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View Full Version : Absolute #1 Need for the New York Giants



CDN_G-FAN
12-19-2011, 03:23 PM
feel free to discuss what you think is the 1 thing that would make this team a contender (or say that they're too far from contending for one thing to make a difference).</P>


I'm leaning towards the latter, but if i had to pick one thing its passionate roster leadership.</P>


Since AP and Strahan left this team, we've had variations of the same problems, late season swoons, horribly flat performances in huge games, massive confusion on defense, no passion on or off the field.</P>


while i think you could make an argument for coaching, the ability of this roster to tune out the coachings staff means its only a matter of time before it finds a reason to tune the new coaching staff out.</P>


that's harder to do when someone's waiting at your locker to tear you a new one, pick you up when you're starting to fold, and tell you to get in freakin' line when you need to.</P>


more than anything, more than positional talent or coaches, this team needs respected onfield leadership again.</P>

jakegibbs
12-19-2011, 03:28 PM
feel free to discuss what you think is the 1 thing that would make this team a contender (or say that they're too far from contending for one thing to make a difference).</P>


I'm leaning towards the latter, but if i had to pick one thing its passionate roster leadership.</P>


Since AP and Strahan left this team, we've had variations of the same problems, late season swoons, horribly flat performances in huge games, massive confusion on defense, no passion on or off the field.</P>


while i think you could make an argument for coaching, the ability of this roster to tune out the coachings staff means its only a matter of time before it finds a reason to tune the new coaching staff out.</P>


that's harder to do when someone's waiting at your locker to tear you a new one, pick you up when you're starting to fold, *and tell you to get in freakin' line when you need to.</P>


more than anything, more than positional talent or coaches, this team needs respected onfield leadership again.</P>

A NEW GM WHO CAN LOAD THIS TEAM WITH QUALITY DEPTH SO THEY FINISH STRONG DOWN THE STRETCH INSTEAD OF FOLDING LIKE A CHEAP KITE EVERY YEAR SINCE EO RETIRED.

Remember the SB run was with basically 80% of EO's players not JR's. JR has missed on so many draft pics & trades it's depleted this team & it's be showing up late in seasons for the last 3 years.

BOOK IT.

GMENAGAIN
12-19-2011, 03:30 PM
With the exception of the 2007 championship run, we had a lot of the same nonsense going on when Strahan and Pierce were here . . . . .

jakegibbs
12-19-2011, 03:33 PM
With the exception of the 2007 championship run, we had a lot of the same nonsense going on when Strahan and Pierce were here . . . . .

If you have 53 really good players you'll be around at the end of the season as you were in the 1st of the season.

Take the Pack last year with all the injuries & the back up coming in & playing up to par as the starters had before them.

We need quality depth & the Absolute #1 need for the NYG's is quality depth at all positions.

Roosevelt
12-19-2011, 03:56 PM
feel free to discuss what you think is the 1 thing that would make this team a contender (or say that they're too far from contending for one thing to make a difference).</p>


I'm leaning towards the latter, but if i had to pick one thing its passionate roster leadership.</p>


Since AP and Strahan left this team, we've had variations of the same problems, late season swoons, horribly flat performances in huge games, massive confusion on defense, no passion on or off the field.</p>


while i think you could make an argument for coaching, the ability of this roster to tune out the coachings staff means its only a matter of time before it finds a reason to tune the new coaching staff out.</p>


that's harder to do when someone's waiting at your locker to tear you a new one, pick you up when you're starting to fold, and tell you to get in freakin' line when you need to.</p>


more than anything, more than positional talent or coaches, this team needs respected onfield leadership again.</p>

No question.

The Giants have a players counsel I believe, so the Coach talks to the counsel and they talk to the rest of the team.

I have little faith with any player on this current team to be a true leader. Eli is a leader by example but he's not an "in your face" type guy. Tuck is always hurt so his words are meaningless.

NYG4lifeNYK
12-19-2011, 04:01 PM
I'm going with LBers still... but first and foremost we need a competent DC

RoanokeFan
12-19-2011, 04:02 PM
feel free to discuss what you think is the 1 thing that would make this team a contender (or say that they're too far from contending for one thing to make a difference).</p>


I'm leaning towards the latter, but if i had to pick one thing its passionate roster leadership.</p>


<font color="#0000FF">Since AP and Strahan left this team, we've had variations of the same problems, late season swoons, horribly flat performances in huge games, massive confusion on defense, no passion on or off the field.</font></p>


while i think you could make an argument for coaching, the ability of this roster to tune out the coachings staff means its only a matter of time before it finds a reason to tune the new coaching staff out.</p>


that's harder to do when someone's waiting at your locker to tear you a new one, pick you up when you're starting to fold, and tell you to get in freakin' line when you need to.</p>


more than anything, more than positional talent or coaches, this team needs respected onfield leadership again.</p>

I just posted something similar in another thread. I wish Mrs. Tollefson was the assistant coach of WTF! She'd get these clown in line.

You need several layers of "leaders" in any organization. We don't have the first level of leaders and it shows.

GameTime
12-19-2011, 04:06 PM
feel free to discuss what you think is the 1 thing that would make this team a contender (or say that they're too far from contending for one thing to make a difference).</P>


I'm leaning towards the latter, but if i had to pick one thing its passionate roster leadership.</P>


Since AP and Strahan left this team, we've had variations of the same problems, late season swoons, horribly flat performances in huge games, massive confusion on defense, no passion on or off the field.</P>


while i think you could make an argument for coaching, the ability of this roster to tune out the coachings staff means its only a matter of time before it finds a reason to tune the new coaching staff out.</P>


that's harder to do when someone's waiting at your locker to tear you a new one, pick you up when you're starting to fold, and tell you to get in freakin' line when you need to.</P>


more than anything, more than positional talent or coaches, this team needs respected onfield leadership again.</P>


</P>


#1 need...</P>


a set of ****ing balls...........</P>

UK-Giantsfan
12-19-2011, 04:08 PM
# 1 ...........a new DC .......someone who respects the proud traditions of DEFENSE of the NEW YORK FOOTBALL GIANTS

sorry Perry , your D has been a disgrace to the franchise

Dr Octopus
12-19-2011, 04:10 PM
# 1 ...........a new DC .......someone who respects the proud traditions of DEFENSE of the NEW YORK FOOTBALL GIANTS

sorry Perry , your D has been a disgrace to the franchise

very true ..........bring back Spags ( he was a leader and had respect from the players )

Kruunch
12-19-2011, 04:12 PM
feel free to discuss what you think is the 1 thing that would make this team a contender (or say that they're too far from contending for one thing to make a difference).</P>


I'm leaning towards the latter, but if i had to pick one thing its passionate roster leadership.</P>


Since AP and Strahan left this team, we've had variations of the same problems, late season swoons, horribly flat performances in huge games, massive confusion on defense, no passion on or off the field.</P>


while i think you could make an argument for coaching, the ability of this roster to tune out the coachings staff means its only a matter of time before it finds a reason to tune the new coaching staff out.</P>


that's harder to do when someone's waiting at your locker to tear you a new one, pick you up when you're starting to fold, *and tell you to get in freakin' line when you need to.</P>


more than anything, more than positional talent or coaches, this team needs respected onfield leadership again.</P>

A defensive coordinator.

With the right DC this is a championship calibre team.

sharick88
12-19-2011, 04:29 PM
Actually addressing the linebacking situation. When was the last time we had a real stud at the lb position? Jessie Armstead?

slipknottin
12-19-2011, 04:55 PM
Anyone with a motor.

Only guys who give 100% non stop are Eli and JPP.

threenout
12-19-2011, 05:10 PM
a brain, a heart and some pride

JMFP2
12-19-2011, 05:22 PM
Totally shooting from the hip....this is in order of preference.

Linebacker (preferably MLB with range.....not sold on Goff, at all).

OL (Left Tackle to replace Diehl)

RB (Jacobs and Bradshaw past prime).

