerating a little and over simplifying but you either get what i'm saying or you don't.

CowboysSuck
10-30-2012, 04:40 PM
Admittedly, I only read the first 3 pages of this thread, but damnnnn. Some people are crazy. WE ARE 6-2. SIX WINS ONLY 2 LOSSES. that is a 75% winning margin. Would it be great if we could score every time we got into the Redzone? Sure...but so wouldnt every team.

My goodness, the way some people think (Rudyy in particular) you would think of these guys as robots. These aren't robots, they are people. Home Sapiens. Not Roboto Sapiencus. Nobody and no team is mistake free, it is a fact of life. 31 other teams want to score more in the redzone (by my math thats every single team in the NFL) Just because we (you cite TC, Eli, etc.) also want to score more TD's in the Redzone doesnt give any more validity to your complaining little voices. Spolied much? LOL

We are atop the division, playing mostly mistake free football, and WINNING GAMES. Get over yourselves.

Drez
10-30-2012, 04:42 PM
What??? Does bad weather effect old people brain? I am pointing out how around HERE on these mbs, that for all ur genius, u and no one else aside from a statement here or there, ever addressed the rz issues. I know theyve been an issue going on years now really and i hate it. I was just saying it didnt seem to bother anyone before the dallas game and now ppl act like we lost our last 5games bc of it....lol ur funny man
Just because it wasn't an issue we were all *****ing about doesn't mean that it wasn't an area of concern.

Drez
10-30-2012, 04:43 PM
Admittedly, I only read the first 3 pages of this thread, but damnnnn. Some people are crazy. WE ARE 6-2. SIX WINS ONLY 2 LOSSES. that is a 75% winning margin. Would it be great if we could score every time we got into the Redzone? Sure...but so wouldnt every team.

My goodness, the way some people think (Rudyy in particular) you would think of these guys as robots. These aren't robots, they are people. People. Nobody is mistake free. It happens. 31 other teams want to score more in the redzone. Just because we do too doesnt make any one of your complaining little voices any more valid.

We are a top the division, playing mostly mistake free football, and WINNING GAMES. Get over yourselves.
Just because we are winning doesn't mean that there aren't areas in need of improvement. Redzone TD scoring is one of those areas.

giantsfan420
10-30-2012, 04:44 PM
The red zone issues were a much larger part of the story against the Cowboys this time because of how close the game was in the final seconds. Hindsight says that if only one of those FGs was a TD instead, the mainstream sports media would never be talking about Dez's end zone moment or the final 10 seconds and how the clock seemed to be slow.

Now go to the 49ers game which was another horrible performance in terms of red zone production but because the game never became close again, everyone was focused on how bad Alex Smith performed and how the Giants beat the 49ers with their own game. That's just how the story goes my friend when the game is a close victory versus a dominant performance.

I know all this, i was merely making a fairly simple observation

CowboysSuck
10-30-2012, 04:44 PM
Just because we are winning doesn't mean that there aren't areas in need of improvement. Redzone TD scoring is one of those areas.

Of course we have room for improvement. So does every team in sports in every sport on Earth.

Complaining that we need to be close to 100% efficient is a pipe dream.

stormblue
10-30-2012, 04:45 PM
The saints have also played one less game then us....

and 52 less offensive plays.

Drez
10-30-2012, 04:47 PM
Of course we have room for improvement. So does every team in sports in every sport on Earth.

Complaining that we need to be close to 100% efficient is a pipe dream.
I mentioned this earlier, but I'd be satisfied if we were closer to 65%. Especially considering we get into the RZ a lot, 65% would be excellent. If we ever hit 75% or higher we'd be damn nigh unstoppable.

CowboysSuck
10-30-2012, 04:47 PM
you hear that Drez, Rudy, rainier, and all you winers? A ****in PIPE DREAM.

Someone call the wahhmbulance for these guys...

CowboysSuck
10-30-2012, 04:48 PM
I mentioned this earlier, but I'd be satisfied if we were closer to 65%. Especially considering we get into the RZ a lot, 65% would be excellent. If we ever hit 75% or higher we'd be damn nigh unstoppable.

What is our TD conversion % in the Redzone? And what is our overall scoring % in the Redzone? And how does that stack up against the other 31 teams in the league?

giantsfan420
10-30-2012, 04:50 PM
If we did lose to dallas, with how many gift opportunities they gave us, itd be one of the worst losses ive seen. It was way too close at the end. I think part of the issues we had vs dallas and even other teams, is when we get a lead, the urgency of getting a td seems to dissappear. We have a bad habit of getting complacent in those situations

TheEnigma
10-30-2012, 04:50 PM
Of course we have room for improvement. So does every team in sports in every sport on Earth.

Complaining that we need to be close to 100% efficient is a pipe dream.

