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View Full Version : if andre brown could pass protect



VBGiantsFan
10-31-2012, 03:12 AM
we would have a great runnng game. Brown should be our premiere back but if he cant protect Eli like Bradshaw hes not going to surpass him. Same thing for Wilson.

stormblue
10-31-2012, 03:14 AM
Bradshaw ain't been protectin' crap lately either.

GiantRoc
10-31-2012, 03:59 AM
He seemed to do a pretty good job in the 2 games he played in. Yes he messed up once. That was more technique. He knew his assignment, but didn't execute properly. I'm sure he has been coached up on that.

stormblue
10-31-2012, 04:19 AM
He seemed to do a pretty good job in the 2 games he played in. Yes he messed up once. That was more technique. He knew his assignment, but didn't execute properly. I'm sure he has been coached up on that.

yeah , he flat out got Eli sacked or something......i forget honestly.....but i remember the commentators
pointing out something like that ...i didn't see it so i don't 'spose i really shoulda said anything.

open mouth insert foot.
not the first time.

GiantRoc
10-31-2012, 05:34 AM
yeah , he flat out got Eli sacked or something......i forget honestly.....but i remember the commentators
pointing out something like that ...i didn't see it so i don't 'spose i really shoulda said anything.

open mouth insert foot.
not the first time.

Yeah , He didn't step up and meet him more at the line. The guy got a head of steam and beat him and got to Eli. Wasn't a crushing hit, but no hit on Eli is to my liking.

Captain Chaos
10-31-2012, 05:41 AM
Brown totally missed his guy in the Panther's game and Eli got crushed (the only sack of the game for Eli). Since then he can't pass protect...

CowboysSuck
10-31-2012, 11:00 AM
Whos says Brown cant pass protect? Lol give me a break..

BParcells777
10-31-2012, 11:01 AM
Nothing like making up stories/senarios to flame the board.........not going to bite Sorry!!!

nycisgreat
10-31-2012, 11:06 AM
Bradshaw ain't been protectin' crap lately either.

I agree. BJ was always our best pass protector the pass few years. I've seen Bradshaw on many occasions missed picking up the blitz because he was more concern with trying to get open for a pass then protecting Eli.

G.I. Ants
10-31-2012, 12:02 PM
I agree. BJ was always our best pass protector the pass few years. I've seen Bradshaw on many occasions missed picking up the blitz because he was more concern with trying to get open for a pass then protecting Eli.You are absolutely WRONG. Bradshaw has been a great pass protecting back for years on this team. His technique is superb, especially picking up the blitz. If he tried to get open for a pass, maybe it is because that is the play that's called.

moosedrool
10-31-2012, 12:06 PM
Anyone who says Brown can't pass protect is clueless. The sack Brown gave up was against a DE 1 on 1. That is a blown assignment by an offensive lineman and not Brown's fault. RB's are assigned to pick up blitzing LB's and DB's and Brown does that just fine, but Bradshaw is better at it and is why he is on the field so much.

nycisgreat
10-31-2012, 12:27 PM
You are absolutely WRONG. Bradshaw has been a great pass protecting back for years on this team. His technique is superb, especially picking up the blitz. If he tried to get open for a pass, maybe it is because that is the play that's called.

You are nuts if you think Bradshaw is better pass blocker than BJ. I've seen Eli lean into Bradshaw time after time when he does exactly what I am talking about. Eli doesn't get sack as much as other QBs because when plays break down he throws the ball away. Eli is really good at it. This attribute makes the entire line and RB seem like better pass protectors. Our oline sucked last years and it isn't the best this year, but Eli wasn't getting sacked as much as other QBs in the league. Why is that?

moosedrool
10-31-2012, 12:41 PM
You are nuts if you think Bradshaw is better pass blocker than BJ. I've seen Eli lean into Bradshaw time after time when he does exactly what I am talking about. Eli doesn't get sack as much as other QBs because when plays break down he throws the ball away. Eli is really good at it. This attribute makes the entire line and RB seem like better pass protectors. Our oline sucked last years and it isn't the best this year, but Eli wasn't getting sacked as much as other QBs in the league. Why is that?

Nice try. Last year BJ had a -0.7 pass block rating at PFF, and Bradshaw's was +3.4

RoanokeFan
10-31-2012, 12:43 PM
Bradshaw ain't been protectin' crap lately either.