New Defensive Coordinator

New Offensive Coordinator

New Coach / GM ..... If Coughlin goes, Reese should take a hike too....he's the guy who took a season off because of his own self-inflicted cap mistakes.

RoanokeFan
12-19-2011, 05:28 PM
Actually addressing the linebacking situation. When was the last time we had a real stud at the lb position? Jessie Armstead?

Goff might be that guy, let's wait and see.

RoanokeFan
12-19-2011, 05:29 PM
Anyone with a motor.

Only guys who give 100% non stop are Eli and JPP.

I'd have to add Petrus and Blackburn. Don't confuse results with motivation [:)]

GMenFan13
12-19-2011, 05:33 PM
Someone or something that will get them to show up each week.

lawl
12-19-2011, 05:54 PM
feel free to discuss what you think is the 1 thing that would make this team a contender (or say that they're too far from contending for one thing to make a difference).</P>


I'm leaning towards the latter, but if i had to pick one thing its passionate roster leadership.</P>


Since AP and Strahan left this team, we've had variations of the same problems, late season swoons, horribly flat performances in huge games, massive confusion on defense, no passion on or off the field.</P>


while i think you could make an argument for coaching, the ability of this roster to tune out the coachings staff means its only a matter of time before it finds a reason to tune the new coaching staff out.</P>


that's harder to do when someone's waiting at your locker to tear you a new one, pick you up when you're starting to fold, *and tell you to get in freakin' line when you need to.</P>


more than anything, more than positional talent or coaches, this team needs respected onfield leadership again.</P>

A NEW GM WHO CAN LOAD THIS TEAM WITH QUALITY DEPTH SO THEY FINISH STRONG DOWN THE STRETCH INSTEAD OF FOLDING LIKE A CHEAP KITE EVERY YEAR SINCE EO RETIRED.

Remember the SB run was with basically 80% of EO's players not JR's. JR has missed on so many draft pics & trades it's depleted this team & it's be showing up late in seasons for the last 3 years.

BOOK IT.

This squad has more overall talent and depth than the 08 team.

Stick to watching ole miss

JesseJames
12-19-2011, 06:24 PM
my theory on the problem we have right now is that we have to pay so much money to grossly over paid veterans that we can't afford to bring in quality depth so we have to take our chances with low talent or mid range draftees so after the starters we suck..We also have a GM who doesn't like to spend big bucks in FA and has stated as much, its a no win situation and just look at our play on the field, especially on defense..

slipknottin
12-19-2011, 07:04 PM
What position on this team doesn't have depth? OL maybe? That's about it. Reese has built a ton of depth only to see it get tested every season.

bigbluefan1986
12-19-2011, 07:09 PM
Geez where to begin? Linebacker, safety, legit pass rush compliment to JPP...tackles to replace deihl and Mckenzie? I think we need some big time help this offseason in all areas I mentioned above.

RobCarpenter
12-19-2011, 07:55 PM
A NEW GM WHO CAN LOAD THIS TEAM WITH QUALITY DEPTH SO THEY FINISH STRONG DOWN THE STRETCH INSTEAD OF FOLDING LIKE A CHEAP KITE EVERY YEAR SINCE EO RETIRED. Remember the SB run was with basically 80% of EO's players not JR's. JR has missed on so many draft pics &amp; trades it's depleted this team &amp; it's be showing up late in seasons for the last 3 years. BOOK IT. This squad has more overall talent and depth than the 08 team. Stick to watching ole miss</P>


Get a grip lawl, you are no where near as knowledgeable as you seem to think. get off your stump and look in a mirror.</P>


The 2008 Giants OLine and RB's were much, much better than what we have now. That 2008 team rushed for 2500 yards (including two players going over 1000 yards) averaging over 5 yards a pop. That's huge! </P>


The 2010 Oline has been terrible. 2010 Snee has playeed poorly and the rest of the Oline is worse than what we had in 2008. At RB, the 2008 versions of Jacobsand AB were healthier and better and had Ward as well. </P>


Offensively the 2010 team is a one-dimensional, passing team compared to thegreat rushingand passing offensive we had in 2008. That 2008 team was aTop 5 Offense which could run the ball down anyone's throat and pass well.</P>


Defensively, the 2008 DT's (Robbins and Coefield) were better than our2010 DT's and a healthy Tuck (a 2008stud) and Kiwi (very good year at RDE) provided better overall DE play than JPP(who has been a 2010 stud)and a continually hurt Tuck and MIA Osi (who is one-dimensional when heactualy stops running his mouth and plays).</P>


While not as much of a delta, the 2008LB play was probably better as well.AP (even in 2008) was better than anyone we have put out there in 2010. The 2010 LB's have relied too heavily on rookies whohave shownflashes ofhope, but have been exposed routinely.</P>


Bottom line: stop trying to be a know-it-all lawl....because you don't.</P>

TheAngryTuna
12-19-2011, 07:55 PM
Warning: This post contains a rant.

Let's start with the LB unit, it is a major need. If we could get a MLB that is above average in coverage and stopping the run/rushing the passer it would improve our defence drastically. It would allow J. Williams to develop behind Boley and for Greg Jones or Herzlich to step up and start at OLB on the opposite side.

We need another corner, Ross is gone, T2 may not recover and all or depth will be recovering from major injuries. I think a FA is best here, we need someone with experience, not another rookie.

The way Rolle has been utilized has not been working. I don't know how capable of a safety he is, but the nickel is not working for him. He runs his damn mouth too much too, and I'm tired of it. I don't want him on the team with the attitude he has, however I understand he is most likely not going anywhere, but I wouldn't mind seeing this position addressed.

The D-Line has not been getting pressure outside of JPP, hopefully Tuck will return to himself next year, and the addition of Austin will raise the talent of the line. By getting a good MLB we could move Kiwi back to the line where he belongs.

On offence, we need a LT desperately. I thought Petrus was not going to work out since they waited so long to insert him into the line-up. This really makes me wonder if Brewer is ready to step up but they are stubbornly holding him back out of loyalty to Mckenzie. I have no idea, but I am happy with the interior of the line, Petrus, Boothe, and Snee. It is the tackles that worry me.

I have watched a lot games with the Saint's and Pat's game this year, and I would like to spend a high pick on a TE but that is a luxury we can't afford right now. Also a receiver with reliable hands would be amazing. Right now I honestly think the best hands on the team is Barden, every time I have seen him targeted this year he has caught the ball. I think he will be stepping up big time next year, but it would be nice if I didn't get angina every time Eli throws the ball down the field over whether or not the receiver is going to drop it.

We need a durable starting running back. We have seen how our RB's perform when one of them is out with injury, and DJ Ware isn't scaring anybody. A RB that is durable, a decent runner, and can catch the ball out of the backfield is what we need. I thought we had that in Andre Brown but I guess the team disagreed. Maybe Scott can be that back, maybe he can't, but we need it.

Honestly, about the only position I feel like we don't need to look into is JPP and Eli.

I like Coughlin, I really really do, but he has one fatal flaw. He is too loyal to his coaches and to the players. Fewell needs to go, as well as Gilbride. And we have to get it into the heads of the players, the coaches, and management that previous performance from years past does not guarantee anything.

NY_Eli
12-19-2011, 07:55 PM
Anyone with a motor.

Only guys who give 100% non stop are Eli and JPP.