I don't think anyone with a credible standpoint honestly expects 100% efficiency but it has to be realized and stated several times that the team who is defending the title always has high expectations not only from the sports media but from it's own fanbase. In terms of improvement, where do you go after winning a championship? You do it again but with more efficiency and domination.

Now if we were the Kansas City Chiefs and people were moaning about this win, I would be siding with the OP here. Just getting a victory would be huge for that team but with the 2012 New York Giants, wins are expected and people want them to be less sloppy than recent games. There's a fine line between "I wanna win them all and have 300+ net points!" mentality versus "Well we won the game but there certainly are areas we need improvement on".

Eliscruzzz
10-30-2012, 04:52 PM
you hear that Drez, Rudy, rainier, and all you winers? A ****in PIPE DREAM.

Someone call the wahhmbulance for these guys...lol what?? I'm not sure about you but I sure do want them to improve in that area 44% with the weapons we have is unacceptable. I do agree with you that we are 6-2 thank God but there is no reason why we should be able to move it in between the 20's and playing for fg's.

Drez
10-30-2012, 04:52 PM
What is our TD conversion % in the Redzone? And what is our overall scoring % in the Redzone? And how does that stack up against the other 31 teams in the league?
It was posted earlier in the thread, but we're sitting at about 44% in RZ TD scoring, which I believe is 26th in the NFL (despite the fact that we have the second most trips to the RZ). Not too sure what it is with FGs... I'd imagine it's north of 90%, though.

stormblue
10-30-2012, 04:52 PM
you hear that Drez, Rudy, rainier, and all you winers? A ****in PIPE DREAM.

Someone call the wahhmbulance for these guys...

hey , i was whining too , make sure that ambulance brings enough high quality meds for me too !!

Drez
10-30-2012, 04:55 PM
you hear that Drez, Rudy, rainier, and all you winers? A ****in PIPE DREAM.

Someone call the wahhmbulance for these guys...
Who's whining?

I just don't think we're spoiled because we want to see better TD RZ efficiency. Obviously, that make Tom Coughlin a whiner, too, because he's saying the same thing.

CowboysSuck
10-30-2012, 04:56 PM
storm, I let the wahramedics know your were taking a ride in the wahhmbulence too.

44% in Redzone Td's with 98% scoring in Redzone. 2nd in league in scoring, 6-2 record. idk guys, its hard for me to be pissed.

CowboysSuck
10-30-2012, 04:56 PM
Who's whining?

I just don't think we're spoiled because we want to see better TD RZ efficiency. Obviously, that make Tom Coughlin a whiner, too, because he's saying the same thing.

You're missing my point. EVERY team wants better Redzone efficiency, what makes us so special?

Drez
10-30-2012, 04:57 PM
You're missing my point. EVERY team wants better Redzone efficiency, what makes us so special?
Because we are 26th in the NFL in RZ scoring.

CowboysSuck
10-30-2012, 04:58 PM
I dont put too much stock in statistics anyway. Not even in stats class. Were winning. Until we start losing more than were winning....its all good fellas. Enjoy the wins we get!

TheEnigma
10-30-2012, 05:01 PM
I dont put too much stock in statistics anyway. Not even in stats class. Were winning. Until we start losing more than were winning....its all good fellas. Enjoy the wins we get!

...And people are doing just that. Is it wrong for people to discuss what needs to be improved so that the team can become even better and that the product will be superior from the previous week?

CowboysSuck
10-30-2012, 05:05 PM
No, but its annoying to hear some of you never content. Were not the coaches, we arent the ones who need to be worried about what adjustment we need to make.

We are the fans. This is entertainment. This is fun. Enjoy the winning times and celebrate after wins. Get pissed after losses and gripe and moan. Right now weere in winning times. Be happy for once. Gee, and I thought I was a pessimist...

BeatYale
10-30-2012, 05:14 PM
Our redzone performance has been very bad all season.
I don't understand the claim that it was only true at Dallas.
It was bad at SF, bad vs. Wash. and generally bad all season.

Agree. I don't understand why people assume it's a new issue.

http://www.ffmastermind.com/fantasy-football-red-zone-analysis.php

QB TD % from redzone pass attempts from past 3 seasons. Eli fanatics, please relax. I understand you guys have a hard time not getting sensitive over Eli and view every negative truth as a threat. I won't hold it against you fellas. The point is to elaborate on our passing redzone struggles. Eli and the offense need to improve. Teams with lesser QB's are getting better redzone production from their offenses. Eli is elite. Ok? Go Giants.