What does that mean?

joemorrisforprez
10-31-2012, 01:00 PM
Bradshaw is a very good pass-protecting running back, among the best in the league at his position.

However, Brown came out of college with a good reputation as a pass-protector as well. Yes, he did have one missed assignment in the Carolina game, but IIRC, it was a late pickup, not a completely blown block.

Long story short, pass-protection is not a weakness for Brown. And given the limited amount of work he's getting, I can't see that as being an excuse to keep him on the bench.

nycisgreat
10-31-2012, 01:52 PM
Nice try. Last year BJ had a -0.7 pass block rating at PFF, and Bradshaw's was +3.4

I don't go by PFF numbers. You do. Who does PFF says was better statistic wise last year. Romo or Eli? Who do you say is better and do you need numbers to help you make that choice.

stormblue
10-31-2012, 02:00 PM
What does that mean?

i recanted and slapped myself in the very next post....

"yeah , he flat out got Eli sacked or something......i forget honestly.....but i remember the commentators
pointing out something like that ...i didn't see it so i don't 'spose i really shoulda said anything.
open mouth insert foot.
not the first time."

damn these nazi storm-trooper mods !!!! (my puter don't gots no redfonts )

moosedrool
10-31-2012, 02:25 PM
I don't go by PFF numbers. You do. Who does PFF says was better statistic wise last year. Romo or Eli? Who do you say is better and do you need numbers to help you make that choice.

You go by a few plays you have etched in your memory. PFF records the results of every play. I guess your analysis carries more weight. LMAO.

JayMas9
10-31-2012, 02:27 PM
Bradshaw is a very good pass-protecting running back, among the best in the league at his position.

However, Brown came out of college with a good reputation as a pass-protector as well. Yes, he did have one missed assignment in the Carolina game, but IIRC, it was a late pickup, not a completely blown block.

Long story short, pass-protection is not a weakness for Brown. And given the limited amount of work he's getting, I can't see that as being an excuse to keep him on the bench.Well said.

nycisgreat
10-31-2012, 02:32 PM
You go by a few plays you have etched in your memory. PFF records the results of every play. I guess your analysis carries more weight. LMAO.

Now you are putting words in my mouth, and you know where I am getting at. I am saying if you are only looking at numbers than you are right. Sometimes the numbers lie. My case and point. Eli vs Romo. Romo's numbers are always better. You are bringing a similar argument that Toomer brought up earlier this year when he compared Eli vs Romo just based on numbers. If someone looks at the only the numbers between the two, then you are right. But you and I both know who is really the better QB. Eli is clutch. Romo's not. Flawed logic.

moosedrool
10-31-2012, 02:41 PM
Now you are putting words in my mouth, and you know where I am getting at. I am saying if you are only looking at numbers than you are right. Sometimes the numbers lie. My case and point. Eli vs Romo. Romo's numbers are always better. You are bringing a similar argument that Toomer brought up earlier this year when he compared Eli vs Romo just based on numbers. If someone looks at the only the numbers between the two, then you are right. But you and I both know who is really the better QB. Eli is clutch. Romo's not. Flawed logic.

Please don't insult me and say "you are only looking at numbers". The stats at PFF are really good and frequently confirm what my eyes see every week.

nycisgreat
10-31-2012, 03:10 PM
Please don't insult me and say "you are only looking at numbers". The stats at PFF are really good and frequently confirm what my eyes see every week.

LMAO. I guess only what you see matters. Thanks. Flawed logic. No thank you. I prefer NFL stats. Keep PFF stats to yourself. Talk to me about NFL stats. And you still didn't answer my question. Who did PFF say was better last year. Eli or Romo? I could understand why you wouldn't want to answer it because what I am saying about only looking at number is true. What does your eyes tell you about Eli or Romo? Who was better last year?

moosedrool
10-31-2012, 03:21 PM
LMAO. I guess only what you see matters. Thanks. Flawed logic. No thank you. I prefer NFL stats. Keep PFF stats to yourself. Talk to me about NFL stats. And you still didn't answer my question. Who did PFF say was better last year. Eli or Romo? I could understand why you wouldn't want to answer it because what I am saying about only looking at number is true. What does your eyes tell you about Eli or Romo? Who was better last year?