What about Bradshaw?

gumby742
12-19-2011, 08:06 PM
** A NEW GM WHO CAN LOAD THIS TEAM WITH QUALITY DEPTH SO THEY FINISH STRONG DOWN THE STRETCH INSTEAD OF FOLDING LIKE A CHEAP KITE EVERY YEAR SINCE EO RETIRED. Remember the SB run was with basically 80% of EO's players not JR's. JR has missed on so many draft pics & trades it's depleted this team & it's be showing up late in seasons for the last 3 years. BOOK IT. This squad has more overall talent and depth than the 08 team. Stick to watching ole miss</P>


Get a grip lawl, you are no where near as knowledgeable as you seem to think.** get off your stump and look in a mirror.</P>


The 2008 Giants OLine and RB's were much, much better than what we have now.* That 2008 team rushed for 2500 yards (including two players going over 1000 yards) averaging over 5 yards a pop.* That's huge!********** </P>


The 2010 Oline has been terrible.* 2010 Snee has playeed poorly and the rest of the Oline is worse than what we had in 2008.** At RB, the 2008 versions of Jacobs*and AB were healthier and better and had Ward as well. </P>


Offensively the 2010 team is a one-dimensional, passing team compared to the*great rushing*and passing offensive we had in 2008.* That 2008 team was a*Top 5 Offense which could run the ball down anyone's throat and pass well.</P>


Defensively, the 2008 DT's (Robbins and Coefield) were better than our*2010 DT's and a healthy Tuck (a 2008*stud) and Kiwi (very good year at RDE) provided better overal DE play than JPP(who has been a 2010 stud)*and a continually hurt Tuck and MIA Osi (who is one-dimensional when he did play).</P>


While not as much of a delta, the 2008*LB play was probably better as well.**AP (even in 2008) was better than anyone we have put out there in 2010.* The 2010 LB's have relied too heavily on rookies who*have shown*flashes of*hope, but have been exposed routinely.*****</P>


Bottom line:* stop trying to be a know-it-all lawl....because you don't.</P>

The 2008 offense was more talented. The defense was nowhere close as talented. Again, we're talking about talent here. Not results.

Let's revisit who we had on as LBers - AP, Danny Clark, and Chase Blackburn.

Secondary - Michael Johnson, Kevin Dockery, rw mcquarters, sammy knight, James Butler.

The dline was strong that year, but we have even more talent and depth this year.

Osi, Tuck, JPP, Canty, Joseph. In 2008 we had no depth which is why we signed Bernard and Canty afterwards. Now we have Osi, Tuck, JPP that can pretty much switch off. Canty while overpaid, is still solid. Joseph is turning out to be pretty good as well.

If you want to blame injuries, that's fine. But the roster this year on the defensive side of the ball is far more talented this year then in 2008.

JMFP2
12-19-2011, 08:15 PM
Actually addressing the linebacking situation. When was the last time we had a real stud at the lb position? Jessie Armstead?

Goff might be that guy, let's wait and see.


I disagree. Goff should fight for his job with a blue chip draft pick and the other walking wounded.

I'm tired of this team assuming they have found someone at LB.

lawl
12-19-2011, 08:17 PM
Get a grip lawl, you are no where near as knowledgeable as you seem to think. get off your stump and look in a mirror.</P>


The 2008 Giants OLine and RB's were much, much better than what we have now. That 2008 team rushed for 2500 yards (including two players going over 1000 yards) averaging over 5 yards a pop. That's huge! </P>


The 2010 Oline has been terrible. 2010 Snee has playeed poorly and the rest of the Oline is worse than what we had in 2008. At RB, the 2008 versions of Jacobsand AB were healthier and better and had Ward as well. </P>


Offensively the 2010 team is a one-dimensional, passing team compared to thegreat rushingand passing offensive we had in 2008. That 2008 team was aTop 5 Offense which could run the ball down anyone's throat and pass well.</P>


Defensively, the 2008 DT's (Robbins and Coefield) were better than our2010 DT's and a healthy Tuck (a 2008stud) and Kiwi (very good year at RDE) provided better overal DE play than JPP(who has been a 2010 stud)and a continually hurt Tuck and MIA Osi (who is one-dimensional when he did play).</P>


While not as much of a delta, the 2008LB play was probably better as well.AP (even in 2008) was better than anyone we have put out there in 2010. The 2010 LB's have relied too heavily on rookies whohave shownflashes ofhope, but have been exposed routinely.</P>


Bottom line: stop trying to be a know-it-all lawl....because you don't.</P>


</P>


Lets compare the talent.

We had butler and Johnson at safety. We've upgraded both of those positions.

We had webster and Ross starting. Ross would have been our #4 corner this year had injuries not set in. We've upgraded the CBs

We had kehl pierce and Danny Clark at linebacker. I'd venture to say that with goff our LBers are hands down better than that group with boley being on pace for pro bowl numbers pre injury. AP wasborderline useless in 08.

The DEs are the same except we now have jpp as well. That's a huge upgrade

We had cofield starting and Robbins was awful in 08. The dt position has about the same level of talent if not better now.

Our WRs are much much better now.

Our RBs arent as good.

Our OL isn't as good

Our QB is playing much much better.

How exactly has our talent level been going down??? It's Reese's job to put together the most talented team possible. He has no control over who gets hurt.

This team has more defensive talent than the 08 team and the offense is putting up historic numbers through the air. </P>


We're putting up 385 yards per game this year opposed to 355 yards per game in 08. </P>


Rob you should stick to childish banter. </P>

RobCarpenter
12-19-2011, 08:18 PM
A NEW GM WHO CAN LOAD THIS TEAM WITH QUALITY DEPTH SO THEY FINISH STRONG DOWN THE STRETCH INSTEAD OF FOLDING LIKE A CHEAP KITE EVERY YEAR SINCE EO RETIRED. Remember the SB run was with basically 80% of EO's players not JR's. JR has missed on so many draft pics &amp; trades it's depleted this team &amp; it's be showing up late in seasons for the last 3 years. BOOK IT. This squad has more overall talent and depth than the 08 team. Stick to watching ole miss</P>


Get a grip lawl, you are no where near as knowledgeable as you seem to think. get off your stump and look in a mirror.</P>


The 2008 Giants OLine and RB's were much, much better than what we have now. That 2008 team rushed for 2500 yards (including two players going over 1000 yards) averaging over 5 yards a pop. That's huge! </P>


The 2010 Oline has been terrible. 2010 Snee has playeed poorly and the rest of the Oline is worse than what we had in 2008. At RB, the 2008 versions of Jacobsand AB were healthier and better and had Ward as well. </P>


Offensively the 2010 team is a one-dimensional, passing team compared to thegreat rushingand passing offensive we had in 2008. That 2008 team was aTop 5 Offense which could run the ball down anyone's throat and pass well.</P>


Defensively, the 2008 DT's (Robbins and Coefield) were better than our2010 DT's and a healthy Tuck (a 2008stud) and Kiwi (very good year at RDE) provided better overal DE play than JPP(who has been a 2010 stud)and a continually hurt Tuck and MIA Osi (who is one-dimensional when he did play).</P>


While not as much of a delta, the 2008LB play was probably better as well.AP (even in 2008) was better than anyone we have put out there in 2010. The 2010 LB's have relied too heavily on rookies whohave shownflashes ofhope, but have been exposed routinely.</P>


Bottom line: stop trying to be a know-it-all lawl....because you don't.</P>


The 2008 offense was more talented. The defense was nowhere close as talented. Again, we're talking about talent here. Not results. Let's revisit who we had on as LBers - AP, Danny Clark, and Chase Blackburn. Secondary - Michael Johnson, Kevin Dockery, rw mcquarters, sammy knight, James Butler. The dline was strong that year, but we have even more talent and depth this year. Osi, Tuck, JPP, Canty, Joseph. In 2008 we had no depth which is why we signed Bernard and Canty afterwards. Now we have Osi, Tuck, JPP that can pretty much switch off. Canty while overpaid, is still solid. Joseph is turning out to be pretty good as well. If you want to blame injuries, that's fine. But the roster this year on the defensive side of the ball is far more talented this year then in 2008.</P>


You have to factor in injuries and age when comparing years....i.e., you can't be overly simplistic and say the 2008 and 2010 teams both had Tuck, so that's a wash. That's mindless. </P>


Simple example: 2008 Tuck &gt;&gt;&gt; 2010 Tuck (whohas been constantly hurt) </P>

JMFP2
12-19-2011, 08:23 PM
** A NEW GM WHO CAN LOAD THIS TEAM WITH QUALITY DEPTH SO THEY FINISH STRONG DOWN THE STRETCH INSTEAD OF FOLDING LIKE A CHEAP KITE EVERY YEAR SINCE EO RETIRED. Remember the SB run was with basically 80% of EO's players not JR's. JR has missed on so many draft pics & trades it's depleted this team & it's be showing up late in seasons for the last 3 years. BOOK IT. This squad has more overall talent and depth than the 08 team. Stick to watching ole miss</P>