Peyton 28% (missed a season, but still had 160+ redzone attempts)
Brady 27%
Stafford 27%
Rodgers 26%
Rivers 25%
Cutler 25%
Romo 25%
Cassel 25%
Brees 24%
Ryan 24%
Palmer 24%
Shaub 23%
Fitzpatrick 23%
Freeman 23%
Flacco 22%
Big Ben 21%
Eli 20%
Orton 19%
Sanchez 19%
Hasselbeck 18%
Smith 18%
Vick 17%

"But but but it's only a smaller percentage difference." Whatever helps people deflect attention from it. I prefer to just acknowledge the problem.

TheEnigma
10-30-2012, 05:22 PM
No, but its annoying to hear some of you never content. Were not the coaches, we arent the ones who need to be worried about what adjustment we need to make.

Right but doesn't the majority of this forum give their opinions on what part of the team needs improvement or what players should be starting/earning more snaps? Even just saying "Wilson needs more carries because of X" is talking about adjustments and hence, worrying in your book.


We are the fans. This is entertainment. This is fun. Enjoy the winning times and celebrate after wins. Get pissed after losses and gripe and moan. Right now weere in winning times. Be happy for once. Gee, and I thought I was a pessimist...

I'd have to respectfully disagree on your view of what pertains to pessimism on these forums. Pointing out a weakness on the team using statistics isn't seeing things in a negative light and in the same light, pointing out a strength isn't seeing things optimistically. Those are just facts. Now if someone said "Oh god it's the red zone, here comes our FG!" every time, that would be pessimism.

Morehead State
10-30-2012, 05:28 PM
The red zone issues were a much larger part of the story against the Cowboys this time because of how close the game was in the final seconds. Hindsight says that if only one of those FGs was a TD instead, the mainstream sports media would never be talking about Dez's end zone moment or the final 10 seconds and how the clock seemed to be slow.

Now go to the 49ers game which was another horrible performance in terms of red zone production but because the game never became close again, everyone was focused on how bad Alex Smith performed and how the Giants beat the 49ers with their own game. That's just how the story goes my friend when the game is a close victory versus a dominant performance.
Exactly,
We all know the red zone performance has been bad. I'm sure its been discussed here as well. But it definitely showed itself this week when we failed to convert 5 turnovers into TD's. (well 4 turnovers since JPP saved the offense the humiliation of failing again by taking the pick into the endzone himself). And it came within a fingertip on the end line of costing us the football game.

This is a problem. I'm sorry that 420 isn't satisfied due to the fact that he disapproves of our lack of whining previously about it. We'll make sure to whine at a level that satisfies him from here on out.

Morehead State
10-30-2012, 05:31 PM
No, but its annoying to hear some of you never content. Were not the coaches, we arent the ones who need to be worried about what adjustment we need to make.

We are the fans. This is entertainment. This is fun. Enjoy the winning times and celebrate after wins. Get pissed after losses and gripe and moan. Right now weere in winning times. Be happy for once. Gee, and I thought I was a pessimist...
Nonsense. there is absolutely nothing wrong with discussing problems we see now that could cause problems down the road, especially as our schedule becomes more challenging.
We have gotten away with it so far but logic suggests that won't continue.
We are all very happy to have the wins. But we want more wins.

Drez
10-30-2012, 05:40 PM
Were winning. Until we start losing more than were winning....its all good fellas. Enjoy the wins we get!
With an attitude like that thank god you have absolutely nothing to do with the Giants' coaching staff.

stormblue
10-30-2012, 05:41 PM
Agree. I don't understand why people assume it's a new issue.

http://www.ffmastermind.com/fantasy-football-red-zone-analysis.php

QB TD % from redzone pass attempts from past 3 seasons. Eli fanatics, please relax. I understand you guys have a hard time not getting sensitive over Eli and view every negative truth as a threat. I won't hold it against you fellas. The point is to elaborate on our passing redzone struggles. Eli and the offense need to improve. Teams with lesser QB's are getting better redzone production from their offenses. Eli is elite. Ok? Go Giants.

Peyton 28% (missed a season, but still had 160+ redzone attempts)
Brady 27%
Stafford 27%
Rodgers 26%
Rivers 25%
Cutler 25%
Romo 25%
Cassel 25%
Brees 24%
Ryan 24%
Palmer 24%
Shaub 23%
Fitzpatrick 23%
Freeman 23%
Flacco 22%
Big Ben 21%
Eli 20%
Orton 19%
Sanchez 19%
Hasselbeck 18%
Smith 18%
Vick 17%

"But but but it's only a smaller percentage difference." Whatever helps people deflect attention from it. I prefer to just acknowledge the problem.


i am so glad Moorehead and Harvard jumped in.

Drez
10-30-2012, 05:42 PM
Agree. I don't understand why people assume it's a new issue.

http://www.ffmastermind.com/fantasy-football-red-zone-analysis.php

QB TD % from redzone pass attempts from past 3 seasons. Eli fanatics, please relax. I understand you guys have a hard time not getting sensitive over Eli and view every negative truth as a threat. I won't hold it against you fellas. The point is to elaborate on our passing redzone struggles. Eli and the offense need to improve. Teams with lesser QB's are getting better redzone production from their offenses. Eli is elite. Ok? Go Giants.