Eli/Romo is off topic so I ignored it. And PFF stats are NFL stats. Too bad you don't understand them.

RoanokeFan
10-31-2012, 03:22 PM
i recanted and slapped myself in the very next post....

"yeah , he flat out got Eli sacked or something......i forget honestly.....but i remember the commentators
pointing out something like that ...i didn't see it so i don't 'spose i really shoulda said anything.
open mouth insert foot.
not the first time."

damn these nazi storm-trooper mods !!!! (my puter don't gots no redfonts )


Yes, he didn't hold his block long enough and Eli got sacked. But was that all his fault or was it just tight coverage down field?

BParcells777
10-31-2012, 03:35 PM
Nice try. Last year BJ had a -0.7 pass block rating at PFF, and Bradshaw's was +3.4

what was Stevie Browns PFF last year LOL??????

TheEnigma
10-31-2012, 03:43 PM
Uh, PFF usually gives Eli a higher grade than Romo so no idea why that comparison was brought up as if it was a negative thing.Sites like PFF and Football Outsiders dig deeper and provide more thorough statistics than the base stuff you get at NFL or ESPN. There's been more articles on NFL these days citing PFF so it's coming along very nicely.

nycisgreat
10-31-2012, 03:52 PM
Uh, PFF usually gives Eli a higher grade than Romo so no idea why that comparison was brought up as if it was a negative thing.Sites like PFF and Football Outsiders dig deeper and provide more thorough statistics than the base stuff you get at NFL or ESPN. There's been more articles on NFL these days citing PFF so it's coming along very nicely.

Who does PFF rate higher last year? Eli or Romo? Why don't anyone who swear by PFF tell me? Show me the numbers? lol

TheEnigma
10-31-2012, 04:03 PM
Who does PFF rate higher last year? Eli or Romo? Why don't anyone who swear by PFF tell me? Show me the numbers? lol

Eli was in the top 10 players list of 2011 for PFF at 8 overall last year. Romo wasn't anywhere close to this list.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/05/03/no-8-eli-manning-qb-new-york-giants/

moosedrool
10-31-2012, 04:05 PM
what was Stevie Browns PFF last year LOL??????

Ridiculous analogy, but I'm not surprised it's the best YOU could do.

moosedrool
10-31-2012, 04:15 PM
Eli was in the top 10 players list of 2011 for PFF at 8 overall last year. Romo wasn't anywhere close to this list.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/05/03/no-8-eli-manning-qb-new-york-giants/

Yea, and for 2012 PFF Rating on Eli is #2 in the NFL, where as "NFL Stat" QB rating Eli is #12 in the NFL. Which do you think is a better stat now nycisgreat (who lives in MD?). Bottom line, PFF stats are so much more in depth than any other stats out there, but there will always be ignorant people who don't understand them or are too cheap to shell out a whopping $30 to get them, and simply get defensive and say things like "stats are for losers" when someone brings them up. The best part: these stats will help you win your fantasy football matchups every week.

nycisgreat
10-31-2012, 06:24 PM
Yea, and for 2012 PFF Rating on Eli is #2 in the NFL, where as "NFL Stat" QB rating Eli is #12 in the NFL. Which do you think is a better stat now nycisgreat (who lives in MD?). Bottom line, PFF stats are so much more in depth than any other stats out there, but there will always be ignorant people who don't understand them or are too cheap to shell out a whopping $30 to get them, and simply get defensive and say things like "stats are for losers" when someone brings them up. The best part: these stats will help you win your fantasy football matchups every week.

LMAO, It seems like you are the one that is getting upset. Calling me all kind of names. lol. Like "Ignorant", "Clueless" and then you add words to my mouth. When did I call you a loser? If you are calling yourself a losers because you are purchase a subscription to PFF., then go ahead. But remember I never saying anything disparaging to you. I am having a civil discussion with you. I know your new to the site. Have you read the rules yet? I was just wondering.