Get a grip lawl, you are no where near as knowledgeable as you seem to think.** get off your stump and look in a mirror.</P>


The 2008 Giants OLine and RB's were much, much better than what we have now.* That 2008 team rushed for 2500 yards (including two players going over 1000 yards) averaging over 5 yards a pop.* That's huge!********** </P>


The 2010 Oline has been terrible.* 2010 Snee has playeed poorly and the rest of the Oline is worse than what we had in 2008.** At RB, the 2008 versions of Jacobs*and AB were healthier and better and had Ward as well. </P>


Offensively the 2010 team is a one-dimensional, passing team compared to the*great rushing*and passing offensive we had in 2008.* That 2008 team was a*Top 5 Offense which could run the ball down anyone's throat and pass well.</P>


Defensively, the 2008 DT's (Robbins and Coefield) were better than our*2010 DT's and a healthy Tuck (a 2008*stud) and Kiwi (very good year at RDE) provided better overal DE play than JPP(who has been a 2010 stud)*and a continually hurt Tuck and MIA Osi (who is one-dimensional when he did play).</P>


While not as much of a delta, the 2008*LB play was probably better as well.**AP (even in 2008) was better than anyone we have put out there in 2010.* The 2010 LB's have relied too heavily on rookies who*have shown*flashes of*hope, but have been exposed routinely.*****</P>


Bottom line:* stop trying to be a know-it-all lawl....because you don't.</P>


The 2008 offense was more talented. The defense was nowhere close as talented. Again, we're talking about talent here. Not results. Let's revisit who we had on as LBers - AP, Danny Clark, and Chase Blackburn. Secondary - Michael Johnson, Kevin Dockery, rw mcquarters, sammy knight, James Butler. The dline was strong that year, but we have even more talent and depth this year. Osi, Tuck, JPP, Canty, Joseph. In 2008 we had no depth which is why we signed Bernard and Canty afterwards. Now we have Osi, Tuck, JPP that can pretty much switch off. Canty while overpaid, is still solid. Joseph is turning out to be pretty good as well. If you want to blame injuries, that's fine. But the roster this year on the defensive side of the ball is far more talented this year then in 2008.</P>


You have to factor in injuries and age when comparing years....i.e., you can't be overly simplistic and say the 2008 and 2010 teams both had Tuck, so that's a wash.* That's mindless.* </P>


Simple example:* 2008 Tuck >>> 2010 Tuck (who*has been constantly hurt)** </P>

Spags is so much better than Fewell that it's difficult to really judge the talent on the rosters.

But Strahan, Tuck and Osi were unreal toward the end of the year. 2011 Tuck and Osi are just sad.

lawl
12-19-2011, 08:25 PM
A NEW GM WHO CAN LOAD THIS TEAM WITH QUALITY DEPTH SO THEY FINISH STRONG DOWN THE STRETCH INSTEAD OF FOLDING LIKE A CHEAP KITE EVERY YEAR SINCE EO RETIRED. Remember the SB run was with basically 80% of EO's players not JR's. JR has missed on so many draft pics &amp; trades it's depleted this team &amp; it's be showing up late in seasons for the last 3 years. BOOK IT. This squad has more overall talent and depth than the 08 team. Stick to watching ole miss</P>


Get a grip lawl, you are no where near as knowledgeable as you seem to think. get off your stump and look in a mirror.</P>


The 2008 Giants OLine and RB's were much, much better than what we have now. That 2008 team rushed for 2500 yards (including two players going over 1000 yards) averaging over 5 yards a pop. That's huge! </P>


The 2010 Oline has been terrible. 2010 Snee has playeed poorly and the rest of the Oline is worse than what we had in 2008. At RB, the 2008 versions of Jacobsand AB were healthier and better and had Ward as well. </P>


Offensively the 2010 team is a one-dimensional, passing team compared to thegreat rushingand passing offensive we had in 2008. That 2008 team was aTop 5 Offense which could run the ball down anyone's throat and pass well.</P>


Defensively, the 2008 DT's (Robbins and Coefield) were better than our2010 DT's and a healthy Tuck (a 2008stud) and Kiwi (very good year at RDE) provided better overal DE play than JPP(who has been a 2010 stud)and a continually hurt Tuck and MIA Osi (who is one-dimensional when he did play).</P>


While not as much of a delta, the 2008LB play was probably better as well.AP (even in 2008) was better than anyone we have put out there in 2010. The 2010 LB's have relied too heavily on rookies whohave shownflashes ofhope, but have been exposed routinely.</P>


Bottom line: stop trying to be a know-it-all lawl....because you don't.</P>


The 2008 offense was more talented. The defense was nowhere close as talented. Again, we're talking about talent here. Not results. Let's revisit who we had on as LBers - AP, Danny Clark, and Chase Blackburn. Secondary - Michael Johnson, Kevin Dockery, rw mcquarters, sammy knight, James Butler. The dline was strong that year, but we have even more talent and depth this year. Osi, Tuck, JPP, Canty, Joseph. In 2008 we had no depth which is why we signed Bernard and Canty afterwards. Now we have Osi, Tuck, JPP that can pretty much switch off. Canty while overpaid, is still solid. Joseph is turning out to be pretty good as well. If you want to blame injuries, that's fine. But the roster this year on the defensive side of the ball is far more talented this year then in 2008.</P>


You have to factor in injuries and age when comparing years....i.e., you can't be overly simplistic and say the 2008 and 2010 teams both had Tuck, so that's a wash. That's mindless. </P>


Simple example: 2008 Tuck &gt;&gt;&gt; 2010 Tuck (whohas been constantly hurt) </P>


</P>


Tuck is just as talented now as he was in 08. Some guys aren't as good as they were in 08(jacobs) and some are alotbetter(Eli), butjudging the roster from day 1 thisteam is much better on paper than that of 08 and it's not even close.Reese has no control over who gets hurt. </P>

RobCarpenter
12-19-2011, 08:25 PM
Get a grip lawl, you are no where near as knowledgeable as you seem to think. get off your stump and look in a mirror.</P>


The 2008 Giants OLine and RB's were much, much better than what we have now. That 2008 team rushed for 2500 yards (including two players going over 1000 yards) averaging over 5 yards a pop. That's huge! </P>


The 2010 Oline has been terrible. 2010 Snee has playeed poorly and the rest of the Oline is worse than what we had in 2008. At RB, the 2008 versions of Jacobsand AB were healthier and better and had Ward as well. </P>


Offensively the 2010 team is a one-dimensional, passing team compared to thegreat rushingand passing offensive we had in 2008. That 2008 team was aTop 5 Offense which could run the ball down anyone's throat and pass well.</P>


Defensively, the 2008 DT's (Robbins and Coefield) were better than our2010 DT's and a healthy Tuck (a 2008stud) and Kiwi (very good year at RDE) provided better overal DE play than JPP(who has been a 2010 stud)and a continually hurt Tuck and MIA Osi (who is one-dimensional when he did play).</P>


While not as much of a delta, the 2008LB play was probably better as well.AP (even in 2008) was better than anyone we have put out there in 2010. The 2010 LB's have relied too heavily on rookies whohave shownflashes ofhope, but have been exposed routinely.</P>


Bottom line: stop trying to be a know-it-all lawl....because you don't.</P>


</P>


Lets compare the talent.

We had butler and Johnson at safety. We've upgraded both of those positions.

We had webster and Ross starting. Ross would have been our #4 corner this year had injuries not set in. We've upgraded the CBs

We had kehl pierce and Danny Clark at linebacker. I'd venture to say that with goff our LBers are hands down better than that group with boley being on pace for pro bowl numbers pre injury. AP wasborderline useless in 08.

The DEs are the same except we now have jpp as well. That's a huge upgrade

We had Cofield starting and Robbins was awful in 08. The dt position has about the same level of talent if not better now.