Peyton 28% (missed a season, but still had 160+ redzone attempts)
Brady 27%
Stafford 27%
Rodgers 26%
Rivers 25%
Cutler 25%
Romo 25%
Cassel 25%
Brees 24%
Ryan 24%
Palmer 24%
Shaub 23%
Fitzpatrick 23%
Freeman 23%
Flacco 22%
Big Ben 21%
Eli 20%
Orton 19%
Sanchez 19%
Hasselbeck 18%
Smith 18%
Vick 17%

"But but but it's only a smaller percentage difference." Whatever helps people deflect attention from it. I prefer to just acknowledge the problem.
Does that factor in rushing TDs?

Rudyy
10-30-2012, 05:45 PM
you hear that Drez, Rudy, rainier, and all you winers? A ****in PIPE DREAM.

Someone call the wahhmbulance for these guys... Oh good God...

Morehead State
10-30-2012, 05:54 PM
i am so glad Moorehead and Yale jumped in.
Me too!

(But I'm guessing he'd rather be called Harvard)

Marvelousmik
10-31-2012, 12:32 AM
Who's whining?

I just don't think we're spoiled because we want to see better TD RZ efficiency. Obviously, that make Tom Coughlin a whiner, too, because he's saying the same thing.

if you are bashing the coaching staff and players you are spoiled. expressing concern is one thing. calling for people to be fired and calling out the OC on every negative play is different.

Marvelousmik
10-31-2012, 12:37 AM
...And people are doing just that. Is it wrong for people to discuss what needs to be improved so that the team can become even better and that the product will be superior from the previous week?

nope. nothing wrong with talking about what needs to be improved upon. After all this is what these boards are about. discussing football. I just dont agree with the bashing of the coaches and players every week. I just dont agree with 90% of the threads being negative. Bradshaw goes for 200 yards, all you hear is "HES BACK> BRADHSAW IS THE MAN!.. He has an off game and all of a sudden hes washed up again. Thats being spoiled. You cant expect him to rush for 100 yards every game.

giantsforce
10-31-2012, 12:51 AM
It was posted earlier in the thread, but we're sitting at about 44% in RZ TD scoring, which I believe is 26th in the NFL (despite the fact that we have the second most trips to the RZ). Not too sure what it is with FGs... I'd imagine it's north of 90%, though.In the Dallas game we had a 25% conversion rate which is even worse than our normal. Is the Dallas D that great? I do not think so.

Marvelousmik
10-31-2012, 01:45 AM
This reply came late because i had lost power in my building from the storm. Im not perfect so if some of the numbers are off please feel free to correct me.

Game 1 vs the cowboys We came out with 2 touchdowns and a field goal in the red zone.

game 2 vs the bucs, we came out with 3 field goals and 1 touchdown in the red zone

game 3 vs we came out with 3 touchdowns and 3 field goals in the red zone

game 4 vs the eagles we scored 3 times out of 4 inside the red zone. 2 of them were touchdowns, 1 was a field goal. 1 int

game 5 vs the browns we scored 3 touchdowns in the red zone and 1 field goal

game 6 vs the 49ers we scored 4 field goals in the red zone and 2 touchdowns in the red zone

game 7 vs the redskins we scored 2 touchdowns in the red zone and 1 field goal in the red zone

game 8 vs the cowboys we scored 1 touchdown in the red zone and kicked 1 field goal in the red zone. (all other field goals were kicked from at least 37 yards out. technically that's not inside the red zone.

If we play a game where we are in the red zone twice and we come out with 1 touchdown and 1 field goal, then we scored a touchdown on 50% of the times we were in the red zone. Like i said its a glass half full glass half empty thing. I dont look at it as a bad thing.

I like to look at things from a positive stand point. out of the 8 games we played, in only 2 games did we score more field goals than touchdowns in the red zone. In the 8 games there were 4 games where we scored more touchdowns in the red zone than field goals ( not including the eagles game since eli threw a pick). The rest has been even, and i dont see it as a bad thing.

In fact in both of the games where we scored more field goals than touchdowns in the red zone we won, and in the games we lost, we scored more touchdowns in the red zone than field goals. So that whole point about needing to score more touchdowns in the red zone in order to win is only some what valid. In order to win, we need to score more points than the other team whether its in the red zone or not. And thats what we have been doing.

What this ultimately comes down to is if you feel scoring touchdowns on 50% of the time you are in the red zone is a bad thing. I personally don't think so, some of you may. there are games where we play horrible in the red zone but my stance still remains. out of the 8 games, In the majority of the games we havent done bad in that area.
Could it improve? Yes. Should we bash the coaches and call out KG? No.