Also, PFF stats are more in depth by who standards. Yours? If you want to spend $30 for meaningless stats that count for absolutely nothing towards players heading to the Hall of Fame then be my guess. The day when players are assessed by PFF in order to get into the hall of fame then I will reconsider it. Again, let me ask the same question. Who does PFF say had better numbers last year? Eli or Romo? I am not asking for no top 100 players list. The NFL network ran this stuff already. This stuff is old. You are proving my point. Numbers don't mean anything. Everyone knows Eli is better. When you compare Eli and Romo stats. Romo's is better statistically, but Eli is the better all around QB. It is okay to say that you are a wrong sometimes. I do the same when I am wrong.

nycisgreat
10-31-2012, 06:26 PM
Eli was in the top 10 players list of 2011 for PFF at 8 overall last year. Romo wasn't anywhere close to this list.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/05/03/no-8-eli-manning-qb-new-york-giants/

Thank you for a top 100 player list. I am talking about stats.

BlueSanta
10-31-2012, 06:28 PM
I don't go by PFF numbers. You do. Who does PFF says was better statistic wise last year. Romo or Eli? Who do you say is better and do you need numbers to help you make that choice.

Well then you might go for TC's opinion because Bradshaw played FAR more passing down snaps than BJ. Bradshaw is not only the best pass protecting back on this team for the last couple years, but he has been perhaps the best pass protecting back in the league.

BJ was a good blocker, but he often chose to block the wrong guy. He also went for knockout blocks and when he missed, he missed big.

seriously, just watch the games. Bradshaw is in on passing downs because the coaches have faith in his blocking. When Brown is in we either motion him from the backfield, or hand the ball to him. So this isnt even a debatable topic. When AB was out earlier this year, they actually had the FB in there on single back pasing formations rather than put Brown in. IM sorry, this isnt even a close call.

Bradshaw has had struggles in the run at times this year and I would love to see Brown/Wilson play more too. But, I wouldnt risk Eli's backside on it.

TheEnigma
10-31-2012, 06:32 PM
Thank you for a top 100 player list. I am talking about stats.

Dude, the top 10 player list for PFF is the 10 best graded players using their statistics. It's not a "who I like" list by any means. I'm seriously trying to understand how you are confused on this issue when it's been pointed out several times that PFF has Eli with superior grades versus Romo. As for how and why PFF stats are more in-depth, the NFL negatively grades a QB for a WR's dropped passes in the completion grade where as PFF puts the blame rightly so on the WR. It's the same deal when the receiver runs the incorrect route but the NFL still punishes the QB for that when on the flip side, PFF again gives the negative grade to the proper player. Does that make sense to you?

nycisgreat
10-31-2012, 06:35 PM
Well then you might go for TC's opinion because Bradshaw played FAR more passing down snaps than BJ. Bradshaw is not only the best pass protecting back on this team for the last couple years, but he has been perhaps the best pass protecting back in the league.

BJ was a good blocker, but he often chose to block the wrong guy. He also went for knockout blocks and when he missed, he missed big.

seriously, just watch the games. Bradshaw is in on passing downs because the coaches have faith in his blocking. When Brown is in we either motion him from the backfield, or hand the ball to him. So this isnt even a debatable topic.

Bradshaw has had struggles in the run at times this year and I would love to see Brown/Wilson play more too. But, I wouldnt risk Eli's backside on it.

Eli makes the line and RBs pass blocking look a whole lot better then they really are. Eli gets rid of the ball a whole quicker if guys aren't open to avoid sacks. If Eli held on to the ball as much as Mike Vic, he would get beat up. That is not the case. I like Bradshaw, but I don't like his pass blocking as much as I like BJ or even Tiki. I prefer BJ or Bradshaw when it comes to blocking.

BlueSanta
10-31-2012, 06:39 PM
Eli makes the line and RBs pass blocking look a whole lot better then they really are. Eli gets rid of the ball a whole quicker if guys aren't open to avoid sacks. If Eli held on to the ball as much as Mike Vic, he would get beat up. That is not the case. I like Bradshaw, but I don't like his pass blocking as much as I like BJ or even Tiki. I prefer BJ or Bradshaw when it comes to blocking.

Eli does make the blockers look better. But no back in the NFL is asked to passblock more then AB and that is because he is very good at it. BJ was also good and often the guy he intended to block was nuetralized. But, he often chose to block the wrong guy. Backs are taught to block inside out and he often went outside in, which is why Ab was asked to do it more.