Our WRs are much much better now.

Our RBs arent as good.

Our OL isn't as good

Our QB is playing much much better.

How exactly has our talent level been going down??? It's Reese's job to put together the most talented team possible. He has no control over who gets hurt.

This team has more defensive talent than the 08 team and the offense is putting up historic numbers through the air. </P>


We're putting up 385 yards per game this year opposed to 355 yards per game in 08. </P>


Rob you should stick to childish banter. </P>


</P>


Get a grip lawl.</P>


2008 Tuck &gt;&gt;&gt; 2011 Tuck</P>


2008 RB's &gt;&gt;&gt; 2011 RB's</P>


2008 Oline &gt;&gt;&gt; 2011 Oline</P>


You can say AP was "borderline useless", but he lead the 2008 team in tackles andwas the Defensive field leader of a Defense that was ranked Top 5 in the League.</P>


2008 LB's &gt; 2010 LB's (we didn't run a bunch of rookies out there 2008...and stop this Boley is playing like a ProBowler crap, that's blind Homer talk)</P>


2008 DT's (Coefield and Robbins) &gt;&gt; 2011 DT's</P>


</P>


</P>

lawl
12-19-2011, 08:26 PM
A NEW GM WHO CAN LOAD THIS TEAM WITH QUALITY DEPTH SO THEY FINISH STRONG DOWN THE STRETCH INSTEAD OF FOLDING LIKE A CHEAP KITE EVERY YEAR SINCE EO RETIRED. Remember the SB run was with basically 80% of EO's players not JR's. JR has missed on so many draft pics &amp; trades it's depleted this team &amp; it's be showing up late in seasons for the last 3 years. BOOK IT. This squad has more overall talent and depth than the 08 team. Stick to watching ole miss</P>


Get a grip lawl, you are no where near as knowledgeable as you seem to think. get off your stump and look in a mirror.</P>


The 2008 Giants OLine and RB's were much, much better than what we have now. That 2008 team rushed for 2500 yards (including two players going over 1000 yards) averaging over 5 yards a pop. That's huge! </P>


The 2010 Oline has been terrible. 2010 Snee has playeed poorly and the rest of the Oline is worse than what we had in 2008. At RB, the 2008 versions of Jacobsand AB were healthier and better and had Ward as well. </P>


Offensively the 2010 team is a one-dimensional, passing team compared to thegreat rushingand passing offensive we had in 2008. That 2008 team was aTop 5 Offense which could run the ball down anyone's throat and pass well.</P>


Defensively, the 2008 DT's (Robbins and Coefield) were better than our2010 DT's and a healthy Tuck (a 2008stud) and Kiwi (very good year at RDE) provided better overal DE play than JPP(who has been a 2010 stud)and a continually hurt Tuck and MIA Osi (who is one-dimensional when he did play).</P>


While not as much of a delta, the 2008LB play was probably better as well.AP (even in 2008) was better than anyone we have put out there in 2010. The 2010 LB's have relied too heavily on rookies whohave shownflashes ofhope, but have been exposed routinely.</P>


Bottom line: stop trying to be a know-it-all lawl....because you don't.</P>


The 2008 offense was more talented. The defense was nowhere close as talented. Again, we're talking about talent here. Not results. Let's revisit who we had on as LBers - AP, Danny Clark, and Chase Blackburn. Secondary - Michael Johnson, Kevin Dockery, rw mcquarters, sammy knight, James Butler. The dline was strong that year, but we have even more talent and depth this year. Osi, Tuck, JPP, Canty, Joseph. In 2008 we had no depth which is why we signed Bernard and Canty afterwards. Now we have Osi, Tuck, JPP that can pretty much switch off. Canty while overpaid, is still solid. Joseph is turning out to be pretty good as well. If you want to blame injuries, that's fine. But the roster this year on the defensive side of the ball is far more talented this year then in 2008.</P>


You have to factor in injuries and age when comparing years....i.e., you can't be overly simplistic and say the 2008 and 2010 teams both had Tuck, so that's a wash. That's mindless. </P>


Simple example: 2008 Tuck &gt;&gt;&gt; 2010 Tuck (whohas been constantly hurt) </P>


Spags is so much better than Fewell that it's difficult to really judge the talent on the rosters. But Strahan, Tuck and Osi were unreal toward the end of the year. 2011 Tuck and Osi are just sad.</P>


Strahan wasn't on the 2008 roster....</P>

lawl
12-19-2011, 08:33 PM
Get a grip lawl, you are no where near as knowledgeable as you seem to think. get off your stump and look in a mirror.</P>


The 2008 Giants OLine and RB's were much, much better than what we have now. That 2008 team rushed for 2500 yards (including two players going over 1000 yards) averaging over 5 yards a pop. That's huge! </P>


The 2010 Oline has been terrible. 2010 Snee has playeed poorly and the rest of the Oline is worse than what we had in 2008. At RB, the 2008 versions of Jacobsand AB were healthier and better and had Ward as well. </P>


Offensively the 2010 team is a one-dimensional, passing team compared to thegreat rushingand passing offensive we had in 2008. That 2008 team was aTop 5 Offense which could run the ball down anyone's throat and pass well.</P>


Defensively, the 2008 DT's (Robbins and Coefield) were better than our2010 DT's and a healthy Tuck (a 2008stud) and Kiwi (very good year at RDE) provided better overal DE play than JPP(who has been a 2010 stud)and a continually hurt Tuck and MIA Osi (who is one-dimensional when he did play).</P>


While not as much of a delta, the 2008LB play was probably better as well.AP (even in 2008) was better than anyone we have put out there in 2010. The 2010 LB's have relied too heavily on rookies whohave shownflashes ofhope, but have been exposed routinely.</P>


Bottom line: stop trying to be a know-it-all lawl....because you don't.</P>


</P>


Lets compare the talent.

We had butler and Johnson at safety. We've upgraded both of those positions.

We had webster and Ross starting. Ross would have been our #4 corner this year had injuries not set in. We've upgraded the CBs

We had kehl pierce and Danny Clark at linebacker. I'd venture to say that with goff our LBers are hands down better than that group with boley being on pace for pro bowl numbers pre injury. AP wasborderline useless in 08.

The DEs are the same except we now have jpp as well. That's a huge upgrade

We had Cofield starting and Robbins was awful in 08. The dt position has about the same level of talent if not better now.

Our WRs are much much better now.

Our RBs arent as good.

Our OL isn't as good

Our QB is playing much much better.

How exactly has our talent level been going down??? It's Reese's job to put together the most talented team possible. He has no control over who gets hurt.

This team has more defensive talent than the 08 team and the offense is putting up historic numbers through the air. </P>


We're putting up 385 yards per game this year opposed to 355 yards per game in 08. </P>


Rob you should stick to childish banter. </P>


</P>


Get a grip lawl.</P>


2008 Tuck &gt;&gt;&gt; 2010 Tuck</P>


2008 RB's &gt;&gt;&gt; 2010 RB's</P>


2008 Oline &gt;&gt;&gt; 2010 Oline</P>


You can say AP was "borderline useless", but he lead the 2008 team in tackles andwas the Defensive field leader of a Defense that was ranked Top 5 in the League.</P>


2008 LB's &gt; 2010 LB's (we didn't run a bunch of rookies out there 2008...and stop this Boley is playing like a ProBowler crap, that's blind Homer talk)</P>


2008 DT's (Coefield and Robbins) &gt;&gt; 2010 DT's</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


You're judging the level of talent of injured players. Do you realize how stupid that is when talking about the how good of a job the GM has done? Tuck is just as good now as he was in 08, the only difference is that he's hurt so he's not playing as well. There is a very distinct difference in being hurt and not being as good. This of course is over your head. Imagine that.</P>


Cofield and Robbins are just as good as Canty and Joseph not to mention going into the year we had a 2nd round pick and our 4th DT was Rocky Bernard, that's an extraordinarily higher amount of depth and talent at the DT position opposed to 08.</P>


RBs aren't as good, and the OL isn't as good. Thats about it. Boley was on pace for 100 tackle season. It's also no coincidence that TEs haven't done **** against us when Boley's on the field, that wasn't the case in 08 with fat Piece running around.</P>

Gianthunter
12-19-2011, 08:35 PM
53 Players that have an overwhelming hunger for a ring. Talent rises to the top and overcomes. Any stat hounds and history buffs see that happening?