We are 4th in total yards and second in scoring points. Im happy that we are able to move the ball into the red zone to begin with. id rather us move the ball in the red zone 3 times and score 3 field goals than to only get there once and score a touch down. There are many positives to the team and i like to look at the whole picture. What is the whole picture? we are 2nd in scoring, 4th in total yards, and 6-2. Yet people are bashing our OC and running back, who by the way is averaging 4.5 yards a carry. Thats being spoiled.

Expressing concern is one thing. Bashing the team is different. Our team is going out there and giving it all they have. Many of you stated you're not big on stats. Then dont look at it. Look at the tape and how hard this team is playing. Thats all that matters, and thats what wins games. We're 6-2 and have the steelers coming up. Im done with this whole thing. Lets just win again

thats my 2 cents, take it or leave it.

stormblue
10-31-2012, 02:20 AM
storm, I let the wahramedics know your were taking a ride in the wahhmbulence too.

44% in Redzone Td's with 98% scoring in Redzone. 2nd in league in scoring, 6-2 record. idk guys, its hard for me to be pissed.

much obliged CS.

stormblue
10-31-2012, 02:23 AM
Me too!

(But I'm guessing he'd rather be called Harvard)

holy crap.....i better edit that.
and just when i thought i was gaining a smidge of street cred......damnit.

Captain Chaos
10-31-2012, 04:59 AM
Interesting Arguement, I think it is good to want to see the team perform at a high level. Look what they did at San Fran...Totally dominated that game. It is reasonable to want the team to play close to that same level every week. Seems their play has dropped off.... The Secondary gave up a ton of yards and that is an issue, they can do better. The red zone offense was terrible as well and we have seen them execute well against very good d's before. Not taking away from Dallas I give them their props Whitten is amazoing; but they should not have been that effective. I think the G'men let down a bit and let them back into the game.

stormblue
10-31-2012, 09:39 AM
finally , 16 pages later.
calm ,calculated wisdom prevails.

CC for prez.

Morehead State
10-31-2012, 10:13 AM
finally , 16 pages later.
calm ,calculated wisdom prevails.

CC for prez.
You know that those are actually my initials.
How did you know?

Rudyy
10-31-2012, 10:20 AM
if you are bashing the coaching staff and players you are spoiled. expressing concern is one thing. calling for people to be fired and calling out the OC on every negative play is different.But nobody is bashing anyone. Everyone is expressing concern. It's not like people are predicting losses left and right, we are just concerned at our performance.

We know they are working hard, and I don't blame anyone for anything but when the coach says "We've been trying forever" to correct red zone problems, that's bothersome.

Morehead State
10-31-2012, 10:25 AM
But nobody is bashing anyone. Everyone is expressing concern. It's not like people are predicting losses left and right, we are just concerned at our performance.

We know they are working hard, and I don't blame anyone for anything but when the coach says "We've been trying forever" to correct red zone problems, that's bothersome.
This is a strange thread. everyone is arguing but we all seem to agree.
I love it!

Rudyy
10-31-2012, 10:31 AM
This is a strange thread. everyone is arguing but we all seem to agree.
I love it!Everyone agrees except for the OP lol.

GreenZone
10-31-2012, 11:10 AM
Here are the TD Scoring stats Redzone NFL Stats (http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct)

Compared to the November Giant's record of late, this redzone topic in this thread lacks a lot of meaning. The former is about W's and the latter is for those with nothing substantive to complain about, and thus, disappointed this year.

Morehead State
10-31-2012, 11:13 AM
Here are the TD Scoring stats Redzone NFL Stats (http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct)

Compared to the November Giant's record of late, this redzone topic in this thread lacks a lot of meaning. The former is about W's and the latter is for those with nothing substantive to complain about, and thus, disappointed this year.
OK...which is former and which is latter?
I have no idea what you are saying here.

Mistanihan
10-31-2012, 12:13 PM
I just want wins. I don't care how ugly, if we have a higher number of points at the end of the game then I am happy.

BeatYale
10-31-2012, 12:19 PM
Here are the TD Scoring stats Redzone NFL Stats (http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct)

Compared to the November Giant's record of late, this redzone topic in this thread lacks a lot of meaning. The former is about W's and the latter is for those with nothing substantive to complain about, and thus, disappointed this year.

What did you just say?

stormblue
10-31-2012, 12:20 PM
You know that those are actually my initials.
How did you know?

i've been stuck at home watchin' re-runs of the Mentalist.
i must be coming down with that psychic bug.

BeatYale
10-31-2012, 12:24 PM
(But I'm guessing he'd rather be called Harvard)

lol someone actually got it!

BeatYale
10-31-2012, 12:35 PM
Does that factor in rushing TDs?