Tiki was also very good. But that is kinda irrelevant.

nycisgreat
10-31-2012, 06:49 PM
Dude, the top 10 player list for PFF is the 10 best graded players using their statistics. It's not a "who I like" list by any means. I'm seriously trying to understand how you are confused on this issue when it's been pointed out several times that PFF has Eli with superior grades versus Romo. As for how and why PFF stats are more in-depth, the NFL negatively grades a QB for a WR's dropped passes in the completion grade where as PFF puts the blame rightly so on the WR. It's the same deal when the receiver runs the incorrect route but the NFL still punishes the QB for that when on the flip side, PFF again gives the negative grade to the proper player. Does that make sense to you?

Confused about what. lol. What are you saying is common sense. What top 100 players list wouldn't rank Eli ahead of Romo. I am just saying only looking at number can be misleading. PFF is one of several football site that has there own ranking system. We could go on about this all day. I don't care what Eli vs Romo's stats are. I don't care if Romo's statistically are better. We all know Eli is a better QB, and you don't need any numbers to tell me that. Romo has a higher QB rating that Eli. Could I say he is better then Eli no. Everyone know that Eli is better.. When the heat is on, the guy rises to the occasion.

BJ took less snaps than Bradshaw last season, so naturally his number are better. I prefer BJ blocking over Bradshaw. I feel that BJ is better pass protector.

nycisgreat
10-31-2012, 06:57 PM
Eli does make the blockers look better. But no back in the NFL is asked to passblock more then AB and that is because he is very good at it. BJ was also good and often the guy he intended to block was nuetralized. But, he often chose to block the wrong guy. Backs are taught to block inside out and he often went outside in, which is why Ab was asked to do it more.

Tiki was also very good. But that is kinda irrelevant.

Tiki isn't irrelevant. We are talking about our RBs of recent years. I prefer BJ protecting Eli's blind side than Bradshaw. Eli getting rid of balls quickly isn't in any tangible stat. You are right. Bradshaw is asked to pass protect a lot but Eli doesn't attempt as many passes like the other Elite QBs in the league, and he takes half the sacks of the top QBs in the league. This is why I like Eli so much. If he doesn't see it, he throws the ball away. He doesn't force things. He is probably the best in the league at this. This attribute makes the entire offensive line and RBs look good.

TheEnigma
10-31-2012, 07:05 PM
Confused about what. lol. What are you saying is common sense. What top 100 players list wouldn't rank Eli ahead of Romo. I am just saying only looking at number can be misleading. PFF is one of several football site that has there own ranking system. We could go on about this all day. I don't care what Eli vs Romo's stats are. I don't care if Romo's statistically are better. We all know Eli is a better QB, and you don't need any numbers to tell me that. Romo has a higher QB rating that Eli. Could I say he is better then Eli no. Everyone know that Eli is better.. When the heat is on, the guy rises to the occasion.

Ok...then why did you even bring up the whole Eli vs. Romo thing in statistics? If you were trying to make the point that statistics aren't always the correct factor on the surface, you would be in the right line of thinking but what I've been trying to tell you (and Moose to a certain extent) is that PFF takes into account those things that Eli does well such as the 4th quarter comebacks. They give credit to a QB who puts the ball in the right spot even if the WR fails to catch it. WRs are given more credit for creating separation from the defensive back even if the QB fails to see them. PFF doesn't just go "He threw no TD's but a pick? He sucks!" like the NFL system does. It takes into account the external factors like the OL, WRs, TEs, etc.


BJ took less snaps than Bradshaw last season, so naturally his number are better. I prefer BJ blocking over Bradshaw. I feel that BJ is better pass protector.

Again, the numbers that PFF use aren't just based on total snaps in pass protection. The way they get their grade is by taking the total amount of snaps in pass protection and then dividing it by the amount of pressure allowed. So it's possible for a RB to never allow a sack in pass protection but his grade can still be bad because the pressure is there consistently, forcing the QB to move.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/07/15/three-years-of-pass-blocking-efficiency-running-backs/

From 2009 to 2011, Bradshaw was the #2 ranked RB in pass protection and considering the amount of snaps he had in comparison to #1 Brandon Jackson, his play in PP was phenomenal.

nycisgreat
10-31-2012, 07:16 PM
Ok...then why did you even bring up the whole Eli vs. Romo thing in statistics? If you were trying to make the point that statistics aren't always the correct factor on the surface, you would be in the right line of thinking but what I've been trying to tell you (and Moose to a certain extent) is that PFF takes into account those things that Eli does well such as the 4th quarter comebacks. They give credit to a QB who puts the ball in the right spot even if the WR fails to catch it. WRs are given more credit for creating separation from the defensive back even if the QB fails to see them. PFF doesn't just go "He threw no TD's but a pick? He sucks!" like the NFL system does. It takes into account the external factors like the OL, WRs, TEs, etc.