Delicreep
12-19-2011, 08:40 PM
# 1 ...........a new DC .......someone who respects the proud traditions of DEFENSE of the NEW YORK FOOTBALL GIANTS

sorry Perry , your D has been a disgrace to the franchise

Gonna add to this, and connect it to the OP's post:

Our defense is essentially without any identity.

Some players are certainly seen as "types" or "roll players" but the unit is essentially 11 guys who run a series of plays without any theme or identity.

I am not shocked that there is nobody on that side of the ball who leads, since nobody on that side of the ball has any clue what the D is all about.

Get a new DC; get a philosophy, and a leader will emerge.

slipknottin
12-19-2011, 08:48 PM
Strahan wasn't on the 2008 roster....</P>

Neither was Osi, he spent the season on IR.

Spizi
12-19-2011, 08:50 PM
feel free to discuss what you think is the 1 thing that would make this team a contender (or say that they're too far from contending for one thing to make a difference).</P>


I'm leaning towards the latter, but if i had to pick one thing its passionate roster leadership.</P>


Since AP and Strahan left this team, we've had variations of the same problems, late season swoons, horribly flat performances in huge games, massive confusion on defense, no passion on or off the field.</P>


while i think you could make an argument for coaching, the ability of this roster to tune out the coachings staff means its only a matter of time before it finds a reason to tune the new coaching staff out.</P>


that's harder to do when someone's waiting at your locker to tear you a new one, pick you up when you're starting to fold, *and tell you to get in freakin' line when you need to.</P>


more than anything, more than positional talent or coaches, this team needs respected onfield leadership again.</P>

A NEW GM WHO CAN LOAD THIS TEAM WITH QUALITY DEPTH SO THEY FINISH STRONG DOWN THE STRETCH INSTEAD OF FOLDING LIKE A CHEAP KITE EVERY YEAR SINCE EO RETIRED.

Remember the SB run was with basically 80% of EO's players not JR's. JR has missed on so many draft pics & trades it's depleted this team & it's be showing up late in seasons for the last 3 years.

BOOK IT.

Seriously! What has Reese done that is so great?!?! Besides Boley his FA signings have been abismal, and he has had some really bad draft picks. He had Smith and Boss but completely lets them go. Nicks and JPP have been great but cmon they're first round picks they should be good. Where are the later round gems??? No where.

Kenny Phillips is just an above average player and TT and MM were solid picks. basically the entire 2009 draft besides nicks has been a bust and if linval turns out to be good then the 2010 draft won't be a total bust either. Reese has done nothing to show me that he deserves to stay after this year.

NYfanatic
12-19-2011, 09:27 PM
1. New Coaching - We have changed the players a bit and the coaching beside D has stayed the same mostly. Time for a change. Starts with "Coughing" Coughlin
2. Oline - Cant be a successful team with guys like Mckenzie, Bass and Diehl starting on this Oline. A good oline gives our Elite Eli more time to throw the ball and a rushing game.
3. Leadership - No doubt we need some passion. Hope a new coach brings in a guy or fires up a young gun (Could it be a guy like Herzlich?) too become the new Captain. Tuck needs to be stripped and told to try again next year.

JJC7301
12-19-2011, 10:48 PM
feel free to discuss what you think is the 1 thing that would make this team a contender (or say that they're too far from contending for one thing to make a difference).</P>


I'm leaning towards the latter, but if i had to pick one thing its passionate roster leadership.</P>


Since AP and Strahan left this team, we've had variations of the same problems, late season swoons, horribly flat performances in huge games, massive confusion on defense, no passion on or off the field.</P>


while i think you could make an argument for coaching, the ability of this roster to tune out the coachings staff means its only a matter of time before it finds a reason to tune the new coaching staff out.</P>


that's harder to do when someone's waiting at your locker to tear you a new one, pick you up when you're starting to fold, *and tell you to get in freakin' line when you need to.</P>


more than anything, more than positional talent or coaches, this team needs respected onfield leadership again.</P>
I'm not a fan of the coaches, but I don't think they are horrible. I believe that this team has talent, but not as much as we thought. More than anything, this team needs players brought in (draft and FA) who have passion and heart. Play like they leave everything on the field and that they fear losing, even more than enjoy winning.

ShakeNBake
12-19-2011, 10:52 PM
As others have said, we have no leadership especially on defense. We need to draft a linebacker with a mean streak and leadership qualities first and foremost.

JJC7301
12-19-2011, 10:56 PM
As others have said, we have no leadership especially on defense. We need to draft a linebacker with a mean streak and leadership qualities first and foremost.

Or sign one via FA. Draft best talent available.

ShakeNBake
12-19-2011, 11:09 PM
As others have said, we have no leadership especially on defense. We need to draft a linebacker with a mean streak and leadership qualities first and foremost.

Or sign one via FA. Draft best talent available.

Like who? Timmons and Beason were resigned so I don't think theres any big upgrades available via FA unless we trade for someone.

fewellmustgo
12-19-2011, 11:12 PM
To fire Fewell. Thats our biggest need.

HilliardFan16
12-19-2011, 11:49 PM
I will not sleep at night until the Giants land a BIG TIME linebacker. A freak. Even if it takes them 4 years to get him.

Spizi
12-19-2011, 11:53 PM
I will not sleep at night until the Giants land a BIG TIME linebacker. A freak. Even if it takes them 4 years to get him.

Kuechly end of story.

IAmTheFly
12-20-2011, 12:45 AM
I think they need a few things but I'm going to start with the obvious choice and say DC. The defense is a catastrophe this season, and it was last season too when it mattered most. I keep hearing Fewell and Coughlin talking about execution but I think there is more to it than that. I believe there is more talent on the defense than the results are showing, and preparation is just as big a problem as execution.

It's hard to imagine such an absolutely confused looking bunch suddenly righting the ship in week 16. I'm always hopeful and I would go as far as saying I still have some confidence they will make the playoffs. But I really think Fewell's fate is sealed. And probably Coughlin's too.

Coughlin says the same things every week and I know he can't go out there and make the plays but I've wondered about his ability to arouse passion in his players since he arrived. He's a stern old man and in today's game I think it's just as important that players relate to their coach. It's why you see younger coaches and more former players. For example, not to open up a can of worms but take the after game prayer. I wonder how many players actually relate to that. Of course his superbowl ring can be used to counter everything I've said. They won it, and I'm grateful for it, and Coughlin deserves all the kudos he got from it. But you cant ride it forever. How many total meltdowns have we seen over the last few seasons?

I don't have a problem with Gilbride. I think he works well with Eli. The running game sucks this year, and that puts a lot of pressure on the QB and the rest of the offence but personally I'm not putting that on KG. Not this year. I know a lot of people disagree.

I'm not ready to give up on Reese either. He's made some good choices and some bad ones. Pretty much par for the course for GMs. I'd be surprised if he is fired.

Get Antrel Rolle the hell out of that room. He is just a mouthpiece and has been since he arrived. Francesa had a guest on today and they were comparing him to Tiki Barber and I think it was a good comparison. Those aren't team guys. But at least Barber was a great player. I don't know where Rolle gets off. He's gone.

It's the first time in years that the O-line sucks. Hopefully Boothe and Petrus continue to progress otherwise that will be a major issue with the older guys fading out.

Running back is also a concern. Linebacker always is. Middle of the D-line should have been a strength this year but very disappointing. Really makes me appreciate how good Robbins and Cofield were a few years ago.

There are a enough good players on the roster that I don't think it's time to blow everything up. But there are a lot of holes. I hope to see Reese plugging those, and a new coach getting more out of the players and his staff.