Nah it's just passing touchdown numbers in the redzone. I was just getting at the fact that teams with QB's that aren't as good as Eli still manage to get better efficiency in redzone passing. I'm sure this problem stems beyond the past 3 seasons, the only constants are KG and Eli and I like to believe KG is the main culprit.

GameTime
10-31-2012, 12:35 PM
6-2 with room for improvement....

is that so ****ing hard to comprehend......:)

stormblue
10-31-2012, 12:35 PM
Here are the TD Scoring stats Redzone NFL Stats (http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct)

Compared to the November Giant's record of late, this redzone topic in this thread lacks a lot of meaning. The former is about W's and the latter is for those with nothing substantive to complain about, and thus, disappointed this year.

that chart shows exactly what everybody is concerned about.
according to YOUR chart....
the Giants have fallen from last years 9th ranked red zone efficiency rating of 54%
all the way down to 44% this year which is ranked 26th,

why are you posting stats that contradict and discredit your own point ?

stormblue
10-31-2012, 12:40 PM
6-2 with room for improvement....

is that so ****ing hard to comprehend......:)

i can , with certainty , say that there are 3 teams in the NFC EAST that would gladly accept
that scenario with no questions asked.

rainierjef
10-31-2012, 07:12 PM
it says our red zone percentage is only 44%. But ask yourself this. does that percentage have something to with that 1 bad game?

Does us being the league leader in turnovers have something to do with the cowboys one bad game?

rainierjef
10-31-2012, 07:16 PM
No, but its annoying to hear some of you never content. Were not the coaches, we arent the ones who need to be worried about what adjustment we need to make.

We are the fans. This is entertainment. This is fun. Enjoy the winning times and celebrate after wins. Get pissed after losses and gripe and moan. Right now weere in winning times. Be happy for once. Gee, and I thought I was a pessimist...

So then deactivate your message board account, or go back to lurking.

rainierjef
10-31-2012, 07:24 PM
you hear that Drez, Rudy, rainier, and all you winers? A ****in PIPE DREAM.

Someone call the wahhmbulance for these guys...

I can triage myself. thanks

giantsfan420
10-31-2012, 07:26 PM
Lmao

rainierjef
10-31-2012, 07:32 PM
^ this

Drez
10-31-2012, 10:29 PM
Nah it's just passing touchdown numbers in the redzone. I was just getting at the fact that teams with QB's that aren't as good as Eli still manage to get better efficiency in redzone passing. I'm sure this problem stems beyond the past 3 seasons, the only constants are KG and Eli and I like to believe KG is the main culprit.
But, what do those teams red zone rushing numbers look like, including situationally?

BeatYale
11-01-2012, 12:21 AM
But, what do those teams red zone rushing numbers look like, including situationally?

I don't know. I can't find data on that.

BeatYale
11-01-2012, 12:39 AM
This reply came late because i had lost power in my building from the storm. Im not perfect so if some of the numbers are off please feel free to correct me.

Game 1 vs the cowboys We came out with 2 touchdowns and a field goal in the red zone.

game 2 vs the bucs, we came out with 3 field goals and 1 touchdown in the red zone

game 3 vs we came out with 3 touchdowns and 3 field goals in the red zone

game 4 vs the eagles we scored 3 times out of 4 inside the red zone. 2 of them were touchdowns, 1 was a field goal. 1 int

game 5 vs the browns we scored 3 touchdowns in the red zone and 1 field goal

game 6 vs the 49ers we scored 4 field goals in the red zone and 2 touchdowns in the red zone

game 7 vs the redskins we scored 2 touchdowns in the red zone and 1 field goal in the red zone

game 8 vs the cowboys we scored 1 touchdown in the red zone and kicked 1 field goal in the red zone. (all other field goals were kicked from at least 37 yards out. technically that's not inside the red zone.

If we play a game where we are in the red zone twice and we come out with 1 touchdown and 1 field goal, then we scored a touchdown on 50% of the times we were in the red zone. Like i said its a glass half full glass half empty thing. I dont look at it as a bad thing.

I like to look at things from a positive stand point. out of the 8 games we played, in only 2 games did we score more field goals than touchdowns in the red zone. In the 8 games there were 4 games where we scored more touchdowns in the red zone than field goals ( not including the eagles game since eli threw a pick). The rest has been even, and i dont see it as a bad thing.

In fact in both of the games where we scored more field goals than touchdowns in the red zone we won, and in the games we lost, we scored more touchdowns in the red zone than field goals. So that whole point about needing to score more touchdowns in the red zone in order to win is only some what valid. In order to win, we need to score more points than the other team whether its in the red zone or not. And thats what we have been doing.