Again, the numbers that PFF use aren't just based on total snaps in pass protection. The way they get their grade is by taking the total amount of snaps in pass protection and then dividing it by the amount of pressure allowed. So it's possible for a RB to never allow a sack in pass protection but his grade can still be bad because the pressure is there consistently, forcing the QB to move.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/07/15/three-years-of-pass-blocking-efficiency-running-backs/

From 2009 to 2011, Bradshaw was the #2 ranked RB in pass protection and considering the amount of snaps he had in comparison to #1 Brandon Jackson, his play in PP was phenomenal.

It was an A and B conversation between Mousedrool and I, and I don't think you saw the things that were said previously. Mousedrool says that the number from PFF mattered, and he said I was just making statements bases on couple of plays I have seen once of twice, but PFF numbers support what he sees. I told him don't always count on number. Sometimes numbers don't tell the whole story. I brought up the Romo vs Eli numbers comparison because it is a good case where the numbers lie.

I understand what you are saying. I understand what Mousedrool. He says that he rather go by what PFF say. That is good for him. I base my observation on numbers and visual assessment. I am saying Eli's ability to get rid of the ball quickly make any oline or Rb look like better pass protector. Eli's ability to avoid sack is the best in the league, and there is no tangible measurement for this attribute.

BlueSanta
10-31-2012, 07:29 PM
Tiki isn't irrelevant. We are talking about our RBs of recent years. I prefer BJ protecting Eli's blind side than Bradshaw. Eli getting rid of balls quickly isn't in any tangible stat. You are right. Bradshaw is asked to pass protect a lot but Eli doesn't attempt as many passes like the other Elite QBs in the league, and he takes half the sacks of the top QBs in the league. This is why I like Eli so much. If he doesn't see it, he throws the ball away. He doesn't force things. He is probably the best in the league at this. This attribute makes the entire offensive line and RBs look good.

Well, TC doesnt agree with you. PFF uses snaps played and "sucessfull blocks" vs "unsuccessful blocks" and when combining those stats Bradshaw was the best. BJ was mediocre.

You are welcome to your opinion, but TC doesnt agree with you and he is a 2x superbowl winning coach who knows a lot more about football and you or I do. He also gets to see these guys every day in practice, unlike us. So you can trust his opinion that Bradshaw is valuable for his pass protection or you dont have to. But as long as you 2 have differing opinions, i know who I, and many others on these forums are going to side with.

Eli's does help in pass protection, I doubt anyone would argue that.

moosedrool
10-31-2012, 07:31 PM
I base my observation on numbers and visual assessment.

So do I. I don't know why you assume I make observations on stats only. And don't criticize PFF stats when you have no clue how they are created nor who uses them. If you took a few minutes to find the answers to those two questions on their site you would very quickly take your foot out of your mouth.

For starters, "we work with over a quarter of the NFL teams in one way shape or form and they are usually flabbergasted by what we have".

And the Giants used some of the stats last year to prepare for New England in the Super Bowl.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203889904577199781897959096.html?m od=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_6

stormblue
10-31-2012, 07:34 PM
Yes, he didn't hold his block long enough and Eli got sacked. But was that all his fault or was it just tight coverage down field?

dunno.....i didn't see it , that's why i recanted and am trying to dislodge this boot-heel from my upper plate.

nycisgreat
10-31-2012, 08:32 PM
So do I. I don't know why you assume I make observations on stats only. And don't criticize PFF stats when you have no clue how they are created nor who uses them. If you took a few minutes to find the answers to those two questions on their site you would very quickly take your foot out of your mouth.

For starters, "we work with over a quarter of the NFL teams in one way shape or form and they are usually flabbergasted by what we have".