WMBG
12-20-2011, 01:02 AM
we're one good tackle, one solid lb, and a healthy roster away from being absolutely dominant.

its not so dark, guys.

fewellmustgo
12-20-2011, 01:56 AM
I think they need a few things but I'm going to start with the obvious choice and say DC. The defense is a catastrophe this season, and it was last season too when it mattered most. I keep hearing Fewell and Coughlin talking about execution but I think there is more to it than that. I believe there is more talent on the defense than the results are showing, and preparation is just as big a problem as execution.

It's hard to imagine such an absolutely confused looking bunch suddenly righting the ship in week 16. I'm always hopeful and I would go as far as saying I still have some confidence they will make the playoffs. But I really think Fewell's fate is sealed. And probably Coughlin's too.

Coughlin says the same things every week and I know he can't go out there and make the plays but I've wondered about his ability to arouse passion in his players since he arrived. He's a stern old man and in today's game I think it's just as important that players relate to their coach. It's why you see younger coaches and more former players. For example, not to open up a can of worms but take the after game prayer. I wonder how many players actually relate to that. Of course his superbowl ring can be used to counter everything I've said. They won it, and I'm grateful for it, and Coughlin deserves all the kudos he got from it. But you cant ride it forever. How many total meltdowns have we seen over the last few seasons?

I don't have a problem with Gilbride. I think he works well with Eli. The running game sucks this year, and that puts a lot of pressure on the QB and the rest of the offence but personally I'm not putting that on KG. Not this year. I know a lot of people disagree.

I'm not ready to give up on Reese either. He's made some good choices and some bad ones. Pretty much par for the course for GMs. I'd be surprised if he is fired.

Get Antrel Rolle the hell out of that room. He is just a mouthpiece and has been since he arrived. Francesa had a guest on today and they were comparing him to Tiki Barber and I think it was a good comparison. Those aren't team guys. But at least Barber was a great player. I don't know where Rolle gets off. He's gone.

It's the first time in years that the O-line sucks. Hopefully Boothe and Petrus continue to progress otherwise that will be a major issue with the older guys fading out.

Running back is also a concern. Linebacker always is. Middle of the D-line should have been a strength this year but very disappointing. Really makes me appreciate how good Robbins and Cofield were a few years ago.

There are a enough good players on the roster that I don't think it's time to blow everything up. But there are a lot of holes. I hope to see Reese plugging those, and a new coach getting more out of the players and his staff.

I agree with about everything you said but the Rolle part. I'm willing to give him one more year but the rest of your post is right on. We are probably the only 2 who dont have a problem with Gilbride on this whole board lol.

Buto
12-20-2011, 04:26 AM
feel free to discuss what you think is the 1 thing that would make this team a contender (or say that they're too far from contending for one thing to make a difference).</p>


I'm leaning towards the latter, but if i had to pick one thing its passionate roster leadership.</p>


Since AP and Strahan left this team, we've had variations of the same problems, late season swoons, horribly flat performances in huge games, massive confusion on defense, no passion on or off the field.</p>


while i think you could make an argument for coaching, the ability of this roster to tune out the coachings staff means its only a matter of time before it finds a reason to tune the new coaching staff out.</p>


that's harder to do when someone's waiting at your locker to tear you a new one, pick you up when you're starting to fold, and tell you to get in freakin' line when you need to.</p>


more than anything, more than positional talent or coaches, this team needs respected onfield leadership again.</p>

<font color="#FF0000" size="6">Belichick</font><font color="#FF0000" size="6">!</font>
Now that I've got that out of my system I think we need to look into the IQs of these guys.
This seems to be a collection of poorly educated knuckle heads on defense.
I can just see their eyes glaze over as they try to understand the film they're supposed to be studying.
I can't understand how communication can be this big a problem this deep into the season.
Is it comprehension? To some degree probably.
Injuries? You bet, but that's only part of it issue
The staff that's charged with teaching these guys the system and how to use what they've learned are piss poor. Things a simple as where do I stand when someone make this call?

The truly intelligent players on this team are unwilling (understandably) to lead this group of buffoons.
Kiwi, Boley, and even Cofield before he left have all avoided leadership of these clowns.
All we're left with for leaders is reluctant shoulder shruggers and sound bite queens

I've got to stop here.

I'm getting a headache.

Buto
12-20-2011, 07:46 AM
I rambled on earlier in this post.
I wish I had seen this link before hand.
Someone may have put this link in earlier but I don't care.
You need to read it again anyway.

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2011/12/ex-giants_linebacker_antonio_p.html

jomo
12-20-2011, 08:56 AM
A DC with immagination in developing game plans, making mid game adjustments and putting players in positions where they can have the most impact.

Captain Chaos
12-20-2011, 09:29 AM
With the exception of the 2007 championship run, we had a lot of the same nonsense going on when Strahan and Pierce were here . . . . .

You had a couple of additional personalities back then...dare I say Tiki. The thing was Strahan grew up and took the reins.

poppa smurph
12-20-2011, 10:27 AM
Without doing a complete 2010 evaluation ( coaching gets a pass here ), the most glaring need as the roster stands now is O-Line. The downward spiral that has been our running-game is proof alone.</P>


LB'er and the secondary also need a shot in the arm, but it might not be as bad as we think, or could be, depending how guys are making out rehabbing. All I can say here is, thankfully there's an Offseason this year.</P>


FB and TE could also use an upgrade. I like Ballard, but after that, Beckum bends like glass, and cannot be counted on.</P>


I'd be happy enough if we went BPA at RB in the 3rd round, and kept our eyes open during FA.</P>


In all likely-hood, the coaching staff will be re-vampedfor 2011-12. It's still a little early, but I think Coughlin's history of 2nd half collapses will be his undoing. Collateral damage could include Fewell, but something makes me think Gilbride's long term work with Eli saves him, but keeps him on a short leash.</P>


</P>

burier
12-20-2011, 11:22 AM
As others have said, we have no leadership especially on defense. We need to draft a linebacker with a mean streak and leadership qualities first and foremost.

Or sign one via FA. Draft best talent available.

Like who? Timmons and Beason were resigned so I don't think theres any big upgrades available via FA unless we trade for someone.


And trade we must. Right now we have a whole load of guys on defense that I'd happily trade for a stud linebacker. Actually I'd give The 49ers Tuck, Osi and Canty for Patrick Willis (the 9ers wouldn't do it which tells you we overvalue players)

But between Tuck, Osi and Canty we should be able to make a deal to get a real linebacker.

Tuck is useless. Do we really want a guy who gets a little hurt and then goes in the tank? Its one things to have your production go down because you're not 100% its another thing as a Captain to roll over and let your Defense take it in the tailpipe every week.

Osi is equally useless. Has been in the league forever and still hasn't developed a bullrush. Can't do **** if he can't use his one speed rush move for a strip. He's old news.

Canty is ok but he's over paid and he doesn't go all out every time. He needs to go. I don't even want to cut his pay because then he'll whine and be a distraction.

We need young FAST (Our team speed on defense is shockingly bad.)

Corey Webster is having his worst season since maybe his second year. Every pick he has this season are due the QB throwing the ball directly to him. Go back and check it out.. Every single one. He usually gets beat deep. He's too slow.

Same for Ross. Far too slow. Rolle looks slow too. Grant is very slow. Boley is fast but everyone else who plays linebacker is slow OR just not good enough to play negating their speed.

We need younger mean players who actually want to play and win. We need guys on defense who refuse to allow the Rex Grossmans of the world look good in their house.

These guys laughing and joking after they got embarassed made me want to stop watching football all together.

Kruunch
12-20-2011, 11:28 AM
Actually addressing the linebacking situation. When was the last time we had a real stud at the lb position? Jessie Armstead?

Goff might be that guy, let's wait and see.


I disagree. Goff should fight for his job with a blue chip draft pick and the other walking wounded.

I'm tired of this team assuming they have found someone at LB.

Goff is a good run stuffer and plays upfield well but doesn't have the range or cover skills to be an above average MLB in a Tampa 2 system.