What this ultimately comes down to is if you feel scoring touchdowns on 50% of the time you are in the red zone is a bad thing. I personally don't think so, some of you may. there are games where we play horrible in the red zone but my stance still remains. out of the 8 games, In the majority of the games we havent done bad in that area.
Could it improve? Yes. Should we bash the coaches and call out KG? No.

We are 4th in total yards and second in scoring points. Im happy that we are able to move the ball into the red zone to begin with. id rather us move the ball in the red zone 3 times and score 3 field goals than to only get there once and score a touch down. There are many positives to the team and i like to look at the whole picture. What is the whole picture? we are 2nd in scoring, 4th in total yards, and 6-2. Yet people are bashing our OC and running back, who by the way is averaging 4.5 yards a carry. Thats being spoiled.

Expressing concern is one thing. Bashing the team is different. Our team is going out there and giving it all they have. Many of you stated you're not big on stats. Then dont look at it. Look at the tape and how hard this team is playing. Thats all that matters, and thats what wins games. We're 6-2 and have the steelers coming up. Im done with this whole thing. Lets just win again

thats my 2 cents, take it or leave it.

Cool story bro.

Tynes leads the league in field goal attempts, and it's not even close. He's already surpassed the amount of total FG attempts he had last season. Too many drives are stalling in enemy territory. It's a valid issue.

BillTheGreek
11-01-2012, 01:13 AM
OK I have the answer.........You want to get to the TOP of 100th floor FIRST, to win a prize ............... some teams take an elevator to get there, some take an escalator, The Giants walk up, but still get there FIRST ! In other words, what ever works that produces WINS. I personally would like to take an elevator.......making a first down on 3rd and 1 and TD's in the Red Zone.This would make life a Lot easier. However, it don't always work out that way. ...... I go along with TC ...Tom says this needs improving.

TheEnigma
11-01-2012, 03:48 AM
Cool story bro.

Tynes leads the league in field goal attempts, and it's not even close. He's already surpassed the amount of total FG attempts he had last season. Too many drives are stalling in enemy territory. It's a valid issue.

He's on pace to break David Akers record of 166 points by a kicker in a season from last year with 94 at the moment and needs another 26 FG attempts to tie Akers 52 attempts from last season. Kind of shocking when I realized this.

miked1958
11-01-2012, 04:32 AM
I just want wins. I don't care how ugly, if we have a higher number of points at the end of the game then I am happy.yep it didn't help the patriots in 07 to set all those STAT records all that season did it.Also it didn't help GB and their Discount Double Check QB Rodgers last season now did it

miked1958
11-01-2012, 04:34 AM
They all can have the stats. Give us the hardware (rings) and Titles..... we need to keep giving the Jets more area to cover up during their home games... Lol

Buddy333
11-01-2012, 05:13 AM
Can't read through the entire thread. They are bad in the red zone and their defense has given up huge plays all season with the exception of two games. Their defense is horrible and I have been defending them for a while now.

stormblue
11-01-2012, 05:46 AM
yep it didn't help the patriots in 07 to set all those STAT records all that season did it.Also it didn't help GB and their Discount Double Check QB Rodgers last season now did it

no.....

but it did give them a 1st round bye and home field through out the playoffs.
and even though that doesn't guarantee a ring , it is still an extreme advantage.

Drez
11-01-2012, 06:31 AM
I don't know. I can't find data on that.
I know for this season we have the second or third most rushing TDs at 10 (though I'm sure a few of those were from outside the RZ). However, the Broncos only have 5 rushing TDs... The Saints 3. So, those QBs will end up having more passing TDs (also considering they average fewer trips to the RZ than us).

And that doesn't even take into account our insistence on running (so, situationally we may end up in more obvious passing situations) or how often Eli checks into a run from a pass. Take for instance a couple weeks ago (can't remember if it was against WAS or SF), but Eli checks into a run and Bradshaw rips off a 13 yd TD. That play doesn't count towards Eli's "RZ efficiency," but was most certainly a good call on Eli's part. Nor does it take into account BS calls against us like the non-Ballard TD call against the Pats last season that took a TD off the board.

However, I think it's telling that if you take a look at the 3 year efficiency list that he's ranked 9th. Sure, we'd all like that to be higher, but that isn't too shabby.

Drez
11-01-2012, 06:33 AM
He's on pace to break David Akers record of 166 points by a kicker in a season from last year with 94 at the moment and needs another 26 FG attempts to tie Akers 52 attempts from last season. Kind of shocking when I realized this.
The only difference is we are getting more RZ attempts than SF last season. I can guarantee you that Tynes already has around 75% as many PAT attempts as Akers did all of last season.