And the Giants used some of the stats last year to prepare for New England in the Super Bowl.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203889904577199781897959096.html?m od=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_6

Why would I waste my time with PFF when I could go directly to the source. You can have PFF, and I will stick with the NFL network, ESPN, Fox, NBC and CBS. Entities that broadcast and cover the games. Enjoy your PFF, which I have no desire use.

moosedrool
10-31-2012, 08:37 PM
Why would I waste my time with PFF when I could go directly to the source.

Uh, because PFF has stats you can't find at the sources you listed.

nycisgreat
10-31-2012, 08:42 PM
Uh, because PFF has stats you can't find at the sources you listed.

Lmao, lol. You right yet again.

Eliscruzzz
10-31-2012, 08:44 PM
While Bradshaw is a great pass protector, how is Brown or Wilson ever going to learn if they don't get in there and try?

TheEnigma
10-31-2012, 08:49 PM
Why would I waste my time with PFF when I could go directly to the source. You can have PFF, and I will stick with the NFL network, ESPN, Fox, NBC and CBS. Entities that broadcast and cover the games. Enjoy your PFF, which I have no desire use.

The same source that gives Romo a better grade and rank than Eli? Or the same source that grades defensive backs just based on turnovers?

nycisgreat
10-31-2012, 08:50 PM
While Bradshaw is a great pass protector, how is Brown or Wilson ever going to learn if they don't get in there and try?

I share the same sentiment. Bradshaw is shoe string tackle away from the IR. I know is he hurting. The guy is tough as nails, but if your injured, there is nothing you can do about it. If we do play this weekend, I hope Bradshaw gets some practice time. I would hate to see him play this week without single practice.

Eliscruzzz
10-31-2012, 08:53 PM
I share the same sentiment. Bradshaw is shoe string tackle away from the IR. I know is he hurting. The guy is tough as nails, but if your injured, there is nothing you can do about it. If we do play this weekend, I hope Bradshaw gets some practice time. I would hate to seem play this week without single practice.There are just some things you cannot emulate in practice and this is one of them. Does any body really think that our defense is going hard at Eli in practice?

nycisgreat
10-31-2012, 08:56 PM
There are just some things you cannot emulate in practice and this is one of them. Does any body really think that our defense is going hard at Eli in practice?

Huh? I am assume you mean Bradshaw getting practice reps right? To test his ankle. I know I didn't say anything about Eli. I am talking about Bradshaw.

Eliscruzzz
10-31-2012, 09:00 PM
Huh? I am assume you mean Bradshaw getting practice reps right? To test his ankle. I know I didn't say anything about Eli. I am talking about Bradshaw.LOL no I'm talking about pass protecting Eli with Brown...I was just saying I know they are not going hard after Eli like the opposing team does on Sunday.

nycisgreat
10-31-2012, 09:02 PM
LOL no I'm talking about pass protecting Eli with Brown...I was just saying I know they are not going hard after Eli like the opposing team does on Sunday.

Yep, which is true, but Brown need to able to get first team reps, so he can pick up on the pass blocking schemes. That is the only way he will learn.

Eliscruzzz
10-31-2012, 09:08 PM
Yep, which is true, but Brown need to able to get first team reps, so he can pick up on the pass blocking schemes. That is the only way he will learn.True and that is what pisses me off. Back a couple weeks ago TC said he will spilt the reps and go with the hot hand. He did it in the Browns game and San Fran game with Bradshaw but the Dallas or Redskins game he didn't. I just want it to be fair if Bradshaw doesn't have it that day go with brown and let him get experience.

nycisgreat
10-31-2012, 09:11 PM
True and that is what pisses me off. Back a couple weeks ago TC said he will spilt the reps and go with the hot hand. He did it in the Browns game and San Fran game with Bradshaw but the Dallas or Redskins game he didn't. I just want it to be fair if Bradshaw doesn't have it that day go with brown and let him get experience.

I can't disagree with you. I am waiting for Brown to get his opportunities, but they seem to be far and in between.

joemorrisforprez
10-31-2012, 11:09 PM
Looks like Bradshaw is once again unable to practice.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/giants/post/_/id/18944/bradshaw-rolle-not-at-practice

I'd be shocked if he gets 80 yards next week.