With him tearing his ACL, it means he will most likely be a liability next year as well, so you won't see the "real" Goff until 2013.

I'd cut bait personally, or at least move him to SAM and find yourself a high motor MLB with sideline to sideline speed.

JesseJames
12-20-2011, 11:44 AM
What position on this team doesn't have depth? OL maybe? That's about it. Reese has built a ton of depth only to see it get tested every season.if you're responding to me I was referring to quality depth not just a warm body, you know guys you can plug in and they can play.

JJC7301
12-20-2011, 12:28 PM
Anyway to swing a trade for Jared Allen? The Giants could use him opposite of JPP and put Tuck in the middle.

Kase-1
12-20-2011, 12:32 PM
Anyway to swing a trade for Jared Allen? The Giants could use him opposite of JPP and put Tuck in the middle.Tuck hasnt been good in the middle since we had Strahan and Osi was the Osi that he THINKS he is.

Right now Tuck would get blown off of the line and he'd be a liability. His play has suffered greatly this year and putting him at DT would only magnify his poor play that we've seen all season.

sharick88
12-20-2011, 02:05 PM
Actually addressing the linebacking situation. When was the last time we had a real stud at the lb position? Jessie Armstead?

Goff might be that guy, let's wait and see.

Goff is very good against the run, but left a lot to be desired in pass coverage. Plus he is coming off of that serious injury. I just don't see him being more than an average LB. I hope that I am wrong, but this is just my opinion

Providence
12-20-2011, 03:09 PM
feel free to discuss what you think is the 1 thing that would make this team a contender (or say that they're too far from contending for one thing to make a difference).</P>


I'm leaning towards the latter, but if i had to pick one thing its passionate roster leadership.</P>


Since AP and Strahan left this team, we've had variations of the same problems, late season swoons, horribly flat performances in huge games, massive confusion on defense, no passion on or off the field.</P>


while i think you could make an argument for coaching, the ability of this roster to tune out the coachings staff means its only a matter of time before it finds a reason to tune the new coaching staff out.</P>


that's harder to do when someone's waiting at your locker to tear you a new one, pick you up when you're starting to fold, *and tell you to get in freakin' line when you need to.</P>


more than anything, more than positional talent or coaches, this team needs respected onfield leadership again.</P>

Fans want to see players with passion because fans operate solely on passion. We don't gain the money, power, women, influence players get by simply being fans. So all we have is passion. We are passionate about our wins and we are passionate about our loses.

As such, we want to see a player/coach that's going to call out a guy who drops an easy TD or throw the ball into the crowd after an amazing kick return. We want to see that because, in a nut shell, that's what we as fans would want to do if we were on the field: Show the emotion.

Unfortunately, the idea that such a thing translates into wins is a myth (in my opinion of course). Often times when I say such things people site a player like Ray Lewis or Drew Brees; players that show a lot of emotion, lead pre-game chants, fire up the crowd, etc. They will cite the success of teams like Baltimore on New Orleans and relate it to the "passionate" traits of those players. The reality is that New Orleans and Baltimore are competitive not because Ray Lewis and Drew Brees are passionate, but because Ray Lewis and Drew Brees are Ray Lewis and Drew Brees (in other words, they are very good players that produce, thus increasing their chances of winning).

Additionally, how does a fan know if a team has a passionate leader or not? Since we are not part of the organization we would only know by what was told to us via the radio, newspaper, TV, internet. So we would only know about said leaders if the media chose to cover that story. This is obviously flawed because perhaps ESPN 30 for 30 has been wanting to do a story on the passionate locker room presence of Mitch Petrus, but there have just been too many better stories to run. That's a ridiculous example, I know, but it examplifies that we as fans are reliant on the media to portray players as leaders and thus are unable to truly know the extent of someone's so called "passionate leadership." There could be several on and off-field leaders and we don't know about it.

CDN you always have had great comments in this ocean of garbage that is the New York Giants message board and I like the thought you put into this. Nevertheless, I must respectfully disagree that a passionate on/off field leader is what we are missing. I feel like such a desire, which most fans including myself share is a product of frsutration, not a knowledge that it would produce a championship run.

With all of that said I will finally answer your question as to what the one piece we are missing is:

A pro-bowl linebacker. If we had that, a lot of our problems would be solved.

yoeddy
12-20-2011, 03:42 PM
feel free to discuss what you think is the 1 thing that would make this team a contender (or say that they're too far from contending for one thing to make a difference).</P>


I'm leaning towards the latter, but if i had to pick one thing its passionate roster leadership.</P>


Since AP and Strahan left this team, we've had variations of the same problems, late season swoons, horribly flat performances in huge games, massive confusion on defense, no passion on or off the field.</P>


while i think you could make an argument for coaching, the ability of this roster to tune out the coachings staff means its only a matter of time before it finds a reason to tune the new coaching staff out.</P>


that's harder to do when someone's waiting at your locker to tear you a new one, pick you up when you're starting to fold, *and tell you to get in freakin' line when you need to.</P>


more than anything, more than positional talent or coaches, this team needs respected onfield leadership again.</P>

Cheerleaders. The players would play harder to impress the hot chicks...

GMENAGAIN
12-20-2011, 03:43 PM
feel free to discuss what you think is the 1 thing that would make this team a contender (or say that they're too far from contending for one thing to make a difference).</P>


I'm leaning towards the latter, but if i had to pick one thing its passionate roster leadership.</P>


Since AP and Strahan left this team, we've had variations of the same problems, late season swoons, horribly flat performances in huge games, massive confusion on defense, no passion on or off the field.</P>


while i think you could make an argument for coaching, the ability of this roster to tune out the coachings staff means its only a matter of time before it finds a reason to tune the new coaching staff out.</P>


that's harder to do when someone's waiting at your locker to tear you a new one, pick you up when you're starting to fold, and tell you to get in freakin' line when you need to.</P>


more than anything, more than positional talent or coaches, this team needs respected onfield leadership again.</P>


Fans want to see players with passion because fans operate solely on passion. We don't gain the money, power, women, influence players get by simply being fans. So all we have is passion. We are passionate about our wins and we are passionate about our loses. As such, we want to see a player/coach that's going to call out a guy who drops an easy TD or throw the ball into the crowd after an amazing kick return. We want to see that because, in a nut shell, that's what we as fans would want to do if we were on the field: Show the emotion. Unfortunately, the idea that such a thing translates into wins is a myth (in my opinion of course). Often times when I say such things people site a player like Ray Lewis or Drew Brees; players that show a lot of emotion, lead pre-game chants, fire up the crowd, etc. They will cite the success of teams like Baltimore on New Orleans and relate it to the "passionate" traits of those players. The reality is that New Orleans and Baltimore are competitive not because Ray Lewis and Drew Brees are passionate, but because Ray Lewis and Drew Brees are Ray Lewis and Drew Brees (in other words, they are very good players that produce, thus increasing their chances of winning). Additionally, how does a fan know if a team has a passionate leader or not? Since we are not part of the organization we would only know by what was told to us via the radio, newspaper, TV, internet. So we would only know about said leaders if the media chose to cover that story. This is obviously flawed because perhaps ESPN 30 for 30 has been wanting to do a story on the passionate locker room presence of Mitch Petrus, but there have just been too many better stories to run. That's a ridiculous example, I know, but it examplifies that we as fans are reliant on the media to portray players as leaders and thus are unable to truly know the extent of someone's so called "passionate leadership." There could be several on and off-field leaders and we don't know about it. CDN you always have had great comments in this ocean of garbage that is the New York Giants message board and I like the thought you put into this. Nevertheless, I must respectfully disagree that a passionate on/off field leader is what we are missing. I feel like such a desire, which most fans including myself share is a product of frsutration, not a knowledge that it would produce a championship run. With all of that said I will finally answer your question as to what the one piece we are missing is: A pro-bowl linebacker. If we had that, a lot of our problems would be solved.</P>


Posts like this are why you have been missed on these boards Providence . . . . </P>