Edit: Just looked it up. Akers last season only had 34 PATs. This season Tynes already has 23 or 24.

miked1958
11-01-2012, 10:46 AM
no.....

but it did give them a 1st round bye and home field through out the playoffs.
and even though that doesn't guarantee a ring , it is still an extreme advantage.That has not really been an advantage if you look at recent years. Dallas was number 1 seed and home field throughout in 07. lost in 1st round to us. Pats were 1st overall that year in AFC and lost to us in SB. the 2nd seeds that also had byes that year were GB who lost to us in nfccg and the colts who lost in 1st game to SD. So none of the teams with the byes made out to well with all of them losing to a lesser (WC Team) except for NE.



08 you had 3of the top 4 seeds lose in their first game. Giants had #1 seed and bye and lost in 1st game to #6 philly. Tenn had #1 seed in AFC and lost to #6 seed Ravens. Carolina had #2 overall seed in NFC and lost to #4 AZ in their 1st game. Steelers were #2 overall seed in AFC and won SB.



09 the theory worked as the overall number 1 in AFC and NFC played each other for the TITLE. Saints vs Colts. also that year the # 2 overall seed vikings maded it to the NFCCG to play the #1 saints. SD the #2 overall seed in AFC lost in their 1st game.


10 both #1 overall seeds lost again in their first round action Falcons hammered by #6 GB and NE beaten by #6 Jets. #2 overall seed Bears made it to NFCCG to lose to GB and Steelers # 2 overall in AFC lost to the 6th seed Packers in SB

last year all 3/4 top seeds did what they were supposed to do and won their opening game. GB being the only odd one out being a number one 15-1 one and done. AFC had 1vs2 and we played the #1 Pats who again lost to a lesser team in SB.

miked1958
11-01-2012, 10:55 AM
so just looking at number 1 seeds over those 5 seasons. thats ten games. out of those ten games the number 1 seed lost 6times in their opening game.


of the 4 that won their opening game twice the #1 Pats lost in SB. and the 1 odd time that the two #1s played each other in SB.

So #1s overall in those 5 seasons won the SB 1 time.

Quick check on overall #2s. in the 5 seasons the overall # 2 made SB twice with a 1-1 record.. Both times were the Steelers. Other then that they mostly lost in opening game or in their CG.

miked1958
11-01-2012, 11:02 AM
So i guess you are CORRECT if you look at history OVERALL. the Bye and HF throughout usually adds up to an easier path to a Title. The Bye allows you to rest hurt players who otherwise may have missed the playoffs. But in recent past the bye has not treated top teams to well.


just saying

stormblue
11-01-2012, 11:15 AM
there will always be exceptions to the norm.
but you can't count on a helmet catch.....or that last second
sick endzone pass big ben threw to screw the cardinals or
manningham's miracle.

i would rather have the bye and home field.

you prefer the tougher wild card route......fine with me , the ring still counts either way.

miked1958
11-01-2012, 07:32 PM
there will always be exceptions to the norm.but you can't count on a helmet catch.....or that last secondsick endzone pass big ben threw to screw the cardinals or manningham's miracle.i would rather have the bye and home field.you prefer the tougher wild card route......fine with me , the ring still counts either way.i think it's more getting hot at the end of the year with something to prove in the playoffs. Going in with momentum. Vs being a team like GB last season who didn't play a meaningful game the whole last month of the season. They they had to sit around for their bye. Rodgers isn't even play in their last game. So he went a full 3 weeks before taking a snap against the giants and the rust showed on him and his WRs that dropped a ton of passes...I'd rather stay hot and keep playing. Yep it's an extra game but it has worked out nicely for the giants, steelers, packers and others

Moke
11-01-2012, 07:34 PM
defense is 8th in points allowed. (right now)

Bradshaw is 9th in rushing averaging 4.5 yards a carry. (right now)

perry fewell first year with the giants the defense lead the league with 39 turnovers. (had 50 in total) ranked 16th in total yards allowed. 7th in points allowed. i think we were a top 5 defense that year.

In PF's second year the D struggled at the start of the season with injuries, but turned it up toward the end and we won another superbowl.

This season the giants have the 4th best record in the NFL at 6-2. we are leading the div by 2-3 games.

Are giant fans spoiled?


Discuss



edited a few errors

How many points has Tynes scored for us?

Rudyy
11-01-2012, 07:34 PM
How many points has Tynes scored for us?Too many.

Rudyy
11-01-2012, 07:40 PM
http://www.bigblueview.com/2012/11/1/3587912/kevin-gilbride-i-think-we-can-be-better

JJC7301
11-01-2012, 08:24 PM
As a Giant fan, I don't think that I'm spoiled. We have a defense that, IMO, does not play like a shut down D. They've been inconsistent in getting to the QB and our secondary has let up to many 3rd-and-longs.

Overall, I'm elated with our Special Teams, I like our O but feel that the running game can be more consistent if they used Andre Brown more, and I believe that our D needs to step up more. We should have an excellent D-line and excellent secondary, and don't feel that they've even sniffed excellence this year.