JayMas9
11-01-2012, 12:51 PM
LMAO, It seems like you are the one that is getting upset. Calling me all kind of names. lol. Like "Ignorant", "Clueless" and then you add words to my mouth. When did I call you a loser? If you are calling yourself a losers because you are purchase a subscription to PFF., then go ahead. But remember I never saying anything disparaging to you. I am having a civil discussion with you. I know your new to the site. Have you read the rules yet? I was just wondering.

Also, PFF stats are more in depth by who standards. Yours? If you want to spend $30 for meaningless stats that count for absolutely nothing towards players heading to the Hall of Fame then be my guess. The day when players are assessed by PFF in order to get into the hall of fame then I will reconsider it. Again, let me ask the same question. Who does PFF say had better numbers last year? Eli or Romo? I am not asking for no top 100 players list. The NFL network ran this stuff already. This stuff is old. You are proving my point. Numbers don't mean anything. Everyone knows Eli is better. When you compare Eli and Romo stats. Romo's is better statistically, but Eli is the better all around QB. It is okay to say that you are a wrong sometimes. I do the same when I am wrong.Romo is not better based on PFF's statistics, how do you not see that this debunks your whole campaign to debunk PFF. Metric stats are being used more and more. Bloggers from ESPN, specifically Graziano who blogs about the NFC East, use PFF all the time and other metric stat websites. So your "trusted" sites, use PFF. It's ridiculous how much you've contradicted yourself, but are stubbornly trying to hold ground. These guys watch film, and grade. NFL teams when studying opponents study film and use granular metrics. It means a whole lot more than general NFL stats. Case in point, every traditional statistic would tell you Tony Romo had a better year than Eli Manning last year. People who know football, know that is in no way true. The stats that support that...metric stats on PFF and other websites, thus proving their value.

tcseacliff
11-01-2012, 01:11 PM
yeah , he flat out got Eli sacked or something......i forget honestly.....but i remember the commentators
pointing out something like that ...i didn't see it so i don't 'spose i really shoulda said anything.

open mouth insert foot.
not the first time.

Ditto brother! been there! they say: " a closed mouth, gathers no feet!"

BParcells777
11-01-2012, 02:01 PM
BLAH BLAH BLAH

moosedrool
11-01-2012, 02:06 PM
Romo is not better based on PFF's statistics, how do you not see that this debunks your whole campaign to debunk PFF. Metric stats are being used more and more. Bloggers from ESPN, specifically Graziano who blogs about the NFC East, use PFF all the time and other metric stat websites. So your "trusted" sites, use PFF. It's ridiculous how much you've contradicted yourself, but are stubbornly trying to hold ground. These guys watch film, and grade. NFL teams when studying opponents study film and use granular metrics. It means a whole lot more than general NFL stats. Case in point, every traditional statistic would tell you Tony Romo had a better year than Eli Manning last year. People who know football, know that is in no way true. The stats that support that...metric stats on PFF and other websites, thus proving their value.

Great post. Unfortunately there are people here you could hit them in the head with a hammer and they still won't get it.

BParcells777
11-01-2012, 02:10 PM
Ridiculous analogy, but I'm not surprised it's the best YOU could do.

What does it stand for Perfectly Fullov Fallacy...........LOL Experts are 90% WRONG 90% of the time

BParcells777
11-01-2012, 02:13 PM
PFF.........can they predict he presidential election? LOL They are taking your money and throwing at dart boards

moosedrool
11-01-2012, 02:56 PM
PFF.........can they predict he presidential election? LOL They are taking your money and throwing at dart boards

Like I mentioned earlier, you could hit some people in the head with a hammer and they still won't get it.

JayMas9
11-01-2012, 03:04 PM
Like I mentioned earlier, you could hit some people in the head with a hammer and they still won't get it.Thumbs up.

GiantRoc
11-02-2012, 03:29 AM
WOW Now that was a spin off. Eli, Romo, NFL, PFF, WTF! So what was decided? Can Brown step in and Block or can't he??? I think by now, I'd have to say yes. Give him his shot to play. IMO LOL OMG (sorry don't know anymore initals. And thats the 1st and last time I used OMG)

stormblue
11-02-2012, 04:08 AM
PFF.........can they predict he presidential election? LOL They are taking your money and throwing at dart boards

nope.......but they could tell you ;

who won and by how many votes.
who voted for who.
who took the play off and did not vote
who threw which darts and where they landed.